WATCH: City of Trinidad holds council meeting

Added: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]Well, how do you do hello and welcome on back to East Texas Now. My name's Hannah Johnson and we're about to go to this city council meeting where there's a lot of folks who are giving public comment.

[00:00:08]Now, to set you up on exactly what's being discussed and what's going on, this is in the city of Trinidad where residents are demanding answers amid this water controversy that we've been talking about this week here on East Texas Now and throughout our newscast.

[00:00:22]Now, this has pretty much catapulted this whole situation into the headlines.

[00:00:27]Several residents of Henderson County city of Trinidad shared pictures of their water with our team here in our newsroom showing what looks to be discolored brown water. Now, the city is now facing several lawsuits after two arrests of independent journalists regarding the situation and tonight they're having a city council meeting to discuss the position of the judge. So, we're going to jump in here.

[00:00:49]Again, right now we're jumping into their public comment. So, we're hearing from people within Trinidad talking about the situation, reacting to the information that they're getting, whether that's through social media or what have you, and just having a moment to speak. We know there's a lot of people set to talk. We know that each person gets about 5 minutes to speak their peace, but I will warn you. We've I've been kind of listening already and there's been a lot of colorful language. So, I just want to give you a warning here. We're going to just go into this where, you know, you might hear some strong expletives and, you know, we will be jumping out of that if it gets too intense, but I just wanted to give you a game plan of what's going on. So, let's go ahead and dive in now.

[00:01:32]>> funding to fix the water in front the water infrastructure.

[00:01:36]Have they?

[00:01:38]I heard they have.

[00:01:41]Where's that money?

[00:01:43]I heard it was a great big deal of money.

[00:01:46]Where is it?

[00:01:52]If funding has not been secured, what is the plan to get it?

[00:01:57]This city does not need more division.

[00:01:59]It needs leadership.

[00:02:03]Finish the audits, fix the water, restore public trust.

[00:02:10]And if you cannot be a part of the solution, then step down and allow someone willing to lead to take your place because citizens should not have to go to beg their own government to do basics.

[00:02:22]I have a lot of law enforcement in my family and a lot of friends.

[00:02:28]Never, ever would they intimidate, scare, or put fear or silence their citizens ever.

[00:02:40]Ever.

[00:02:42]That's not their job.

[00:02:43]Their job is to protect and serve.

[00:02:49]That's all I have to say.

[00:02:52]>> [applause] >> Lindsay Patterson >> For those of you who don't know me, my name is Lindsay Patterson. I am the former city administrator for Trinidad, Texas. I was in the position for 6 months.

[00:03:20]And I would like to speak to the taxpayers and to the council on liability.

[00:03:25]The liability costs the taxpayers and I am a taxpayer.

[00:03:30]I stepped into city council into the city council room in 2025 because my fourth amendment rights have been violated by Trinidad policy, something that I stopped the second that I stepped foot in this office.

[00:03:44]While I was in office, I spoke on transparency, accountability, spoke on liability.

[00:03:53]Right now, the city of Trinidad has some major liabilities.

[00:03:59]You have the city administrator who does not know anything about public records, open records requests.

[00:04:07]You have Marie Banister who uh was openly accused of going door-to-door to get somebody on the council to vote her way. Lea Melton.

[00:04:18]Lea Melton who took the judges payroll into a business here.

[00:04:22]All of this creates liability.

[00:04:25]And when unlawful governance creates that liability, the taxpayers pay for it. Everybody thinks that suing the city is a great thing. It is not because we as the taxpayers pay for it.

[00:04:36]TML insurance isn't going to pay for unlawful governance.

[00:04:41]It's just not.

[00:04:44]It's just not.

[00:04:47]Was I unlawfully terminated? I believe so.

[00:04:50]I know the law.

[00:04:53]Citizen attorney over here knows the law.

[00:04:58]Citizen attorney on March 17th asked very specific matter of matter-of-fact questions that went unanswered. I would bet a year's salary that they did not actually go on record even though they were requested to go on record.

[00:05:15]A year's salary. I still haven't seen those minutes.

[00:05:19]Liability.

[00:05:21]Liability when contractors put in their contracts that they answer to the council, not to the city administrator. What does that invite?

[00:05:28]That invites walking quorums. That invites a lack of liability or a lack of accountability to the city administrator or to the contractor or to it's just Who's who's responsible? Who's responsible when you have contractors answering to a city council.

[00:05:49]Liability.

[00:05:51]I think we pay enough in government fees, funds, taxes legitimately to continue to put people in an office that are a liability and are going to cost us more money because they refuse to run lawfully, to not break very simple rules, like don't talk about city business outside of city meetings.

[00:06:19]Not here to litigate my case. I'm here to ask the taxpayers to consider who is on this bench right now.

[00:06:27]I am going to ask the chief to resign because I once spoke to him about having a higher character standard simply because of the title that he held. I asked him not to go down to the city city to the city cafe and just talk. Just talk.

[00:06:50]I sent him emails from a from the city attorney laying out very clearly what was against the law.

[00:06:57]I told him that same day, "I'm here to protect you. I'm here to protect the volunteers, but above everything else I'm here to protect the city."

[00:07:06]Because in that moment, I absolutely was doing everything in my power to protect this city and its taxpayers.

[00:07:17]Clearly, I'm not reading anything.

[00:07:20]Not any AI, not any Google. I'm simply asking the taxpayers to consider who they want to put in office, who each council member they put in office because they're the ones that carry the vote.

[00:07:33]They are the ones that hold this future in their hands because we are not here discussing water.

[00:07:38]We are not here discussing the storm drainage.

[00:07:42]We're not discussing all of the all of the non-compliant things that are taking place.

[00:07:48]We're here talking about a judge that has served her community several communities for 16 years. For 16 years Judge Vivian served this community.

[00:07:59]Not this community, but she has served for this community for 4 years. 16 years she has served a community without any complaint.

[00:08:07]And yet Trinidad was the one [clears throat] that laid claim to a complaint.

[00:08:15]>> [applause] >> So we're going to have 5 minutes and you can see they told her to go away because she heard that [clears throat] timeline.

[00:08:24]They're asking people to not applaud during the person because they're trying to keep the momentum going with everyone getting their chance to speak.

[00:08:32]All right, looks like the next person's coming up to the podium. Let's go listen.

[00:08:35]>> This doesn't work, so I'll have to use my in charge voice. Hi everybody, my name is Lisa Moffitt. I am a registered registered nurse. Um I am a mandatory reporter and I'm also a civil rights advocate from Malakoff, Texas.

[00:08:50]I am here to provide public notice to all of you.

[00:08:55]This is in accordance with the USCS rules of civil procedures as well as rule 17 and rule 20 of the United States Supreme Court. The Constitution for the United States of America is the overarching requirement that every state must follow.

[00:09:10]I don't think any one of you will ever deny that.

[00:09:13]States cannot enact their own alternative legislation and substitute it for guarantees of the Constitution of the United States.

[00:09:21]That would mean that the state laws are more powerful than the Constitution.

[00:09:25]Clause one of the Amendment five to the United States Constitution states, "No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime unless on a presentment or indictment by grand jury." However, in the state of Texas, we have enacted our own alternative legislations that permits the prosecuting attorneys or law enforcement to charge by way of information and not by indictment, which is required by the Constitution. All of which is unconstitutional.

[00:09:52]Now, an emolument violation is when you pay a public official to break the law.

[00:09:56]You cannot pay someone to break the law, nor can you ever receive federal funding and they pay people to violate then pay people to violate federal law. The Constitution has two areas that enforce this. The first is Article 1, Section 10, where it states that no state shall create any law that shall impair the obligation of contracts. Police officers, prosecutors, judges are all under a contract, a contract to perform what is based upon or within the Constitution of the United States. So, when states enact a law that direct their agents to disobey the Constitution of the United States, that would obviously be a violation of Article 1, Section 10. The 14th Amendment is the other place that you'll find the reinforcement of this issue and that is where it says no state shall create or enforce any law that shall abridge privileges or immunities of United States citizens. The privileges and immunities of United States citizens are at a minimum those enumerated within the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments, they cannot be impaired. This was affirmed by the US Supreme Court in 2019. The case was Timbs versus Indiana and thus the state of Texas has enacted law in its inferior Constitution and is enforcing it through agents whom we all pay to violate the Constitution of the United States.

[00:11:10]As a result, there is an inordinate amount of people currently imprisoned in the state of Texas illegal illegally and constitutionally.

[00:11:18]Tanawoha Downing is preparing to litigate this issue in the United States Supreme Court on behalf of more than 700,000 people currently imprisoned in America illegally and unconstitutionally. I'm here today to notify you that if you continue to pay these public officials to break the law, criminal sanctions can come from that.

[00:11:34]We don't want to go down that path, but I must make sure that you're all made aware it that paying people to disobey the Constitution is an emolument violation. It is illegal and it is a crime.

[00:11:46]I'm asking you, honorable individuals, to please look at clause one, amendment five, confirm what I'm saying to be true, and then direct your public officials to act in lawful, constitutional manners consistent with the obligations that are codified in the Constitution of the United States of America. I have a notice I would like to put on record, and every single one of you now have a lawful duty to take action to address these crimes, and failure to take action as lawfully required is a crime, and your willfulness and knowledge of said crime derives from the public notice that I just provided to you.

[00:12:17]Thank you so much for allowing me to speak, and have a good day. Is there a clerk still employed?

[00:12:22]Who can I put this on the record with?

[00:12:24]Okay, thank you.

[00:12:26]Thank you all.

[00:12:33]>> Mr. Adams, you are up, sir.

[00:12:36]>> Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:12:38]Okay.

[00:12:47]All right, that looks like it concludes our citizen comments.

[00:12:58]So, at this time, we're going to move on.

[00:13:04]Prior to moving into item number five, I'm just going to state for the record that I once again object to this agenda and the items that are on it in whole.

[00:13:20]I also say item number five >> [clears throat] >> going into session for consultation with our attorney should have been separated from the personnel matters involving Ms. Bivins.

