RAM DASS REMEMBERED

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:02]Why am I doing this? Uh when I reached my 81st year a few days ago, I did realize that there were stories that that were going to go with me and and I thought would someone would someone benefit from that. So it actually uh uh dawned on me maybe in fact some among you would like to hear about something that maybe you wouldn't have heard otherwise. So that's sort of the crux of why I'm here. And uh and we're going to do that by by uh going back in time with Ramdas and then in later times some of the more personal interactions that I had with him. But just to begin uh like it's ironic in a way that I get an introduction because Ramdas never got introductions. It'd be 3,000 people.

[00:00:49]He'd just wander out on the stage and he'd start fiddling with the chair and he almost like he didn't know anyone was there.

[00:00:58]And uh and then finally he'd sit down and and after a little while he would start somewhere like saying, you know, it's interesting that and you'd feel like you missed something because he sort of almost like he started in the middle of a sentence and you knew you were off and running. It was like it was like you're talking to him in a living room. It really was. So So it's different to have a uh u introduction. So anyway, so we're going to go back in time if if you will. And uh to give you context on what we're doing is uh I'm going to start like in 1970. It could have been 65, could have been 70, but I'll just use 1970 because that's when I arrived in California. And at that time, uh this is this is a tricky thing to do. But you need to go from realizing that today we have all these facilities, books and teachers and retreats and internet, all of these things and you really take it for granted. But if you go back to 1970, we didn't have that. We really didn't. Uh, you know, there was a few magazines, you know, there was radio. Um, you know, there wasn't a lot, but there were a lot of psychedelics. There was a lot going on. There was a lot of awakening and I use that word limitedly in that they were awakening to what?

[00:02:25]What were they awakening to? And honestly, no one knew. Look at Woodstock. Look at the the Ken Keezy bus rides. Look at Haydashburg. They were mostly feeling the awakening.

[00:02:38]They were feeling it. But with few exceptions, they really couldn't define what it was. So mostly it was an explosion of energy and a lot of damage even occurred and and you know not that it wasn't a glorious time and hate Ashbury and all the stuff going on but if you reflect back uh there wasn't a lot of knowing about exactly what it was they were awakening to it really I was there and I we didn't know we just knew this feeling and and to our credit you were following this instinct but you weren't sure why.

[00:03:14]And into the scene comes uh Ramdas first uh Ram Das and then the book be here now. And many of you here and certain you've heard about it. Uh the book be here now was transformative in that uh it explained the journey that others were feeling. So they were having these huge ahas.

[00:03:37]Ahas and is okay. Okay. This is the basic primer for eastern eastern spirituality and I'm starting to get some sense of of uh of what this journey is about. And and and Ramdas was the great explainer.

[00:03:57]That's my own term because that really hits it for me. He was the great explainer. His fabulous explainer. So in order to get some context in that uh I don't want to do a whole bio of Ramos.

[00:04:10]You can read about him but you do need some background which I'll quickly I'll quickly go over so you know who he was.

[00:04:18]and he was born Richard Albert in uh in Massachusetts from a very affluent family highly highly educated went to undergraduate at TUS and his masters at Wesland and finally his doctorate in psychology at at Stanford. So he was uh he was uh he had arrived and then after brief uh teaching at uh in Stanford he went he was hired to go to in the psychology department at Harvard. So when he's at Harvard in his mind he had arrived. He really had arrived. He had a big office. He had a sports car. He had his own airplane. He was there man. and he was riding, you know, and he was a professor and, you know, he did the parties and he he was very ariodite named Richard Albert, that was his name.

[00:05:10]And he did a lot of good work at Harvard and and uh until down the hall, a friend of his also in the department, one Timothy Larry turned him on to psilocybin and he took psilocybin for the first time said he saw more in eight hours seen in his entire education. So he and Timothy he and uh Timothy Larry began to do all sorts of experiments with LSD. It was legal at the time all under the opaces of Harvard and there were other experiments in LSD going on all over the country in Stanford. Ken Keezy was in the first uh uh LSD experiments at uh Stanford and he had never taken a drug or drunk alcohol and turned out it was a CIA sponsored uh thing but that's Ken Kees had never done drugs when he took acid at in experiment. So so it was around because it it was legal and they thought that it was a panacea.

[00:06:12]It was only a matter of getting it right, putting enough at the right time, the right formula, and you would be enlightened. I mean, it sounds crazy now, but they thought that was it. And so, it was all about that. So did they did a lot of uh experiments, some of the first ever blind uh blind studies at Harvard and and uh but ultimately both he and Timothy Larry were fired from Harvard for supposedly giving LSD to an undergraduate against some kind of agreement. That may or may not be true, but they were fired. And off they go, continuing their experiments uh and primarily at Millbrook, a big mansion north of in upstate New York, which they took massive amounts of LSD and did workshops and started foundations. You know, they knew how to do it. And uh by the way, there's a Ken Quasy movie if you haven't seen it. It's called Magic Trip. I saw it the other night. And at the end of the trip, they end up in Milbrook and they meet this guy Richard Albert.

