No self to be no self, Tim Cliss Nonduality Meeting 6th May 2026

Ajouté : 2026-05-07

[00:00:18]Welcome everybody. Nice to see you all.

[00:00:21]Uh, I thought I'd just say thank you to Dalia and Olivier for such a wonderful weekend in Brussels at the weekend and everyone who came.

[00:00:41]I haven't got any more um live talks booked at the moment, but I'm hoping to book the Philadelphia in London in Hamstead.

[00:00:55]End of May, either end of May or end of June, somewhere about that.

[00:01:07]trying to make it not clash with other nonuality speakers if possible.

[00:01:22]So, I'll let you know about that.

[00:01:47]I think one of the most common misconceptions about this whole non-dual malarkey is that it's talking about something and It's not it's not talking about something.

[00:02:11]It's an attempt to talk about everything and nothing.

[00:02:21]And the really absurd paradoxical suggestion that everything and nothing are not two.

[00:02:35]I'm not I'm ne I'm I'm never sure. You can't be sure that anyone else who speaks about this that's what they mean.

[00:02:43]But there are you know there's there's other speakers who suggest the same thing that we're not talking about something else.

[00:02:55]We're talking about this. The reason I use the word this so much is it seems as inadequate as it is, it still seems the best word for not that.

[00:03:11]That always seems to refer to something that is over there, is behind, is beyond, is somewhere else.

[00:03:23]Not here, there, that.

[00:03:27]And that's not what we're speaking about.

[00:03:35]We're speaking about this.

[00:03:44]Just this only this.

[00:03:52]And not that this is happening to me.

[00:03:56]Not there. Not that there is this and me.

[00:04:00]Not that there is a this that I could find.

[00:04:10]Not your this and my this.

[00:04:14]Just this.

[00:04:31]It really is this most simple, outrageously simple suggestion.

[00:04:40]However, there'll be no knowing of this.

[00:04:47]To know this, to find this, you would have to find everything, which in theory is feasible.

[00:05:03]Hypothetically, science could know everything.

[00:05:08]But I don't think no matter how hard science tries, no matter how hard self tries to find nothing, nothing will be So we're actually talking speaking about that there's nothing to find.

[00:05:55]There is already everything.

[00:05:58]This is the end.

[00:06:03]This is as good as it gets. I know that [ __ ] When you've when you've desired life to be so much better than it is. Life is never better than it is. Life is only ever as it is.

[00:06:18]And that's not news.

[00:06:27]It's outrageously undeniable that life is as it is.

[00:06:33]including all the arguing that it could be otherwise, that it should be otherwise, that there are possibilities.

[00:06:54]So there are no possibilities.

[00:06:56]The impossibility of life being any other way than it is is the peace and the rest and the unconditional love which doesn't mean lovely.

[00:07:11]It could well mean completely [ __ ] This is not an argument that life could be lovely in a permanent state of bliss and peace and joy.

[00:07:32]Is simply life being just as it's being.

[00:07:47]And of course that's not how life is for for self generally for most selves.

[00:07:55]Life is not the way it should be. And self is the conflict is the violence is the aggression against how life is appearing.

[00:08:09]And that manifests usually as aggression, violence, conflict with myself because I don't like how I'm appearing to be.

[00:08:28]Some selves seem to prefer that internal conflict with self and others seem to like to blame the world and all the others.

[00:08:40]But it's the same it's the same game that self plays that somebody's got to be at fault. Something's got to be at fault in order for there to be the possibility of life be becoming better.

[00:08:56]And life can't become better.

[00:09:00]There is no becoming. Life is just as it is, always as it is.

[00:09:11]That's it.

[00:09:32]And there can be a resonance with this this message and it and some relief.

[00:09:37]Oh, thank God. It doesn't have to be a different way. It shouldn't be a different way.

[00:09:42]But that's always going to be in conflict with the one who has dreams and hopes and feels incomplete and longs still to come home, longs to be whole, longs to be at one with.

[00:10:03]And so the dreadfully disappointing but incredibly relieving news is that there is no becoming. There's nothing to become and there's no possibility of that.

[00:10:21]Impossibility is seen as nihilistic by self. But actually it's not at all.

[00:10:28]It's unconditional love.

[00:10:31]It's acceptance without any acceptance.

[00:10:34]It's surrender without any surrender.

[00:10:42]So it is a [ __ ] that you can't do it.

[00:10:45]You probably tried surrender. You probably tried acceptance, especially self acceptance, self-love.

[00:10:58]All those [ __ ] affirmations.

[00:11:04]Oh god.

[00:11:06]So there's nothing to be affirmed. This takes no affir this takes no affirming.

[00:11:12]This is regardless of all resistance.

[00:11:15]This is as it is including all the arguing.

[00:11:34]So if you want to be at peace, it seems to take a lot lot of effort. For this to be at peace requires no effort at all.

[00:11:42]None.

