Law Enforcement & Emergency Management Committee 5-13-26

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[00:00:05]Make a note we cast the unanimous ballot for >> Are there any other nominations?

[00:00:11][laughter] >> I still have to do it three times.

[00:00:13]>> No, you don't. You don't have to do it three times anyway. That's how Yes.

[00:00:18]Google.

[00:00:23]>> It is a It's a very common myth and sometimes it's a recommended practice.

[00:00:28]you don't have to do it. So, so you're if everybody is okay with proceeding forward, I I believe there was a a motion for a unanimous ballot.

[00:00:41]Was there a second?

[00:00:42]>> Second.

[00:00:43]>> And then there could be a vote on it.

[00:00:45]>> Okay. All in favor signify by saying I.

[00:00:48]>> I carried. Congratulations.

[00:00:56]>> Nominations for vice chair.

[00:00:59]I would nominate John Austin.

[00:01:06][clears throat] >> I'll second.

[00:01:09]>> Let's move that by unanimous then.

[00:01:12]>> All those in favor signify.

[00:01:14]>> We need a second if that's a motion.

[00:01:16]I'll second that. Thank you.

[00:01:17]>> Oh, she did. Yeah. Well, if it's close for unanimous.

[00:01:20]>> Oh, okay.

[00:01:21]>> I'll second.

[00:01:23]>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

[00:01:26]I >> opposed.

[00:01:29]All right. Third item is >> Thank you. Third item is for secretary, >> which >> I'll second.

[00:01:44]>> I'll move by unanimous ballot.

[00:01:46][laughter] >> Susan saw that from yesterday.

[00:01:49]>> I did see that yesterday. We still need a second on a motion.

[00:01:53]>> Second.

[00:01:57]And you voted to close nominations.

[00:01:58]Also, all those in favor signify by saying I.

[00:02:02]>> I.

[00:02:03]>> I.

[00:02:04]>> Motion carries.

[00:02:09]>> Okay, we needed uh a motion to adopt the eight item agenda.

[00:02:18]>> 12 there, isn't it?

[00:02:24]No, but he might not have amended.

[00:02:26]>> I do not. It's not on the >> It's not on the computer.

[00:02:30]>> Yes. Yeah. You'd have to go back out agenda that was posted yesterday.

[00:02:35]>> Thank you.

[00:02:42]>> Okay. A motion to adopt the 12 item agenda.

[00:02:46]>> So move.

[00:02:48]>> Is there a second? Second. All those in favor signify by saying I.

[00:02:52]>> I.

[00:02:53]>> Opposed.

[00:02:55]And uh as far as adoption of prior meeting, none were received.

[00:03:04]>> February 11th one. And then we do have the one for April 8th.

[00:03:08]>> I'm sorry.

[00:03:09]>> February 11th we still have not received but the April 8th we did was in your packets.

[00:03:14]>> April 8th. Okay. So, adoption of the April 8th minutes.

[00:03:22]>> Motion [clears throat] to adopt.

[00:03:23]>> Motion.

[00:03:25]>> Second.

[00:03:26]>> Second.

[00:03:28]>> Any discussion on those minutes?

[00:03:31]>> All in favor of signify by saying I.

[00:03:34]>> I.

[00:03:35]>> Opposed?

[00:03:36]>> Carried. Public comment period.

[00:03:39]We are not on the air, I'm assuming.

[00:03:42]>> No, we are televised today. We are on air though.

[00:03:45]>> We're not on air. It's just >> not on air.

[00:03:48]>> Okay. So, if anybody in attendance have anything that they want to comment on?

[00:03:56]If not, we will continue on with our agenda. And if we do have anybody call in, we can always stop and take the call. So, item seven, additional judicial branch request. Judge Radkkey.

[00:04:11]>> Well, hi Judge. [laughter] I'm Ashley Bird, judge's assistant. Um I'm actually here. He asked me to come.

[00:04:19]Unfortunately, the judge is not able to come today. Um his mother is in the hospital. I'm >> going to pass this week. So, um he is asking that we please push this out a month. Okay.

[00:04:29]>> To next month's agenda >> and then the plan is to go to the full county board as well next month on this agenda item. So, >> Okay.

[00:04:38]>> Okay.

[00:04:39]>> Sounds great. Thank you.

