Thomas Massie Crashes Out; What to Know About Trump's "Weaponization Fund", & More | RCPod

Added: 2026-05-21

[00:00:04]Welcome to Real Clear Politics on SiriusXM for Wednesday, May 20th. I'm Andrew Walworth and joining me are RCP president and co-founder Tom Beavenon and Washington Bureau Chief Carl Cannon.

[00:00:18]Uh so last night was a pretty big primary night. Of course, the title fight was the battle in Kucky's fourth district where House member Thomas Massie went down to defeat against challenger Ed Gallerin. This uh will likely end Massiey's 14-year career in the House. And Massie has some choice words in his concession speech. Here's just some of what he had to say as he prepares for his next chapter.

[00:00:43]>> I'm not even sure that I'm bipartisan.

[00:00:45]By means you like both.

[00:00:48]I might be transpartisan.

[00:00:52]cuz I can't identify with either some days. Would I would have come out sooner, but I had to call my opponent and concede and it took a while to find Ed Galrine in Tel Aviv.

[00:01:04]>> Not Not the most gracious concession speech, I guess.

[00:01:07]>> You think? Jeeez, what a what a just a classless move. I mean, come on. That was ridiculous. I think it shows I mean, you really do.

[00:01:19]You you learn a lot about people when they're when they're in these moments of of defeat or crisis and how they carry themselves and you know you know do they do they blame other people? Do they lash out? Are they are they gracious? Are they not? And I think Thomas Massie just sort of exposed himself with that one comment uh of being uh just just not not a very upright gentleman.

[00:01:46]>> Yeah. It wasn't even close. It was 54.

[00:01:49]Uh oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Carl.

[00:01:50]>> Well, you know, Andy, I I I want to add something to that because I was >> I was I can see too charitable towards Thomas Massie yesterday on our show when >> when I had said that, you know, he's idiosyncratic and and odd, but but that he had taken all these principled stands in his career. There was nothing principled about his behavior yesterday.

[00:02:11]He he he turns out to be as as Tom point not just a cla classless loser but but um a cheap shot artist and a jubader. I mean he's he's the he's the worst kind it's the worst example of our politics.

[00:02:24]Here's a guy who sets him up so I don't you know I'm too good for either party.

[00:02:28]He's not good enough for either party.

[00:02:30]And and I I it was it was really kind of appalling that behavior. Um Ed Grin is a Navy Seal. Thomas Massie never wore the uniform of this country. Um to that that little dig at Israel at at Galrine's expense. Uh I don't or maybe a dig at Galrine at Israel's expense, how you want to frame it, but it re it reminded me, you know, 200 years ago when people talk like that in Congress there, somebody would challenge them to a duel.

[00:02:59]And I never thought that I would long for the day we we had duels until last night when I heard Tom Massie Thomas Massie uh insult, you know, be be so so ungracious.

[00:03:12]I Yeah, I was sort of struck by I mean that's the kind of rhetoric that is allowed now. I mean, it sort of it just calls you. I mean, it's it's it's a blatantly anti-semitic remark that he made uh when he knows he's in the national spotlight. I mean, that he knows that that speech is going to be a >> a big deal and this is what he chose cho chooses to do with it. Um Tom, at the end of the day, it wasn't really even close. It was 54 to 45%. Um so, a big victory for the president, I guess. Um and really, you know, they call this a revenge tour. I've been thinking about this. It's not with with him. It's not really just a revenge tour. I mean, he he really was someone who voted against the president. And looking forward, I think Carl was talking about this yesterday. Uh looking forward, um they're going to need every vote. And if they can't count on his vote, maybe it's worth 17 18 million to uh to get rid of him. I don't know. But in some there is a reliable reliable >> vote. Here's how unreliable it was.

[00:04:14]There was a a vote a few years ago to give Jack Nicholas, the golfer who's this gracious guy, he's done so much for golf, probably the greatest golfer in history, a congressional gold medal, and Massie voted against it. He was like, you know, one of >> now we don't like Carl.

[00:04:30]>> Eight or nine people rethinking. Yeah.

[00:04:33]>> Yeah. And you know, but again, he said, you know, libertarian, we shouldn't spend money on that. No, you're you're just you're just an attention [ __ ] That's what you are, >> Tom. It it was not close. But look, I I do think this race, I mean, I was watching some of the the back and forth online about it. And you had, you know, you had the folks on the left, the progressive left, excuse me, Jenkuger, whatever his name is, was like, "Oh, this this proves that, you know, the Republican party is a wholly owned subsidiary of of Israel." And, you know, Hassan [ __ ] same thing, >> right? but also some some other folks on the on the right and Massie did win young voters in that district pretty overwhelmingly. There was a pretty substant Now they don't turn out as much as older voters and >> and I think uh >> thank God.

[00:05:24]>> Well, I think it it does >> I have to say that before Carolina comes on. She's a young voter.

[00:05:31]it does point to this rift that exists within the Republican party >> uh over the issue of Israel and you know again you can simplify this into well any criticism of Israel is is out of bounds that's what some people are you know but but I think there is a there is space to be able to criticize um Israel without resorting to as Carl would call it jub baiting or anti-semitism um but some of that gets lost in in some of the heat online and some of the, you know, the accusations that are flying back and forth. So, >> Tom, this guy voted against a this [ __ ] voted against a congressional resolution condemning anti-semitism.

