Judge's shocking decision to free stepbrother accused of murdering Anna Kepner in cruise ship cabin

Added: 2026-06-04

[00:00:00]Hey guys, uh thanks so much for uh for checking out my show. Appreciate you guys so much. Thank you so much for uh for checking out my content and for subscribing. Uh I just uh got out of federal court. This is the federal courthouse behind me in in Miami. I was there. The Anna Keaptainner case, which I've been following for a while, that is the teenager who was on the Carnival cruise ship with her family and according to investigators, her stepbrother, 16-year-old Timothy Hudson.

[00:00:27]Terrible story. Uh raped her. brutally raped her and there were some just awful new details that came out today which I'll get into and then murdered her, strangled her to death according to investigators. Uh and again just new details today that were terrible. I mean apparently it took 3 to 5 minutes for her to die as he uh was strangling her.

[00:00:48]Um and what is shocking is that he is still free. I thought that he would walk into court today uh and that he wouldn't walk out because the the the charges and the allegations are so horrific. But he walked back out free to go back home with his uncle, which I'm going to explain the reasoning that the judge gave and I'm going to explain all of the new details that came out uh in court. I was just up there. I had to take all handwritten notes because they don't allow phones in federal court. At least they didn't for me. Uh so I'll get into all of it uh in this episode of Brian Anthony. Hey guys. All right. So, I'm outside federal court. I'm going to go through everything that happened in the hearing and the new information that we have when it comes to what allegedly happened to Anna Keaptainner. Remember, this happened on a Carnival cruise ship in November, international waters. Uh there was a family trip. You know, Anna was sharing a room with her stepbrother Timothy Hudson and her other brother.

[00:01:43]And um according to investigators, and it's the FBI that investigated, her stepbrother, 16-year-old Timothy, uh raped her um and some of the details are just awful, which I'll I'll get into in a second, and then strangled her to death, and um hit her hid her under the bed, wrapped her in a blanket, covered her in life jackets, and actually went to sleep in the room with the other brother. The other brother didn't even know that the dead sister was hidden under the bed. I mean, it's just it's horrific. Um, and there's been a lot of outrage because how is this suspect still free? Look, he is 16 years old and he was initially charged as a juvenile, but he has since been charged as an adult. It was changed. He is now being treated as an adult in the federal system. Uh, charged with murder and rape, yet still walking free. And you can see in the video he walked into the courthouse and he walked out of the courthouse and he's living with his uncle right now up uh near Tampa, Florida. The hearing was here in Miami.

[00:02:44]Um so I personally thought that he would be taken into custody. Uh but as I'm going to get into in a second, it's more complicated than that because he's a juvenile because the federal system is not really set up for juveniles. So I took really detailed notes of everything that happened in the hearing. I'm going to go through it with you now. Bear with me because basically you're not allowed to have electronics in federal court.

[00:03:07]You actually are if you fill out all these forms, which I forgot to do yesterday, so all I had was my notebook.

[00:03:12]So, and I have terrible handwriting. So, like sometimes they even have a hard time reading my own handwriting. So, just bear with me as I go through my notes. But Timothy uh came into court, the suspect arrived with his family. Uh he was wearing a short sleeve shirt, uh blonde hair, looked like a fresh haircut. uh looks like a 16-year-old, which to me was just kind of weird sitting in court thinking about that. I mean, he looks like a cleancut 16-year-old kid. And so, you're hearing these allegations and you're like, "Oh my god." Like, it's just kind of hard when you look at him to piece together what he is accused of. But he sat there, short sleeve, button-up, um again, fresh haircut, blonde hair. They referred to him as TH in court, which is interesting. They don't call him by his full name because he's still technically underage and 16, which kind of confused me because I thought once they charged him as an adult, they would start referring to him by his real name, Timothy Hudson. But in court, they just refer to him as TH. Um before um they were operating under what they called the Juvenile Delinquency Act. So that's the federal system that handles juveniles. that's now changed because he is now officially an being charged as an adult even though he's 16.

