"The Holy Experiment" A Glenn Rawson Story

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:15]Hello everyone. Welcome tonight. It's Sunday night. It's 8:00 May 3rd and I'm Glenn Rosson. Welcome and thank you for joining me for this fireside. Now, a couple of announcements before. Like I said last week, uh I was in uh California on the beach near Oceanside and uh today I'm at home. Next week we'll be on tour and we'll be out in Philadelphia on a fun for less church history trip and I'll bring you more from there when we get there. Now there is coming up a couple of tours I wanted to make you aware of just in case you were interested. On the 6th of July, we'll be leaving out here out of Salt Lake on a luxury coach for the Old West and Cowboy Tour. Now, I've talked about this before, but as you can see behind me, uh I've always had a fascination for the cowboy, all the iterations of the cowboy and for the Old West and the settlement of the West and how that's had such a strong influence on our culture. This tour will go all the way from Salt Lake up through Jackson Hole and Yellowstone across Wyoming uh Devil's Tower on up to uh to uh Mount Rushmore and Crazy Horse and then back down and it'll be a fun fun tour and uh so much to talk about with the Old West and the American Cowboy. So, if you're interested in going, two ways you can get information. You can go to tettonstagelines.com or you can call Dennis who's going to be on the tour with me. 801-541-9760.

[00:02:04]Again, his number that's Dennis at 801541-9760.

[00:02:10]And then in addition to that, on the 27th of May, which is just later this month, we still have some seats open for the Chimney Rock and Pioneer Trail Tour.

[00:02:24]We'll go out into Nebraska and work our way back along the Pioneer Trail. That's the same that's only like a a 4-day tour. And so it's very inexpensive.

[00:02:38]condenses the trail. A lot of stories, a lot of places. If you want to go tetonstagelines.com or call Dennis 8015419760.

[00:02:51]Okay. Now, may I ask for your prayers today as I share five brand new stories.

[00:02:58]First one, William was born on Tower Hill in London, England, the son of a prominent and wealthy English admiral in 1644.

[00:03:12]He was a boy born to privilege. In 1659, because of the English Civil War, his family was exiled to Ireland. Now, it was here that Williams father invited Thomas Low, an itinerant preacher in a rebellious English sect, into their home. Well, when Low preached that all men are born with an inner light that connects them to God and to which they must answer only to him, that in other words, the soul is free. Well, William believed him. He would later say, quote, "The Lord visited me and gave me divine impressions of himself."

[00:03:59]By 1660, his family returned to England, and William's father played a significant role in restoring Charles II to the throne of England. Well, in 1666, William went to Oxford to to school and he was enrolled at Christ Church College. However, to the dismay of his father, William became involved in protests against the Church of England.

[00:04:28]It was Williams firm belief that the governments had no right to to sponsor state religion can control forms of worship or dictate the conscience.

[00:04:41]For this rebellious stand, William was expelled from Oxford and his father was furious. According to one account, they actually got into a fight and he beat him with his cane.

[00:04:56]Well, notwithstanding William's social standing and prominent family, William rejected all of that for the sake of conscience. He stood alone. In 1668, he joined a radical, heretical religious movement of the time and was jailed for blasphemy.

[00:05:19]That being he only spoke his mind. Six times William would be sent to prison for teaching that governments had no right to dictate forms of worship or control the conscience. Church and state must be separate. At least one of those imprisonments would be at the Tower of London, not too far from where he was born. He once wrote, quote, "My prison shall be my grave before I will budge a jot, for I owe my conscience to no mortal man." Period. He was something of a rebel.

[00:05:59]Well, his stance on conscience cost him his social standing, his good name, and even his family. His father banished him. In 1672, William was again in prison, New Gate Prison in London, and received word that his father was dying.

[00:06:18]Both men wanted to make things right.

[00:06:21]And so, notwithstanding Williams protests, his father purchased his freedom, bailed him out of jail. By now, William's father had had gained some respect for William's principles, telling him in his last days, "Let nothing in this world tempt you to wrong your conscience." End of quote. As a final act of kindness to his son, William's father wrote to the future king of England asking for his son to be protected by the crown. Well, that request was granted.

[00:07:01]William's father passed away and William was now a wealthy man. Nevertheless, he continued his labors for religious tolerance and freedom across Europe. His people were being persecuted and killed and William could not have it. He came up with a novel idea.