[00:06:14]>> I'm not suggesting that Thomas Massie isn't wasn't trafficking that stuff. I think he was. And I think his comment last night in that speech, which was just so out of bounds and unnecessary, proves that that's that's kind of where his headspace is at. So, but I'm I'm just trying to illuminate that this was indicative of a broader fight that's going on within the Republican party.

[00:06:33]It's not, you know, that that I think we we should talk about and pay attention to.

[00:06:38]>> Yeah. Well, um Apac did put well in the Jewish lobby put a lot of money into this race. Ape said this about uh their endorsement for Galerin. Uh pro-Israel Americans are proud to back candidates who support a strong USIsrael alliance and help defeat those who work to undermine it. being pro- Israel is good policy and good politics. And uh Carl, they went on, they've called Massie the most anti-Israel Republican in the House. So, a a good night for the president and I guess a good night for Apac as well.

[00:07:11]>> Well, yeah. And and but but this idea uh that that Netanyahu, BB Netanyahu, you know, tricked Trump into going to war, that that goes around in the in the wings of both party among young people of all descriptions. I mean, that's it's not exactly how it works. You know, that any more than Dick Cheney led us into war, the president of the United States is the commander-in-chief and he makes these decisions. And but that doesn't mean the war in Iran is popular. And and you know, a lot of different ideas are conflated here. You you you don't have to be an isolationist to think that this was a step too far. And and but but I you know, but this guy wants to he wants to mix up all those issues and so do other people. But it thinking what you just said, that statement, I don't know if being pro-Israel is any more good politics, but it certainly seems like it's good policy for the United States.

[00:07:59]This is the only democracy in the region, staunch ally of the United States, country that reflects our values and is willing to fight on our side. So I I don't have any trouble making the argument um for a strong alliance with Israel. But but where the argument delves into policy differences between people of good faith is whether is whether this Iran this war in Iran makes makes sense or not.

[00:08:24]>> I mean the Apac stuff is interesting because you know you had you know who was it Corey Bush Democrat running you know progress. She was one of the squad and she was out there railing against Apac and and um Jamal Bowman up in New York. Same thing. And they're just, you know, railing against that.

[00:08:43]>> Well, this is years long before the war in Iran.

[00:08:46]>> Yeah. I mean, it was a couple years ago.

[00:08:48]It was certainly predated the the war in Iran, but now you've got Apac coming into Republican primaries and play. I mean, I do think it it I understand why they do it. Uh it probably it probably might even be counterproductive because it it lends some you know it sort of lends some credence to the idea that they've you know they're spending millions and millions of dollars to try and you know help the candidates that they want. Now that happens all across the country but with Apac it certainly comes at a at a public relations price I think.

[00:09:22]>> Yeah. Well, um, let's talk about, uh, Trump, uh, in Texas, uh, because he's really emboldened these days. He finally got around. He's endorsed Ken Paxton in the Senate, uh, runoff against, uh, the incumbent John Cornin. U as Tom predicted.

[00:09:39]>> Yeah, Paxton is the Texas Attorney General. He's a he's a problematic candidate. Um, and the winner of the GOP runoff will face James Terico in the fall. So, here is the president. uh I think this was this morning talking about how he sees the race shaping up.

[00:09:57]>> We have uh a great candidate I believe in Texas and I believe the Texas candidate who's Ken Paxton. I think he'll win. I think probably he'll win very substantially. And I think he'll go on to defeat a very defective candidate, a candidate that believes in six genders. And he he takes hits at Jesus Christ. And he's wearing a mask 6 months ago, wears a guy. Anybody wearing a mask 6 months ago doesn't get it. And he's a vegan. He's a vegan in Texas. And you can't get elected as a vegan in Texas.

[00:10:33]>> He might be right about that last one.

[00:10:36]That's pretty good trolling there, right? Um, what do you make of the endorsement, Tom?

[00:10:42]>> Well, you remember when this first happened and it went to a runoff that Trump had said there was this reporting that he had offered John Cornin a deal, right? That if he would get get behind the Save America Act that Trump would trade that for his endorsement. And it didn't happen. And now Trump, look, this this to me is, if you look at the polling, it seems like Ken Paxton was going to win this anyway.

[00:11:08]>> And and so Trump is is sort of hopping on board the Paxton train here. I I don't think he's necessarily, you know, driving the train. I think he's he's more in the caboose.

[00:11:19]I know Trump's gonna love If he listens to this podcast, I get ready for a true social about what a pathetic loser I am.

[00:11:26]>> Low IQ. Yeah, low IQ.

[00:11:30]But look, Trump likes to be associated with winners. I think Ken Paxton has has the upper hand in this race. It's he he is the one who the MAGA base wants and and supports despite the fact that he is somewhat problematic. Um, but if you look at the general election polling, I mean, both Paxton and Cornin are right.

[00:11:47]They're pretty similar. I mean, it's there's not a whole lot of difference between either one of those guys against Terico. It's it's going to be, according to the polls right now, it'll be a close race with either of them. And and I think Trump's right about the part of of Taler Rico being a sort of problematic defective candidate. I mean, he might have in the end have more baggage than than Paxton does on the Republican side.

