Parliament raises the alarm over the abuse of Traffic Register Numbers (TRNs)

[00:00:00]The Portfolio Committee on Transport and the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs have sounded the alarm on what they call the abuse of the traffic register numbers. So, you're probably asking yourself, what is this number and how important it is if you doesn't if you don't know it. Let's get you some answers now. Donald Selamolela is the chairperson of the Transport Portfolio Committee and joins us live now. Good evening to you, Mr. Selamolela. Thanks so much for your time. So, for someone who is not aware, what is a traffic register number?

[00:00:30]>> Evening, evening, Abongile, and evening to evening to the viewers at home and a very great South African night.

[00:00:37]Abongile, the this issue of T traffic registration number, which has caused so much storm in the country. The traffic registration number is the number that we give to people of foreign nationality who otherwise do not necessarily have IDs when ID numbers in the country when they arrive in the country for the purpose of interfacing with our NATIS system. You would know that when you're a South African citizen or you have a South African ID, when you interface with the NATIS system, which is our transport system that manages all the licensing, registration of cars, and so forth, you then use your ID to interface with that system. But, at a point when you do not have an ID, like you're a foreign national who's just coming with a visa, you're coming here to be here maybe for four four four months, six months, you have to have the South African driving license so that you can drive on our road or you need to apply to register buy a car here and register it on the NATIS system. You then you apply to our RTMC so that they can put you on the NATIS system through that particular number. So, they allocate you that particular number. It becomes your ID.

[00:01:52]It It works as if it's an ID.

[00:01:55]>> So, how then is it being abused?

[00:02:00]>> So, the initially [clears throat] the intention of this like I alluded what was it meant for. So, when when when the regulation 335 was passed was to ensure that these people who otherwise would not be able to be integrated on the inner city system are afforded opportunity to be on the inner city system. Then what then happened is that these people one is that they then duplicate this number.

[00:02:25]Other people then use this number for other purposes outside the intended purpose. Now, you find that one ID number one one TRN number is used by three or four people. Then in that situation it then becomes an element of criminality because you can then have a car being registered which Donald does not necessarily own this car, but his TRN number is then used to register a car which is the first problem. The second problem is that you then have a situation where people now because this number is like an ID they open business account, they open a bank account, and so forth and and so on. And when they do not honor those accounts, you are then unable to actually trace them down as to who are these particular people because they would have duplicated, they would have done other things outside the actual prescription of this particular number.

[00:03:22]>> Sure, and I see that in some of the instances luxury vehicles are also you know being purchased here etc. So, it doesn't sound like a work of a syndicate.

[00:03:36]>> We we we and and I would have said other time that the manner in which for instance the duplication has happened so fast. First, secondly the manner in which it is used to buy luxury vehicles in a particular coordinated manner. And with what the SIU has been revealing in this country, whether through various processes that they recently you have seen the bus that they had on home affairs officials and so forth. With all this, you can't rule out the possibility that we are dealing with a possible syndicate in this regard.

[00:04:09]>> And quite disturbing because when one reads your statement for example, saying that the committee has heard that within 20 minutes of being issued at Barclay West office, the TRNs were duplicated in Cape Town using one phone number to register numerous other TRNs. What about the system is making it so susceptible to this?

[00:04:33]>> Uh well, the the the the the point that we actually raised very strongly, which is of concern to us, is our systems are not integrated speaking to each other. And part of the investigation and revelation we're able to get is that when you interface for say for instance with inner city system, with the South African ID or so forth, there are biometric and verification process that they get subjected to. But it has not been that element has not been integrated in as far as transport system is concerned, which is then a problem. Therefore, it's a it's a cause for concern and that is why we we are very That's why you see the frustration and anger we expressed in our statement to say we cannot have this type of a situation. Something has to be done.

[00:05:21]Something ought to give. And for us to achieve that, surely what we then have to do is that we implored on the department that within a short space of time in two weeks time, they need to come back to us, both home affairs, RTMC, transport, all involved, to come to us and say, "This is where we are and these are the type of intervention we're going to make." First and foremost, the first thing that they must do is to ensure that the very cases system speaks to the home affairs system. We can't afford a situation where you have ID numbers because this TRN are actual ID number are issued and there is no thorough clinical verification system that speaks to all the system.

[00:06:02]>> I hear the fact that you're saying this is what they must do now, but who takes responsibility for what one can describe as a mess effectively?

[00:06:14]>> It is a mess and all involved must take a collective responsibility and we have not tried to make it clear. This is what This is the instruction we've given.

[00:06:23]One, the first instruction is that go and investigate. Where possible, cancel all the TRNs that are currently existing that have this particular problem that we are able to link with this particular problem. Secondly related to that, we need to know how many TRNs are in operation in this country at this particular point. So that we do not have When you ask me Yeboah, I should be able to tell you we have 300 people who are using TRNs in this country. To the extent that we must also know what is it that they use them for, whether it's for license, whether it's for cars, whether it's for boats and so forth and so on.

[00:07:05]Thirdly, we want to know what is then going to happen to those who duplicated or those whose TRNs has been used for this particular purpose. And that must include the penalty necessary penalties including withdrawal of those TRNs. The The must We must reach a stage where we should be able to know of these duplicates, how many were used to open bank account because that information can be easily traced and easily accessible. We should be able to know how many have used to register luxurious car so that we can be able to trace and follow that. But over and above, the last thing that needs to happen is that we need to know that we are stopping the mess, and we are stopping the mess yesterday before breakfast.

[00:07:52]>> So, I know you're you're talking about the the the the things that you want to happen, but there's something I don't hear.

[00:08:00]Internally, from a you know, departmental perspective with the entities you've listed, are you also looking to see if there's there could be people or or or or or someone that could be enabling this from within the departments?

[00:08:18]>> Like I said, because we are we can't rule out the possibility of working with this with this syndicate here. The the syndicate obviously will have internal enablers. That is why a thorough investigation has to happen first within the internal within the entities themselves. They must be able to tell us TRNs that are issued in Cape Town or TRNs that are issued in in in Gauteng in Waterfall or TRNs that are issued elsewhere in the country. There is the problem. We think this is the source. And it must start first with the entities of transport before we can even involve Home Affairs. Our own entities must take accountability and responsibility for the mess. Uh and and I think they have accepted that there's already a process in place in this particular guard, which will then be able to feed into this a particular expected report that I'm speaking about.

[00:09:14]>> When does it come before you?

[00:09:18]>> We have given them a from we met them a week ago. We have given them 2 weeks to make this particular investigations.

[00:09:24]We'll be hearing from them probably next week Friday to get an update as to how far they are with all these requests that we have made. We had given deliberately given it 2 weeks precisely because this is a very sensitive matter. It is not just a matter of crime. It is also a national security issue. Therefore, you cannot, when you pick it, leave it unattended.

[00:09:46]But when I speak to the authorities as of yesterday, I was assured that the great work is being done in this particular regard.

[00:09:54]>> All right. Hopefully we get to speak to you then after you get that report to see if you're satisfied with what you're being told. But appreciate your time.

[00:10:02]Thank you for speaking to us. Donald Selamolela is the chairperson of the transport portfolio committee.