Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders - 07/23/26

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[00:00:11][music] >> This is an EWTN Newslink. I'm Teresa Tomio from Catholic Connection. Tropical Storm Bertha on its way to Texas where it is expected to make landfall sometime this afternoon. A tropical storm warning is in effect along the coast from south of New Orleans to just west of Houston.

[00:00:30]And the Vatican Secretary [music] of State is calling for renewed dialogue between the US and Iran. Vatican news reporting Cardinal Poin speaking on the sidelines of a book presentation, saying, "Unfortunately, it seems to me that we are moving in the opposite direction. There [music] is an escalation while the prospects for peace remain non-existent." He did encourage continued negotiation, saying a [music] lasting agreement would be for the good of the country and also for the world.

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[00:01:00]I'm Teresa Tomio and call to communion with Dr. David Anders starts now.

[00:01:11]>> What's stopping you from becoming a Catholic?

[00:01:15]>> Why can't women become priests? Why do Catholics worship Mary?

[00:01:18]>> What's stopping you?

[00:01:19]>> Why do I need to confess my sins to a priest? Where is purgatory in the Bible?

[00:01:24]>> What's stopping you?

[00:01:25]>> I think the Pope has too much authority.

[00:01:27]>> What's stopping you? You are called to communion with Dr. David Anders [music] on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.

[00:01:37]>> Hey there. Welcome [music] again to Call to Communion here on EWTN. We are live and we're taking your phone calls. If you've got a question about the Catholic faith, especially those of you who are not Catholic, that's why we do this program to give you a forum to ask those questions that you're a little bit confused about about what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Here's our phone number, 833288 EWTN. You can call or text 833-2883986.

[00:02:08]If you are texting us today, please be sure to include your first name, your brief question, where you're listening and how you're listening. Message and data rates may apply. Uh, also, if you're listening to us outside North America, please dial 1 and then 205271-2985 and you can always send us an email ctcwtn.com.

[00:02:33]We are ready to roll here. Uh, Pedro Keelles, our producer. Matt Kabinsky, our phone screener. Ace McKay keeping an eye on social media for us today. I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David Anders.

[00:02:44]>> Tom, how are you today?

[00:02:44]>> Doing well. How are you, sir?

[00:02:46]>> Oh, I'm doing decent, thank you.

[00:02:47]>> Interesting question we received here.

[00:02:49]This is a text that actually came in yesterday. Couldn't get it because we ran out of time. So, we're going to do it right now. This is from Colin in Virginia. Colin says, "I'm wondering where the idea of erecting statues such as Mary or Joseph is shown in tradition or scripture."

[00:03:06]>> Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate the question. So, if you will look at sacred scripture uh as a number of passages we might we might talk about. Uh I'm thinking in particular first Kings chapter 6 where we read the description of how God wanted Solomon to design the temple. Uh-huh.

[00:03:25]>> We read things like the following. For the inner sanctuary, he, that is Solomon, made a pair of cherubam out of olive wood, each 10 cubits high. I don't know exactly how big a cubit is, but I think that's going to be pretty big. Um, and then he goes on to describe the dimensions of the cherubs. On the walls of the temple, both inner outer, he covered the he carved cherubm, palm trees, and open flowers, um, etc., etc., etc. And you can go through that. You also go through the descriptions of the the tent of meeting or the tabernacle that Moses took with him in the desert and that's you from Exodus 25 on and other passages of Leviticus that describe it. And certainly in both of these constructions, the temporary one and the permanent one, you find religious artwork, right? And not just geometric designs, but but anthropomorphic images of of of angels and and animals and and fruits and things of this sort. So scripture includes in instructions for the people of God the use of religious imagery in connection with sacred worship. And so it's obviously in it not understood [clears throat] at all to be a violation of the second commandment which says don't make any excuse me third commandment which is second commandment first commandment uh that says don't make any I got Calvinists there for just a second that says don't make any graven images. See the Calvinists make that sec second commandment. They break that out of the first and make it its own. I got myself hung up. But anyway, Catholic Church says commandment number one, don't worship any other gods or make any graven images. And so the making of graven images is specifically connected to the prohibition on worshiping other gods. It's obviously not a prohibition on making religious art.

[00:04:56]>> No, of course not.

[00:04:57]>> Because the scripture turns around and and demands the making of religious art.

[00:05:03]>> Yeah.

[00:05:03]>> Specifically in places of worship, right? So it's not wrong to do that. So there it is in the Bible.

[00:05:09]Um, and the church followed up on this with insight drawn from the fact of the incarnation because while almighty God is invisible and immortal and and a spirit, you can't depict God artistically in any way because there's no form to be depicted.

[00:05:24]>> Jesus Christ becomes incarnate. He's a man. He has determinate dimensions. He's this tall and this wide and has this color hair and and the suggestion that you somehow couldn't depict Christ pictorially would seem to call into question his very humanity. And that is the argument the church used at the Sabbath ecumenical ecumenical council to justify the making of iconography.

[00:05:46]Right? It really is an expression of our belief in the incarnation. And so religious artwork in Christianity we have I mean documentable evidence of Christian art from the second century.

[00:05:57]And uh that doesn't mean we didn't have it before the second century. It's just that you know the data is thin from the first century.

[00:06:02]>> Maybe Christians had religious artwork, but we know for a fact it exists from the second century because we have the archaeology to demonstrate it. So it's a very old part of the tradition.

[00:06:10]>> Well, very good. Thank you, Colin, for your text. Glad we could get to it on today's program. It is called to communion here on EWTN. Still time for your phone calls. Uh brand new phone, brand new show, so brand new hour.