[00:11:56]It's quite a revelation that life has no agenda.

[00:12:02]None whatsoever.

[00:12:07]Life isn't asking anything of you.

[00:12:12]You are asking of yourself and life.

[00:13:19]you want to ask anything, just put your hand up. If you want to share anything about what I've just said or ask about a particular topic. Hi, Judith.

[00:13:40]Hi Tim.

[00:13:42]>> Hello.

[00:13:43]>> Hi. Um, I just wanted to share a sort of seemed like an amusing thought as I came online and it may have something to do with I've just started a glass of wine but I doubt it. I I thought what [laughter] the what the hell am I doing coming online to this meeting?

[00:14:05]I mean [snorts] I [laughter] >> now you're asking you're asking the wrong person for sure did it.

[00:14:11]>> I mean I listen to um the recorded meetings of yourself and a couple of others um pretty in pretty constantly.

[00:14:21]Um but I thought what am I doing? I mean lovely though you are of course Tom Tim Tim I was thinking do I still be am I believing that you know or see or experience or feel something that I don't that's really important >> good question [laughter] >> and I and of course the the the yourself and a couple of others that I listen to have many times said, "There's nothing here that isn't there. There's nothing this knows that that doesn't know." Da da da da da. And I guess the sort of [laughter] the response here has been, "Oh, yeah.

[00:15:07]Yeah. Yeah. They're just saying that, you know, it's faux mod. It's false modesty."

[00:15:12]>> Well, of course they would say that.

[00:15:13]>> They would say that, wouldn't they?

[00:15:15]They've bloody got that >> because that's the non-Jew thing to say.

[00:15:19]So, they would just say that anyway.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah. But somehow I I don't know. I just thought, "What the hell am I doing?"

[00:15:26]Because I think I' I've listened to that particular bit of the message quite a bit recently and maybe it's just begun to sort of okay. Yeah. It can't be it can't be within, you know, as this message that you really know something I don't, right? Or unknow something that I don't unknow or something. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:52]>> I mean, it doesn't seem like that when you know, you say that the, you know, the armchair looks like, I don't know, nothing or something or isn't real and I look at the armchair in front of me and it looks >> I don't say that, do I?

[00:16:06]>> I think so. But well, anyway, >> I'm okay.

[00:16:09]>> Um, you did in Brighton. you said that that you know the things didn't anyway and but and I mean most speakers do of of this of this radical little little group that I'm >> and I'm looking at the armchair in front of me and thinking well >> it's sort of solid. I mean who but who cares >> whe it looks a bit more solid to me than it does to you. No, >> no, no. I Well, here's the thing, Judith. I mean, [snorts] to to answer your question, I mean, you answer your question. I mean, it's not for me to answer your question. You've asked me why the hell you're here. Well, I I've got a very simple answer, which is no good reason whatsoever other than possibly you think I've still got something that I could give you. And I mean, I now now not everyone here thinks that. I'm well aware of that. Some people just come for the hell of it.

[00:17:05]Some cuz they really love there can be a really falling in love with this message.

[00:17:11]>> Yeah, sure. I mean that's >> you can say that's I mean I I often I I can still ask why the [ __ ] I keep speaking about it.

[00:17:19]>> And the answer is really obvious because I love it. That's that's the answer.

[00:17:23]>> And I mean Yeah. And I mean something draws me to listen to this.

[00:17:29]>> Yeah. But it is a lot of the time >> and it's worse than But it's worse than um I mean it's worse than I have something or it's worse than I don't have something that you haven't got. I have something or don't have something. I've lost something that you need to lose.

[00:17:50]Any of those ideas, I mean, they're all nonsensical because you'll never know.

[00:17:55]>> Well, yeah, quite. I mean, it's like I think I will never know if I'm >> if I'm coming listening to all this because I'm still a terrible seeker, desperate seeker. Well, I mean, who cares if I am?

[00:18:07]>> So, what if I am? Um, >> no, really. So, what if you are?

[00:18:11]>> I might be coming because I just enjoy it and I certainly enjoy it. Uh, so who gives a [ __ ] basically? Who's >> No, absolutely. I mean, this this is this is really this is the meeting to come to to not give a [ __ ] Yeah.

[00:18:27]>> I mean that that in to me that in itself makes it worth doing.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[00:18:33]>> I mean all of you all of you who have been desperately seeking as I was something really special.

[00:18:41]Just the relief that there is nothing special at all and yet this ordinariness that we call >> my life just isn't mine. Yeah. Just >> could there be anything? There could be nothing more special in the abject ordinariness >> of what I've called my not good enough life. Well, that's all there is.

[00:19:10]>> Yeah.

[00:19:11]>> And all that seemed to happen is the the seeking for more stopped. That's all.

[00:19:18]It's nothing to really. I mean, I talk about self a lot. It's all [ __ ] There isn't a self.

[00:19:24]>> Yeah.