[00:07:14]Ain't that funny? And he's holding forth like he's a professor and they couldn't care less because they're just they're just dropping acid, you know, just raising hell. So there's this weird sort of a moment there between the two. So that's the picture. So after a period, Ramdas, it wasn't Ramdas, Richard Albert became disillusioned with the drugs because no matter how they took them, how much they took or how they took them, one thing was always true. They came down. They always came down. But when they were on the drug, they had this distinct feeling. There were people out there who didn't take drugs, who were always that way. And they referred to them as those who know. Those who know. And they would refer to those who know. So ultimately uh Richard Albert uh disillusioned. He goes off to travel the world. Ends up in India. Meets this guy Bwandas a hippie kid from Lagona Beach and they travel around and Bwandas introduces Richard Albert to his guru Nee Corolli Baba and Ramnos. Richard Albert wanted nothing to do with it. He really saw himself as an atheist.

[00:08:29]Couldn't care less. But he meets this Indian guru and the guy essentially blew his mind. He knew what he was thinking about the night before. He told him about his mother. One thing and another.

[00:08:39]Ramdas is blown away and stays there and takes teachings for many months until uh um Maharaji as they call him basically kicked him out. Says it's time to go.

[00:08:53]it's time for you to go home. It's time for you to go to America. So back he comes carrying a manuscript that he had written and he goes to uh the Llama Foundation in Tal, New Mexico with a with a manuscript and and the people uh there put together graphics and basically they put together be here now which came out as a loose leaf kind of a box full of stuff and then ultimately the book and and uh and Michael's been kind enough to bring one of the old cop copies. We have a little display over here of Ramda stuff and we have a be here now copy and uh came out in the blue familiar blue book that's now sold over two million copies and it's still around still in print today. And so that's how uh uh it it came about. So So let's go uh skip on up here now and how did Ramdas do it? What was different about him? And this this to me if you say there are some personal things I want to share with you but this to me is the nuance of what I most would like to impart and the most difficult to impart is it's sort of like who was Ramdas why why was he who he was number one he was not a guru he was not a guru he never said he was a guru and all the years I knew him I never thought of him as a guru I never knew anyone who thought of him as a guru. There are a lot of people who saw him as guru mostly people who weren't around him. They they just were looking for someone and Ramdas becomes that. But he himself did not present himself as a guru. In fact, he became very uh anti of those who were saying they were enlightened beings. He could be tough in that regard. So, he wasn't a guru. And so how how did he how did he impart the information to people that made him so so popular among them? And he said he explained it that he was like everyone else. He was on this journey of awakening just like you and me. he was on the same journey and that we were all just walking each other home ex it's just that his particular job his karma was explaining the journey. It just he could have been a mailman or whatever but his job just happened to be using his life, the things that he was going through, what he was learning to share with others who were doing the same. and and he was totally laidback. So, a picture and I'm just using California, but it could it was all over the United States. Uh he was a totally laidback dude. He always had he would have like this fabric bag over his shoulder, never had a roller bag, you know, he always carried everything. Very kicked back t-shirt.

[00:12:05]And he was just kind of around. There was no entourage. There was no there was no heirs that he put on. There was no hiding. He He was out there. He He would be at He would be at uh Grateful Dead concert. He'd be at, you know, the West, you know, the Westport uh what is it?

[00:12:23]The uh jazz festival, Newport Jazz Festival. He was all over the place. He just was kind of around and you you know you might see him anywhere and he would speak before uh before large large groups but he was like he traveling with him and he even referred he once said that Rahm stood for random mouth so that's sort of what he was he was the mouth he was the mouthpiece and and he was a master of being the mouthpiece that's why we go back and look at his bio and his history. He was a suave ariodite dude. I mean he could he could mix in any crowd. The most sophisticated people to the hippies of ash hate ashberry. He was comfortable across that. But because of his really professor uh background. He struck a he struck an imposing pose and he could speak very articulately to uh psychological groups or to some church or anywhere else. and ultimately people all over the world. And he did it by uh telling uh fantastic stories. He was just a master storyteller. And uh uh let me see where I was here. Uh people would go to hear him talk just to hear the stories. And they're stories that if you were hanging out with Ramdas, you'd heard at least a dozen times.

[00:13:54]And and so when you'd start the story, instead of you feeling, oh, he's telling that story, you'd start smiling.

[00:14:02]I know this one's great. It's a great story. And he would embellish it and tell it a little differently. And people love to hear his story and he loved to laugh and he loved humor. And he fed off of the audience. And this is really interesting to me because if you think of like the Grateful Dead, they're famous for these endless uh numbers and the people dancing for hours on in. And people think like the Grateful Dead were playing to the crowd. No, the Grateful Dead were feeding off the crowd. They were putting the crowd's vibes to music.