[00:04:40]>> Thank you.

[00:04:41]>> Thank you.

[00:04:41]>> Do we need a motion? We do. So, we need a motion to postpone this to next month.

[00:04:45]>> I'll make the motion to postpone.

[00:04:47]>> I'll second it.

[00:04:51]>> Thank you.

[00:04:56]>> And then just a vote.

[00:04:58]>> We don't need to take a vote on that, do we?

[00:05:00]>> We do.

[00:05:00]>> We do. Okay. All those in favor signify by saying I.

[00:05:03]>> I. Opposed. [snorts] >> That will be moved to next month. Item eight, flocked cameras, Andy Parish.

[00:05:11]Thank you. Thank you for that. I'm going to figure out how to share my screen here. PowerPoint didn't work. I can't get it to work on my county computer, so I'm using my personal computer for that reason. Um, do we know how to share the screen here? Normally, there's a button.

[00:05:26]>> Are you on Zoom?

[00:05:27]>> I am. Yeah, it's another video.

[00:05:44]Um >> maybe under video here.

[00:05:51]>> I uh we have anyone from it?

[00:05:54]>> Oh, there we go. There we go.

[00:05:58]and we're going to do so I um many of you know um I'm pretty passionate about this issue of flock safety and for good reason and I'm not even going to discuss today what flock does. I'm not even going to show you what it does. I want to focus on process since that seems to be what everyone keeps telling me. I thought I would review the process in which these went up and I have some significant questions. I'm more than likely going to end up withdrawing my resolution at the end of this so that I can confer with the chair on what these next steps will be. But I want to go through some of this with you and and tell you what I've found and again ask questions. So, um I uh obsess about this because that's part of just who I am. That's how I I solve puzzles. That's what I like to do. And um I found six glaring issues that I think needs to be brought to the board's attention. Number one, when it came to flock safety, the sheriff signed a contract that he never had power to sign. I know that people will say um it was implied by approval of money, but that's not the way the law works here.

[00:07:11]We actually have to display it and show the contract and put it up for public scrutiny, which never happened. Then, ironically, I'd asked for someone to bring me the resolution, and I hope they have it. Susan, did you bring it?

[00:07:25]>> Um, I didn't get a question.

[00:07:27]>> Okay. There's no resol Thank you.

[00:07:29]>> That you I know typically if you're going to introduce the resolution, you need to make sure that >> I wasn't introducing a resolution. I mean the resolution where the where the county the law enforcement county voted to fund this.

[00:07:41]>> So, the res the request that you asked over this weekend.

[00:07:45]>> Yeah. Did Yes. I mean, I I I went online. It's not there. So, I'm I'm looking for the resolution where the board voted to actually approve money for flax safety.

[00:07:53]>> Okay.

[00:07:54]>> It's it it doesn't exist. I I've searched at least on the public records.

[00:07:58]It doesn't exist. It was on the open records for an update to exactly what the open records said.

[00:08:08]We also have intergovernmental agreements that need to be signed with 173 law enforcement agencies that the sheriff granted access to in the state of Wisconsin. Meaning anyone who we grant access to, so Oshkosh Police, they took theirs down. Madison, they also took theirs down. But when they had it, we never had an agreement, a data sharing agreement, a data storage agreement. We never had anything public with them agreeing to cooperate at all.

[00:08:38]The Gailsville City Council never voted to put the cameras up. And here's where it gets to be really problematic, especially in Gailsville.

[00:08:47]If you read the letter that the sheriff asked the mayor to approve, and I didn't catch this till about 2:00 in the morning last night, he actually granted access to a private company to public property without ever notifying the council. It actually says, "Flock safety needs your permission for this poll." And I thought that was really weird. Not the county, not the sheriff, not the law, flock safety. That got me digging even more.

[00:09:16]And I I I kind of wish I wouldn't have.

[00:09:19]How do I go to the next one here?

[00:09:22]There we go. So, in Wisconsin, and backed up by recent case law, when I said that the sheriff has no authority to sign this contract, as of 2009, there was a court ruling that confirmed it. He can only handle traditional law enforcement duties. Purchasing equipment, the court said, is a budgetary matter and that belongs to the board.

[00:09:46]Brown County, it was a Wisconsin court ruling 2009.