[00:13:40]Since Ms. Bivins has enacted her right to be heard publicly, I want to make it clear as we go into executive session it will be for the discussion with our attorney only.

[00:13:58]And because I had no opportunity to review this agenda and based on some activities that have gone on in recent days namely our attorney of record, Mr. Clayton Gattis being ignored by his emails, his text messages, and other items, I'm not sure exactly what attorney y'all are talking about, but our attorney of record at this point is Mr. Clayton Gattis. So, at this time pursuant to the Open Meetings Act, Chapter 551, Texas Government Code, the City Council will recess into executive session to discuss I'm sorry, for consultation with our attorney.

[00:14:46]>> Mr. Mayor, [clears throat] point of order.

[00:14:47]>> Yes, sir.

[00:14:48]>> Uh so, your I I don't number five mentions that you're to go into executive session to discuss the following consultation with attorney and personnel matters to deliberate the appointment, employment, evaluation, reassignment, duties, discipline, or dismissal of a public officer or employee, namely Shelena Bivins.

[00:15:08]Ms. Bivins has through counsel today made very clear that she wishes an open hearing, and because the City Council and the agenda does not bifurcate both the uh any discussion with the attorney and personnel matters as two separate agenda items, I would uh suggest that any decision made and any executive session made in in accordance with number five would be unlawful under chapter 551 of the open meetings act.

[00:15:34]>> Thank you.

[00:15:37]Mike, do you want to respond to that?

[00:15:46]>> I would say since the part of the executive session that is just referring to consultation with the attorney, which I'm presuming is me.

[00:15:58]There should not be any decisions being made on anything when it comes to personnel matters.

[00:16:06]Now, outside of that, I think that's you're assuming that you want to continue on with separating it out like that.

[00:16:15]I would like the opportunity to discuss with council or discuss with the discuss with the council, you know, some of the events that are going going on right now, but ultimately, I think that's that's up to you. As it comes to the the second part, I do agree with Mr. Gresham and then your your previous assessment on it.

[00:16:40]>> Okay, thank you.

[00:16:45]I am going to strongly advise this council to accept the advice of Mr. C.J.

[00:16:52]Gresham.

[00:16:54]I can't stop the council if you decide to go into executive session.

[00:17:00]>> She She replaced it with number five.

[00:17:02]>> She has, yes, ma'am.

[00:17:04]>> Well, he got my mind with on the number five.

[00:17:07]>> Well, number five specifically states a consultation with attorney.

[00:17:14]>> He just He just made his statement.

[00:17:17]>> Oh, wow.

[00:17:19]Yes, sir.

[00:17:19]>> Ultimately, the safest option would be to just table the entire executive session. Um honestly, just because of it should have been separated out. Um and just on the record for council, if we're not going to be able to go back um for an executive session, I do want to agree with the mayor that the agenda as written is improper.

[00:17:49]And that is just on its face um because it directly goes against the rules and procedures that this council has uh passed in a resolution last year. I think it might have been the first resolution of 2025. And the rules and procedure directly state that the mayor is to be involved in the agenda making process.

[00:18:13]So, if it is the mayor's testimony that the he was not a part of the creation of this agenda, then it is my opinion that it violates the rules of rules of procedure for this city council.

[00:18:25]>> Okay.

[00:18:26]>> Mr. Olsen, excuse me.

[00:18:28]Mr. Olsen, I believe the update is a little bit off there.

[00:18:32]What's that?

[00:18:32]>> I think I did.

[00:18:33]>> Yeah, I think I did. I'm paying for that.

[00:18:35]Just carry on.

[00:18:35]>> Okay. I No one's paying for it yet. Um >> Yeah.

[00:18:40]>> Yeah.

[00:18:43]>> Who are you?

[00:18:45]>> Nothing.

[00:18:46]>> Uh >> Man, we've we've been the law. I mean, the procedure >> I I would concur with Mr. Christian on his analysis of the fabrication of the uh session.

[00:19:01]>> So, if I may ask a couple questions, okay?

[00:19:06]Are you speaking on behalf of the city right now?

[00:19:09]>> Absolutely not.

[00:19:10]>> Okay. Have you at any point in the past week or so given any legal advice to any of the council members on behalf of the city?

[00:19:20]>> No, sir.

[00:19:21]>> Okay.

[00:19:22]All right. Thank you.

[00:19:26]>> And who is he?

[00:19:26]>> Who is Who is he?

[00:19:27]>> And why is he here?

[00:19:29]Who invited him?

[00:19:30]>> Well, it's a public meeting. He's He's free to be here.

[00:19:32]>> to know who invited him. I would like to know who invited him.

[00:19:34]>> I'm I'm here on behalf of Flowers Davis on agenda item eight.

[00:19:39]>> How did you get on the agenda?

[00:19:41]>> I was we were solicited just like you.

[00:19:43]>> By who?

[00:19:44]>> By who?

[00:19:44]>> I don't think we're taking up number eight right now, but >> All right. So All right.

[00:19:50]Come on, guys.

[00:19:53]>> You still didn't answer who Who does this business?

[00:19:56]>> We're not We're not in open We're not I can be >> Who invited you?

[00:20:01]>> Nobody invited >> Who invited you?

[00:20:04]Specifically, how did she know to address the mayor?

[00:20:07]>> It was It was us.

[00:20:10]>> On the agenda.

[00:20:12]All the council members.

[00:20:13]>> Then but what's the Are we moving on to this item?

[00:20:16]>> Well I wanted a second opinion.

[00:20:20]>> Okay. So you did >> So you did ask him.

[00:20:22]>> Well, BUT BUT I THINK I WANTED A SECOND >> YOU'RE NOT going to answer anything.

[00:20:25]>> I'm not taking your questions.

[00:20:26]>> Thank you.

[00:20:31]>> All right.

[00:20:34]Please.

[00:20:36]Everybody, just please calm down.

[00:20:40]So So we will not be journeying into executive session.

[00:20:52]And in regard to Mr. Davis I want to read through Government Code Section 30.00085, removal of a judge.

[00:21:15]A municipal judge of a general law municipality may be removed from office at any time for the reasons stated and by the procedure provided for the removal of members of a municipal governing body in subchapter B, chapter 21, Local Government Code.

[00:21:32]A municipal judge of a home Sorry, that's home rule. It's really not applicable. So, moving on to Local Government Code Section 21.025, as referenced above, general grounds for removal, an officer may be removed from office for incompetency, official misconduct, or intoxication on or off duty caused by drinking an alcoholic beverage.

[00:21:57]So, those are the only justifications. So, as we as we move into Judge Bivins' hearing, I would like you all to keep that in mind and hopefully you can make it clear which one of those offenses that Ms. Bivins is being accused of.

[00:22:25]Any discussion?

[00:22:28]>> Thank you, sir.

[00:22:30]>> You're welcome, Mr. Mayor.

[00:22:37]>> Judge, do you have anything to say?

[00:22:54]>> Oh, I left my glasses.

[00:22:57]I'm sorry, I need my glasses.

[00:23:07]>> Hey judge.

[00:23:11]Yeah.

[00:23:11]>> You good?

[00:23:12]>> Yeah.

[00:23:13]Um I prepared a statement and then I tweaked it. I've had quite a few days off with pay, actually.

[00:23:23]Still don't know why.

[00:23:25]Um I think enough has been said this evening. I'm not on trial.

[00:23:34]I will reiterate to the whole world watching now.

[00:23:39]I have been a good judge.

[00:23:43]A damn good judge, I believe is what I told you all last time. I've done nothing illegal, immoral, unethical.

[00:23:52]I don't live here.

[00:23:55]I live a little ways away.

[00:24:00]It doesn't matter why I come here to work. I enjoy what I do.

[00:24:05]I've served honorably.

[00:24:08]>> Yeah.

[00:24:09]>> And I appreciate the outpouring of support.

[00:24:14]Um I've seen some comments online. Not going to address those because they're not true. I'm not on trial here.

[00:24:23]Um This is my attorney.

[00:24:26]Um I guess we're doing this.

[00:24:30]>> Yeah?

[00:24:30]>> Now?

[00:24:30]>> Yeah.

[00:24:31]>> We weren't.

[00:24:32]>> We weren't? Uh we originally sent a cease and desist, but I would just like to remind the council that while there are those stated reasons that you gave for terminating a judge, she is a judge.

[00:24:41]She's not a city employee, uh and that judicial interference is applicable here. Uh and when those facts are present, you are creating a liability, and I would keep that in mind as you make your decision tonight.

[00:24:53]>> I mean, my office has been closed.

[00:24:59]The public that's been calling in about their court dates.

[00:25:05]The office was closed, she told the public.

[00:25:09]McKenzie was taking names and phone numbers of everybody that called in and she was writing notes for people that appeared up here for their court date because I have a walk-in docket. I try to be here every day for the public to accommodate them.

[00:25:28]Um my email was suspended on Tuesday, actually. Tuesday, I'm I'm don't know that my password's been changed, but it has been suspended.

[00:25:43]So, if that's not judicial interference, I don't know what is.

[00:25:49]Again, I just want I want to thank everybody, everybody that's here, the support of some of the council.

[00:25:57]Um the world watching, I guess. I have friends and family out there.

[00:26:05]A lot of people have reached out to me.

[00:26:08]Um and I appreciate that. I really do.

[00:26:11]>> All right. Thank you, Judge.

[00:26:13]>> [applause] >> Okay.

[00:26:23]>> [clears throat] >> Okay.

[00:26:54]Sure.

[00:26:55]>> Was it illegal for him to dismiss the ticket on auto >> Wow.

[00:27:04]>> [laughter] >> So, that is not a question >> [laughter] >> that is applicable to this matter.

[00:27:16]I don't know the facts around any of that.

[00:27:20]>> Show me the stats.

[00:27:20]>> Have you spoken with the judge about any of that?

[00:27:22]>> I haven't but somebody said that she would be.

[00:27:25]>> Wow.

[00:27:26]>> Well, I you know, whether she did it or whether it was legal, I don't know.

[00:27:32]Those are questions that can be asked at an appropriate time.

[00:27:38]And and I you know Sometimes I wonder why we get in such a rush.

[00:27:47]And everything got to happen right now.

