When Flat Earthers Faced the Midnight Sun

Added: 2026-05-23

[00:00:00]seeing something and experiencing something that goes against your worldview and that goes against something that is like near and dear to your heart. I would say flat earth for most flatearthers is inextricably tied to their identity. I think that's dangerous by the way, but I think it's a reality based on how I watch them talk and how they interact with others and how much they talk about it and think about it. And so when you're faced with this, that's not easy to to to see and experience.

[00:00:34][music] Greetings to the brightest audience in the country. This is Real Science Radio.

[00:00:47]I'm Fred Williams and today Doug is on assignment and we have a special guest, Will Duffy, the organizer behind the final experiment. And this is the Antarctica expedition that brought flat earth and globe Earth advocates together to test one simple question. Can the 24-hour Antarctic sun actually be observed? So, I want to welcome you, Will. I'm real excited to hear about what's going on with this final experiment.

[00:01:17]>> Yeah, Fred, thanks so much for having me. Uh, I'm also looking forward to talking about this, talking a little bit about flat earth for people who are not familiar and most importantly talking about our trip to Antarctica, which was simply unbelievable.

[00:01:31]>> Yeah. And you know, I was talking to Danny Faulner a couple of weeks ago. He was in town and uh I mentioned, you know, I thanked him for being uh part of that. you know, you I think you had him on one of your shows on YouTube and he mentioned, "Hey, this thing that thing's actually really gone well." And you know, the aftermath is incredible. And I'm like, "Oh, wow. I got to have uh we got to have Will Duffy on Real Science Radio to tell us about all this uh you know, what's been going on cuz I kind of lost track after, you know, the final experiment." and he had mentioned that, you know, you've got a documentary coming up and just again the aftermath with the people and how they reacted, you know, the what's happened to the flat earth movement. So, Will, can you first start off explaining to the audience because not everybody has heard about this? We'll have some new listeners and, you know, e either through radio or on our YouTube channel.

[00:02:23]Can you explain why would you go to Antarctica? What's the point of Antarctica and the flat earth movement?

[00:02:29]>> Yeah. So, before I do that, I need [clears throat] to warn you. You will have flat-earthers show up in the comments of this video. And I'm going to make a prediction, which is that they [clears throat] will not address the points that I'm going to bring up. And the reason why is because they don't have answers for them. So, they'll talk about other things. And so, that's important for your audience to know. So, let me just give a little backstory, which is I never knew flat earth was a what I would call a legitimate movement.

[00:03:02]Meaning, I thought [clears throat] it was this kind of fringe thing that was more of a joke that people would, you know, talk about just in passing or in fun. I figured the flat earth society was just a fake society set up to make fun of the flat earth idea. But then it turns out I had a friend who was a real flatearther and she started posting about it on Facebook and that's how I got into this whole thing. And I was shocked that there's real flat-earthers. And the more I spoke with my friend, the more I spoke with her, and she started sending me links to other people and articles and videos, the more I realized there's [clears throat] actually quite a few flat-earthers out there that actually believe the earth is flat. So, >> and what was alarming to you was she was a Christian, right? That's that >> Yes.

[00:03:58]>> Yeah.

[00:03:59]>> Def definitely. And and I started finding that uh I I would call most of the leaders were not Christians, but most of the flat-earthers themselves were Christians. And when you find out that you have a friend or an acquaintance or someone you know that you interact with on occasion, whether it's in person or on social media, when you find out that they're actually a flatearther, that's actually a pivotal point in your life and in your relationship because you have to decide what you're going to do. Most people probably will just move on and disregard it. I decided not to do that. So, I like to argue. I like a good old-fashioned debate. I like to try to convince people that I'm right about something and they're wrong about something. And so, I decided I was going to try to convince her that she was wrong about flat earth. And I figured it would be super easy. Turns out it's not easy. Uh, I actually had to relearn the globe. I had to relearn things that I'm sure I learned in grade school, maybe high school, that I had forgotten. And so, it's been an incredible journey for me. I've learned a ton. And in that process, I discovered that uh Antarctica is something that comes up a lot in the flat earth world and in this debate between flat earth and globe. And there's a reason why, and this is important. The flat earth model puts the north pole where the globe has the north pole. But then when you get to the equator, which doesn't make any sense on a flat earth, by the way, uh the equator on the globe is the widest part of the globe, taking into consideration the ro the rotation of the earth. So they steal that from us and put it on their maps. But as you head south of the equator on their map, instead of things getting smaller and smaller and closer together in proximity like they do on the globe, eventually meeting at a south pole, they get bigger and bigger and wider and wider, and you end up with an ice ring around the entire Earth. So all of the oceans are held in by this ice ring on the flat Earth map. All of the continents are on there. And so Antarctica can't be any different on a globe than it is on a flat Earth. And that's when I had my light bulb epiphany moment, which is if I'm going to solve this debate, if I'm going to prove to flatearthers internationally that they're wrong, uh it's going to have to involve Antarctica. And that ended up meaning we were going to have to go there.

[00:06:52]>> Yeah. And so just to be clear, the reason you uh picked Antarctica, why why this makes a lot of sense is because if you believe in the flat earth, you think you have a sunrise and a sunset pretty much anywhere you're at, right? But it turns out Antarctica has periods during the year where you have a 24-hour sun, and they deny that that happens.

[00:07:14]>> Yes. So, this [clears throat] is a really cool uh phenomenon in the world, which is something known as the 24-hour sun or the midnight sun. And the reason they call it the midnight sun is because there are places on Earth where the sun is still up at midnight, meaning it never sets during the day, hence the name 24-hour sun. Now, people are mostly familiar with this in the northern hemisphere. And so we have something called the Arctic Circle and we have something called the Antarctic Circle.