[00:19:25]>> It's just what I what I called myself and this and not too. That's that's all.

[00:19:29]I mean, it's it's really it's no big deal.

[00:19:33]>> Yeah. I quite like it's no big deal.

[00:19:36]>> It isn't a big deal.

[00:19:38]>> Make it out to be a big deal. And I'm beginning to think it really ain't no big deal.

[00:19:42]>> I mean, I I do think uh nearly everyone who speaks about this is making it too much of a big deal. Of course, it is the only deal. So, I'm not surprised they make it a big deal.

[00:19:53]>> I mean, if this is all there is. I mean, it's not a big deal. It's the only deal.

[00:19:57]>> Yes. The only deal.

[00:19:59]>> So, you can't get much bigger than that.

[00:20:02]And yet, it is the mundane most ordinary deal that you've tried. All it is is you've tried the the one who could escape from this mundane separate existence.

[00:20:15]just this the once the the trying to escape no longer appears then the obviousness of just this is well it's just undeniable. It's just it so it'll be no change at all and it might feel completely different without the oh there must be he Tim must still have something that I haven't got or Tim must have lost something that I still haven't lost.

[00:20:46]Now, here's the you ask not.

[00:20:49]>> No. And you'll never know. Here's the thing.

[00:20:52]>> It's a point. It's such a marvelously futile question. Who How the [ __ ] would you ever know?

[00:21:02]>> I mean, you don't know anything about another human being's experience at all.

[00:21:07]It's all guessing. It's all imagination, really.

[00:21:14]Yep.

[00:21:17]>> And >> and then we're talking about and what most selves will would feel is an awful simplicity.

[00:21:29]Remember, self likes complexity.

[00:21:31]>> It likes being clever, likes understanding.

[00:21:35]What's being suggested is there's nothing to understand.

[00:21:39]Whatever you understand about this, Judith, it's already worthless. It's useless.

[00:21:45]>> Yeah, that's that that's very clear, actually. All that all that super investigation.

[00:21:52]>> Yeah. All that [laughter] investigation.

[00:21:54]>> No. Well, it's fun.

[00:21:56]>> I mean, and the tens of thousands of words I've written on this, I mean, [ __ ] knows why.

[00:22:01]>> Yeah, me too.

[00:22:02]>> Writing down what people said. Oh, that sounded good. But I mean, it must be 10.

[00:22:06]There must be a a PhD worth except it's all nonsense. You know, tens of thousands of words. I'm sure I've written it down.

[00:22:16]>> Nice.

[00:22:16]>> I'm I'm getting somewhere.

[00:22:18]>> Yeah.

[00:22:22][laughter] >> So, um so wonderfully there's no answer to your question.

[00:22:31]>> I have no idea. [laughter] I I just know I just know there's not an answer to it.

[00:22:36]And uh and what wonderfully there doesn't need to be an answer.

[00:22:40]>> Oh no. Thanks Tim.

[00:22:42]>> Oh thanks Judith.

[00:22:48]Who's that? Is that Joan?

[00:22:51]John. John. Joan.

[00:22:54]John. Hi Tim.

[00:22:55]>> Hi John.

[00:22:56]>> Um I uh have been listening to you for a while. I I'm able to actually participate in this um recording because I'm sick and I had to take a personal date. Uh but I think what Judith was saying uh I I've asked myself the same question and um you know you talk about the relief a lot and um sorry um and you were talking about acceptance before and I've been trying to accept and not not do certain things and do certain things and your message flies in the face of all that. Um, a lot of speakers in a similar vein do, but yours resonates more with me than others. Um, and I I know there's nothing to really hold on to with anything you say. I can't apply it. I can't have it, you know. But I still do go back to recordings and I still go back to certain things you say just to hear it again just because I like the story that you tell, you know. Um, and I think, [gasps] you know, um, I've I've been trying to, uh, stop certain habits, certain things I do, you know, overeating, being on my phone too much, mostly stuff like that.

[00:24:34]And you said something uh you know a lot of people they feel like something it it almost sounded like something called earth surfing. A lot of people do it and they feel it and they feel it. That's just more me. And that to me there was a relaxation when you said that because it's like oh there's nobody there to do that you know and um it's things whenever you go you know whenever you talk about things like that whenever this message you know whatever it is uh that's that's why I listen that's why I come back and >> [sighs] >> Uh there's just a lot of self-criticism with the way I live my life to myself constantly and um it stops for a moment uh when hearing this message. So uh um anyway, I don't want to take up too much time. Oh, thank thanks Sean. That's lovely.

[00:25:58]>> Thank you. Thank you Tim.

[00:25:59]>> Oh, thanks Sean.

[00:27:03]>> [laughter] >> Sophie >> team. Hi.

[00:28:10]>> Hi.

[00:28:11]>> Here I am again. Um I have this little question like what would be like a difference between uh a recognition recognition and knowing?