[00:14:36]They were It was the sound of the crowd.

[00:14:40]So as the crowd built, so did the music.

[00:14:46]And that's the way a lot of that music was. Certainly the Grateful Dead. And that's the way Ron Dus was when he's teaching among 2,000 people or however he's doing it. He is he is giving them what they're asking for. And he was constantly using the term, are you hearing this? Are you hearing this?

[00:15:06]Okay.

[00:15:08]And that meant uh are you uh understanding it? So if it's a big crowd, it's thousands of people. Uh he's saying that and he's picking up. Are you ready for the next I think maybe I can take you, you know, we can go a little more here. Are can are you hearing this?

[00:15:30]And and you could see the crowd going with him. and he would uh you would feel like he was talking to you and he would say, "I'm not telling you anything you don't already know."

[00:15:45]And it sounds like a just a flippant statement, but it absolutely is true.

[00:15:50]And what is true is, and it's true for everybody in this room, we see and feel things that we haven't brought into consciousness.

[00:15:59]They're they're they're swirling around.

[00:16:01]They're a little cloud. kind of not quite formed and he would name that because he was feeling it in himself and your light would come on. I hear that and it would validate your journey and that's what he was doing. One time years later I had not seen him for several years and I actually felt like I had sort of moved away from Ramdas. I sort of I was seeing things I was taking a turn. I wasn't I wasn't rejecting anything. I was opening in a different way. I was feeling I was feeling the path was turning a little bit for me and I I really felt like I didn't need to go to see Ramas but I went for nostalgia because it was so much fun. It was like a party always was went on he'd talk and then Krishna Das or somebody would chant for hours and then there'd be more sometimes they go on for hours they were like a a happening any rate I go to the event and I'm kind of listening you know a little bit uh distracted and at some point during the evening he said he was now feeling this feeling that the path was and he hit it right on the nose.

[00:17:21]of what I had been feeling. It just blew me away. I mean, talk about think about that how validating it is that you think that you're not in this. You're over here now. And the speaker says, "This is where this is where I'm seeing it now."

[00:17:37]>> And it was just like, "Holy mackerel, just and then your eyes pop open and you really feel like he's just talking to you." And he and he did that. He had these famous oneliners. He was quite well known for his oneliners. And there's a whole book. We have one over there. And it's a whole book of oneliners over here. And there there's not one in there was that was one of mine.

[00:18:01]And and none of the ones I had were in that book. So everybody had their oneliners. But for me uh uh one of a few of them that really uh stayed with me that were important for my own personal journey was the term grock. And that term actually comes from uh stranger in a strange land. I think a book from the 80s. Excuse me. Hate the way he's cracked.

[00:18:32]So Grock, Ramdas described Grock one night. I heard him do it and it took him 10 minutes. He went through a whole bit.

[00:18:43]It's in your brain. It's swirling around. It's in your mouth and he's gargling and he's saying it's swishing it around. This concepts in your mouth going down your throat is into your intestines and finally it's out to your extremities and you have groted it. You now have that concept. You don't have to revisit it. It's now you you're part of it. And that's groing. And that was super important for me because I really felt like I had groed a certain aspect and I didn't revisit it. I was ready for the next because I've gro that. And then another one that I particularly like was when he would say he would say uh that all of life is gristed for the mill of your awakening. He did a lot talking about the physical plane the importance of that but he would use the term grist for the mill of your awakening. All events in life good bad were there as fuel for your awakening. like the grist that goes into the mill to make the bread, the events in your life go into you to make your enlightenment. So, so around the Ramda circles, you would you might lament some sad story to your friends and they would kindly say, you know, grace for the meal. So, so and he talked a lot about the importance of your incarnation.

[00:20:11]uh while uh some more uh uh uh guru types they're talking from up here you need to get to this place he would talk about you have to honor your incarnation and so he would shorten that the oneliner was you have to remember your zip code and so he just lived with these oneliners and they were they were like uh you know religion to me you know I I had tons of them and they were they were uh important to me. And he spoke an awful lot about the importance of of living your incarnation and that the only thing you could share with another being was your being. All the rest was In other words, you're sharing your being with another being. And that's what's really happening. in that and this really you know this is like are you I want to say are you hearing this because I'm going to give you another one here as well. So is everybody hearing this? Because he would say that just because you're doing he would say there's nothing in and of itself that is either spiritual or other than spiritual only the nature of the being. They weren't spiritual acts and not spiritual acts. They were just the nature of the being doing it. So in his words, you could be a great generous giver of something or you could be taking care of a dying person and all the while you are in essence ripping them off for their energy of appreciation and you feeling good about yourself. You want the accolades. So you have done this what looks like by on the surface as a quote spiritual act which in when in fact you were just another ego trip. So and another thing you might do that was nothing like that uh and you were totally a spiritual being. All my life I've the things that Rahm does said I I' I've thought about you know you see the guy driving a bus or or you know doing whatever and he could very well be this enlightened being. I really feel that you know and he said that it's better to be the teaching than the teacher.