[00:06:23]Here's the number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:06:31]We're going to get right to the first call which is from Craig in California listening on the EWTN app. Hey there Craig. What's on your mind today?

[00:06:40]>> Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

[00:06:42]>> Sure.

[00:06:42]>> Uh Dr. Anders, I have a question for you. I I I have a uh friend of my wife and I that left the church in their 20s.

[00:06:51]They had young kids um and now is Protestant. Uh we're both now in our late 60s and stuff and we were talking and I'm trying to get him back into the church. I told him I don't believe he was fully catechized. Um he doesn't know a lot of stuff. So my question to you is he had some questions for me. I went home and I put it into chat GPT and it spit some answers out and it all looked legit to me. anything I put in there, whether I put things about the early church or baptism, it it almost like is Chad GPT is Catholic that I just want to know is it it's is that something that I can trust when I evangelize to people.

[00:07:27]>> Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate the question and I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert in anything that is information technology, least of all artificial intelligence, although I do use artificial intelligence. I admit to using it. Um but from what I understand and of course I'm not an expert in this AI it it how you frame the question is really important and of course the data that it has available to it is really important and and you know AI searches scans the internet for input that humans have created and put in there and and it's going to just collate that information spit it back out to you. So when it comes to things like you know names and dates um you know I wouldn't be that skeptical although AI has been known to invent facts that don't exist.

[00:08:13]I mean actually I I did a an an AI inspired internet search about myself. I said describe Dr. David Andrew's uh religious and spiritual trajectory.

[00:08:24]>> And I was astonished to learn that I married a woman named Julie at St. Paul's Cathedral.

[00:08:29]>> What? [laughter] I I never married anybody. Excuse me.

[00:08:32]that I married a woman named Julie and my wife Julie and I came into the church at St. Paul's Cathedral.

[00:08:36]>> My wife is not Julie and I was not received into the church at St. Paul's.

[00:08:39]So that was too Yeah. So that was a that was a [laughter] gross factual errors about me, you know, and I'm not even that big a deal, right?

[00:08:46]Um but let's hold that thought. I'll come back to it after the break. Sit tight, Craig. We'll continue this on in just a moment and we'll take some more calls at 833288 EWTN. You can call or text 833-288-3986.

[00:09:01]It [music] is called to communion with Dr. David Anders here on EWTN. Stay with us >> on EWTN News in Depth. After losing their daughters to [music] devastating Texas floods one year ago, a Catholic couple leans on their faith for peace and healing. Plus, America's first Marian shrine. We bring you to the shrine of Our Lady of Lche and St. Augustine, Florida. Join us for EWTN News in tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, [music] exclusively on EWTN radio and television.

[00:09:40]>> Father Gerald Murray.

[00:09:42]>> No, it is a wonderful occasion. 250 years of freedom that includes the first freedom, freedom of religion. So the Catholics came to [music] the United States in search of religious freedom. I think Catholics have contributed greatly to the United States. We have to say in divine providence, the United States is a place where the Catholic Church has been able to exercise her prerogatives [music] to preach the gospel, to celebrate the sacraments, to educate youth, to take care of the sick, to assist the poor, to help with orphans, done all of those things and without government interference because of course in the United States we believe that the people are sovereign and they've determined that they want a free country and thank the Lord for that. So yeah, there's a lot to be grateful [music] for. I just thank the Lord that the United States had an open and welcome place for people to come so that they could participate in this great free nation and contribute [music] to the well-being of not only our family but the whole country.

[00:10:45]It's called Communion with Dr. David Andrew here on EWTN. Our phone number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:10:57]If you're watching us on TV today, may I recommend uh sending us an email ctc atewtn.com.

[00:11:04]Before the break, we were talking with Craig in California who was who was talking about AI and he says, "When I'm looking for resources about the Catholic Church, how much can I trust AI?"

[00:11:15]>> Yeah. So, before the break, I said, you know, AI has been known to have factual errors. And I gave a kind of au amusing illustration of one of those factual errors. And when it when it uh when it interprets information, it is of course going from data that is derived from internet sites and you know content that it's searched and so it's it's as reliable as the underlying source data from which is drawing its conclusions.

[00:11:41]>> Sure. Sure. You know, one thing that I am personally aware of uh as a Catholic lay theologian is that there are I'm going use another internet word here.

[00:11:50]There are memes, right, in Catholic culture that that take on a life of their own that become very popular uh points of discussion and and topics and catechesus and things like that that are actually not right. I mean, there are trends in Catholic discourse that Catholics produce that's not accurate to the teaching of the Catholic faith. And um you know, one that I have harped on a great deal on this show that pops up from time to time is this this uh this fantastical notion that going to mass is something like entering Doctor Who's Tardis and that you time travel to Calvary when you go to mass. That's nowhere in official Catholic teaching, but it's a it's a popular Catholic legend that circulates in some catechical circles. And I've found whole websites dedicated to quite literally the concept of the mass as time travel, which is not true. that mass is not a form of time travel.

[00:12:42]>> Yeah.