[00:07:46]Again, these are things that only exist on the globe that the flatearthers steal and put on their map which make no sense on their map. So the Arctic Circle that that's the one that most people are familiar with. And the reason why is because a vast majority of the population on Earth lives in the northern hemisphere. I think it's 90% of the world's population lives north of the equator. So, the [clears throat] Arctic Circle represents when you can go far enough north in the northern hemisphere and have uh this 24-hour sun at certain times of the year. And so based upon the axial tilt of the earth, so the the earth is tilted at about 23 degrees on its axis >> means that when the northern hemisphere is tilted toward the sun, you get days where the sun never sets because of that tilt. It's something super easy to demonstrate in like a dark closet with just uh a plastic globe and a flashlight, but it's a little bit hard to visualize. But if you shine a flashlight on a tilted globe in a dark closet, it's a actually a really good homeschool experiment that I've done with my kids. Half the globe is going to light up. Now you spin it and when the Earth is tilted toward the the the light, the flashlight, and you spin it, there's a top part that's always lit up.

[00:09:16]It never gets dark, even when it's away from the sun because of the tilt. The tilt brings that further part of the Earth uh in line with that light. And so that's what creates the Arctic Circle and that's what creates the 24-hour sun.

[00:09:32]Now the opposite happens in the southern summer which is December. Most of us in the northern hemisphere think of June, July and August as as summer. But in the southern summer now the the the southern hemisphere is what's tilted towards the sun and angled toward the sun. And they have the exact same 24-hour sun in Antarctica. Now, on the flat Earth map, that's impossible because they make Antarctica so big and the sun has to travel and not only light up Antarctica each day, but light up every single continent. Because unless you're in the Arctic Circle or the Antarctic Circle at the right time of year, everybody every day has a sunrise and a sunset. They have a period of day and they have a period of darkness. And so this 24-hour sun in Antarctica ended up being the key thing that we used with the final experiment to show once and for all that flat Earth is completely wrong because they can't have that on their model.

[00:10:39]They denied that it existed. There was only a couple videos of it because getting to Antarctica is difficult and expensive and those videos unfortunately were edited. Now that's fine. Uh, you're going to edit this video before you put it on YouTube. I edit videos of my children's birthday parties before I pass them around. Like, everything in the world gets edited. Editing is not bad. But they turned that into their conspiracy and said, "Oh, it's being edited because they can't actually film the real thing." So, we went down to Antarctica to film the 24-hour sun unedited. And we took four flatearthers with us so that they could see with their own eyes the sun will never set while we're there.

[00:11:27]>> Right. Yeah. So both sides beforehand agreed that uh this midnight sun would be a meaningful test, right? I mean that they they they were they bought on to that. So they agreed that this falsifies the flat earth if there's this uh 24-hour sun.

[00:11:44]>> Yeah, they definitely did.

[00:11:46][clears throat] We have them on record so many times stating this. They they would even go as far before I came on the scene and say, "If you want to prove the Earth's a globe, then go prove that there's a 24-hour sun in Antarctica."

[00:12:00]So, I will say this, which is that the closer we got to our trip, so the trip happened in December of 2024, and I started kind of dripping this out to the public in early 2024. So, it was kind of like a year-long thing. And if you want to follow any of that or kind of go relive it if you missed it all, it's just on our YouTube channel, the final experiment. As we got closer and closer, the flat earth side started seeing the confidence on the globe side.

[00:12:31]We were pumped. We were excited. people started crowdfunding on the globe side to go with us, which was so cool because they were just certain that we live on a globe and there's going to be a 24-hour sun. And so our confidence started to give them pause and make them a bit nervous. And so they all of a sudden weren't as excited about going on this trip. And when that happened, something really cool happened. people started contacting me and offering and offering to uh pay for flat-earthers to go with us. So, they were going to fund out of pocket.

[00:13:13]This is very expensive for flat-earthers to go because they were so confident we were right. They wanted more flat-earthers to see the 24-hour sun.

[00:13:21]And here's the crazy thing. Almost all of the flatearthers turned down a free trip to Antarctica.

[00:13:27]>> Yep. So, >> what does that tell you?

[00:13:29]>> Yeah, it tells you a lot. And you know, remember uh Bob and I years ago we we had that crowd I don't I don't know if it was crowdfunding send a flat earther into space. So, but there's a reason I think that you had told us before when we've had you on before that there's a reason why that one wasn't as first of all it' be hard to do. You know that that's even more expensive. I think it was Virgin Galactic or one of those things. You'd have to get like a $100,000 ticket and even then you might not convince a flatearther if he's even up in space for some reason. And I can't remember what your logic was behind that, but if you can refresh my memory, why that really wasn't as good as this whole Antarctic thing. And maybe it's just because of the cost.

[00:14:09]>> Yeah, there there's a lot of issues. One is the cost. [clears throat] Two is um if I recall, the one that you guys advertised never went to space.

[00:14:20]>> No, I Yeah, I think we got to 12,000. I mean, we were >> No, what I'm saying is I think the company >> Oh. that you were under utilized never went to space.

[00:14:29]>> Oh yeah. Trust me, I know that cuz my son tried to talk me into that stock and uh >> that's Oh yeah.

[00:14:36]>> He actually did really well. He he rode that thing from 20 to 50. I'm like, "Dude, it's at resistance." And now you're you're probably relating to this.

[00:14:42]I know you know a lot about finances.

[00:14:44]And I'm like, "Dude, it's you got to get out. I'm going to ride this to the end."

[00:14:47]He only put in like 2,000 bucks. Well, his 2,000 bucks right now is like a hundred bucks. So that's a side story.

[00:14:53][laughter] >> Yeah, that's so tough. But anyway, so so that actually ends up backfiring.

[00:14:58]So it's it's actually kind of good you probably didn't raise the funds cuz had you done it, it wouldn't go and then the flatearthers would say, "See, you can't go."

[00:15:06]>> Yeah. Conspiracy. Uh exactly.