[00:27:51]There are ways to actually do investigations and look at things and come to logical decisions on what we do. But when we do all this stuff so quickly, that's why we schedule this meeting for the 27th and we had to move it to the 28th. And then we do this over and over and over. And listen, I'm not I'm not here to pick sides. I'm just We got work to do and this is not doing it. So, So, but but why is Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

[00:28:35]Why is >> What was the other >> What?

[00:28:43]Let me ask you a question.

[00:28:45]So, what about her salary is applicable to those three items that I read that was written for removal?

[00:28:53]If you want to remove the judge >> What I had on there I I wasn't for removing. You're You're taking the >> Well, hold on. So, you were going to remove her? You were going to pay her $400 a month to drive up here for traffic tickets?

[00:29:06]Well, I understand.

[00:29:09]Regardless, regardless We have these options available to you all which you all should If you're going to take action against her tonight.

[00:29:21]Now, I will tell the council with the world watching and five, six lawsuits already in their lap we should probably make better use of our time.

[00:29:31]And frankly if if you want to safely remove the judge wait 15 months or whatever it is till she's up to be appointed again and don't appoint her. No harm, no foul. It's not that hard.

[00:29:46]So, we're going to move on.

[00:29:48]>> Judge, point of order.

[00:29:50]>> Yes, sir.

[00:29:50]>> This is an agenda item and there are people that spoke up or that signed up to speak on agenda item number five.

[00:29:57]>> Well, any Anybody in the room is has the availability to speak on this, but we did two meetings ago adjust the time on that to two minutes.

[00:30:07]>> That's That's fine. I just I did sign up to speak for my two minutes on this agenda item.

[00:30:11]>> Okay. All right, go ahead.

[00:30:13]>> Thank you.

[00:30:15]I'm going to remove my concerned citizen hat and put on my lawyer hat cuz my previous comments obviously were as a concerned citizen.

[00:30:25]Um First of all, let me answer that question that Ms. Melton had.

[00:30:30]Um It's none of your business.

[00:30:33]The judge determines probable cause. Not you, not the mayor, definitely not Ms. Bannister, and not the police chief.

[00:30:40]>> [laughter] >> The judge >> That's right. [applause] >> A judge alone determines probable cause.

[00:30:49]>> Yes.

[00:30:49]>> Okay? The officers do the unlawful arrest, the judge determines it's unlawful, and determines whether or not she or he is going to dismiss. That's the way the law works.

[00:30:58]The judge is an independent judiciary.

[00:31:01]She works for the city, but you know what? She's her own branch of government in the city. Okay? Unless there is a statutory reason to fire her, which none has been brought up today, you cannot fire her. No matter how much Marie Bannister whines to you in the background, goes door to door trying to do it, fumbles up these agenda items, it doesn't matter.

[00:31:25]She alone determines probable cause. And here's the other thing that you should know, Ms. Bannister. She can be 100% wrong.

[00:31:33]Nothing you can do about it.

[00:31:35]Judges make wrong decisions all the time. If she's wrong, appeal it.

[00:31:40]Well, you can't cuz you have no standing.

[00:31:42]So, her decisions are final. They are not subject to your whims at all.

[00:31:49]Okay?

[00:31:50]Whether she's right or wrong is her judicial discretion.

[00:31:55]>> Right.

[00:31:55]>> Period.

[00:31:57]And she determined, based off of the false complaint filed by your police department, which needs to be disbanded, that based solely on that complaint, and the victim saying she's not a victim, that probable cause no longer exists.

[00:32:11]Thank you.

[00:32:13]Again, >> [applause] >> you're not being truthful by an officer.

[00:32:20]>> I think Marie's time is up.

[00:32:25]>> Mr. C.J. said pretty much everything I wanted to say, but I find it mind-blowing that people that don't have law degrees are questioning people that have law degrees. That that just blows my mind. And and anytime, you know, that the police are always saying when they make these bad arrests or good arrests, let the courts handle it. Let the courts figure it out. Well, the courts have figured it out. The courts have handled it. And now y'all are acting like y'all know more than the courts. And I I just find that mind-blowing. And y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Let the Let the courts handle it. The court handled it. So, get over your egos and let it go and move on. She did her job. She upheld her oath. She didn't violate anybody's rights. But, y'all are tired and y'all are unhappy about it.

[00:33:05]>> [applause] >> Anybody else wish to speak on this agenda item?

[00:33:27]So, this this this wording is is not quite correct anymore, obviously, since we didn't go into executive session.

[00:33:37]Item number six would have us come back into special session when this is actually a regular session. So, I'm not going to do that. Item number seven, discuss and possibly take action concerning the dismissal or termination of Selena Bibbs.

[00:33:58]Any discussion up here?

[00:34:01]>> I have a question that I asked the clerk when I was here as a council member.

[00:34:10]And nobody's giving me an answer on it yet.

[00:34:14]She's supposed to be a judge, but she's in the city retirement program.

[00:34:19]So, is she a city employee or is she a judge? I'm confused. We spent $9,000 putting her into our retirement program due to Lindsay turning things around and changing her status to full-time.

[00:34:35]And now we're out the money, and we all are saying she's not a city employee.

[00:34:42]>> No, she She is a city employee. She is also a judge.

[00:34:48]So, she has judicial independence. She's also still under the city.

[00:34:51]>> So, they jacked her hours up to get her into our retirement program so we could spend $9,000 on her back retirement?

[00:35:00]>> That's I'm not familiar with how you guys do retirement.

[00:35:04]>> Well, it ain't like that.

[00:35:06]>> Okay, then.

[00:35:08]>> Yes. Okay, since this has been Here, I'll come up to the podium again.

[00:35:15]Okay.

[00:35:17]I got 2 minutes. 2 minutes The TMRS program is for city employees, but as he just explained, she is an employee, but also has her own judicial independence.

[00:35:27]She did. Something again that I described on March 17th.

[00:35:32]$9,000 of back retirement pay, something that was also done for one of our officers.

[00:35:37]People want to forget about that.

[00:35:39]In 20 She started She was working for a full department, which was requiring her to work the amount of hours. It is 20 hours, 19 to 20 hours, and it is a state law that requires municipal employees to be on the retirement program.

[00:35:57]I spoke to TMRS.

[00:35:59]They told me specifically, if she is not on there, you need to have her on there.

[00:36:06]You need to have her on there.

[00:36:08]Why? Because she was owed that money.

[00:36:10]Because she was working the required amount of time during that period of time, before she hurt her back, before the previous count or the previous police department was went away.

[00:36:22]She worked her time.

[00:36:25]Yes, she was required by law to be there. And so yes, by law and as a city administrator at that time, I put her on the TMRS. I back paid per the law, so the city, the citizens did not have to pay out on the fines and so everybody who was on the TMRS did not end up not getting it simply because they they they will absolutely pull that out from underneath us if we violate the law.

[00:36:52]Compliance is a thing. Lawful governance is a thing. Liability is a thing. I did my job. That keeps getting brought up and brought up and brought up. She earned her money. What she didn't get to do was contribute to it during the time that she was not allowed to be on it.

[00:37:10]She served here. She served She served very very well. She earned her money.

[00:37:17]>> THANK YOU. [applause] >> THEY JUST CONTINUE TO BREAK LAWS.

[00:37:24]OKAY.

[00:37:25]>> IS there anything else?

[00:37:28]>> I guarantee she won't act like that when they're around.

[00:37:31]>> So, I'm going to strongly recommend to this council that we table item number seven.

[00:37:48]Do I have a motion to that such?

[00:37:55]Okay.

[00:37:57]Do I have any other motion on this item?

[00:38:15]Uh-oh. Wow.

[00:38:17]>> Uh-oh. Point of order, Mr. Mayor.

[00:38:19]>> Yes, sir.

[00:38:19]>> If the city council goes forward with this and votes in affirmative on this motion, they will be in violation of state law.

[00:38:26]And the And the decision will be void.

[00:38:29]>> Also, point of order.

[00:38:31]>> Uh This is retaliatory and I think a judge in the jury will be able to see that.

[00:38:37]I would recommend you guys take consideration of that.

[00:38:41]>> Yeah, but point of order, articulate a reason for your motion.

[00:38:44]>> Yeah.

[00:38:44]>> Like, come on. What are you doing?

[00:38:47]>> What's your reason?

[00:38:47]>> Yes, why?

[00:38:49]>> What are you doing?

[00:38:50]>> Why?

[00:38:52]>> Yeah, what is the reason?

[00:38:54]>> Why do we owe?

[00:38:55]>> We deserve the right to know why.

[00:38:57]>> I also strongly recommend that you all table this item for the reasons that I brought up earlier.

[00:39:02]>> Guys, I don't know what we're doing.

[00:39:04]>> [laughter] >> Nobody does.

[00:39:07]>> Why are we here?

[00:39:07]>> How much deeper do we dig this hole? Do I have a motion? Do I have a second?

[00:39:13]>> I'll second.

[00:39:14]Thank you.

[00:39:16]>> We have a motion and a second.

[00:39:19]All those in favor say I.

[00:39:22]Opposed, no.

[00:39:25]Motion carries.

[00:39:29]>> Wow.

[00:39:31]>> Point of order, Mr. Mayor.

[00:39:32]>> Yes, sir.

[00:39:33]>> Uh based on state law, your uh municipal judge, Ms. Bivens, is still your municipal judge. The decision that was just made and the vote that was just had was in violation of state law and is void.

[00:39:45]>> Thank you, sir.

[00:39:46]>> [applause] >> Thank you.

[00:39:56]>> WE'RE TIRED.

[00:39:58]>> UH >> I I KNOW WE'RE HEARD AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS THINK OF US as if you're returning it me and CJ as outsiders, but we're here uh in your city.

[00:40:05]We're not getting your people in your city, but we care about your city. We're not here to throw the lawsuits around for no reason, but you can see what your council is doing. We tried to avoid the lawsuit.

[00:40:15]>> have been We tried to avoid all these.

[00:40:17]We've been with their city attorney who they're now trying to fire just cuz he's been cordial with us.

[00:40:22]Um, I just It's a shame what's going on.