[00:28:26]And I'm asking that because like you just said like there's no way of knowing anyone.

[00:28:33]>> No.

[00:28:33]>> But yet like when I mean my sister like we had a very intimate connection.

[00:28:36]They're very like close and like when she's like in a having some kind of emotion emotional storm or like completely like now going through something very heavy and I would be who is this?

[00:28:49]>> My sister.

[00:28:50]>> Your sister. Yeah.

[00:28:51]>> Yes. So like we would have this conversation and there would be like some kind of talking coming from my side and sort of try to reach a hand or something but there would be also like knowing of the patterns of the past. But like for as an example, she would be like very um she would be anxious if I would leave like she would have this pain of separation. And my mother had that too. So there is some kind of knowing of recognition of something.

[00:29:18]>> Yeah.

[00:29:19]>> Which is based on knowledge >> which doesn't mean I know her.

[00:29:24]>> You know what I mean? It's like sort of >> Oh yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, I mean there is the there is a knowledge of recognition. There's just no knowledge of the other self.

[00:29:36]Yeah. What's the difference then?

[00:29:38][laughter] >> Yeah. What is the difference? No, there isn't any difference.

[00:29:42]>> Oh, >> okay.

[00:29:45]>> No, because there there never was any.

[00:29:48]So, here's the thing. You know, you've heard me say a lot, how is it? So, people say, how is it different? And I say, well, it's completely different and exactly the same.

[00:29:58]>> Well, well, the recognition, the seeming knowing exactly the same.

[00:30:04]And yet it's not the recognition of the other other than me. There is just the recognition. So it's not so the personal what we call the personal about me or about your sister no longer has that that real sharp edge of it's really about me and it's really about her and it's really about our relationship.

[00:30:35]So all the recognition and what we call knowing is exactly the same but without that really uh solidity. It's got it's got a lightness to it that it never had because it was about because it was about me and you.

[00:30:52]>> Yeah.

[00:30:52]>> That's what I mean.

[00:30:54]>> Yeah. I was just curious because it was just going through my mind when I was talking to her like wow uh I was just saying stuff and I was thinking like there is no self like so what is all this about? But it's somehow somehow it was like I don't know there was a recognition of the pattern and the and the compassion and you're right there was not really like some kind of edge or something or like I really know her or something but there was some kind of familiar familiarity like >> oh absolutely I mean here's the thing I say to my brother which will be similar you know who who do you know best you probably know siblings in the knowing the other your siblings ings are the most known.

[00:31:36]>> Yeah, that's true.

[00:31:38]>> Because you've grown up together and you share you've got sh you've got shared more shared experiences than you ever could with a with a partner or with friends unless it's friends for life.

[00:31:51]And so you do you do have all that so-called history but that and that [clears throat] it's liberated. So me and my brother, we share a lot of uh Oh, do you remember?

[00:32:06]>> Yeah.

[00:32:07]>> Because I'm still at home in our family home. So he comes around and he goes, "I was just thinking, do you remember when dad d" and of course then we and we share that and it's actually it's it's really beautiful because there's no other human being I could possibly share any of that with other than him.

[00:32:25]>> Yeah. But it it's saying nothing about me and it's saying nothing about him.

[00:32:32]And then and I don't know that just feels so it feels so light. And and then even even the tragic stories, even the unpleasant memories, they feel like love.

[00:32:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. without without the personal attachment, without that real spiky, oh, what what is it saying about me? What does it say about me? What does it say about him?

[00:32:59]It's it's just it's just the beautiful memory.

[00:33:02]>> Yeah.

[00:33:05]>> Yeah.

[00:33:07]Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:09]Thank you.

[00:33:10]>> Thanks, Sophie.

[00:33:19]And of course when my when me and my brother we we also we also then disagree about what really happened cuz that's that's what that's what all siblings do when they talk about their childhood.

[00:33:33]You go, "Yeah, well that was because you were dad's favorite."

[00:33:38]And he'll go, "No, I don't think so." I went, "I don't think so. I know you were.

[00:33:45]That's That's because you always got preferential treatment. That's why >> that's so because she's convinced that mom loved me loved me more than her.

[00:33:56]>> There you go. There you go. Perfect.

[00:34:00]>> That's it.

[00:34:01]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:04]And of course there you could say none of that, you know, it's so long ago, none of that matters. But I mean, yeah, that that still, of course, it doesn't matter, but the child can still rear its ugly head and go, it's so unfair.

[00:34:24]But but also what really changed is like it's it's not fixed anymore like like seeing her each time like in a fresh way like as I see her for the first time sometimes like some there is like forgetfulness and then everything come back again. So that's that's really the difference.

[00:34:45]>> And of course there's also I mean I I like I like to talk of the downsides of this as well, not just the the glory.

[00:34:55]And the downside is of course it's very clear I don't know my brother.

[00:35:01]I know of him.

[00:35:04]I know of him more than any other human being. I know about him.

