Episode 005 - 'Rocket to Russia' Side A Deep Dive

Added: 2026-05-23

[00:00:00]Hey kids, CJ Ramon, world famous Ramones right here. You are watching CJ says, a Ramon's podcast.

[00:00:10]>> One, two, three, >> Hey kids, welcome back to the CJ says podcast.

[00:00:22]Uh, this is going to be our third installment of our deep dive series.

[00:00:27]We are going to go through what is uh probably best known to be the Ramon's definitive record.

[00:00:44]This is the record. This is the one that my uh my brother in arms, Mr. Matt Stocks and I. Matt, how you doing?

[00:00:54]>> I'm doing great. I am ready, CJ, to take a rocket to Russia today.

[00:00:59]>> Let's go. This is the one that that Matt and I both pretty much agree is um is where the Ramones truly hit their stride.

[00:01:10]>> Nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. Uh let's get some stats and facts out the way and then we will begin our deep dive into album number three by Ramones, Rocket to Russia. So, the album was released on November the 4th, 1977, again on Sia Records. It was recorded at Media Sound and Sun Dragon Studios in New York. Again, the production team of Tony, cousin of John Bonjovi and Tommy Raone are back together at the Dials for the production and recording of this album. There's three singles on this one. Uh, Sheen is a punk rocker, Rockaway Beach, and Do You Want to Dance? Bam, bam, bam. Uh, 14 songs again, seven on each side, running time of 31 minutes. So, again, we're looking at an average still of about 2 minutes per song. And the budget for this one, considerably larger than the last two.

[00:02:07]So Ramon's was 6,400, Leave Home was 10 grand, and uh Rocket to Russia an even 30K.

[00:02:17]So you know, there's a there's a lot we can talk about there. I think perhaps because of the popularity of punk.

[00:02:22]Obviously, this is coming hot off the back of the summer of punk and the explosion of this new cultural phenomenon. So perhaps Sai were a bit more ready to part with some more dollars to try and capitalize on this movement. And you know, Tommy and Tony absolutely put that money to the furthest and best use with the sound here. And the Billboard charting of this album 49 as opposed to 148 for Leave Home. So literally it's it's leapt up the charts by 100 positions there or you know take or give or take one. Um, and also importantly, this was the last album to feature Tommy on drums and as an active member in the band before he stepped back and, you know, retired essentially as as a touring and performing member of the band. So, lots to consider there. And as you say, CJ, many consider this rightly so, uh, to be the Raone's masterpiece. It's definitely my favorite.

[00:03:24]Where were you, CJ Raone, if you can recall, when you first heard the record?

[00:03:29]Um, and what was your initial impressions and reactions to Rocket to Russia first time around way back in 1977 or thereabouts?

[00:03:40]>> So, uh, two facts that I want to put up put out up front.

[00:03:45]Second album they released in 1977.

[00:03:51]Two albums in a year. that's these days pretty much unheard of. Um, but also joining the production team on this one was Ed Stasium who um I think uh in no small part made um major contributions to uh the overall sound of the record. Um, but uh, yeah, I think uh, you know, Ed definitely had a lot to do with, you know, with why this record sounds as good as it does. Um, >> was he involved? Was he involved in either of the previous two at all?

[00:04:33]>> Um, I want I want to say he was, but definitely not the first one, right? But um I can't even say definitely not the first one, but I think he was involved somehow with them. Um I know this one he definitely was, but um the uh so before this record came out in the summer of 77. So um other punk bands now are putting records out. So the I I think um what happened was Sia Records realized like uh oh wait a second, you know, we got some competition here and they dropped Sheena is a punk rocker in the summer pre-record release.

[00:05:21]>> Yeah, right. That makes sense because obviously it was that replacement tune on Leave Home as well. So it was there.

[00:05:27]It was ready to go.

[00:05:28]>> Yeah. So, they put that one out during I think that was during that summer. Um uh and and that was the um the first hint that wow, hey, there's going to be another Ramon's record coming out this year, you know. But um uh I definitely the first first thing I heard heard of it at all was on the radio.

[00:05:58]Um, this record got more radio play than the first two. This one definitely got like a little bit um, and I think it's probably because like we like I just said there were the remote competition.

