STATE OF THE LUO NATION

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-16

[00:00:00]Welcome to Red Ring TV YouTube channel.

[00:00:03]This evening we have a bench here that is going to discuss the state of the L nation and uh before we take off I want to invite you to subscribe Red Ring TV channel for we are bringing you political insights in the nation and also in the Nyanza region.

[00:00:28]This evening I'm privileged to have the youngest and sharpest analyst.

[00:00:37]>> Thank you.

[00:00:38]>> In the political space is in the house.

[00:00:42]>> Thank you sir.

[00:00:43]>> Former MP for Aendo Jared COA in the house.

[00:00:47]>> Thank you.

[00:00:47]>> And my own chairman Kennedy Buya UDA chairman Homa Bay County in the house.

[00:00:52]>> Good evening >> Brian. You have been there for the shortest period and you are born al and I believe you live al >> yes >> and you have read and you've heard and you have researched >> tell me what is your assessment today is the state of the L nation >> politically socially and economically >> thank you so much for this opportunity and of course I'm honored to sit amongst a very experienced gentlemen >> you want to learn from the best and I know what you're distinctioning Of course, you know.

[00:01:28]>> Yes.

[00:01:28]>> Yeah. Uh what I would say is this. I would first look at our history politically, sorry, socially.

[00:01:34]>> Yes.

[00:01:34]>> Uh just before she died and had an experience with my grandmother even offering her ground to host some churches uh in both the plots that she had in Kisumu. And so back then the L infrastructure socially was very very good. And uh family was family be it polygamous or monogamous, it was family.

[00:01:54]And people who came out of that came out very beautifully and then that informed our economics then because sitting with us at Bio I remember her telling me about how people used to get married before.

[00:02:03]>> Yes.

[00:02:04]>> She told me about people being grabbed.

[00:02:07]>> Yes.

[00:02:08]>> Once you spot you grabbed mentioning that herself.

[00:02:10]>> And by the way are you married?

[00:02:12]>> Of course.

[00:02:12]>> Okay. Then you can proceed.

[00:02:15]>> Multi democracy.

[00:02:17]>> Yeah. So I remember telling me how uh people used to get married back then and and how then that was formalized including us um having visitations from the aunties bring something called kunaanga >> to to to the mia who is now freshly taken >> and it's something that was really admirable listening to her >> but also just listening to the kind of respect and discipline that existed in families >> uh being that many many families then were either farmers or they were into civil service >> and of course all of us know it was either poster teaching or or railway rail >> and and we saw that doing so so well now juapose that against the current situation uh the lu nation is receding terribly and very fast >> before you go there I just want to appreciate what you're saying that uh the L family unit >> was something that was fundamental and the community was very deliberate about >> exactly >> that we didn't just pick anyhow.

[00:03:18]>> Mhm.

[00:03:19]>> Everybody had to I mean the key people had to participate if a young man was getting married.

[00:03:24]>> Exactly. The decision was was familiar.

[00:03:27]It was it was not left for what we call even if you ro you must bring home.

[00:03:32]Correct. So that is decided upon as a family.

[00:03:34]>> Correct.

[00:03:35]>> I remember even myself when I was getting married.

[00:03:37]>> Yes.

[00:03:37]>> My dad did tell me that before you make any key decision please consult with me.

[00:03:42]uh I will find out a few things that maybe you may not see at your age >> but I can inform you and they will help you economically.

[00:03:50]>> Now that fundamental unit of the of the society which is the family >> then influence our economics.

[00:03:56]>> Yes.

[00:03:56]>> And I'll tell you an example again from my very family.

[00:03:59]>> My father is the last born.

[00:04:00]>> Mhm.

[00:04:01]>> And uh for him to go to university >> Yes.

[00:04:03]>> he exiled very well.

[00:04:05]>> Correct.

[00:04:05]>> For me to go to university was a family issue.

[00:04:07]>> Correct.

[00:04:07]>> Because my grandmother Yes. She was a business person but a time came when she didn't have much money. Mhm.

[00:04:12]>> And it had to be a family decision to sell a piece of land for my father to go to school.

[00:04:18]>> And actually the sale was not made wholesome.

[00:04:21]>> The payment was made very partial just to ensure he entered university >> and and to ensure basically his interest are taken care of and that then made us look at life differently because once he went to school today I can say technically he's the one who has been holding the whole family because he went to school on behalf of the family >> of the family.

[00:04:40]>> Okay. Wonderful. Now I want you to japose that to the current situation.

[00:04:45]>> Now to the current situation there's a big challenge. Yes.

[00:04:47]>> Because uh let me say women who are married women and men were married about in the 80s upwards to early '90s and now late ' 90s. There's there's a shift from communal kind of of of looking at issues to very individual kind of um perspectives. I call it individualism where a family is no longer grandmother, uncle n it's moved to wife, husband, children.

[00:05:14]>> Full stop.

[00:05:15]>> Full stop. And even the children are moved away from from the bigger family.

[00:05:19]In fact, I remember we used to go home during our holidays. But now >> if you want to go home, it looks like a struggle.

[00:05:27]>> You hear >> it's a project.

[00:05:28]>> Yeah. Yeah, you hear people saying going home they they have a lot of superstition towards home which is not actually the case.

[00:05:37]>> They look at the what they call primitivity I call it simplicity >> of of of reserves as a bad thing.

[00:05:43]>> Now school today if somebody is not able to go to school today >> he's actually not able to go to school completely >> if you don't have a bus from a moshima like Jared here then you're gone basically you're going to end up as a vagabond in the cities and that is a very painful thing. Correct.

[00:05:58]>> Then you also have the issue of single moms >> and children don't have fathers.

[00:06:02]>> It is quite a big issue in Land.

[00:06:04]>> But that one begs back to one question.

[00:06:06]>> Mhm.

[00:06:07]>> Should we reook at polygamy the way it was then >> because it was working?

[00:06:12]>> Mhm.

[00:06:13]>> And there was no child who didn't have a father >> because all children have a father.

[00:06:18]>> But there's a question about ownership >> especially by the women. It's a topic that maybe >> many people may not be comfortable of speaking about but I think we should reook at it. But the single mothers apparently seem to be very proud to be single mothers.

[00:06:29]>> They they could be on the surface value.

[00:06:32]>> But deep inside, especially if uh there's some that could be corrected, >> they most of them would want to to reconcile on on a few things that I'm certain of.

[00:06:41]>> Leave it there.

[00:06:42]>> Thank you.

[00:06:43]>> Jared Copio, >> yes, >> you have lived longer and says that uh the older part of Lu was in the 60s and 70s and 80s. Mhm.

[00:06:55]>> I know you go deeper than that beyond that. Can you give me your state of the L nation from the past to present?