[00:35:12]>> That's so beautiful because I sometimes tell her like I cannot look inside your head. I don't know what's going in you.

[00:35:17]I don't know what's what's there is no way of knowing that. So >> no, >> no matter how much I try and like knowing >> but it is but it's so much easier. All relationships are so much easier without this delusion that you could know the other because then there's this constant disappointment for self wanting to know the other desperately and also wanting the other to know you and see you. You want to be heard. You want to be seen and it's just not possible.

[00:35:50]So most relationships are in this situation where there can't be there can't be the completion that the relationship offers to self. self always thinks that well the other can help to complete me which is not it's not possible and so that impossibility there can be a real there can be a sadness with that and um I think it's almost always unacceptable to self that if when that's seen as the truth the truth is you can never know another >> that can be very painful. It used to be painful. Not anymore.

[00:36:35]>> And that used to be excre when that was painful for me. It was excruciating cuz that it was very clear that's what I'd been trying to do all my life. Starting with my mother. I soon gave up with my father. I think I would have tried when I was young, but that I soon gave that as a bad job. And then um but I never gave up with my mother throughout my childhood and early adult life.

[00:37:06]>> And it was always a source of pain seemingly >> desperately wanting her to see me. And when I felt when I felt unseen and unheard, God, it felt like the end of the world.

[00:37:22]Yeah. It felt like death to me. to not be seen.

[00:37:28]>> You mean you mean not from like psychological side like really not being seen as a self?

[00:37:34]>> Yeah, I do mean from the psychological side but I'm more more more emotionally.

[00:37:39]I mean if my I we we just long for others to be you know we we have this word empathy that others are others can be so attuned to ourself that they actually understand and know exactly how we're feeling. Of course it's nonsense.

[00:37:56]>> Yeah.

[00:37:58]>> It's but boy we play this game with each other. Elves play this game all the time and wonder why there's dissatisfaction when it's doubtless that no one no one can know your emotions.

[00:38:15]They they they might intuitit some of it but you know actual know it. No. And even more when it's obvious that no one has ever seen you and known you, then as disappointing as it is, there's there's a huge relief.

[00:38:33]It's massively relieving because you no longer have that constant sense of failure that you're not being seen.

[00:38:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:44]>> That's how it felt to me. I I I felt inadequate and I felt desperate. When I fel when I really had the sense of being unseen and unheard, the the sense of me would be screaming.

[00:38:59]>> Yeah.

[00:39:00]>> And actually quite often I would lose my [ __ ] You know, I' uh I could throw a tantrum or be sobbing uncontrol a little bit.

[00:39:11]You know, really, it would be devastating. It would feel so so awful.

[00:39:19]>> I recognize it completely. And in my case, it would not be like throwing tantra. It would be like imploding inside like everything just go inside.

[00:39:26]And now it's such a relief. Not as it's all gone, but so much is gone. And then you realize the heaviness. The heaviness that the body have to carry. All of that is so tremendous.

[00:39:36]>> And there's no way of knowing until it's gone. You just don't realize it until it's gone. You just don't.

[00:39:40]>> No. No. No. No. No, I mean I just think it I because people say, "Well, when was it gone?" I think it might have been gone for months before there was any noticing because there's only space.

[00:39:51]There's nothing there's nothing in place of that heaviness.

[00:39:55]>> So, yeah, there's nothing really to notice.

[00:40:01]>> Thank you.

[00:40:02]>> Oh, thanks Sophie.

[00:40:04]Petra.

[00:40:06]>> Hi, Tim.

[00:40:07]>> Hello.

[00:40:09]um like uh for years I was looking for fulfillment in relationships and it of course it never worked and I'm at a right now it's like um I don't care anymore but um um [clears throat] I'm even happy that I don't have a partner but there it also reeks somehow like there's deceiving so it's it's not you know um like um h I'm not sure if I'm if I'm really uh um yeah if if it doesn't matter. I I I'm I'm talking like it doesn't matter anymore, but I I don't believe myself.

[00:40:56]So [laughter] >> yeah, I know. Yeah, that that makes sense.

[00:41:03]>> Okay. Yeah, it could change any moment.

[00:41:06]So >> Oh, yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

[00:41:08]>> Well, yeah, if it I mean really if it feels like it matters, that is what matters. That's that's it. That's all.

[00:41:16]>> Yeah. But >> because absolutely nothing outside of each human being matters.

[00:41:23]>> Because it was really painful for years from >> Yeah.

[00:41:29]>> Yeah. So intense seeking uh for Yeah.

[00:41:37]H >> have you been seeking for a long time?

[00:41:40]>> Oh yes. [laughter] Suffering a lot. Yeah.

[00:41:47]Yeah.

[00:41:50]Yeah. But as I said, it could change any moment. So, I'm it's not that that I I would love it if it would some somehow be if I'm if I would be through the whole thing, but you'll never know. Yeah.