[00:06:11]Before they were the only band doing what they did and now um, now there were other bands somewhat aping their style um, and uh, there was competition. So this uh this one definitely uh got more radio play and um the album cover itself was just as iconic, you know, just as iconic as the first two, you know, but this one like with the, you know, with the, you know, bright pink on the cover and the and the, you know, I now we would call it pixel ated, but the slightly washed out picture of the Ramones, you know, it's really great looking. It was um you know, back in the day, a lot of us bought albums just for the album covers.

[00:07:09]And while I didn't buy that one, obviously just for the album cover, um I did buy it because it looked so cool. I mean, I was already a Ramon's fan, but it looked so cool. the imagery was just was great and they really you know that there was this um you know it's it's the familiarity thing you know you're just familiar with it you love the way it looks and you hear new albums coming out you can't wait to see what the artwork is going to be like artwork used to count for a lot you know what I means to count for a lot because you got this big picture you know and it was like there was so much they could do with it so um While it's of course it's important for a record to sound good, for for the record to be visually appeal appealing was important too and they nailed it.

[00:08:01]They they nailed it on on both parts of that.

[00:08:05]>> Yeah, absolutely. We'll definitely talk more about the uh artwork on on the sidebre episode as well. That's where we tend to kind of get focused in on the the artwork and the title side of things. So, if you're not already, ladies and gentlemen, please do come and uh say hello on Patreon. CJ is going to model the image of the album sleeve right there for all those watching the video on Patreon as we speak as well.

[00:08:27]The Patreon page is the place to go to get the sidebees, bonus rounds of all our guest interviews, and the full video episodes of all our podcasts as well.

[00:08:36]And yeah, I want to just mention some of the other punk rock and roll records that came out in that year because it everybody knows that 77 was the year of punk. But when you start looking at the list of albums that came out that year compared to even just the previous couple, it was a total landslide and just like everything overnight was just getting challenged and flipped. Uh, Sex Pistols, never mind the bollocks. That's 77. The Damned, Damn, Damn, Damned, The Clash, The Clash, Stranglers, Ratus, Norvacus, The Jam, you know, maybe more of a mod quote unquote band, but the first couple of records definitely in that punk rock mold in the City by The Jam came out this year. The Vibrators, Pure Mania. And then from the New York scene, loads of great great records from that CBGB uh contingent also came out in 77. Marky Moon by television, Richard Hell and the Voids Blank Generation and the Dead Boys, Young, Loud, and Snotty.

[00:09:41]So considering Ramones are releasing this record at the end towards the end of this year when all those records have come out, there had to have been CJ, you can shed some light on this, a sense that they had to restake their claim, right? was Johnny and and the the rest of the guys aware of the fact that the rest of the world was now catching up to this, you know, movement that they perhaps had a small part in starting or a large part in starting and and this was their time to say, "Hang about, we were here first. We're still the best.

[00:10:16]Get Rocket to Russia in your ears." Was there a little bit of that psychologically at play with them when they were getting ready to to make and release this record, do you think?

[00:10:25]>> Yeah, definitely. You know, absolutely.

[00:10:29]You know, uh, uh, the way Johnny explained it to me, like they really saw themselves as the, you know, as the leaders of the next musical revolution, like they saw themselves at the front of it. And there was definitely competition between all of the bands, as there always is in any genre of music.

[00:10:52]There's, you know, always uh competition. But that's what competition just like in sports, you know, it fuels great art. You know what I mean? It really does. It fuels great art. You know, there has to be competition. There has to be that thing of, you know, we have to, you know, we have to put out something better than that. We have to, you know, we have to be better than that. Our show's got to be better than that, you know. Um, >> and who benefits from that competition?

[00:11:22]us, the listeners, the fans, everyone's a winner.

[00:11:25]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. And and you But you know, the beautiful thing about it is back then there was so much creativity like all of the bands that you just named musically there there's something um there's a common thread that runs through all of them musically, but they're all very different. They're all very different. The Ramones came out fast, powerful, tight, super professional, you know, you know, well-groomed, you know, just really really just like the the the the textbook um professional band, you know, and even when they were, you know, even when they were first starting out, that's what they were striving for. They wanted to be super polished, you know, to have the look down and everything else, but um you listen to the Sex Pistols and they're not playing fast, you know.