[00:07:04]>> Yeah, I think I agree with Bambo.

[00:07:08]>> Yes, >> he's he's young, but I think he's he's had a research experience, not a new experience >> about the L social setup.

[00:07:19]>> Yes.

[00:07:20]>> Yeah. in um >> you know he has grown up in the on the knees of the elderly.

[00:07:25]>> Yeah.

[00:07:26]>> Very true.

[00:07:26]>> He's learned from the best.

[00:07:28]>> Yes.

[00:07:28]>> Yes. So what I want to say is that um the the the the lu social setup in those early days was uh very well structured. There was a lot of belief in uh in in the family system.

[00:07:44]>> Can you paint a picture?

[00:07:45]>> Mhm.

[00:07:46]>> Yes. Just paint a picture.

[00:07:47]>> Yes. There was a lot of belief in the in the family system. Yes.

[00:07:51]>> You >> the children belonged to everyone.

[00:07:55]>> Correct.

[00:07:55]>> In the extended family, >> correct?

[00:07:57]>> And even their discipline, their upbringing was uh uh collective.

[00:08:02]>> That has changed a lot. Number two, um there was strong belief in marriages and uh people it was a big issue if somebody decided to stay unmarried like if somebody stayed and married it was an issue >> in the community >> actually you are a par you actually people would actually make it their business to your wife you >> ridicule you and even go out of their going to get you >> a wife.

[00:08:36]>> Also the women, >> it was not something to be proud of.

[00:08:40]>> Yes.

[00:08:41]>> To be to have a child.

[00:08:42]>> Yes.

[00:08:43]>> And not be married.

[00:08:44]>> Yes.

[00:08:45]>> So at that >> and worse still not to go >> to remain unmarried forever.

[00:08:50]>> That that was unheard of.

[00:08:52]>> That has changed over time. these days as you are say trying to say h women sometimes choose to say single and they say they're proud of it >> which uh I don't think is even true or even right because deep down inside them >> at a time of reflection they still feel that there's a place of a man in their lives >> but you're not a woman >> no no the the serious thing what I'm saying is this >> uh I have had in my earlier Yes.

[00:09:24]>> An opportunity >> to mentor young children >> as a teacher.

[00:09:30]>> Yeah.

[00:09:31]>> And uh people who came from backgrounds of single parenthood like single motherhood.

[00:09:38]>> Yes.

[00:09:38]>> Had a lot of social challenges and sometimes as a teacher you step in even to to mentor and bring and >> educate as a father. Now, >> so that those are gaps that exist as a result of we veering off from our initial struct family structures of where where somebody must be married in a family and this family must exist within the confines of a larger.

[00:10:08]>> What I wanted you to paint as you go there is how did we exist as a community?

[00:10:16]Uh let me say before independence because the a lot of disruption came after independence.

[00:10:25]uh socially, economically and politically in terms of how are we governing ourselves?

[00:10:32]um how are we empowered as as a people and uh how are we living socially at least socially you have dealt with but I want you to go into the two aspects the economic well-being of the community and the governance structure of the community and uh we want to come and compare it with the present >> very well uh in uh those early days >> yes >> I would say colonial and Post post pre Yes. pre-colonial and a little bit postc colonial.

[00:11:07]>> We had uh you know as uh >> Lewis >> yes >> we have basically um a system where there was a significant male person >> to govern >> pat >> a pat.

[00:11:22]>> Yeah >> to govern a family and even the larger community.

[00:11:25]>> Correct.

[00:11:26]>> Yeah. So that is where we existed and during those days >> Yeah. The place of such leaders >> were reserved.

[00:11:34]>> Yes.

[00:11:35]>> They were respected. They were revered.

[00:11:38]>> And he did not govern as a person.

[00:11:40]>> Yes.

[00:11:41]>> There were people other elders.

[00:11:44]>> There was a council.

[00:11:45]>> There was a council of elders.

[00:11:46]>> Yes.

[00:11:47]>> To help him govern.

[00:11:48]>> Yes.

[00:11:49]>> Uh that that jurisdiction.

[00:11:51]>> Correct. So that existed over time before the disruptions that came later on as a result of uh the independence we got and and of course changes in the way we we lived.

[00:12:03]>> Yes.

[00:12:04]>> The that time we existed basically as uh farmers as business people.

[00:12:09]>> Yes.

[00:12:10]>> And uh the lu had a way of recognizing uh enterprise.

[00:12:16]>> Yes.

[00:12:17]>> So that we had people like Yes. You know people who are who are endowed >> who are properly endowed. Yes.

[00:12:24]>> And the endowment was not all simply on the on the basis of material wealth even in in terms of family.

[00:12:31]>> In fact the first endowment of alure is children.

[00:12:35]>> Children and wives.

[00:12:36]>> Yes.

[00:12:36]>> Yes. In fact they are saying if you had only one wife you would not sit with elders and sit at the at the doorway when people are drinking because you might you might >> and that's not a laughing matter. That's a serious man.

[00:12:51]>> That was a serious matter.

[00:12:53]>> So to to the extent that >> yes >> uh endowment was revered was respected in terms of the material wealth accumulated in terms of the number of the number of wives and children that you had in terms of land. The land that you were able to to consolidate >> heads of cattle.

[00:13:12]>> Yes. Heads of cattle and so on and so forth. So that has shifted. But the thing is as a law community we had an organization around a significant male person >> who was our family figurehead.

[00:13:26]>> Yeah.

[00:13:26]>> Very good. Uh chairman.

[00:13:29]>> Yes sir.

[00:13:30]>> I know today we are running our community politically.

[00:13:36]>> Our leaders people we call leaders are but political representatives.

[00:13:41]>> Those are the people we call leaders today. and uh where you are you know I'm subordinate because you are my chairman.

[00:13:50]Tell me how has the L politics made law as a community a better people or worse people.

[00:14:01]>> Okay compared to the past.

[00:14:03]>> Thank you. I it's I'm privileged good evening to our viewers.

[00:14:08]>> Correct.

[00:14:08]>> I'm privileged to be part of this session. Uh my my fellow panelists have have given very resourceful >> correct >> submissions. Uh personally uh >> I know I know how you are scattered in your brain but I want you to focus on the history >> the history of of the L community.

[00:14:28]>> Yes.

[00:14:29]>> Uh I picked their minds uh the key fundamental >> thing that we all agree on is the human resource.

[00:14:38]>> Correct. the human resource of the LE community uh is the basic and the most fundamental uh aspect of who we are as a community.

[00:14:48]>> Correct. uh if you look historically where the lu community began in the north of Africa uh and up to uh the present day that is from 2,000 years ago up to the present day >> uh we have gone to a population of about uh uh nearly 40 million people across uh 12 uh uh nations >> within Africa >> that is from the north all the way to west Africa and Guinea south >> now uh the liberal community are naturally people who believe in equality, people believe in uh uh status, >> justice, people who believe in in in the rule of law.