[00:12:42]>> Um and but it's a popular theme. Well, I if you start internet searching, uh give me articles on the masses time travel. I mean, you're going to find some because it's out there in the blogosphere and people will write about it even though it's not correct theology, right? Um and so how you frame the question is going to have an effect on the answers that you get back and then the data that it looks at. And so, you know, I I use AI, but I use AI as someone who's pretty well educated in the tradition and I've read the sources and I I know the authorities and so I have some critical sense in how to evaluate and use data and also as a trained historian, I I know something about how to evaluate data and apply it critically and so I can bring those skills to bear in making AI serve my ends and hopefully not being served serving the ends of AI itself. Um uh you know the same thing happens with with sort of userenerated content sources like Wikipedia. I mean I'll use Wikipedia. I like Wikipedia. Um but u you know when I look up areas in which I have expertise >> I find errors you know I find errors but you know it's it can be you can get little helpful points of reference in historical data but you know tested against against other sources. And then finally, you know, if you're trying to come up with, say, theological arguments, maybe apologetical arguments in response to this, that or the other thing, again, one thing that I've noticed just doing this work myself is that um, you know, you can there are these sort of stock in trade answers that Catholics are want to fall back upon that may not always be the best responses in a given context. And so, you have to have some human sensitivity and wisdom to know where is this person I'm talking to coming from? What is their philosophical background? What kind of assumptions do they make? Is this stock and trade apologetical response the right one to use in this instance? The deeper your own knowledge of the tradition and of persons, the more nuance and prudence you can bring to giving answers. So all that is to say, I think AI is a tool. It can be used. I'll give you one more example of one time I used AI quite fruitfully. I had to give a talk and I wanted to cite a passage from St. Gregory Nazanzis a famous quotation that I had read in a hundred secondary sources but for the life of me I couldn't remember where to find it in the original sources >> well I had you know a week to write the talk I was not going to go read the entire extant corpus of Gregory Nazis looking for this quote you know >> nor did I particularly want to dig through all my histories and try to find it in there and then you know look to the footnote so I simply asked artificial intelligence >> where does Gregory Nazis say this thing and I got an answer which I was then able to to test to verify and I went, "Oh, okay. AI helped me answer a very specific question that I was able to independently verify." So, that was useful.

[00:15:23]>> Craig, is that helpful for you?

[00:15:25]>> It really is. Can I sneak in just a a question from yesterday? So, yesterday, Dr. Anders, I I there was a guy that called in or sent in a email and he was talking about uh Protestants and you were commenting, you gave some examples on things that weren't in the Bible that Protestants do. And I played it back for my wife last night. helping her to to evangelize to our friends. And one of the things that you put in there I I was hoping you'd expound on. You mentioned one that we were confused on. You mentioned that nowhere in the Bible does it talk about putting a swimming pool with chlorine in a church and it was referencing baptism and I was wondering if you could expound on what your thought process was on that because I was thinking maybe with Protestants they'd think it was like reliving Christ coming out of the Jordan or something like that but what was your thought on that?

[00:16:12]>> Yeah, thanks. So if if you are in a Baptist church or a church that is inspired by Baptist polity and sacrament sacramental theology, they very often have baptismal fonts built into the architecture of the church. And they are in effect small swimming pools. They're kind of like large jacuzzi's without the bubbles, you know, and uh and it's a normal part of their ritual that when someone makes a profession of faith, if they are have attained the age of reason, sometimes a little bit younger than that, they will be administered into the into the swimming pool and they will be submerged and the pastor will get in the water with them and say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." And up they come and everybody claps and that person is baptized. Yay. Catholic Church recognizes that as a valid baptism, by the way. They don't then will speute that's a valid baptism. But in sacred scripture there is no physical description of the act of baptism.

[00:17:02]Jesus says baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. He doesn't say what does that mean? He never ex he never explains what does it mean to baptize the does it mean you pronounce the words which is what the church understands.

[00:17:16]>> Yeah.

[00:17:16]>> But he doesn't say that. He doesn't say say these words. He gives you a formula but doesn't tell you what the formula means or how to use it. He makes no reference directly to water, [clears throat] right? So we know that Christ himself when he was baptized by John the Baptist, this took place in the Jordan River. But for all we and that he goes down the water, comes up out of the water. But for all we know, you know, baptism means like set the sandals of your feet on fire and then go stick them in the Jordan River to put them out.

[00:17:47]Like there's this it never says baptism involves going into a body of water and submerging yourself. Now sometimes the Baptist will quibble and say, "Well, doesn't the Greek word baptismo mean to immerse?" No, it doesn't. Etmologically, it comes from that root, but etmology is not the same thing as meaning. Meaning is defined by use.

[00:18:07]>> The word baptism in coin a Greek means to perform the sacrament of baptism of which there is no physical description in the Bible. Again, Philip Ethiopian unic, oh, there's water here.

[00:18:19]I can be baptized. But we're not told what Philip does with the water. Does he fill his squirt gun with it and shoot the guy in the head? There's no physical description. You just take for granted that you know what baptism is. Where did you get that knowledge from? It was not from the text of the Bible. You got it from Christian tradition. Yes, >> you got it from Christian tradition. And there's a thousand things like that within Protestantism within the most Bible only no tradition Protestant does many many things dogmatically insistently with reference only to sacred tradition never realizing that their tradition is not explicitly detailed in the Bible.

[00:18:59]one that I learned from a Protestant pastor actually who was a you know a proponent of infant baptism fortunately um he said look you know lots of things are not spelled out for you in the Bible one of them is giving communion to women well everybody wants to give communion to women we should give communion to women Catholic church does Bible doesn't say to and there's no description of communion in which women receive it right so if you were just going to stick literally to the only things you could infer from the denotative sense of the text. You'd have to cut out a great deal of Protestant belief and practice.

[00:19:36]>> Absolutely. Craig, thanks so much for your call from California. That opens up a line for you at 833288 EWTN. Two lines open right now.

[00:19:45]8332883986.

[00:19:48]It is called Communion with Dr. David Anders here on EWTN. Let's go to Laura now in Indiana listening to us on SiriusXM channel 13. Hello Laura. What's on your mind today?