[00:12:30]>> No, it's a mid-tempo album, isn't it?

[00:12:32]Never mind the B for sure.

[00:12:34]>> Yeah, it's it's not fast and and aggressive. It's snarky and snotty and, you know, with really cool guitar riffs and, you know, I I always I always really liked um the baselines on the uh on the Sex Pistol stuff. We talked about this um on how uh the Ramones turned that little halfstep slide that thing. Uh turn that into a punk signature.

[00:13:07]The Sex Pistols pick up on that and they make that part of their uh part of their repertoire. Um, and then you had the Clash who who played a little bit faster, but they pulled reggae influences and and and were and and came out as a political band from jump as did the Sex Pistols.

[00:13:29]Um, uh, the Vibrators, I I love the Vibrators. They're one of my favorites from the UK. So, >> you broke my heart into a thousand little pieces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:40]Yeah. Yeah. I love that album. So good.

[00:13:44]They had more of the the rock and roll feel that the Ramones had. They just didn't play it fast, but they had that real loose rock and roll kind of feel to it. Almost, you know, um New York Dollsish like, you know, snottiness to them. Um, the Jam, funny enough, the Jam to me were more like the Ramones than any of those other bands in that >> totally >> they had the look, they had the sound, they were so tight, they played it, they were real professionals, you know, in my opinion, their their their melody lines were flawless, you know, their everything about them was just so good.

[00:14:26]And they had a real distinct sound, too.

[00:14:29]I, you know, they were they were they were an easy like for me. Um, but yeah, it definitely put uh as a not that the Ramones needed to be more fired up, they were fired up. They wanted their competition to be all the bands that were playing on the radio, but now they've led the charge for all these kids that uh, you know, suddenly well saw the Ramones and was like, "Hey, we can do that." you know, it was you go to see Led Zeppelin, you don't sit there and go, "Oh, yeah, I could play that."

[00:15:00]You know, but you go see the Ramones and you're like, "Well, well, come on. We could do that." You know? Um, and uh uh I think the Ramones went to the UK in 76.

[00:15:14]>> Yeah. I don't I don't know the year, but I do know because a lot of the British bands that appear in the end of the century documentary, >> they all kind of say there was there was the big roundhouse show where Ramones were opening up for someone. I can't remember who. And then they played their own gig in Dingwalls in Camden and and that's where basically all those guys who went on to form the Clash and the Pistols, they all saw the Ramones and they were like, "Oh shit." like, >> yeah, >> that's where we should be heading. And they all say that and it's kind of, you know, documented and and and known um that their appearance in that city at that time. Although it maybe didn't kickstart the movement because it was already already very much in effect. The wheels were in motion, it lit that fire under all those musicians to be like, "Okay, cool. If they can do it, so can we. Let's go."

[00:16:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it was 76. And and like I said, they went over for two shows. Um uh and yet like I've at the uh punk rock museum in Las Vegas where I give tours. I've had you knowve I've met a bunch of people there and you know talked to people who are like oh yeah you know you know we we already had a scene going when the Ramones came over. It's just that after the Ramones came here it just got everybody everyone was like yeah let's go. you know, it just got everybody even more excited. But, um, uh, that's one of the things that I talk about when I give tours at the museum is how, um, the the Ramones, I can't remember who said it, might have been Danny Fields, who said uh, the Ramones were like, um, Johnny Apples Seed where everywhere they went, a a scene would spring up right behind them. you know, people were inspired and they were like, "Yeah, like we can do it. we can own it, you know, we can have our own thing, you know, and um uh and uh uh you know, of course, I've heard all the sto I heard the stories from Johnny about, you know, uh Paul Seon and Joe Strummer and and uh I don't know if it was Jonesy, but um a bunch of a bunch of guys from from all those bands coming to a Raone show and knocked on the dressing room window and were like, "Hey, we don't we don't have money to get in. And Johnny was like, we, you know, we we pulled him in through the window and uh and got him into the show, you know. Um but it's uh >> what a time.