[00:22:39]>> Doesn't mean being a teacher isn't a great thing. It's just that uh the act of teaching can be in itself a trap. You start to think that's who you are. Whereas if you are just being the teaching, then that's that's probably a better route. He wasn't making one wrong or the other. He was just saying, you know, that that's really a better way to go. If you if you're be the teaching, be the example of it, you know, be the example of it.

[00:23:09]So just to move along. So um about that time I'm living in big su in a a trailer and a uh I had a tent a sleeping tent and I was a leather craftsman and fake it till you make it and uh and living under the redwood trees a big big sir and the first time I saw him was a big event in Berkeley uh and I was just blown away. I just never been around anything like that. the chanting, him talking. I'm this straight guy, you know, back east. And so, but I was really blown away by it. I just I just knew that's, you know, my guy. And we would hang around in in our trailer and big su and we did our leather crafting and we listen to these tapes, these these little Ramdas tapes that we can talk about. And uh and so we learned more and more about Ramdas. And one day uh we were one day we were uh hanging out in the trailer and having this little talk and we we would say things like when do you think you'll be enlightened? And somebody say you I think maybe like six weeks and I remember I felt much more humble.

[00:24:19]I said no man I think it's going to be six months. I mean we didn't know man.

[00:24:23]We just thought we this journey has an end. and we're going to be there, you know. So, so anyway, we so there was confusion. So, so I remember standing by the window in my trailer and turn and saying that if I had only one wish in the world, it would be to be a student of Ramdas.

[00:24:42]>> And people said, why student? Why? What?

[00:24:46]And I say, "Well, because you know, if we're trying to figure out what it is that's going on, I'd like to be with the heaviest dude I know, and that's Ramdas.

[00:24:56]We talked that way. Heaviest dude. That was like 70s." So, so I'd said, you know, if I had only one waist, so lo and behold, a few days later, a week or so, Ramdas is coming to Elon, the the uh famous uh retreat center in Big Su. And uh so you if you were local you could go down to the hot baths at like the middle of the night like after 1 in the morning you could go to the bats. So the locals in big s they'd go down to the hot baths you know after 1 in the morning or something. So we would track down to the hot tubs and then we'd go into we'd leave a note for dogs. Please come see us. It was my partner and I said will you come to the campground? You know, we'd leave these freaking notes and then we'd go back we'd go back and wait all day and see if he showed up. I I don't know what we were expecting. We had no phone. I don't know what we expected.

[00:25:48]So, after a few days, we began to to think, "Oh, man, he's he's going to leave. He's going to be leaving. You know, we got to do something." So, we just got in the car and we drove down to walked right into the you know, we had no right to be there. And we walked right into the dining room and Ramdas was standing in line to uh eat. And we walked up and said, "Ramdas, we're Paul and Lynn." And he turned around and said, "Paul and Lyn, >> a big bear hug. It wasn't as good as Maggie's or what some of the people here at CCL, but it was a hell of a hug. And it was like a big bear hug with both of us. And then he did this breathing thing just brought the tong just like he was bringing it all down and like he was just right in the middle of the cafeteria. It was wild.

[00:26:46]Didn't mean to didn't mean to do that.

[00:26:48]Then he went all the way out to his car and got some uh beautiful album he had and gave it to us and we were on our way. So that was our first meeting around us. And then uh I get recalled Pan-American 1976.

[00:27:03]I head back to New York. Uh going back to Panama. I hadn't been out of the state. I hadn't been in a building. I hadn't seen a television. I didn't have a telephone. I had not been anywhere for five years. I had a beard, hair down to my shoulders. I wore handmade shirts.

[00:27:22]And I was a hippie leather craftsman.

[00:27:26]Believe me, I fit in. I had the uniform.

[00:27:29]I had I looked apart. So anyway, I head back to New York, back to Panam, and I'm on the other side of Kennedy airport, way out on Long Beach. I think it's where like the Godfather took place or something way out there. And it was a hard transition. I had a hard time. It was it was a hard transition. I you know, there's not much uh ceremony. you just back in training and you know here I am and it's I'm pretty screwed up and I read in a magazine they had a lot of magazines in New Age Journal, East West Journal, Yoga Journal. There were a lot of them and u and I read an article that started out I've been following you from New York.

[00:28:11]This is a interview for Ramdas. He interviewing Ramdas picture on the front page and the lady who was interviewing said said, "Ramdas, I've been following you from New York to Boston to to Monsters Vineyard. You're you're very hard to find." And he said, "Yes, but when you find me, you got me."

[00:28:34]And I go, "What? You mean I I could be that include me?" you know, and it was like the lights went on, man. I said, I never thought of that. I could could I see, you know, hang, you know, sit down.

[00:28:50]And so I set about to find uh Ramdas.

[00:28:53]And Scorton, you'll say, I can be determined.