[00:40:26]I'll leave that.

[00:40:28]>> It's integrity, that's all it is.

[00:40:29]>> Yep. Yep.

[00:40:30]>> I mean, it started obviously they reached out to the other attorney.

[00:40:33]>> Well, what did she say to you?

[00:40:34]>> Well, we're going to We're going to go to >> Mr. Stewart, >> Yes.

[00:40:43]>> Hey, can we get a roll call vote?

[00:40:45]>> Please, we got to hear yes or >> Mr. Mayor, in order I'd like a roll call of exactly who voted yes on this matter.

[00:40:49]>> Okay.

[00:40:51]So, we will call the roll.

[00:40:53]I will call your name.

[00:40:56]Yes means >> [clears throat] >> you are in favor of this motion, no means you are not. Thelma Womack?

[00:41:03]No.

[00:41:05]Connie Mountain?

[00:41:06]>> Yes.

[00:41:08]>> Marie Bannister?

[00:41:09]>> Yes.

[00:41:12]>> Tondra Sutton?

[00:41:13]>> Yes.

[00:41:14]>> Three to one. Wow.

[00:41:16]>> Holy smokes.

[00:41:20]>> Y'all up.

[00:41:23]>> Hey, do you not get to vote? Do you not You don't vote.

[00:41:30]>> So, Where's And we didn't have a tie, so I don't really So, we are going to move on to item number eight.

[00:41:41]Discuss and take action to approve a professional services agreement with Flowers, Davis, PLLC to provide outside legal counsel regarding any and all litigation matters for the city, and authorizing the mayor pro tem to execute the contract.

[00:41:59]>> Wow.

[00:41:59]>> [laughter] >> Marie Bannister voted yes.

[00:42:02]>> Oh.

[00:42:05]>> Yes, sir.

[00:42:07]>> [clears throat] >> That part is easy.

[00:42:08]>> Yes, sir.

[00:42:13]>> Good evening, city of Trinidad.

[00:42:16]Council members, mayor.

[00:42:18]Um So, here we're here on number eight.

[00:42:23]And my name's Jose Castaneda. I'm here um on behalf of Flowers Davis.

[00:42:29]And uh as you mentioned, mayor Mr. Mayor, um the city is involved in multiple lawsuits, and uh we were solicited to potentially represent you guys in those lawsuits in the event that um assignment wasn't done by TML or TML decided not to um cover you guys for whatever reason.

[00:42:50]Um and with uh lawsuits as I'm sure all the attorneys in the room can attest, there's deadlines, there's time frames that if in the event that, you know, TML or your whoever you guys have as coverage doesn't uh cover you guys, we're kind of in the rafters and the wings just trying to uh make sure that the city's answering uh complaints and doing everything lawfully uh as far as the litigation's concerned. So, um that's we there there were some folks that reached out, and uh we I collected some fact um some enough to to base, hey, do we even is this our specialty?

[00:43:35]Can we represent you guys? That kind of thing. Um and just a little bit about us, we uh represent multiple counties, multiple cities, uh both in a transactional situation and a litigation situation. We also take on cases from uh the Texas Association of Counties. Um so, it works very similar to TAC or I'm sorry, to TML. So, um we are TAC attorneys.

[00:44:02]Uh in fact, I think uh Mr. Grissom in in our firm have been on opposite sides of the V.

[00:44:09]As y'all can tell, he's a fierce and passionate litigator.

[00:44:12]Good good good dude.

[00:44:15]But that just goes to show you that despite all the litigation that may be ongoing and the adversarial nature of all this, you know, somebody mentioned a second ago, you know, let the courts handle it. Let let let it flow out that way. And that's all I'm here for.

[00:44:31]To answer Ms. Patterson's question earlier, uh we have not been contracted for litigation matters.

[00:44:38]This is just us pitching you guys our services and that's it.

[00:44:44]>> So, did you provide to whoever you spoke to >> Yes.

[00:44:50]>> a a sheet with service cost or anything like that?

[00:44:54]>> Yes sir.

[00:44:55]>> Wow.

[00:44:56]>> I have a copy here if you'd like.

[00:44:59]>> our [clears throat] engagement letter >> uh >> So, you say and I'm not I'm not holding court here.

[00:45:17]I'm just asking a question.

[00:45:18]>> Sure.

[00:45:18]>> Because there's been a lot of confusion at least to to myself and to to Mr. Gattis >> Mhm.

[00:45:27]>> about exactly who was representing the city right now.

[00:45:31]And so I would you said some people reached out.

[00:45:36]>> Yes.

[00:45:37]>> Would you would you put a number on that some?

[00:45:41]>> I believe it was two folks.

[00:45:43]>> Two folks. Okay.

[00:45:44]Well, who?

[00:45:46]>> Who?

[00:45:47]>> For the record, two. For the record.

[00:45:49]>> And we're just we're just having a conversation.

[00:45:52]>> Mr. Mayor, you know, I represent cities and counties and I'm just going to say this, I've never been asked directly from the public. I will take all your questions and the council's questions, but um if we could limit the the >> You're not using your freedom. You're not using your freedom.

[00:46:07]>> So, wait a minute. We're taxpayers. We have the right.

[00:46:12]>> Mr. Mayor, would you mind asking him to So, I want to ask you directly, who contacted you?

[00:46:22]>> I did.

[00:46:24]>> I imagined that.

[00:46:25]>> I did for the litigations, for the lawsuits that were coming against me.

[00:46:29]>> Okay, I would have thought that that would go through Mr. Gadsden and he would have made that call.

[00:46:33]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:34]>> Mr. Gadsden and I don't seem to knew it.

[00:46:38]Don't seem to see I I did I have several things and he's not going to get involved with me.

[00:46:45]He doesn't want to deal with me. He doesn't so I had a choice of not having to use our counsel.

[00:46:49]>> That's not your decision.

[00:46:51]>> It is it when I'm getting personally lawsuit, yes, it is. I've got a personal lawsuit against me.

[00:46:57]It is mine.

[00:46:58]>> This council Then you pay for it.

[00:47:01]>> I I I did I asked for him to be mine.

[00:47:04]>> Yeah, the city is not paying for it.

[00:47:06]>> The city is not paying for it.

[00:47:08]>> I thought you said he hasn't been paid yet.

[00:47:10]So, >> Yeah, by the city.

[00:47:13]>> Mr. Mayor, >> Yes.

[00:47:14]>> This council approved Mr. Gadsden's contract last Tuesday night.

[00:47:20]>> Yes, but it was done incorrectly.

[00:47:22]And I have explained to Mr. Gadsden it was done under the wrong code.

[00:47:26]>> So, he's working for the city now.

[00:47:29]We have never had this discussion for the record.

[00:47:31]>> Wow.

[00:47:33]And I sent you an email explaining that to you cuz it was explained to me.

[00:47:37]>> Who explained it to you?

[00:47:40]>> He did.

[00:47:41]>> He just He just told me earlier that he didn't give any legal advice >> No, he did not.

[00:47:49]>> There's uh Mr. Mayor, there's a difference >> Yeah.

[00:47:54]>> There's a There's a difference between advising a client and just talking about facts and a fact was presented and um just that's all we we discussed. The things that are ongoing with the with the city as far as litigation is concerned. And we need those facts to determine whether or not we can represent or would like to represent an entity like like the city of Trinidad.

[00:48:16]>> That's Trinidad. Then she reacted to whatever that fact was that you gave her and chose to ignore emails and text messages from Mr. Gaddis.

[00:48:27]>> Just a moment. I didn't choose to ignore, sir. I have been that doing nothing but answering a thousand phone calls a day and a hundred emails upon people like this being threatened by the city with death threats or anything else. So, it's not that I purposely ignored anything. I've been busy taking phone calls with people threatening all the you know, all the councilors and you and me and everybody. That's what I've been doing.

[00:48:53]>> Okay.

[00:48:55]All right.

[00:48:57]>> I'd like to say that I'd like to hear also ask who the second person was and whether they were contacting you and at the same time if you would, please.

[00:49:06]>> Now, who's the second person that contacted you?

[00:49:08]>> Uh that's not relevant to the meeting.

[00:49:10]>> Mr. Gaddis, do I have the right to ask that question in your opinion? I don't mean to put you on the spot.

[00:49:16]>> Can you repeat the question?

[00:49:18]>> You are our attorney of record.

[00:49:21]Do I have the right to ask him who the other person was that contacted me?

[00:49:28]>> I mean, you can ask him and whether he answers or not is >> So, who was the second person?

[00:49:32]>> Uh it was uh the police chief.

[00:49:39]Again, again, we're getting we're >> I'm not. I'm I'm not. I don't care anymore. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time now.

[00:49:48]Are you listening cuz we're discussing a law?

[00:49:50]>> No, no, no, no, no. Hold on. I want everybody to speak.

[00:49:52]>> Are you making it up here?

[00:49:54]>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to let everybody let me speak.

[00:49:56]>> No.

[00:49:57]>> No.

[00:49:57]>> No.

[00:49:58]>> NO.

[00:49:58]>> NO.

[00:49:59]>> NO.

[00:50:00]>> NO, YOU ALREADY ALLOWED IT TO BE AN OPEN SESSION, so I'm going to speak.

[00:50:04]No, I'm going to speak.

[00:50:05]He made a comment on the news that he wanted the Texas Rangers to come in here and investigate. I welcomed them because I have nothing to hide.

[00:50:14]Her?

[00:50:14]>> Yep.

[00:50:15]>> Uh all of them. Every single one of them have been involved with Mr. Gresham and Otto and who else was it? Who else was it?

[00:50:25]>> Yeah, I'm an attorney. That's what I do.

[00:50:27]>> This guy right here in the front. What's your name?

[00:50:32]Be quick tonight.

[00:50:33]You don't have You don't have to Every single one of them have been involved in all this and it's and and I'm just going to tell you it's going to come out. It's going to come out.

[00:50:41]>> Okay, thank you.

[00:50:42]>> running their mouths and talking smack about me. I have never done anything, anything [laughter] >> Okay, then.