[00:12:07]So, it's going to be I I think Paxton will win this thing. I think it will be Pax and Ter Rico. A lot of money is going to be spent there. I think that race will be close and it could end up being one of the one of the if not the decisive race on whether Democrats can take back the the Senate or not. Um, so Carl, that does raise the question because, you know, Paxton's got a lot of problems. Uh, and, um, he's, you know, we had an incumbent, Republicans had an incumbent, uh, senator. Um, I think in the general, the general feeling that I, at least from what I've read, is that, uh, that, uh, Cornin might have been the better candidate. Uh, so to Tom's point, Trump may be get on the caboose here.

[00:12:50]Uh, but come se come November, he may there's a chance that he'll regret this, I suppose. Right.

[00:12:56]>> Well, I I agree with everything you said. Tom Tom's pointing out these polls. I I think Cornin will be a much better general election candidate, John Cornin, than Ken Paxton, what you just said, Andy. But Tom's pointing out that the polls don't really show that these mock matchups. It's close either way.

[00:13:12]But I think in the fullness of a campaign, I've covered all these campaigns. Campaign develops a dynamic.

[00:13:17]And I think over time Cornin would have got more independent voters than Paxton's going to get. Significantly more. The question is uh would hemorrhage mega supporters and would they make up for it? So it's it's unknowable.

[00:13:32]>> What if the president endorsed him?

[00:13:34]>> Well, yeah, but I'm I'm I'm getting into a different point that you made, Andy.

[00:13:39]>> Tom says Trump Trump got on board on this train late that Paxton was going to win the primary anyway. But I think now that he's endorsed Paxton, if Paxton loses to Taller Rico, Trump will be blamed.

[00:13:51]>> Trump will point out the Democrats and the media will say Trump picked this guy. You had you had a guy a member of the highly respected member of the Senate who was in the Senate leadership who got along with both parties, you know, who was a perfect fit for Texas and Trump um threw him over for a guy who's more personally loyal and this is on Trump. So that that's the that's to me the danger here, Tom, for the president.

[00:14:16]>> Um, so Politico has a has a piece out and it's got a phrase I liked. It was called uh the yolo Republicans. Uh, these are the Republicans who have been uh or either retiring or they're being retired. They've had their political careers ended by Trump. Uh but this is a sort of a growing contingent in the Senate especially of uh politicians who just must be pissed off. Uh so you know you've got some you know >> Tom Tillis, >> Lisa Macowski, Susan Collins, you have those people. Then you have Tom Tillis.

[00:14:52]Now you've got Cassidy of Louisiana. Now you're going to add uh uh corn into that. I mean this is this is getting to be a kind of a caucus of people. I think those that term yolo Republicans is about right. I mean, at some point, um Tom, you know, you're looking at things like the ballroom, you're looking at things like this, the War Powers Act. I mean, is there going to be a growing contingent of Republicans in the next seven months who uh not only don't owe anything to Trump, but would certainly like to stick it to him?

[00:15:25]>> Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, there's it's possible that that some of these guys are are going to hold grudges and and or be freed up from any concern, you know, party loyalty concerns. Uh, you know, theoretically, you'd think they're still Republicans. They still want the best for the Republican party, so they're going to they're going to vote their conscience on uh what they think is best for the party. Um, but yeah, could it could lead to some conflicts with Trump, but I mean, look, this has been going on, you know, you go back, Ben Sass, Jeff Flake, I mean, all these guys that Trump has run out of town, uh, and he still plows ahead. The only difference is obviously he's only got six months before he is going to be a lame duck if he isn't already. And Republicans are fighting to hold on to the House and the Senate. And it's, you know, if if they don't, um, it's going to make the next two years much much more difficult for for the president and the party in general.

[00:16:26]There'll be, you know, oversight and all sorts of, um, all sorts of stuff like that. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch and see what these guys do over the next six months.

[00:16:34]>> Did you notice, Andy, though, he Trump uncharacteristically praised Cornin? was pretty faint, but he said he's a good man and is and you know he's prefers Paxton, but >> that is not going to carry a lot of weight. John G.

[00:16:46]>> No, no, but he doesn't always do that is what I'm saying when he he certainly didn't do it for Thomas Massie.

[00:16:52]>> That that's or or Senator Cassidy.

[00:16:54]>> Yeah. Um let's talk about the Democrats.

[00:16:57]Uh there's new squad member it looks likely. This we talked about him yesterday. This is the Democratic Socialist Chris Rob. Uh he won 44% up in uh in Philadelphia I guess. Um that's the bluest district in the country they say. So he's likely coming into the house. Um so um Tom, anything else happened interesting on the Democratic side? I mean there were there were a bunch of House races in uh Pennsylvania that people were watching.

[00:17:26]>> Yeah. And you know the these Dems have have elected the people that they think like on one hand they elect this again now card carrying socialist who tells the billionaires he's coming after them.

[00:17:36]Uh you know we talked about that yesterday. But on the other hand they you know they elected a guy like Brooks I think his name is who's you know like a like a labor skate guy you know workingass guy. And so they're they're trying to >> he drive he drives a snow plow on the side.

[00:17:52]>> Yeah he drives a snowplow on the side.