[00:15:33]>> Correct. And uh as it is evident uh uh before independence and after independence, we have been champions uh in in in our respective countries of of of of residents where we we champion uh for for the voice of reason.

[00:15:50]>> Correct. And if you look at uh the leadership the L community the same way my fellow paid said we have a structure of leadership >> and this structure of leadership uh before independence we had a council of elders. The council of elders had different representatives led by one gentleman had a title called K and uh other leaders within the council of elders had different responsibilities.

[00:16:23]We had the representative of of of of the of the mediums, people who had were gifted with the power to foresee and and and and and you know, the future.

[00:16:38]>> They would they would even sleep. They would chant, you know, and evoke spirits of our forefathers so that people would have a spiritual uh lens on on on how we go on the future, where are we headed?

[00:16:52]Because if you look at the l their migration >> the forers and the jello.

[00:16:56]>> Yes. That is it. And equally there were people who the l would called jaganga.

[00:17:02]>> Yes.

[00:17:02]>> Or jalu.

[00:17:03]>> Yes.

[00:17:04]>> The people who basically they are the warriors >> who would be be told they had a you know they had a sitting in the council of elders. Their main focus was economics, acquisition of of unknown territories, acquisition of land. And because basically we we we predominantly farmers we we used to farm uh cattle livestock that is we used to farm uh um also poultry >> and and and to some extent at some point it became uh blue economy farmers >> and and and uh and and uh >> as we speak >> uh that has changed over time >> correct >> because of given reasons. One of them are emerging issues politically >> and and the way we've been subjected by the previous regimes >> that has affected how we we engage economically. We have so far uh if you look at the education >> law are generally people who are gifted with with the gift of of reasoning.

[00:18:10]education. If you look at the scholars of independent Kenya, >> quite a majority of scholars in the independent Kenya were >> Lew >> but somebody somehow decided that you know the L scholars somehow it was killed to some extent. But that has not changed how we focus on how we agitate for the rule of law, for equality, for good governance in Kenya. Our population has risen. We have got a lot of factors including sicknesses, bad policies of governance that has affected our participation to to quality life as a people. But now presently, there's something that happened last year.

[00:19:02]the loss and the death of the de facto l before you go there before you go there chairman I want you to deal with this >> yes >> how have we transitioned as a community we seem to be the only community that is instead of progressing >> yes >> has come down on a few indices number Our per capita income >> Mhm.

[00:19:34]>> as a community >> in the pre-colonial after independence up to 1980 >> was the highest in Kenya.

[00:19:44]>> That's true.

[00:19:44]>> Today we are low. Our education we were the best in the country.

[00:19:51]>> Today if you go to any master's class we are neither non-existent or a minority.

[00:19:58]And uh socially we had a place in this country.

[00:20:04]Today we are neither here nor there.

[00:20:05]What is this that is happening? You know when I was growing up >> Yes.

[00:20:11]>> as a young man in the 80s and '90s.

[00:20:14]>> Politics besides the future of any democratic nation.

[00:20:20]>> Mhm.

[00:20:21]>> Politics, leadership and democracy.

[00:20:25]Our modern Kenya, the independent Kenya, we have a constitutional republic and our elections as of recent been violated by the status quo. Number one, something happened when we started choosing leaders who only affiliate >> with the perceived principles of the nation. Mhm.

[00:20:55]>> We have denied the citizens of the L nation, the common man, the power to elect people who are credible, people who are scholars, people who have a calling of leadership.

[00:21:12]Now this is why we have added up because we have led people who tell you know they say it's either three piece or six piece. Now having have had leaders the last 20 15 years we have had leaders who their priority and their their allegiance is not to the electorate it is to the principles. That is how we uh we went wrong >> because the common man education needs money.

[00:21:41]But if you go at the grassroot leadership in the L nation now there are people who say if you do not you are not my supporter you not get basary for your child.

[00:21:52]>> You not get access to scholarship. How do we end up sustaining what we had at independence if we have to lose it because of bad leadership?

[00:22:03]>> I think you nailed it chairman. It is leadership.

[00:22:06]>> Leadership that has moved us from where we are >> Yes.

[00:22:09]>> to the lower level to the level.

[00:22:12]>> Yes.

[00:22:13]>> Uh because you are scholarly.

[00:22:16]>> I want you to deal with this is my father. Thank you for the correction. Yes, I want you to deal with this.

[00:22:26]>> As a community, we have conflated two things.

[00:22:31]>> The interest of the LU community and the interest of our dominant political party, particularly ODI.

[00:22:41]Uh is it possible for the community to decouple these two issues?

[00:22:49]Because when we pursue our agenda through ODM, whatever we come to is shared nationally.

[00:23:03]And when we use ODM, we cannot prime or mainstream our agenda as a community because we are there with other communities. And now as a community we don't have a platform to champion our interest.

[00:23:20]>> What can we do as a community so that we regle ourel out of this conflation?

[00:23:25]>> Well it's a very interesting question and uh I'm going to answer it in multiple ways because I want us to look at it as multiple scenario. Scenario number one is ODM the problem?

[00:23:38]Have the people demonstrated that they can they can elect leaders on other parties other than ODM? We all know the answers to this. But most importantly, is ODM an economic uh is it a contributor in the economic uh progress of the people? And number four, what are the basics that the people need to work on that even without ODM, they will still thrive. Okay. So let me first deal with that very quickly that when I take a derivative from what my brother was speaking about I find an interesting thing which works for all of us and that is the law.

[00:24:16]>> If a political party or a political principle would be an oppressor then the only remedy that we have as a country across is the law. Now what does the law say in anything is that the law everybody's equal before that law. And why am I focusing on that? Because we want to look at capital. You've asked a very important question in terms of the economy. And there's a reason I'm tying it so that we get we get a full picture to what I'm saying.

[00:24:43]Today, we need a party to help us negotiate at the national level.

[00:24:49]Even if it is not a party that has elected us at the at the at the MP or or or Senate level or governor level but when we come to the national assembly can we have a parliamentary group as the community we must not be confined within a political party per se but can we be uh expansive and liberal in terms of our thinking as a community and we serve at a parliamentary group what we have what we have where honorable I believe server you also were in dual where we can talk as okay now set that aside and come back to the question of law if you look at these other communities all of them those that are progressing there's something fundamental that's working for them and that is land question the biggest challenge we have as the L nation beyond politics or before politics is the land question most of the Lu uh people who are occupying pieces of land today they are maybe the second or third generation of the regional buyer but succession hasn't been done on those pieces of land.