[00:20:00]>> Hi, I had a quick question. Um, my mom is um about to turn 70 and her sister passed away this year. So, I'm trying to address this with prudence and gentleness, but she is really into these kind of podcasts and stories where people tell these um near-death experiences and they you know, go to heaven and visit family and um you know, they see themselves on the operating table and all this kind of stuff. And we were visiting this weekend and I said, "Mom, you really don't need to be getting involved with that kind of stuff. I mean, that's just not that's not a good thing to to get involved with. Um, and she was like, "Oh, but it's just so interesting and I'm not, you know, I'm just not not doing anything wrong." I'm like, "Well, it's just not the greatest thing for you to be, you know, messing around with." And I just would really like some um more concrete examples or things that I could tell her um to kind of help her understand, you know, where the line is and um what I could do um in explaining it to her.

[00:21:04]>> Yeah, sure. Thanks. So, you know, you remind me of a story from my own life.

[00:21:07]When I was in high school, not practicing Catholic, not really practicing Christian of any kind. I uh I had some friends in high school. They were girls who got really into Ouija boards.

[00:21:17]>> Oh.

[00:21:18]>> And uh and communing with what they took to be spirits, departed spirits. And uh they invited me once into their little group. And I declined to participate.

[00:21:27]They said, "Oh, you got to come join us." You know, it said this and it said that. And and I one of the girls that I was friends with, I kind of pulled aside, "Let me ask you a question." She said, "Yeah." I said, "Um, if you were walking down the street one night, you know, dark, maybe a sketchy part of downtown, and a disembodied voice comes from a dark alley, "Hey, little girl, come here. Got some candy for you, would you do what it said? Would you trust that voice?" Well, of course not. Okay. So, why are you trusting a voice that you know nothing about that comes out of a Ouija board? Like, what's the difference between the disembodied voice on the street corner and the disembodied voice from the board?

[00:22:09]>> Yeah.

[00:22:10]>> I mean, even if you think it's real, I mean, it may not even be real, but even think it's real. And she was like, "Huh, I never thought of it that way."

[00:22:17]>> There's just no good op priori reason >> Yeah.

[00:22:19]>> to trust any representation that comes from these kinds of sources. Right.

[00:22:25]Whatsoever.

[00:22:26]>> Right. And uh and the fact of the matter is is that these accounts of out-of- body experiences, near-death experiences, have contrary accounts of the afterlife. Like they don't all agree with each other in the representations that they make. So they can't all be right. Right. I mean, if any of them are right, they can't all be right because they contradict one another. The church would regard these as claims of private revelation. Claims of private revelation.

[00:22:52]Church does not say that you should never listen to private revelation.

[00:22:56]All right. Now I think it's a big difference if u let us say that I had one of these experiences which I have not don't particularly want one but let's say I had one and um and I learned something or I seemed to learn something that was of particular importance to my own spiritual life and in a way that motivated me to a deeper practice of the virtues faith hope and charity justice temperance prudence fortitude >> and I became a far better Catholic in consequence Well then, and I didn't come up with any heretical beliefs. Well, then that private revelation to me brought about good fruit. Doesn't mean it was veritical. Doesn't mean it was supernatural. Just means, oh, I can be happy that it brought about good fruit.

[00:23:42]If priv if and when private revelations have value, it is of that kind.

[00:23:47]>> Okay? It is a value to the person who had the experience in the context in which they had it provided it's actually you know of supernatural origin or or whatever and it leads them into deeper practice of their faith or faith open charity or kindness to strangers or what have you right >> when it becomes a kind of object of esoteric interest you know where where there's just a sort of the sensationalistic appeal and titilate my imagination well then it's uh then it's not really worth that much, you know, and and there's no reason a priori again to take these representations at face value as if they're veritical. And we know that many of them have been false and many of them contradict one another.

[00:24:27]>> Laura, thank you so much for your phone call. It's called Communion here on EWTN. Still time for your phone call at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:24:40]Let's go to Derek in Maryland, also listening today on SiriusXM channel 130.

[00:24:46]Hey Derek, what's on your mind today?

[00:24:48]>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I heard the previous caller >> talk about uh AI. Yeah. And um that's a field that I'm in and um technology wise >> and I just wanted to share that I leverage AI >> for a lot of my Catholic research. But what I do is there's some things that I've shared with other people that I thought might help some others. Um what I do is you can actually tell the AI a number of things to remember. And what I tell the AI to remember is number one, I'm Catholic. Number two, um all responses should have a biblical worldview.

[00:25:25]Number three, I want every response to be uh correlated against um the catechism, the germ, and I also uh ask it to use the neighbor version of the Bible and to reference all Bible verses.

[00:25:43]Um, so if I ask a question and I say, "Hey, this is what I'm asking." And then it gives spits out a response. While it's not perfect and I never expect an absolute um I never expect a response that I don't have to check or validate or verify, >> that helps to >> then show the sources, cite the sources, >> uh, actually quote the the various uh >> um references that it uses. So that way when I get the answer, I can at least somewhat validate, hey, this makes sense, it doesn't make sense. Uh maybe I need to dive into it more. But that's really helped me and I thought maybe it might help others.

[00:26:21]>> Yeah, I really appreciate that. And as we mentioned a minute ago that what what you put in to the question, the way you formulate the question will have a lot to do with the way you get the answer back. And uh and so I I also will make use of artificial intelligence. I want to um I want to qualify one thing you said. Whenever I hear biblical worldview language, biblical worldview is Protestant evangelical theological language. And for for Catholic reasons, I think that's a problematic concept. I I think that there's not a singular [music] biblical worldview. I think there's a Catholic worldview, but we can talk about that another time. Derek, thanks so much for your phone call today and appreciate that pro tip there from you in a moment. Derry Mary in Dearbornne, Michigan. Joanne in the Midwest. Still time for your phone call at 833288 EWTN.

