‘Need to be monitored’: Former AFP det supt on ISIS brides returning to Australia

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]Go back to the 13 ISIS brides and their children who will arrive back in Sydney and Melbourne this afternoon. It is expected that they could be greeted with charges on arrival. So, joining us live now is the former AFP detective superintendent David Craig. Um thanks for your time this morning, David. So, first of all on these charges, how likely are they and on what grounds if we start there?

[00:00:21]Uh good morning, Peter. Thanks for having me on your show. Look, um it it depends what charges they are actually bringing. If they are a declared terrorist uh zone offenses, um then that all they need to prove is that they were actually in a terrorist declared terrorist zone and that they knew that at the time. Um however, I'm hoping that the AFP, and it does seem like they are looking beyond these basic sort of uh terrorist offenses into crimes against humanity and other um aiding and abetting genocide. These are crimes that other ISIS brides have been successfully prosecuted against uh with in Germany. There's been eight different prosecutions and they are serious crimes, the most serious crimes um on the planet. And they are the ones That is what's called full force of the law.

[00:01:03]Yeah, and look, they were in Syria, so they were there. That's uh that's enough proof, isn't it?

[00:01:09]Well, it's certainly enough proof for the declared area uh offense. Um it's it will need a little bit more proof in relation to whether they were keeping uh young girls and women as Yazidi slaves.

[00:01:20]Um that's where the crimes against humanity come in, Peter, with >> Got you.

[00:01:24]>> slave trade trading was uh a published and um well-documented process with ISIS. And most ISIS brides had slaves, and the trading of slaves in a war zone um is a war crime.

[00:01:38]>> Yeah. Um and and also when the husbands uh were killed or away, the wives kept the ladies in uh in sexual in sexual and and slavery conditions. Mhm. How much of a risk to the community are they?

[00:01:55]That's really hard to say, Peter, and it certainly we we need to um keep a balance in relation to the approach for these people. We The ones that aren't arrested and charged, the ones that are able to walk into a community, they need to be monitored.

[00:02:10]I'm hoping that the AFP has in place um control orders. Now, these aren't required to be at the same level as a a criminal court. They're just based on the balance of probability. So, intelligence can be used and this can set um measures in place to control their behavior and reduce risk.

[00:02:30]Just more on that. I'm I'm interested about surveillance and what resources would be applied here. I mean, would it be constant 24 hours um >> [snorts] >> what like bugs etc. What goes on?

[00:02:42]It's really interesting, Peter. It depends every There's no blanket control order. So, each one is tailored specifically to the person and their circumstances. So, at one end of the of the scale, we might have someone just reporting like they would in mild conditions to the police once or twice a week. At the other at the end of the end of the scale, there is um you know, electronic monitoring, GPS monitoring, geo-fencing. So, alerts are raised if they leave a particular area. They can be bans on encrypted apps. There can be bans on meeting particular people. They can have surprise visits.

[00:03:17]So, they can be quite intrusive and they are meant to be.

[00:03:21]They're not punitive, but they are meant to reduce risk to a community and that's why they're necessary. Yeah, and others are being monitored as well throughout the course of several years. Now, are there enough resources to be able to do all of that?

[00:03:34]These are very resource intensive, Peter. And and and the problem is that this takes away from our investigative function in the in the Australian Federal Police to be investigating these types of offenses before they happen.

[00:03:46]So, it it puts us in on the back foot.

[00:03:48]It it's an extra drain on the state police if they have to respond to a breach of a control order and it also diverts hundreds of thousands of dollars away from the AFP's focus, which should be predominantly now on you know, foreign interference and counterterrorism.

[00:04:03]>> Yeah, cuz because of the threats at home, we all know about those. Just finally here and tell me the the the integration and and counterterrorism programs that they might have to do, how effective are they?

[00:04:15]Look, the the deradicalization and disengagement programs, I think they are a good complimentary thing to have. They may work with the young children.

[00:04:24]There's there's studies that show that they are more successful with young children.

[00:04:28]However, largely they've been found to be ineffective and they don't really produce the results. Okay. Well, that's interesting. Gee, it's interesting stuff across the board there.

[00:04:37]David Craig, really appreciate your time and your insights this morning. Thank you so much.