Huge Debate: Should Fathers Be In The Delivery Room? - Richard Reeves

本站添加: 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]What happened with this debate between Scott Galloway and Derek Thompson?

[00:00:04]>> Did you see it?

[00:00:04]>> I didn't know that this happened.

[00:00:06]>> Oh, you didn't see it? Okay. No. Well, it kind of went partly because I know them both and Scott's on our advisory board as I mentioned. Um, so Derek Thompson came back from paternity leave and it was actually the first thing he did uh was go on Scott Gallery's podcast. I think he said it's not just like the first day back, it's the first hour back. And he'd been, I think, on paternity to leave for a couple of months. And that just triggered this debate where Scott said, uh, you're just back from paternity to leave. How, you know, how are you doing? I'm finding my way back. I won't be as coherent as usual. Of course, Derek was incredibly coherent. Um, uh, and Scott just said, well, honestly, I don't understand this whole paternity leave thing or even why men should go to the births. I don't think men should be at the births. It's disgusting. Uh, the men should be outside smoking cigarettes like the old days. and then they should go back to work. Um, I just think it's ridiculous, basically. And Derek was like, uh, well, actually men do need to take time time off to kind of be with their kids because otherwise like women are the only ones doing it and you'll have gender inequality in the workplace, right? What I found interesting about that, I haven't like said anything about this publicly yet, but I think they were both wrong.

[00:01:12]I think that Scott was wrong in suggesting that men and dads are of no use in the kind of early months. They are of a different use to moms for sure, but they are very often the main aloe parent now, right? They're very often the kind of one that's around and they very often are the one that's like getting stuff done. They're like, have you heard of the owl monkeys or like the best dads in the in the natural world apparently? No. Owl monkeys, right?

[00:01:38]where the dads are kind of around all the time and basically moms are doing the breastfeeding or nurturing. Dads are doing everything else, right? Dad is getting [ __ ] done, right? He's getting the food, he's getting organizing, right? He's around them, but he's still around them, right? That's kind of how it is. I think that was certainly my experience, right? So, you're not going to you can't do what mom's doing >> at that point. You also don't feel the same way that mom does about the baby.

[00:01:57]You just can't, right? Just just can't.

[00:01:59]You're not wired to at that point.

[00:02:01]>> Um, so you're still useful. So, Scott was wrong about that. Um, but I didn't like the way Derek framed this as like men should take time off so that women aren't the only ones taking time off so that we can get close the gender pay gap. He he framed it as a gender equity issue, right? Okay.

[00:02:18]>> And I I my view is dads should actually be able to take time off and should take time off their kids not just when they're young, etc. Not because they can do what moms do, nor in support of gender equality, but because dads are awesome and kids are awesome and kids do really well with their dads around them, right? So, I don't I I don't I don't want to be the deputy, the kind of malfunctioning mom, the kind of oh, if only you could be a mom. Like, no, no, dads are amazing. And so, I'm I'm really pushing for this idea that kind of fell between those two stools. So, like the old idea of like, dads, you should go back to work, smoke a cigar, have a cigar. I think he meant cigar actually, but have a cigar, a whiskey, back to work. And Derek Sing is like, "No, if you're a good gender egalitarian, you've got to take time off."

[00:02:59]>> Yeah.

[00:03:00]>> Right. Even if you hate it and you suck at it, right? Because that's the way to get gender equality. I'm like, "Guys, guys, what about just saying >> dads are cool."

[00:03:08]>> And being a dad and the way dads are with their kids, a bit different to moms on average in many ways. Amazing. So I want like a again a pro- dad argument rather than a gender equality argument for fathering. Should dads be in the birthing room? The evidence and actually interesting Darby Saxby who I mentioned earlier dad brain she did write a response to to this kind of thing which people can find and she kind rightly pointed out that actually the evidence on how the unprecedented trial of dads being in the birthing room uh is going is really mixed. We don't know. And actually kind of sometimes in surveys afterwards like moms have mixed feelings about it. If the birth doesn't go well, I think you talk to animation about this can be quite traumatizing for the dad.

[00:03:51]So I think look, I'm I might get in trouble for saying this now, but I think we have to be honest. The evidence is a little bit mixed. And I think it shouldn't it shouldn't be like it shouldn't be shamed for doing it or shamed for not doing it. And moms, by the way, should also feel like if they feel that they'll be better off with their mom or their friend or kind of somebody else, they should feel okay saying that to their partner too for the actual birth, right?

[00:04:13]>> Neither are obliged to >> I Yeah, I just sort of because as Darby points out, we've never done this before, right? This is >> How long have men been in the birthing room?