[00:50:48]>> I have never done anything that's going to violate anybody's rights. I wasn't even here for that arrest. I wasn't even here for Jennifer Combs' arrest. Kern PD arrested them on our warrant.

[00:50:59]So, for everybody to say their warrant >> Mr. Mayor, if I if I may if I may, I just want to clarify uh the reason these folks reached out were was purely for hey, can you represent us?

[00:51:15]We need to gather facts. It's a consultation and based on the facts that uh the chief gave and that [clears throat] your city administrator gave, we felt that this is well within our wheelhouse.

[00:51:28]We represent governments all the time, um especially in the event that TML wouldn't assign you guys an an attorney.

[00:51:35]Um what we talked about, that's going to be covered by the confidentiality in that consultation. Um but I don't mind telling you the folks that I talked to to base our decision to come here to tonight. And if that's a problem, then there's a whole problem with the legal world, right?

[00:51:52]>> That's counsel.

[00:51:53]That's counsel. That's not a sit-down caster. That's counsel.

[00:51:57]>> Again, we need we need to stop the back and forth.

[00:52:00]>> No, Mr. Mayor, the only thing I have I have asked you this. You and I have had conversations about this. And I have asked you to take order when we have meetings. To quit letting everybody on the outside come in here and start screaming and yelling at us. All they do is they do this right here. They want a reaction out of everybody.

[00:52:16]>> Okay.

[00:52:17]>> But you don't do that though. You allow people to run everybody up here.

[00:52:21]Every single one of these council members have been backed up in a corner.

[00:52:24]>> Wow. No.

[00:52:26]>> What about the You allowed that?

[00:52:27]>> I have no >> State for No, but first of all >> Are you whining now?

[00:52:30]>> No.

[00:52:31]No, no, first of all, who are you? Who are you?

[00:52:34]>> My name is Lee Stewart and I've been watching every movie you've made since you were elected and No, I don't.

[00:52:40]>> No, yeah, yeah, it does because a lot of the citizens that live here in Trinidad know what's really going on.

[00:52:45]>> Yeah, I do.

[00:52:46]>> I do.

[00:52:47]>> I do.

[00:52:49]>> I do know what's going on.

[00:52:51]>> Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, candidly, candidly >> I'm a citizen.

[00:52:54]>> We're on number eight and all we're speaking about is whether or not this city is going to hire Flower Savage.

[00:53:00]>> You're right.

[00:53:02]>> So, I all I'm asking for is a little little little order here.

[00:53:04]>> I know 100% I respect that I was going to allow the chief to talk because he has the right to talk as well.

[00:53:11]>> Absolutely.

[00:53:13]>> And and I would think so.

[00:53:17]So >> Mr. Mayor, may I have my two minutes on agenda number eight?

[00:53:21]>> Yes, sir, you can.

[00:53:23]Are you done?

[00:53:25]>> Oh, oh, how you doing, man?

[00:53:29]All right.

[00:53:30]Let me tell you and this fine gentleman, yes, we get to sit on the opposite sides of things, something that you probably don't know.

[00:53:37]Now, let me put my attorney hat back on.

[00:53:39]This is official.

[00:53:41]You guys are sitting here talking about hiring this wonderful man and I'll tell you if you ever did, you've got a good attorney here.

[00:53:47]However, I've been contacted by TML attorneys about y'alls cases.

[00:53:52]So, why are we even talking about this if you've already got attorneys?

[00:53:56]>> Um >> Does your attorney know that y'all are looking for other attorneys?

[00:53:59]Does your attorneys know that they're accepting service while you're sitting here debating whether or not to hire someone else to accept service? It's not his fault. It's not his fault at all.

[00:54:10]But, y'all have attorneys. Somebody messed up. It's TML attorneys. TML attorneys contacted me this morning and we had a conversation.

[00:54:21]So, >> If I If I may, Mr. Grisham, that's This might clear it up. Um obviously, you know that the agenda had to be posted last week. Yes. At that time, TML had not assigned to our knowledge had not assigned an attorney. Therefore, the city was kind of if we didn't if y'all didn't hire an attorney soon, the the window was going to get pretty shut. So, that's that's that.

[00:54:44]>> And I just want to let y'all know you are represented right now.

[00:54:47]>> Correct.

[00:54:48]>> And so, it's probably a moot point unless you want to fire TML, who's your risk pool, and hire an outside agency which comes out of taxpayer money.

[00:54:58]>> Yes.

[00:55:00]>> Thank you.

[00:55:06]>> Okay.

[00:55:09]>> And And yes, everything Mr. Grisham said should be taken into consideration for agenda item number eight.

[00:55:15]>> Okay. Thank you.

[00:55:18]>> And he would be an awesome attorney, I'm telling you. I'm not saying don't hire him cuz he's not good. He's awesome.

[00:55:23]>> So, we should go to the vote. No No further questions, >> No, I have >> Any discussion on here?

[00:55:35]So, I'll entertain a motion.

[00:55:37]>> I'd like to make a to hire this firm.

[00:55:45]>> Yes, so you're going to spend taxpayer's money?

[00:55:48]>> I have a motion, do we have a second?

[00:55:52]>> Are you serious?

[00:55:54]You're going to use taxpayer's money instead of TML?

[00:55:59]>> So, I have a motion and a second to approve Flowers Davis PLLC to provide outside legal counsel regarding any and all litigation for the city. Any discussion?

[00:56:11]So, that would also include authorizing the mayor pro tem to execute the contract.

[00:56:22]All those in favor, say aye.

[00:56:25]>> Aye.

[00:56:26]>> Uh-uh.

[00:56:26]>> Opposed, no.

[00:56:30]Motion carried.

[00:56:31]>> So, we have to pay for the attorneys instead of TML? That's what you're saying?

[00:56:38]>> Maybe we should hold a citizen's vote.

[00:56:40]Recall.

[00:56:41]>> Yeah. Yeah, recall.

[00:56:45]Yeah.

[00:56:46]>> We're going to file a lawsuit. He's writing a check.

[00:56:48]>> Yeah.

[00:56:54]>> What's that?

[00:56:55]>> I have freedom of speech, ma'am.

[00:56:56]Freedom of speech.

[00:56:58]>> It would require something major or disorderly conduct for me to remove someone.

[00:57:02]>> Yeah, remove me.

[00:57:03]>> Item number nine.

[00:57:05]Discuss and possibly take action to terminate the legal services agreement with Clay P. Gaddis PLLC and directing the city administrator, Cynthia Dozier, to notify the firm and take all necessary steps to protect the city's legal interests.

[00:57:24]>> He needs to discuss.

[00:57:25]>> Would you like to speak?

[00:57:27]>> I have no comment on this.

[00:57:28]>> All right, thank you.

[00:57:29]So, Mr. Christian.

[00:57:33]>> I did sign up for this one as well, Mr. Brannon.

[00:57:35]>> Wow.

[00:57:39]Thank you.

[00:57:42]>> Let me get this straight.

[00:57:44]Y'all are going to fire an attorney, someone who's been to law school. You have a degree, I assume, correct? Yeah. In the law, right?

[00:57:54]And you're going to allow this woman to be your attorney?

[00:57:59]To handle legal matters?

[00:58:01]She's the one that got you all this liability. Now you're firing the guy that could have protected you from liability, so that you can hire the woman to create more liability, who hasn't Where's your law degree at, ma'am?

[00:58:13]>> I don't have a law degree.

[00:58:14]>> YOU DON'T?

[00:58:16]WOW. SHE DOESN'T HAVE a law degree, and she's going to handle Look at the agenda. She's going to handle legal matters for the city.

[00:58:24]Wow. I I hope you have a good Google degree, and I hope that you have a good subscription to Claude AI or something like that. Maybe a LexisNexis account, but ladies and gentlemen, what you're about to do is fire an actual attorney and hire I don't even know who she is.

[00:58:46]But she's not an attorney.

[00:58:48]>> No, she's not.

[00:58:49]>> And she's going to handle legal matters.

[00:58:51]So I I I have seen a lot of weird stuff in this state.

[00:58:56]I have never seen this.

[00:59:00]You think it's bad now?

[00:59:02]Get rid of your attorney.

[00:59:05]You think you're in trouble now?

[00:59:09]Get rid of your attorney. You should be getting rid of your police department.

[00:59:13]Because it's being led by a tyrant.

[00:59:17]Um and someone who admittedly By the way, your sergeant admitted to me they don't have to know uh case law regarding the laws they enforce.

[00:59:28]He literally told me that.

[00:59:30]You know who would be able to fix that?

[00:59:31]An attorney.

[00:59:33]>> [laughter] >> Do you think she's going to teach the chief the law and the sergeant?

[00:59:37]Thank you.

[00:59:38]>> Thank you.

[00:59:39]>> Ma'am, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK.

[00:59:41]>> [applause] >> I HAVE NO INTENTION TO FEED ANYBODY'S LAWYER. I'm supposed to take bids for the lawyer.

[00:59:50]>> Protect the city's legal interests.

[00:59:53]Well, can you do it right here, please?

[00:59:54]>> Yeah, I can How about I just stand up here?

[00:59:56]>> That'll be fine.

[00:59:56]>> Um first of all, we I on the agenda it was in the wrong code. He was done as an employee, not a contract. We just terminated him so he could take bids and he could apply again for the bid. It's not a matter of me being a juror. I'm just supposed to take the bids from different attorneys. That's all that is.

[01:00:14]>> That's all real convenient.

[01:00:17]>> Yes.

[01:00:18]>> Real convenient.

[01:00:20]Ignorance and doing what >> We did gender. I'm just taking bids.

[01:00:25]That's what I'm supposed to do at a city >> On whose order?

[01:00:31]>> All right, so >> On the law's order.

[01:00:35]>> Does anybody else wish to come to the podium and speak for 20 minutes on this agenda item?

[01:00:42]Any further discussion up here?

[01:00:44]>> I'll go.

[01:00:45]>> All right, sorry. Go ahead.

[01:00:49]>> I guess I'll just give you a chance to clear it up. So, you're telling us he was hired under the wrong code?

[01:00:55]>> Correct.