[00:42:09]>> No. Well, you won't be through the whole thing. That's nothing. [laughter] There's nothing There's nothing to be through.

[00:42:17]>> Yeah.

[00:42:18]>> No.

[00:42:19]>> Yeah.

[00:42:22]H >> no.

[00:42:26]>> No.

[00:42:28]Uh would you say there's um something like a natural naturalness in feelings or um uh the point is as I said uh before I don't I'm not afraid of grief and u but um when it comes to selfhatred this doesn't seem That's not natural. No animal would hate itself. So, and somehow the body is also an animal, I would say.

[00:43:06]>> Oh. Oh, yeah. We're definitely animals who believe themselves to be >> autonomous existent beings rather than >> Yeah. Animals animals don't think of themselves as animals.

[00:43:18]>> Yeah. But >> they're just they're just being animals.

[00:43:21]But then then here I mean it you can't say that it's not natural for human beings to develop a sense of self >> because it seems that every human being develops a sense of self. So of course that self is as natural as anything else about being human. It's just [ __ ] painful for a lot of it's just dreadfully painful for so many human beings that we we seek a way out.

[00:43:49]We we seek an escape from the one I I often used to say don't remember the last time I said it but I used to say if if I had a friend like me I would have told them to [ __ ] off years ago cuz you know I was just I was just awful to myself >> you know I was the worst friend to myself >> because of course self here's the thing there isn't a self there's a lot of selves there's all these aspects of selves But some selves have a very dominant critical self, you know, and then the critical self can then develop into a self-loathing self.

[00:44:30]>> That's what I wanted to talking about the self-loathing and and I was wondering is this is >> Yeah, >> but but again it's all innocent. I mean now >> it's also innocent.

[00:44:45]Yeah. And and I would say it's all totally natural. That's the other thing.

[00:44:50]So, you know, I I I no longer see self as the enemy. Self is always innocently trying to help itself.

[00:45:00]>> Okay.

[00:45:01]So, the criticism [clears throat] is so that you can be better >> because you're not good enough. That's it really. I mean, it's not that complex.

[00:45:11]I think psychology is a lot simpler than it's generally made out to be. Self usually is full of criticism of itself in order that it could be better because it's not good enough. And the whole sense of me for virtually every self is not good enough, >> not worthy. There's the thing. So the criticism is that crit critically uh that critical parental voice which you know it might be a combination. It doesn't have to be a parent but it usually is who's who's just like your parents were critical of you and they were trying to make you better to make you stronger to make you >> I want you to be happy as you said.

[00:45:56]>> Yeah. I I just want you to be happy. So you know all sadness is wrong. All every emotion other than selfless joy is is probably unacceptable. You have to pretend.

[00:46:12]But but there is a there is a great innocence to all of it.

[00:46:22]If right if a human if if if self feels inadequate what what more innocent behavior could there be than this sense of okay I I need to be hard on myself in in order to make me better.

[00:46:50]But there isn't anyone to be better and there isn't actually better is still just this childish this childish notion of what what I was taught as a child is actually what makes a good self a good human being.

[00:47:05]And so I always fall short.

[00:47:10]I'm always I'm always falling short.

[00:47:12]Even when I succeed, I could always do better.

[00:47:18]Perfe perfectionism of self is more common than um common than we really speak about.

[00:47:27]>> You know, by perfectionism I mean not it's never good enough.

[00:47:33]>> Well, actually I'm quite better off this week than last week, so I [laughter] don't care.

[00:47:39]>> Good.

[00:47:41]Yeah.

[00:47:42]>> Thanks, Tim.

[00:47:44]>> Thanks, Petra.

[00:47:50]Laura has Yeah. Hi Lauren.

[00:47:55]>> I >> Hi Lauren.

[00:47:59]>> So how can you say that?

[00:48:03]How can you say that this is all there is? There isn't more somewhere else.

[00:48:09]>> Well, it's not difficult to say it.

[00:48:14]Do you mean how how do I know that?

[00:48:19]>> Yeah. Like how can you confirm that?

[00:48:25]>> Um, that's a good question.

[00:48:33]I mean, I don't I don't know that there's I just don't doubt it.

[00:48:40]I I would just I would just ask you, have you known anything that anything else? Is there knowing of anything else other than what seems to be going on?

[00:48:49]What seems to be happening?

[00:48:52]That's all.

[00:48:54]>> No.

[00:48:56]And there's some like sense of infinity or eternity like boundlessness, but not in not in a way that's really like not that obvious.

[00:49:11]It's more of a a necessity, you know, because there's no end. So, there has to be endlessness. Um, but >> I'm I'm struggling I'm struggling to hear I'm struggling to hear clearly what you're saying, Lauren.

[00:49:27]>> Sorry.

[00:49:29]>> No, that's on me.

[00:49:32]I was hoping I would get lucky with a good >> point in my in my >> Say your say your point again.