[00:04:25]Uh there was some new information with the timeline. According to the FBI, the victim's last communication was at 8:14 p.m. She was on Snapchat. So that was apparently before the murder and the rape happened.

[00:04:38]Um prosecution was asking for detention, saying he needs to be locked up. uh concerned that he is a flight risk or a danger to society. Uh they believe uh that the game has changed now that he is charged as an adult. Before he was being charged as a juvenile, now he's being charged as an adult. And the the prosecutor told the judge, look, the game has changed now that he's being treated as an adult. He's looking at a life sentence, a minimum of 24 years.

[00:05:07]They also believe that that creates a real danger for him fleeing for flight risk. Um they said that the prosecutor said that the the family could feel bad for him and help him flee now that they know that he faces a life sentence. Um that there is clear evidence that he is a danger. Um that he again raped his his stepsister.

[00:05:29]Um and I don't even want to say some of this stuff like in this episode, but it was brutal. And they described the rape, the alleged rape that her underwear was shoved inside her. They said that his DNA was found inside her that connected him to her.

[00:05:47]Um, his semen. Uh, that Anna had bruising on her neck. That she was pinned down. And remember, this was in a Carnival cruise ship cabin. That he strangled her to death. That there's no way that this was an accident. Again, this was all according to the prosecutor as she was making her argument of why he should not remain free. Uh, that he strangled her.

[00:06:10]um for so long that her eard drum burst and that there was blood in her eardrum.

[00:06:16]That's how brutal the strangulation was and that it lasted three to five minutes. So there was three to five minutes where she was essentially dying and and and suffering and that there was blood in her eard drum. It's just horrific to think about. But I look I struggle with whether to share some of these details, but this is what was said in court. And I think for people following the story, you need to know the details. And it's also important when you consider that this kid walked out of court. So, I want to share these things with you, even though I know it's kind of rough. Um, surveillance video the prosecutor said shows that this is not a who done it because it shows him entering the cabin. Shows her entering the cabin and then she ends up dead and there's no one else that could have done it because there is a surveillance camera in the hallway of the cruise ship. Um, this was new. So, the prosecutor explained that Timothy tried to get rid of Anna Keaptainner's cell phone, that um there was a ship employee who found the phone, that he took her phone and put it into a trash can on the ship, and that somehow through the routers in the ship, because the phone was connected to the Wi-Fi plan through the Carnival cruise ship, there was a staff member that was able to find her phone in the garbage. And so, the prosecutor made the case that look, he was trying to cover up what he did. Not only did he rape and murder her, but he tried to cover it up by hiding her phone because there was evidence on the phone.

[00:07:35]Um, surveillance video showed who committed this crime, DNA evidence.

[00:07:40]Again, according to the prosecutor, she said he has no criminal history. He lives with his uncle, but he's allowed to visit his father and he works with his father. And just the fact that he's able to leave and work with his father and do all of this stuff out in society is a concern. And the prosecutor said, um, he lives with two minors. She said, what she found to be especially concerning considering these allegations and she said, "We don't know who the next person will be, who the next person he will be fixated on will be." So, she made the allegation that he was fixated on his stepsister, that he had no criminal history, but became fixated on her, and then apparently somehow snapped. Um, which I'm going to probably do a future episode with like a forensic psychologist because how does someone just snap and do this? But apparently, according to the prosecutor, it's possible. Became fixated with Anna and then snapped and did this. She said he has EHD, ADHD.

[00:08:30]There is no sign that he was a danger before and that's concerning. And then she said used the phrase 0 to 60. He went 0 to 60. No sign as of a danger as being a danger before and then all of a sudden rapes and murders someone and that's why he is such a danger to society. She said 0 to 60 is how she described it.