[00:17:54]That's right. He's just I mean and this guy actually unlike Tim Walls who was like I'm gonna go work on my truck. This guy actually I think does he knows how to how to work on a truck.

[00:18:06]Um so yeah look I mean it shows the Democrats are still uh sensitive to the concerns and the and the constituencies of the district and they're trying to you know it hasn't I mean obviously the party overall has moved to the left.

[00:18:21]That's sort of, you know, I think that's goes without saying almost, but in these in these, you know, certain circumstances and instances, they're trying to and they are trying to win bla win back the working class. They see an opportunity. This is a group that Trump really resonated with, particularly in 2024, on economic issues. And now Democrats have the upper hand on economic issues. It's a it's an uphill slog for Republicans and they are trying to uh where they can find candidates who can really make that connection and and so I guess that's the good news if you're a Democrat. They haven't gone completely, you know, nuts in some of these swing districts, >> Carl.

[00:19:02]>> Well, um the Are we going to talk about Georgia yet? Is it time to turn our Georgia? Yeah.

[00:19:08]>> Well, there the the they had the Cong the race the governor's race, Senate race, there the primaries.

[00:19:15]John um Osaf to me is the most vulnerable Democratic incumbent in the country. I think the RNC thinks that. I think we think that. Um and he's so we don't know who his opponent is going to be yet, but these but we know that the they didn't get a 50%. So the Republicans are beating the living crap out of each other for another several weeks. But the mo the thing that I was watching in Georgia was the Supreme Court races. In each case, you had an incumbent ju judge, a justice appointed very not a mega person, but a conservative and a Republican appointed by uh was it I think the current governor I think Kemp appointed maybe Nathan Deal appointed one of them, but they're they're Republicans and the Democrats got some trial lawyer types to go after them. Um two candidates heavily funded. I think they spent more than a million each and they came up short. And so it shows you that Georgia is still, you know, maybe the purplest of the purple states and all things being equal, slightly leans Republican.

[00:20:14]>> And so, you know, if if the Republicans can get their act together there and coales around >> uh candid candidate Trump's endorsed or uh self-funded billionaire, um you know, John OAF is that's that's a place where Republicans, if they're interested in holding the Senate, ought to spend some time and money and get their act together. Yeah. Um, >> and they did they did nominate Democrats nominated Kesha Lance Bottoms, the former mayor of Atlanta, to be their gubernatorial nominee, and she won over 50%. So, she's she's it. So, she gets to stand by whether Republicans, you know, the Republican side, as Carl said, get to beat the crap out of each other for another few weeks. So, that's going to be a really interesting race. Um, and I, you know, she's a fairly well-known figure in in at least the sort of Atlanta metro area, which is where she's going to get obviously a majority of her her votes.

[00:21:07]>> Yeah. Well, I want to talk about someone that I had never heard of before, and that's Meen Galindo. Um, she is Democratic congressional candidate in Texas 35th district, and she's going to a runoff. Um, and the the internet kind of blew up over this. She said on Instagram this, she's writing about herself in the third person. She said, uh, she will turn K's ICE detention center, must be a detention center in Texas, into a prison for American Zionists and former ICE officer officers for human trafficking. And then she added, it will also be a castration processing center for pedophiles, which will probably be most of the Zionists.

[00:21:51]And then uh she doubled down. This is what she uh said uh I think maybe this morning. Listen to this.

[00:21:57]>> So like I don't care what religion you are. If you are a Zionist, meaning that you believe that you are just entitled to land or someone's just entitled to land um based off of religious beliefs and that you'll kill all of the Semites for it, then yeah, I think that you're a danger to humanity and belong in prison.

[00:22:18]Um, so Tom, so she believes the United States recognized Israel in 1948, they were the first major power. Russia did it right away, right after the Soviet Union did it after us. Uh, so after the Holocaust when all these Jews were murdered in Europe, um, and the Jews needed a homeland to protect themselves, they have this tiny little country in a sea of Arab countries, hund, you know, tiniest country in the region. She doesn't think they should even have that country. And if you do believe that they should have that country, in other words, if you believe in American foreign policy since 1948, you should be in prison and maybe castrated. The punchline is guess what her profession is, Andy?

[00:23:03]>> I have no idea.

[00:23:04]>> She's She's a sex therapist.

[00:23:07]>> What does that mean?

[00:23:08]>> She's a sex therapist. You go to her for sex problems. Now, now her solution, I guess, is castration.

[00:23:14]if she disagrees with you politically.

[00:23:16]So, I I would someone should write the Texas Medical Board >> and and see if there I don't know. Look up lawsuits or complaints. I I'm not making that up. That's what they're new age sex therapist. That's what >> Well, she she got the most votes in this primary.

[00:23:33]>> She was the top vote getter. She got 9%.

[00:23:35]>> I will say AOC is uh come out against her. She said this is absolutely disgusting. This is AOC on X. This bigoted garbage and anti-semitism should be nowhere near our politics. So that was that was AOCC's take on it.

[00:23:49]>> If you gross out AOC from the left, you you've made some effort.