[00:07:25]How about a mass migration of religious dissident where to America?

[00:07:35]Let's send all these people king that you don't like. Let's send them to America.

[00:07:40]New land, open country. Get rid of them.

[00:07:44]And when the idea was presented to King Charles, he liked it. And in 1681, he gave William a grant of land on which to do exactly what he wanted. In 1682, William came to see that new land. He landed on the west bank of the Delaware River. Now unlike many colonists who would come to America later, William purchased the land after fair negotiations with the Lenipy tribe of Indians and bought the land and from there he set out to design a city and a colony unlike any other in America.

[00:08:29]It would be based on religious freedom and tolerance and all men are welcome.

[00:08:37]He would call it his holy experiment because all men of any race or religion would be welcome and they would be free to govern themselves according as their conscience moved them. William stood on the river, planned and envisioned a beautiful city, open and green with wide streets and a healthy environment. And he named that city Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love.

[00:09:11]In the years that would follow, William's colony would become the largest and most prosperous melting pot of humanity in the new world. William had wanted to call it New Wales, but the king insisted that it be named for William, and thus it came to be called Pennsylvania or Penn's Woods.

[00:09:37]The dissident son who gave all for the cross of Christ was yes, William Penn.

[00:09:46]Today his statue stands symbolically high at top city hall watching over the city of brotherly love.

[00:09:57]Now what was it that was Williams holy experiment as he called it? It's this that all men are created equal. That they are answerable to their God for their conscience and to no one else. and that they are capable of governing themselves without the dictators and monarchs of the world.

[00:10:24]Because of those principles, Philadelphia was the largest city in the United States at the time of its formation. It's no accident that the United States of America, what would later be called the Grand Experiment, well, it was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

[00:10:44]Williams Holy Experiment. And you know what?

[00:10:49]William was right. William Penn.

[00:10:54]Next story.

[00:11:01]George Prince was born in England in 1815.

[00:11:06]In 1837, he married Sophia Bowman. Then in 1841, life changed dramatically.

[00:11:14]Queen Victoria was offering large tracks of land in the English colony of South Africa to all who would go and settle.

[00:11:25]George and Sophia Prince took the offer and settled on the Orange River near the Cape of Good Hope.

[00:11:33]Years passed and one day, George was returning from a journey delivering fruit with his son. According to the family records, quote, "One evening at the end of a hard day's travel, as he was making his rounds to see that everything was all right for the night, someone called him by the name of George.

[00:11:55]He turned and beheld a personage clothed in a long white robe who told him that the gospel had been restored and would be brought to him by two men, warning him to heed their teachings and accept them. He was told that he would know the men immediately upon seeing them. The gathering of Israel was also explained to him and urged that it be should be done speedily lest part of his family be left behind. End of quote. Well, George, as you can imagine, shared that dream with his family. His wife remarked, "You are as visionary as Abraham of old, George." Well, years passed and one day their son Billy was outside playing when he saw two men coming up the path toward the house. He recognized them from his father's description. It was them, and they were here. Finally, they were the same men to the most minute detail of dress and clothing. Billy lost no time making for the house to acquaint his father with their coming. George arose and announced to his wife Sarah, "These are the two men." And he went forward to greet the servants of God.

[00:13:18]Well, the Prince family was baptized February 11th, 855, some of the first converts in South Africa. In 1860, the father, the mother, and eight children journeyed from South Africa to America aboard the ship Alacrity.

[00:13:39]It is said that when George Prince looked upon the Salt Lake Valley for the first time, he missed the lush jungles of South Africa and commented to his wife, "I wish we were back in Africa."

[00:13:54]Nevertheless, Prince family didn't turn around.

[00:13:58]They went on eventually settling in southern Utah and serving church and community faithfully for the rest of their days. In 1879, George called all his family to the temple. In short, St. George. They all came and they were all sealed as a family. George Prince passed away January 22nd, 1905 at the age of 90.

[00:14:28]The gathering of Israel is the most important work of our time. By the most miraculous and various means, the Lord has whispered to, prepared, and gathered his elect from the most remote parts of the earth. And they have come and they're still coming. I believe that when the curtain is rolled back and we are able to see clearly, the gathering of Israel from all corners of the earth is going to stand on par as miraculous and as marvelous an event as Moses leading the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground. Indeed, it has been likened to the same thing.

[00:15:13]Next story.