[00:29:00]And I do not know. I didn't know a soul in New York. I do have no idea how I found him. I even asked Krishna if it was him and he said he was in India. So, uh, I don't know how I found him, but I got an appointment with Ramdas on the upper east side, upper west side of Manhattan and went to see him and, uh, sat down in the little, it was apartment with very little in it and the room had nothing but pillows and, uh, and I, we sat on pillows about knee to knee sitting on the pillows, Ramdas, me and Ramdas is sitting in the full lotus position and I'm in the not full lotus position and uh and so so so I'm asking him these meaningless questions that no matter what he always he had huge eyes and he would close those eyes and he would always go inside. He never gave flippant answers. He never said that's a stupid question. He would go inside no matter how mundane the question was, he would give you an answer. And so he this went about maybe 30 40 minutes. I do not remember one single word spoken. Not one. And then he said closed his eyes and he said so uh I think that's about it.

[00:30:22]And I am telling you something rose in me. I do not know where it came from but I just started saying no no no it's not.

[00:30:31]I'm supposed to get something. I I was supposed to get something and I haven't gotten it. It was like It was like the exorcist.

[00:30:39]I just went off. I really did. I have I hadn't thought about it. I hadn't planned it. I didn't know it was coming.

[00:30:44]It just came and I started saying, "I'm supposed to get something and I haven't gotten it." And he closed his eyes for the longest time and he opened his eyes and said, "I'm starting a small class."

[00:31:00]Oh. Oh. All I said was, "Please, oh please. Oh, please." I just kept saying, "Oh, please. Oh, please place." And he said, "You come next Tuesday." Uh, we were meeting at 7:00. And he said, "We'll know, you and I, whether you should be there or not, but you come next next Tuesday."

[00:31:22]So, I go to the class and there were seven people. Seven people came and I think two of them are gone in about five minutes. and he laid out the rules that this class would meet every Tuesday night at 700 pm without fail. You could never miss the class or don't come back.

[00:31:44]No excuses.

[00:31:46]If you had a dire emergency, you could call him and discuss it with him. But otherwise, you do not miss. You do not tell anyone you're in this class. not your best friend, your spouse maybe. No one is to know about this class. And finally, you couldn't tell anyone what you were learning in the class. Like if you're teaching somewhere, you're teaching yoga or something. You cannot teach what you're learning here. And that was a all of that made perfect sense. He wanted it was like planting a tree. He wanted it to blossom, but he didn't want you blasting it out there somewhere. And the secrecy was that if anyone knew all hell would break loose.

[00:32:32]They would come from all over the world.

[00:32:34]It would be chaos. And it turned out when he decided that he was going to take students, he decided that he would not tell anyone he was going to and he would leave it up to God to give him a sign.

[00:32:54]So, can you imagine this klutzo comes in there and says, "No, I'm supposed to get something." And and whereas I think he's going to talking to God, he's really saying, "No, no, you got to be kidding me. Not you know, he's not not this guy." So, and and and uh and as far as I know, and I've never heard this refuted, only one time in his entire life did Ramdas take students. He had workshops, you know, was it Nuropa with him for six weeks, you know, there were many things where he had he had, you know, workshop students, but never did he take personal students or have an ongoing class of one time, one time only and I walked in the door. Now >> remember big sir, >> one wish I had in the world.

[00:33:55]blows my mind.

[00:33:58]It's the greatest blessing of my life.

[00:34:00]So for the next year and a half, uh, swine with Panama and I never missed the class.

[00:34:06]>> I even slept on the floor once in my uniform because I had to fly the next morning. And he taught us no socializing. The class built up to maybe 30, 40 people. Uh, uh, no socializing.

[00:34:19]You came in 7:00, you started meditating. And we worked hard.

[00:34:24]Every type of thing he had ever learned, heavyduty breathing techniques, mantras, secret mantras that guru had given him, chanting, and of course he would talk and he was the top of the world then. So he'd picture would be on the front page somewhere and we get the inside skinny, you know, he's he's over here, he's over there. And so we were we were sort of getting the inside story on all this stuff was going on and the class worked really really hard for a year a year and a half and uh during that time as I say I kept flying and also during that time how we doing on time speaking oh we doing in good shape u um during that time I had I was driving to where I was living up near Danbury Connecticut and I drive past the Danbury prison prison.

[00:35:15]And I said to my wife at the time, and I didn't know why. I said, "It seems like I've got some work to work there."

[00:35:21]That's a Ramdas term, too. I think we have some work together. You know, do you have any work together? That sort of thing. So, uh, I said, you know, it feels like I've got some work there. And I I will just so I saw uh an art a little thing in one of the spiritual magazines said give $6 and and these inmates can get a free subscription because they can't afford it and you can pay for it. So I said, "Okay, that's what I do." And there's one that said Danbury Prison. I said, "Oh, six bucks.

