Enlightenment is not an external achievement but rather a recognition of one's inherent nature as pure awareness, which is already present but often unrecognized by the thinking mind; spiritual experiences are fundamentally subjective and individual, and while they may provide relief from suffering, they should not be sought for their effects as this creates attachment and neurosis; the path to genuine spiritual understanding requires both rational analysis and direct personal experience, and one must critically evaluate spiritual teachers and systems rather than blindly following them, as many gurus may be more harmful than helpful by promoting delusion over practical wisdom.
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You're Enlightened, Now What? | Effing the Ineffable w/ Adam and ReedAdded:
no there is no reality outside of their own perspective outside of their own existence that there is no existence without their ability to perceive it.
And I was like, "No, that's not true."
>> Well, how do you know that's not true?
>> Because if you were to be deleted from existence, existence would still continue without you. Same for me. If I was just if a meteor were to crash onto me right now, you still would continue.
I'm just making an assumptive leap.
>> Yeah. How do you know that? You're also making you're you're assuming that's true.
>> There's a there's a little bit of a logical leap I'm taking. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We don't actually know if we disappeared that reality would continue.
>> We can Yeah.
>> But I mean, it's it's a ridiculous thing because if I were to sit next to you and slap you in the face, you would feel the pain and I wouldn't. So, I have to either believe that you're a real person or you're not a real person.
Well, like in a dream, if you punch someone in the face, you don't feel it.
>> What?
>> If you're dreaming and you punch someone in the face, you don't feel the pain, but they seem to.
>> Yeah. So, >> yeah. Neither you nor that person actually exist. It was just a dream. So, like that doesn't really You can't use that to prove anything either.
Right. But there's a difference between dream sleepd dreaming and what this is reality.
>> How do you know? How do you know this isn't this the same kind of phenomenon?
>> It feels different. I I don't have any real aware I I've never been able to be aware in my own dream.
Do >> you don't have any evidence that this isn't also a type of dream?
Yeah, I'm I'm having to as I breathe and I center in on the moment, I'm having to assume that what we're experiencing is real.
The >> same assumption is made in a dream.
>> That assumption is not made in a dream for me.
>> You don't even question it.
>> There's no questioner. There's no nothing. There's just the car like the character is so fully asleep in its own play, whatever form it takes in the dream that there is no awareness.
Could the dreamer I mean people lucid dream all the time and are aware that they're dreaming.
They're they become aware that they're not the character in the dream, >> right? But it's they're they're aware that it's a dream if they're lucid dreaming.
Correct.
>> Right. They Yeah.
>> Okay. And so they're aware that if they were to take their giant god hand and smash it on a town, they wouldn't actually be harming anyone.
>> Right. So I'm saying that your unawareness that you're dreaming is not proof that this isn't a dream because you are aware.
>> Your unawareness. I don't understand.
So if someone can be aware that it's you you used your you used the fact that your you said that because your character is asleep in the dream and here you seem to be awake to the reality of the character that somehow being as being identified fully as a character proves that it's a dream but that doesn't hold. That's what you said.
I don't know why my brain wasn't able to follow that line of thought right now. I think I need another cup of coffee. I don't know. I don't know what happened.
>> Welcome to the show.
>> But so far, you haven't provided any evidence other than your feeling that >> you can't you can't provide any evidence that you're feeling anything. Nobody can provide evidence about the nature of their own experience. That's my point.
But when you assume that the the evidence proves that other people or that existence doesn't occur without me, that's absurd.
>> You you can't use your own >> You have no You have no evidence. That's absurd.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. I'm just talk I'm just talking.
>> You feel that it's absurd. It doesn't make sense to you, but yet not making sense to you or feeling right doesn't prove anything.
>> It doesn't I'm not trying to I'm not proving I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to think that existence stops because you're gone. It's completely nihilistic.
>> I'm That's not an argument, though. I'm saying just because you say it's ridiculous or absurd doesn't have any weight on whether or not it's true.
It could very well be true, but the only argument or evidence you're presenting is that you think it's ridiculous or absurd.
>> Yeah. I mean, there's no whether it's true or not is irrelevant.
>> So, why why are you so confident that you're going to declare their view is absurd? because this the the point or the let's see because the space out of which they're projecting it the fact that they're projecting that point of view tells me everything I need to know about the fault the the fault in that view explain >> this person has decided or believes that if they don't exist if they can't perceive reality there is no existence.
That's what they're sharing with me.
That's what they're saying. And I'm saying that's wrong.
>> You could be a character in their dream.
>> I'm 100% a character in their dream.
>> So when they wake up from the dream, you might very well disappear.
>> Wait, what? When they wake up from the dream?
>> If you're a character in their dream, truly when they wake up from the dream, you will truly disappear.
>> Yes. Just like anybody who wakes up, the topic for today, what is what is you're enlightened now? What? Anybody that wakes up, there's no more people.
There's just happenings. You're enlightened. Now what?
>> No, no, no. I'm saying literally if they're dreaming and you're a charact you're a projection in their dream, even though you feel that you're real, when they wake up from their dream, you will disappear.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's waking up. Yeah. I'm not talking about waking up in like an enlightenment or awakening sense.
>> What are you talking about?
>> They're literally a person asleep dreaming, >> having a dream in their bed right now, and that you're a character in that dream.
>> But that's not what's happening. That is not what's happening.
>> How do you know that?
>> I don't need to know that. I don't need to know it or not know it. Good morning, bird. Honestly, that sounds like what a dream character trying to prove their own existence would say.
>> Wait, I'm not trying to prove anything.
>> I I don't understand why you're saying you don't you have certainty that that's not the case.
I mean, certainty as far as as far as I recognize that this exists and if I get deleted, if my consciousness just blinks out, like I said, meteor crashes into this room, I'm like 99.9% positive that you will still continue.
And you too, bird, good morning. And you too, Bennett. Good morning. I'm I'm just asking >> you if I'm guys if I'm g if I die randomly here like meteor on in my room I'm 99.9% positive everybody else gets to continue existing >> I mean a lot of people are positive that the earth is flat >> I mean but but what I'm saying isn't a like it's >> I'm just asking what your evidence is that's all >> I don't have any Okay. It's just a feeling. It just seems true.
>> It just seems It just seems reasonable to exist in a world that is that we interact with each other. And >> I mean, how many beliefs have you had over your life that seemed reasonable at the time, but were totally wrong.
>> But I've I've had the belief that if I die, everything dies. And it doesn't it's not a helpful belief. It it doesn't serve anything.
Does helpfulness prove whether or not the belief is true?
>> For me, if a belief is helpful and opens me up to new ideas or new ways of perceiving or new ways of being, to me it's a helpful idea. And yes, bird, we're talking about cypism.
>> Yeah. So now we've returned to cypism where if it's helpful to you, then it's true enough.
>> Wait, what? No, I'm just saying I'm just saying that a a celyptic worldview from my experience is not a helpful worldview. I don't people can have whatever worldview they want. I'm not claiming to be the arbiter of truth. I'm just saying if when someone tells me that that exist that existence is because I perceive it, I'm saying no.
You could not perceive it and exist existence would still be. Isn't it salypic or salopsistic to say because it doesn't seem true to you, then it must not be true.
>> I'm not Who's saying that? I don't know who's saying that. No, I'm not. I'm just I'm sharing this point of view.
>> I know. But you're you're presenting no evidence and you're just saying it seems true. It's 99% seems true to you. And if it's helpful or not helpful, that's how you decide what's true as far as beliefs go. And I would encourage anybody who ever falls into this conversation and is interested in this to discover it for yourself. That's my that's my hey my message on the billboard. The first thing is you're wrong. The second thing is discover.
Actually, not you're wrong. The the billboard would say be wrong. I think we should all be more wrong.
how evolution works. How did your consciousness come about without being born? Your parents would have to have been there before you.
There's another leap, an assumptive leap. You can't I can't prove that my parents birthed me. I have no way of knowing their act my actual real parents. They could show me the pictures and I go, "This is Truman. This is Truman Show right now."
>> We can um I mean you can just like I did you can question anything uh epistemically. I don't know if that's the correct term epistemologically.
Um but you can question the source of knowledge and always have doubt.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. because like I wasn't there when they wrote the birth certificate, but that was presented to me as evidence.
Um, but the fact is just because someone presents what they're telling you as proof of something doesn't mean it's true, >> right? So even you asking me for the evidence of what I'm saying is doesn't mean anything.
>> Yeah. You the evidence you present or not is But okay, so I I'll go back. I will stand on the fact that you can't just say their viewpoint is absurd. You don't have any ground to stand on by saying that.
>> Well, I could I could say my viewpoint is absurd.
Yeah, you could you could yeah that there's not you don't really have any like authoritative knowledge or evidence to use that you're going to stand on to declare that what they're saying is absurd.
It could it could be true is what I'm saying. So like saying like it doesn't you could say it doesn't make sense to me what you're saying but to declare it as absurd or ridiculous is a step too far.
Um, okay. Hey, NS Streamit, good morning. At 11:00 a.m. You're in the Discord. Just hop into hop into the um you see the you'll see in Discord, you'll see that me and Reed are in the channel called Adam and Reed record.
Yeah, just hop in there at 11 and uh that's there's no link. You just have to just join the voice channel.
Uh but yeah, you want to start us off? I just I just pre guys I just pressed record and stream because me and Reed started getting into it. We we don't argue I wouldn't say that Reed and I argue. I would say that we discuss things uh at least yeah very uh in uh emot emotionally intensely intentionally >> definitely an argument and I'm trying to show Adam that he's totally wrong.
What are So, I guess bird wants to know what's the argument about. What What arguments are we making and who's making what?
I don't know anymore. I I just I I was just saying there was somebody on TikTok who told me that the only reason existence existence is because they can perceive it. And I said no.
>> That was that was it.
>> Did you Did you misunderstand what they're saying, though?
>> I could have. Yeah, I very well could have.
Listen, >> because I mean one way to look at that is like the only the only thing you'll ever know is your experience. You'll never have direct knowledge of anything.
All you know is that there is some could be some kind of world that's filtered through your senses and you're getting a mental projection of it. You will never have access to anything outside of your own head.
You never have direct access to anything outside your own head. You only see what's been filtered and processed by your brain. So in that sense, your reality, your reality experientially, the only thing you'll ever know is your own existence, is the inside of your brain. So in that sense, it's true. You know, in one sense, the world does end when we disappear because the world we know and live in is inside our head.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I see that. Yeah.
But I would ne I would never I would never say that you >> do you hear that? Do you hear that?
>> Did someone just join in?
>> Join in.
>> You'll need to mute.
>> Is that what happened?
>> Is that what happened?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Hello. Hello.
I'm going to try to pronounce your name.
Pronounce your name. I'm muting. I'm muting them.
Why? Why?
>> Because it was causing an echo.
>> Echo.
>> It's still causing an echo. Still causing an echo.
>> Not for me. I don't hear it. I don't hear it.
>> Do I still hear it?
>> No, I muted it now, too. So, Ed, Matria, just uh get your video on and get your your mic working without an echo. We can we can have you on here.
>> I thought we were starting at 11.
>> It looks like they uh it looks like they did not follow uh the directions. Well, we can.
>> Yeah, we're going to start at 11.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Do you want to open up with the topic? What we what we decided?
>> Uh, we have a few things. What did we decide?
>> Well, I've got two that that on our text message our text message thing.
>> Which one did you like best? Want to pull the audience? I titled it um I titled this talk I mean I titled the stream as um you're enlightened now what >> you want to talk about that >> sure there he is hold on let me get this let me fix this up.
Wow, this is uh Can you hear me, Reed?
>> He's muted.
>> I know, but I got to I got to make sure that we can see uh we can see him.
I'm adjusting the screen here so everybody can see at Matria.
Oh, let me unmute you, too. Uh >> no, I' I've got to mute him. There's a huge feedback loop loop.
