Why Don't I Feel Close to Anyone?

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]2022 Matt woke up one day and discovered I was wildly lonely. I'm [music] with people all the time and I felt like I had no one who really knew me. It takes [music] 500 hours to make a friend. That is terrifying. I would almost say if you no longer crave relationships, if you like isolation, that tells you more about the status of your heart tells you more about the wounds of your heart, the protection and for those who find themselves there like my heart breaks for them because that comes most often from a place of hurt.

[00:00:38]Welcome to the Live Change podcast. My name is Josh and today I'm in the studio with Matt and Caroline. Guys, today's topic, I know there's somebody listening to this right now and they don't think the topic's for them and here's why you need to stay on and listen to this.

[00:00:51]We're talking about loneliness. And here's why I think it's easy for us to just self-select out of this because from the outside looking in looking at our lives, the lives of people in our life, it could be easy to say, "Hey, they're super busy. They've got friends.

[00:01:05]Maybe they got a family, they've got kids, they're involved with some types of groups or run clubs, they have social things they go to."

[00:01:12]But even in the crowded rooms they feel alone. And that's a reality like for so many people. Yeah. And it's partially like just the society we're in, partially I think it's just the human condition of who we are. Today I'm hoping that by the end of this podcast we've got some tools in our tool belt to figure out man, how can I no longer feel alone? How can I open myself up to deep meaningful connections and friendships?

[00:01:34]But I do feel like we got to start today like I just a little bit lighter.

[00:01:39]And [clears throat] so I'd love to know from you guys, are you an introvert or are you an extrovert?

[00:01:44]Okay, I Yeah, I was going to say this is probably going to sound So I have like an outgoing personality but I'm actually an introvert cuz I think the definition is like if you recharge or feel refueled by being around people then you're an extrovert. But I definitely don't. Like I I recharge with like my inner circle or like my just at home with my husband but I when I'm around big groups of people like nope, that more often drains me than like fills me back up. And then another thing I So this is funny cuz I feel like I'm going to say this and people are going to be like next when they're talking to me they're going to be like she hates every second of this.

[00:02:20]But I hate small talk. Like it's like my worst nightmare. Like I'm just somebody who I long for like deeper more meaningful conversation and that's like totally an introvert thing so I know small talk's necessary. I know it's like a good thing and you need it for beginning of relationships and all of that but I'm like a no, I want to like go deeper. I want like deep connection just kind of how I'm wired so more introvert for sure. Well, this will shock you guys. I'm wildly extroverted.

[00:02:46]And I love small talk. So like on a Sunday morning in the atrium, I love that like 20-second conversation pop up.

[00:02:52]Yeah, okay. I totally love that. I get supercharged by being by people with people but what does surprise people about me is I am wildly an introvert at conferences. Really?

[00:03:05]>> I go to like a leadership conference, a work conference, a church conference, I all of a sudden like totally shut down.

[00:03:11]I do not want to network. I do not want to talk to people. Like and Pearl's always like, "Why are you angry?" And I'm like, [laughter] "I don't know. I just I'm at a conference and I like shut down." I love I'm an extrovert until I go to a conference and then I'm like You're just like in the zone. You're soaking it all in. I don't know. I don't know. I just I noticed that about myself years ago. Like I go to a conference and I'm like, "Nope, don't want to talk to anybody."

[00:03:33]I like how you talked about recharging a little bit. Simon Sinek talked about what he say? He said, "An introvert wakes up with a certain number of coins and based on social interactions they cost them a coin. An extrovert wakes up with no coins and it's social interactions that gives them coins." They're just going throughout the day. It's you in the atrium like I'm having all these conversations.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah. It's so funny our staff at the end of a Sunday we all get together and all my introverts are like, "I'm so tired."

[00:03:56]And Tony and I we're both extroverts and we're like, "That was the best day ever.

[00:03:58]You want to go out for lunch? What are you going to do tonight?" Like yeah, we leave totally different from a Sunday morning.

[00:04:02]>> Yeah. But what's interesting so whether it's extrovert or introvert, loneliness doesn't care. Like it's going to show up in your life either way.