[01:00:56]>> And so, rather than correcting that >> This executive session was unlawful, so the actions that were made >> rather >> We're just trying to redo it.

[01:01:04]>> Right. So, oh, but rather than redoing it, you're actually terminating him and opening up bids again?

[01:01:10]>> Yes.

[01:01:11]>> So, you you you made a mistake I just Respectfully, I'm just trying to understand. You made a mistake in the process of hiring him?

[01:01:18]And so, to correct that you're deciding no longer to hire him, but to open it up back to the status before you had hired him, rather than just correct the procedural issue in his hiring?

[01:01:29]>> I figure he's going to be the one who puts in a bid and he'll be rehired.

[01:01:32]>> Even if that's the case, you're not fixing the problem and maintaining the same attorney. You're replacing the attorney.

[01:01:38]>> Mr. Mayor, by name.

[01:01:40]>> Yes, sir.

[01:01:42]>> To clear it up.

[01:01:44]You said you you you illustrated perfectly. There's a procedural issue, the way the city is looking at it, is rectifying that issue.

[01:01:54]Mr. Uh I don't know you, uh but I'm going to call you Clayton cuz he's a really cool guy.

[01:02:01]Clayton has all the opportunity in the world.

[01:02:04]>> Right, but what I'm saying is he was hired.

[01:02:06]>> Sure.

[01:02:06]>> There was a procedural issue in that.

[01:02:08]>> Correct.

[01:02:08]>> And so rather than fix the procedural issue to maintain his employment here, they're taking that opportunity to rescind that and open it back up to bidding?

[01:02:16]>> Based on what Mr. Dozier just explained, if it was done ultra vires, then I would think that this is the only way to rectify it.

[01:02:23]>> even hear him tell me cuz he didn't say anything [clears throat] up there. He didn't give you a chance to take any bids at the time. But you already said it's cuz y'all didn't agree with each other. You said that earlier.

[01:02:31]>> That was after That was after we hired him.

[01:02:34]>> Exactly.

[01:02:36]>> Well, look, guys, what I'm going to go back to that.

[01:02:39]We need to get this thing wrapped up.

[01:02:42]>> Well, seeing as my time >> Thank you.

[01:02:45]>> Point of order, is that what I'm supposed to say?

[01:02:47]>> It's close enough.

[01:02:48]>> May I speak on this item?

[01:02:50]>> You may.

[01:03:01]>> I came to just sit and listen to find out what was going on with the city that I've lived in for more than 50 years.

[01:03:13]That is my son-in-law.

[01:03:16]He lives here.

[01:03:19]He's rooted here.

[01:03:21]He cares about this city.

[01:03:23]>> Amen.

[01:03:24]>> Yeah.

[01:03:24]>> He cares about this town.

[01:03:27]He's growing a family here.

[01:03:31]He built a home here.

[01:03:33]He is not up I'm not being accusatory.

[01:03:38]But he is not coming into this town to gain attention or mutt or make money off of this little city that he lives in.

[01:03:53]He drinks the water.

[01:03:55]He cares about this place.

[01:03:59]And for you all to turn your back >> on one of your own.

[01:04:05]>> on one of your own that cares about serving this community.

[01:04:10]And I would stand up to Jesus Christ and swear before all the angels that he never bullied anybody.

[01:04:23]He will tell you the truth. He is honest.

[01:04:28]And he hates me right now for doing this, just so you know.

[01:04:33]But he is very very almost to a fault honest and transparent.

[01:04:45]He would never discuss anything that was a legal matter outside of the proper boundaries.

[01:04:57]He is trustworthy.

[01:04:59]He's a servant. He doesn't He's not [clears throat] out for gain.

[01:05:05]>> Ma'am, your time is up.

[01:05:07]>> Okay.

[01:05:07]>> Thank you, MA'AM.

[01:05:08]>> THANK YOU.

[01:05:10]>> [applause] >> MAY I SAY SOMETHING?

[01:05:14]>> YES.

[01:05:19]>> SO, I'M I'M just a village idiot, man.

[01:05:21]Single father. I've been here for 30 years. My great-grandparents grew up here, and I just I I've I'm emotionally invested in this now.

[01:05:30]I just have one quick question. Did Did you say that in the executive session that that was not legal that when you hiring him was not legal in that executive session?

[01:05:40]>> Just want to say that it was unlawful because he was not under the right code.

[01:05:43]He was under employee, not a contract employee.

[01:05:45]>> Okay, so all all I all I have to say is how could we terminate somebody if that executive session was never legal in the first place? And then you'll have an opportunity to save yourselves if that's the case.

[01:06:04]>> [applause] >> Yes.

[01:06:08]You don't mind?

[01:06:09]>> It's not going to >> Give me like 2 minutes.

[01:06:22]>> Looking at the council's agenda, they're wanting to fire this good man right here.

[01:06:29]And they already had the firm replacement already announced who they're going to hire at the council meeting before they went to executive session.

[01:06:36]>> Yep.

[01:06:36]>> That doesn't sound like they're going to rebid the contract back out again. So, who's lied TO WHO?

[01:06:49]>> MR. GATTIS, ARE YOU RELATED DO YOU THINK Do you think the lawyers for the lawsuits and everything >> All right.

[01:06:57]>> I'm not going to do this. Never mind.

[01:06:59]>> I just want to try to fix it real quick.

[01:07:01]>> No, I'm not trying to fix anything. It's they represent different kinds of laws.

[01:07:07]Does that make sense?

[01:07:09]>> No.

[01:07:09]>> Litigation. You told You said in your meeting you didn't want to do litigation, didn't you not?

[01:07:16]>> And >> You You didn't want to do litigation. Is that what you said?

[01:07:20]>> I'm going to answer the presiding officer.

[01:07:23]>> Oh, okay.

[01:07:25]I see.

[01:07:25]>> So, and I'll I'll be back.

[01:07:29]What what I think you're asking, Ms. Nosier, is if Mr. Gattis and Flowers Davis practice different areas of law.

[01:07:42]>> Yes, Mr. Gattis said he did want to do litigation.

[01:07:45]>> Right.

[01:07:45]>> And and we need it right now with the lawsuit.

[01:07:47]>> I understand that. I understand that.

[01:07:50]And and I believe that to be factual.

[01:07:53]However, if we were going to seek additional or another attorney, with the city attorney already under contract, it would make sense to me that we would go to that city attorney and have him take care of that process, not do it on our own.

[01:08:16]>> Mhm.

[01:08:16]>> He is our legal counsel.

[01:08:18]>> who sent us letters telling us we were allowed to talk to anybody.

[01:08:21]>> Oh, oh.

[01:08:23]Come on.

[01:08:23]>> So, which is not right.

[01:08:27]>> Just to be clear, if you look at the first paragraph in the engagement letter, it it specifically says that we would work in tandem with the city attorney.

[01:08:34]>> We are not correct.

[01:08:35]>> And I'm not a city attorney.

[01:08:36]>> So, you're not a city attorney. That was my question to you.

[01:08:38]>> No, we won't have a city attorney if you fire him.

[01:08:40]>> Correct.

[01:08:41]>> Now, there's an agenda item for that coming up.

[01:08:44]>> Yes.

[01:08:45]>> I have one question for you.

[01:08:46]>> Yes, sir.

[01:08:47]>> Uh what are the reasons you get fired?

[01:08:49]The attorney of Nassau County.

[01:08:51]>> Well, >> [clears throat] >> there's not one that I'm aware of.

[01:08:59]>> Everybody right?

[01:09:00]>> She disagrees with him.

[01:09:01]>> All right.

[01:09:02]>> You said that.

[01:09:03]>> All right.

[01:09:03]So, anybody else wish to come to the podium and speak on item number 10?

[01:09:14]Any discussion up here?

[01:09:19]I will entertain a motion.

[01:09:39]So I have a motion by Marie. Do I have a second?

[01:09:49]Do we have a second?

[01:09:54]I will take care of that.

[01:09:57]Calm down.

[01:10:13]So All right.

[01:10:18]I understand.

[01:10:20]We have a motion by Marie, a second by Chandra, to dis- to take action to terminate the legal service agreement with Clayton B.

[01:10:30]Gattis PLLC, and directing the city administrator, Cynthia Dozier, to notify the firm and take all necessary steps to protect the city's legal interests.

[01:10:41]All those in favor say I.

[01:10:44]>> I.

[01:10:44]>> I.

[01:10:45]>> Opposed?

[01:10:47]Opposed?

[01:10:50]Motion carries.

[01:10:55]Do you want a roll call? Yes, sir.

[01:10:57]>> So, we will once again call the roll.

[01:11:00]Councilman Bowman?

[01:11:02]No, I'm sorry. Yes or no to the to the motion.

[01:11:05]>> So, we have a motion to table.

[01:11:08]>> She broke contract.

[01:11:10]>> Yes would be in the affirmative to approve the motion. No would be opposed.

[01:11:16]So, in regard to >> No, and then we go we hired a bit.

[01:11:20]>> There's There's no discussion.

[01:11:22]>> No.

[01:11:22]>> Allegedly.

[01:11:24]>> Yeah, there's nothing on the agenda.

[01:11:26]>> But, no.

[01:11:27]>> So, I just needed yes or no from you, ma'am.

[01:11:32]No.

[01:11:33]>> Good job, Donald.

[01:11:33]>> Thank you.

[01:11:34]>> Thank you, Donald.

[01:11:37]>> Leah?

[01:11:37]>> Yes.

[01:11:38]>> Of course.

[01:11:39]>> Marie?

[01:11:40]>> Yes.

[01:11:41]>> Of course.

[01:11:42]>> Chandra?

[01:11:43]>> Yes.

[01:11:43]>> Yeah, I'm surprised on that one.

[01:11:44]>> You like it?

[01:11:46]>> Shocking.

[01:11:52]>> All right. There's your roll call.

[01:11:53]Motion carries.

[01:11:57]Item number 10.

[01:12:00]Only if dismissal or termination results from action item number seven, discuss and possibly take action regarding the appointment of Susan Carver as municipal judge.

[01:12:15]>> Point of order, Mr. Mayor.

[01:12:17]>> Listen.