[00:08:50]Uh she said something about the boyfriend, Anna's ex-boyfriend, her boyfriend saw the stepbrother trying to get into Anna's bed at one point and and let the family know. And and she basically was making the point, the prosecutor, that the family should have never let them share a cabin together in the first place. Um that they were just trying to save money, but they should have never shared a cabin. That there were warning signs there in some regard.

[00:09:13]That was at least the vibe I was getting from the prosecutor. Um they talked about how there's no case law. how unusual this is. And again, they're not equipped for a juvenile in the federal system. It became very clear the judge was asking a lot of questions. They were explaining how there's just no precedent when it comes to a lot of this. They don't typically try juveniles in federal court. And normally when there is a juvenile case like this, they will hand it over to the state court because the state court has a juvenile system. They have juvenile detention centers. They are used to trying juveniles and that that is what it seems like the federal system would prefer to do. But the issue in this case is that this happened in international waters on a cruise ship.

[00:09:56]So there is no state to hand the case over to. So they are stuck with it trying to sort it out. And that came up over and over again that that this is a unique situation that there is no case law that it is unusual. And um that that was one of the reasons it seems I mean the judge even said at one point that he would have had Timothy in custody from the beginning if he was an adult, but it's more unusual because he's a juvenile. So after the prosecution made her case of like he definitely needs to be locked up, he's dangerous. He could flee. No question. This I hate to say kid, but this teenager needs to go behind bars. Then the defense made their case saying, "Look," he said, the defense attorney said it's a circumstantial case with a theory that has a lot of gaps in it. Kept saying that it's very circumstantial. Um, that he had no issues before, that he's complied since he's been out on bond, that he's been to all of his court appearances, his uncle has been keeping a close eye on him, that he hasn't tried to run in the past, there's no risk of flight. He surrendered himself from the beginning.

[00:10:59]He doesn't have a driver's license, he said. So, how could he flee if he doesn't have have a driver's license? He doesn't have a car. So, how could he flee if he doesn't have a car? Um, and he said that the uncle and the father are willing to co-sign on the bond. So, they were willing to guarantee that he will not flee and that he will follow the rules. Um, and he kept saying, "The defense attorney, I have serious doubts about the case." And he kept saying that there were gaps in the case. And the judge tried to get him to elaborate at one point. Um, and he just said, "Look, I'm not going to try the case here, but there are gaps." And just look, thinking back to what the prosecutor said, again, we don't know all the details, but she says there's DNA clearly connecting him to the rape and that the surveillance video shows he was the only one in the room when Anna Keaptainner was strangled to death. So, I don't know what gaps the defense attorney is talking about, but look, we haven't heard all the evidence yet. If this goes to trial, we'll find out, but he kept saying that there were gaps. Um, the judge kept pushing back, saying, "Look, this doesn't seem all that circumstantial." Uh the defense questioned whether the sex was consensual, which was kind of interesting. Uh but again, remember the prosecutor said that Anna's underwear was up inside her and that it was clearly, you know, bruises from strangulation, that it was clearly not consensual. Um and um he said the defense said that this case is riddled with assumptions.

[00:12:19]Um and he proposed a personal shity bond with a GPS monitor again where the uncle and the dad would sign off. Um and sorry again my handwriting is terrible.

[00:12:35]Uh so then the judge started speaking when he started to make his decision and said he wants to know whether there is an open um is there an option closer to the family in terms if he was going to put him away. could he put him away close to his family where he lives near Tampa. He asked the marshalss to do an inquiry basically into the local, state, and county level um juvenile detention centers cuz remember those aren't run by the federal government. He wants the Marshall Service to look into some of those and get back to him uh because um because he has to make sure that they fit within the federal guidelines.