[00:04:10]And so I want to go back to the dynamic I described in the beginning because I know there's a ton of people out there and their calendars are full but they feel lonely. Why do we feel lonely even though we're busy and we're literally surrounded by people every single day? I think this will surprise some people but um 2022 Matt woke up one day and discovered I was wildly lonely and I felt like I had no no one who really knew me. Now my calendar, I mean I'm I work I think I average around like 50 hours a week every year. I mean so I'm working like crazy. I work for me is meetings and it's people and it's coffees and it's lunch and I'm at no shortage of interacting with people.

[00:04:55]We've got thousands of people all here around the church. We got social media.

[00:04:58]Like I'm with people all the time but I woke up that year and I was like I feel like I don't have anyone who like knows knows knows knows me. And like I had Pearl and like Pearl deeply knew me but I didn't have those like guy friends who I could just completely just just be Matt and be fully known, fully share and just be like, "Hey, I got your back, you got my back." I had a bazillion acquaintances. I had a bazillion people who would do things with me Yeah. but I didn't have anyone who I just could fully just like let it all out and just be like, "Here I am. Let's talk. Let's get to know each other." And that became a thing for me of like I need friends.

[00:05:38]Like I need deep friends in this season.

[00:05:40]Let's stay on that for a minute cuz that's textbook example of what I'm talking about where it's like anybody looking at you, he's an extrovert, he's busy, he enjoys people.

[00:05:48]No one would necessarily say like, "Oh, I think Matt's lonely." What did you do after that to kind of turn that corner then? So [laughter] I uh that year actually read the the goofiest book. It's called Billy No Mates and it's this British dude who he wanted to get married.

[00:06:03]>> British title.

[00:06:04]>> [laughter] >> totally. And it's it's I can't fully recommend the whole book but it was still [laughter] a great read. So if you read it read it with the like censor yourself.

[00:06:13]But [laughter] like it was a hilarious book. But this guy he wanted to get married and he realized that that what was stopping him from getting married was he didn't have any groomsmen and he didn't want to have to tell his fiance, "I have no friends." Cuz she was like, "You're always with people." And he's like, "But none of them are like groomsmen level." And so he just talked about experiments that he ran trying to make friends and I was just like I need to start experimenting on how to make friends and so I just really intentionally just started being like like I joined a walk club with a guy and that that was not my jam.

[00:06:46]Don't [laughter] want to meet at 6:00 a.m. and walk quickly through a neighborhood.

[00:06:50]And then like I like tried a couple of other things just to to start to interact with guys. And but one of the things that said in that book was that it takes 500 hours to make a friend.

[00:07:00]And I'm like, "That is terrifying." And I just realized I've just got to start investing hours. And so I just kept throwing seeds in different opportunities to interact with guys and and you do that thing where you like you try to go past the surface level and if they like bring it back to the surface you're like, "Okay, that's a a data point." And then the ones who kind of like see your vulnerability and then match it you're like, "Oh, okay."

[00:07:21]And so it just kind of took some testing but now what is it? Like 4 years later?

[00:07:25]Like I feel like I finally found those guys but the three that I've kind of landed with are not who I started with but it just was this journey of experimenting and not giving up. Yeah, I feel like that speaks to you you can't use the excuse of I'm too busy. Like you you can choose what you prioritize and so if you choose prioritize like I know I'm lonely, I got to I got to figure this out. Like you'll figure it out.

[00:07:48]You'll and I think too I love how you said like just start trying different things and don't just shut it down your mind cuz you're like I don't like walks or I don't like whatever it may be. Be willing to try something that somebody else in your life enjoys and you might end up liking it and or it might just be a thing that leads to that friendship.

[00:08:03]So I think that's really why. And I had to find like who are like you remember in like so many of our like elementary, middle school, high school friends, they're friends of convenience. Like if we're really honest, they were just the kids who sat next to them on the bus.

[00:08:14]They were the kids at the lunch table.

[00:08:16]They were the kids in your class that you couldn't get away from for 13 years and you're just like stuck with them and so they kind of conveniently were in your circle. And what I realized is I needed to figure out all of my friends are convenience. And so instead of forcing a friendship, who are the people that I can conveniently make a part of my life that we overlap with? And so the guys that I ended up that I would call my closest friends today are the ones who they could fit into my life. So it's the guys who are like, "Hey, you want to come over and work out at 5:30?" They're like, "Yeah, I can be at your house at 5:30." But the ones who are like, "Hey, do you want to go bowling on Thursday night?" I'm like, "I can't go bowling on Thursday night. I can't leave the house." So it's like I had to find the guys who fit into my life. Yeah. And part of that that was part of the experiment of like where can I make room that something consistently can can can happen.