[00:09:50]So, not only is it in statute that the sheriff can't sign the contract, it's backed up by case law as of 2009.

[00:10:00]The contract spent $20,000 of public money and there's no record of a vote at all by the board to spend this money. And that got me digging even further.

[00:10:14]On September 11th, the sheriff certainly did bring it up, but we're big on open meetings and making sure that um we don't violate those. Look at look at the agenda itself. Flock update, not potential purchase, not potential action, just block update.

[00:10:31]And again, all of that power belongs to this board. Here's where I'm really angry and have some questions that I will yield my time and and have them answered. An open records request shows this.

[00:10:46]Brett Simon Seammonson, the sheriff at the time, emailed the county administrator. The LE committee members told me the budget passed yesterday, pretty much as presented. But I wanted to hear from you before I moved on with my flock camera project. Of the 1,894 line items in the county budget, how many times do you think flock, camera, ALPR, or surveillance was mentioned?

[00:11:10]Zero times.

[00:11:14]Zero times.

[00:11:16]So, it gets moved. I want you to know the date. November 13, 2024. Let's go over. Then it says, "Carol, can you pay this invoice?" Cheryl says, "Sounds good. Reach out to them. Send me a W9.

[00:11:30]They're a new vendor. This is January.

[00:11:32]Wait till you see when the contract was signed.

[00:11:36]Completely different year."

[00:11:39]So, now we get to the real question. I don't know what this means. So, I'm going to ask Rebecca or Susan. It says there's an email. The sheriff flock cameras that need to be added to this yet. I'll take a look at the budget tomorrow so we can get it added. That was almost a year after the cameras went up.

[00:11:57]Almost a year.

[00:12:00]And then there's another email. Amy, can you please change flock cameras can be removed from sheriff admin budget investigator, which is where they were put in. So the board, even the board would never know. Remove 20,500 or $20,50 for flot cameras and place it in chip. That's the capital improvement.

[00:12:21]Rebecca, what gave what what authority do you have to take [snorts] capital improvement money and allocate it to a project for law enforcement?

[00:12:41]>> I'm I'm not responding at this point.

[00:12:44]>> Why wouldn't you? It's right here.

[00:12:47]>> Is this an annual thing? every two years.

[00:12:51]>> Every two years.

[00:12:52]>> All right. So now [clears throat] we have now we have capital improvement funds moved against the board's knowledge and the log in is very clear.

[00:13:04]Only capital improvement funds can be approved by the board. You all approved capital improvement funds with specific reasons at a public request in a public meeting and we just decided to say, "Matt, we're going to move it cuz we got to pay for this."

[00:13:22]Not fun. Not okay.

[00:13:25]So, now it gets even better. The sheriff sends an email to match up with everything that requests them to manipulate the date on the invoice to match whatever's being paid and how it's being paid. You cannot back date invoices. You can't ask a vendor to change invoices after you've received a product. Doesn't seem right to me.

[00:13:53]It was put under investigator, no explanation, and somehow the capital improvement funds paid for it. And the board still hasn't voted.

[00:14:07]This is really problematic, which is why I'm going to withdraw my motion because I'm going to have to speak with the chair because I'm going to ask that we bring in outside counsel to investigate how the hell this happened.

[00:14:21]This is not okay and nobody's refuting it. Go ahead if you want to. You look at where it was put in under the budget originally when the sheriff said put it under the line item.

[00:14:32]17,900 goes in there. 17,900 wasn't the contract. So, it was 14 something plus some change and some other things.

[00:14:41]The only three recommendations that could be in there are it was listed as SWAT, radar, video camera, but not flock.

[00:14:50]Now, if I'm the county board and I see video camera, and radar, I'm going to approve that. You know why I'm going to approve that? Because the police need to record things. They need to tell children or they need to tape children.

[00:15:05]They need to hear stories. They need to hear all sorts of things. It's funny that flock and ALPR out of all 1,894 line item items on this budget is not mentioned once.

[00:15:20]Here's where it gets really fun and I hope everyone in America who dislikes flock is watching because all of these letters that the sheriff sent to get approved, they're all formed. They all match. Here's something. Tell me when you see it. to apply for a utility pole permit.

[00:15:37]Says the company is Flax Safety. Look at who signed it. As a representative of that company, it says I am acting as an agent of that company.