[00:15:16]Elizabeth Hate was born April 24th, 1772 in Duchess County, New York into a deeply religious and patriotic family of Quakers.

[00:15:28]She grew up to love God and country.

[00:15:32]November 23rd, 1789, when Elizabeth was 17 years old, she married Jeremiah Hatch, who was also a Quaker and who had served in the American Revolution.

[00:15:43]Because of Jeremiah's service, he was granted 1,200 acres of land in Vermont to homestead. They did. They prospered.

[00:15:53]And Jeremiah even served as a community civil servant. However, for Elizabeth, those were difficult times. She could not bear a child. According to family records, she b she gave birth to at least four children who died immediately thereafter. And some say there might have been even more. Finally, like Hannah of old, Elizabeth went to the Lord in prayer and asked for a son who would live. And if she would receive him, she would dedicate that son to the Lord. And thus it was that on December 2nd, 1798, Hezekiah Hatch was born and lived.

[00:16:41]Elizabeth did her best to honor her promise in bringing her children up in the Lord. One of her grandsons, Lorenzo Hill Hatch, wrote of her, quote, "She was well-versed in the Holy Bible. She would call on me to read while she worked, and she would correct any mistakes I made. The Bible was an open book to her." End of quote. According to family records, one day in 1840, Hezekiah, now 42 years old, walked into the town of Bristol, Vermont, where he two Latter-day Saint missionaries teaching the restored gospel. Well, he returned with that message to his family. Elizabeth and Jeremiah, his parents, believed the message and were determined to get baptized.

[00:17:33]Family records say, quote, "It was a cold Vermont day. A saw was needed to cut a hole in the river big enough for them to be baptized by immersion."

[00:17:43]Others of their relatives also believed and were baptized. Elizabeth was 68 years old and Jeremiah was 74 when they accepted the gospel. Elizabeth had been a at her baptism for 13 years, walking with crutches, but she insisted that she could only be baptized, she would be healed. Her grandson, Lorenzo, wrote, "When she came up out of the water, she was healed and never used her crutches again." End of quote.

[00:18:20]In 1842, at the call to gather, Elizabeth and Jeremiah left everything behind. Farm, family, home, security, comfort. They gave it all up and they moved to Nauvoo where they would meet the prophet Joseph Smith and receive their temple blessings.

[00:18:41]By the fall of 1846, Elizabeth and Jeremiah were of frail health.

[00:18:48]Most of the saints had left Nauvoo. Only the poor remained. Finally, the Hatch family, their horses were stolen, and with only a moment's notice, the two aged saints were forced out of Nauvoo and to cross the river into Iowa, where they depended on friends and family to help them along. It was a time of much suffering. They were actually there and saw for themselves the miracle of the quail on the west bank of the Mississippi.

[00:19:24]By December 1847, Elizabeth and her family had made it to winter quarters. A family record says, quote, "A few days later, December 15th, 1847, Elizabeth died at the temporary home of her son, Josephus at the age of 75.

[00:19:47]I don't know if you've ever been to that humble, peaceful, beautiful little cemetery above the Winter Quarters Temple, but among those who are there is Elizabeth Hatch.

[00:20:02]This is all those saints who in exile lost their lives because of hunger, exposure, and persecution.

[00:20:11]Her earthly body rests in that beautiful place in grave number 278.

[00:20:19]Our heavenly father as part of his plan of happiness sends us to this beautiful earth and blesses us abundantly with the good things of this world. And after giving us everything and so much, he asks if we were are willing to give it all up for him.

[00:20:40]the good things of a better world.

[00:20:45]So is the law of sacrifice and so it will always be.

[00:20:54]Let's take a break.

[00:20:57]How are you?

[00:21:01]I hope you are well.

[00:21:05]One more tour to let you know.

[00:21:08]How about coming with me on the 4th of June as we go on a temple pioneer tabernacle tour of Utah. We'll do Logan.

[00:21:21]We'll talk about the temple in Salt Lake. We'll go to the temple in Provo, in Manti, and in St. George. four days of just temple temple doctrine and the tabernacles of the pioneers. If you'd like to come with me on that short holy tour June 4th through the 6th this year, call Dennis at 801-541-9760 or go to tetonstagelines.com.

[00:21:55]All right. Now, well, obviously you'll be able to understand why I tell you this story, but there's a big there's a bigger reason.