[00:15:08]>> The the the other issue is is it's a single flat-earther, right? So flatearthers will eat their own. They will throw a flat-earther under the bus.

[00:15:19]no matter how good of friends they are, no matter how long their relationship has been, they will they will do that to protect the cause at all costs. And so having just one go this the other thing is is that they [clears throat] will say anything they can they they'll make up anything to try to answer something that they can't answer. And so I wouldn't be surprised if in a situation like that where they would say that the Earth looks curved because either the window in the space shuttle is curved or it was an LED screen and they weren't actually looking out the window and if they don't go outside the spacecraft and do a spacew walk which is incredibly difficult uh then that doesn't prove it.

[00:16:04]And so it just wouldn't be as ideal.

[00:16:07]This I hear Neil deGrasse Tyson all the time joke about let's send a flat earther to space. The reality is I don't think it would have the impact that the final experiment had in going to Antarctica because again we were able to take multiple because it's much lower cost than going to space and they were able to see it with their own eyes. There's no windows. There's no purported LED screens and all of that.

[00:16:32]>> Okay. So, you know, I want to get to the part where a couple of things. First of all, the reaction to the flatearthers once they saw the, you know, they saw a 24-hour sun. I'm I'm going to break the news to everybody on Real Science Radio.

[00:16:45]Spoiler alert, >> the globe is it is a globe. We're not on a flat Earth. So, I I can't wait to get to hear your take on their reactions.

[00:16:53]Um, I also want to mention there's there's a listener for Real Science Radio that has written in. Actually, we've had a couple over the last couple years. that still kind of cling that there's they seem to be maybe still floating around the flat earth idea. But before we get to that, we do have to do our interesting fact of the week. I know Doug isn't here, so Will, I'm going to have to challenge you. Um, and I might make an exception since you're a friend of mine. I'm going to buzz you if you don't get it right. Okay.

[00:17:21]>> I usually don't do that to a guest.

[00:17:22][laughter] >> That's fine.

[00:17:24]>> Okay. So, here is the interesting fact of the week. And by the way, this is sponsored by Jim in Connecticut, and we'd like to thank him for sponsoring his second show. Okay, so here we go.

[00:17:39]Here's the interesting fact of the week.

[00:17:42]What Antarctic creature is only a few millimeters long, has no wings, survives freezing and dehydration, spends most of its life as a larvae, [music] and is considered the largest purely land dwelling animal native to Antarctica.

[00:17:58]Wow. I'm a I I'm a bit embarrassed that I have no idea. I should I should know this. One of the things that stood out to me because we went pretty far south.

[00:18:09]We went to 80° south. We took a plane.

[00:18:12]Most people that go to Antarctica take boats and just go to the coast. We took a plane and there's no concrete in Antarctica. So, we landed on the ice and that was fun. But anyway, I I noticed the the the lack of life, the lack of >> fauna, the lack of flora, and I just don't know the answer.

[00:18:34]>> It's actually an insect, [music] but and you know, it's it's called Well, I'm going to I have to do this. Well, I can't I can't help myself. [laughter] >> I I failed. I failed. I deserve it. It's the Antarctic MIJ and it's a species of flightless smidge endemic to the continent of Antarctica. It has a length of 2 to 6 millime. This thing's tiny. It is the largest purely terrestrial animal native to the continent. It also has the smallest known insect genome, at least as of 2014, with only 99 million base pairs.

[00:19:09]>> Wow.

[00:19:10]>> Only 99 million. I mean, that's still a lot of base pair. this thing.

[00:19:13]>> That's the smallest >> complicated creature, but yeah.

[00:19:16]>> Wow. Thank you for sharing that. That is really cool. I I I am glad I know that now.

[00:19:20]>> The Antarctic MIJ.

[00:19:22]>> Okay. So, back to the uh Antarctic experiment, the final experiment. Uh can you walk us through I know there's a lot of setup and itinerary and I think you've covered that on your other shows.

[00:19:35]I want to get right to the reaction of the flatearthers who were with you. And you said there was four of them. And so can you tell us about that?

[00:19:45]>> Yeah. Let me give a little backstory too, which is important. We had to we had to go to the southern tip of South America first. So you you get you go to as you pretty much go to as far south as you can get to kind of, you know, start from there and make sure you have all the right equipment, all the right gear, and then you wait for the weather to cooperate and then you go to Antarctica.

[00:20:08]So you're either talking the southern tip of Africa, the southern tip of South America, or the southern part of New Zealand. Those are really the three closest places to Antarctica. So for our trip, we went to the southern tip of South America. But we went to Chile and um we went to [clears throat] a town called Punta Arenus which if you look you are as far south as you can be in the entire all the land masses in the world other than Antarctica is right there. So, we started there and you go there four days in advance. And the reason you go four days in advance is because if if you if you end up having a delayed flight getting there, they need to they need to make sure you don't miss your trip to Antarctica. Uh once you get there, if they find out you don't have everything that you need to survive and live in Antarctica with the extreme weather and the extremely cold temperatures, you have to have time to go get those things or have them shipped to you. So, we spent a few days in the southern tip of South America. And that was fascinating to the flat-earthers right then. And here's why. In their model, uh, the sun should have risen in the northeast and set in the northwest.

[00:21:30]And we knew it was not, that was not going to happen. It was always going to be to the south. And so we have on video them uh looking at the sun and being like, "This doesn't really make a lot of sense. It appears to be staying south."