[00:09:05]>> Yeah, there's was so much wisdom in that too. My husband Nick and I were just talking about this. He was just saying how like in this season of our lives I need like my guy friends need to be other guys that also have little kids because like that's the schedule we're on right now and it's just I'm not going to be able to hang out with my friends who don't as much cuz they're living on a whole different schedule. So I feel like there's wisdom in that too. But you bring up high school and I when I was thinking about this I was actually thinking about high school because I think it's such a rare season of life where never in your life outside of high school are you surrounded by all of your friends like all day long for 5 days straight and it's just like it's really cool. It's really special. But and for me when I was in high school that was like a time in my life where I felt the loneliest. Loneliest and the reason for that is because I did not let myself actually be known. Because in high school I mean you're so and this follows you throughout life but like especially in high school you're so worried about like protecting your image and like fear of rejection and you want everyone to like you and you're scared to open up about things because you're worried like, if I share this, then they might drop me like it's hot. I might not have any more friends anymore. And so, but I just thinking about that and I was like, but that fall that fear of rejection, that fear of like what it takes to be known by someone, which is opening up and being vulnerable and all of that, that never will go away. And so, you have to let Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say you have to learn that. Yeah.

[00:10:24]>> Totally. And you made me think back my undergrad was uh we did a lot of um adolescent development in my undergrad program. And I love studying Erikson's uh psychosocial stages the stages of psychosocial development. So, the stages we go through of how we view ourselves within society. It was fascinating. And he so in um a teenage adolescence, you're in identity versus confusion. And so, it's who am I, who am I not? And so, we're like we're constantly trying on new identities as high schoolers. So, that's why we change sports, we change musics, we change our clothing. And you're constantly trying to figure out who am I. And if you figure out who you are, then the young adult stage that you enter into is intimacy versus isolation.

[00:11:03]And that is is who I am lovable? Is who I am able to be known at a deep level?

[00:11:09]And then you kind of go on through the other stages. But one of the things he said is if you don't answer a stage's primary question, you may biologically move out of it, but not psychol- uh psychologically. And so, we've got a lot of people who are 30, 40, 50 years old who've never answered this question. So, they don't know who they are.

[00:11:27]So, they don't know how to be intimate and to be known and to go out past the surface levels, much less than go to the other levels. And so, I think some of the loneliness is we kind of get stunted and we don't take that that deep work of who am I? Yes. And and am I confident with who I am? I was meeting with someone the other day and he just said, Matt, uh the more comfortable you are with who you are, the more comfortable you'll be with people not liking who you are.

[00:11:52]And I was like, ooh.

[00:11:54]And like, that's been a part of my journey is like, I need to be comfortable with who I am. Yep. Because I need to know who I am to know if you will accept who I am. Cuz if I don't know who I am, then all of a sudden I'm like playing this game and I'm working to try to like woo you to be my friend versus resting in a friendship. And that's what's going to help combat that fear. When you know who you are, well, you're less afraid of how the person might respond when you seek that fully known. Like, you're cuz you're like, I know who I am. God knows who I am and that's okay. That's all I need. And it makes friendships life-giving versus work.

[00:12:27]I want to dissect a little bit of what I heard. So, I think initially you start out like, hey, the 500 hours. What I heard wasn't, hey, find an additional 500 hours to make friends. You already have 500 hours. Find the people that overlaps within life. And then really it's just a matter of am I willing to be vulnerable first? I think that's what I heard, too. By opening myself up to connection.

[00:12:48]Um and if we haven't sat enough with who we are to even know like, do I know who I am, it's going to be way harder to let other people know who we are. Yeah. And so, maybe let's start there cuz what I actually hear is is not a hey, this isn't a this is really a time problem.

[00:13:03]Uh this isn't a hey, I'm around physical people problem. This is a vulnerability problem. And so, And an additional vulnerability. Yeah. So, does it just start with hey, I've I could see some people almost being like, well, how do I figure out who I am? Do I have to isolate and like write it all down? Like talk with God? Um how how do we start there? Like for someone who may be stuck on that first one and they're like, I feel like I'm not connecting cuz I don't know who I am and that's affecting my ability to get vulnerable with the people around me. What would be a good spot to start? And I'd imagine maybe there's some you can figure it out as you go, but I doubt the solution is pull away and figure out who you are on your own.