>> Is it still Is it now? Is it now?
>> I muted. I had to mute Mr. Mata.
>> I think you got to mute me. You got to mute me.
>> Okay. Are you >> Are you >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Speak. I speak. Adam. Adam.
>> I'm speaking. Can you hear me? If I mute you.
>> Okay. Let's see.
I'm gonna get you set up here.
>> Set up here and then I'm going to fix the echo.
>> The echo.
>> It's because on that screen you're projecting the whole >> uh uh stream. So, it's you're getting double voices out of >> You're right. I'm going to stop my virtual camera.
>> Virtual camera.
>> How about now? How about now?
Uh uh.
>> So can I is okay now?
>> Uh uh.
>> No, I'm still getting >> when you mute me. What what happens then?
>> Oh, >> when we mute your no more feedback.
>> Maybe because of this fourth one.
>> Yes. Yes. No. No.
Wait. I got to mute you again.
It's actually I hear I hear fine. I only hear me and Reed echoed echoed.
>> It's because because um um >> uh for his screen you're showing the whole live stream and so I'm hearing >> hearing >> audio feedback feedback.
>> Oh, because I'm show because I'm show you're projecting the whole stream.
Yeah. Not just his uh Discord or whatever.
What should I do to fix it?
>> Well, display his screen how you display mine.
>> Oh, okay. Okay.
How did I Discord guest?
Read Discord. Discord guest.
>> Sorry, Mr. Matraa. Technical difficulties will be with you in just a moment.
I like your setup, by the way.
Window capture.
All right. I'm going to capture just like I'm capturing read.
Okay. Capture audio.
>> You don't want to capture the audio from that because that'll capture my voice twice.
>> Okay. But what should I do to capture his audio then?
>> I I don't know, bro. This is your >> Okay, >> this is your job to have this figured out.
>> All right. I think this might work though because work, though, because >> Do you hear the echo again?
>> You hear the echo again?
>> Well, I've got I've got I've got a thing muted. Let me see. Let me see.
>> Um >> Um Yes, I hear the I hear the echo.
>> Maybe kick me out and then maybe when I come back, maybe it will be better.
Wait, wait.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> It's so weird. You're You sound normal on mine, but I hear my voice echo.
>> My voice echoed.
>> I'm just hearing a huge huge >> Yeah. Whenever you talk.
>> I'm hearing it from you. From you.
>> I think I need Come back. Come back.
Still, I still Why do I Why do I >> I still hear a feedback voice.
>> Even when I was gone.
>> Yeah. Wait, it's gone now.
Well, that's cuz he's muted again.
That's why. No. No. I don't. It's gone now.
>> Are we good?
>> I think so. Yeah. I don't hear any feedback.
And now where my mic is on.
>> Um, yeah. Now I hear feedback.
>> So it's when his mic is on that we get feedback.
>> Think so. Now I don't hear it.
How about now?
>> Um >> Um I still >> I can hear my voice.
>> So the best is that I leave and maybe next time me and Adam can test before we before I come in because we don't want to interrupt this live for our viewers.
Yeah, that might be what my Yeah, just go ahead and continue, guys.
>> I'll see you next time. Next time.
>> Yes. Thank you very much.
man.
Can you hear me?
>> Yep. Everything's normal now.
>> Dude, that's that sucks. I wanted to talk to him.
>> Got to get it this [ __ ] squared away before the middle of the show.
Why? Why did it Why did it do that? It didn't do that when we had Joe on.
>> I don't know.
>> I'm so bummed out.
I think my day is ruined.
>> Well, you'll get over it in about 15 seconds.
>> No, but he has had such a soft voice and it seems so pleasant. I wanted to talk to him.
>> I know. I wanted to hear him, too. It was probably the best thing that was ever going to happen to the show. And >> yeah, >> you blocked it, Adam. You didn't You didn't have it ready.
>> Dang it.
>> Oh, man.
>> Next week for sure.
>> I kind of want to go off the air, fix this up, and then come back on at 11.
>> No.
>> Dang.
>> Let's talk about how you're feeling right now. Tell Tell us.
>> I feel terrible. I just I feel like I just feel like I really um it's like what does it feel like?
It's like you find out that you're going to get to go to uh Six Flags and then they're like, "Yeah, nope. You're not going to Six Flags and it's because of the things you didn't do." It's like, "You didn't do your chores, so you can't go to Six Flags." It's like, well, let me go do the chores now real quick so then we can go to Six Flags.
That's what it feels like.
>> Is there a feeling of responsibility or just blame?
>> No blame, no responsibility. Just like, well, this is why we can't go to Six Flags. Let's fix it so we can There's no one to blame.
>> Why is there no feeling of responsibility?
>> Disappointment. Yeah, that's a good word, Bird. It's just disappointment there. I don't know. There's no responsibility because there's nothing I nothing anyone could have done. Like we It's like >> true.
>> He could have set up beforehand and made sure all the uh audio is working correctly.
If your job is to find guests and interview people and set up a live stream, then that's totally your responsibility, >> right? But there was an outside variable, something I still don't know why it didn't work. It's like >> lack of preparation and knowledge.
That's not an outside variable, >> bro. What how many rocket ships does it take to to transcend the atmosphere? How many rocket ships blew up while trying to get to the moon?
Getting audio on a live stream is not an unknown rocket science.
>> Yeah, but you don't know where the problem is until you set up with someone beforehand. You make sure all that stuff's set up, all the audio is good.
Like a band doesn't go on the stage without having someone tested the sound system first.
They don't they don't just walk out there, hope it works, and then fix a problem in the middle of the show.
They already know that it works because they tested it. They did the setup. They did the tests. Then they go on the show, >> right? Well, we we did that with Joe. It worked fine. And for some reason today, it didn't work.
And we still have to we still have to fig we tested it with Joe. We still have to figure out why it didn't work with Matteo.
>> Does it you know you don't test one show once and then go set up somewhere else and think it's going to work because you test it at the last auditorium you were at.
>> So you test Oh you you So you're saying you do a sound check every time before you go live?
>> Absolutely. So, I got to find a third I got to find I got to get you and a third person online to test the sound before we go live every week.
>> Um, you would test the audio with the person at some point. Make sure that the setup is good and then maybe you could do that a day before or something, you know.
>> Okay.
Okay. Well, here's what I want to do.
I want to I want to um in make a Google event. I want to make a Google event. I want to send it to Matteo and try to uh solve the problem.
>> Uh well, I mean, we had, you know, we had a plan for a show. It was going to come on at 11 and then we had stuff to talk about.
>> Wait a second. Bennett. Bennett, is that what you think it is? He He had our stream opened and that's why we heard the echo.
Dude, could that have been it? Matteo, did you have our Did you have the stream opened while you were in the Discord?
>> I mean, I think it was something on his end.
>> The guest's mic was picking up you guys.
That's what it was.
>> Yeah. or I don't know if his mic was, but something on his on his end was I mean that was a dynamic mic pointed straight at his face so it wouldn't have picked us up maybe. Hey Matteo, was you were did you have the stream open too while you were listening to us?
Simon says hey this is what Simon says.
Simon says as long as you learn and alter that matters.
>> Yes.
>> Uh tech can be glitchy. We all need people to push our buttons sometimes.
Three times a charm. You can only try.
Okay. So, maybe maybe Matteo can fix it on his end and figure out what's wrong and we'll we can try to bring it back in a little bit. Until then, do you want to start with the topic?
>> Yes. You pull the thing you want to talk about.
>> Oh, I get to decide.
>> Yes.
>> Let's see.
Um Let's let's let's work it out after the after the show and then we'll come in clean next show.
>> Okay, Matteo, I'm really looking forward to hearing hearing what you have to say.
>> I I am. Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it.
>> All right, so since since we're already in my feelings, let's go with this one.
What is spirituality anyway, and why is Adam mad about it?
>> Yeah. Okay, >> I'm already in my feelings.
>> Um yeah, I I'm Yeah. What is spirituality?
Um, I think it's a actually more difficult to answer than maybe it seems.
I think most people have a working I think people assume they know what it means or just kind of have this assumed understanding.
But at least for me, like the more I try to actually look at it and define it, the more wiggly it gets and the more I find, well, what I thought was spirituality is actually either psychology or philosophy or metaphysics um or just a discipline.
Uh >> oh.
I lost you.
>> Yeah. Did we just lag out? Okay, great.
>> Today is the day.
>> Well, where did where did where did I cut out?
>> I don't know. You're talking about something. I don't know. I don't know.
I want Matteo back. No, you were talking about spirituality and how we confuse it with psychology and philosophy and um >> philosophy, metaphysics, a disciplined lifestyle, whatever. So like what uh it's actually it was actually difficult for me to pin down where spirituality it it begins and what it actually is. Um, but we saved the we didn't talk about on the phone and you said the subject made you mad, which I'm and I'm not I don't know why or what. So, we're going to what what is this burning anger inside of you that is consuming your life in regards to spirituality?
So it was it was the question of what is spiritual? It it made me upset because I guess my my perspect my perspective on spirituality is it it's unknowable.
Whatever it is it's unknowable to actually have an idea of what it is is frustrating because we've got hundreds of systems quote unquote spiritual systems of people talking about what it is.
It's It's not. It's The whole point is it's unknowable. So why the hell is anybody running around talking about what it is?
>> Well, why do you think it's unknowable?
You must have an idea of spirituality to be able to declare that it's unknowable.
Like it sounds like you've got a system just like everybody else. And in your system, it has something to do with undefined, unknowable stuff.
>> It's experiential.
The limits of my own senses, the limits of my own experience have been reached.
I have reached the limits of my own ability as a being in a body to know.
The only way change or any any change or or adjustment of my own being, the only reason any of that has occurred is through the unknowing, through not knowing.
It hasn't came from anybody who told me what this is or told me what that is or said to do this eight-fold path or that.
It wasn't even and I at a time I thought it was because of my own self-discovery, my own honest expressions and and examinations.
That wasn't it either.
It was complete and utter unknowing.
It is complete and utter unknowing.
That's what this is. Do you associate spirituality with inner change then inner transformation? No, >> I mean you can have self-development, you can have personal growth, you can everybody can try those things and whether they work or not is up to a person to realize for themselves. Um, >> so is it about getting to the extent of what you know and what you don't know?
So, you said it at the beginning of this episode, we can't I can't actually know anything outside of my own experience or my own brain. That's what you said, correct? I can't actually >> That's true. It seems to be true.
>> And spiritual is is is opening up to the mystery that maybe there's something beyond my own brain.
>> Okay. Okay. It has something to do with that. Yeah, I would agree.
and and and I get frustrated because the moment a person starts telling me what that is, I'm going, "No, you're missing it."
So, you think that no one anyone who seems to have a concrete definition of spirituality is not talking about spirituality.
No, no, that's not what I would say because I think everything life is like some weird mirage or some re weird like tapestry that adjusts itself based on you. So you're shown the things you like every person is shown things and it's up to their own I guess their own philosophy, their own perspective, their own whatever to grapple with it, to make sense of it for themselves. It it so in and I would never I wouldn't say that >> the words written on a page are the same words for everyone, but each person reads a different meaning and story.
>> Yeah. And you could even read it slower or faster. Or like here's the sentence from Simon. Adam moves his apple with Eve's help. Adam.
Then I got to think what an Adam is.
Moves. What is moving? His. What is his?
You could go slow. You could go fast.
You're going to apply meaning and context to anything that you're experiencing.
>> Even if someone explains their spiritual system to you, there's a there's an assumed context for each of the words they're using. Even the the nuanced meaning of everything that someone is telling you is variable for each hearer.
>> But the assumed context is implied by any every hearer any hearer.
>> The hearer is the context in a way. It's it's everything their brain contains is the um so we still haven't touched on what spirituality is though. What what so what is it that's what is it?
What does it encompass? How about that?