[00:21:45]So, I actually think whether they want to admit this or not, they don't have to. I think they started to have seeds of doubt before we even got there just uh observing what the sun was doing cuz it was doing what the globe model states. When we got to Antarctica, we got there at probably 4:00, I think around 400 p.m. Now, time [clears throat] zones in Antarctica are a little weird, especially as you get to the South Pole. So, we used a company called Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions, AL. They're headquartered in South America. So, for their base, which is Union Glacier in Antarctica, they use the time zone of Chile, which just makes the most sense because that's where their workers are for for communicating. So, we landed at about 4 and the sun is out. It was a perfect time for us to land. the sun is out and it's like, okay, we're going to know a lot here in the next eight hours. In the next eight hours, we're pretty much going to know everything because remember, if the sun is up at midnight, then that proves we are on a globe. It's the midnight sun.

[00:22:53]>> So, [clears throat] we had to get orientated. We had to get a tour of where everything is, how to go to the bathroom, where to eat, where to sleep, where to put your stuff, because they protect Antarctica, and I'm glad they do. They protect it because it's really the last place on Earth that has not been really messed up by man.

[00:23:16]>> And so they actually don't just allow you to just go to the bathroom and leave it. So they actually fly your waist out when you leave. So that's why these trips are so expensive. There's a lot that goes into it.

[00:23:29]>> So how long is this process that of getting you, you know, set up this?

[00:23:33]>> A couple hours.

[00:23:34]>> Couple hours. Okay.

[00:23:35]>> Couple hours. Yeah. So after that, all I wanted to do was to start filming the sun. We brought 360° cameras so that they could see all 360° around us. No funny business, no green screens, no studios, no sets. And all I wanted to do was to set up the cameras. Well, their base camp, Union Glacier, is right next to a mountain, a big mountain called Mount Rossman. And the purpose of that is to help with the extreme winds, which can cause extreme cold. And so they were worried that the sun might go behind that mountain. And so they were like, "Will, if you want to do this right, we have to take you and and set up your own camp outside of our area." So I was like, "Can we go right now?" And they were like, "No, you can't. You have to have dinner first." And I was like, "Please, can we skip dinner?" And they said, "No." They said, "There's no hospitals in Antarctica. We have to keep you as healthy as can be." In the past, um, doctors that would go to Antarctica would have to have their appendix removed before they could go because no one could remove their appendix if it burst, but they could remove someone else's appendix if it burst. So they there's a lot you have to think about, right? So he was so so they told me they're like, "Will before you can set up your cameras, you have to have dinner." And I was like, "Great. Feed us and let's go." So [clears throat] we didn't make it out to set up our cameras until 900 p.m. But guess what? The sun is still up at 9:00 p.m., >> right?

[00:25:12]>> Yeah.

[00:25:12]>> So that's cool. So we [clears throat] set up our cameras. We got everything rolling. There was almost a dozen different cameras because everybody brought their own setup. There were equatorial mounts. There were 360 degree cameras. They uh we tried to live stream the 24-hour sun, which was very difficult. It's tough to do a 24-hour live stream, especially in Antarctica.

[00:25:33]Uh we were trying to monitor our batteries. There was there was a guy who had a solar filter on his camera, so he was looking at the sunspots for 24 hours. And so we set up our cameras and I was like, you know what? Let we need to go live at midnight. We need to do a we need to do a midnight live stream.

[00:25:51]The whole world will be watching and show people what is happening. Did did the sun set or is it still in the sky?

[00:25:59]And so we did a midnight live stream. We had over 4,000 people watching live, which was our biggest live stream ever by far. So I'm really proud of that. And that live stream now has well over a 100,000 views. And so the sun never set obviously, which we knew. Now we we had a really gracious attitude toward the flat-earthers. We weren't making fun of them. We weren't rubbing it in their faces or anything like that. The reality was we knew what was going to happen.

[00:26:32]And so we were able to know they're going to struggle with this. And so we did the live stream and we just let them say whatever they wanted to say and the [clears throat] the one one of the flatearthers, Jiren Campanella, he just went up to the to the camera and and said, "Sometimes you're wrong in life."

[00:26:53]>> All right, guys. Uh sometimes you are wrong in life. And I thought that there was no 24-hour sun. In fact, I was pretty sure of it. But uh I respect Will Duffy for being a stand-up guy. at least in the way that he kept saying it was true. I kept saying it wasn't. He said, "Do you want to go? I'll take you and brought me here." And it's uh a fact.

[00:27:14]The sun uh does circle you in the south.

[00:27:18]>> And he's like, I thought for sure that there was no 24-hour sun, but there is.

[00:27:23]I I'm looking at it right now with my own eyes. It's not setting. It's doing exactly what they said. And you got to do with with that what you want to do with it. But it is real.

[00:27:33]>> Wow. So that was the best admission.

[00:27:36]Another flatearther, Austin Wit, came up and said, you know, it's it's doing exactly what they said it it would do, and so we have to kind of figure out what to do with this. Maybe we need a new model or something.

[00:27:49]>> Yeah. So, I mean, I was one of the people that said I definitely didn't think that there was a 24-hour sun. We obviously haven't actually seen the sun for 24 hours, but it is doing what they said it would do. Uh, another flatearther, Lee Beth, got got up there and talked about, you know, God's creation, which I love. She's a a Christian.

[00:28:09]>> If there was ever any doubt, not that I ever have, but if there was any doubt about a creator, I mean, this this would put it to rest. There's no way that we're not in a created place. I don't care what anybody says, >> but they all just kind of saw it. and and seeing something and experiencing something that goes against your worldview and that goes against something that is like near and dear to your heart. I would say flat earth for most flatearthers is inextricably tied to their identity. I think that's dangerous by the way, but I think it's a reality based on how I watch them talk and how they interact with others and how much they talk about it and think about it. Mhm.

[00:28:49]>> And so when you're faced with this, that's not easy to to to see and experience.

[00:28:54]>> Yeah.

[00:28:54]>> And so I'll tell you after that live stream, um [clears throat] pretty much all of us went to bed. Uh we had been up for a very long time and uh I can imagine wanting to just escape if I was them for a little bit and just like not have to think about this for a while and not have to process it. And so [clears throat] the next day we left all of the cameras on. We we did rounds through the through the night. It was light, but we needed to make sure we kept changing the batteries because we didn't want to have a cut in our footage because they'd say, "Oh, that's fake."