[00:27:12]>> July is dedicated as the month of devotion to the precious [music] blood of Jesus. Many saints have spoken of devotion to the precious blood of Jesus, most notably St. Catherine of Sienna.

[00:27:26]During the month of July, we are encouraged to honor the precious [music] blood of Jesus by making an act of love to the precious blood [music] every day of the month. The chaplet of the most precious blood with card is composed of 33 [music] beads in memory of the 33 years of Jesus's life on earth and is available at ewtnreeligiouscatalogue.com. [music] Have you ever heard someone say that Christians have committed some of the worst atrocities [music] in history?

[00:28:03]Well, GK Chestern says that it's very right to rebuke our religion for falling short of our own standards and ideals.

[00:28:12]But it's absurd to pretend that Christianity fell lower than the other religions, the ones that professed the very opposite standards and ideals. In other words, the savages and heathens have had some pretty savage and heathen ideas and practices. Chesterton says the Christian has not been worse than the heathen in an absolute sense. The Christian is only worse because it's his business to be better.

[00:28:41]>> Spend more time with the Apostle of Common Sense. Visit chesterton.org [music] or for more information and go to ewtnrc.com to discover more books and programs written and inspired by GK Chesterton.

[00:28:56]>> Matt Swain here tomorrow on the Sunrise Morning Show. [music] We'll preview the Sunday mass readings with Father Hezekias Carnazo and Father Jonathan Duncan, plus news, weather, sports, and more. Now, back to Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:29:15]Thanks for [music] joining us here on EWTN's Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders. Still time for a few more phone calls at 833288 EWTN. You can call or text 833-2883986.

[00:29:29]Earlier in the show, we were talking about uh various websites. Let me uh tell you about a wonderful website, our very own EWTN website, which is uh dedicated to our founders, Mother Angelica, where you can celebrate her remarkable life. It's filled with photos, milestones, heartfelt stories, and her wit and wisdom that have inspired the hearts of all ages over the years. When I listen to an EWTN uh program with Mother Angelica, it's like she recorded yesterday. They are absolutely timeless. Visit EWTN.commotherangelica.

[00:30:05]EWTN.commotherangelica.

[00:30:08]Let's go to Dearbornne, Michigan now and talk with Mary who's listening to us on a Maria Radio online. Hello, Mary.

[00:30:15]What's on your mind today?

[00:30:18]>> Hello. Um, [clears throat] I think I'm having a bad connection.

[00:30:22]>> We can hear you just fine, Mary. Yeah, we can hear you. Can you give us your question?

[00:30:26]>> Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:30:29]Go right ahead.

[00:30:31]>> Okay. Um, so [clears throat] there is a a theory that um, a prominent podcaster [clears throat] has been talking about, which is that um, Pope Benedict did not really resign in the correct way. And therefore, Pope Francis and Pope Leo aren't really valid pope. and they have a lot of very um tenuous uh arguments to support this. Um one of them is that um Pope Benedict when he was a young theologian wrote about the theory of a possibility of two popes at the same time. And another one of their arguments is that he wore um he continued to wear white and live in the Vatican or around the Vatican. And so he really considered himself to be the second pope. So how can I respond to uh friends who are trying to get me to believe this?

[00:31:34]>> Yeah. Thanks. So here's what Pope Benedict the 16th said. Um he said with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of bishop of Rome successor of St. Peter entrusted to me by the cardinals on April the 19th 2005 in such a way that is from the 28th of February 2013 at 20 hours 2000 hours the sea of Rome the sea of St. Peter will be vacant and a conclave to elect the new supreme pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is. I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

[00:32:07]That's pretty specific.

[00:32:08]>> It was pretty specific and Pope Benedict and Pope Francis responded to these uh conspiracy theories and denied that they had any validity in them. So, um now you know I can't prove to you I can't prove to you that Benedict the 16th was not a lizard person from Alpha Centauri.

[00:32:29][laughter] Right? There was a conspiracy theory in the ancient church that Jesus did not die on the cross and that instead he switched souls with Judas and so that Judas died on the cross and Jesus like sniggering walked away.

[00:32:47]>> Wow.

[00:32:47]>> Right. That was a a Gnostic conspiracy theory of the first century. Now >> I can't there's no way you can refute a theory like that, but there's just no good reason to believe it.

[00:32:59]>> Yeah.

[00:33:00]>> Right. I mean, you can come up with any number of wildeyed hypotheses that are impossible to verify or falsify.

[00:33:08]>> That doesn't make them credible. No, >> you have to have you have to have good evidence, right? Not spirious evidence.

[00:33:16]The fact of the matter is is the sea of Peter declared the Sea of Peter to be vacant and all the bishops of the world concurred with that judgment and so did the conclave of cardinals that elected Pope Benedict's successor. So you know the um St. Augustine once confronted a very different kind of theological claim in 4th century North Africa uh with a group called the Donatists who claimed that they had the right interpretation of things and it was a kind of a conspiracy theory and um and uh and and Augustine's response was well you guys are the only ones that think this but the verdict of the whole world is conclusive meaning all the bishops of the of the of the Catholic Church think otherwise and >> the verdict of the whole world is conclusive, right? So, there's just no good reason to hold that position.

[00:34:07]>> Mary, thanks so much for your phone call. Uh you may want to uh let your friends know about this particular program, Call to Communion, which you can find on EWTN.com/listen EWTN.com, and they can check it out for themselves. Thanks again for your call.

[00:34:24]Let's go now to Joanne somewhere in the Midwest. Hello, Joanne. What's on your mind today?

[00:34:30]>> Thank you for taking my call.