[00:17:53]>> Yeah. Yeah. like what a it to me it's so indicative of that time period that um punk rock would have launched right then because we talked about it already about how you know that that early to mid70s with the death of hippie culture and and um uh and youth culture changing so dramatically. Um, it really it really was a prime all the all the right prime ingredients were there for something like punk rock to to happen.

[00:18:38]Like it's like the kids were like, you know what, the adults don't know what they're doing. So, so they literally treated everything like you know in New York um uh I think it was Lex McNeel said you know New York City in 747576 was an abandoned city. There were huge portions of Manhattan where it was just like really bad. Harley from the Cromax talks about it a lot. He's got a lot of great pictures from uh what his neighborhood looked like when he was a kid. But um like McNeel said, it was like the parents weren't home and we had to set it to ourselves and we could do whatever they want and and that's what we did with it. We created, you know, we created a music scene and a fashion scene and a and an art scene and, you know, because no, the parents weren't home and it it really was a unique time period in history in general.

[00:19:36]And um yeah, and and all all these little punk rock bands stepped into that void of of you know, what's going to be next? What you know, what's happening next? we can't keep, you know, how much more progressive music and and you know, singer songwriter stuff can we possibly listen to, you know, the 60s are over.

[00:19:54]Like what happens next? And that's what happened next was punk rock. You made me think of something there which I've never thought about directly in this way before. But out of the urban rubble and destruction has often come the best artistic movements. When you look at London, England post World War when it was a bomb site and you've got all these kids playing in the rubble who would then go on to become the Who and the Stones and all of those bands. It was exactly the same in New York in the mid70s. It was London and New York and these eras of like decimation and absolute urban squalor. And out of that came an urgent need to rebuild something new. And it it sometime and I think Seattle this happened with the grunge scene there as well. It wasn't necessarily an urban wasteland more of a kind of wet farm rural you know desperation. But there's this idea I think that sometimes it's so much bigger than just the bands and the individuals involved at the time. There's this other alchemic unnameable element where the place, the location, and the time and the people all coaleses into this one lightning in a bottle moment that can never be repeated. And it's like the most beautiful happy accident and set of of coincidence and circumstances that just happen to fall into place at exactly the right time. It's wild, isn't it?

[00:21:36]>> Yeah. Yeah. I it I don't want you know I don't want to make young people think that they have to go out in the world and and suffer or they'll never be able of creating great art unless they've suffered and blah blah blah. But up to this point, most of the great art that has been created has been created by people who lived difficult lives, people who had hard lives. And whether that was self-inflicted, you know, with with uh you know, with uh you know, a lot of writers and and poets, uh you know, were alcoholics and drug addicts and and uh you know, a lot of people in bands from those time periods came up in rough, you know, rough places. They really came up in rough places. and the stuff that they were writing about was very often was stuff that they suffered over. You know what I mean? But even if they weren't, cuz I always felt like, you know, I really like the the UK bands I liked were the non-political bands. My favorite ones. It was the Damned. I loved I I loved the Vibrators. I love the Buzz Cox. I always loved the stuff that was a little bit poppier or a little bit more rock and roll and didn't deal with, you know, with with, you know, the everyday suffering stuff, you know what I mean? And and I I never understood because to me using punk rock as protest music, it's like you're just doing the same thing they did in the 60s, you know, like you know, >> the Beats were the original punks, right?

[00:23:23]>> Yep. Yeah. They they use their art and then it basically the timeline is like Beats, hippies, punks.

[00:23:29]>> They're all the same >> person just in different artistic clothes.

[00:23:35]>> But what I did not understand back then was that the kids in the UK was singing about what they were living every day. You know what I mean? the the pistol was singing about God saved the queen because you know they were like the country the average person in the country lives you know at the poverty level and here we have this you know monarchy that lives in opulence and you know everything they do is celebrated and everything else you know what about the what about the workingclass people what about the everyday people you know why should why should we be cheering for them when they're sitting you know on on golden thrones and we're you know begging for change on the street.

[00:24:18]>> Yeah.