What is what does the discipline or the framework or the idea of spirituality encompass?
>> It's it's just it's I guess the way to look at it. Like this way I the way I look at it is, you know, in Minecraft, you know, in Minecraft, you arrive on the world and you don't know what the hell you're doing or what anything is.
So, you start to make up reasons for things or you discover reasons for things. That's all that is. Nobody knows why the hell we're here, what the hell this is. And we're coming up with all this stuff about what it is. Inherently, it's spiritual. Inherently, we don't have any clue what the hell's going on or why it's happening.
>> So, spirituality is a an attempt to explain existence.
>> Spirit spirituality is an an acknowledgement of the unknown, the unknowable as it lives, breathes, and expresses itself in this moment and every moment.
And how how how into spirituality you want to be or out of it you want to be is up to the person.
So, um, >> I I can tell you a story, >> okay?
>> The the the woman in the 13th century who didn't go to church on Sunday because she saw that every moment, everywhere she was was worthy of honoring God. She was in church at all times and they executed her.
That's spirituality. It's just awake.
Awakening up to that being awake to that the the >> So it has something to do with God.
>> Well, if you want to use that term, I I just like the I just like >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. The miraculous unknowing of existence and experience itself.
>> So I would say um Yeah. that has spirituality is my relationship with this thing that's greater than I, greater than all eyes, seems to be behind everything and is beyond the mind, but isn't just um something material because there's tons of stuff that's beyond my mind. We're talking about beyond our known material reality, beyond a concept, beyond a mental reality, beyond a conceptual reality.
It's a relationship with that. And not just a relationship um like I have a relationship with a tree or a rock outside my house, but it seems to be a relationship that um that I I change as a result of being in.
like I experience a transformation. I I don't remain static in a relationship with this thing. That's my experience with it. And I think that's I think uh spiritual seekers would agree that there seems to be a transformation involved in relationship with this thing. No one remains the same if you're truly in relationship.
Um, it seems to know better than I do what's best for me somehow.
Think all those things are within the realm of spirituality. Does that sound like we're in the ballpark?
Yeah.
Yeah. It's tough. It's tough though because um yeah, it's it's it's it's it's uh it's tough. It's tough though because it's it's hard to it's hard to describe it.
Like the the reason why I get I get so frustrated is the the anthropomorphizing of an entity frustrates me.
>> Yeah. And I don't think that necessarily has to have anything to do with spirituality. Um but it it can um but no it's like yeah you start if you if you're talking about having a relationship with something undefinable I mean you you got to give you got to give it a body even if it's just a conceptual body and we do that like you've given a body to the unknowable by calling it the unknowable even though I know I know that you don't >> it it's a body that's out there and it's it's for When you say unknowable, it transmits something to me that I hear. It's transmitting a concept. The unknowable truly can't be transmitted.
>> Your brain is your brain is creating the concept.
>> Unknowable is unknowable.
>> I know. I know. I know. And you're you're not talking about a relationship with a concept, but it necessarily gains a body as soon as it's expressed in words at all. There doesn't have to be a hearer, but if you say the word unknowable, you're you're projecting a concept of it. So it's it's impossible not to give it a body.
But that's why the Jews prohibited saying the name of God because it becomes an a concept, an idol, a thing really fast.
>> Yeah. And I mean >> even like to refer to it.
>> Yeah. Yahweh, they put God g-en D because they don't want to say it. Um, but what I'm I guess what I'm alluding to in the realm of spirituality is it's experiential and it's it's individualistic for you. It's it's everybody has their there's not a blanket like birds asking I still don't understand what spirituality is. Like there's >> there's no blanket term for it. It's it's your relationship with whatever the hell is happening. All I'm saying is none of us know what the hell is happening.
>> But it's your relationship to whatever the hell's happening.
>> Yeah. So what's the difference between that and just psychology? Knowing my own mind.
>> Well, that's a that's a so that we I mean that's a different uh subject. Like what? Like knowing oneself. My experience is is is knowing myself, knowing the inner workings of my mind and and why and how things operate has allowed me to drop conceptions, beliefs, conceptualizations, um and enter into an experience with whatever it is we're talking about. Ra and so rather than have thoughts or theories or ideas about it.
>> And then >> oh sorry >> I was just going to say and Drumick says if Reed would use headphones maybe it would work.
And then Simon says unconditional love is what seems to be the driving force of good and bad.
If all feelings are the same, but a high level or low, love or hate, I don't know God, but I feel he is there.
So the closest I can get to spirituality is there's there seems to be this this middle ground between it's like it's like writing this line between thought like being a character in the world thinking planning having a day where I'm taking action known actions and then there's this other side that's unknown that I'm expecting guidance and leading from and it's it's this middle line.
It's this it's like walking in the middle of that where I'm not where I'm a where I'm planning and acting but also somehow being in alignment with something beyond and I can't define that because that moves it into the realm of planning and acting.
like I can't I can't concretely define the relationship and what I do to be in this relationship because then it becomes of the realm of the mind where it's a it's a plan. It's a thing I'm going to go do that I thought of. Does that make sense? So it's like this kind of how do you bridge action with the unknowable? How do you how do you and how do you like intentionally live in alignment with something that requires non-intention in a way?
>> What a paradox.
>> Does that make does that feel like >> what >> do you feel like that makes sense?
>> No, you're splitting yourself apart.
those the the separating practical um actions and thinking and then splitting that from an experience of relationship or union with the divine.
It it's sep it's it's separating them when they're the same.
>> Well, in whose system are they the same?
We're like re we're redefining spirituality again. It's like the lady the lady at who didn't go to church because she saw that everything was God.
Was she spiritual? And then the people who thought you needed to go to church weren't spiritual.
>> No. No. Every everybody like I said this is everybody every everybody has to it's a it's it's not a blanket term. It's a individual like it's an individual thing. So that's that's what I was trying to point towards is that um yeah it's it's an indiv it's it can't I don't think there's a definition or rule set that covers it. That's my current experience with it. That's that's my current walk with this thing.
Okay. Okay. So that's how you're inter what you just said or how you describe it is how you're interfacing with how you're living in your own this is your spiritual system that you're living in.
>> And it's not a it's not a system. It's just how how yeah it's our it's our it's our personal interface with God. It's our personal walk or journey with the unknowable as you say. Um so maybe that's spirituality is um in a way it's our individual journey with something beyond ourselves and beyond other people but maybe that includes ourselves and other people.
>> Sure.
>> Bird said what?
>> Yeah.
>> You were gonna ask Bird something.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I want to know if he has any idea if we've gotten any closer to helping him understand what spirituality is or what we're talking about.
I feel like no.
He says, "If I had to explain what an almost if I had to explain what an almost spiritual experience, I would say it's immersion of action and awareness coupled with a sense of being a part of everything known and unknown. It's almost like the ego is being dissolved like a drop of ink in a cup of water.
That's how he would describe this uh an almost spiritual experience.
>> So, and I like that. Um and I will I will say that a spiritual experience is different from spirituality. I think spirituality implies a way of living.
>> Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good point.
So again, it's like how do we live in relationship with what we might come in contact with through spiritual experience? Because some people have an encounter with the divine or the unknowable or oneness or whatever and then go about their day. It's like finding a cool rock on the ground and leaving it there.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's a Yeah, it's like it's like how it's it's making me think of uh Who's that guy from AA? The really extreme dude from Texas. What's that guy's name?
>> Mark Houston.
>> Mark Houston. He's like, I wouldn't I wouldn't go to the God's ocean with a thimble. I'd bring a bucket. I'd bring a I'd bring a freaking uh two-tonon truck and just fill it with much God as I possibly can.
>> Yeah. You go to the ocean with a thimble, get a thimble full. You go with a bucket, get a bucket full. So, it's kind of like you get to kind of decide how like how bad do you want it? Like how much do you want it kind of a deal?
Like do you how how how li how lived spiritually do you want to be kind of a thing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like goes back to surrender. I mean it's like there's not I don't think there's a relationship with God where it's like uh yeah I'm I'm checking in every once in a while to see what God's doing. That's um that's way more uh I'm I'm checking out so that God can be doing more interesting.
But that's just one way of framing the thing. Like it's it's I I I tend to take a a positive uh approach whereas I think you tend to take the negative approach where it's an absence of rather than a presence of. I lean into a presence of rather than an absence of anything.
>> The reason I lean um into the negative more is because of what you said at the beginning of the show. There's no escaping my own brain. There's no escaping my own sense perceptions.
>> Well, that's that's where reliance on this power to lead one I think is so essential because then I'm, you know, in theory no longer bound to the limits of my own brain.
And that's why I experience expansion, um, increased cohesion with my environment, regression towards things that are conducive to my well-being and the well-being of others.
And when I'm relying on the extent of my own brain, there's a contraction, same problems forever, uh, conflict.
There you go. Yeah, bird. Spirituality as a lifestyle.
>> Nothing to lose but is that who's that?
>> Nothing to lose but your head by Bagwan Shri Rajnish.
He had a rebranding uh later on in life.
There's nothing to lose but your head.
All right, let's go to the next one.
Spirituality as a lifestyle. What do we got next? I would like to try if Matteo is still here.
>> Wait, that's a good segue into you're enlightened, so now what?
>> Okay, you're enlightened, so now what?
>> Now that you've had a few spiritual experiences, it's time to make it a lifestyle. You need certain clothes, you need to you need to dress a new way, and you need to go to special groups. And then you need to >> start a YouTube channel.
>> Go to the sweat lodges. You need to start a YouTube channel about it. You need to um I don't know. There's lots of stuff you got to start doing.
>> Yeah. Now that you're enlightened.
>> Yeah. You might need to start wearing a pyramid on your head.
>> Drink your own piss. You might you might find alternative medicines to be quite tasty.
>> I want to preface this by saying my experience or non-experience of enlightenment.
So we got to first define what we think enlightenment is. Okay, you're enlightened. Now what? Okay.
My flavor of fair is for me the enlightened state is seeing everything happening on its own including my own body, thoughts, feelings, emotions, birds, trees, stars, impulses. To me, an enlightened an enlightened state is recognizing no doer and no owner of all manifestations of whatever this is.
The I say the enlightened state is impossible to escape from. It's just the state we're already in. The difference is whether or not one's mind recognizes it or not.
awareness can't be anything other than pure and clear. But even those words, I mean, it's it's it is here. It's not can't be gotten away from. Someone can recognize that to varying degrees, though.
>> You're already enlightened. Now what?
Well, I don't feel enlightened. Well, that sucks because and it sucks because you want to be enlightened. But if you didn't want to, then it wouldn't be a problem there. Case closed.
But yeah. So, so what >> I this great you basically just shut my brain off by everything you just said.
>> I know. It just there was no there's just like you completely shut the system down.
>> So really the question is so you well okay so you're enlightened now what you start uh teaching people stuff and so and so okay it's a it's a bad career path because your only option is to become a Jim Newman or Rupert Spear or whatever like there's no other there's no other end game. The endgame is you're sitting on a platform or a cushion somewhere with people asking you the same [ __ ] question every day and then no matter what you say, a new group of people is asking you the same questions again next week. And then after 10 years, you must surely question whether or not you're actually doing anything. But for some reason, I don't know, maybe there's nothing else to do at that point because your whole brand is the teacher. Now you can't escape. Now you have to be the guru. And then you're realizing you don't actually have anything to give. But the charade has grown and grown and now you got to start wearing crazy clothes. Set up a picture of Ramadan and Maharshi next to you. Wear the garlands.
Um I'm thinking about Muji when I say that like he's he is in deep. He can't be like he can't he can't not say what he's saying. He he can't have a new experience. He can't.
You know what I mean? I mean, he's got to be enlightened. He's got to He has to be.