[00:29:33]So, we actually took 24 hours straight HD video, not a time lapse, of the 24-hour sun using a 360° camera. And here's the cool thing. It was the first time that was ever done in history.

[00:29:49]>> That's awesome.

[00:29:50]>> So, the only videos of the 24-hour sun ever in Antarctica were time-lapses. And and what a time-lapse is is is it takes a picture every few seconds, right? A video is 60 pictures per second. A time-lapse is only one picture every few seconds. So, it's wildly different. And the reason they had only done time-lapses was because it takes up way less hard drive space and it takes up way less battery. So we were we we were bringing terabytes of hard drive space, multiple terabytes and multiple backup batteries. So we were just constantly changing the batteries. We did a full 24-hour video which is on YouTube. You can see it. It's beautiful. It's in 4K.

[00:30:37]And then after the 24 hours was done, we packed up and then went back to the main camp, Union Glacier Camp, next to the mountain there. And at that [clears throat] point, it's like what we set out to accomplish was done. Uh we set out to show them, hey, you're wrong.

[00:30:55]Your map is wrong. Your model is wrong.

[00:30:58]What you said is wrong. Here's all the proof you need. We we're not asking you to take our word for it. We brought your people. We brought your flatearthers, four of them. They'll all tell you it's real. We also now have highdefinition video, unedited, 360°. Here's everything that you could ever want. So, this is finished and that's where things were while we were there.

[00:31:24]>> So, what's the aftermath now that Okay, so now you're back home and months have gone by. Uh where's what's the state of the flat earth movement? like where what's the thought process of Jiren and Austin and I didn't recognize the the lady you mentioned >> what was her name >> and then there one and just the flat earth movement in general there's you know a lot of people in the flat earth earth movement not just those four that are fairly prominent >> lethosta was brought on and she did not know Jiren and Austin and then the fourth was Jonathan Morandi who's a Hollywood filmmaker and he didn't know any of the other three. That's a good thing, by the way, because if they were all friends, the flatearthers would put them all together and say, "Oh, they're all in on it together because they're friends." So, having these flat-earthers that didn't know each other was super important.

[00:32:19]Now, Fred, I wish I could say the aftermath started when we got home, but it started when we were still in Antarctica.

[00:32:27]So the next day um [clears throat] there was a brand new conspiracy from the flat earth movement that we were filming in front of a green screen. [laughter] Now let me tell you the genesis of this conspiracy.

[00:32:44]I uh leading up to this trip, I used a green screen for my videos talking about the trip. And the reason I used a green screen is because I didn't have a good background in my house that I could utilize and my wife didn't want me to have like a full-on studio like you have set up.

[00:33:03]>> Well, a lot of people like to use a green screen and they're great because you can put any background you want, you know, as long as you don't move around a lot, you know, then people can see that, you know. Yeah.

[00:33:12]>> Nothing wrong.

[00:33:12]>> Totally. So, so I I bought a green screen that was portable and so my wife was clear. You set this up for your videos. you take it down after your videos so that our house is not taken over by the final experiment. So, I used a green screen and there was no secret of of me using a green screen. Everybody knew I used one. Well, [clears throat] in StreamYard, which is what I use to do live streams.

[00:33:37]It's very popular with YouTubers.

[00:33:39]>> Uh you you have to tell StreamYard if you're using a green screen or not. It's called a chroma key. And if you are, it will replace that color green that you tell it with whatever image you want. So my chroma key was left on because every every live stream live stream I had done for a year I had used it and now I'm traveling to Antarctica and I left it on. Well, by chance and it ended up being a good thing. One flatearther, Jonathan Morandi, had a green patch right here on his jacket and it was almost the color of my chroma key. So, it took his patch out, which is what uh that that chroma key does, and it put the my picture that I used as my background on his chest. Now, now fortunately and unfortunately, most flat earthers are not familiar with how green screens work. So they immediately cried foul. They immediately said, "Oh, that's proof they're using a green screen green screen." In reality, it was proof that we weren't using a green screen. And so larger flatearthers like Dave Weiss, Flat Earth Dave, he came to our defense and he's like, "Guys, no, I have a green screen." So he showed them he he he p he put his green screen up, then he put a green shirt on his chest, then he pulled it then he pulled it down. And you can see anything green now changes to his picture. So >> that guy had that green patch that was Yeah.

[00:35:10]>> Yeah. It was great. And so we ended up having to do another live stream where I turned it off. We had Jonathan go back in front of the camera, show the green patch. And it's funny because there they were claiming there was a a green screen behind me. So I actually took my drone and flew it behind me so that they could see there is no screen behind me. You can't fly a drone through a screen. So the aftermath started while we were there and then it just got worse. Um I don't even know where to start.

[00:35:44][clears throat] So they they then started trying to say that we had filmed that uh in the north uh at a different time of year. And so then we had to interact with their comments to show that we were live in Antarctica. We had to say sports scores that were happening live while we were there. Uh we tried to pick up a newspaper. I don't remember if anybody did that had the date on it so we could show that we were live. Um [clears throat] uh one guy, it's unbelievable that what they'll come up with. One guy uh said that we were actually in Las Vegas. Okay. Now, before you laugh, because it's hilarious because we're in Antarctica. There's no two opposite places than Las Vegas, dry desert heat and Antarctica. But the reason uh before you laugh, this ended up becoming the number one belief by flatearthers as to the truth. So, in Las Vegas, >> yes, in Las Vegas, there is something betting on games because you were given scores of games. Okay. [laughter] >> In in Las Vegas, there's something called the Sphere.

[00:36:58]>> Yeah. Yep.