[00:49:41]>> Ah, well, I can see that there's no end.

[00:49:45]So endlessness is sort of a ne a necessity or a necessary conclusion you know but that's an that's an imagination. I don't have a sense of immediate boundlessness that is you know >> no well whether whether there's a there's a sense of bounded and contained or boundlessness I mean it's just this all I'm all I'm suggesting Lauren There there's nothing other than the sense the sense of this that seems to be happening. That's all.

[00:50:34]>> There's something about it when you say it. I just I appreciate it. So, thank you.

[00:50:40]>> Thanks.

[00:51:53]Oh dear.

[00:51:57]Cold coming. Oh dear.

[00:52:01]I'm just sneezing.

[00:52:04]Cold coffee.

[00:54:31]Abriella has a hand up.

[00:54:34]>> Hi, David.

[00:54:35]>> Hello.

[00:54:36]>> Hello.

[00:54:38]I thought I I don't know. I don't I'm like everyone else. No idea why I'm here. I've just come to look at your pretty face. Really, that's the main thing. But really, I'm here to look at Darren's pretty face.

[00:54:50]Yeah. See?

[00:54:52]>> Yeah. Don't Don't just try and make him feel better.

[00:54:56]>> All right, then.

[00:54:57]>> Thanks, Gabby.

[00:54:58]>> Yeah. You're welcome.

[00:55:00][laughter] >> It's it's it's interesting, isn't it?

[00:55:04]Because I I hear you say, "No self. There isn't anyone." And I and I hear you say I I I I a lot. So I'm presuming >> Yeah. So I'm presuming that here there take there's a sense that I am located in this body.

[00:55:31]>> Yeah.

[00:55:32]>> And when you say I I am presuming that that's not what you mean. you being wherever [ __ ] you are.

[00:55:43]>> If you know what I mean.

[00:55:46]>> Oh, that's funny.

[00:55:47]>> Yeah.

[00:55:49]>> Or whoever the [ __ ] you think you are.

[00:55:52]>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:55:56]>> Which is even funnier.

[00:55:59]>> Even funny. Um, it has been said of me a number of times, who the [ __ ] do you think you are?

[00:56:07]>> Yeah, exactly. But point is, if I were to say that to you, you would say, I don't.

[00:56:13]>> Yeah.

[00:56:15][laughter] >> No, that's all that's all good. I um Oh, >> but do you know >> the thing is the thing is Gabby I I mean I you know >> there isn't there isn't no self. There isn't no self.

[00:56:34]>> No no that's because that would be something wouldn't it?

[00:56:41]>> How can it be something if it's no self?

[00:56:43]If it's not if it's not is it?

[00:56:48]>> No. And you're looking at me. You're looking at me and go, "Well, I'm a self.

[00:56:53]This This is me being you."

[00:56:55]>> Mhm.

[00:56:56]>> You're looking at me and you're going, "Well, I'm a self, but Tim, he's a no self."

[00:57:03]>> Oh, no. No, that's not what I'm saying.

[00:57:06]>> Oh, well. You don't Do you don't think I am a no self?

[00:57:09]>> I don't know what you are.

[00:57:11]>> Correct.

[00:57:12]>> Apart from that, you are quite a good golfer.

[00:57:16]Oh, you say all the right things. Now, here's the thing. When you say you don't know what I am, >> that's exactly the same as when I see you. I don't know what you are. Apart from I recognize your face as Gabriella, wonderful human being.

[00:57:35]>> Correct.

[00:57:35]>> I couldn't give a [ __ ] whether you've got a self or not.

[00:57:39]>> No, I know you couldn't give a [ __ ] What I'm saying is >> that's what I mean. Right. So, I no longer I no longer think of human beings as having You see, here's the thing. I don't think that it's possible to have one in the first place, but I'm well aware that nearly everyone I speak to's pretty without me having to ask them, it's a pretty fair bet that they feel that they have and they're pretty sure that they have.

[00:58:09]So, I treat most as if they have, even though I doubt I don't doubt that that's elusory. But, but I mean, I'm Here's the thing. I'm making that [ __ ] up, Gabby. I don't [ __ ] How the hell would I know?

[00:58:23]>> Don't tell the others.

[00:58:25]They're listening, you know.

[00:58:27]>> I don't know.

[00:58:30]>> I don't know.

[00:58:33]That's I mean, that's the whole thing.

[00:58:35]This is so all it is is going from nearly everyone meets another human being and they know that there's a self they're talking to. So when they say the name of that human being, they are referring to that human being's sense of self. That's who they're talking to. And people think that they're talking to that self.

[00:59:00]>> Yes. This >> that's who you are. That's you. Whereas I'm talking to you and I just think, you know, delightful human being.

[00:59:09]>> Got no idea who you are.

[00:59:12]>> Pretty sure you look fairly human, so I'll go with human being. That's as good as I've got.