>> I don't So, I don't think what you just described is talking about enlightenment. Uh I think you're talking about guruhip.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. I mean I mean that's when I hear that it's like it's it's I see no difference between Muji, you know? I I saw a picture of Muji yesterday of somebody approaching him and being like, you know, this is a recent one. Like, ready for your blessings, Muji? And Muji is actively giving them a blessing, >> giving them exactly what they're asking for, right?
>> Yeah.
>> I see no difference between that and me cleaning a tire mold at the warehouse.
>> You're just doing what's asked of you.
>> Yeah.
And that's what that was Osho's argument, you know, when he's when he was Bwan and he there's so many great interviews on YouTube of him like just dripped out just stone cold eye stares, you know, answering interviewers questions, speaking slower than molasses. And he's basically, "So people want to give me ro Rolls-Royces? Why would I stop them from giving me Rolls-Royces? It's how they want to express themselves."
And he's not wrong.
Do you think he would have affirmed that he had special knowledge or not?
>> Oh, I don't know.
>> He's a He was a He was a shifty bug, that guy.
>> Yeah. I mean, you can't you can't have people gifting you cars and then not somehow, you know, understanding that that's because they think you're special in some way.
And if you truly recognize yourself as not special in any way, I don't think you would take extravagant gifts like that.
>> I don't know. I I don't know. It's just if you were to like you've gifted me things and it's like so nice. Like why would you why would I say no if it's especially something I enjoy?
>> But what if I was giving you a car because I thought you were at a higher level of enlightenment than I was? Well, who's to say that's what they thought or >> But it was clear that that's what I thought.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, who's to stop someone from spending their energy the way they want to? I'm kind of I'm on Osho's side here. I'm on Rajnisha's side here. By >> receiving the gift, you're affirming what you know they believe.
I so people have told me things positive about me and negative about me and whether I accept them or not makes no real difference of whether they're expressing it or giving it. No matter how much I tell them not to or if I really invested energy to stop someone from being nice to me. It's like who has the energy for that? And I got some I got some questions here. Do you want to keep going on this one or I was going to catch up on chat >> cuz we we we moved we moved from you're enlightened >> uh wait what now what to gurus.
>> Well yeah you're enlightened so now what like what so the question is like you know it's kind of a you know we're saying in a funny way but it's like okay you've had some spiritual insight or some experiences or seen some things in a different way. What do you do with that? Would you agree that that might be a practical question worth exploring?
>> Yeah, I mean what do you do with it? Uh there's I mean it's I don't know. It's it's like finding out that you got both your legs when you wake up in the morning. What do you do with not you can walk? You know, some people don't have their legs when they wake up and they got arms. What do you do with that?
>> Like it's just what do you do with your life? You know, it's it? Do you join a group? Do you seek more? Do you leave it alone >> once you So, I guess we have to redefine what we think enlightenment is then because I don't know what what you >> term enlightenment. I don't I don't know.
>> You No, you just described it. You said it's just awareness. It's right. You said aware.
>> Yeah. So, now we're we're talking about some some degree of spiritual insight.
Some something's happened. You're you're different. You see you're seeing things a different way. You're feeling something different. Your understanding is different.
>> Oh yeah. There's nothing there's nothing you can or can't do. If you're enlightened, you see that, right? That's enlightenment, right? You just realize like, oh [ __ ] Like there's nobody here. Whatever it is that's happening is happening.
What do you do with that?
>> That wasn't your experience when you first had uh something happen to you years ago. You went and did a whole bunch of stuff about it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I don't think I I that was an enlightening experience. It was like a peak experience, but it wasn't I was my process has been more of a gradual one. It hasn't been a a strike a lightning one.
>> There's been lots of stuff you've done and sought out information, books, practices.
>> But I would I would I would invert that and say all these things appeared and they didn't. I wish they would have appeared sooner because when I had that when I had that experience in the warehouse, I never was aware that I was thinking.
That was really the main thing about it.
It wasn't an enlight I wouldn't say it was an enlightening experience because immediately after it happened, I completely was completely enamored with myself.
There was a me and it was thinking.
>> Uhhuh.
So after your real enlightenment experience >> which was provided by you when you said like when I listen to Jim Newman when you say what you said 12 minutes ago my brain completely stops and it's like oh wow this is just what's h like I don't even have thought thought anymore it's great and that's why Bird asks the questions why do people seem to seek it out I find myself watching Spear and Newman and Osho and all these people I just seems to happen because it it like calms the mind. It it like brings me back into unknowing or being. It like it like does something. I don't >> I sought it out because um when I first um I mean I've been interested in some sort of spiritual realm for see I don't even know if this is spiritual stuff we're talking about now but I've been in adjacent realms for a long time but when I got uh sober for the first time for for real um like 8 10 years ago or so was when this kind of started um I got introduced to like the power of now by Eert Ti and then Krishna Murdy and then it was through these new ways of thinking all of a sudden um I started encountering insights or states of mind that gave me relief from what had up to that point been an intolerable state of being with anxiety, anger, frustration, just not feeling good, hating life. And all of a sudden there's these states that could switch on and relieve me of all of that.
So of course I became deeply interested in these topics because it provided relief from a deep chronic dissatisfaction I couldn't otherwise escape from. So it was medicine. It became spiritual medicine. And then I realized I've been uh and it was like self-medicating through spiritual but I don't think this stuff is spirituality.
Honestly I would separate this from spirituality. This is the seeking of states of mind that are preferable. has almost nothing to do with spirituality.
I would say spirituality is relinquishing one's search for a better state of mind which then actually coincidentally starts becoming in alignment with what this stuff is truly about which is being with what's here what's now without seeking a better here and now. Um, so that's where spirituality and concepts like enlightenment or awakening coincide.
Um, but that's why I started seeking this. It made me feel good.
And when spirituality makes you feel good, that's a big [ __ ] problem because this [ __ ] gets neurotic fast if you're seeking it for an effect.
Yeah, >> that was my experience. But >> no, >> and the the seeking of it, my my what drew me towards it, the effects I was getting became the blockers, became the problems that became the hang-up.
>> Um >> yeah, I had that same experience in a in 12 steps. I I had to reach the point where like and really it felt like more of an embodiment of Zen at that point where like I'm just willing to walk and it's not about getting anything from whatever the stuff is anymore. I don't even actively whatever the stuff we're talking about here I don't actively seek or participate in any intentional way. If if there's meditation it just happens. If there's a desire to sit quietly it just happens.
Even if maybe those things don't even have anything to do with what we're talking about, but I don't really think about this stuff anymore. There's no why unless it just seems interesting at the time. Sometimes I'll pick up an Anthony Dlo or I'll read something from an Alan Watts book just because I feel led to and then there's some kind of nugget that's like relevant to something I'm going through and then I I can drop it again.
beyond that.
>> Nice. Nice. I wish the people in the in the talk I was listening to yesterday could hear could hear what you just said.
Yeah, that's that's good.
Uh Bird says, "If I had to guess, I would say enlightenment to be I would say enlightenment is to be a radical shift in perspective or worldview that grants insights to the the sum or certain inner workings of a grander world.
As for what people do with it, I have no idea." So you can have that and it might not you know there's a difference between like an abiding experience and then you know a passing insight that has you know effect on the way you see things for a time and fades. I think when people are talking about enlightenment they're talking about like a seemingly permanent abiding experience in a different state of consciousness.
I think that's the popular conception of it. Ooh. Ooh.
>> What I said is we already exist.
We that state of consciousness.
There's an effect produced by a recognition of the enlightenment that is our inherent unescapable and inalterable nature.
But it's like you you could you can have there could be a million dollars hidden inside your the stuffing of your chair.
It only has an effect once you see that it's there.
So it's it's I think it's the thinking mind becoming aware of this really is the only thing that shifts. But I don't know. I'm not in some permanent abiding state of whatever, you know, Mujis are doing.
But that's not true either. I think we all are. And the idea, >> yeah, there's >> Yeah, >> there's levels to it. There's stages to it. There's different states of being.
Bird says, "Is enlightenment just a perspective?" I I think it's just a lightening of the load. What is what does your man uh what does your guy say?
>> Traveling lighter. Yeah, Paul Hedderman.
He's Paul Hedderman is I think is the best teacher out there. And he's definitely doesn't consider himself a teacher, but like he he uses the he dresses it up as little as possible. And he says like, you know what? If seeing this stuff can help you travel a little bit lighter, that's what it's all about.
You don't have to have your head blown off and the bottom fall out of the bucket. You can just see that a few of the things that are bothering you aren't you. and then maybe you feel a little bit better, maybe the ride's a little bit smoother.
I think that's the most reasonable way to talk about any of this stuff. The idea that you have to totally lose a sense of personhood, the ego has to be destroyed, you have to look like um Muji or whatever.
I mean, it's I think those are just bad ideas. I think for most people, like bird said, I think for most people, just a little bit of a better perspective is what they're looking for.
You don't want your ego [ __ ] destroyed. That's not what you're looking for.
>> There's not actually not it's not that's not even useful anyway.
>> No. No. Like you have to Ramadan Maharshi literally sat in Sami or like was so gone. He like sat in this cave for years. They built a little fence to keep the animals away from chewing on them and they'd bring them food and feed them. Great. You're looking for that?
Yeah. Right.
Like, okay. No, take me off the list.
Okay, never mind. That's not what I'm looking for. You're right.
I'm unsubscribing from enlightenment.
Um, we got about 20 minutes left. Would Matteo thinks he fixed it. Can we try Can we Can we give it an old Harvard try real quick? Do you think we got enough material to chop up for >> what? Based on everything we just talked for an hour.
>> We did? Okay, sure. We can try it.
>> Hey, Matrayu. I know I'm pronouncing your name wrong.
Come back in. Let's see if we can get it to work. Let me There he is. Let me go to this.
>> Hello, wonderful people.
>> Hello. Wow. I think we fixed it.
>> Sorry. I think it was my fault.
>> Oh, that's okay, dude.
>> Let me make a little louder you guys.
There we go. Can you hear me? I'm gonna keep talking so you can get your audio levels correct. Audio levels. Audio levels.
>> Yeah, it's fine now.
>> Okay. Can you pronounce your name for me so I can keep screwing it up knowingly?
>> Nice e neis.
>> Yeah.
>> Got it. Okay. Andis, welcome to the show, man. I'm glad you made it.
>> Yeah, man. It was uh I'm really sorry, but you know, technical these things are really complicated. read said, "Oh, it's not so." Oh, yes, it is.
>> He was also trying to put the blame on me. I don't know if you heard that. He was saying it was all my fault.
>> Yeah. Now I my my guilt consciousness is even more, you know, because I witnessed how he tortured you. You know, >> it was really But that's okay, you know.
>> Absolutely. It was his fault.
>> A little torture does good.
>> Yeah.
It was a good test for you guys you know and for me too and for our viewers because uh things are not uh most of the time things don't go well so and that's what you were talking about spirituality spirituality would be your reaction to the life challenges so how you react so and that's what makes difference between us >> if you are reacting really strongly and this stress remains in you forever or you are reacting And then after maybe few seconds or maybe few minutes the game over. You are again in balance.
Then you are fine. You are really you established certain nervous system. You brought your lots of awareness into yourself because without lots of space of awareness. Uh our mind is uh cloed up with all kinds this animalistic reactions.
>> So awareness means you clean up this uh this clutter. And you are getting more free space. As you have more free space, you are more spiritual. It's simple as it is.
So can we say that the a spiritual path um in some ways begins when someone recognizes these reactions in themselves and then comes to the place where they're willing and open to changing or being changed.
>> Definitely.