[00:13:11]Remember the federal system has certain guidelines for prisons and the way people are housed. So the judge asked the US Marshall Service to look into some of these facilities and then get back to him. Uh and ultimately decided that he was going to let Timothy walk free again. So Timothy walked into court today and he walked out and we all chased him with our cameras. We tried to ask him questions. He obviously didn't respond. He was surrounded by family and attorneys. He got into an SUV that was waiting. But I think a lot of people were shocked thinking that Timothy would be locked up today. Uh, you know, there was the option of putting him in the regular adult jail while they figured out what juvenile uh facility to move him to, but the judge opted not to do that. Said that he will remain on home detention with his uncle, that he'll be electronically monitored, that he's not allowed to leave the house. That was a little confusing. At one point, he said he wasn't allowed to leave the house, but then I think he just has to be with his uncle at all times. So, I think if his uncle leaves, maybe he's allowed to go with him. But at the end of the day, he's free. He's back in his uncle's house. Though, the judge did say he's going to elicit a report from the US Marshalss about the different facilities that that Timothy could be housed in juvenile detention facilities. And he asked for that report, and it seems he's going to look at that and then make a final decision. So, doesn't mean that Timothy Hudson is going to remain free forever. Uh but at least for now he is going to go back to his uncle's house which again shocked a lot of people. I mean the allegations are just so serious. And the judge even said flat out if this was an adult I would have said no bond from the beginning. I would have kept him in jail but because he's a juvenile the circumstances are different. So that was the latest. Let me make sure I didn't miss anything.

[00:14:54]That was really the latest from court.

[00:14:55]There were like I said a couple added on restrictions. Must stay home with his uncle will allow him. Um, yeah, basically the same restrictions he was under to begin with while he waits for this inquiry by the marshals. So, that was really the latest. Um, I my buddy Ben Ashford, who you guys have seen on my show before, he works for the Daily Mail. He was also in court and he's like a real expert on this case. I've been following it since the beginning, but he's been to like literally every hearing and knows the case inside and out. So, I am going to leave court and go meet up with Ben and get his take on some things. and he also has some new information and I want you guys to hear from him. So, I'm going to pick it up with Ben in a second. All right. So, I'm joined now by Ben in his car who is also at the hearing who's been covering uh the Ana Kapner story really since the beginning. You've been to like all the hearings, you know, the families. Yeah.

[00:15:46]>> Um what was your reaction >> to the decision that he w I mean that I wasn't I personally wasn't expecting him to walk out.

[00:15:54]>> Um I thought it could go either way. I thought he could well be locked up. He could also leave. But what I didn't really expect is there for it to be unresolved. I didn't see why at this stage it was like a hearing initially calling for another hearing. I think it was frustrating for everyone involved. And I know it will be very frustrating for the family from when I've spoken to like Anna's dad before. They just want it resolved. They want him in custody as well. But I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I don't sit in the federal courts every day. But it seemed frustrating when he had all that information there. The judge today, Judge Edwin Torres, um they'd had a three-hour hearing previously and there wasn't enough information to decide what to do with him. I that that's what surprised me. I thought it was going to be in out. We would have minimal information, which has been the trend throughout the process, and they would basically announce a decision that they had made almost behind closed doors. It was the opposite. We turned up and the the judge was almost asking the lawyers, "What am I here to do?" Oh, I've never really reviewed one of my own decisions before.

[00:17:13]It was all a bit chaotic. Um, and in the end, if you fast forward a couple of hours, he didn't reach a decision. and he just pushed it further down the road.

[00:17:23]So, he didn't say he wouldn't put Timothy in custody. He said, of course, that he wanted to know if there was a juvenile facility, an appropriate facility for a juvenile, a state facility that he could be housed in that was closer to his family in Hernando County because he said even though he's been prosecuted as an adult now, um you the statutes, the federal law means you still have to be cognizant of the boy's age and his needs. So he can't be with adult prisoners. He can't be held in solitary confinement. So if you think about that, if you send him to an adult jail and you put him in a part of the jail that didn't include adults, that might amount to solitary confinement. So he needs to be in a a proper juvenile facility around other juveniles where he can be let out of his cell where he's got access to education.