[00:13:41]My mine went to a couple of different spots. Um man, one of my first counselors, I cannot remember the book that they had me read. Um but my counselor had me read this book and it says so, in Genesis uh 3, is that the creation account? Genesis 2, it says man was made in the image of God. Um and one of the things that this uh theologian wrestled with is you can only know God as much as you know yourself. And you can only know yourself as much as you know God. And so, it's almost a cyclical thing of like as you learn to know God, you discover who you are. But then as you discover who you are, you discover deeper levels of who God is. And that was like one of the first steps for me is like, okay, my identity has to be rooted in my understanding of God and his love of me and what he says about me. So, that's like the the spiritual aspect of it. And then the next aspect of it was I had to go through counseling to heal from the false identities that I had been carrying. The false identities of where I tried to win that girlfriend's approval, my father's approval, my boss's approval. And all of a sudden I realized I had attached all these other things to who I thought I was because I actually was trying to heal from this wound this inner this inner wound that as I went through counseling I was like, oh, I'm not that.

[00:14:54]Oh, I don't have to do that.

[00:14:56]I used to feel like I always had to be the life of the party. And if I wasn't the life of the party, I was not lovable. And then I had to realize, oh, I'm I'm actually not the clown. I just was trying to like to find approval. I used to feel like I had to be the one who resolved all the tension. You know, like I could just make the room laugh and make like take the tension out of the air. And I realized, oh, that's just childhood from growing up with a father who had an addiction and I had to take the stress out of the home to help mom be calm down. Like, oh, that was me playing that role. And counseling kind of freed me from that. It all of a sudden all of a sudden allowed myself to discover who God made me to be. And what was wild is as I healed, my relationship with God deepened. And as my relationship with God deepened, I healed more. So, my first step would be like you sometimes you just got to get some counseling help. And you got to dig into some of that healing work, discover who God says you are and who you are.

[00:15:45]And I think I also heard, too, like uh if you want to be known by others and know yourself, it starts with being known by God and who what he says about you.

[00:15:53]I was going to say I totally agree with healing from past wounds. Like, get really honest with yourself and ask yourself, what what are insecurities that may might relate to this feeling of loneliness and isolation? Um it reminds me of a story where when I was younger, I opened up to somebody about a struggle I was having with a friend. And basically the situation was this friend kind of dropped me like it's hot and I didn't understand why and I was like really hurt by it and really upset. And so, I was sharing about that with this person and the conversation went fine.

[00:16:19]Like, they let me talk through it. It felt helpful to just like get it out and it was good and that was it. Well, a couple weeks later, this person got upset with me for something and ended up saying something to me along the lines of, well, maybe if you weren't so blank, so-and-so would still want to be your friend. And that cut so deep because I did I like kind of put myself out there and shared this like vulnerable story of like I feel really hurt and here's what happened. And then they kind of threw it back in my face. And that like that really stuck with me to the point where I went a really long time not wanting to open up anyone because of that. And I thought that was like self-protection.

[00:16:58]Like, this is a good thing that I'm doing this cuz I'm protecting myself from feeling that hurt ever again. But I really wasn't protecting myself. I was just hurting myself because I was obviously that's I'm experiencing no connection then. I'm not known by anybody. And so, I think just like being honest with yourself and saying, what are things that may have happened to me in the past that I have never worked through. I actually haven't ever sought healing in that because that might be it might be 10 years ago and it might be what's holding you back now from connection. So, what I'm hearing is part of knowing ourselves starts with no being known by God.

[00:17:27]It also comes with some type of awareness, too, maybe of the things like, hey, this is just the home I grew up in and so here's some of my tendencies that may not be me, but I've learned it along the way. Or here's ways I was vulnerable in the past and it actually hurt me.

[00:17:39]And I think that's where vulnerability gets scary. Because I think we'd all agree like, hey, we we know we need that. We'd even say we want that.

[00:17:46]Um but it feels risky. And so, what can we do to build a real connection even when vulnerability feels like a risk for us right now? Yeah.

[00:17:56]You have to be willing to take the risk.