[00:35:50]I'll send it to him." So I bought a And then I thought, you know, his name was there. I'll write him a letter tell him is there any way I can help you? So I writing a letter to this guy and Joseph Morab I remember his name uh uh I wrote a letter to him and and essentially said you know I'm on this spiritual journey if I can help you you know and uh I get back this letter that I had to look carefully I thought Ramdas wrote it. I mean it was like whoa this guy had been doing inner work. He was like this was some heavy duty stuff you he was really a clear dude. And then after a couple of letters, he said, "I put you on the uh I put you on the uh visitors list and come to see me." Whoa. I'm going to So I go to Danbury Prison. Never been in prison in my life. And I go into the me the uh visitors thing and and you just sat on chairs like this. There were no there was guards, but you you weren't behind the wall or anything. You were sitting right facing him. and and I was talking to him and this guy walks up and he introduces me as uh the guy's a prison psychologist and George Seinfeld was still my friend today and and uh so he was psychologist and he told the guard that he would be that Joseph could stay there by himself because he was going to show me around. So he shows me around this prison and I I'm walking around this prison. It's a it's all men prison.

[00:37:19]They have four big dorms and uh so like 90 men in a dorm and they have just uh bunk beds and big shower, a wreck room and a huge wrecky yard. And so I'm walking down the hall and I walk by this library. And he points out the library and I and I said, "Oh, I had to see at the library." And I said I said, "So I I could get you some books for the library. You know, you know, holy books.

[00:37:41]I can get you some holy books." And he said, "No, I want you to come here and teach."

[00:37:47]He could have not teach. I never thought of teaching in my life, man. Oh my god.

[00:37:52]So, I didn't know what to say, man.

[00:37:54]There was a part of me, you know, we all feel like we, you know, we want to share the good that we've learned. We want that. We feel it in our hearts. We could do that. I could do that, you know. And so, um, but I, you know, my god. So, uh, I go off the next class after class and I go to Ramdas and I say, "Uh, Ramdas, you know, and they want these people want me to come teach at Danbury Federal President." And I'm waiting for him to say, "Are you kidding me? You klutz. You you can't, you know, but he likes, "Oh, that'd be good. That'd be really cool.

[00:38:25]You ought to do that." So, he said he said, "Yeah, go ahead and do that.

[00:38:29]That'd be great." And so, I said, "Well, do you have any advice?" and he said, "Yeah, you have to be very honest with those guys because they you'll pick up on really quickly. So, you got to be very honest." Turned out to be good advice.

[00:38:44]And then I said, "What about what I've been learning from you in here?"

[00:38:50]And he said, "You can teach them anything you learn in our class." I got the green light, >> you know, and to my knowledge, no one else had that. uh there was no one else teaching in the prison in our group. So, so for the next year or so, I would fast every Tuesday till Thursday morning. That was my routine. I'd go to Ramdas Tuesday night and I'd fast all day Wednesday and I'd go to my prison class on Wednesday night and and channel Ramdas to the prisoners at Danbury Federal Prison. And and we had a great time. I mean, they had tell them all about Ram D and because, you know, they couldn't go tell anybody. And I had Joseph Goldstein. Joseph Goldstein came back by and Jack uh what's his name from >> Cornfield?

[00:39:44]>> Cornfield. Yeah. He and Jack Kornfield and Joseph Goldstein came the same night. They drove all the way down from from uh Barry, Massachusetts to my class one night and that was a big thrill for the guys. So any rate, that was a part of it. And then so after a year and a half we had moved up to Pauling, New York on a beautiful estate of this this big brush owner and we had the guest house and I told Ram D that's where I was living.

[00:40:17]So along about uh August of uh 77, he uh um announced that he was going back to India and having the last class the next weekend and we're having it up at Paul's place.

[00:40:32]>> Okay, we're going to have it up at Paul's place. So, uh last class of Ram Dots here. They come and Ramdas tells us he'll have lunch with us and then the class meet in the yard. So, as a leather craftsman, he's coming up there and I had made le by then I was a I was a a a pretty good leather craftsman. We had created these leather appointment books and Jack Nicholson had one. I made gifts for Clint Eastwood. I was known in the Big Sur area and but I hadn't done it in a couple of years. I'd laid that aside, but I had never made one for Ron Das.

[00:41:10]And I So, I wanted it to be the G grand, you know, my grand hoopa. So, I proceeded to work on this book. I got out all my tools and I worked all night long on this book. And the whole time I'm operating under the the thought that Ramdas is totally capable of thanking me graciously for this book and handing it to the person right next to him and my precious book is gone. You know, so with that thought in mind all night long I'm saying be in the moment. This this is this is the reward. The doing is the reward. This is the reward. And it's like the potter becomes the pot. And I became the book. And I worked all night on that thing. I was doing Hanuman, the monkey god that was part of Ramdas's lineage. And I worked on that thing. And I all of a sudden the sun was up. And any rate, the next day we had uh we had he had lunch with us and I gave him the book. We go out in the yard and all the classes meeting. and we have the class and sometime during the class he brings up the book and he holds it up and he said all of the things that I always wanted him to say about me you know we want that you know what a good person if he says it maybe it's true and he talked about exactly without my ever having told him this is what it's like when you do something out of total love so he says everything I wanted to here and I couldn't care less. I was done. It was the weirdest experience. I really was just watching. I didn't I didn't take anything in. I didn't I did I just sort of listened. That was it. And the picture of that book's right there.