[00:25:54]>> Now why is this important? Because land will then inform our economic question for this reason that for progress you need capital. And for you to get capital the the basic and the biggest capital that anybody can ever have is land. And then this land can then serve as security where you can take a debt to finance a business. Because what we must move from is the question of employment in terms of civil service. We did very well previously but now we must move away from that and enter business. But we can only enter business and compete so that our per capita earning goes up with other community when we secure the legal process of our lands. One, two, in the same question of land, we have the problem of young people leaving home and coming to Nairobi, going to Kisumu, going to Mombasa to look for white collar jobs, but we've left half an acre. We've left two acres. We've left one acre. Renting it out Moshimar at 8,000 shillings in a year, but it could make us over 20,000 in a month if we have scumiki like where I come from. If we have tomato, if we have what I mean, you name it. If we have garden farm, if we take cows and put there. Now that said brings me to the biggest question which is what is the purpose then of having a national political party because yes we will have a political party. Yes we will have appointments, ministers etc. Even now do we have ministers? Yes. Are they helping us? No.

[00:27:22]Will I say why?

[00:27:23]>> Listen to me very carefully.

[00:27:25]>> Today if you look at the question of of of of accessing debt I want to give you a very practical example. Ken.

[00:27:32]>> Yes, please.

[00:27:33]>> There's the advanced coffee sherry what fund I believe you know it.

[00:27:38]>> Just last year 2025 and and this year 226 the treasure released 10 billion shillings for this >> 10 what?

[00:27:45]>> 10 billion 7 billion of the 10 billion has gone to one region. When our son is the minister of finance, when our sugar factories are being leased out, and I'm happy is here, he can say that what I'm saying would have made sense if we went that path.

[00:28:05]Instead of leasing these sugar factories to this private Asians, of course they Kenyans, but now if we're looking at nationalistic uh topic, then we must look at it as a nation.

[00:28:17]If we list these sugar factories partly owned by the counties and partly owned by the the growers farmers association I don't know you call them these farmers who grow sugarcane out >> growers and partly we we even say only 30% is up for grabs by any other investor then the biggest question that these sugar factories were having today is the question of unpaid debts unpaid salaries loans that are beding this the this these sugar factories. If treasury every time we listen to radios, every time we watch TV, the debt for coffee has been has been written off. The debt for tea has been written off. They're even having auctions for their coffee and their te. But our people, our factories are dead. Our son is the minister for finance. He can do something. He's refusing to do something. He can convince the president. He's gone there and he's refusing to do anything about it. Okay? So even if we have a national party that is going to help us negotiate it doesn't matter much what matters much is who do we have sitting there that was my point >> thank you very much uh copo I don't know whether you have a right of reply but let me put the question this way >> you have been a member of parliament so you have been a leader among the law community >> and you have spoken for the community and uh even for the nation Mhm.

[00:29:46]Who speaks for the L as a people is it the and who should >> who is picking for the L and who should if we are to pursue our interest as a community and uh achieve it.

[00:30:09]>> Uh thank you very much uh Martin. what I think and and and I I I have to unfortunately go back a bit and speak about two issues that you asked.

[00:30:21]>> One, why our per capita income is low >> as a community and has gone down has gone down >> and why our education ranking >> has also gone down. I think those are those are very fundamental.

[00:30:38]It's important to appreciate >> that over the years successive governments have embarked on I I would say a deliberate and uh strategic um way of trying to uh trying to um discriminate against the L community.

[00:31:10]>> Mhm.

[00:31:10]>> Undermine the community >> and undermine and of course discriminate against them.

[00:31:15]>> Yeah.

[00:31:16]>> In terms of distribution of uh national resources including education.

[00:31:23]>> Higher education as you are saying you know has got a cost and only those communities that are properly endored will achieve the highest.

[00:31:34]It has got a cost which you which all of it you cannot take to government. At some point uh individuals will have to finance their own education.

[00:31:45]>> So because we have been uh unfairly targeted over the years and the part of the reason is what uh Kennedy was talking about >> that we are a people who believed in the rule of law.

[00:32:03]>> Mhm. in fairness in justice and we project you're going to demonstrate how the laws have been marginalized or discriminated >> I'll come there >> particularly in the sector of education >> no I'll come there >> yes >> you know you cannot divorce education from economic empowerment they they're one and the same thing because one leads to the other >> so um we have fought this government successive government and they have fought us back over the years because we were saying we we want to bring the rule of law, we want to agitate for right, human rights and so on and so forth. So we were pushed to the periphery of uh government and we were told uh by having a particular name yeah you could not exist within the within the confines of of government and therefore enjoy uh services from the government and that led to systematic um degrading in terms of uh how you could access because government is the biggest business partner. Mhm.

[00:33:12]>> Yeah. The government is the biggest employer. If you are out out of uh you fall out of them, then you are completely out. So with the time, our economic growth has slowed down. Our ability to finance our education has gone down. And there that is how we found ourselves where we are today. And that is why currently we we for in myself I'm saying if somehow we have managed to have as a community a working relationship.

[00:33:45]>> Mhm.

[00:33:46]>> Before you go there.

[00:33:49]>> Yes.

[00:33:52]You've made a claim that uh I'm not I didn't hear you land it properly that the community has been marginalized. The community has been u uh I don't know the word you used.

[00:34:12]>> Yes. Marginalized. Yeah.

[00:34:13]>> Marginalized. Yes. discriminated against >> especially in the sector of education until uh we have lost our glory then to where we are today and uh the constitution tried to cure this marginalization by successive regimes and today we have devolution where everybody has been given their resources in our four counties and we are responsible for ECD and vocational training and uh we are people who are gifted in terms of education and skills and uh we don't seem to have taken off in terms of Tibets we don't seem to have taken off in terms of early child education >> and uh we controlling our own resources.

[00:35:15]How do you explain that?

[00:35:16]>> No, me I don't want to talk about uh uh devolution. Actually, I don't want to talk about counties because uh they are an embarrassment.

[00:35:28]>> Counties the way they are currently operating.

[00:35:31]>> No, I I'm bringing that not on education. So that you say law are in charge of their resources to undertake their own education not to be discriminated like have been discriminated by the central government.

[00:35:47]>> Devolution in Kenya that's what I'm saying devolution in Kenya unfortunately is a misnomer that happened.

[00:35:55]>> So then what is the excuse for the L community?

[00:36:00]What I'm saying is that I still believe in the power of the central centralized government or the central government as it were national government to steal steer all the the entire communities to prosperity and that is why I am deliberately uh refusing to talk about counties because they have failed spectacularly in all spheres. actually they are actually salary paying machines.

[00:36:33]>> I'm not getting you uh what I'm saying what I'm not understanding is >> do you have a problem with devolution or do you have a problem with people uh running devolution in our communities?

[00:36:46]>> The problem is with the people not in in in actually in the dark. The problem is with the leaderships that have been put.