[00:34:31]>> Sure. um a couple Jehovah Witness neighbors are very nice and wonderful people and they've both invited me to attend um a weekend event with them. I have informed them that I'm Catholic and that um we actually believe that Jesus is God. She confirmed that they believe he's the son of God and not um God. Is that accurate? And what other what are the other major points in which we do not believe the same? Thank you.

[00:34:59]>> Yeah, thank you. So the Jehovah's Witnesses um deny dogmas of the Catholic faith uh most conspicuously they deny the dogma that Christ is fully God. Um and uh and so they are in effect Aryans or they're similar to Aryanism, the ancient heresy that was condemned at the council of Nika.

[00:35:21]They of course they they deny the doctrine of the church and the papacy and the episcopacy apostolic succession sacramental theology. Um they uh uh wish to say they reject Catholic tradition, Catholic magisterium. Um they uh interestingly they also maintain the belief that it is immoral to receive blood transfusions which is something they're well known for which is why when you go to the doctor they always ask you if you'd be willing to accept a blood transfusion because there's people out there that wouldn't because they belong to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Um, and they they credit the Watchtower Society with something like magisterial authority to interpret the sa the text of sacred scripture and the signs of the times in spite of the fact that the Watchtower Society has proven itself wrong many times over when it comes to um the prediction of future events. So, you know, the appeal of something like the Jehovah's Witnesses, I think, has less to do with doctrine and has more to do with sociology. It is it's the fact of being in a tight-knit well-defined religious community that you know has everything painted in black and white and because they understand themselves to be very much a minority and over against you know the wider Christian tradition and the rest of the world that that conveys a sense of specialness you know we we are the elect few who belong to the right group and everybody else is outside >> us versus them >> us versus them and that's a really attractive >> stance to take for a lot of people at different points of their lives and I think it's attractive here, you know, to this these individuals. Um, so, you know, my my counsel would be personally I I would I mean I would rather watch paint dry than go to a Jehovah's Witness retreat. I mean, I really would I wouldn't expect to to gain anything of genuine spiritual value there. Um, I think there's other ways to show kindness to my JW neighbors, right? So, yeah, I would I would advise against participation.

[00:37:20]>> Joanne, thanks so much uh for your phone call. We just got a text uh from an anonymous person uh who says, "My daughter and her husband are fallen away Catholics. They have not baptized their two children. I have not said anything religious as it is a touchy subject. Now that I'm 83, I asked her if she has considered returning to the faith she was raised in." She said she believes there are many ways to worship God.

[00:37:46]Also, if you're a good person, you're okay. How do I respond to that kind of thinking?

[00:37:52]>> Okay, thanks. So, let me let me talk about this theoretically a bit and then talk about it practically.

[00:37:56]>> Okay, >> theoretically, what do I make of the claim that if you're a good person, you're okay?

[00:38:02]>> Well, I I think that's fundamentally true. The question is, are you a good person?

[00:38:07]>> Ah, >> right. And and the point of the Catholic faith is to take people who are not good people and to help them become good people. Yeah. And the church has a pretty rigorous understanding of what it means to be a good person. You know, Christ confronted a lot of people in his own day who are pretty sure they were good people. And a lot of his ministry consisted in pointing out to them that maybe they weren't as good as they thought they were. A lot of the parables, for instance, have this effect of helping you realize that, oh, maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was. Like the parable of the good Samaritan is is really about helping us open our eyes to the fact that, you know, we're like those people that pass by the guy on the side of the street. You know, we're not >> we like to think of ourselves as charitable, but you start painting some scenarios, you realize, well, would I help here? Would I help there? Maybe I'm not as nice as I think I am. You know, and remember the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. I thank thee God that I'm not like that tax collector.

[00:39:02]Jesus says it's the tax collector who went home justified. You know, so a lot of his teaching is to help really get that understanding in us.

[00:39:09]>> So, uh, but at the end of the day, [clears throat] you know, scripture says that it's that it's charity that unites us to God. The Catholic faith is the principal means that God put in the world to help transform us into that life of charity. But it's but it's possible for someone to come to that moral transformation outside the Catholic Church. It's just more difficult. But that doesn't mean we should presume they have it, right?

[00:39:33]Right? So there's no presumption for the salvation of of everybody. Um and there's good reasons to be Catholic because this is the religion that that Christ instituted and God created to bring people to faith, hope, and charity, the life of the virtues. Um but you know, we understand that God can save people outside the formal boundaries of Catholicism. And in terms of how you respond to your I think you said your daughter respond to your daughter to your child.

[00:39:56]>> Yeah.

[00:39:57]>> Um you already mentioned that it was a touchy subject, right? So, I think you respond with kid gloves.

[00:40:04]>> Sure. Appreciate your text. Thanks for sending it. It is called to communion here on EWTN. One of the great uh weekend shows we have for you on EWTN radio is called Conversations with Consequences. We bring that to you Saturday mornings at 7 a.m. Eastern.

[00:40:19]Saturday afternoons at 5:00 PM Eastern on EWTN Radio. Great show. hosts the weekly radio show of the Catholic Association featuring conversations about the topics that matter to an educated and well-formed Catholic audience. Do check it out this weekend on EWTN radio. Here now is Chris in Nebraska listening on the Great Spirit Catholic Radio. Hello, Chris. What's on your mind today?

[00:40:44]>> Yeah, thank you for taking my >> uh can you hear me? Okay.

[00:40:48]>> Yeah, go right ahead Chris.