>> Yeah. They see this. there's an awareness of this which I think is that's grace whether or not someone becomes aware of this in the first place but um once they become open to that change then it all starts happening then that's the walk begins and you know I see there are many people who are open to the to changes but unfortunately they cannot uh find the right way to change themsel you guys me you were mentioning all kinds gurus and I don't find them really useful very much especially if we go to all the religions like Jesus, Muhammad and stuff like that. These these individuals and these teachings are more harmful than than useful. So there are many people who are ready you know to evolve to change but unfortunately they get trapped in all kinds uh insufficiently well ideas and instead for progressing they are degrading themselves. They end up in cults. you were mentioning emoji and you know I was in a cult of my guru so that's not really helpful for our development so on this market of all kind spirituality it's very hard to find what is right for us and I think the best is like Bruce Lee said absorb what is useful discard what is not and add what is your own so that principle I follow and I think every reasonable human being should follow. Don't take everything from anyone because we are just humans and we are not even humans. We are human animal and most of us are not even a rational animal and that's our biggest problem. We are I am an ignoramus and the beginning of true spirituality or awareness we the spirituality is outdated. This term is outdated. The beginning of true uh awareness starts when you recognize your ignorance.
As you aware more, you're going to recognize more and more ignorance. Now you're on the right path. And then you're going to realize, oh man, I'm so stupid.
This is unbelievable. I'm so limited.
But you know when people there is a Danny Kruger effect you guys probably know. And the con there was two psychologist American psychologists.
They did tests with their students and they gave them some tests you know and they asked them after tests were done.
What's your opinion? What's your score according to these to to your to you?
They tell uh the the students who had the lowest score they gave the highest score to themsel and those who did it decently and they they have the highest score they underestimated their results in the Conclusion of that experiment is uh as person is dhama the more he uh the more he smart the more he sees self as smarter.
So the person is more stupid the more he thinks he is smarter and that's reality in today world and unless we recognize that stage of our personal evolution when we were claiming oh I am now guru now I I got some spiritual you know experiences now I can heal other people I can you know teach others if you don't go through that stages and you become humble you realize no no I cannot teach anyone The truth the true teacher is in us. If you have this file in your brain and I'm saying something and then you are and that file opens itself that means you had that file the spark the click came from outside but that's why you cannot teach anyone unless that person is mature enough to have that knowledge in themsel but that from outside it needs only a little. So that's when you realize no I cannot teach anyone because I can say something and everyone will take this differently. Some people will say oh this is smart man and the other will say look at this crazy man. So that means that inner development is what matters not outside and today we have really lots of people who are capable to understand but unfortunately they get trapped in all kinds of delusional ideas and I I'm I I was glad to hear Reed is trying to be uh scientical scientific he was trying to find evidence and that's the way to go. We need to be rational.
If we are not rational about our feelings, about our thoughts, about this reality, we are worse than animals.
>> But when when you say, you know, people get trapped by these systems and stuff and I I agree. But um I think, you know, we can't just dismiss systems and teachers outright.
There's think I think there's stage there's there's a stage when I need to be part of a system. There's a stage when I need that structure. There's a stage when I need a certain guru's teachings. there's a stage when I need to leave that guru. I think um I think what what I need is is constantly evolving but to stay stuck at one stage that's a problem to maybe you know Krishna Murdy had a few videos I needed to watch but then I watched for like five more years or something maybe I I needed to leave that behind you know four years earlier because I get stuck there this is the way or whatever but at the time you know what do you think about that >> I agree fully but you see uh we make lots of mistakes they they they haven't been useful for us but we needed them to learn things so these gurus are really helping you to to clarify that you have to be on your own and you cannot accept any human as perfect as so knowledgeable you know in Indian this culture and Indian spirituality they see guru as god so Even guru can be at higher level than god himself and you have this most popular guru called sguru he he he seems to me so arrogant he's saying you know I don't ask God for anything god doesn't need to tell me anything but when he get when he had a brain injury when he had a problem with his brain he has to go to hospital and they perform surgery on his brain if he is so smart if he is so godly why he couldn't fix that little thing in his brain so So we are having lots of claims from lots of individuals but I don't see reflection in their own life that that perfection and in fact sometimes they look more ignorant or about basic life things than me than you than anyone else and you have this in audience some disciples or followers will sit and listen their guru and guru will say something and in your mind will click okay this is not Right? But we have a we are brainwashed when guru says something that has to be right. Maybe you don't understand at that moment or maybe there is divine background for that. So we dismiss their ignorance but they are extremely ignorant. That's why we have to remain completely independent in our mind and uh Krishna Mhorti for me you mentioned Krishna Morti did a lots of harm to people because from one side you have some gurus some teachers who are telling you you have to do something you have to follow discipline you have to practice mindfulness you have to have healthy lifestyle you have to pay attention what you eat you need exercises breathing exercises avoid bad company those are good advices and we really need them but then You have certain gurus like Krishna Morti like Ramana Maharishi they no that's wrong if you are trying anything you are making obstacle and now people are confused we have people who are uh ready to work on themsel but then you have echarto Krishna morti ramanishi who is telling you no you don't need to do anything if you do something you are creating an obstacle that's not true and now people are confused what to do.
Should I do something or should I just wait, buy lottery ticket and just wait?
>> Well, that's that's what I did. So, like I I got caught into that. There's anything I do is like part of the illusion or whatever. I didn't do work.
I'm doing work on myself now that I should have done years ago, but I bought so like early on I got on I had some insight or some experiences with Zen, which is I've had kind of insight experience with a lot of different flavors and they all have their own flavor, but like Zen, I was like, I don't I'm not going to work on myself.
I'm just going to go hard on this and go skip straight to go get enlightenment and then I don't have to deal with the mind at all. And what happened was I slowly went crazier.
Um because enlightenment didn't happen fast enough. So like now I'm like now I'm not seeking enlightenment. I'm I have a mind for well-being. Like what does a balanced structured day look like for me?
I'm interested in just, you know, thriving and then whatever, you know, if there's some kind of something, you know, something something else will click on at some point down the road. I'm I'm sure, you know, but it's not going to be cuz I did it. Um, and you know, I don't need it. It's not like this. Uh, I think a lot of people need enlightenment. They need what the guru is selling. They there there's this promise of freedom that they're desperately craving. And this person is saying, "I have this this secret ticket." Even though they're saying there's no secret ticket, the implication is it's like wink wink.
There's no nothing you can do. But actually, there kind of is. And it involves listening to me.
>> I think it's more human. I think it's this human need or desire to be understood and being in a community of people that feel the same way. I think it's more about that than it is about the actual gurus themselves. It's the hierarchal expression of human communities manifest through the teaching or the teachers because what you just what you described an isis is it did I say it right in?
>> Yep. Yep. you you described like every ashram I went to, every synagogue, every temple, whenever the pastor, the rabbi or the yogi is teaching or talking at a certain point, whether it's 3 minutes in or 15 minutes in, I go, "Okay, that's not entirely true. That's not correct what they're saying." And I can feel the environment itself pressuring me to just drop my own instinct and just go along with the show that they're presenting.
And it's very very it's like an electric it's like I I get like even in AA meetings I'll feel like this is not going this is not speaking to what I would perceive help be helpful to somebody and I it's like it's very difficult for me to be in those spaces.
That's right. And the reason is uh uh the teaching of that guru or that person is not based on rationality and the logic and and constant change constant uh updates. So they are stuck. They don't allow any updates. But knowledge has no limits. And unless you constantly update and check and recheck your conclusions about yourself, about life, about gurus and guru himself should check and recheck themsel. But no, they came to the to the to something and game over. No, the game is not over. And and it's unbelievable how we are how these people called spiritual people are dismissing science.
They think they are some they are communicating with aliens. They are communicating with angels with God. At the same time they are forgetting that we are 99% our DNA is like chimpanzeee DNA should be a little identify oursel with a real thing that we are animals and these people who are and now when I tell them look guys we are animals we have to understand that yes we have potential to be humans and maybe even divine but unless we understand that we are animals we cannot progress from this level. No, if you are animal, I am not an animal. So they get angry and that's exact proof the animals because they are reacting animalistically. They are defending themselves. They are trapped in certain ideas and now someone comes like a fox. Fox get caught in in the trap and you want to liberate that fox but the fox doesn't know what you are trying because that trap and that cognitive capacity is at a very low level and the fox sees you as an enemy and that's what they do. You are coming them come guy come on guys come on come to your senses we cannot just wander away in some ideas and aliens and some all kinds ideas. This is unbelievable.
This is so much show is going on in people's mind and they take that for granted. So if we don't come to our senses and understand what science gave to us what hygiene good hygiene gave to us look at us we are communicate communicating right now miles and miles away and we don't appreciate that they are denying sign they say no this is bad look what they doing to us who is doing to you no one except your own mind but if you purify your mind if you come to your senses and you become rational suddenly you're going to realize What a wonderful life we are in right now. And Adam was saying in his videos, he's saying, "Wow, this is mira miracle. Look at me. I'm now in this body and I'm looking around." That's spirituality.
When you become aware of your physical reality, you become aware, wow, I am alive. But they are they got stuck in their uh minds and they are expressing those animal instincts and they think they are in fourth dimension fifth D but in reality they are in deeper unconsciousness they going at into deeper and deeper sleep and now when you come to tell them let us just be reasonable guys because we have to we we need to health insurance we need free education we need to take care of our environment if we are talking about gods and we are choosing people elect people who are who are feeding those those instincts in you fear and divisions. So we're going to go extinct. No, they don't want. So why? Because they were told that we are special. We are not special. We are evolving from single cell organism three billion years already and finally last last 500 600 millions we are we are complex organisms and the last several millions maybe five seven humans appearing and where was the where were angels at that time where was God at that time 99% of all species got extinct where was God for them no these people completely ignore reality thankfully Y we have science because without this science that we're having right now spirituality cannot be complete gurus Krishna Rama all of them they could not have good explanation about creation without really understanding this physical level and we got through science and now we guys we can be much more spiritual than anyone before us because conditions are met. We have knowledge in this for this about this external world. And now when you work on yourself, you're going to much better understand awareness, ego and intellect and all of these. They could not because they were missing these science that we having right now. Go ahead, Reed. Um I mean I I question the um I mean the extent to which I guess the scientific approach is helpful and maybe you're talking more about a scientific approach but like and I I know you mentioned relying on logic and reason but I find that like there's there's an area where that leaves off for me where logic reason and trying to apply a scientific approach to my life actually starts to affect the quality of my life because I can I can disprove or dismiss through logic and reason a lot of the practices, behaviors, and attitudes that are actually helpful for me. My logical and reasonable framework doesn't account for God. Yet, when I don't account for God, I find um my reality kind of collapses in on itself and becomes more it it doesn't it's like the system or the equation doesn't work anymore. But then when I recognize in my life this expansive quality that comes from whatever it might mean aligning myself with this greater thing that's not explainable through logic, reason or science, then I start getting in contact with um the part of me that's not the the the part of the world that's not the thinking mind. There's something more. And I get I feel that it it it it directs me. And so like my and I don't know what it is.
I'm applying labels like God, but like I have to depart from logic and reason um at a certain point otherwise it it it leads me to like unhappiness and futility. I find greater degrees of peace and expansiveness when I depart from that as my ground of being essentially. Although it's important to apply in context at specific times, but to re rely on that fully just like I'd rely on a teacher, I'm not convinced that that somehow is going to provide me with the answers because my answers seem to come from somewhere else, not from me figuring out anything. my answers appear when I'm not the one producing those answers. Maybe it's a deeper self producing those answers. I don't know.
But it's not through logic or reason that I've reached any of the insights that have truly transformed me. In fact, it's the opposite. Through logic and reason I tend to um corrupt those insights that have transformed me.
Adam, you want to say something or I can reply?
>> Uh, yeah, you go ahead.