[00:36:59]>> And it's brand new. It's a multibillion dollar facility, and it looks really cool. I've not been there, but apparently it's cool for shows and concerts and all kinds of stuff, maybe even movies. So he postulated online that we were actually in Vegas and that's why we could take 360°ree video is because the sphere has LEDs 360° around you. So it's crazy. But uh one [clears throat] easy way to refute that is I used my drone again and I flew my drone almost a mile high into the sky.

[00:37:39]Now, I got special permission to do that. So, according to my research, can't prove it. I'm the only person that's ever flown a a drone that high in Antarctica.

[00:37:49]>> Yeah.

[00:37:50]>> Uh and I'm [clears throat] pretty sure go that high.

[00:37:52]>> Yeah. I'm pretty sure the sphere in Las Vegas isn't a mile high.

[00:37:56]>> Exactly. Exactly. It's probably 400 feet or something. So, we're we're talking 5,000 ft that I flew my drone and and I and I filmed it. that that drone footage, which is stunning, by the way, is also on our YouTube channel. But I reached out to DJI and said, "Hey, I'm in Antarctica. I'd like to get special permission to fly my drone uh higher than you normally allow it, cuz all of these drones are kind of on lockdown."

[00:38:23]And they gave me permission. So, I went to the maximum you can do with my little tiny drone that's 249 g. And I filmed a mile high, 360°. So cool. Uh, now things get worse. So now now we all come back home and that's when things just get wild. So a lot of people don't know what to do at this point because the the conspiracies that are getting thrown out are easily debunked by us. And so they just start to say that we didn't go that we did not go to Antarctica. Now, this is why we brought flatearthers right here is so that the flat if if we didn't go to Antarctica, okay? Those flatearthers could become the biggest flat-earthers in history by exposing us as cons, frauds, scammers, liars, cheaters, right? They could be like, "Hey, I took this video with my cell phone. We were actually here. We were actually in a studio. They they drugged us. They put uh stuff on the window so we couldn't look out the window on the flight and they took us somewhere else.

[00:39:32]Like they would be the biggest flat-earthers in history. They would blow the lid off of the biggest conspiracy ever. And all these flatearthers simply had to be like, "Guys, you sound like idiots. We just went to Antarctica. We have all the proof. We have We can show you our video on the flight. We can show you we were in South America. We can show you we were in Antarctica. We were wearing GPS units. We have everything you could ever want. Okay. And they turned on the flatearthers and it was so cool because it was the flat-earthers defending our trip.

[00:40:05]>> Yeah. I mean, and Jiren and Austin, they were they were pretty big names. I know.

[00:40:10]At least with YouTube YouTube views and subscribers.

[00:40:13]Huge. I mean, it's not like you brought a couple of uh smaller time.

[00:40:18]>> Yeah. They were both top five flat earthers in the world.

[00:40:21]>> Yep.

[00:40:22]>> Definitely. Definitely. So now they're defending us. But you know what's really cool, Fred? And I did not I did not see this coming. And I don't think I ever would have. This was the best part. You ready? They started to see how flatearthers think.

[00:40:39]>> Oh wow.

[00:40:40]>> They started to see and recognize, wait a minute, is this who I am as a person?

[00:40:47]Because that's exactly what they do.

[00:40:49]anything that goes against what they believe, they just immediately oppose it. They immediately say it can't be true. They immediately say it's a lie and they immediately come up with any crazy wild idea as to what actually happened versus what really did and they started to see themselves in their followers.

[00:41:11]>> Oh wow. That's >> massive.

[00:41:14]>> That massive. So that I think was the real eyeopener for them was like wait a minute and now multiple flatearthers who have left flat earth because of the final experiment have contacted me and they were like will thank you thank you thank you I now see clearly that I was in a cult.

[00:41:37]>> Yeah.

[00:41:37]>> And I couldn't see it until this. I couldn't see it. But now I see it. Now it's clear. And you've helped me get out of the cult. So, thank you.

[00:41:46]>> Yeah. And thank goodness for for their humility. You know, it's it's hard to ever admit that you're wrong about something.

[00:41:52]>> It really is. It really is. And it's hard to get out of a cult.

[00:41:55]>> Yeah.

[00:41:55]>> It's so hard, right? You people just go right back to it. And so, this this did more good than people could have ever imagined. And I want to give the credit and the glory to God here.

[00:42:09]>> Absolutely.

[00:42:10]>> I I now I now look in hindsight. I retrospectively I now look back and I'm like how did I not see it? I truly believe God was working from the very beginning in this whole thing. There were so many things that I thought were just going to derail us and prevent this from working. And every single time at the 11th hour it ended up working out.

[00:42:34]And when I finally got some sense knocked into me, this is the coolest story. When we landed in Antarctica at about 4:00, they pulled me off of the vehicle. So, we landed and then they brought they brought these like special Antarctica vehicles.

[00:42:52]>> When you first got there?

[00:42:53]>> Yes.

[00:42:53]>> Okay.

[00:42:54]>> They [clears throat] they took us from that vehicle and drove us to the camp.

[00:42:57]Well, as soon as we got to the camp, as soon as I stepped off the vehicle, someone came and pulled me away from the group. We had a group of nine. Um I they pulled me away and they went and took me to the owner of Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions to have like a private meeting with him to just kind of figure out what we were going to do. First thing he said to me is he said, "Will," he's like, "Do you have someone working with you?" And he looked up to the sky and I'm like, "What do you mean?" And he said, "We've had the worst weather here for months straight." He said, "As soon as you landed, we've got blue skies."

[00:43:33]Wow.

[00:43:34]>> We had clear blue skies, almost not a single cloud. I'm kidding. I kid you not. Almost not a single cloud. And that's when it hit me. I'm like, "Oh my word. Of course, God is working here."

[00:43:45]And I was worried about the weather.