[00:40:51]>> I appreciate it. Okay. So, uh my wife and I, uh have been married for about 10 years. Um and I love her deeply. Um I'm hoping for reconciliation, but about a year and a half ago, um my wife left. Um and uh just basically with a few there was nothing that was major that was happening in the relationship. Um just seemed to me got into kind of some bad company with some bad advice. Um she has remained like going to church hours and and and is teaching my three children the faith and uh things are going really well there. Uh but she seems to be just kind of living as if this is okay in the eyes of don't want to condemn her but just looking for some clarity from my point of view to just understand the church's teaching. like it seems to me that some priests in her life have kind of told her that it's okay to >> be separated >> and not be together. Um she's currently going for a divorce right now and uh I I'm just questioning what in this time when is there any fault or what what is the stand I guess holding there? what I got you teaching and let me say first of all I'm really sorry for this rupture in your marital life. This has got to be incredibly painful to you and I my heart goes out to you for what you're suffering. So the code of canon law canon 1151 reads as follows. Spouses have the obligation and the right to maintain their common conjugal life unless a lawful reason excuses them.

[00:42:40]What are some of those lawful reasons? A spouse who occasions grave danger of soul or body to the other or to the children or otherwise makes the common life unduly difficult provides the other spouse with a reason to leave either by a decree of the local ordinary that means the bishop or if there is a danger in delay even on his or her own authority.

[00:43:06]So the church has a pretty high standard when it comes to the obligation to maintain conjugal living. After all, when we took our vows of marriage, we promised better or worse.

[00:43:18]>> Yes, we did.

[00:43:19]>> Better or worse. That includes worse.

[00:43:23]Now, um, is it possible that a Catholic priest told her she was perfectly okay?

[00:43:30]Yeah, sure. It's absolutely possible.

[00:43:33]You don't know what that priest heard from her.

[00:43:37]What did she tell him?

[00:43:40]Maybe she spun a big story. I'm sure there's two sides. There's always two sides, right? Um, you know, I would like to tell you that there is a priest out there who could listen to you both give a perfectly objective judgment on whether or not there were moral grounds for separation and uh and then everybody involved would respect that judgment.

[00:44:05]that's not going to happen.

[00:44:07]Um, you said you didn't want to condemn her. I think that's admirable and I think it's necessary because you coming with the Code of Canada law in your hand is not going to change your mind.

[00:44:17]>> Right.

[00:44:18]>> Right. Um, regardless of what your rights are, regardless of what her obligations are, [clears throat] there may not be a path to reconciliation, but the path to reconciliation, it looks only one way.

[00:44:32]And this is the path. And it's unfortunate that this is the case, but it is the case. She's the one that wants the separation. You do not. That means you can ask nothing of her.

[00:44:44]And if you want the reconciliation, you may ha you have to be willing to grant her whatever concession she wants because she's she's she's ready to walk out the door.

[00:44:56]>> Yeah.

[00:44:58]>> So if she says, "Well, the only condition I would ever come back on is X." And you think, well, X is outlandish.

[00:45:04]Doesn't matter what you think. She's just said that's the one condition. So, you got to make up your mind. Am I going to concede that one point or am I going to lose my wife? And it may be a point you can't concede. Maybe one you can.

[00:45:18]Um, so she's not interested in dialogue, not interested in making things work out, you know, and not interested in listening to authority either, right?

[00:45:26]So, that's the only path you've got. And and it may not work. If it doesn't work well then you will join the ranks of married people in the Catholic Church who are not living with their spouses.

[00:45:38]Does not mean that your marriage was invalid.

[00:45:41]She may very well seek an anulment.

[00:45:45]You can have your voice heard in that process. Yep.

[00:45:48]>> Right. And protest that you don't think this is this marriage is null and void and you don't think an anulment should be granted. I can't tell you what the outcome of that will be, but you can let your voice be heard. And Chris uh please let please be aware that we are praying for you and for her as well. Thank you so much uh for your call today. Let's go now to uh another Chris. This particular Chris living calling in from California today. Let's go to uh Chris in California. What's on your mind today?

[00:46:16]>> Hey, good afternoon guys.

[00:46:18]>> Howdy.

[00:46:20]So, I've I've always wondered if if a mass is said and only the celebrant is present and there's no one else in the church. I realize the Eucharist is is still consecrated, but the sacrifice of the mass, if there's no one in the church engaging in the sacrifice with the celebrant, is it still effictacious in some way? And if so, how?

[00:46:44]>> Yeah, it is. Well, so keep in mind the celebrant's there. The celment is there making the sacrifice.

[00:46:50]>> The mass is intrinsically meritorious >> and the mass is offered for a particular intention. You know if you go to your parish you can request a mass intention.

[00:47:00]Sometimes those requests will be fulfilled during the daily mass in front of a congregation. Oftentimes they will be fulfilled by priests that are saying private masses in their rectory. I uh I know actually one time my wife had a mass intention that she made a request at our local parish and uh a significant length of time went by like several months and a priest I know who is from way out of town. He's part of our dasis but a far-flung parish out in the hinterlands >> called me up and he said, "Oh, I just want you to know that I uh I I said mass for your wife's intention." I said, "What are you talking about?" Well, this intention here. Then I realized, oh, she had made that request at our local parish like 6 months ago. And what had happened is the the pastor had more mass intentions than he could possibly schedule. And so he farmed out some mass intentions. And that's a common practice, by the way. Priests do that.

[00:47:58]They'll take each other's mass intentions when one of them gets over overwhelmed. And so a priest, you know, in his rectory saying, "A private mass, set a mass, you know, for my wife's intention." And that yes, that's efficacious. Very good, Chris. Thanks so much uh for your call from California.

[00:48:12]Let's go now to Ed, first time caller from Sanduski, Ohio, listening on SiriusXM channel 130. Hello there, Ed.