[00:18:25]Um, and they contract it out to the state of Florida. They had lined up a facility in Miami. I think they said there was a choice of two in Miami. And then they asked the uh defense lawyer, the federal um public defender, and he basically said, "Well, if you are going to lock him up, it's probably better for me if it's in Miami because I need access to my client." And then the judge said, "Well, actually, I think he needs regular visits from his family and therefore he needs to be up in um North Central Florida." And he asked the US Marshall Service to go away and do a factf finding mission and to see if there is an appropriate facility for him when they had already done all that and said there's a place for him in Miami.

[00:19:15]So that's where we're at. So, one would presume that there will now be another hearing and they'll come back and they'll say, "Okay, the US Marshall Service said you can put him in this place, I don't know, in Hillsbor County or Tampa or whatever, and then they'll have the same argument." And you would imagine at that point the judge will be satisfied and he'll put him in custody.

[00:19:38]But at that point, it might be a couple of weeks off the trial. So, what's the point? So, you've you've seen Timothy before, but you went out to where he's staying with the uncle. Yeah.

[00:19:48]>> I think you have you seen him at another court hearing, too?

[00:19:51]>> Um, >> no. We saw him go into a closed door court hearing.

[00:19:57]>> Okay.

[00:19:57]>> So, that's the first time we've seen him. We sat in a courtroom.

[00:20:00]>> But you've seen him outside before?

[00:20:01]>> I've seen him outside in the place where he is now under house arrest.

[00:20:06]>> So, what did you think of him? I'll tell you what I thought first. I mean, I He looks like a boy. I mean, he's a >> 16-year-old kid. Um, he seemed >> like he was wasn't really paying that close of attention. Like, I I noticed he was kind of like playing with his lips at one point. Like, I don't think he was like really focused in.

[00:20:25]>> It's hard to imagine the allegations are terrible, but like what did you think when what did you make of him?

[00:20:31]>> The first time I saw him, I thought, "Wow, he's a little scrawny pipsqueak."

[00:20:37]You know, I thought how I'm not disputing the evidence or the charges or saying whether he's guilty of anything.

[00:20:45]I wondered that such a scrawny little kid could overpower anyone. I mean, he did not he does not he's not big. He's very slender. He's small. I would say for 16, he looks maybe more like 14, 15.

[00:20:59]And to me, it just looked like a rabbit in the headlines today. in the headlights. He was just sat in court staring forward quietly. He blew his nose a few times. I don't think he was crying. I think he probably had a cold or something. But I didn't really see any any emotion. I just saw him staring dead ahead, very dead pan. I don't think he I I don't get the sense that he really quite understands what's going on or how serious it is.

[00:21:25]>> I think that's right. I think that's part of the problem. I think he he when I spoke to him, he just sort of stared at me blankly.

[00:21:32]Um, I may sound ridiculous, but that's kind of what happens when you go up to a boy and ask him a question.

[00:21:39]>> Yeah. No, >> you know, you get that sort of answer.

[00:21:42]And it was like that. It was that, you know, he's the same age as my nephew.

[00:21:45]And it is is about the same size as my nephew. And and that's a a shuddering thought of someone that just goes to show, you know, someone who's so young and underdeveloped.

[00:21:59]>> Yeah. is in this situation like how did he if he did those things their allegations how where did that come from in such a young child?

[00:22:07]>> Well, I mean and he's obviously innocent till proven guilty, but the prosecutor laid it out. I mean the surveillance video, he's the only one who went in the room.

[00:22:14]>> Yeah.

[00:22:14]>> Uh his semen was found inside her.

[00:22:18]>> Um >> he tried, which was new. I hadn't heard this about the phone.

[00:22:23]>> He tried to get rid of the phone. Yeah.

[00:22:25]Yeah, >> which I thought that was actually very interesting that he got it into a trash can and that they used the Wi-Fi router >> to find the phone.