[00:24:18]>> I didn't get that until I went there and I actually met kids from there and talked to them and hung out with them and then it made sense to me. That's what these kids this is what the why the punk rockers were all jumping up and down yelling and screaming about anarchy in the UK and and white riot and all this stuff. You know what I mean? It I I understood it like I at that point I got it. I was like, "Yeah, okay. That makes sense." you know, they were they were they were protesting what what they were, you know, living. They were protesting what they went through on an everyday basis. And while some of it, of course, you know, is Malcolm McLaren and his whole political thing and everything else, um, there was a good number of bands from over there who were singing about political stuff. So, like I said, once I went there and I actually hung out with with regular kids and and and saw what it was like over there, I was like, I get it. I get it. It was a really good lesson. And keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about.

[00:25:19]But it's um >> I hear what you're saying though. For me, the bands that I were always drawn to the most were the Undertones, the Buzz Cox, the Ramones, you know, the Jam Vibrators. Yeah. all those same bands, the damned, for the same reasons that um you know, I don't want to go on too much of a side tangent here, but yes, politics and music has a very valuable place, >> but for me, politics is politics and music is music and and and art is more about politics, yes, but also history and sociology and emotion and love and >> all the other stuff as well. It's like politics is one facet of the full picture. And um Ramon's I think as we've discussed already it's not overt sometimes the messages but it's there from the start and it's smart and it's understated and it's minimal and it's deconstructivist and way more complicated than than a lot of people give them credit for. And um >> this album's just a punk rock and roll masterpiece for me. Um, I think we should dive into the first song and just talk about how great out of the gate the songwriting is. Second only to Blitz Greek Bot as an album opener in the Ramon's whole catalog. I think [ __ ] Hop um or [ __ ] I should say if I'm doing Joey's intonations the justice they deserve. Uh Cretinhop. Um, may maybe the best pogo inducing song that's that's ever been written by any band, not just the Ramones. Um, what's the backstory uh with Cret and Hop and what was this tune like to play in the live shows and what was the response from the audience like to this song because it's just such a staple.

[00:27:15]>> Yeah. Uh, so this is a song written about the fans. This is a song written about because, you know, we're three records in the Ramones have have been touring for a while now and the song they're writing about what they're watching these kids do in front of them and it's a uh >> and there's no stopping them.

[00:27:38]>> Yeah.

[00:27:44]It's uh um we talked about how um you know uh Ramon was a type of person.

[00:27:50]>> Yeah.

[00:27:51]>> This was another song about the behavior. If you're a Raone, this is this is another song about the behavior of the Ramones. But it's um I really I I I really like it. Like the humor on this record is what really stands out to me.

[00:28:07]You know what I mean? like I I think it's almost every song on this record has a humorous undertone to it.

[00:28:14]Whereas, you know, I want to be a boyfriend and you know, the other records had some uh some real sweet spots and and whatnot. I think this record is pretty much humorous side to side. It's like there's >> and that's um a lot of Dee.

[00:28:31]>> That's a lot of Dee Dee.

[00:28:34]>> He seems back in the zone in this album.

[00:28:36]Not that he not that he drifted on the last, but I think I think Ramon's Ramon's nails the whole package, right?

[00:28:43]>> Second album, kickass, great production, great songs, not as much humor, notably not as much humor throughout. Um, and and it's more of a maybe Joey dominated to some extent album in terms of the song, the good songs, but this one Dee is like boom, he's back in the ring, coming out swinging. And uh yeah, he he I think there's something to be said for and you can please shed some light light on this. the healthy competition, not just between bands and their surrounding peers, but internally. The healthy competition that breeds from a band that is starting to gain momentum and there's a couple of strong songwriters in the band and before success and ego and politics and all the other things that start to tear the group apart early on. And there's that sweet spot where they're looking opposite each other and kind of go, "Oh, what's what song's he going to bring in today?" And this element of almost wanting to one up the other guy for the good of the band. Do you think there's a little bit of this going on in Ramones at this point?

[00:29:56]>> Absolutely. Yeah. Because that all they wanted to do was put out the absolute best record that they could. That's all they wanted to do. What whatever the best songs are, that's what we want to make sure gets on the record. And there weren't a lot of ideas that got thrown to the side. I mean, obviously, right, if there was, they all would have been released by now, you know, um, in the in the Richie era later on, there's a couple that didn't get released, but pretty much early on, all the songs that they write were writing were making the record. And it's because they worked so hard on them and they made sure that that they weren't this is this is a lot of Johnny. Okay, this is a lot of Johnny, a lot of Tommy, right?