[00:48:19]What's on your mind today?

[00:48:22]>> Hi. Can you hear me? Okay.

[00:48:24]>> Yeah, go right ahead, Ed.

[00:48:27]>> Okay. Uh I was thinking about this. It's kind of a logic thing that since Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church in 1509 and it kind of so before that you were either Catholic or Jewish then doesn't it stand a reason that the entire New Testament was written by Catholics for Catholic?

[00:48:51]>> Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate the question. I I I know where you're going.

[00:48:55]I appreciate where you're going. I would frame it a little bit differently. What I would harp on is the fact that the New Testament cannon um was approved by the Catholic Church in the 4th century that the reason we have the 27 books of the New Testament that we have is because Catholic bishops authorized this particular cannon of the Bible to be the New Testament of the church of the Christian church. That's an historical fact that's easy to verify. Um, you know, it's probably true that the New Testament documents were written by Catholics, but if you try to engage a non-atholic with that, you're going to get yourself bogged down in some polyimal difficulties in terms of, you know, trying to demonstrate certain facts historically about what the new New Testament authors believed and practiced and so forth. And fact of the matter is is many of the New Testament books are written anonymously or under pseudepiggrifa, right? And so we don't know that much about some of the sacred authors. book of Hebrews in particular, right? We don't know who wrote Hebrews.

[00:49:53]>> Now, you know, church considers it sacred scripture. So, I think we could assert as a matter of faith because we're Catholics that yeah, a Catholic authority wrote that. But I don't know you could demonstrate that historically is my point, you know. So, if but but you can demonstrate historically that that Catholic bishops articulated and authorized the New Testament canon.

[00:50:17]>> Okay. Hey, thanks. Thank you for your call, Ed in Sanduski. Let's go now to Carlos in California listening on the great JP2 radio. Hey there, Carlos.

[00:50:27]What's on your mind today, sir?

[00:50:32]Carlos, are you there?

[00:50:36]Why don't we put Carlos on hold? We also received a text a moment ago from Colin in Virginia. He says, "Protestants seem to be saying as of late, the baptism is by the Holy Spirit and water baptism does not save." Where do they get this theology from?

[00:50:52]>> Yeah. Well, they haven't been saying it as of late. They've been saying it for a while.

[00:50:55]>> Okay.

[00:50:57]>> But what the earliest Protestants believed like Catholics is that the spirit of God comes upon you in baptism.

[00:51:05]Luther believed that, Calvin believed that, Zwingley believed that, all the early process believed that um with one wrinkle in John Calvin's theology, not Luther, but Calvin. Calvin believed that the Holy Spirit could come upon you in baptism if you were among the elect.

[00:51:25]And so in Calvinism, a distinction is inserted that doesn't exist in other Christian traditions. Namely, two classes of baptized people. Those in whom baptism brings them to regeneration and new life and those who just get wet.

[00:51:43]And the difference wasn't anything intrinsic to the to the person, but rather the question of election, whether God had elected to save that person from eternity or not. Now, uh, what happened in Calvinism, particularly in Puritanism, is people begin to wonder, well, how do I know I'm one of the people in whom baptism worked? And so, they begin to try to devise tests of examinations of their interior life to discern whether I have the marks of election or the marks of regeneration about them. Eventually that tendency to introspection leads in the 19th century to an emphasis on the psychological event of conversion you know as you making a decision for Christ that sort of thing >> as the lynch pin like the thing that that defines that you have gotten the spirit of God and it wasn't you know by that time the the you know the psychological event of conversion could be so distant from the the fact of baptism in time that this emphasis on baptism just kind of being an afterthought is very easy to sustain theologically because really you've placed the whole onus on the the psych the psychological event rather than the sacrament and then it becomes a point eventually kind of just becomes a point of doctrine. Yeah.

[00:53:04]>> That well what really matters is conversion not baptism. Even though that wasn't that's not scriptural that's not the biblical belief and it wasn't the belief of the earliest Protestants. was a development that came out of a particular feature of John Calvin's sotiology.

[00:53:19]>> Thanks so much for your text. We have one more text here from Michael in Ohio.

[00:53:24]He says, "I have heard Jesus was born in 4 BC, the year 4 BC. Does that mean he lived until uh 37 or is uh 33 AD a certain thing? What do we know?"

[00:53:37]>> Yeah. No, it doesn't mean he lived to 37. Um it it probably just means that we've got the whole AD thing starting on the wrong date, you know, but it doesn't it ultimately doesn't matter. I mean, yes, he was around 33 when he died. Um and uh you know, getting getting the exact calendar date right, you know, has proved a little tricky over the centuries.

[00:53:55]>> Well, there it is. Appreciate that.

[00:53:57]Thank you so much uh for your uh your text today. We want to thank everybody for their texts, their phone calls. Uh got some emails in. Uh we covered the waterfront. Dr. David Anders, thank you, sir.

[00:54:06]>> Thank you, Tom. If you want to hear this program again, do check it out on the web. It's available for you at EWTN.com/listen.

[00:54:15]EWTN.com/listen.

[00:54:18]Uh, scroll down and you'll see [music] David smiling face. Click on that and you are good to go. On behalf of our fantastic team, I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David Anders. Thanks for joining us.

[00:54:29]See you next time here on EWTN's Call to Communion. Have a wonderful day and God bless.

[00:54:57]Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat.

[00:55:10]He captivates viewers with thought-provoking political and cultural [music] reporting that resonates with Catholics and people of faith.

[00:55:18]>> The Pope made strong statements on the life issues and then he called out surrogacy which we rarely hear about anywhere in the culture. He said [music] surrogacy distorts the family. Is this the clear moral voice of the