>> So, uh, it's not problem about logic and reasoning and to be rational. It's problem that we don't have enough data and that we don't have enough awareness and our mind, our intellect to process all of these. If is lacking enough data, enough experiences, enough awareness. It may seem there is contradiction between log logic and science. No, science is very very involved in this physical realm. But when it comes to psychic, when it comes to awareness, when it comes to our ego, emotions, thoughts and this is where we have to step in. If we are working on ourself and if we if we practice awarefulness, I don't want to I don't like uh the term uh mindfulness because mind itself is just contents.
uh whatever is in our subconscious and unconscious mind what I would call it I would call a awarefulness so if we are practicing awarefulness which is not easy with time awareness will expand I'm not saying you're going to expand now in some kind dimension you're going to just be more aware through your senses and now your logic this scientific rational approach to life you have more light you have more observation uh observation force in yourself and now you're going to get these certain thoughts, new ideas about things. But this doesn't come from God.
It comes you are having more awareness in you and now your brain is more clear and and your brain is uh has more capacity and also if you add uh experiences if you add data if you add experiences other people now your brain is putting all these together and coming up with maybe much better idea much better conclusion than what other people had but we need awareness but awareness is not enough. uh Adam had very good awakening. He went beyond mind. He was aware but he didn't get any extra knowledge. Even awareness needs senses and needs experience. If you if you bring Jesus right now and put him on the bike, he would go sideway. He wouldn't know how to ride bike. So when they when they talking about awareness, oh awareness is all knowing. No, awareness is just pure screen. So when you have this purity in your mind like a child you are able to comprehend easier you don't have prejudices but still you need experiences and that's why when you talk to gurus you can see if they don't have experience they come from India they got enlightened maybe at young age like Osho in 22 so you cannot learn much from them yes they're going to tell you be witness you don't identify with thoughts but when it comes to life itself self and how to achieve that level that they are in. You have no right instructions. Why?
Because you need experience as much as you can. You cannot talk about sexuality if you don't have experience in sexuality. So when whatever is for everything is needed experience and now the awareness which is in us pick ups all these things and makes that all mix that all together and come up with intelligent uh conclusion but it's still illogical. Logic was always our friend rational thinking was always our friend friend but we are we are missing experiences. If I don't have experience with my chakras, if I don't don't have experience with kundalini, of course I'm going to think oh there is no logic of oh there is logic in everything there are rule r rules and laws everything work according to certain processes but we don't have enough awareness enough experience to recognize how all all of this is functioning but it's getting better and a little by little we're going to have real knowledge about these things and it will it will be not anymore more. I have my truth. You have your truth. You have your beliefs. I have my No. When it comes to science, we know what is objective reality. I am an electrician. When I was in the US, I worked I worked no problem. When I was in Afghanistan, in Iraq, I worked no problem. When I was in Germany, right now in Boston, no problem. Science is uh related to objective reality. But also psyche, emotions, thoughts, awareness, they are part of existence. They are also under these laws but we don't have enough experience and and that's why our brain is not able to come up with the right conclusion about it. I am not confused at all about anything regarding this. I don't need God to get inspired and feel connected. I need life. Life is here and now. You can call it God.
Just be more and more alive and then you're going to feel bliss, peace, love and you will see there is something in you which wants to optimize you constantly to to make better version of you. And and Adam said in his video thoughts are not creating reality. Life is creating reality. And that's why he he is ignoring thoughts. But when you tell this to people who are stuck in their minds, the only way they know is those thoughts. And now you tell them, hey guys, thoughts are just, you know, appearing, disappearing. You shouldn't pay attention to them. Oh, no, no, no.
Thoughts can bend reality. No, they cannot.
So life is really what matters. And now we have to change those terms. No more God, no more all these, you know, when people were ignorant, people could not invent toilet paper. And you're going to listen their uh explanation of of creation. People are still reading these books so-called holy books and those people didn't have underwear. If you don't if you are not cap if you are not capable to make underwear how you can tell me anything about the life but you know I can claim I am sent from God I am the one okay prove to me give me something useful invent something no they don't invent anything they're just claiming I talk to angels I talk to some kind you know higher beings give us some some kind invention guy we have so many needs right now we have we have so many problems And you guys are talking to some other higher civilizations, some galactic civilizations. Why don't bring us something tangible? No, just talking and talking and talking.
Hey, sorry guys. I am a really very rational. I I am in awareness. I'm in spirituality. But I I uh realize that we are so delusional that we are destroying ourself. Look at these wars. Look at what we are. We cannot control. We cannot. People are talking about telekinesis and they say, "Hey, for two years I'm trying telekinesis. I sweat when I perform those exercises." Then I'm saying, "What about us kinesis? How if we force oursel to clean our apartment? How if we lift up, raise our ass to do some exercises? Should we start with that type kinesis?" Because telekinesis is moving the object with your mind. But you cannot move your ass from the from from the couch. And now you are trying to bend the reality with your mind. That will never happen.
I I'm not sure. So I hear what you're Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I just I I temper it with um I mean I I you know maybe this is my lack of experience or something but uh you know I think there is something more than data gathering coupled with awareness. I don't think that uh um >> but didn't you say at the very beginning you can only know your own brain like that's >> that's that and that speaks to the need for there's for something outside of that to be providing information. I can't no one no one can no one is ever going to da gather all the data necessary to live um I just I I feel that I have experience with an organizing principle that has data beyond what any group of people could have yet is seems to be able to coordinate them in a way um that's to a higher degree than any single person with any amount of data could have coordinated um and I see this happen over and over in in different groups.
And so I just I continue to have experiences with some kind of principle that has data outside what any human or group of humans would or could have beyond just a lack of life experience.
Um so I >> But you're saying that you're saying you have this data but it's not coming from your own from yourself. I'm >> saying I don't have the data and something allows me to act on data I don't have.
I don't have the data. I'm never I'm never going to have I'm never going to have no one's ever going to have perfect data. Like so like there there's an extent to to how far we can lean on logic and reason because I mean um you have you're trusting in something. So you're trusting in data and you're trusting your mind not to have warped that data. And then if we're trusting science, we're trusting the the limit or extent of our senses. and it's applicable in the right context. But I think when it comes to u life, you know, you know, you could say that life itself has the data, but my brain doesn't need the data. There's something like life as a force almost as an emergent phenomenon itself is able to orchestrate um movements. I mean I I see the in a way I see like the real organism is humanity as a whole or the real organism is actually the earth and that different types of people emerge in order to fulfill different roles in society and the human organis the human organism creates the people it needs to do the task like humanity itself knows what individuals need to be doing that can be tapped into and there like a whole and fulfilling life can be lived when it's in resonance with what this kind of greater thing has has for us has um but so that that can't be well also everything's going on internally for you as well. Your own passions, your own desires, your own interests, your own attractions. So you've got the what the world what the world is asking of you to be. But then you also have yourself emerging into being through that world.
>> That limited inner self almost um in a way uh in some way conflicting with that. And that's like why like I experience greater peace with that inner self is diminished. But not I'm not squashing myself. I'm relinquishing what's not me or what's not in alignment.
So like if there's a me like it's not some it's not an isolated individual like there's the system works together and so I I think there's I think that speaks to like there's definitely a lot going on that science does not even have the ability to conceptualize of. And so there's relying fully on logic, reason, and science as they are now.
Um, we could potentially by relying on that we could potentially cut ourselves off from something much beyond that that has the ability to organize us. I don't think >> science >> go ahead.
>> Science works for spirituality. What we call spirituality uh science comes from awareness.
Scientists are spiritual people. They are more spiritual than these new age delusional people and these religious believer who are not even aware through of true motivation why they are in certain religion. They are driven by fear. They are driven by earth to socialize to create certain hurts and we find that in animal kingdom they they love to follow some alpha male or alpha female and those are animalistic qualities. So scientists they are also having feelings they have instincts but they are trying to be objective and this is the beginning of of awareness awareness is neutral awareness is not biased awareness is fully indifferent that's what science does science is product of awareness so science is and that's how we supposed to be in spirituality what we call we should be scientific >> and when it comes to science science is a method to find God of this reality which is matter. This reality is driven by God called matter. No one can bend this reality with their minds. So you have to know how this reality is working.
Gravity doesn't forgive. Entropy doesn't forgive. So people were we were having all kinds hocus pocus teachings through our history and we didn't and we know what was the life the the average lifespan of people 30 years mortality w was 50%. So we didn't have anything. We were our hygiene was zero. We had infections. We had diseases. We were killing each other. That was unbelievable. We were worse than animals. And suddenly we we got science and we improved. But unfortunately people are still in the caves mentally.
They didn't evolve. We can thank just to few percent of humanity few% of people for this progress that we made. The majority people 99% of people don't contribute to our development but they are complaining of everything but they are not even knowing they don't know how to use this technology let alone to create so we have ungrateful masses who are constantly complaining they don't contribute anything to progress of of humanity and that's why we are struggling right now but they think they know and I mentioned Dani Kruga effect the nama person is the smarter they think they are and they don't realize they are dumb and I was dumb and I'm still dumb. So unless you admit you are dumb and you are trying to to find to come up with some conclusions but accept first your ignorance and now if you would accept that we that no one knows really everything then we would we would become more humble. We would stop fighting each other. I wouldn't claim hey my god I know God I know truth this is my holy land you don't know that you are just guessing you have few books you have some kind you know feelings about it but that's not reality so we are having issues that most people are not rational we we don't need expect from people to come to higher awareness we need from people to to become rational for physical real for this physical world and our society we don't need spiritual people. We need rational people and those who claim they are spiritual. They are so ignorant and they are the biggest enemy of humanity because they are not using prefrontal cortex. They are not objective about their emotions, about their ideas. They are programmed, conditioned and they think they are spreading some kind of wisdom which will save all of us. No, you are spreading ignorance and you are shutting down prefrontal cortex of people. So in my book and that can my book can be downloaded for free. It's in PDF. It's called the life manual and I am uh that book is intended for evolution for the evolution of human species. I'm explaining we are human homoan animal and we are not even homo animal rale. So we are homoan animal beast beastia and we are homalimal obvis hom animal sheep and homo animal sentimentality when you are positive when you are empathy empath and stuff like that you are still driven by these urges they could be positive or negative you are still not using your preferrontal cortex you are not objectively analyzing your reactions to this you are just following your feelings your instincts so only After homoan animal beast beast obvice and sentimental comes homoan animal rational. Someone who is not driven by their feelings. Yes we have feelings but you cannot listen feelings. You cannot listen your gut feeling your inner guru voice. No forget about it man. But we are >> I think that's not true. In my experience that's not true. And I >> I so like I have I I would be all on board with like the kind of >> um I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I I would I would be more on board with it totally like with the purely rational animal or whatever like transcending that kind of animal state with rationality. But my I've had too many irrational experiences for me to get on board with trusting rationality.
I've had too many things that don't make sense, aren't explainable, yet have been changed my life and been transformative in ways that I could not plan, could not enact on my own, and was not subject to rationality or data. Um, I've had that happen too many times for I' I've seen that happen in other people.
unexplainable, irrational encounters or occurrences that change the trajectory of one's life in a way that's unexpected. That's not wasn't new data that was downloaded. It wasn't increased awareness. It's like there's a or maybe that's part of it, but it's like if there's new data downloaded, where did it come from? There's this reservoir of universal data that can be implanted into someone through an outside agency. that would seem to be borne out by the experiences. Can you test that in a laboratory? I don't know.
But just because you can't, I don't think you can dismiss it. And you know, science is great for material progress, but I'm not sure that people are um necessarily like, you know, we're not as sick today, but I don't know if people are just thriving with happy, joyous lives right now. I don't know that science has solved the problem of anxiety and depression. It seems to actually be exacerbating the problem.
And we're on the brink of destroying the whole thing with the great achievements of science in the form of weapons of mass destruction. So like I don't really credit science with doing just across the board great things. It's used for terrible things, but it's it's used for good things. But I don't think we're we aren't progressing or evolving through science.
I think the ego is evolving through science. I don't think our like who we are like our core selves are evolving through the material world ever. We need to return to huts and sticks and I think we'd be hundred times happier honestly.
But you see uh for inner happiness for inner fulfillment we cannot expect external world to to make up that >> to fix that and that's the problem of masses they are at the level of animals.