[00:43:10]And the picture of him holding it over there. And there's a very rare picture on the far right of the class in New York. I don't remember anyone ever taking that. tell you the truth. Uh, but that is the only picture I've ever seen, but that was the class in New York City.

[00:43:28]And there are others over there. There's picture of the retreat in Rhode Island.

[00:43:32]I'm actually in that picture. I didn't know it till after I printed it. I'm on the very, very far right. I remember uh the death and dying lady, Kubler Ross.

[00:43:40]She was there. It was up in Rhode Island. And he comes fiveday retreat.

[00:43:44]And and so it's 350 people. And so we start the retreat and Ramda said, "Uh, this retreat will be in total silence and no one will speak till the end of the week." So it's like, so we're there for five days, no talking. You could you could ask a question when you were in the thing, but otherwise no interaction, no talking. So that picture is up there of uh that retreat. And then the other picture is from Maui after he'd had his stroke and I'm talking to him in Maui.

[00:44:16]So, okay. I've kind of kind of moved along here. I don't even know what time to Oh, yeah. We're good. Okay. So, I'm just going to finish up and then we're going to have questions. Uh so, um after class, after the class ended, that really was the period where I most interacted personally with Ramdas because now I knew him and uh he always treated me as a friend. uh and I him as a friend but I always saw him as my teacher and over the period let's say from 77 up through uh maybe 95 uh I saw him many many times I produced uh two events in New Haven. He stayed at my house and you know after the event we'd have a beer uh you know to pick him up and drive him there and and uh one time I was walking down the street in New York. I was living in New Haven and I was visiting friends and I was walking down the street in Manhattan and I hadn't seen Ramdas in a long time and I saw a pay phone. I thought I think I'll see if he's done. So I I called the number I have from Ramdas and he answers the phone and I said told him I was in town. Could I come see him? Yeah, come on up. So, you know, go up there and you just hang out for two hours and it's just you and Ramdas. And uh and that happened. I was out in California. I did the same thing. He was living in Moran County and he said, "Yeah, come on over.

[00:45:41]I'll take you to dinner." So I went over and picked him up and we went out to dinner and we had many times where we shared dinners together uh uh travel together. Um you know lots and lots of different situations I was with him in his home and out there and in my home.

[00:45:58]So uh you know like I said it was some 125 times probably I was with him and uh so uh if I missed anything if I missed anything I think I missed if anybody missed anything. So, I think I about about giving you everything I can give you. So, let's see. Um, uh, the times we were together, there was some story I want to tell. I can't remember what it was. Well, it'll come to me, but I can't remember it right now. But he he just loved humor.

[00:46:33]He loved humor. And I have a type of humor. Some of you know, that it just comes out. It's It's not filtered and it's you know sometimes it's really funny. Sometimes probably shouldn't have done it but I hear it at the first that you heard it. I don't hear until you hear it. It just comes out and I would be with him and we'd be in some situation and one of my my you know statements would come out. I would not get the last syllable out before he'd be laughing. He got it immediately. He was sharp as a tech and he would pick up on it immediately and he'd get big laugh then maybe he'd say, "Oh, Paul," he would do something numbered like that, but it was almost like I said what we both were thinking and I just said it, you know. So, he loved to laugh and uh and uh then so the last time uh last time I saw him uh was well, it wasn't the last time I saw him.

[00:47:36]we had after his stroke. Uh um I saw him a few times. I saw him in Maui. I saw him in Tucson, San Francisco, Tal and u um uh Zoom calls. He used to have this thing called hearttoheart and and it's only if you if you knew about it wasn't advertised but if you knew about it you could send in a request for heart to heart ramdas and it might be four or five months later you get this notice uh you know 7 o'clock Tuesday night are you free and uh the zoom would ring it wasn't zoom in those days and there would be rhdas and you just hang out with him for an hour just you and him and so I would always put my name in, you know, and so uh so I had a Zoom call with him once. It was supposed to be 45 minutes and it was an hour and a half and uh my wife Jan and I and so she had cancer and so he was counseling her about her cancer and we're going along.

[00:48:41]We've been talking to him for an hour and out of nowhere he he says, "I found out I have a son."

[00:48:51]Have you ever had somebody say something that's just so far out you said you just say that's nice?

[00:48:57]I It's like it's like someone saying, "I just got back from Mars." You go, "Oh, that's nice." I said, "I didn't know what to say, man." I said, "Oh, that's nice." And then the very next thought was, "Oh my god, the stroke. I didn't realize I didn't realize that, you know, gotten him. He's it's the stroke." Cuz I never heard of that. And so so we sort of he talked about it for a minute.