[00:36:54]>> No, there are counties that are celebrating.

[00:36:57]>> Maybe maybe one or two maybe one or two.

[00:36:59]Maybe let me let me chime in chairman.

[00:37:02]>> Yes.

[00:37:03]>> Well, I I I do agree with this frustration. Everybody would be frustrated at how some counties are run and generally the the slow pace but also the question of the wage bill v the development budget which I think would be his main focus because wage bill of most counties is about 60% of their income which is worry but the question that should worry us more is not that it is the structure and how we intend to run these counties for example in Kisumu which I happen to have worked in between the time you're in parliament We established there an assurance that for every 4 km rad that you stand even today just stand anywhere and stretch your hand 4 km rad you'll find a health facility that's a WHO standard which was built by the then governor Anguba it was once even ranked as the easy the county to do easiest to do business with it was also once ranked as the county with the best improved uh rural road network.

[00:38:01]Okay, it was working until somebody else came in which is professor and everybody knows that he's he has swept between airport to his office and it ends there.

[00:38:13]Okay, he has forgotten about the rest of the of the county. Now come to Kiamu for example Kimu here all the sub counties today have level four hospitals all built from the ground up. Our counties do not have such facilities. For example, let me go further if you allow.

[00:38:32]>> Yes.

[00:38:33]>> Neri has uh Mal not Maluci has Kinata hospital and it's not within the county but there's something that leadership does level six kinata that has been deferred in L we say >> I don't want you to get lost and run away.

[00:38:49]>> I'm getting lost. There's something I'm doing.

[00:38:50]>> Yes.

[00:38:51]>> Comparative analysis.

[00:38:52]>> Yes.

[00:38:52]>> They have uh Kinata is Nairobi.

[00:38:55]>> Mhm.

[00:38:55]>> But Kinata has a compass in in Yen. Mhm.

[00:38:59]>> We have level six today in Kisum.

[00:39:02]>> Mhm.

[00:39:02]>> All the four lu speaking counties. She would have a compass which would be a minimum of level four which can be specialized. For example, Kisum has the best the biggest eye treatment and referral hospital in Eastern Central Africa. We could specialize because cancer >> in this country is biggest in Luland.

[00:39:23]>> Okay. Now set that aside. counties devolution in structure is very good.

[00:39:29]The intention is very good. Yeah.

[00:39:30]>> What we must look at in the eye and address is where did we lose like region economic block because we were establishing a bank a regional bank.

[00:39:40]This regional bank was going to help us avail capital pull capital and avail it as loans for do business. That is the biggest question. If we address this the source of finance for the locals to do business then we will sort it out properly. But for leadership, we could have the best today in terms of Jared sitting as the governor for Migori. Then tomorrow we have some other fellow who comes there and soils whatever he done like Migori. You can see what's happening there. The governor then but did something that was commendable. But the person that is there look like a joke. You don't understand what's going on in Miguri for example.

[00:40:12]>> But uh you people uh you you you take me around circles and >> no it's it's you who is insisting that you speak in a particular form.

[00:40:22]>> Yes. But what what we are saying is very clear >> because uh >> I know the question that you asked which we I wanted to address but I was saying >> yes >> for that when I'm responding to that question >> I want to leave out the counties deliberately because they have spectacularly failed the nation >> they have deliberately and spectacularly >> failed the nation >> for instance if I may just ask you >> is there any one person who can stand and say they are willing to do any genuine business with the counties. If you are not a relative of the governor anywhere in Kenya in this country, you could go and count up to about three or four counties that have a resemblance of a governance of of of real government. A resemblance of government. All the rest are just >> I've read in the social media that McQueen does not have.

[00:41:16]>> Correct. So you would count and maybe about two three others. The rest are just used for no money. Just just be be deliberate.

[00:41:30]>> Yes.

[00:41:31]>> Uh you see you people introduced in your introductory messages you said that the L community are champions of justice and rule of law.

[00:41:44]And it is in the new community that I think we have witnessed looting and abetted looting of county funds and uh people just loot until they tired and they go home and rest. You know the challenge is this. Let me tell you when we have monopoly what monopoly of political but let me land the question >> right >> as a community.

[00:42:10]>> Mhm.

[00:42:12]Where are we when this kind of injustice being meed on us? Resources meant for our welfare, for our development is being looted by one of our own and he goes home and sleeps well.

[00:42:27]>> Which is what he was trying to respond about monopoly.

[00:42:29]>> Yeah. And and and if you look at the structure of monopoly in any state, in any monopoly attracts impunity because where there's monopoly, there's lack of checks and balances. I remember sitting with Nyangulo immediately after he was kicked out of the office in Kisumu as the speaker and he did ask him why are you fighting Raa for example and did he tell me the questions about the county assembly there are some budgets here that are being passed which have rejected outrightly and they think that I'm doing something wrong so they're putting for me a case uh for the lake lake basin mall but we all know the facts there and what happened now the beauty the past is that that monopoly was there the beauty is that now we're going to a stage where nobody in the next 10 20 years will ever try in Luanza to match us with monopoly.

[00:43:21]It will never happen and I can assure you anybody who tries to be a teen god in Luand now and moving forward will be ashamed at their own altars because the people know what they deserve. They said that when you're in charge when you you know there's a pope you cannot really challenge the pope >> and the beauty is that even the pope has a timeline and now the pope has given way >> yes >> so that the worshippers can relook and evaluate themselves and their intentions and I can say this comfortably that that civil society that we had that justice that we desired the progress that we inhabited and everything it is coming back we still have it it was just dosai for some time because we had to give uh some respect to the pope but it is also by God's grace uh that we are now where we are so moving forward and I can say confidently because I've said it before of all the 23 are there 23 MPs >> yes >> 27 >> 27 if any of them comes back it is not going to and especially within ODM party they're not going to be more than 25 in fact 25 is too much they're not going to be more than Five. Okay. More than five on the ODM ticket. And the people are going to take those positions are people they never imagined. Very new people who are going to challenge them on one question. We are no longer talking about political freedoms. We are there yet.

[00:44:48]Where we talking about is economic progress and most of these MPs from Luansa. I cannot answer that question.

[00:44:54]>> Uh Jared Cop.

[00:44:56]>> Yes.

[00:44:56]uh you you you you you have been an MP and I think uh we need to go beyond the representatives as a community.

[00:45:12]uh we are sitting in time at a very opportune time in history of the community.

[00:45:20]>> Mhm.

[00:45:21]>> That uh we used to have um we we used to have uh we used to be ruled by fiat.

[00:45:34]>> Yes. And today uh there is an opening uh I mean we are liberated by the grace of the lord.