[01:12:19]>> Um So, point of order, the >> I was here.

[01:12:22]>> Number 10 says only if dismissal or termination results uh from action item number seven. Action item item number seven is void as to law. Therefore, no such termination or dismissal uh occurred, and therefore this item should be removed from the agenda.

[01:12:37]>> That's right.

[01:12:38]>> Fair enough.

[01:12:40]Mr. Gadsden, do you care to weigh in on that subject?

[01:12:43]>> We got a new department head.

[01:12:44]>> We got a new department head.

[01:12:45]>> What's he going to say that doesn't owe you anything?

[01:12:47]>> The new guy.

[01:12:53]>> Mary, you have a here. I think you would agree, right?

[01:12:58]>> Um >> Mr. Gresham, could you repeat it again?

[01:13:03]>> Uh yes, so my point of order is uh item agenda item number 10 states only if dismissal or termination results from action in item number seven.

[01:13:13]Uh what happened under action item number seven was that the city council voted to terminate Judge Bivins.

[01:13:19]However, that vote violates statutory law under the Texas Government Code and is therefore void as an operation of law. Therefore, dismissal or termination did not result and therefore item number 10 is not applicable.

[01:13:35]>> If if void, he's correct on that on that point. Uh I would just go back to what I had stated earlier about the agenda as a whole um going against the rules of procedure, which is all public.

[01:13:48]Um so, at the very least, I would say that it's voidable.

[01:13:54]But, um you know, as a point of caution, I would suggest staying away from this item, but that is but that is up to the council to do.

[01:14:06]>> All right, then I won't come back to you again. I understand where you're at, but I know where you where you were on that point.

[01:14:14]So, Mr. Gresham, I would ask one question from you.

[01:14:19]What would establish that I would be in void and that would require a judge's ruling?

[01:14:27]>> Just so you know, >> So, uh what would happen have to happen is that a citizen, any citizen, may file a lawsuit against the city for injunctive and declaratory relief that any action taken under item number seven and or item number 10 be voided uh if this council decides to move forward. Now, it's void as an operation of law, so how it's going to be enforced, I don't know, but uh if uh if it is indeed voidable, then you can do it, and then that's where the citizen uh injunctive relief would come in.

[01:14:59]>> All right. Thank you.

[01:15:01]And that would obviously void anything that happens in item number 10 as well.

[01:15:06]>> And I want to clarify that I'm only speaking as a citizen who happens to be an attorney, and I am not providing you with legal advice. I'm giving you my personal opinion as a lay citizen who happens to be an attorney.

[01:15:16]>> All right. Thank you.

[01:15:18]Anybody else want to speak on this?

[01:15:21]>> All right. I kind of want to speak on this this year.

[01:15:25]Okay.

[01:15:26]Let's do this again.

[01:15:28]All right. We talked about liabilities to the taxpayers earlier. We have had, so far, we have multiple lawsuits already filed and pending.

[01:15:38]We have Chief Charles Gregory who came here from uh I he had at one point in time worked here in Caney City. Who did he bring on?

[01:15:46]Before my termination was even on the agenda, she was in the city administrator's office.

[01:15:53]Not okay. Retaliatory.

[01:15:57]Who called you?

[01:15:57]>> The mayor, the chief to get the call.

[01:15:59]>> Oh, oh, okay. Well, regardless, it was illegal, and regardless, you were in my office before there was an agenda. So, Judge Carver, Judge Carver also happened to work at the same city at the same time.

[01:16:13]Feel free to look up those records. They are very well present. So, do we really want to continue the chain of liability to our own pockets? Because that's what's happening.

[01:16:24]The train is is rolling. Do we really want to keep doing this? Are we going to allow the council to keep doing this?

[01:16:29]>> What can we do about it?

[01:16:31]>> Sue them.

[01:16:34]That's the plan.

[01:16:35]>> Got you.

[01:16:39]>> Okay.

[01:16:41]Anybody else?

[01:16:46]Yes, sir.

[01:16:50]>> Just wanted to real quick remind the council your primary job is to represent these people, represent your community.

[01:16:59]How are you representing your community by doing all of these tonight?

[01:17:04]You You got You're laughing.

[01:17:06]You're laughing at all of this? That's right.

[01:17:09]Right. You guys You guys are are not really taking this very seriously. I think it's a shame.

[01:17:14]>> Thank you.

[01:17:15]>> Thank you.

[01:17:23]>> I just know that I've been watching for years judges and city prosecutors making bad decisions. And when I heard that they made the right decision, it was like a breath of fresh air. And to see the way that they're being treated for making the right decision based on the Constitution and people's civil rights, the way y'all are treating them is disgusting. That's all I got.

[01:17:43]>> Thank you.

[01:17:48]>> Any further comment?

[01:17:50]>> I do.

[01:18:04]>> All right, it looks like the JD's feed It's back on. Okay, double checking. I think he switched out his battery. So, let's jump back in.

[01:18:13]Waiting for the audio to pick back up.

[01:18:14]Here we go. I don't know how you got on here, but I was excited to find out you were going to be on here because I thought that you could stand up against the hypocrisy with those two.

[01:18:23]Those two women.

[01:18:24]And now you're not. You're falling right into line with them, and I'm shocked. I love you, girl, and I need you to be you, the strong person I know, cuz I don't understand what's going on.

[01:18:34]And if it's because you're afraid you're going to get stabbed in the back, we got you. We got you.

[01:18:41]>> [applause] >> Point of order, mayor.

[01:18:47]>> Yes, sir.

[01:18:49]>> As a former city council member myself, uh I'm pretty familiar with uh >> Sir, if if you're going to go the two two minutes, please step up to the podium.

[01:19:00]>> [clears throat] >> So, as a former city council member myself, I'm familiar with uh chapter 21 of uh the Texas Local Government Code. And I heard a lot people ask, "How can they be removed?"

[01:19:19]Incompetency.

[01:19:21]And gross ignorance of them doing their job. If you feel that that's what's happening here, and from my perspective, that's what's happening here.

[01:19:32]You have all right to get with the district judge and start the process.

[01:19:37]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[01:19:43]CAN YOU DO MULTIPLE?

[01:19:45]>> YES.

[01:19:46]>> YOU can't do >> It would still be a different judge.

[01:19:48]>> Thank you.

[01:19:49]>> Point of order.

[01:19:50]>> Yes.

[01:19:56]>> Hello.

[01:19:57]Okay. I don't know a lot of you because I I don't know why, but I'm I'm from Trinidad. I'm a teacher here. My name is Miller Motley.

[01:20:06]>> Thank you.

[01:20:06]>> Um I, along with Diana anyways, came to see what was happening because it's been a long time since I've been at a city council meeting.

[01:20:20]But, you know, the school year.

[01:20:22]Um I can say as a citizen I am fully ashamed of our city council.

[01:20:32]>> Yeah.

[01:20:33]>> Besides Ms. Velma Womack.

[01:20:35]>> Yeah.

[01:20:35]That's right.

[01:20:36]>> I I'm it makes me Oh God. I mean, I see the families that are here, the children that are here.

[01:20:47]Ms. Bannister sees the children that are here.

[01:20:50]I I just I can't I I just can't wrap my mind around how y'all's personal agendas you're you're you're going in your head and you're just like I don't care what anybody says. I'm just going to vote this way no matter what.

[01:21:03]>> Yeah.

[01:21:04]>> No matter who it's harming, no matter and then you just have to shut down to help yourself >> She's the >> feel better about yourself.

[01:21:11]>> fired next.

[01:21:12]>> I I I mean, it's it's gross, y'all. It's icky. I get such a icky feeling sitting in this room.

[01:21:19]>> You're right.

[01:21:20]>> Um it's gross.

[01:21:24]Try Try to do better. I mean, try to do to make moves that on this city council that you're not ashamed of. I mean you should be ashamed of yourself. I mean, you should.

[01:21:37]And if you don't feel that, then I mean, I guess there's no helping and we just need to vote.

[01:21:43]We need to vote differently. I mean >> Absolutely.

[01:21:45]>> Hopefully it doesn't take that long, but that's that's what I'm coming away with thinking.

[01:21:51]>> You're right.

[01:21:53]>> Thank you.

[01:21:55]>> [applause] >> How was Ms. Carver contacted?

[01:22:01]Who?

[01:22:03]>> So I don't know any of that stuff and I don't know that it's actually applicable.

[01:22:13]Um I I think for the for the purpose of this meeting we need to move this along.

[01:22:23]>> We know what our thoughts were. Let's go ahead and >> As well, and I'm not going to comment on that.

[01:22:30]Any discussion? I'm sorry, sir.

[01:22:31]>> Just to get up just a point of order.

[01:22:34]Uh I'm >> I'm not a judge.

[01:22:35]>> Oh, I'm sorry.

[01:22:37]>> [laughter] >> Maybe I wish you were, uh Mr. Mayor.

[01:22:40]I just, you know, there's been some argument about uh us coming in from out of town. We are trying to avoid you being sued more.

[01:22:50]You are a type A city.

[01:22:52]If you remove this judge, as a type A city under the circumstances that she's about to be removed under, under section 29004B, welcome to another lawsuit.

[01:23:06]>> Understood.

[01:23:11]>> I'm trying to avoid that.

[01:23:15]>> Yes.

[01:23:17]Yes, please.

[01:23:28]>> Man, but I I concur with the German, I don't know where he went, they just spoke yes, you.

[01:23:34]Yeah. Oh my goodness, it's just I have a sickening feeling in my stomach. I cannot even believe what's going on here tonight.

[01:23:43]And um I I I want to ask the council, uh I mean, I I think the citizens are going to have to take action if y'all don't do something. And and I mean, is it possible for a council member to revote on some of the things that you voted on tonight? I I just I really and make a make a new motion and do something different because uh what y'all are doing tonight is going to cause the city a lot of liability, cause all the taxpayers a lot of liability, and it it just it hurts that you're not representing everyone here.

[01:24:18]>> Yeah.

[01:24:18]>> Thank you.

[01:24:19]>> Thank you.

[01:24:20]>> [applause] >> All right.