Animal when is fed up with everything has a roof above the head has food can reproduce and everything will be okay.
But human animal cannot be okay because human animal suppressed suppressed its fe her or his feelings through life. So now when you are relaxed doing nothing there is tension appearing and now you think the cause is your life is bad something something's going to happen.
No, the life force want to to flow through you. When you are focused on something, play computer games, stuff like that, the life force goes through you. But as soon your attention doesn't go somewhere, so you are blocking the flow of that life force block go.
>> What is the life?
>> Attention. Let's call it let's call it attention. let's call it light beam which is coming from that what we call universal consciousness. So we are little uh narrow expression of that universal consciousness and universal >> the science can can we agree that that's something that's not really explainable in terms of logic reason or science or the current data.
>> Oh yes. Oh yes. But you see problem with science uh they became allergic to anything spiritual because really because of so-called spirituality we were struggling and we were suffering and even today Socrates 400 BC 400 years BC he said the only good is knowledge the only evil is ignorance and you know what happened to him they killed killed him so because he didn't believe in gods of that time and he was polluting the youth minds So if we stayed with that principle, the only good is knowledge, the only evil is ignorance, today we would be travel between stars. But we had these people, believers whose prefrontal cortex is shut down and they kept people not thinking freely and this is where we are right now. So, and that's the problem with what we call and science became allergic because they pro prosecuted scientists. They prosecuted smart people. They killed smart people. And they are completely right. Let's get rid of all these beliefs and these beliefs.
Let's have evidence. When we have evidence, we come up with conclusions.
And that's fine. Now, they are also coming that something higher is existing. Even science of physical leads you there is something beyond physical.
We just need to give time to science.
They will come to this point of our consciousness and so on. Let's say Einstein he said the all fundamental forces and particles in the universe are different manifestations of the single underlying field.
But an Einstein didn't know even our feelings and thoughts are also manifestations of that single underlying field called life. You can call it Brahman, you can call it cosmic consciousness, you can call it nirvana.
That is the ultimate uh layer of this existed existence where all these duality is coming from. But we don't need to bother when it comes to physical and our life between in our family and also between states because for that we need science and we need secular uh you know societies we should stay away from these beliefs and build and build and these beliefs that's your inner world.
So how I feel inside based on my spirituality based on what I do to help myself that doesn't matter that will not affect physical reality. In physical reality we have to follow science. We have to be reasonable and to understand how this physical reality is operating.
The biggest problem is people don't have clear boundaries between knowledge and superstition. So they have a little knowledge like Joe Dispensza he's talking about something logical then he add to it all kinds superstition and then these little glimpses maybe of usefulness which are based in objective reality they get lost completely and people get harmed from a religion people get harmed from new age. So we need to really establish clear boundaries between inner world and the and awareness and also physical physical is not affected but by our thoughts and feelings. We should forget that because no one can prove that. So there are there are inst institutes who give who are giving million dollars price if you can in in in a in a scient scientific controlled environment perform some kind special ability no one was able to do that people came no one was able to do we have to stop believing this hocus pocus affecting real this reality it doesn't work prayer doesn't work believing this believing doesn't change object objective reality but inside The only way how we know that you are really spiritual not according to some abilities is are you happy person? Are you rational person? Are you peaceful?
>> I don't know. Prayer changes my reality all the time.
>> Say again.
>> Prayer changes my reality all the time.
Um but it's not like I'm trying to move objects with prayer or create a create numbers in my bank account. But um I mean my reality includes my internal experience and it seems to change um my it changes my experience of reality. Um so it has >> but not it's not it's not in the way that I think is popularly conceptualized.
Um but I I have to actually I have to go. Um I'm we're we're going on a road trip and a I'm already kind of late, but um yeah, sorry to >> That's okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah, thank you. Yeah, good conversation. Um thanks, Adam.
Y'all keep >> Okay. Yeah, >> y'all keep at it. Like, yeah. Sorry, I have to leave in the middle of the the talk.
>> Oh, that's okay. Have a good trip.
>> All right. Thank you. Y'all y'all keep doing your thing and then >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Let me know what you come up with.
>> All right. See you later.
>> See you.
>> Bird says bye.
>> Bye.
>> Bye.
>> Bye.
>> All right. Let me fix the screen here just so I can get it >> looking appropriate. Yeah, I'm I'm really appreciate your perspective on everything. I want to get We're in the dis you're in the Discord channel now.
Will you link your book in the Discord so I can look at it? And I definitely I want to I want to get your story. I want to have you on my my show where you just you and I can sit down and we can just you can share cuz I'm I'm super curious about how you arrived at your perspective and you mentioned being in a cult. You mentioned and I know you mean kind of like just an organization. I'm curious to know what what how you fell into it, whatever organization it was and then what made you start to see what you you've been expressing through the course of this dialogue.
>> I agree. I agree. It's interesting story uh as well as your is interesting. I I watched a couple of your videos and where you were explaining uh your uh opinion about the law of attraction and your conclusions are really well. I was a little worried. I was thinking okay will he now fit in that narrative? Okay, we can affect reality thoughts as most powerful thing in the universe. And then you thankfully had that experience beyond mind when you saw that you are not even your thoughts. And this these experiences are necessary for us when we are talking about these things because without having these experiences we cannot really understand.
Experience is needed for everything.
Yeah. Man, it's hard. It's hard to the uh it seems like the the the um the process is a process of language uh to describe these types of things to not mislead or appropriate because I agree with what you were saying appropriate these things as being otherworldly because that's not what this is.
And you see when the read was saying that prayer helped him. We attribute stuff because we don't understand full picture and then we come to with this partial conclusion. Oh, this happens happened because of this. No, it didn't.
But do we have enough courage? Do are we brave enough and honest enough to really explore till the end? Whatever happens if I get uh you know if my delusions get broken fine. No, we don't want and that's when we are in those feelings when we are at animal level feelings are stronger than our prefrontal cortex and we are not able to challenge our the opinions our conclusions I have tests when I am communicating with higher being when I hear voice from God I said God I I I hear some voice you know male strong voice I I am asking who is that he said I am God I said oh okay wonderful before We continue. I said, can I ask you a question instead of course? Can you tell me what is the square root of number seven?
Silence.
You know what I do? I ask the question that I don't know answer to. And what happens? Even if I get an answer, I when I wake up or when I come back from meditation, I take calculator and the answer was always wrong.
So yeah, I that's that's that's a great litmus test. I think I think what Reed was pointing to and I'd be curious to know your perspective on I don't know if you've listened to the the recent episode with Roman, but Roman Roman had an experience where he entered a pit of despair that facilitated a change in his life. And then I was while Reed was talking, I was thinking about how I got off of drugs and alcohol when I finally stopped. It was an it was a in a lot of ways I used to attribute the power of prayer in that process as being being part of the process but it actually whatever it was that occurred was was before prayer.
Prayer was just a a manifestation or expression of something that had already occurred or already was or already is. It's hard to it's hard to say, but I I guess I wanted to ask I want to ask you is like where do you see the you know I I feel like the individual will continue creating a dream for themselves whether they're aware of it or not or whe whether they're willing to be wrong or not. So what is it would you attribute that g brings someone into a space where they're actually able to feel the discomfort of their own delusion or discomfort of their own thought to experience some sort of a shift or a change.
Evolution has own ways to force us to evolve from our delusions. It's called suffering.
So there will be probably you would not you would not be interested in stuff like this if you didn't suffer. If you didn't feel man this cannot continue it cannot continue like this anymore that what ma that what made me to go on path of selfdevelopment because I wasn't happy so as long we are hypnotized in this auto hypnosis and life is okay to us we don't really have this self-preservation instinct kicked in so and we will not leave our comfort zone so we cannot help so the certain conditions from evolution standpoint point have to be fulfilled for an individual life to keep evolving. So that's all. So person may be a good listener. He he he likes to talk about it but he has no courage or he's not honest or he's lazy. He doesn't want to do any work. So there are several conditions five six good requirements for us to really start to awake. So you can find several conditions fulfilled but that person is still lacking several more or one more and he will not proceed. He's going to still remain in his auto hypnosis. So in your case you probably fulfilled all these requirements and when I'm talking about rationality I see you are not reacting because you are at that this point and to come to that point that you are in right now those people are rare that because there are so many go ahead >> well I'm I'm curious like h how how do you navigate the terrain given the circumstance of discomfort effort and challenge to create a shift like how how do you not how do you keep yourself from becoming too comfortable in your own view or experience of yourself?
>> You see you already tasted there is something more than what meets the eyes.
So you're going to keep proceeding and this experience that you had opened your eyes to another reality and you know all these mind games religious stuff uh new age stuff you know those people are just stuck in their minds. So you this this experience gave you so much advantage compared with those who didn't have that experience. So you are safe. You know what reality is and now only how what methods you're going to use to keep to coming closer to this reality to keep coming closer to this reality and that's the only so you people get still they people have experience but they know how to again achieve that and that's the problem but in my opinion you're going to keep searching >> you're going to you're going to keep testing >> and I offer also certain techniques and you will probably not find what is the best for you and you're going to just keep evolving and that's it and you you you overcame the most difficult part the mind you will not stuck you will not stuck in your mind because you you saw mind as something separated from you you know that you are observer and these people they they think I'm do I I'm going to do this I had ND near that experience and I got mission what kind mission you can get when you don't exist as an individual. You don't exist man. This talker in our mind is coming from our intellect and we are constantly talking to ourself and when you stop talking you don't exist and now you think you have some mission. How you going to have submission when you are not even existing as an individual and and you are got lucky and this how you had this experience maybe there are reasons you said you didn't you don't know why that happened. I know why that happens. So I can we can analyze what happened to you. Maybe your sexual energy was on high level because one condolini is sexual energy. In order to experience something higher you have to be sexually really potent. So at that time if you were in celibacy and you you had good sexual energy and also if you had good concentration which is one more requirement and you were surrendering to to the present you met those conditions for energy to rise.
So there is everything can be explainable you know >> what where did you come from? What what's uh you're in Boston right now?
>> Bosnia and herugina that's southern Europe.
Wow. Okay. How did you find how did you find our our channels and all that?
>> YouTube YouTube, you know, offered me some of your video. And you know what I'm thinking this what we are talking about. It's not really desirable for people.
So, >> well, it it is though. It really is though because because you're describing you're using your language to describe what is seen from this vantage point.
like you're using language like I don't know like the the biggest issue for me was having to catch up to what happened to me. I didn't have words or I didn't have any I've not had any real language to describe any of this stuff because it's it's not knowable from my vantage point. None of this stuff and like what you just said is I believe is the truth. Anytime I think I know what the next thing is or what should or could happen, I'm off. So if I think I know, I'm screwed.
But you may know, you may know because you you jumped, you skipped skipped lots of stages when you hit beyond your mind.
You skipped lots of these layers of minds of mind. So now you know what is beyond mind. But there are many layers of in our mind which we have to go through when we go systematically cleaning up that that contents of our mind. But you went beyond your mind. Now you know whatever happens on this path of mind purification whatever demons you may face whatever schizophrenic state you may go in you will still let it go because you know you are pure awareness and that's so helpful because without this we may get you know feeling oh I'm going to die something I get crazy no that's your mind movie playing your ego got stuck but you know who you are and that that's so helpful for you, man. You got blessed from life, >> man. Dude, that's it's I'm trying to figure out if if if you're say you're saying this to me, but if if you're saying it to yourself as well. I'm trying to figure out.
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But how I would know about you if I didn't go through that myself?
>> So, I went through all of that. That's what saved me. I had experienced at the time the screen and my mind my my uh all this world external world was just playing movie on that screen and I was just silent to witness nothing I wasn't involved in this drama at all I was just witnessing from my transcendental state and that's when I knew whatever happens to me it's still drama mind drama I will let it go and I went through hell man I went through hell So it's not easy, you know. That's why people are stuck in in the minds because you have to go really through hell.