[00:30:43]>> Ultra ultra focused, ultra ultra directed. Every idea, we use every idea.

[00:30:49]We just make it the best that we possibly can. And you have to remember you're you're talking about guys with limited ability. Like really limited ability. So they have to find ways and and on this record you you really start to hear it where they do these little turnarounds um on part changes and stuff that that you know that without them the song would have sounded overly repetitive and a little bit boring and and predictable. But they find ways to do these little turnarounds that absolutely change the whole feel of the song. and they they've they really start perfecting um their their original style and it's this record is just impressive. Like even now when I listen to it, you know, one, two, three, four credence want to hop some more. You know what I mean?

[00:31:46]It's like four, five, six, seven, all good credence go to heaven. Like genius.

[00:31:52]Like genius, you know?

[00:31:53]>> Genius and hilarious.

[00:31:55]>> Yeah. Yeah. And and and Tommy um uh the drums on the first two records are a bit more understated.

[00:32:08]>> They're a bit more understated. I love it. I'm a bass player and Tommy plays with swing and he plays to the song. But on this record, I feel like the drums are are featured at least as much as the guitar and the bass are like on this record.

[00:32:30]Suddenly, like Tommy kind of comes into his own, but he's been, you know, he's been playing drums for a while now and they've been touring and the band is so hot at this point. They're so sharp.

[00:32:41]>> Yeah. that that the the um I I really think like the Tommy's playing um becomes his style becomes fully formed on this record. Like this is punk rock drumming 101. Like this is where every drummer starts that plays punk rock now, you know, later on um is this is this style that Tommy has developed. So now rather than playing to the song, he's really playing the drums. Now he's like he's really playing and that's um I it's like you know he steps out of the shadows does you know what I think is his best drumming and then steps away from the drums after this record.

[00:33:27]>> Well talking of like peak punk rock and roll drumming. Rockaway Beach track two.

[00:33:34]The drums in this song like driving momentum. I don't drive right CJ.

[00:33:40]Shamefully I don't have a driver's license. If I did, this would be the kind of song that would make me want to drive 100 miles an hour >> down the highway just in search of nothing but speed. Rockaway Beach DD Ramon single on the album. Top tier Ramon's tune for me. An elite song. This had to be one of the most fun songs for you guys to play live. Had to be >> chewing out a rhythm on my bubble gum.

[00:34:14]Like who would you know who who h how does that thought process start? Like yeah, that sounds like a good song rhythm. I mean, a a good song lyric, chewing out a rhythm on my bubble gum. It's like De's ability to take the everyday mundane stuff that a teenager would be doing at the time and turning it into poetic lyrics.

[00:34:44]>> Yeah.

[00:34:44]>> Just such a beautiful knack uh to be able to do that, you know.

[00:34:52]uh the this song uh this song lyrically uh because if and especially if you're from Queens or if you ever hung out there or you if you've been there been to Rockaway Beach tell us just for the uninitiated for Brits like myself. Uh I I envision Rockaway Beach as kind of being a bit like what Brighton was for guys from London. like you escape to the pebbly beach, not for the sun and the sand, but the sense of sort of I don't know, kit escapist fun. Um, >> yeah.

[00:35:28]>> Is that close?

[00:35:29]>> That's Yeah, that's it. That totally it.

[00:35:32]Because if you live in Queens, um you know, Rockaway Beach pretty much is it unless you go out to Long Island, you go to Jones Beach or um um Yeah, that that that's pretty much it.

[00:35:48]>> That's it. Yeah.

[00:35:49]>> Yeah. There there's not a whole lot. I mean, you know, there's Sheep's Head Bay and Brooklyn and stuff, but um Canasi, I guess. But uh um taking the bus to go to the beach, you know what I mean? And h it it it's so the picture that he paints with the words is just and and he does it in in not in pretty flowery terms or he just does it in that really good like a teenager. He had such a great thing for um uh um for making you see things through a teenager's eyes, you know what I mean? Literally, the Beach Boys were always good at that. You know what I mean? Like they the Beach Boys had that down. They were really good at it.