[00:15:52]The sheriff signed it.

[00:15:55]Approved his own permit.

[00:16:00]Here's the thing. Flock Safety's letter to the sheriff or to the to Gailsville says, "We need Gailville's permission to put this up. Not the county's permission, not law enforcement, not the people. We need Gailsville to put Flock up." So, guess what happens?

[00:16:16]Flock now has a lease. The mayor of Gailsville has now entered a formal lease with a private company without a single public boat.

[00:16:26]And and why is it important that the utility is in their name? Because now the way flock works if I don't subscribe to a service like free form which is people search let's say we don't subscribe to that flock gives permission to anybody who subscribes to that nationwide so even if we don't subscribe to it they do but who owns the camera who owns the poll at this point safety does without a single vote that's how many intergovernmental agreements we have that's how many data sharing agreements we up. That's how many guarantees we have that our citizens data is going to be deleted after a certain period of time. We have zero.

[00:17:09]It's never been on this common council's agenda. Never been on the board's agenda. Never been on the common council's agenda.

[00:17:16]The cameras went live in April with no vote from anyone.

[00:17:21]The public was never told of this.

[00:17:24]And I've got money going from a chip from capital improvement projects to pay for flock cameras.

[00:17:33]And I've got the sheriff acting as a representative. There's nothing legal about these how they went up. Not a thing.

[00:17:42]Here's the letter from sheriff to Mayor Thatcher. In order to put the camera on the pole, flock safety needs written permission from the pole owner. The city of Gailville in this case. If you grant such permission, please respond accordingly with a written letter of authorization.

[00:18:00]The sheriff again is acting as an agent for flack safety.

[00:18:05]I don't believe that Sheriff Simmonson even knew that this was happening to him. I believe he is a good man. I believe he tried to follow this all correctly. I believe he was following their lead. I believe everything that his heart was in the right place.

[00:18:17]I do not question that whatsoever, but we do have a process for the public to know.

[00:18:25]So, there it is. Flock safety needs written permission, not the county.

[00:18:30]Who owns that pole now? And who owns that camera? You see that the the sheriff applied for the permit under Flock Safety's name? You see that Flock Safety was granted permission. Not once was the county granted permission.

[00:18:45]I started screaming about this a while ago. February 2nd, I emailed the district attorney because I didn't even know where to go. I didn't know who to go to. He wrote back and I agree with him. This wasn't his purview.

[00:18:58]I included a bunch of supporting documents, eight of them. He said to email corporation council. So I did. And corporation council, rightly so. I was not elected at the time. Rightly so, Susan said that her job is to represent the county. That left me. So, I filed a notice of claim with Gailville. They denied my notice of claim, saying that the mayor had no authority to enter into an agreement without a public vote to give a private company public property.

[00:19:30]He put it up. They denied my claim.

[00:19:35]Surprisingly, that's all right. I've got a case I can file and I've got plenty of case law behind it if I need to. I'm not against cops and I'm not against this. I am against the technology. I'm not against cops and I'm I'm for making sure the process is done right. I got mocked pretty well for trying to do basically a very non I even said in the meeting non-binding non-official recommendation from the board. I was told that was a violation of open meeting laws to ask for a which it is.

[00:20:10][clears throat] It is. Think of that. A non-binding vote. The first vote this county would have ever have taken on flock safety.

[00:20:20]Nonbinding. I can't do it.

[00:20:23]I really want to know how the chip funds got used. So, when you find out, let me know.

[00:20:29]These are the emails saying that that they Susan and and John answered correctly.

[00:20:37]Here's the whole timeline. Sheriff starts looking at flock cameras in August.

[00:20:42]The sheriff brings it up at a committee meeting and then he signs a $20,000 contract without a board vote. Cameras go live in Gailsville. I try to ask if this is legal. Nobody gives me an opinion.

[00:20:54]Get an open records request. I filed a formal complaint with the DA and that didn't go anywhere because he's not the right guy and he's not.

[00:21:03]Susan and I went back and forth over some uh open records and there weren't any. I I finally gave up and I said, "Look, the the agreements don't exist.

[00:21:11]Consider this closed." And we closed it.