[00:04:21]>> About 30, 40 years. I shared this with my with my wife. I said, "Did things blew up and she said, "Oh, Scott says that men shouldn't even be in the birthing room." She said, "Yeah, I probably wish you hadn't been." What? I said, "What?" It's like 25 years later.

[00:04:38]I thought, "What?" Yeah. I thought I was really What about all of my words of encouragement?

[00:04:43]>> You were more harm than good. You did more harm than good. I mean, I mean, I don't I haven't I'm now sort of litigating something personal. We just need to go back to it. But there are pros and cons, but but I honestly think like it's not it wasn't I mean, the real truth is it was a very hot day and I'd ordered a fan because I knew it was going to be hot, but I didn't realize the fan wasn't made. So, I opened the box and she went into labor. She went into labor.

[00:05:03]She's in labor. She's in labor. And I'm shouting from the other I go into the other room, right? She's having contractions. At home, right? And um and I said, "Uh, do you know where a Phillips screwdriver?

[00:05:18]She says, she said, I don't need a Phillips screwdriver to have a baby."

[00:05:22]I'm like, "No, but I need a Phillips screwdriver to make the fan."

[00:05:28]I'm not great at DIY anyway to be honest, right? So So like I said, do you know where it is? She's like dress I'm in the other room and I'm trying like this huge pressure now, right? This is like trying to make I'm trying to make it and she's like forget the [ __ ] fan. Just like I'm having the I'm having the baby.

[00:05:47]I'm having the baby. Fan or no fan, the baby's coming. I'm nearly done. I'm nearly done. I'm I'm on like I'm on like step seven with the Philips screw. So I you know I didn't I wasn't amazing from that point of view. So I think that the fan thing it ja about my view to be honest to be honest and then uh anyway the other one I I'm all in now the other one I so was in the birthing pool right cuz I was very into that >> and the birthing pool and we'd been to one of these very I yeah I think I can share this we've been to this very very like >> progressively like midwifey thing right about birthing a home and if you have it in the pool that's kind of great which is good by the I mean, I'm I think the whole like overmedicalization of child birthing like I'm I'm I'm really persuaded by that argument now that actually doing it more naturally is really good. So, I'm only misunderstood here.

[00:06:36]>> Put in the pool. But she said, "But guys, just can I just say something to you?" She said, "Like it's quite it can get quite murky in there. Can't see it."

[00:06:43]All right. Which is true. Um and she said, "And so the only thing I'll say is if you get in the pool with your partner to support them, right, put something on. Put some swimming trunks on." She said, "Because there have been occasions when I've seen something spherical and hairy in the water and I've assumed that it's the baby's head crowning and I've gone in to help it and it wasn't the baby's head crowning. It was the dad's testicle." And so I've grabbed him by the bollocks.

[00:07:10]Right. Right. And literally every guy in the room is like [ __ ] around.

[00:07:16]So this is the other child, right? So So this time she's having a baby. She's like, "You want to get in and rub my back and do so? Cool. I'm here for you, honey. And then I go into the other room and then I'm shouting out, "Where are my swimming?" Like, "What are you talking about? I need my swimmers." She's like, "I don't know where they are. I can't find them slamming open." And the midwife is like, "For God's sake. She's having the baby. Get in the pool. I don't care. I don't care." I said, "It's not about modesty." I said, "The lady at the thing, the lady at the Lamar's class." She said, "You got to you've got to wear swimming trunks." I said, "I'm not getting in there without so anyway." So my main advice and then I guess you know the other one on the other trial was like you get to cut the cord and I was terrible about it. I couldn't cut it. I was hacking through it. I thought you'd have these massive shears you know be like no like like opening up a new [ __ ] city hall. It's this tiny little pair of scissors and you're trying to hack through it. It's really gristly. Took me ages and near the end crying. I'll do it. And to this day, my eldest son has got this really weird belly button and he blames me for it because, you know, so so all the fathers out there, key key items if you are going to be with a Phillips fan driver or make pre-make the fan or have a Phillips screwdriver, a really good pair of scissors cuz the ones they give you are crap and swimming trunks >> and then you'll be fine. [ __ ] me. Oh god. Before we continue, most people in their 30s are still training hard. Their protein is dialed in. They sleep better than they did in their 20s. Discipline is not the issue, but recovery feels somewhat different. Strength gains take a little longer. The margin for error starts to shrink. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of timeline. You see, mitochondria are the energy producers inside of your muscle cells. As they weaken with age, your ability to generate power and recover effectively changes even if your habits stay strong.

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