[00:45:44]Isn't it a time to do retrospection as a community so that we can redefine our interest and agenda so that uh we we we we champion a path that can make us deliver on those interests that we shall have refined and defined.

[00:46:14]have because as we speak now I think we are rushing onto the next step but without a mission.

[00:46:25]Whom do we give this responsibility of redefining our interest as a community?

[00:46:34]Thank you. I think uh leadership in communities and L the L nation is not an exception do emerge in the absence of uh rainga leaderships will emerge but I agree with there there's a thin line I'm trying to put here yes >> between political representatives and the community leadership defining their interest.

[00:47:10]I don't know whether that Yes, I I can hear you. But again, it's very very difficult sometimes >> to isolate >> Mhm.

[00:47:19]>> Uh or rather draw that line that the line is almost obscure between political leadership and community leadership. But what I wanted to say is that leaderships will emerge maybe religious leaders maybe political leaders doesn't put the context.

[00:47:32]>> Yes. You see ordinarily the person called MCA, MP and uh probably senator these are all representatives.

[00:47:56]But the person sending them should know what he's sending them for.

[00:48:05]And I'm asking within the community of the lure, who is the custodian of the message that we want to send these people out for?

[00:48:20]Yeah, that's uh that that sounds a bit uh complicated but what I let me just land on the way I was looking at it >> leaderships will emerge from wherever you know there are formal leaderships there are official leaderships there are elected leaders and so on and so forth what should be the main focus of all these forms of leadership is to try to bring the best in terms of uh demands on behalf of the L people. One thing which I want to say that emerged from the political leaderships that have existed in the past is that they among the L leaders themselves. What we what I was talking about systematic uh marginalization of certain individuals or sections also existed.

[00:49:13]You know very well that in Luna you wouldn't freely enjoy your freedom as a politician to contest on any seat and if you are expressing that interest outside ODM. So these are the some of the issues and I think those people who are in relationship be it religious or or or or political or whatever are supposed now to go and start from there and say how can we include how can we be inclusive these people who have been who have been um isolated and for the longest time been marginalized. How do we mainstream them again? Of course, being being marginalized does not mean that you didn't have ideas. You are actually a target for political persecution, but not that you don't have idea. In fact, some of our best brains were the ones who are put aside and marginalized in the in the whole thing. So the first thing should be to look to bend over backwards and bring everyone who has been in leadership or who is in leadership together so that we chat a way forward for the community together.

[00:50:31]If we don't start from there I am afraid it will still be very very complicated for the L nation. Oh, just hold on. Let me bring in uh chairman >> back to the Ford.

[00:50:45]>> Chairman Kenobua.

[00:50:46]>> Yes, please.

[00:50:47]>> You have been in politics, >> particularly as a son of Lu community >> and uh you also know the Lu history.

[00:50:56]>> Let me just limit it to postindependence. M >> uh after independence, the Lu were able to elect very very strong and credible people >> until 1988 when Mulongo came.

[00:51:13]>> But even then we still did fairly well.

[00:51:16]Yeah.

[00:51:16]>> M >> after multi-arty came >> uh we thought we moved out from single party dictatorship but uh a multi-party dictatorship again emerged.

[00:51:32]>> Would you say that uh political party has been the undoing of the well-being of the law community?

[00:51:43]uh you know the way the world communities are structured >> it is said that there must be something that provokes an evolution.

[00:52:00]>> Mhm.

[00:52:02]If you look at uh extremism, if you look at terrorism, some level of oppression, some level of marginalization pushes sections of communities to address such situations.

[00:52:24]>> Mhm.

[00:52:26]>> If you look at our modern politics, The way a section quite no somebody said the majority will have their way and the minority must have their say.

[00:52:42]Quite a number of learned very credible leaders in u are outside leadership. Why? Because at some point like you said colonialism has got different faces.

[00:53:02]Neoc colonialism has got a different face.

[00:53:06]At independent we had an oppressor called the white man.

[00:53:13]>> After independence we had another oppressor called the the liu twoan products. Yeah.

[00:53:24]>> Then at at when we took over, we had another face of another operation that led to the exit of of many uh many opinions coming up and and and and we we all saw people going outside the country uh because of of of you know their lives were in danger.

[00:53:51]When we repeat section 2A in 1991, 1992 elections, you understand? We thought that now when that exceeded, we thought this thing is over. Then it evolved with another face.

[00:54:16]Then we heard Moy said and there was also another say that came that if you want to get a L you you you you get another L with you know some coins and you know these are very sad realities that the victim in all this is the common man.

[00:54:36]Sadly it is the same common man that votes.

[00:54:42]My biggest prayer How can we have a radical change? How can we have a public participation by the people that vote? Because there's nobody who will ever force himself and declare himself and swear in himself as a leader.

[00:55:03]Somebody must push someone from Nairobi for someone to get elected in container.

[00:55:12]For someone to get elected in Wanging where I come from, somebody must push.

[00:55:18]But it requires participation of the grassroot communities.

[00:55:25]Somebody, you know, the recent times the oppression has evolved.

[00:55:33]Somebody by choice decided to create an imag an an imaginary enemy to the community that I need to come and help me fight this imaginary enemy. Our biggest enemy is univilized leadership.

[00:56:00]>> IBS enemy is ending up with leaders who are only answerable to one principle.

[00:56:06]>> We need to elect leaders who are answerable to the electorate, the common man. Now, how do we do this? I had my brother saying this.

[00:56:16]>> Yes.

[00:56:16]>> How do we do this? We must first look at our constitution. It is very clear. Our constitution does not discriminate or does not isolate any region to any political party or to any person that this region like is it belongs to UDA or ODM.

[00:56:43]The moment we can overcome that and look at what does the constitution say. We have a social multi-arty democracy. Can we have what does the constitution say when you want to get elected as an MCA?

[00:56:57]It says ABCD. Do you qualify?

[00:57:00]When you want to get elected as a governor, what does the constitution say? Do you qualify?

[00:57:06]once and there are various state agencies that vets people before they are they appear in the ballot.

[00:57:16]When that happens, let us leave the mandate of electing leaders at the grassroot level with the people. Let the people decide. When the people decides without weeping emotions, without looking at communities like this is this guy does not come from Karachu.

[00:57:43]Yeah. This guy, he comes from Suba but he can be a good governor for Homa.

[00:57:49]>> You understand? This guy just migrated.

[00:57:52]He could be possibly a kissi >> who was born in Homa town in Canada. He grew up there. You understand? But he stands for what affects the common people in he can lead people to where we need. If we can get that right, we will fix L nation. There's no way we will fix Kenya.

[00:58:14]>> Mhm. When social multi- party democracy ends in a >> it ends in in in in in Mo it social marty democracies must go all the way to it must all go all the way to it must go the way to se you understand when we have that we will have good leaders leaders who are accountable that is when we will change >> the the the econom eomic challenges that we have as a community. That is when we will be genuine, you understand, to take the leadership of the nation accounted because we are not honest. Thank you very much. Uh we must be running out of time here.