[00:22:35]>> You know, I had actually heard that a long time ago. I'd heard that and I wasn't really able to stand it up, so I didn't publish it. And what I thought at the time was if you're on a cruise ship and you might have a balcony. I don't think they had a balcony, but >> if you want to dispose of a phone and you're on a cruise ship, you just go out on deck and you throw it over the side of the boat, >> why on earth would you put it in a trash can? Well, the answer is if you're 16 and you're stupid, you might do that allegedly.

[00:23:06]>> So perhaps, you know, I mean, the obvious thing is to drop it over the side of the ship, but he didn't do that. And I I thought that this just sounds crazy that he just put it in a trash can. allegedly that's what he did.

[00:23:20]>> They talked about him living with he lives with the uncle but also two minors. Do you know anything about are there other kids there?

[00:23:26]>> Um I know there's at least one child and it did say it referred to plural children in the filing. So yeah, there could be there could be I I'd seen like a social media picture of the uncle with a child and it might have been a few years old. So they might have another child, but I don't know the ages of of their children. It is kind of shocking that someone accused of murder and rape and even the details of him strangling her and her basically dying for 3 to five minutes and the blood in her eardrums.

[00:24:00]>> I mean, all of the details were awful.

[00:24:02]And you're looking at the 16-year-old thinking like, "Oh my god, you know, he's accused of this."

[00:24:06]>> But it it I still am having a hard time with like him being able to leave, >> be free essentially, and in the same house as two minors. Like I'm surprised the judge isn't more worried about that.

[00:24:19]>> Well, I think what happened was almost immediately he was placed in that house and then you had the Brevard County family court proceedings where that came up and they said, "Okay, we're putting him in this house." So, we know that as soon as they got back from the cruise, they know there's this shadow of suspicion over Timothy. So they sent him away from the house which they had to do really if you think about it and he's been there ever since. So he's been there for a long time now and there's never been any issue I think because the family court in Brevard County said oh that's okay kind of endorsed the arrangement and they had to f file like an affidavit saying they would leave him there and they wouldn't go and get him. Um, and then this judge inherits the case and he's a boy and the excuse me, I think it's the Juvenile Delinquency Act.

[00:25:18]>> That's they pointed this out in court today.

[00:25:22]>> When you enter the federal system as a kid, you're under this very kind of kid gloves piece of legislation that means it's about rehabilitation rather than punishment. you come out at age 21 is it regardless of what you did and um there was yeah you don't get a criminal record. So that was the framework in which he came into the court system. So under that law they let him spend the past 3 months with his uncle. So when they got into court today even though it's the bail reform act which is a much tougher act because it now he's an adult >> the juvenile legislation doesn't apply.

[00:26:02]He's an adult now. But this was the argument that there's so much water under the bridge now. So if a murderer, if someone kills someone on a Saturday night and they're in court on Monday, they don't know what they're going to do. So they lock them out of out of an abundance of caution. But they were making the point in court that, well, he's been there for 3 months. He hasn't done anything wrong. There hasn't been any incidents. He's with responsible adults. He can't get away. He doesn't have a driving license or a car. So they were kind of just saying, well, let's just keep the status quo. So they did have this body of evidence, I guess, in which he hadn't done something wrong or offended. Of course, the prosecution is saying if he did something allegedly like that on the boat, he could lash out at any moment. So, you know, all all common decency and common sense means you lock him away from people. So there's no chance he can do that again. So, as I said, it was a complicated one because he'd already been there for some time and and the trial isn't that far off now.

[00:27:03]>> Yeah.

[00:27:04]>> It's September. So, >> it's interesting like you've covered a lot of court hearings. I've covered a lot of court hearings.

[00:27:10]>> It's pretty rare to go into something where you have a federal magistrate saying that it's almost an unprecedented situation or one that they don't even really know what to do or understand.