[00:17:58]Like, so often we want connection without that risk, but that literally doesn't exist. Like, it is a risk. It is and you there is a lack of control cuz you don't know how that person's going to respond when you open up. You don't know if they're going to understand. You don't know you you use discernment and wisdom and hope that they're a trusted person, but you you don't know. And so, I think to just name that like, sometimes this might flop. Like, it might not always work out. Like, I have I can think of examples right now where it's like, oh man, like I thought that that was like a safe place and a safe person and actually didn't go that well and that kind of hurt and that really didn't move me forward when I was feeling lonely in a lonely season. So, just like don't let that make you stop. Like, keep going, keep trying, keep seeking counsel and wisdom and like, all right, how do I continue to find those people in my life? Keep praying about it, but don't let that make you stop.

[00:18:49]>> And you made me think about like part of like developing intimate relationships is it's calculated risk that you learn from.

[00:18:57]Calculated risk that you learn from. So, you take a calculated risk, you expose, you you get vulnerable and then all of a sudden you learn from how did they respond? What did they just tell me?

[00:19:05]Okay, did I go too far too fast or or can I go another layer? And so, like we've all had that person who walks up and they're like, let me tell you about every trauma that's ever happened in my life. And I'll tell you my deepest darkest wounds. And you're like, [laughter] whoa, you terrify me. So, like don't be that person. But [clears throat] at the same point like, you do got to start like, hey, I'm going to peel back a layer right now. Like, how do they respect this? How do they honor this? And the thing that I had to learn is they're not rejecting me. They're telling me about their security.

[00:19:32]Like, whenever I would do that exposure moment of like, hey, let's let's let's try to go a layer deeper. If they retreated, they weren't rejecting me.

[00:19:41]And that's what I had to work through because at first I was like, oh crap, they don't like me. They think I'm weird. Like, they think I'm shameful or like, oh no, they're embarrassed by me.

[00:19:46]And what I was real- realizing what I had to realize is, oh, they're not capable of that yet.

[00:19:51]>> Yeah. They they don't have the capacity for my vulnerability. They they don't have the like they're not capable of being vulnerable. Oh, they're still guarded.

[00:19:59]>> Mhm. And so instead of it being so like rejection of me, it had to become a data point on them.

[00:20:04]>> Yeah. I remember Kevin Mayhan, our Mannheim campus pastor, he once told me he said, "Let people show you who they are."

[00:20:10]>> Yeah. And he's like, "Stop trying to change them. Just let them show you who they are."

[00:20:14]>> Yeah. And that was so freeing for me of like, "Oh, okay. I'm going to take this calculated risk. Like I'm not I'm not selling the farm on this one, but a calculated risk. Okay, show me who you are." Yeah. "Oh man, you showed me you're trustworthy. Okay, I'll I'll take another calculated risk. Show me who you are." Yeah. Like I one of my buddies that is one of my closest three right now, um I remember I took a calculated risk um whenever Pearl and I we'd had, you know, one of our weekly fights and it was like it was [laughter] the fight of the week and I knew it wasn't like a catastrophic one like we weren't getting like it wasn't like we weren't burning the house down, but it was one that I was still kind of ticked off about and I had some passion behind it and I remember one morning I just was like, "Dave, last night Pearl had just ticked me off." And I was so curious, how does he respond? Mhm. What does he side with Pearl? Does he side with me? Does he help me seek wisdom? Does he give me good guidance? Does he bash his own wife? Does he totally run from it? And just that little test on like something that was a waste of a fight, all of a sudden he showed me, "Oh, you're trustworthy for the bigger ones." But then when the day came that he he showed up and he goes, "Yeah, last night Morgan and I it was one of those nights."

[00:21:20]>> Mhm. And it was he reciprocated it. I was like, "Oh, okay. He's willing to" And that that was why it started to realize, "Oh, we can trust we can belay each other in this." So. Yeah, I think that's so good. I think what you're saying earlier too, like if somebody does reject you, that's it's a part of knowing who you are. It's that step you talked about that happens before. Like if you know who you are, you don't take that so personally. You don't take that You don't let that wound you to the point where you're never opening up again. So knowing who you are is so important. But also I can think of an example like that too where I opened up to someone and I it was kind of like you're saying like it definitely revealed an insecurity in them. And I was talking with someone about this and I was just, you know, like I that was kind of hurtful blah blah blah and they said, "That just teaches you that that you don't need to open up about that kind of stuff with that person and that's okay. And it's okay to have It doesn't mean I don't need to be that person's friend anymore, but it's okay to use wisdom in that and just to know, 'Okay, they might not they're not going to be that person and that's okay.' So there's just wisdom in there."