[01:24:23]Any discussion up here on item number 10?

[01:24:28]I'll entertain a vote.

[01:24:32]I mean, I'm sorry. I'll entertain a motion.

[01:24:36]>> I'd like to make a motion to go ahead and hire % talking.

[01:24:38]>> Yep, that's a good thought. Wow.

[01:24:41]>> I have a motion by Marie. Do I have a second?

[01:24:45]>> I'll second that.

[01:24:46]>> Yep, we got one person running the thing.

[01:24:48]>> I have a second by Leah.

[01:24:50]>> Ridiculous.

[01:24:52]>> I'm going to go ahead All right, let's vote.

[01:24:59]I'm going to go ahead and and call this vote just in the beginning.

[01:25:04]So, when I call your name, yes will be in favor of this motion, no will be opposed.

[01:25:11]Ms. Belma Lomax, yes or no?

[01:25:14]No from Ms. Belma.

[01:25:18]William Melton, >> Yes.

[01:25:21]>> Marie Banister, >> Yes.

[01:25:24]>> Charles Sutton, >> Yes.

[01:25:27]Wow.

[01:25:28]>> Motion carries.

[01:25:30]>> [snorts] >> Okay.

[01:25:36]Moving on to item number 11, council member inquiry time.

[01:25:42]Pursuant to Texas Government Code Section 551.042, the mayor or council members may inquire about a subject not specifically listed on this agenda. Responses are limited to a recitation of existing policy or a statement of specific information given in response to the inquiry. Any deliberation or decision shall be limited to a proposal to place the subject on the agenda in the future.

[01:26:15]I would ask the council when we consider the next agenda that we put on that agenda something to take action with the water and also to fill this vacant seat. We have a gentleman right here Mr. Stephen Sherman who has sent an email letting us know he is available, he is willing to serve.

[01:26:44]Uh we can certainly put out a request for other people that want to fill that seat.

[01:26:53]But our next agenda should be something where we are working toward helping our citizens in this town.

[01:27:00]Any other council members that want to speak?

[01:27:02]>> I would like to know when we're going to start working on the alleyways.

[01:27:12]>> Okay, that's >> We'd like to have a meeting >> on the next >> All right, thank you very much.

[01:27:39]Well, I have nothing to add.

[01:27:50]All right, anybody else have council report?

[01:27:55]All right, I'm going to entertain a motion to adjourn.

[01:27:57]>> I make a motion to adjourn.

[01:27:59]>> I'll second.

[01:28:00]>> Uh motion by Maria, second by Elman to adjourn. All of you in favor say aye.

[01:28:04]>> Aye.

[01:28:05]>> Opposed, no.

[01:28:06]The motion carried, we are adjourned.

[01:28:08]>> Maria Bannister, you are an embarrassment to the city of Trinidad. I hope you're proud of yourself.

[01:28:18]>> All right. So, that's a lot to take in, isn't it?

[01:28:22]Lot happened in that last, what, hour and a half of this council meeting. So, just to kind of take it all back because, again, lots to decipher, lots of back and forth, lots of strong opinions, creative wording, and a lot of other things as well. But, this all stems back to arrest with Jennifer Coleman. So, she was the one who was arrested for posting on Facebook about what looked to be dirty water, right?

[01:28:48]You might remember this is what we posted over on our websites, and we had stories on this on our not only our newscast, but we even talked about it here on East Texas Now. Um so, several residents shared pictures of what looked to be very discolored and dirty water coming from the city of Trinidad. Now, let's see here. So, the city is now facing several lawsuits after two arrests of independent journalists regarding the situation. Jennifer Combs, excuse me, Jennifer Combs was arrested and charged with making a false report.

[01:29:19]According to a lawsuit filed in federal court, Combs shared on her Facebook page that at least one person had been hospitalized because of the city's water.

[01:29:29]Again, that was her statement here. Uh the city's police department said that there was no such case and arrested her.

[01:29:36]Uh a YouTuber known as Auto the Watchdog was also arrested for disorderly conduct while protesting her arrest. He's now suing the city as well. Now, Combs' charges were no billed. So, let's see here. This was no billed by the Henderson County Grand Jury.

[01:29:55]Municipal Judge, who you saw there, uh Shelena Bevens Bivens, excuse me, dismissed the charges against Auto.

[01:30:02]Council for the city said that they couldn't comment pending litigation.

[01:30:05]City Council, again, as you saw, they started their meeting at 6:00 tonight, went on till 8:00 hearing comment from, of course, uh city members. Uh we know that they were actually discussing Bevin's position, which of course she walked out of the room, walked out of the building. She had her own representation um uh ready to hand over a cease and desist and many other things. So, I know our reporter JD Conti, him and I were texting back and forth because I was trying to piece things together as things were moving very quickly and of course passion was being thrown around and very angry words. So, he's going to have more for us coming up shortly, but again, I just kind of wanted to take you back and kind of set where this all came from, how this all began and now where it's kind of spilling into the city council and many looking to them for answers because it's their leadership. But, I want to go now and talk to uh this is a reporter or our reporter JD Conti, he actually got to talk to a few people who were seeing the water for themselves and just sharing more about the experience. Again, tying all the way back to the water. So, let's hear more.

[01:31:12]>> Tia, tell me what when you first noticed something's up with the water.

[01:31:17]>> Uh well, uh we got a we remodeled this whole house, so we put a filtration system in not even knowing that the water was like that, but then I started noticing that the cartridges, which is brown, and so that's when I started noticing um that the water which is uh you know, muddy um pretty much. And so then I got a pool for the kids and uh the water was brown, too. So.

[01:31:43]>> Mhm. What have you had to do since then?

[01:31:45]We were just walking throughout the home and you know, just tell me about the the basic things that you guys have had to do. [snorts] >> So, uh I mean, >> [sighs and gasps] >> I just kind of like thought that I mean, I guess we just became complacent complacent and we just thought, "Okay, well, I guess this is a normal thing um for Trinidad." And I had to actually complain to the city and they told me that it was because they weren't flushing their lines, that they were going to flush their lines, and so they would flush the lines and everything was the same. And so then I I actually put in a report to the what department department that oversees the water department, what is it called?

[01:32:24]TCEQ? Yeah. So, I put in a complaint and they came out and checked it, but they didn't come to my house. They actually came near the house and they told me that it was normal, that everything had just come out normal. And so, I thought, "How can it be normal?" So, I guess it's like they tell you so much that it's normal that it you just kind of start believing that it's normal. So, I have two reports with the TCEQ department that both times they told me that it was it was it was fine, that it was probably sediment that kept was coming out from my um from my water heater, that I had to clean it every 6 months, which I thought, "Okay, I mean, how does that make any sense?"

[01:33:05]>> Yeah, how long ago were those TCEQ reports?

[01:33:08]>> Um so, one was recent, like maybe about a month ago or so.

[01:33:14]>> Okay.

[01:33:15]Um so, tell me about some of the other other things you guys have to do. You tell me, you know, you can't wash your clothes, you know, just kind of go into more detail on that.

[01:33:24]>> Uh well, like my whites, the white [snorts] clothes, I don't wash it here at my home because if I do, then it's it's just like automatic brown, you know, clothes. And so, I try to just go maybe out out of [snorts] town to wash my clothes, my whites especially. And so, like my I don't use it for cooking, I don't use it for, you know, washing vegetables or anything like that or fruits. So, I just buy like the 5-gallon waters water to be able to basically cook and to wash my vegetables and fruits.

[01:34:03]>> Yeah. I mean, how do you like live on a daily basis like this when your water isn't clean?

[01:34:08]>> It's pretty I don't know. Like whenever I shower, like it's just like I have this itchy feeling just all over my body just feeling not clean really. And my daughter can tell you more about that.

[01:34:21]>> Yeah, I start breaking out really bad and I feel like itchy. My face gets kind of red and like I feel hot and I don't really know like it's it's just you can't don't feel clean and and sometimes I can't even brush my teeth.

[01:34:34]>> I mean >> have to use bottled water to literally [snorts] brush my teeth.

[01:34:38]>> It's crazy in the year 2026 that you guys have to do this.

[01:34:40]>> Yeah. Yeah, we brush our teeth with bottled water. We never use the tap water for anything that we have to consume. I mean, the shower, we're not going to you know, we we're forced to use it. So, we use it to shower, but that's about it.

[01:34:54]>> What's your hope for this situation, you know? I mean, you were saying, you know, you hope something gets done. It's been 5 years.

[01:35:01]>> Um yeah, I mean, apparently this has been happening for a long time now and uh uh I'm guessing people are just afraid to speak up um to say anything because of the retaliations.

[01:35:15]I don't know what I mean, that's what I keep hearing from residents around me um because, you know, if we don't speak up, then there's not going to be any change. If you don't speak up, then people don't know what's going on.

[01:35:28]And so, I just hope that things change that they maybe do something with the infrastructure of the I don't know. I guess the the what are they called? The pipes are pretty old at this point and that's where we're getting most of the, you know, rust and whatever else is in the water.

[01:35:48]>> Yeah.

[01:35:48]Um you can talk about this as much or as little as you want, but what's your general reaction Ben to the events with Jennifer and Otto and everything, you know?

[01:35:58]>> I mean, I I I told Jennifer, I said, "My respects to you." because she's the one that actually, you know, is is speaking up for for everybody, really. All the residents here in town.

[01:36:10]And um And um she's got my support and you know, making a change. Um and I just think it's it's just It wasn't fair how she got arrested for speaking up, you know, and exercising her rights to, you know, freedom of speech or you know.

[01:36:30]>> Anything else you guys want to say?

[01:36:32]>> No, I just hope that we we have a change and that something changes because we cannot continue living like this because I mean, I cannot imagine just continuing to shower with that this water and like our our skin is our biggest organ. So, it just kind of sucks everything in and and actually, to be honest, I I have noticed that my hands swell up and my face has been swelling up, but you know, I've been to the doctor and they say, "I mean, it's it's got to be my my thyroid." Something to do with my thyroid, but I mean, I wouldn't doubt that you know, my skin is is just so it's toxic, you know, everything's We're um our skin is basically getting all the toxins.