[00:23:54]>> Well, let me just say this this woman seems like uh she seems mentally not right. I mean, she you know, the video that you or the audio that you just played, Andy, there's a video that if you're watching YouTube, you will have seen it. She's wearing these like big pink sunglasses. I mean, she just seems like she is mentally ill. Um, and you have to believe to make a statement like that that you are, you know, you have a very distorted worldview. Now, the good news is that as you mentioned, AOC and a bunch of other Democrats came out right away and and condemn the statement. So, bravo for them on that. The the the part of it though, it's easy to condemn some, you know, no-name, you know, candidate for like the Texas House or Texas Senate, uh, you know, one day story. It's less easy to condemn the same kinds of language, maybe not as extreme, that comes from Hassan [ __ ] who all these Democrats around the country are campaigning with, who has, you know, said a bunch of crazy uh anti-Semitic [ __ ] over the years, and no Democrat seems to want to condemn him at all. So there seems to be a you know I'll give them some credit but not because this is I mean obviously this is so far >> uh so beyond the pale it's it's it should be condemned and it's easy to be condemned by anybody but you know I'd like to see Democrats do a little more of that >> hey we've got about a minute left Tom and you have a piece on the front page today I just want to make sure we get to it that's uh it's sort of a cautionary notice to Democrats about candidate quality uh in Michigan in particular But uh what's your brief?

[00:25:36]>> Well, I mean that's a perfect example.

[00:25:38]Elsa's leading in the latest polls by 10 points over Mallalerie McMaro and Haley Stevens. And he's a guy who campaigned with Hassan [ __ ] and didn't condemn him and has embraced him. And so he could be uh you know, if he wins the primary in August, he could be their candidate. And it could be this for Senate for Michigan. It could be a repeat of 2010.

[00:25:59]I I draw the analogy where great Republican year they picked up six Senate seats, but they fell a couple short of winning back the majority because they nominated Christine O'Donnell. She dropped out of the race.

[00:26:08]Sharon Angel lost to Harry Reid. Uh because they nominated candidates that were just too problematic to win in a general election, even in a good year for their party.

[00:26:16]>> You mean candidates like Ken Paxton?

[00:26:18]>> Yeah, maybe.

[00:26:19]>> Yeah, possibly.

[00:26:20]>> Well, sh Carl, if Ken Paxton is is problematic in Texas, I mean, Elsa's problematic in Michigan, so maybe they'll cancel each other out.

[00:26:27]>> Yeah. Well, I will say though, I think that if Ken Paxton loses in Texas, that that will mean that they're losing the Senate. Doesn't >> I I would probably agree with that.

[00:26:36]>> Yeah.

[00:26:38]>> If Taller Rico wins, if the vegan wins in Texas, it's, you know, Katie bar the door.

[00:26:42]>> Well, that that that woman who hated country music from Nashville did not win. So, >> I remember special day today. We are joined now by Carolina Lumea. She is the brand new RCP White House correspondent, veteran reporter. We're happy to have her making her very first appearance on the radio show today. So, Carolina, first of program.

[00:27:05]>> Carolina, welcome.

[00:27:06]>> Hi. Thanks for having me.

[00:27:08]>> It's great to have you here. So, uh, let's start, uh, with what happened in the White House press briefing yesterday. Uh, Vice President JD Vance took over the podium. That's because Caroline Levit is out on maternity leave. Uh so let's start by listening with uh to some of what he had to say to reporters. Listen to this.

[00:27:28]>> There are different ways to ask a question. Okay? You can just ask a question, try to get your answer. Or you could do like a speech where you say, you know, Mr. Vice President, every you know, you're you're a terrible human being and so is the president, so is the entire cabinet. And then I'm like, what's your question? And then your question is, how dare you? Come on, man.

[00:27:47]have a little bit of objectivity in the way that you ask these questions because there were a lot of things in that speech masquerading as a question that didn't actually get asked. Regardless of what direction the president ultimately goes down, whatever he ultimately decides, I think it's important for the American people to know two things.

[00:28:03]Number one, it will be for their security and their prosperity. That's why we're doing this. And number two, it will not this is not going to be the sort of thing that lasts forever. I think a lot of Americans, especially in my generation, who are worried about forever endless conflicts, we have to remember, I think you said 11 weeks, a big chunk of that has been a ceasefire.

[00:28:23]This is not a forever war. We're going to take care of business and come home.

[00:28:26]That's what the president's promised and that's exactly what he's going to deliver.

[00:28:30]>> So, uh, Carolina, what did you make of the vice president there? He was, uh, little little churish with the press, but he also gave an answer substantive answer there. So, what do you make of it?

[00:28:43]>> Yeah. Well, he's part of the rotating cast of cabinet members that we're going to have giving the briefings while Caroline Levit is out. And he really has to handle with a lot of Iran questions for the vast majority of the briefing.

[00:28:56]Um, and this he gave pretty much the same answer just rewarded 50 times over.

[00:29:02]Um, he took questions for almost an hour, so that was great. We love when that happens. Um, he didn't call on me, so he loses points for that. And uh yeah, he he handled the press well.

[00:29:14]Everyone is kind of comparing him to Marco Rubio a couple weeks ago who also gave a briefing. He seemed a little more comfortable being up there. Um he wasn't quite owning the press, but he was sticking to the administration's lines.

[00:29:28]Vance tends to be a little more combative with the media, and you saw that come out as well. Well, Carolina, one of the things that it sounded like that because I saw the clip. I I think it was a reporter from the Independent who who this is what JD Vance was responding to in the first part of that clip because he gave this like I don't know one minute windup to the question.