[00:22:14]But you know, I I think the danger is whenever we stop trying. Yeah.

[00:22:20]Because there is something in our makeup of how God made us to long for relationships, to long to be known. Like going back to that Genesis story, like he made us to be naked and unashamed, like to be fully known and to fully know.

[00:22:36]Sin is what covers us up. It's what hides us. It's what drives us into isolation. I mean, God himself is a triune God. Let's use a big theological word. Like God is in the Trinity. He's three in one. He's multifaceted. He's he's relational. And he made us for relationships. And so the fact that we're made in his image, like we we crave relationships. And so I would almost say if you no longer crave relationships, if you like isolation, that tells you more about the status of your heart. Tells you more about the wounds of your heart, the protection. And for those who find themselves there, like my heart breaks for them because that comes most often from a place of hurt and where they've had to protect themselves. Like calluses come because you got damaged. And so there's no judgment in that. It's more of a man, that's a great data point of oh God, do I need to Does my heart need to start healing?

[00:23:31]>> Yeah. So that I can come more in line with who you created me to be because he made us for relationships. And so. And so [clears throat] you might be thinking that like I'm just somebody who likes being alone. Like isolation doesn't bother me, but you are going to be surprised how much you come alive when you do experience community and relationships. Like because of what you're saying, God made you for that.

[00:23:50]And when you're living the way that God created you to live, that's what that's changes everything. And your community may be one person, two people. My community may be 20. That's okay. But you got to have somebody. Yeah. It's funny you said that because I asked you guys about introvert extrovert and I'd say I'm introverted, but I do appreciate being extrovert sometimes. And there are so many times like extroverted Josh will schedule plans and then it's introverted Josh who's driving to the place. Like, "Why did I do this? I should have canceled."

[00:24:21]And then afterwards you're like, "Oh, that was so fun. When am I doing that again?" And it fills you up. It reminds me that like there's probably someone who's listening to this too that may even say, "Hey, I'm introverted as well."

[00:24:31]But in those moments I'm always reminded like I don't always fully know what I actually need. And like God has said, "Hey, I need people." And I'm reminded of that when I bump into the fact that I'm I'm wrong and like I do need people and I walk away from those experiences being like, "When am I doing that again?

[00:24:44]I needed that more than I thought I could."

[00:24:46]And for some people, I think what I'm hearing you guys say too is like, "Hey, if you've been hurt, it's almost like when you you'll hear people they'll get in a a car accident and they'll have a good friend that's like, 'Hey, today you're getting in the car the day afterwards.'

[00:24:59]Like you don't have to drive it, but you got to get in the car or you're going to get afraid of driving later. And so I think for some people too it's like, 'Hey, you have been hurt, um but you need to keep opening up in some way. It could be a small sliver of something today. You may not be spilling out like, 'Hey, we had a fight last night. I'm going to test this person.' But you got to do something." And that's one of the things that I love about our groups model here. Um I love that we have like this spectrum of groups that [snorts] they have a start date and an end date.

[00:25:26]You know, like used to we used to do life groups and it's like you sign up for the life group and here is my life.

[00:25:31]So you know, it's like forever. Now it's like I got five weeks to decide if you're weird or not. [clears throat] >> [laughter] >> Like are we going to be talking or not?

[00:25:38]And if it's not, hey, the we're group's over. That was fun. See you. You know, it's only like five hours of your life.

[00:25:43]And then I love that like you can get a group where if you're like, "I don't want to get like super vulnerable, join a bowling group. Join a hiking group.

[00:25:49]Join a run group." Like let there be an activity that gives you an area to dip your toes in. And so I love that. It's like, "Man, you don't have to jump into the like let's sit around around in couches and bare our soul to each other." Like I found my friends by lifting weights with them.

[00:26:05]So that's a great practical example.

[00:26:06]Like, "Hey, find a group. Find something you naturally connect over."

[00:26:10]Are there any other practical tips you'd give somebody right now who's listening to this and they're like, "I know I need it. I know it's going to be uncomfortable, but I might not know where to start." What's one thing they could do today? Yeah. I feel like someone might be wondering, "Well, like how do I know like what type of person is safe to like try this with?" Cuz there is wisdom in that. Like you don't need to like pour out your heart to everyone. You don't And like what you're saying doesn't need to start there either. But I think honestly just look at their life and let like you said earlier, let them show you who they are.