[00:59:02]>> Yeah, you are a young man.

[00:59:07]Today is very hard to engage young people because uh you try to engage them they say >> how how should we re-engineer our politics as a community now that we are approaching 2027.

[00:59:37]so that we get the best of it both at the local level, county levels and at the national level.

[00:59:51]Uh given that um we today uh are uh leaderless How do we re-engineer this from your perspective as a young man?

[01:00:13]>> Yeah, I'm I'm happy this question.

[01:00:14]>> And uh what I wanted to crown it up with is >> That's right.

[01:00:20]Democracy is a very highly priced uh concept and I'm not sure if democracy gives us the best for our communities. So how do we engineer against that background?

[01:00:38]>> Now um it's it's it's unfortunate that democracy is what we have. It's unfortunate, very unfortunate because in communities, even in in the traditional African communities, we used to have the kings, the chiefs who then took the responsibility of of a community in terms of their aspirations, their interests. We had we can remember what he did for the game. I mean, we had the one from we know what he did for every place had their own. But now democracy, does it give us the best leaders that we need to have? Yes and no. Yes, because every human being has an equal share in terms of deciding who represents them best. And so if you look at the history of politics and understand specifically Socrates in terms of how he defines politics, he sees politics as a manifestation of our ambitions but also infallibilities. I'll choose Moshimi Moindo because Moshimogo can be as violent as I am or Moshimogindo is also at the same time a mentor. I look at him and I see what I want to be and I believe he can take me to where I want to go. So I'll vote for him. So now in 2027 the lun nation sits at a crossroad in terms of choice but it's beautiful because it's a transition period and this transition period there's going to be pain a lot of it because the L nation must undergo a rebirth first at the elective positions MCA uh MPs senators women rep etc is going to be very painful uh because the reality is going to dawn on the the incumbents a lot of that they are so far away from the people. I want you to watch carefully 27 elections that the UDA side is most probably going to have so many of their MPs and MCS come back to power as compared to the ODM side. For this reason that Luyanza with their dominant party called ODM has an average age of 57 for the representatives.

[01:02:46]The UDA side has an average age of 32 to 37 which is very interesting. What does this mean? That ODM has a very huge disconnect from the because 75% of the population is under the age of 35 and that is also true for us in Yanza. is also true for caring which means these representatives were not actually the people's these were the parties representatives and it's fine because the party conitution allows direct nomination cooker in the party etc for them to get whatever they have but is going to be different very different but let me tie that to a question you're asking here honorable Jared >> you asked that how how then do we have the leadership uh question filled and amplify you to two or two or there out where we had Anyongo running under SDP, we had Orurango of course with his own staff running and we have Raa also charging on his own path and many other LU leaders running their own races and they did agree including Opar who are not really L but these consortium did agree because I remember Farim talking about it that they sat down and said all of us are bullies and if we fight each other we all of of us may lose. How about we agree in a pecking order and grant this leadership to one of us? And they granted Roinga this leadership because it was the most emergent of them all so that they could drive the interest of the committee. And you saw it was very representative up to 2012.

[01:04:24]From 2012 there was you know once you're a deity for quite some time some mistake comes to happen. You imagine you are immortal and then some mistakes start happening >> and we saw those mistakes happen from 2013. We all know what what happened in the nominations of 2013, 2017, 2022 because there was that daty status. You can't challenge a daty and disabil a Chinese uh communist party. I know it is not democratic but is the structure serving them? Yes. Must we be communist?

[01:05:04]No. But can we copy? Yes. Lew have something called so we want from China that as they are today none of these leaders in ODM can single-handedly punish and reward anybody in ODM.

[01:05:21]So there's a battle of egos and what must be done? People must agree that hey let's go by the structure. Let's have a representation. Let's have a board, okay? Or a council sort of that we have a representation from the MCAs, four uh counties. We have one representative from each county assembly which could be the speakers.

[01:05:43]>> Okay. Let's have a representation of all the MPs because we can't have all the MC's but we can have all the MPs represented at the board. Okay. and each of the governors becomes an equal cochair on a rotational basis that when there's an issue affecting Lu then they can speak and the and and and the senators as well. Now what will this help? will have equality.

[01:06:11]All these leaders will be looking at each other that they're serving not only their interest but the interest of the community.

[01:06:18]>> But you cannot be both the umpire >> Yes.

[01:06:23]>> and the executor.

[01:06:24]>> Of course you can't.

[01:06:25]>> And that is why >> Yes. So if you bring in the speakers and the governors to decide and execute >> No, it's not. I think that's why you're getting me wrong. It's not execution >> and it's not it is political leadership.

[01:06:41]>> Yes.

[01:06:41]>> Where we sit and talk.

[01:06:42]>> Yeah.

[01:06:43]>> Because l talk and talking is what makes the community. So can we have a place where we meet as a family and ask ourselves without what I call useless restrictions of who is superior to who? Can we have a place where we can talk informally and agree on our issues?

[01:07:02]>> The superiority and inferiority is a political construct. It's a political construct. But can we agree on the basics? Like for example, look at the costians. They've demonstrated this to us. The other day they met the governors, the the the speaker of the of of the of the Senate, uh the minister Joho and all the MPs. met not as who is bigger than who but as coasters yesterday were meeting and especially Kakamega and it was chaired by our own you saw LC Mu saw Nabira you saw Governor Fernandez brother sitting together not because somebody superior than the other but especially because Kakamega has the Wanga language which is the largest speaking Lya sub dialect. So can the L also sit? Yes, we can.

[01:07:58]>> I think I I I almost agreed with you when you try to borrow from China.

[01:08:02]>> Yes.

[01:08:03]>> And um but now when you conflate it with the political class here deciding on behalf of the community, you know how partisan politicians are. They will never never decouple their interest from the interest of the community. And that's the challenge I'm seeing.

[01:08:22]>> Let me just say this. The beauty is that we and I want you to wake up to this fact that devolution altered politics in Kenya forever.

[01:08:32]>> Correct.

[01:08:33]>> Until the day we'll do away with revolution. We've taken politics back to the world. Okay. And this then calls for accountability. We had a demigod. That's the truth. Is no more this political interest. You will keep quiet about it as as MPs and as you will keep quiet about it because the people will storm those meetings and the con unfortunately allows them in chapter one that all power belong to the people. How it is implemented or how it is worked on nobody knows but it is guarant >> that's the point I was trying to make that power is with the people.

[01:09:07]>> If we go back to the traditional construction of power >> Yes.

[01:09:11]>> where the people are supreme.

[01:09:14]>> Yes.