[00:22:04]When the Lord at the opening of this dispensation revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith these words, listen carefully.

[00:22:13]Behold, I am God and have spoken it.

[00:22:18]These commandments are of me, meaning the Doctrine and Covenants. These commandments are of me and were given unto my servants in their weakness after the manner of their language that they might come to understanding. Doctrine and Covenants 124. Well, among other things, I have learned that the Lord communicates to us by the means and the language we best understand and the way he brings one man to understand him would be utterly foreign and strange to another.

[00:22:51]But the Lord loves us enough to talk to us in a way we get it. So with that in mind, I share the following as an example. This story was originally told by BYU professor Leon Hartzhorn.

[00:23:08]He said, quote, "My father was a good man. He took good care of my mother for numerous years while she was ill before she passed away. He taught his children to be honest and upright. He always paid his tithing, but he did not attend church. My father had worked in the mines much of his life in an environment that did not usually invite the spirit of God. And perhaps for this reason, he didn't think that he could be fully active and enjoy the full blessings of activity in the gospel.

[00:23:40]Brother Hartzorn went on to say, 'When I'd been married two or three years, I return I returned to my father's home for a visit. As we sat down together, he said to me, "Son, I've had a dream.

[00:23:54]I dreamed I was standing on the edge of a cliff and the Savior came riding towards me on a horse. He had a rope tied to the saddle and wrapped around the saddle horn. He reached the rope out to me and he said, "Bob, I want you to lower me and my horse down this cliff." I replied that this was impossible. There was no way one man could lower the weight of a horse and rider down a cliff. He responded, "Bob, lower me and my horse down the cliff."

[00:24:33]So I took the end of the rope and lowered them down the cliff. To my surprise, it was not difficult at all.

[00:24:42]When the horse and rider arrived at the bottom of the cliff, he looked up and said, "Bob, drop the rope." I dropped it and he wound it around the saddle horn again. Then looking up at me from the bottom of the cliff, he said simply, "Bob, it's just that easy for you to live my commandments if you will try."

[00:25:05]Brother Hartzorn concluded, "It was a lesson my father could understand, a lesson in his own language of horses, riders, saddles, and ropes. Thereafter, he would try whatever he was asked to do in the church and was very active during the last 25 years of his life. End of quote.

[00:25:29]I love the Lord who loves us individually, one by one, and cares enough to come after us and save us the same way any way necessary.

[00:25:48]Next story.

[00:25:51]In June 1846, when President Brigham Young called for men to join the Mormon battalion, there were two brothers that volunteered, Noah and John Brimhall.

[00:26:04]However, when the examinations were made, John was accepted into service.

[00:26:09]But Noah was turned away, probably because he was ill with malaria, fever, and illness. Well, as his brother John marched away with the Mormon battalion, Noah took up a different service for the Mormon battalion. I quote from his own account. quote, "I stayed with the church in Council Bluffs and assisted to build houses for the 300 helpless women and children who were left exposed to the elements without shelter on the planes, their husbands and fathers in the army. With the help of the sisters and about five men and boys, it took us two months or more to finish the job of building houses. But the Lord took care of his saints and they were all sheltered from the storms and cold of winter. End of quote.

[00:27:04]And one more thing of note, when 20-year-old Noah performed this remarkable service for the Latter-day Saint volunteers of the Mormon Battalion, he was not even a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He would be baptized a year later in 1847.

[00:27:26]Now, many years later, Noah Brimhall and others were called to lead a group of Latter-day Saints down into Arizona and establish a colony. Noah was evidently called to lead the group of five families on a very long journey.

[00:27:45]In October 1877, Noah and family set out from Oxford, Idaho. The following is taken from the account of Lahi Brimhall, Noah's daughter. she said. The company toiled patiently 700 miles over hills, through deep gullies, over boulders, and through tall slapping brush, and over miles of desert and cactus beds. The winter overtook us, and for days we traveled through snow.

[00:28:20]They finally reached the Colorado River at Lee's Ferry, where they found the river flowing with ice. They couldn't go across. A man named Johnson, who was in charge of the ferry, told the immigrants they would need to stay there for at least a week for the river to clear.

[00:28:38]Lahy said, "A week of camping in the snow for ourselves or and our stock was too long." The men talked it over and told Mr. Johnson that they would pray for the ice to thicken so that they could cross in the morning and be on their way.