>> Do you think that >> it's not Go ahead.
>> I'm sure you might explain it. I'll have to read your your book when you link it in. Do you do you think there's a process if somebody So like I I always I guess why I do what I do is I I I feel like I really would hope that somebody doesn't have to go all the way through hell that if they experience just their threshold for discomfort was enough like it doesn't have to go as far down as Do you know what I mean? Like do you do you think that there's a process? Do you think there's something someone could do to begin examining themselves?
>> Definitely. because there is some unnecessary suffering. Uh let's say when it comes to diet, I tried many diets. I was vegetarian for decades and I didn't know that that was affecting my health.
So I became a vegan. Then I became a raw food eater. Then I became futarian. So I injured I hurt my body because I didn't know. So now I can tell other people when that when I fe when I see them in the same conditions where I was I tell them look it's related to a diet. No no no no I thought I thought also it's no no but and now when they change they don't need to suffer like I was suffering. That's why I wrote this book to help people finally to understand your ego, your level of development that you don't go to this new age stuff and that you don't waste your time that you just understand you have to become more aware and more rational and have healthy lifestyle.
That's it. Don't worry about gods and stuff like that. And so you are right, we can help people when we because we are p pioneer pioneers. So we are right now we are having a really uh concrete systematical uh approach to what we call spirituality and in my three decades four decades I went through lots of things all kinds of teachings I tried and I made many mistakes and now I learned and now all these other people are who are getting my information from me they don't need to suffer they don't need to struggle when it comes to sexuality for example we have two ways we have celibacy You suppress sexuality, you are in ignoring that or you go to tantra and now sexuality becomes your path toward higher consciousness. And both of these paths are not well. They're not good. So because if you are emphasizing too much sexuality, it can be problem. You're going to wake Kundalini. But if you are ignoring completely, you are you are missing the main energy which has to be transformed into higher frequency. And I went through both these uh uh extremes and I learned how to find the middle path and I'm now speaking about it you know and these people easily who who works with me who is practicing with me my my students let's call them students I call them I call them friends they quickly realize how to help themsel regarding sexuality but I but I had to go through condalini awakening I have to be schizophrenic for years because I didn't know what I'm going into I think you were practicing dowoism. Am I right?
>> Uh, >> Chinese dowoism.
>> Well, you mentioned it.
>> Once I once I discovered Daoism, I discovered uh it silenced my mind. There was nothing to practice. So, it wasn't like I just realized I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this ancient text that all these people have alluded to is mystical and it's it's doing something to me. It's Have you guys seen this?" That's what it was like for me. I don't I wouldn't say I practiced it. I just use it as kind of a tool to to describe what it what my experience is like.
>> Hey, you see Adam, you wasted really lots of time when I came in. Uh I I had a technical issues. I I you know, I affected your life. Maybe it's enough for you. I can talk and talk but maybe next time me and you we sit and then we talk a certain subject because I'm pretty much involved when it comes into sexuality when we are talking about chakras when we are talking about mind awareness and stuff like that and maybe when you check my book then you can have more questions for me then we can talk something concrete >> because all your all the uh before noon will be spent on this life. I don't want you, you know, you you have family and also you're a busy man.
>> Well, I mean, I've I've got some time now. Yes. Let's schedule this. I just one last question because I'm so curious and and we'll schedule because what I want to do is I really want to get your your story. I want to hear your story like what what your life your life story. Um >> y >> can you just maybe this will just be the last one for now. You mentioned the diet. Um, could you share a little bit about what you learned about your own diet and maybe you could help me a little bit?
>> Yep. Yep. So I was when I was a vegetarian I was eating three or four meals a day because I thought I'm eating healthy but my diet was based on carbohydrates and I'm wondering why I didn't get diabetes because I was pre-diabetic diabetical already because if I don't eat few hours I I I'm trembling you know I feel I'm shaky so my blood sugar would go down but I was vegetarian we were my yoga friends we are all vegetarian our guru is saying you cannot achieve higher level of consciousness if you are not vegetarian. So and I also love animals and I'm thinking about our planet how to protect planet. So there are many reasons why someone would be vegetarian but the reality is not as such. So and when I was 50 I was getting my sporadic issues that I had you know sometimes back pain became chronical chronic so and I was changing my diet. Then I went to extreme from from vegetarian through vegan through raw food eater to futarian but I destroyed my health. My back hurts my libido my sexual you know potential was so low I was so sleepy and I what's going on with me I tried meat then I felt even worse but I ate lot and my whole microbiome was adapted to to plants so I shouldn't you know so quickly go to meat. So then I tried once more but this time I ate just little and uh in seven days while I back but I also learned about fasting eat one meal a day and this combination of fasting and coming back to meat and eggs I got my health back I got my immune system back so my libido became better than when I was 20 and it's unbelievable it's I am so sorry that I have to eat meat. I really enjoy watermelon. I en I I enjoy fruit. I would live on fruit but it it ruins my health. So my suggestion is for people to to test on themsel and as I see this these proteins and fat which come from animal they are much more uh superior to the to plants uh proteins and fat and I know through my own experience.
So I don't know what's your diet but if you are not having meat eggs so you are missing the the the best fuel for our body but also we need to eat less I eat just once a day and that's it fasting autophagy and when we eat meal avoid uh to avoid carbohydrate to to you know you can combine especially you younger than me but if I eat just one apple after my meal meal. I'm again getting sick. So, I lowered my carbohydrates a lot. I eat bread, maybe salad with meat, eggs, and that's it.
And everything changed.
And you're going to feel that you are healing. If you have any issue, you're going to feel you will start to heal because the high blood sugar is the biggest problem today of humanity.
And you can use your mind power. You can try with your prayer but also change your diet and start fasting.
You will not be healthy.
>> Well, that's great.
>> Your bliss, your peace, your harmony with nature will not help you because this body is affected by the fuel we are putting in. And carbohydrates are really and grains and stuff like that. They are not really good for us.
But I didn't learn that this from guru.
My guru still is vegetarian. He has high blood pressure, high cholesterol. He's getting insulin injection insulin every day. He had seven stance in his veins.
He has pacemaker.
So he is sick. But we were thinking he's taking our karma that's why he got sick.
No gurus are sick because they are vegetarian and they eat poor diet and too much sugary stuff. That's why they are sick. Not because of karma.
>> Is he still your guru?
>> No. Am I still with my guru?
>> Yeah.
>> No. No. No.
>> Okay. This was then.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was before. He could destroy me with his teachings because he was spreading also Hinduism. You know what they do? They they cannot offer you clear knowledge and clear practical techniques. We should delete all unnecessary stuff. we should update whatever needs to be updated. No, they don't do that. They dress the way uh you know their ancestors dressed. They are using mantras in Hindu. Why we need that? So what are uh what are main principles uh behind what we with behind our activities when you find those principles if you are fighter you want to fight the main principle is you have to know how to fight not how you look you know you perform some exercises they are beautiful but then comes an ordinary man and slaps you game over your dancing will not help you you see so people lost people are not able to go to the bottom Why we are doing something? What is the real meaning of it? No, the meaning is not important. We are talking about God.
So we are talking about God. But where is God? Oh God, maybe God is here. No, no, no. Let me show you in the Bible.
You see, and God supposed to be here, but no. So people lost what is like, you know, pointing to the moon with your finger. They're all discussing about finger. Look at this my finger. Come out and enjoy my finger. put my finger in your mouth. Let me put my finger in your preferrontal cortex.
And that's what we do. So, uh diet is really for physical body. Diet is number one. Air is also then important.
Sleeping is important, physical exercises. And when you bring these several, you know, four, five conditions, physical physically you're going to feel better and better. But diet is number one, >> man. Okay. Well, then to be to be continued. Um, thank you.
>> You answered the you answered my question. Um, >> I'm I'm great. I'm so glad we got the technical difficulties sorted and you were able to come on the show and and we'll get back together. We'll plan a time and you and I will sit down and uh uh we'll continue the dialogue.
>> Thank you very much, Adam. And just uh I'm going to send you link in in your Discord account.
>> Yes. somewhere and you can check out my book because you are so reasonable man and I that's my family. I'm looking for rational people because we're going to go extinct with all these delusional stuff what's going on. Everyone is threatened. We look what they are doing to us. What they are doing to you? You are sitting on the couch. You go to fridge grab food. You didn't wake up in the morning and chase some animal to get the food. You go on toilet. You let it go. You open the window. when you come back everything is clear again and I remember when we had a toilet outside and every yard was smelling bad because you know there is no this sewage system so people don't respect what we got and that's why I'm trying we need this society we need this human form if we go extinct those people who died already they are not able to incarnate and if I don't achieve nirvana in this life I'm going to need body too so I have to fight that we remain at least rational, not spiritual. Forget about awareness.
That we remain rational about our physical health, about the primary primary things in our life and that we keep this planet functioning and this human society available to us if we have to reincarnate again. And maybe you and me, this is maybe our last life. You have potential and I think I have too. So maybe we're going to help maybe from the other side as a spirit.
I'm joking, you know. Forget about spirits. I don't need any spirit. I'm saying if Jesus came or Muhammad and he brought a roll of toilet paper, that would be helpful.
>> But to come and just talk talk and everyone mouth smells bad, our armpit smells bad, full of parasites and they're talking about God. Give me something practical. Don't just talk talk I don't need that that's why I appreciate science you know it really help us helped us to become humans otherwise we would be how we would be dressed right now if we did have science you know some animal you know fur of animal skin and me and you walking through the forest and tiger jumps on your back and you god there is no god you would be eaten by that tiger so we are lucky ones that we are in this time right now because our parents they didn't have this privilege that we have right now and we are at the edge now when we have all potential but if we don't participate in this uh awareness awakening and great uh great uh gratitude awakening gratitude for we already what we already have and to bring people to prefrontal cortex. So we're going to lose all of this. We're going to get again go back to the stone ages age and people will have again their gods. They gonna pray but no one will have underwear stuff like so. So Adam thanks thank you very much and thank you to your viewers man and I'm looking forward to that we again discuss these are very important things because we are talking about life and how we can activate this brain to scan itself to check out those files to delete that system junk cookies caches in our brain there is lots of stuff but this uh this brain which is completely in I would say mal for functioning thinks knows everything and now you have these people when they come together they are discussing with this uh this deficient brain what's going on how to solve problems hey you have to start from yourself check your brain no no no let me tell you what to do forget about me I'm okay so that's what happens now we uh people are really not aware about these basic things that we become I'm a really rational human being, rational animal. Sorry.
So that's it, my friend.
>> Okay. Well, yeah. Thanks everybody for jo joining. Good to see you here, Simon Bird. I hope you have a good rest of your afternoon, morning, evening, or good night. And uh at Matraa to be continued.
>> Yeah. Hey guys uh please support this channel. Support this channel. This is beautiful channel. I will talk to my people on my YouTube channel. I know our brain is always programmed not to give anything because we are always feeling give it to us and that's not fault of people. So when you tell hey give me a like give me a like and that's the brain this animal animal brain kicks in because he's afraid for self-preservation. What if I give something from me? So I I may lose. So this brain is constantly afraid to give.
But if you want to be really human, we have to train ourselves to give. So whenever you see some video, whenever you find short video and you laugh about this video, give a like to that person who created that video. This way you're helping yourself to evolve into human stage where you're going to just keep giving and creating and loving and supporting. That's a true our nature human nature is to support to give to always get everyone on on at good level.
But if you are okay no it's not I don't need to like so your animal brain is telling you preserve your resources and this way you're going to preserve your resources but you're going to remain an animal. So if you want to evolve and and go to abundance and get from the source love peace and bliss you have to start giving. So, we need to support these people who are really supporting humanity like Adam. Adam, thank you very much, man.
>> Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll see you next time.
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