[01:09:16]And uh we obey >> our traditional laws. Yes.

[01:09:21]>> More than we obey the national laws because today >> as a community we don't obey any law.

[01:09:26]Not the national law, not the traditional law >> because we're transacting.

[01:09:30]>> We are transacting without consequence.

[01:09:33]>> Exactly. And now where we are going now, it's not going to be transaction. You have to lead. If you can't lead, people will get you out of that place because they owe you no apology and they're not going to report to any god.

[01:09:43]>> Point taken. And uh that's where I want you to pick up from uh Jared.

[01:09:47]>> Yeah.

[01:09:49]>> How do we re-engineer our politics so that we run away from this system whereby it was the party deciding for us so that we come back to the original setup where it was the people deciding who their representatives are if not their leaders.

[01:10:09]>> People you know there was an an interesting philosopher who said that we should not struggle to speak for the common man. Yes. Because there's nothing like common man. When the common man is oppressed too hard, >> they will decide to rise up on their own. And that time has arrived >> in >> you will see this time that people will out of their own accord this year next year will vote in leaders without being coerced to face particular parties because there is what do I say somebody calls it a renaissance there's a a new awakening >> renissance >> yes among >> the the l populations So you will see it's something that may sound very abstract now but you're going to see it in the next election because you can only chaper on people for some time but not forever and that reawakening has arrived now because people also have seen that if you elect a leader because he has been you have been told to do so by superior powers then the allegiance of this leader the accountability of this leader is not to the people but to the appointing authority.

[01:11:30]>> So that you know I I interact a lot with the with the people on the ground being a politician and I know next year will be the turning point.

[01:11:45]>> Uh I don't I don't just want a turning point. I would love to see a turning point to a destination a desired destination. the destination >> and and and I want to put to your question.

[01:11:57]>> Yes.

[01:12:01]>> As we approach a turning point, what and I mean what should inform where we turn to left or right? What should inform the community direction that they're going to turn to during this turning point? What should inform that?

[01:12:22]The turning point because of what honorable Bua had referred to as a long time of operation. The turning point will be a little bit chaotic for the first time, but it will move force. It will it will crystallize >> going forward. But what I know is that is that the general thinking of the L community is that they have to align themselves with winning side that will form government so that they continue to better their lot going into the future. And for now the conversation around on the ground is that they are going to support one William Samoy R to be president of the of the country come next year.

[01:13:11]>> Yes. But just to simplify the question I asked >> what is informing that for what reason are we going to support President R? First president R has been I would say available >> Mhm. for the people of the L nation from the time he was elected even before the mainstream uh political party in the region started supporting him. Number two, he has demonstrated in word and indeed that he is committed to changing the narrative in Land in terms of availing develop development opportunities to that future. And uh those are some of the reasons they site as being prepared to support and work with this government.

[01:13:59]>> Thank you very much. Uh Jakoma, finally, >> yes.

[01:14:04]>> What are we saying?

[01:14:06]uh how are we uh guiding our people >> into the next dispensation after the demise of the late Raa Minga? How are we guiding our people into the future for their benefit both at national level and at the county level?

[01:14:31]>> Acceptance.

[01:14:32]How can we deal with acceptance?

[01:14:35]uh the loss of uh it it begins with acceptance that uh M did so much for the L community for the republic of Kenya for the continent of Africa um but you know sadly uh there's a situation emotional situation in Land uh including leaders we have not accepted that Baba is has arrested and that's a big challenge quite a number of us there is that uh uh you know we we we we think that Baba possibly has gone to Dubai will come you know next weekend next weekend and uh you know it's a satisfaction for us so we are a community that is falling into uh depression >> and uh and uh and you know mental wellness of any community >> is very important for productivity of of an individual and any community there's what we call happiness index.

[01:15:42]>> Mhm.

[01:15:42]>> When happiness index is violated then productivity individually and collectively is is nearly nil. So as a people number one we must deal with acceptance blue community. Baba is not there and there must be a continued And we have to stabilize the shift. The people, the leaders in Land, those elected who are privileged to have been elected, I respect you all. They got elected.

[01:16:15]We must first call the shots that we have emerging leaders. We we have other voices in the L nation. We have scenarios of 2024 where there's a there's a a silent boiling group called the Gen Z.

[01:16:36]These people are there and they can surprise us. We must deal with situations at hand. Number one, acceptance. Ra is not there. There can never be a lacuna. We must fill in the gaps. these gaps. There are other voices around us. When you want to play Raa with this scenario, then you're getting it wrong. There's never another Raa.

[01:17:03]>> Mhm.

[01:17:04]>> My brother here said that uh you know politics is very spiritual.

[01:17:10]>> And uh the politics of Lu nation is dominated by spirituality.

[01:17:15]We call it jug. We say the L leader will emerge.

[01:17:21]But it is going to be spiritual and the spirits at at some point it will not be forced on people. The L nexta will just naturally come when the right time comes because there can never be a lacuna. How do we move forward as a community? We must first accept that we cannot replace now.

[01:17:45]>> Correct.

[01:17:46]>> How do we do this? We must hold hands jointly that we are all equal players.

[01:17:53]>> You understand? Once we understand and accept that the few people who are privileged to be to to you know to call shots now can we go the coastal way.

[01:18:05]>> Mhm. Like he said >> the coastal leaders are respective of their political persuation >> whether ODM or Kenya >> Yeah. They came together and they're shaping up the way for cost as the chair.

[01:18:31]>> You understand? We have a sitting over >> at Wanga's home's home's home. Your home's home.

[01:18:41]>> You understand?

[01:18:42]>> Even a neutral ground.

[01:18:43]>> Even a neutral ground. Let us come to Nairobi. Let us go to Nasha. You understand?

[01:18:48]>> Very neutral and talk about you know first let us agree that we are endangered as a community. The biggest enemy is the biggest enemy is someone who has isolated our community from all infrastructures of growth. education, >> economic, politically, >> all these infrastructures, we've been pushed aside. We are marginalized. We are profiled as a community. Can we first have that lens that our enemy is not available?

[01:19:23]>> Correct.

[01:19:23]>> Our enemy is someone who looks at us with our numbers, with our community strength and pushes us aside. Can we hold hands together without a sitting we must push forward otherwise >> like you said >> like you said there's going to be tensions in 2027 >> extreme >> extreme if we do not fix ourselves time will fix all of us thank you very much chairman and I think that's a good place to end it Mhm.

[01:20:00]>> And my prayer is before the next L leader emerges, let the L agenda emerge so that we can implement it at the national and at the county level. This was brought to you by Red Ring TV channel and courtesy of the technical team Jamalud Wagol Errol Brian. Thank you very much for making this happen.

[01:20:26]Has been your host. Until next time, make sure you subscribe Red TV channel.