[00:49:17]Turned out the guy lived in North Carolina. He didn't know about him. He had had an affair with a woman when was in college in Stanford. She had a child after he had left. He she never told the child. Da da. And after the guy had grown, had children, his children began to recognize he looked like Ramdas.

[00:49:36]Ultimately, his children contacted Ramdas. They actually did a DNA test. It was his son. and and he and Ramdas, he was not very uh he was happy about it, but he says he's a very nice man. He's a straight he's a straight banker, you know, it wasn't like, you know, a long lost son, but I think they they came out and saw him and they saw one another periodically. And so that was a that was a interesting time. So the very last time I was with him uh Kpalo I don't know if you know about Kpalo but it was a wonderful uh retreat center in Massachusetts and they had a big uh hoo-ha when the uh the uh decide the the guru uh parted ways with the group there in in uh Massachusetts and there was deep division a lot of anger this side that side and I was seeing a woman who had lived there many years and she was now with me in New Haven. So I said, you know, maybe Rhonda should go up there and that would help, you know, heal him.

[00:50:42]And so she said, well, I wouldn't know how to do that. And I said, call him up.

[00:50:47]So I give I give her his number. And there was a part of me that was kind of getting off on, you know, how she was freaking out. So she call So she calls Ron Das and he answered the phone. She goes, she's talking to Rahm Doss and she tells him could he go up there and and he didn't give her a firm answer. So, so later we heard he was going to be in Maho Bay. This this deal that that wonderful thing that Omega Institute used to do in the Caribbean. So, we said, well, let's go down to Maho Bay and we'll recruit him and we'll go to this Omega thing. So, we go down to Maho Bay. You you go have to take the thing from St. John the ferry and then a a bus ride thing up to Maho Bay. And uh so we're up there and and it's all all outdoors, huge pavilion, all these raised sort of tent things where you stay. So we get some tea and we sit down. We hadn't been there five minutes. So I said, "You think you're ready to talk to Ronda Dawson?" And uh she said, "Well, I don't know." I said, "Well, you better. Here he comes. He came and sat right beside her. He came and sat down and gave her. So she's like thrown into the mix again. And ultimately we end up talking Ramdas into going to Kpalo. And I took him I went to New York, picked him up and drove him all the way up to Kalo. And uh and he did a big event with like 300 people and uh and I thought I would just sort of deliver him and then you know just wait and give him a ride when he leaves. But you know, he got there in the afternoon and came dinner and a bunch of people around him said, "Where's Paul?" And so he wanted to have dinner. He wanted to have dinner every meal with me. He wanted somebody with him. So I got to sort of be his his like buffer for the whole time he was there. And then I drove him uh uh back to Bridgeport and dropped him off at the train. He liked to just be dropped at a bus station or something. He just travel around by himself. And uh that was the last time before he stroke that I was with him.

[00:52:54]And then after you know I saw him a number of times. But then one other thing uh u when I was in big su and all the times uh that I was uh there. We're in good we're in good shape. We got time. Uh we're going to do we're going to do questions in a minute by the way.

[00:53:12]And uh and I hope to finish up by the half hour and that'll be good time for everybody. Uh what was I saying? Oh, one of the great things with these little black tapes, these little cassette tapes, and you know how you're doing good service here and you're all doing different things, you're serving in different ways. Well, people around Rhonda said, "Well, what can I do?" And so, they would record him with crude machines and they would just record him.

[00:53:39]And then they'd reproduce these things and sell them at cost. and they buy boxes of these little blank cassette tapes and they'd sell these Ramdas tapes for like 250 and and we I had we just listen to them all the time and and it's wonderful. They're transcribing those now through the Ramdas Foundation, Love, Serve, Remember. And now they're being digitized so you can listen to them. You can listen to them now. But these cassette tapes were being produced and these guys in Santa Cruz, I used to come by and see them and they reproducing them and selling them for two 250. And then they found out people were buying Ramdas tapes and erasing them to record music.

[00:54:23]And the reason was they were cheaper than they could get them at the store.

[00:54:27]So when they got word of that, they advertised that tapes cost 250 with ROMs or blank.

[00:54:37]So people would order Ramdas tape and three blanks. And that's how they got out there so much. So the tapes and I used to write him notes. I don't know how I knew where to write him, but I'd write him from Big Su and I'd always get a reply. you know, always these little cool little messages and they really some of them were just mind-boggling. They were just, you know, transformative. I just And I'm lost most of them, but I've got a number of them over here on those little frames. I dug them up somewhere. And so, uh, I put them in those frames so you can read some of the notes that Ramdas wrote wrote me over the years. So I'm going to say Ramdas would always end by saying namaste.

[00:55:21]I honored the place in you that is the same as a place in me where we both meet. So I say namaste y'all.

[00:55:33]>> Yeah, you're right.

[00:55:35]So, thank you.