[00:29:52]Vance even said while he was asking that's a hell of a question. Um, and so there was a little bit of back and forth on that, but the question I believe was about the fund that has been established by the Department of Justice. Um, what what did Vance say about that? How did he answer that question?

[00:30:13]>> Yeah. So, well, the question from the independent was about the Trump family stocks.

[00:30:19]>> Oh, that's right.

[00:30:20]>> I will say a lot of us kind of lost the thread of what the question was about by the time it was asked. So, I could be wrong there. Um, but yeah, a lot of reporters also had questions about this a weaponization fund that the DOJ just released as part of a settlement with the IRS. The IRS had or the Trump family has agreed to drop its lawsuits and extra claims against the IRS in exchange for this $1.8 billion, I believe. Some check >> 1.766.

[00:30:50]It's a It's Yeah, he's trying to be funny there. It's like thought it was 1.7767.

[00:30:58]Yeah, that's right.

[00:30:59]>> Yeah.

[00:31:00]>> So, this is supposed to be a fund that will be open to anyone who believes that the Biden administration specifically weaponized the justice system against them. Um, Vance made it clear yesterday that the Trump family is not taking part of these funds, but anybody can apply.

[00:31:19]They'll be determined on a case-by case basis and then they'll get a slice of the pie. After the briefing, we then got another announcement that the IRS has promised to forever, it is forever banned and precluded from auditing any member of the Trump family also as part of the settlement. So, there's a lot going on with the Trump family's finances.

[00:31:40]>> How is that even possible? That doesn't sound like >> it's a it's a pardon in the future in future wrongdoing and obviously not not enforceable. But what Andy, what have you ever heard of anything like this? Uh Trump's Trump sues the government. Trump is the government. Then Trump's the government settles with Trump or Trump settles with the government. It it's it's it makes insider trading look um like jaywalking.

[00:32:06]the pro but the problem for Democrats if they're being honest is that there were already they didn't call it a fund but there was already money for this kind of purpose. Um the guy who uh Steven Hatfields was his name the guy that Nicholas Kristoff uh with with help from Bob Mueller and James Comey falsely accused of the anthrax attack was given I think I don't know seven or eight million dollars. a third of it went to his lawyer, but that came out of taxpayers money. Andrew McCabe and these other people uh who perpetuated um well who were who were fired in his case for lying. Uh they they got >> Say it, Carl. Just say it. I know you want to.

[00:32:53]>> They they got they got >> Russia hoax.

[00:32:58]>> I'm trying. Caroline is with us and you know she's she unlike you two guys, she's objective. I'm objective. I'm trying to keep I'm trying to protect her from ourselves. Um >> well, I will say that is a really interesting element though because in the DOJ's announcement of this fund, their legal precedent is from the Obama administration.

[00:33:18]>> Right. Right.

[00:33:19]>> Where they released a lot of money for people who they said were victims of government racism.

[00:33:25]>> Yeah. So, it just is kind of an interesting, you know, the the Trump administration loves to banish whatever the Biden administration, the Obama administration did, and here they're pulling from that president.

[00:33:37]>> Yeah. The uh New Republic had a a piece on this um this morning that claiming that the IRS had this 25page brief that they gave the Department of Justice explaining exactly why Trump would lose this and uh and why they didn't want to settle uh and the DOJ sort of ignored it. But it seems to me, you know, even without seeing that document, but uh I don't see how it just, you know, how can they settle $1.776 billion dollars and they settle uh without, you know, and it's his DOJ.

[00:34:15]I mean, it's his attorney general. I mean, >> it's a separate it's a separate issue, too. He sues he sued the IRS because um an IRS employee who was later convicted and sentenced to prison, right, >> leaked um financial records of Trump.

[00:34:29]That was despicable that he sued them on nut grounds. The settlement goes into this whole other thing of you future scams by the Trump Organization and and this money for right >> J6ers. It it just seems like it's um well, most of it's irrelevant to what to what Trump's tort was. Um although >> the perpetual pardon is >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the part.

[00:34:53]>> Very relevant. Right.

[00:34:54]>> Yeah. Wasn't that wasn't that interesting? So I guess >> I guess the next thing when a Democrat's president, he will proactively pardon like his grandchildren. I mean I don't where where do we go from here? How how much further absurd can this get?

[00:35:10]Although Carolina, I I got to I I got to remind you. I got to be honest here.

[00:35:15]That lengthy question by that reporter while he was asking it, I was I I had a flashback to a question I asked George W. Bush about gay marriage, which I was trying to trick him into saying that he believed in gay marriage. It did not work, but at least it didn't work then.

[00:35:33]Um but tr but Bush kind of said you know you got a question canon you know he kind of but but JD Vance I mean this is now this is out there this is he has he said this publicly and I was wondering what the reporters in the room thought because it's advice editors give to reporters it's advice we give to ourselves you know don't make a speech ask a question how did it how did that how did his little lecture go over in the room >> um well far be it for me to criticize my fellow fellow press corps members. Um I think well like I said for the rest of us sitting there we were kind of struggling to also keep with the thread of what he was asking. Um, so I think everyone kind of understood, you know, sometimes a White House reporter's own worst enemy is themselves and you just get too wrapped up in all of the context around a question because you want a particular answer that you kind of forget to get to the actual question. I think in the room it was kind of obvious that he was talking for too long. Um, and there were some chuckles here and there and some uh, please get to the point. I when you hear everyone start yelling at Mr. Vice President, Mr. Vice President after I raised my hand, you can't hear me on the tape. I'm like, I have a real question. I >> have a real question.

