If God Is Real, Why Is the World So Messed Up? - Cliffe Kenchtle

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]If you're an atheist or if you're an agnostic, what is your solution to the problem of evil and death?

[00:00:07]My solution to the evil The solution.

[00:00:10]What is your solution to the problem of evil and death?

[00:00:13]If you're an atheist, if you're an agnostic, I mean, solution for everybody is just to be as good as possible. I mean, everybody should aim for being good.

[00:00:24]Um >> According to their own definition of good, right?

[00:00:26]>> Becoming their own definition of good, whether it's objective good from God or objective good from another source.

[00:00:33]Well, remember the atheist or an agnostic says either there is no God or I don't know whether there is a God.

[00:00:37]Yeah.

[00:00:38]So, good is not defined by God if you're an atheist. Yeah. If you're an atheist, good is defined by your culture or by the power leader by yourself or by majority opinion. It could be just defined as good as just good just exists.

[00:00:52]Whether God or not.

[00:00:54]How can good just exist?

[00:00:57]Good Good could possibly Cuz I I don't know if there's a God or not. Mhm. Um but I mean, if there is such a thing as a a God that is out of time, like that is eternal, why can't other concepts like good just be out of time and eternal, just a thing that exists like God?

[00:01:16]Okay.

[00:01:18]Sir, good is an intangible value. You cannot see good.

[00:01:23]You can't see God either. You can Exactly. [laughter] You cannot measure good, right?

[00:01:27]>> measure God.

[00:01:29]It could exist >> eternally just like It could just be God.

[00:01:33]It could just be God It could not be just God. It could just be the existence of good and evil that it just exists in the world. But given a tri-omni God who's all powerful and all caring, why evil and suffering exists Right.

[00:01:44]>> doesn't make sense to me. Okay, good. I And we're we're Hang with me and we'll go. If he says powerful and caring as he says he is, then why does >> goodness, there has to be a mind.

[00:01:54]This tree has no understanding of good.

[00:01:57]This cement has no understanding of good.

[00:02:00]See, good good can't just exist.

[00:02:03]Because goodness requires definition, and it's an intangible value that you can't measure.

[00:02:09]You can't grab goodness.

[00:02:11]Which means you got to have a mind involved in defining what is good.

[00:02:16]>> If we're going by that definition, then what what is defining God? Okay, we'll get to that.

[00:02:21]We'll get to that. All the arguments you could give for God could also go for good just as a general concept.

[00:02:29]It could just exist eternally out of time unmeasurable.

[00:02:33]No, sir. That's not fair.

[00:02:35]>> [laughter] >> If If God exists, God doesn't depend on anybody.

[00:02:41]If goodness as an intangible value exists, it depends on a mind to define it.

[00:02:48]>> be an an intangible intangible.

[00:02:50]Obviously.

[00:02:51]It could like coming from a different viewpoint outside of trying to see where you know, the reasoning for things, you could say that it could be what we define as God society like societally could just be the existence of just that good in the same context of eternal and timeless and all of that like If there is no God, goodness is not eternal because goodness demands a mind to define it.

[00:03:20]Which means Then in giving that same argument, then what mind defines God?

[00:03:25]There would be something above him if something has to make him or define him or No, God can be an eternal being without beginning, without end.

[00:03:35]I don't think you see my point cuz good just goodness could be the same thing.

[00:03:39]>> You're not listening, sir. You're giving goodness a different definition. No, sir. You're not listening to me, and I don't appreciate it.

[00:03:45]I've told you flat out, and I think you're smart enough to get this point.

[00:03:49]Goodness defined demands some mind to define it.

[00:03:54]The tree, the cement has no ability to understand goodness.

[00:04:01]You've got to have a mind.

[00:04:04]Do you see that or do you disagree with me?

[00:04:06]I I I think we're coming to different definitions of good because then like there's still Outside of that though, given your definition of good, still why does evil suffering exist?

[00:04:17]>> my definition of good, your definition of good. I'm just saying given yours, why does evil suffering exist?

[00:04:23]>> All right, we'll get All right, we'll move on from that, okay?

[00:04:26]But sir, I got a real problem with your thinking, all right? I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

[00:04:32]That's not fair.

[00:04:33]You know very well that I've cornered you totally intellectually.

[00:04:39]You know very well that you cannot have goodness without some type of mind to create and define it. It's impossible.

[00:04:48]This does not define goodness. That does not define goodness. And that camera does not define goodness. And your glasses do not define goodness. Neither does your shirt, your pants, or your sneakers.

[00:05:00]You've got to have a mind to define goodness.

[00:05:04]Sir, you have no option intellectually.

[00:05:07]This has nothing to do with God, it has nothing to do with Jesus. It has to do with simply thinking fairly.

[00:05:13]All right, moving on to the next. Okay, but your point is, okay, but if this good God exists, why is there evil and suffering?

[00:05:22]It's real simple, sir. If an all-powerful God chooses to partially limit his power by giving you a free will, by giving me a free will, then if I go up to her, slap her in the face, and say, "God made me do it." What am I?

[00:05:38]A liar, a total liar.

[00:05:41]God gave me a hand for a purpose, to respect this woman, to love this woman.

[00:05:46]But because I have a free will, I don't have to respect her, I don't have to love her, I can steal her backpack, I can smack her around, I can abuse her.

[00:05:54]And if anybody says, "God made me do it." they are a liar.

[00:06:01]Flat out.