[00:27:23]I've ever been in a federal courtroom where typically they would like to state if it happened in the state but it but it happened in international waters like they're really stuck with this >> with this situation with the juvenile that you can tell they don't know what to do. I kind of felt at times it felt like brainstorming like the judge would sort of dust off a okay what about what about number 61295 statute and then they'd kind of look at it and be like I think what this means is >> when he's already in custody you have to take into account XYZ but if he's not already you know and they were kind of like s yeah it wasn't they weren't making it up as they were going along but they were sort of looking at the looking at the statutes and thinking, "Right, how do we actually deal with this?" And even when we first walked in there, the the judge was kind of like, "What exactly are you asking me for today?" The first 5 minutes was a bit surreal. He's like, "Are you asking me to actually make a decision today?"

[00:28:27]Or, "You're asking for a hearing at a later date for a decision. I've never really He said he said, "I don't normally reverse my own um my own rulings. I normally get them right the first time." Something like that, didn't he? He kind of laughed. And there was a weird atmosphere because then you've got a boy >> you got a boy accused of murder sat in the front row and everyone there is is thinking are you going to lock him up or not >> you know get to the substance get to the matter we know why we're here and they were they were talking about >> even the Star Wars Star Trek.

[00:29:01]>> Yeah. So the prosecutor kept saying because he was charged as a juvenile under the juvenile delinquency act and then it changed to him being charged as an adult, but she kept making the analogy of like Star Wars versus was it Star Trek?

[00:29:15]>> We've gone from Star Wars to Star Trek, >> but she said it like five or six times >> and it was just kind of like >> it was a very clunky analogy cuz you couldn't work out >> which was which and what the significance was. And this is also like right after you heard about like the brutality of what hap and then it's kind of like it was an interesting hearing like >> it was I thought it was going to take 15 minutes it took several hours >> at the end of the day I did not really but this has been secretive from the start >> and they have sealed everything the instant it's been entered into the record and yet the prosecutor today she just said right okay this is what happened this happened this happened he did this he did that and she almost like opened the entire case.

[00:29:58]>> I was very I mean this we're kind of joking about her Star Wars analogies, but I was impressed with her overall. I mean, she gave a very convincing.

[00:30:06]>> He even the judge said, "You've done really well. You presented a very >> compelling case, but I just want to see if you can find him somewhere closer to his his home."

[00:30:19]>> What? And just real quick, like the the family dynamic for people watching because this is her stepbrother >> and we know Anna's dad has said to you that he didn't want him to be free and has is obviously upset about the whole thing, but like what is the family dynamic?

[00:30:37]>> Well, you can imagine it's a very very awkward one. So, >> you've got a feel for that guy Christopher, you know, like talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

[00:30:47]So my understanding is >> Christopher is >> Christopher Keno is Anna's dad.

[00:30:51]>> He's Anna's dad. Okay.

[00:30:52]>> And so he lives with Sha Tel Hudson, Timothy's mother who hasn't been at court. He was brought to court today by his father Thomas Hudson. So and he's living with Thomas's brother. So Shantel, as far as I can see, is basically fully supporting Christopher.

[00:31:13]She has never come out solo and said anything derogatory about her son. She said plenty of warm tributes to Anna and how much she loved her and misses her and how awful it was. And she has said we are united as a couple. We need justice for Anna. So she's not come out and said Timothy is a monster. I mean that's her son.

[00:31:40]Uh so it's very very confusing. But they've released joint statements basically focusing on remembering and paying tribute to Anna and for Anna to deserve justice. And Christopher Anna's dad has not particularly kind of laid into Timothy in our conversations. It it there hasn't been too much hyperbole or he's this, he's that. I want to see him strung up or anything like that. He's been quite measured, I guess, because he knows how difficult and hurtful it is for his wife.

[00:32:14]>> So, you know, it's just an incredibly awkward, devastating situation for that guy.

[00:32:20]>> And the uncle who Timothy is living with. Um, do we know much about him?