[00:43:47]>> I That was the one thing I felt like I couldn't control was the weather. And I And I said, "If we're there for 4 days and it's just clouds for 4 days and you can't see the sun, they're going to cry victory. They're going to say, you did not prove there's a 24-hour sun." And I didn't know the weather was bad for months go going there. I wasn't there.

[00:44:07]But having the owner tell me, will this is weird. As soon as you land, the clouds are gone. And by the way, >> it stayed blue. No clouds for a full 24 hours so we could film. And right after that, the weather got horrible again.

[00:44:23]The clouds came back. The weather got so bad they said, "You guys have to leave early or you're going to be stuck here till after Christmas."

[00:44:30]>> Oh, wow. So, we ended up having to leave early because the weather was so bad.

[00:44:34]So, everything this is like parting of the Red Sea stuff here. Everything's gone for our 24 hours to film the sun to show the flatearthers. So, all credit and glory to God. It was an amazing experience and I am just so thankful for all the people that are now freed from this because it is a lie. It's not true.

[00:44:55]It's a waste of life and it does hurt our witness and our testimony. If we're going to go to people and say, "Hey, the earth is actually flat. Oh, by the way, I'm a Christian. By the way, I believe in the Bible. By the way, the Bible says the earth is flat." There's no worse way to hurt your testimony. No one's ever going to take you seriously. No one's ever going to want to listen to you on Christianity if you fall for flat earth.

[00:45:20]And no one's ever going to want to read the Bible if they come into it knowing that it teaches a flat earth. So, I think this was a kingdom journey and a and a kingdom expedition and I think it absolutely helped so much and I'm just so thankful for all of that.

[00:45:34]>> Yeah. And man, tons of thanks to you, Will, for putting this all together and I agree, you know, God had a huge huge fingerprints in this. Um, and now you've got a documentary you're putting together on all of this, right?

[00:45:46]>> Yes. This is really exciting. So Jonathan Miranda, who I mentioned, the flatearther, who's a Hollywood filmmaker, he's making the documentary.

[00:45:55]Now, this is important. That's the only way that they would have ever allowed this. There have been documentaries on flat earth in the past that are what I would call hit pieces where they go in and say, "Hey, we want to promote flat earth and we want to spread the word."

[00:46:13]and they act like they're trying to promote flat earth, but they're really not. They're really on the globe side and they're really just trying to mock them. And so they don't trust uh they don't trust filmmakers anymore. So having a flatearther make the documentary was the only way this could have ever worked out. So Jonathan Miranda is making it. And I I'm going to do a little shameless plug here. when it was finished cuz it was finished a few months ago. Uh documentaries really can't be much more than 90 minutes long uh for purposes of distribution. We're trying to we need someone to pick this up to reach as many people as possible whether it's Netflix or Amazon or whoever. And so when I saw it, I loved it, but I was like looking at it and I said, "You can't tell our story in 90 minutes. There's too much leading up to this, too much that happened on the trip, and too much aftermath to to to do this, right? So, we had to cut so many things that everybody would want to hear. So, I made the decision, we have to turn this into a docu series.

[00:47:20]>> So, it's going to be a four-part docue series. It's going to tell all this all the story, which everyone needs to hear.

[00:47:27]And I talked with Jonathan and I said, Jonathan, what is it going to cost?

[00:47:31]Because I'm tapped out. I've I've invested way too much into this. What is it going to cost to turn this 90-minute documentary into a four-part docue series? So, he went out to his contacts in Hollywood, and this is cool. They're all a little freaked out right now about about AI, people in Hollywood.

[00:47:48]>> Mhm.

[00:47:49]>> And so, they're trying to prove themselves, prove they're better than AI. So, we're we're getting top talent at very low cost. So he went out and talked to editors, color guys, music, sound, the whole nine yards. He's like, "Will, we can turn this into a four-part dockie series for $50,000."

[00:48:07]And I said, "We can we can raise that."

[00:48:10]So So there's a GoFundMe right now. If you go there and just type in the final experiment, we just need to raise $50,000 to turn this into a four-part docue series. And >> we'll have that on the screen for YouTube. Those watching on YouTube.

[00:48:25]>> Oh, yeah. Thank you so much.

[00:48:27]Yeah, thank you so much. And if you donate, there's different thresholds.

[00:48:31]You can have your name in the credits.

[00:48:34]So, this is going to end up being a big deal. It's going to end up being an important piece in history. In my opinion, um it's funny, we talk about uh BC and AD, right, before Christ and Anodiny.

[00:48:49][clears throat] Uh flat Earth is now going to be BTF and ATF. It's it's it's the line in the sand. There was before the final experiment and then there's after the final experiment. And so this is going to be really what happened that ended up ending flat earth. Pe people just started leaving in droves. People no longer believe in it. And so this documentary is going to be a big deal.

[00:49:13]So if you want to help us out and you want to maybe even have your your name in the credits forever, uh go ahead and and give us a donation. Uh, I think we're going to have no problems raising raising that money.

[00:49:24]>> So, I assume this film producer, this uh guy you mentioned, he's not a flat-earther anymore.

[00:49:30]>> So, he is uh telling his story in the documentary.

[00:49:35]>> Okay.

[00:49:35]>> So, I don't want to spoil that. Okay.

[00:49:37]>> But he he he saw the light when we went to Antarctica.

[00:49:41]>> Okay. And then what about Flat Earth Dave?

[00:49:44]>> Yeah. So, he is still doing his thing.

[00:49:49]And here's what's really sad. Uh, he's been really good friends with Jiren Campanella for years. Really good friends. Super tight. As soon as Jiren went to Antarctica and did the live stream and said, "Sometimes you are wrong in life. There is a 24-hour son."

[00:50:07]He Dave has not talked to him once.

[00:50:10]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:50:11]>> So Dave threw away a lifelong friendship with Jiren over this issue. And so I think that that is absolutely despicable. Yeah.