[00:28:55]The big Colorado doesn't freeze over and has never been crossed that way, insisted Mr. Johnson, the fairy keeper.

[00:29:06]Well, that night, according to the account, Noah and the members of his company prayed in faith that the Lord would open the way for them to cross that river and fulfill the call that they had been given. The next morning, before dawn, Noah and the men went to the river and discovered that indeed it had frozen over.

[00:29:31]"The Lord is on our side. We shall cross over safely," shouted Noah Brimhall.

[00:29:39]They unloaded the wagons, cut timber, made sleds, and before the sun rose, they were sledding their belongings across the frozen river. It took more doing, but they finally managed to get all their animals across the river as well. Lahi said, quote, "Next, the white hooded wagons moved slowly across the ice. One by one, they landed safely. The last team had just stepped onto the firm ground when a breaking sound was heard and the hind wheels of the wagon went down, meaning dropped through the ice.

[00:30:16]But the faithful team pulled it ashore.

[00:30:19]Those pioneers went on their way singing praises to the Lord who had truly been with them. End of quote.

[00:30:27]Brothers and sisters, that's faith on the move.

[00:30:32]Faith is the moving cause of all action.

[00:30:35]It's not a feeling. It's a decision.

[00:30:39]As children of God and disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, faith means turning to him for help when we're faced with obstacles and challenges we can't overcome.

[00:30:51]And by the way, Noah's daughter, Lahi, concluded, quote, "This was the first and last time that the Colorado River had been crossed at that place on the ice."

[00:31:06]End of quote.

[00:31:10]June 7th, 1776.

[00:31:15]Sometime in the morning or early afternoon of that date, Richard Henry Lee of Virginia stood up in the assembly of the Second Continental Congress in Philadelphia and proposed a resolution destined to change the known world. He said on his feet, quote, "Resolved that these United colonies are and of a right ought to be free and independent states, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved." End of quote.

[00:31:58]Now, Richard Henry Lee was chosen to declare the resolution because he was a Virginia with a reputation for adamantly opposing British oppression. He was a man of considerable military experience and a master horseman. He was also known to be a man of honor, integrity, and persuasive and a persuasive advocate of American independence and unity. Indeed, as to the as to unifying the colonies, the resolution went on to say that a plan of confederation be prepared and transmitted to the respective colonies for their consideration and approbation.

[00:32:38]End of quote. This was the first clear and public step toward independence.

[00:32:47]And not only was Lee placing his life and his property on the line by proposing it, but so too would every delegate or citizen across the colonies that supported it. Was too radical for some, and therefore the resolution was tabled for later consideration on July 2nd, 1776.

[00:33:09]But in the meantime, a committee of five was formed to write a proposed declaration of independence just in case they needed it. Well, that resolution caught the attention not only of the colonial populace, but also of such world powers as France and Spain, who wanted to see England put in her place and her power diminished.

[00:33:35]The Lee resolution divided Americans between patriots and loyalists. It was a bold and revolutionary idea, too much for some. Richard Henry Lee gave some idea of his reasons and resolve on the matter. On the 20th of June 1776, he wrote a letter to his fellow Virginia Patrick Henry in which he said, quote, "It is not choice then, but necessity that calls for independence as the only means by which foreign alliance can be obtained and a proper confederation by which internal peace and harmony can be secured.

[00:34:18]independence, union, peace.

[00:34:23]The Lee resolution was successful and would ultimately lead to the Declaration of Independence and the United States of America.

[00:34:34]Lee was committed to a republican form of government. He would go on to serve his country as a distinguished military officer, president of the Continental Congress, governor of Virginia, United States Senator, and outspoken advocate for the Bill of Rights. He passed away in 1794, having given his life and all to create and defend his country and his people.

[00:35:03]The epitap of Richard Henry Lee reads as follows. Here lies the remains of Richard Henry Lee, son of Thomas Lee of Stratford, born January 20th, 1732, died June 19th, 1794.

[00:35:22]He was a delegate to the first Congress and moved in that august assembly the resolution to declare these colonies free and independent. To this he was constantly devoted and his inflexible patriotism was always engaged in the cause of liberty. He supported independence in the Senate of the United States. He was a firm Christian.

[00:35:50]End of quote. I love that.

[00:35:54]Given what Richard Henry Lee did to create the American Union, it is ironic what his grandson would later do to the American American Union. That grandson, Confederate General Robert E. me.