[00:32:26]>> Um, I think he's a law-abiding guy. He's a he's an exserviceman.

[00:32:32]He lives in, um, quite a remote area.

[00:32:37]Uh he's married, happily married.

[00:32:40]>> Yeah.

[00:32:41]>> For all accounts, totally standup guy, and they said in court that, you know, he's a responsible adult and he's willing to do whatever he needs to do and supervise the boy and to co-sign a bond if >> if he goes out. So yeah, he seems like a a one of the more responsible people involved. You know, of all the of all the pe all the characters in this very sad drama, maybe, you know, that's one of the people doesn't have any kind of shadow over their reputation.

[00:33:13]>> Sometimes I was thinking about in court today like with some of the other cases I've tri covered like even Tyler Robinson with the Charlie Kirk like his family shows up you know despite them turning him in and Mhm.

[00:33:24]>> Um, you just think about like >> I was sitting there thinking like even though he >> is accused of such a terrible thing and the evidence is really bad. It's like >> it does seem like his family at least the uncle is still trying to do the right thing and it's like >> the dad has been 100% behind him the whole time, you know, protesting his innocence.

[00:33:44]>> Oh, protesting his innocence.

[00:33:45]>> Oh, yeah. I mean, he's >> Timothy has pleaded not guilty.

[00:33:49]>> Yeah. And we we got a very interesting flavor of a potential defense today. You notice because >> as >> when the no one wants to hear this, but it is a potential line of defense, isn't it? He said that he didn't dispute the idea that Anna and Timothy had had sex, >> but he said that there wasn't there wasn't evidence to say whether or not it was consensual or non-consentual.

[00:34:18]And he furthermore said that the prosecution are kind of presume presuming >> that the fluid entered Anna at the same time as the murder.

[00:34:33]>> Yeah. He said they they could be separate.

[00:34:35]>> They they could have had contact.

[00:34:38]>> No one is suggesting it happened after.

[00:34:40]>> Yeah.

[00:34:41]>> But I guess he was hinting at that there could have been a sexual encounter before this all happened.

[00:34:47]>> Yeah. It didn't the the they said that he said that it was their case was based on gaps and presumptions, didn't he? And he said that he could see >> theories. He so he questioned whether there's any proof to say that the sexual encounter immediately was involved in the murder and that it was non-consensual.

[00:35:08]>> It'll be interesting if it actually goes to trial. I mean, you're right. That was a little glimpse into what the defense may be.

[00:35:13]>> Yeah.

[00:35:13]>> Um, anything else that stood out to you before I let you go? Um the only other thing was quite interesting was they said today um if he enters a plea they could get 24 to 34 years, didn't they?

[00:35:28]>> Yeah.

[00:35:29]>> Um and obviously life if he was found guilty, but with that with credit for pleading it would go down to 24 to 34.

[00:35:39]You're probably better at math than me.

[00:35:40]He's 16. 420 plus >> potentially >> he get out of 40 to 50.

[00:35:46]>> Yeah.

[00:35:47]>> So quite a lot of life left if he did decide to >> Yeah.

[00:35:50]>> plea plead.

[00:35:52]>> Well, we'll see what happens next. I guess that I I don't know if there'll be another will there be another hearing when the judge gets this report back from the marshals about the juvenile jails or will he just make a decision?

[00:36:04]>> He he said he was putting the motion in obeyance, wasn't he? which means basically like suspending it for other things to be decided. So, >> uh, good question. We just have to watch Pacer the court admin system and see if there's another hearing. But, yeah, it strikes me that he could just order the boy to surrender and we'll just f find out about it once it's already happened.

[00:36:28]Particularly if it's up in Hernando County.

[00:36:31]>> Yeah.

[00:36:32]>> So, we could just find out one day he's in a juvenile detention.

[00:36:35]>> Well, I'll stay on it. Ben will stay on it with the Daily Mail. He's been all over it. And uh thank you guys for watching. I'll talk to you guys later.