[00:50:21]>> But he makes his living off of this. And so I don't follow him anymore. I don't really give him the time a day. I don't know [clears throat] what I mean. His app that he sells that he pitches says there's no 24-hour sun. It shows the movement of the sun that can't have a 24-hour sun. So, in my opinion, he's preying on vulnerable people, trying to get money out of them for himself. I think the whole thing is wrong and pretty despicable, but that's kind of where he stands.

[00:50:53]>> Yep. That shows you kind of that cult aspect of that whole thing.

[00:50:58]>> I did want to ask you, we we had a I mentioned earlier a couple of Real Science Radio listeners had emailed us uh the last couple years. I had one just recently, though, which was really timely. So I mean he seems to be influenced by a pastor's sermon on the raia the firmament. Now to this guy's credit he just he just starts from the Bible and you know kudos to him.

[00:51:20]>> Sure >> you know but you know for me the problem comes in when people you know they force that flat earth framework into this into the bible basically you know they overread certain passages and then they treat things figures of speech and you know observational language poetic stuff and somehow they turn that into a flat earth. I mean, how would you respond to these Christians who are like they're kind of they don't want to hear about the science.

[00:51:44]>> Um, >> they're just going to focus on the Bible.

[00:51:48]>> Okay, great. Yeah, I I have a great response to them. So, [clears throat] number one, uh, if you're going to interpret the Bible, because that's what they're doing. They're interpreting the Bible, right? The Bible never says, not once, that there's a hemispherical dome over a flat earth. Never. Never says that. Um, if you're going to interpret the Bible in a way that contradicts the reality that we live in and can see with our own eyes, all you're doing is you're telling the world, "The Bible is wrong.

[00:52:17]The Bible is wrong. The Bible is wrong."

[00:52:20]To just give a a a silly off-the-wall example, if you're taking some Hebrew word and you're being like, "You know what? I think this Hebrew word means that there's no trees in the world." and you're going to go tell everybody, I I don't want to hear about science. I don't want to see pictures of trees.

[00:52:38]There are no trees because the Bible says there are no trees. What you're doing is you're just contradicting reality. We can see trees with our own eyes. Now, if you talk to people who are Hebrew experts, I'm talking people that live in Israel, and I've had one on our channel, which you can look up. He lives in Jerusalem.

[00:52:58]They will tell you that Hebrew Hebrew looking back through history they the the people that spoke Hebrew never believed that Rakia was a solid hemispherical dome over a flat earth.

[00:53:12]The better translation is actually expanse and you can show that going back. So now you have these English speakers who are now trying to say that the Hebrew words mean something that the actual people who are experts on Hebrew don't even believe. So there is no case to be made from the Bible. And again, we're talking about something in the present. The reason these other debates exist like were Adam and Eve really Adam and Eve? Uh was there a global flood or not? Is because those are past events and we can't travel to the past. We have to take what we can find today and say, does this best support how we're interpreting the biblical record? But we're just talking about the shape of a present day object. And so we can go out, you can do a high altitude balloon by yourself. If you're rich enough, you can go on a on a ship to low Earth orbit and see the Earth. Or you can just look at the pictures and videos from Artemis 2 that just went around the moon. We have all the evidence that we need. And so if we're talking about something that we can confirm and verify in the present, which is the Earth, we need to then make sure that our interpretations of scripture don't contradict that.

[00:54:23]>> That's right. I mean, the Apostle Paul talked about in Romans 1, you know, the God's attributes are clearly seen and you know, you can, you know, you can trust that creation is real by the things you observe. You can't get out of it. You're without excuse when you're when you face God and you say, "Okay, this is not true because of, you know, whatever reason you've got for denying the obvious." And this is the obvious.

[00:54:48]And here's one of my problems, Will, and I would appeal to this listener. There's a lot of Christians who are astronauts.

[00:54:57]Um, you're you're bearing false witness against them by saying that they're lying. They're in on a conspiracy. I, you know, I have a I have a problem with that. And if they can think of it from who are they impacting, we're not talking just secular people. We're talking Christians. There's one guy that was on the space station. He was stranded there until they were finally able to rescue him. And this uh astronaut who was on the space station, he just spoke at a homeschool conference with, you know, mostly Christians.

[00:55:24]And so I I would appeal to my Christian friends because I like you will I I still know a few people who cling to the flat earth. Uh based on what you've done, based on this final experiment and based on scripture, when you put those together, you can't you don't you can't ignore all the science that's out there.

[00:55:41]I definitely agree with starting with the Bible, but you can't ignore the obvious. Just like Will said, if you see a verse that says there's no trees, are you really going to believe that? You can look at God's invisible attributes and see that you know what was clearly made and faith is the evidence of things not seen. And that's Hebrews 11:1. So, well, this has been tremendous. I mean, what a story. I look forward to that documentary. I'm glad to hear that it's finished and they're just, I guess, putting finishing touches on it. Are they actually Did they put Are they actually working on the four-part series? Do they have that part done?

[00:56:16]>> So, we we've had some donations already and so we've been able to hire the editor, but uh we we need to finish the fund raise to get everything done.

[00:56:25]>> Okay, that's they are working on it.

[00:56:28]>> Yeah. Okay. Do you have a timeline or >> uh he tells >> honestly Jonathan says if we get the funds raised, we can be done in June.

[00:56:37]>> Okay. So that's >> everybody go to that link. Yep. Get the, you know, let's get the funds up to where we can produce this thing. A four-part series. That's awesome and tremendous.

[00:56:49]>> Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad I I got to share the story with your listeners and hopefully if there's any flat-earthers listening, they'll see the light as well.

[00:56:56]>> Yep. All righty. Well, thank you very much again, Will. So, I'm Fred Williams for Real Science Radio and my special guest, Will Duffy. We're great to have you on board. And so for all of our listening audience, may God bless you.