[00:59:19]>> Yes. That and that's that's I'm not quite sure how to say that, but that was what I meant. So that was what I meant. Although it was like I just wanted to have a conversation around that and and that's what I meant but I wouldn't have been able to say it like that. So uh yeah >> thank you very much.

[00:59:46]>> No. So no. So because you ask me what's here and I mean I'm going to come out with some non-dual [ __ ] if you're not careful. I'm going to say everything and nothing and then you'll go well that's ridiculous.

[01:00:00]Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:02]>> Yeah, because that is ridiculous. Of course. Of course it is ridiculous.

[01:00:10]>> And then you might And then you're going to say then like, well, who the hell do you think you are?

[01:00:17]>> That is true. And then that's when you'd have to come in with golf. I'm a golfer.

[01:00:24]I'm not anything. I'm nothing. I'm not this. I'm not that. There isn't anyone to be this or that except for golfer being a golfer. Yeah.

[01:00:34]Yeah.

[01:00:35]>> Yes.

[01:00:37]But you see I am not the golfer.

[01:00:41]>> Oh, are you not?

[01:00:43]>> No. Golf golf golf balls are hit.

[01:00:46]Golfing happens. But there is no golfer thereof.

[01:00:51]cuz um apparently um Sedartha Gratama he was a six handicap.

[01:01:03]>> Okay. I I don't know enough about golf to know whether that's a good or a bad thing.

[01:01:09]>> You know that famous Indian golfing >> is six good.

[01:01:17]>> Six is good. Yeah. I'm a tw I'm a 12.

[01:01:21]>> Oh, >> so six is good. Yeah, six is >> one is even better.

[01:01:24]>> Oh, one. Yeah. And you can be then if you get below then you go plus.

[01:01:30]>> Bloody hell.

[01:01:32]>> Yeah, you go plus. So you go like plus four. I've got I know a lad, young lad who's plus four.

[01:01:40]>> Don't want to know him for very long.

[01:01:41]>> I mean I love him and hate him in equal measure.

[01:01:45]>> Yeah.

[01:01:47]Yeah. See that that's what I mean. See, when you say I love him and hate him in equal measures, >> there is a sense of self that projects another sense of self over there. And that and that's what I was referring to.

[01:02:04]>> Yeah. And of course, yeah.

[01:02:07]>> Yeah.

[01:02:08]>> I mean I mean sort of so what really?

[01:02:12]>> No. Is it not important then?

[01:02:14]>> No.

[01:02:16]of no consequence whatsoever.

[01:02:20]>> You can you can project all you like.

[01:02:23]>> Oh, thank you, sweetie. [laughter] >> Most people normally tell me off when I do that. Oh, projecting again. You're projecting.

[01:02:33]>> To be to be honest, that's you can't do much else really.

[01:02:41]>> All All these wonderfully innocent projections you know, and um none of them right and none of them wrong. Isn't >> I mean there there's the that's the unconditional love that what does each human being does? It projects from what it well it projects and says there is an external reality whereas there isn't an external reality.

[01:03:10]The whole notion of external reality just comes from the sense of me being separate from it.

[01:03:17]>> There there is >> there's nothing out there. Gabby, >> I'm going to go look out the window in a minute because I'm not sure that you're correct cuz I can hear the I didn't say there's nothing to see. You might see stuff.

[01:03:33]>> Oh, okay.

[01:03:36]>> You always got an answer for something, haven't you?

[01:03:41]>> [laughter] >> Oh god. But there is a and I know I'm waffling on and there's everyone else wants to have a go but it's um it it's just there's also you know when you coming into this meeting and when you speak and just this the the the lightness the energetic lightness is just lovely.

[01:04:13]I know you said it wasn't lovely at the beginning.

[01:04:16]>> Oh, no. No. It's lovely if it's lovely.

[01:04:19]>> It is lovely. Yeah.

[01:04:21]>> I I I only mean it's lovely if it's lovely. And if it's not lovely, it's probably not lovely.

[01:04:32]>> Yeah.

[01:04:34]>> You know, just how it is.

[01:04:36]>> Just how it is. Well, how it is is lovely at the minute.

[01:04:40]>> Thanks, Gabriella. Thank you.

[01:04:52]>> Oh, what's time? 10 past. Well, thanks everybody. Thanks Darren. Um, >> thanks Tim.

[01:04:59]>> Thanks everyone for coming.

[01:05:05]>> Lovely meeting Tim and everybody.

[01:05:08]>> Thank you. Thanks everybody.

[01:05:14]Okay.

[01:05:15]>> Love you, Tim. Thank you so much.

[01:05:18]>> Thank you.

[01:05:20]>> Thank you, Tim.

[01:05:21]>> Bye.

[01:05:22]>> Bye.

[01:05:23]>> Love you.

[01:05:25]>> Thank you, Tim. Thank you.

[01:05:27]>> Thanks, David. Bye. See you.

[01:05:32]>> [cough]