[00:36:56]>> Well, I'm I'm almost certainly now going to make sure that we dig up Carl's question. Yes, >> because it'll be on tape somewhere. I want to see what this windup was, if it was >> five minutes long or what what the heck.

[00:37:07]hard to find in the presidential records because I once looked it up years ago, Tom, and and um >> the transcript Bush calls out a name, but it's not my name. That the transcript is wrong. I said, Chris, so you don't know it's me talking, but it's clear if you listen the question, it's me because I say, you know, Gavin Newsome, mayor of my hometown, San Francisco.

[00:37:28]>> God, even then you were like, >> I know even then he was he was boosting Newsome. But shouldn't it be shouldn't it be in the C-SPAN archives? It was televised then, right? Because Mccur was the one who started the >> Right.

[00:37:39]>> Yeah. I'll have to see if it >> We'll see if we can find any.

[00:37:42]>> It has to be if it was Bush, right?

[00:37:43]>> Carolina, you uh you were very diplomatic about your fellow press corps members and we appreciate that. But on this podcast, it's okay to bash the press if we sit in a room with them. So, >> Carolina, do not listen to to Andy. It is not okay for you to bash anyone. Tom can bash the press and I do occasionally. I do on a regular basis.

[00:38:05]>> Yeah, we don't need another press bash.

[00:38:07]We got that. We got that covered.

[00:38:09]>> All right. Well, Caroline, I want to ask you about another uh thing that happened, and that was Trump uh he spent an hour with reporters uh in front of the ballroom construction. This was an impromptu appearance, I guess. Um here's a little bit of what he said, and you can hear the construction is going on in the background. That's how you knew this thing wasn't planned out. Listen to this. When this is finished, my term ends shortly after that. This is really for other presidents. This is not for me. This is my gift to the United States of America. I'm going to be able to use it very little because when it's finished, we're talking about six or seven months, but it'll be used for hopefully hundreds of years for other presidents. And there will never be anything like this built again.

[00:38:55]So, uh, for some of us the news there was that he's not running for a third term. But, um, Caroline, what' you make of this event?

[00:39:06]>> Well, first of all, I was very disappointed that I was not scheduled for that pool day. Um, and >> tell tell them about your pool day, your first pool.

[00:39:14]>> So, yeah, I was in the pool on Sunday and we motorcated out to the president's golf course in Virginia. Um, and whenever that happens, you know, we're sitting in a van for a couple hours waiting for the president to exit the White House and then we sit in a windowless room in the tennis club and maybe get some food halfway through and then just go home. This time we were in the tennis club for maybe 30, 40 minutes, maybe an hour, and then they rush us all out to the vans as if we're missing the president. And then we sit in the vans for another two or three hours in the hot 90° sun. So, it was an adventure and for any future uh presidential breakfast events, I need the White House press court or the press office to know that I am going to do an investigation into breakfast sandwiches.

[00:40:00]I need the access there. Um, but yeah, yesterday he just said, "Hey, anybody in the pool, come on out." He fed them breakfast sandwiches and drinks and took questions for 45 minutes. And let me repeat, it's 90 degrees minimum in DC right now. So it was a long time and he wanted everyone to see the construction going on with this ballroom that he wants. The importance there is that the ballroom funding seems to be pretty stalled in the White House is making a request for funding for the Secret Service to build a secure bunker where the East Wing used to be. That needs congressional appropriations and if they want to get it through without Democrat votes, they need it in reconciliation.

[00:40:44]However, the Senate parliamentarian already cut all of that out. So now they're the Republicans are kind of scrambling to figure out where to pass that money. It's a huge priority for the president and he really wanted to emphasize that yesterday.

[00:40:57]>> The irony is like if if a Democrat wins in 2028, they're going to tear this thing down. Like whatever he's whatever I don't I don't think so, Tom. I I the you would have a big hole in the wall.

[00:41:11]You know, he took tore down the East Wing to build it. I Trump is doing some things in official Washington that will be easy to fix, like slapping his name on the Kennedy Center. Now, if Trump tears down the Kennedy Center, I guess it won't matter, but if the Kennedy Center is still there and his name's on, you take his name off and Caroline Kennedy won't want to be the first to do it, but this ballroom, the structural integrity of the White House, um I'm not sure.

[00:41:37]I've looked at the plans for the ark.

[00:41:39]You know, I the the arc to Trump, if you take it down, if he builds as big as he wants to take it, it'd be hard to take it down without jeopardizing the memorial bridge. You know, he he's doing things that I don't think are going to be easy to some of them.

[00:41:52]>> That does not matter, Carl. I promise you. I promise you that there Well, you've already seen people, you know, demanding this as a litmus test. I promise you during the Democratic primary debate for 2028 that they will all be standing on stage and the moderator will ask the question, show of hands, how many of you would commit to tearing down Trump's ballroom when if you're elected and they will all raise their hands. There's not a single one who will be up there who will not raise their hand for that.