[00:21:16]I've been trying to find somebody, anybody, a lawyer to actually represent this case so that at least the camera gets put up, right? But I can't. So, I'm doing it on my own even though people say, "Here you go. You're right."

[00:21:29]Gailsville erected um rejected my claim [clears throat] and the cameras have stayed on.

[00:21:36]There are some major major major breaches of public trust here that need to be addressed by this board or answered.

[00:21:45]Where did the sheriff get the authority to sign this contract without the board approval?

[00:21:50]Wisconsin is an explicit state, meaning that the state statutes tell you explicitly what you can and cannot do. It is very clear that only the board can approve something like this.

[00:22:06]I'm asking for a resolution showing that you even took a vote. It doesn't exist.

[00:22:12]I can't find it. I can find a lot of things. We have no intergovernmental agreements. There was never a public notice in Gailsville. There was never a public notice here.

[00:22:22]And the mayor has absolutely no authority at all to agree to essentially a lease with a private company of public land without a vote.

[00:22:34][clears throat] And I have complained about this and filed it with everyone I know how. And the cameras have kept going.

[00:22:41]I was going to ask that the cameras are turned off until this is approved properly because our our citizens every time they drive by one are being photographed.

[00:22:52]Do you know that? Do you know all our cameras live stream now is a new upgrade. They flock keeps making upgrades. This went up as something to take a photo. Now it's a video camera.

[00:23:01]All flock cameras according to flock safety or video.

[00:23:06]You know who was one of the biggest searchers over in Jackson County when I got their records? University of Florida.

[00:23:14]You know who was another one? The good old men and women at Southwest State Community College in Tennessee.

[00:23:23]You get access to everything, every camera nationwide. We can't even put it upright. I'm going to withdraw my motion to ban the cameras because there are some significant legal issues that I want investigated and found out what I am going to and I can't do that now because it's not on the agenda. And so I'm going to ask for a moment to confer with the chair to find out what the next steps are. Unless anybody can refute a single thing I just said, I will open the floor up.

[00:24:06]Huh? [clears throat] >> Chair, can I have a minute?

[00:24:09]>> Yes.

[00:24:10]>> What I would like to do, you brought this information forward. Um, out of respect for the board and even the chair, if we could, if I could, if there's something on this, bring it forward and do some investigating. give us some time to get it done. Um, I'm not saying months and months and months. I'm just saying give us some time to get it done to get to review what you have to say because it's of course you you brought a lot of information to us.

[00:24:40]>> I I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. What I'm going to ask though of you, until we can actually investigate this and find out where money went, where things happened, and how this was approved, I'm going to ask somebody, whoever has the authority, and nobody knows the answer to this either, to just turn the damn cameras off until this board can appropriately vet this and make sure it's done right so our citizens have the ability to speak up.

[00:25:09]where I'm at with it is once we get the information and I'm going to take it seriously.

[00:25:15]>> I know >> once I get the information and I confer to everything and if we did something wrong, I'm not saying we did or we didn't. Um because I wanted to make sure we're open. I don't want to hide nothing, but if we did something wrong, I need to confer with corp counsel with our records to confer confirm everything before we move forward. I cannot at this time say off of the information you gave me, it wouldn't be fair to anybody and everybody to come up and say we have to shut these down right today because of this information that came forward. Just give me some time. Um I'm asking to give me some time to to look at this respectfully to um investigate what you gave us and move forward. U Mr. Chairman, I feel that the county is in has a liability issue with cameras that have been operating for a year that didn't comply with state law.

[00:26:10]I I I I will respect the chair's decision. I think the safest decision purely from a liability standpoint and from a constitutional standpoint is to have I don't even know who does it. I don't even know who's in charge.

[00:26:25]We don't even know to simply turn them off until you complete your investigation. This is not right and it's not fair that the citizens of Trenolo County are being photographed when the board never approved it. With that, I am done. I'll take questions and we have no answers for anything that I asked.

[00:26:44]>> Well, I will ask if you could for me um please send me that information. That would be wonderful. Um so I can review and if you could do that for me. um is this ain't going to be a a a long long process um because you brought some good information forward. Um so um let me review it and um I'll be more than happy to get some information out there.

[00:27:12]>> With that, I withdraw my motion to remove the flock cameras that is on the agenda because we need to figure out what happened.