[00:06:03]So, why does evil exist? Evil exists because God limited his power, he's all powerful, but he limited his power by choosing to give her free will, me a free will, all of us a free will. Does that make any sense?

[00:06:20]It kind of answers it for humanity and the suffering also and suffering also exists, it's just in the animals. Good.

[00:06:26]>> Why does a zebra deserve to get his throat crushed to death by a lion? Like, how is that caring or just like coming from a Christian standpoint, we have sinned as humans coming from the Christian standpoint, so we are, you know, we have free will and we can make mistakes and all of that. Yep.

[00:06:43]>> But, why not why have animals just, you know, not have their perfect little ecosystem where nothing has to suffer and only humans suffer?

[00:06:51]>> Very good.

[00:06:52]Now we're thinking, all right? So, Genesis chapters 1 and 2, God creates a good world. God created this and God saw that it was good. God created that and God saw that it was good. God created this and God sees it's good. So, when God created he did a good job. No evil.

[00:07:09]But, Genesis chapter 3 records how human beings rebel against God. And one of the consequences of human beings telling God, "Get lost.

[00:07:19]Get out of here." is God honors our free will, takes a step back from planet Earth, and nature unravels.

[00:07:27]And so, you're absolutely correct, sir.

[00:07:29]Animals suffer.

[00:07:31]I have suffered. We all will suffer. Not because God is sicking us, but because God created a world with free will, people with free will, we chose them to tell him to get out. When he gets out So Chaos fills the gap. Genetic breakdown, death occur. Because so because humans decided to reject God, God punished the animals.

[00:07:56]One of the consequences >> and unjust given a triune God. No, it's a it's an issue of consequences.

[00:08:02]Who put Texas State together? Did they do it last summer?

[00:08:04]>> Well, the consequence should go to the humans that did it. You don't punish someone else for somebody else's misdoing.

[00:08:10]>> That would be a nice way for things to happen. But unfortunately, because I have free will if you're a husband and I smack you around it might affect how you treat your wife when you go home tonight.

[00:08:23]Might affect how you treat your kids when you go home tonight.

[00:08:26]You see, for me to think that well, I've got free will and it's just me and it's just you and there no consequences to where the way I exercise my free will that's a lie. Total lie.

[00:08:36]>> Well, how I would interact with animals is one thing, but how animals should interact with each other.

[00:08:41]Why is suffering exist between animals, not from humans to animals, but between animals suffering exists. Why are they being punished for suffering between themselves if they didn't do anything wrong? Correct. You're absolutely correct. They didn't do anything wrong.

[00:08:55]The same way little babies that I have to bury didn't do anything wrong.

[00:09:02]But they're born into an unfair world where birth defects occur and so babies die. Not because they've done something wrong. They have not done anything wrong.

[00:09:13]But they are born into an unfair, unjust, messed up world.

[00:09:21]Thanks for raising those issues. Yes, ma'am. They're also born with original sin though, which >> Okay, what does that mean?

[00:09:27]Which >> My good Catholic friend, what does that mean?

[00:09:30]Um it means as a consequence of Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a consequence of Adam and Eve eating the apple, all the following children would be born with this original sin that would have been an effect of mankind previously.

[00:09:45]Correct?

[00:09:45]>> Okay.

[00:09:46]Maybe.

[00:09:47]And um at least also the way I was brought up was that um if you were not baptized or had your original sin reversed, you would not be able to make it to heaven. Yeah, I totally disagree with that. I don't think there's any biblical basis for that. But wouldn't like original sin be the spiritual birth defect? Good.

[00:10:09]Ooh, now I think we're on to something here. [laughter] Okay. So, what on earth is original sin?

[00:10:16]Original sin is simply this.

[00:10:18]I am born with a readiness to sin factor.

[00:10:22]Doesn't mean that everything I do is evil. My atheist friends do a lot of good. They've got a conscience.

[00:10:27]But all of us have sinned. Every atheist, every agnostic, every Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, we all have sinned.

[00:10:33]Part of the reason we have sinned is because we're born with a readiness to sin factor.

[00:10:39]Let me give you an example.

[00:10:41]When I was 4 years old, I was in a sandbox playing, and my friend had the audacity to hurt me.

[00:10:49]So, very naturally, I took the up the metal truck, and I said, "Really?" Bam.

[00:10:55]Never seen that behavior modeled before, but I very naturally took up the metal truck, slammed it on my playmate's head, and it wasn't pretty.

[00:11:06]I am a sinner.

[00:11:08]That's my son over there walking this way.

[00:11:11]He used to sit on a baby chair.

[00:11:13]I would put a glass of grape juice in front of him, and I would say, "Stewart, do not knock this glass of grape juice off this tray."

[00:11:22]And with a smile from this ear to this ear, he would backhand >> [laughter] >> that glass of grape juice off the tray.

[00:11:29]He was born a sinner, same way as old man, me, was born a sinner.

[00:11:34]Now, what does that mean? It means we have a readiness to sin factor.

[00:11:41]But, we cannot blame our sinful nature for what we do, because we still have a free will.

[00:11:49]So, if I slap her and you say, "Wait a second, Cliff, what did you just do to her?

[00:11:54]Why'd you do it?" And I say, "Cuz of my sinful nature." That's a cop-out.

[00:11:58]Cuz I still have a will.

[00:12:00]And see, here's the challenge. The challenge for me is to overcome my sinful nature with my will and make responsible decisions.