[00:42:20]>> Gavin Newsome will.

[00:42:22]>> Please. He's already said I believe some of these guys have already said it and he might be one of them, but they're they're all going to do it and he's going to be at the front of the line.

[00:42:31]Well, uh, Caroline, one thing I was struck by, uh, in this impromptu, uh, press conference that he had, uh, was he talked about this ballroom as being sort of like a, um, I don't something that like out of James Bond, it was going to also like shield the uh, the the whole uh, city. It was going to be a drones on top. It was kind of a hospital in the basement. was going to. So, um I mean he was sort of justifying it not just on the basis of he needs a bigger ballroom so when when the king of England comes he can entertain him in the the way he should. It's um it's really gosh he's building a whole sort of epicenter for the government there. Uh and and he needs a billion dollars to do it.

[00:43:17]>> Yeah. I think the um the blueprints for this keep changing. I didn't see any sort of flat drone army roof in the last renderings. Um, but yeah, it keeps kind of getting bigger and better. It's the overall cost has skyrocketed, but president insists that this is going to be paid with t not no taxpayer money except for what he needs from the Secret Service, right?

[00:43:40]>> Um, it's a billion dollar ask, but actually only about 220 million of that is for ballroom security, but we don't really know what all that security entails.

[00:43:50]Is he going to get the billion dollars though? I mean, you know, in our first segment, we were talking about uh >> maybe the Justice Department can allocate a billion of the 1.776 to the ballroom and just, you know, one hand >> or maybe Elon Musk can just write a check.

[00:44:07]Well, my point is that you've got these yolo republicans u and uh >> war powers act and and the ballroom are two things which uh the president uh want one he wants to avoid and one he wants very much and uh you know >> if you're Cassidy if you're uh you know anyone who's just had his career like put up in flames by the president um maybe you're not so likely to fund for that fund that ballroom. What do you think?

[00:44:36]>> Yeah, I mean at the moment his problem is not the yolo Republicans, it's the Senate rules.

[00:44:42]>> So the fastest way to get this funded is through reconciliation. There's already a second reconciliation bill that the Senate is working through, but only to fund immigration and customs and border protection as the solution to the however many months long Democrat shutdown that we had.

[00:45:02]However, when you're passing reconciliation, any items in it have to follow very, very narrow parameters. And the person in charge of deciding what meets those rules is the Senate parliamentarian. She already took out the entire $1 billion um provision for the Secret Service because it has nothing to do with either the Judiciary Committee's authority or immigration. So, if Trump wants this, he is probably going to need a standalone bill. And that's when he's going to run into problems with not only the Democrats, but also the YOLO Republicans.

[00:45:36]>> But hasn't he already decided that the real solution here is just to fire the Senate parliamentarian?

[00:45:42]>> There are unverified reports that he did ask that and that um Senate Majority Leader Thoon said yesterday that he's not even entertaining that idea. Um, coincidentally or maybe not, that was the same day that Trump decided to endorse Paxton and he did not consult or inform the majority leader before doing so. He found out from Truth Social like the rest of us. So, there's not a lot of happy feelings between the White House and the Senate right now.

[00:46:13]>> Um, what about that? I mean, what is the president's mood right now? I mean, is he feeling sort of emboldened? He he's just back from China. I mean, there's so much going on. Um he's sort of, you know, eliminating his enemies within the Republican party or what he perceives as his enemies within the Republican party.

[00:46:34]Uh but, you know, you look at things like the sort of generic uh Democratic ratings in in the in the fall and Tom, the last one I saw was like New York was the New York Times was like 11% the Democrats had were up in the generic. I mean, um, Caroline, how does he feel about things right now?

[00:46:54]>> I mean, I think he's feeling like he just keeps racking up the winds. Um, >> I mean, he had a successful visit with China in especially in terms of photos and op-eds and he was even commenting before he boarded Air Force One today that um, Putin is visiting China right now, but Trump says he thinks he got a better welcoming ceremony. So, I mean, he he's feeling good. He had all almost I think actually all of the primary candidates that he endorsed over the past few weeks have won. Um he had a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act. Uh he's got yolo Republicans will only last until the end of the year. So there's not a lot standing in his way right now.

[00:47:39]>> Does the president ignore $5 gallon gas and a 37% job approval rating? But other than that, he's he's golden. There's there's that.

[00:47:49]>> But he said he's not really thinking about that too much.

[00:47:52]>> You know, I he he talked um this morning about the Iran war and he again used the analogy that drove Andy crazy. He he invoked Vietnam, Andy.

[00:48:03]>> He said this, you know, Vietnam went on for all these years and I've only been doing this 11 weeks and half of that's been a ceasefire. what what he he I know the point he's trying to make and and I would I would and Van Vance made it more >> there's our music uh >> okay let me just wrap it up here >> yeah you know he's saying that I haven't been at this long and don't and be a little more patient but as Tom pointed out he's the one who created this by saying it would be over in weeks but it doesn't sound like he's wanting to wrap it doesn't sound like he's >> ready to cut and run just All right, Carolina speaking of cutting and running. Thank you for being here.

[00:48:44]We have to cut and run.