[00:27:24]I respect your decision, Mr. Chair. I'll support it even though I disagree with it. I think they should be off until this board finds out what's happening.

[00:27:35]But we have to even find out who can turn them off. I've also asked that question and we have no answer.

[00:27:47]Any other questions from anybody here?

[00:27:52]>> Yes, sir. I have a question. Do we Does the sheriff's department have any >> You can release your >> Oh, sorry. Does the sheriff's department have any um authority or are they able to purchase items uh up to a certain amount before they need approval from the board?

[00:28:15]>> So, certainly there are things that have to be reviewed. Uh my understanding is in September 2024 uh and I'm looking at the minutes there was a possible purchase flock cameras item expressly on the agenda. It was expressly discussed.

[00:28:29]It was discussed about the amount. Uh that was part of the budget process in 2025.

[00:28:34]>> Susan, where's the vote?

[00:28:35]>> Um the vote would be in the minutes for the November budget the full county board meeting. So >> no vote at the committee level. you please this is my time and there is a a purchasing policy in place I I'm not sure there's a lot of data that happened or was provided today but there is authority for [clears throat] the department heads to directly purchase >> okay thank you >> any other questions No other questions. I guess uh that information will be brought to you then, Andy.

[00:29:23]>> Yes.

[00:29:27]>> All right.

[00:29:35]should be able to uh investigate in and find out what the next step is going to have to be.

[00:29:41]>> Absolutely. And I'll be I'll have it a high priority.

[00:29:44]>> Okay.

[00:29:46]Thank you.

[00:29:51]Nothing else on that at this time.

[00:29:55]There's two number eights on this sheet here. Discussion of possible action on monthly department jail activities concerns. Discussion of general operations.

[00:30:07]>> I got some jail numbers.

[00:30:08]>> Okay.

[00:30:09]>> Okay. All right.

[00:30:10]>> Just hit your button if you don't mind.

[00:30:11]>> Okay.

[00:30:12]>> Yeah. Um again, Sheriff Coxy wanted to be here. She had a prior engagement with the law enforcement um memorial that she um committed to back in January. And Chief Dell is is ill today. So, um, talking with Captain Ko from the jail.

[00:30:30]We have a total of 73 inmates.

[00:30:33]70 are actively in. Two are in Mandota Mental Health. Um, and one is at the Wisconsin Resource Center. We have four inmates from Buffalo County and we have seven inmates from Jackson County.

[00:30:51]Um, she wanted uh that they still are short. They haven't been at approved staffing levels since they moved into the new jail. So, they're still down a few. Um they're still two sergeants and two cos.

[00:31:07]They got some interviews coming up this 17th for um see for the community re-entry position.

[00:31:16]um the one lady that was in interview process um backed out with Drew and then they got another male applicant um that they're going to be interviewing also for corrections officer.

[00:31:31]That's it for the jail.

[00:31:34]>> Okay. Thank you.

[00:31:35]>> Yep.

[00:31:39]>> Anybody have any questions on the report given?

[00:31:49]Set next meeting date and time. Whoops.

[00:31:52]We still have Oh, yeah. That's right.

[00:31:56]This was just some update on there.

[00:32:01]Next meeting date and time.

[00:32:13]should be the second Wednesday.

[00:32:17]>> June 10th.

[00:32:21]Second Wednesday, right?

[00:32:24]June 10th at 10:00.

[00:32:42]Okay, Mr. Chairman, can I make just one more comment before we close out?

[00:32:50]>> Certainly.

[00:32:52]>> Throughout all of this, the the vict Well, one of the victims is Erica Coxine. I didn't find her name once in any of this stuff.

[00:32:59]>> Oh, >> I I Erica, it's funny. I went through this. Erica Coxine was nowhere near any of this. I couldn't find her name once in here.

[00:33:09]>> Um, she didn't [snorts] >> what?

[00:33:12]>> She wasn't the sheriff.

[00:33:13]>> I I I know. I just want it for the record um that people understand that Erica did not do this and there's nothing she can do about it right now until the board takes action. And so, um, I respect her. I've gotten to really enjoy her and get to know her. But she didn't have anything to do with this.

[00:33:30]>> Thank you.

[00:33:35]All right.

[00:33:37]So at 10:34 meeting adjourned.