[00:26:37]Honestly, are they somebody that the fruits of the spirit are pouring out of them? Like do you see that in them? Do you see love, joy, peace, peace, patience, all of them? And they are probably a good person to start with.

[00:26:46]Are they somebody that you see God you see God shining through them? You want to be more like them. Like there is wisdom in in who you try and take the first step with. So I think like hear that too. Don't just go with anyone.

[00:26:57]>> [laughter] >> And and to that point like I want to have acquaintances and friends who are at every stage of life, every stage of belief, every stage of fully following Jesus or still questioning him. Like I want exposure to all of those people.

[00:27:10]But the people that I bring the closest, the people that I get the most vulnerable with, I won't be I want it to be people who are are spurring me.

[00:27:17]Almost that Hebrews verse where it says spur one another on to good works and kindness. Like I want the ones who are like, man, they're right there nudging me forward to who I want to be. And so part of it is like, yeah, don't be judgmental, but use good judgment as Jason said before. Man, who's the people who pull us in close? The other thing that I thought about was was what you did. You put it on your calendar. Yeah.

[00:27:37]Like you put it on your calendar and you had held yourself accountable to it. And so I would say if you're like super isolated right now or lonely, put on your calendar every Thursday night and say like I've got a placeholder. And maybe that placeholder is I'm going to a group at the church. Maybe that placeholder is I'm going to show up to bowl at this place at this time or I'm going to go to this place to watch the game. Like put something on your calendar that just puts you around other people and just show up.

[00:28:03]>> Yeah.

[00:28:04]>> Like part of it is just show up. Just show up. I remember when I just got back into working out, my number one goal was to simply show up. I didn't care if I lifted a single weight. I just wanted to put my foot in the gym and that was a win and I'd pat myself on the back and say, "Matt, you're awesome." And then I'd go back to the car.

[00:28:19]Well, like >> [laughter] >> it's just like just show up. Just put it on the calendar and just show up and do it again and again and again and again.

[00:28:26]And and I think God knows the desires of your heart. He knows [clears throat] what you're looking for and God wants you to have friends. He wants you to have community. So God's with you looking for that.

[00:28:37]I think too like you might have to make some sacrifices to prioritize it. So like I have a group [clears throat] of mom friends friends that we've become so close over the years and one of the things that led to that closeness and that like feeling known by them is we would do late night mom hangouts or we'd put our kids to bed first and then we would go hang out together. And we'd be up till like midnight or later and we were so tired the next day. And when you're a mom with little babies and toddlers, that's the last thing you want is to feel tired cuz you're already exhausted. But it was so worth it. And so like one of those areas of your life it's like, "Yeah, I don't really want to do this. This isn't ideal. This doesn't fit my schedule perfectly, but I'm going to prioritize this because I know I need to." I'm making that choice. Yeah. If it's something we're aware that we need like any other thing in our life, health and fitness, learning, whatever it is, reading the Bible, like we will be intentional enough to put it on the calendar. I think that's what I'm hearing from that. So.

[00:29:27]Well, you guys have given us a bunch to work from today and I hope as you're listening there was something that stuck out to you. Maybe it was this idea that it takes 500 hours to make a friend. And don't let that overwhelm you. You've got 500 hours that you're living all the time. And maybe it involves looking for the people that overlap with your life naturally who are at the same stage of life that you can get to to Maybe it means going first, letting yourself be known in some way, and being okay when other people don't reciprocate. Sometimes finding our friends mean finding who won't be our friends in some ways, too.

[00:29:56]Maybe it means taking one step to be known after you've been hurt. It's like the car accident, you just got to get in the car today, let yourself be known in some way, and [music] not shut off from the world.

[00:30:06]Or finally, maybe it's just scheduling it, putting it on the calendar, sending a text, putting something in advance 2 weeks away, and then showing up when it matters most. We can all be known if we're willing to be intentional, >> [music] >> and if we're willing to let other people see us for who we really are.

[00:30:20]This has been the Life Changed Podcast.

[00:30:21]If you enjoyed today and found value out of it, hit like, hit subscribe, or send this to somebody in your life. And now that your life changed by Christ, go and live changed.