[00:36:40]But Dee takes it kind of a step further in that he, you know, uh, he makes it specific to what it's like in New York in Queens. Yeah.

[00:36:54]>> In Queens in particular, you know. So, >> uh, uh, uh, um, you know, they blast out the disco on the radio, like all of that stuff. Like that's how it was back in the day. Like you know, >> specifically 1977 as well because of Saturday Night Fever.

[00:37:12]Like it's so of that exact moment in time.

[00:37:16]>> Yep. And and and the kids would have their boom boxes out and they they'd be playing. It wasn't all, you know, it wasn't necessarily always disco, but it was dance music or something like that, you know. And like, you know, for for us kids, like rocker kids and stuff, it would be like, "Oh god, turn that crap off." You know what I mean? But he captures it all. He captures it all.

[00:37:41]>> It's um But it's a great song and really fun to play, too. But you're right, Tommy act really makes this song cook with his drum with his drumming. really really does a a job a great job of carrying the song.

[00:37:58]>> I love when it stops as well and you think the song's over and it goes boom and back in.

[00:38:03]>> Yeah. You're like, "Oh, >> yeah."

[00:38:06]>> toying with us. And then they kind of repeat the great formula which they in introduced with Leave Home where it's like album opener fast song. Track two even faster song and then track three immediately shift gears. Go to go straight to the love song here today gone tomorrow. Track three Joey Raone. I would say maybe the first truly sad Raone song, like an ode to heartbreak, slow, really painstakingly told through the lyrics and the vocal delivery and and beautiful sad pop perfection as CJ has a sip of Guinness there.

[00:38:51]Hey. Hey. Um, so, uh, from from what I was told, from what I understand, this was the first song that Joey Raone ever wrote.

[00:39:02]>> Oh, wow.

[00:39:04]>> And, um, it was uh, considered for the first and the second record.

[00:39:11]Um, but I think they felt like it was too much of a kind of a downer song, you know, >> cuz it is. But >> yes, >> so so beautifully done.

[00:39:23]>> Oh yeah, Joey could absolutely, you know, bring you to tears. And the way he sings it um is like like he sings it like he means every single word. There's not a wasted word in the song, you know?

[00:39:44]>> Yeah. And at the very end he goes, "Someone had to pay the price, you know, and he kind of drags it out a little bit." Oh man, it's the first time I heard it, I was like, it was it was like devastating to listen to, you know, it was like, oh my god.

[00:40:03]But beautiful nonetheless. And it it it kind of hinted at the type of stuff that Joey um that Joey really enjoyed writing, you know what I mean? Because he he he, you know, he he goes down that road. He goes back to that type of style multiple times over over his career. And um but that's kind of the fir the fir from what I understand that's the first one he wrote. And I kind of feel like that's that's kind of more in line with Joey's style, what he like what he would have liked to have been doing.

[00:40:40]>> Do you know what I would have loved to have heard is a full Joey Raone Frank Sinatra style kuna album. Like if he'd done it as a as a side solo project and just sung all these real slow Sinatraesque kind of booze soaked heartache ballads in in the Joey Raone style. That would have been a hell of a record >> when um when he started uh tracking doing uh tracking for his uh first record that he put really his only record that he put out. Um I I I was talking to him about some of the stuff he had played me. Um he had played me. What a wonderful world. and um one other one and uh and I I I said to him I was like, "Yeah, you're going to do you're going to do a punk rock record for your your first solo record?"

[00:41:44]And he was like, "Yeah, you know, that's you know, that's that's, you know, that's what the fans want." And, you know, I have some songs that I would have liked to have, you know, gotten on a Ramon's record. They're good songs.

[00:41:56]Um, and I was like, I I thought you were going to go, you know, do something different. I thought you were going to go a different route. Because when he did his solo stuff, he used to I mean, when he did his like private shows and stuff with his friends, he always, you know, you know, he would rather do uh, you know, R&B stuff almost, you know, stuff like that, you know. And I thought he would I thought he was gonna take the opportunity to like jump in the studio and you know go in with Ronnie Spectre and and uh you know maybe Chris and Tina from the talking heads or got in the studio with some people from outside the punk rock community and and did some something different you know but um no he he he was like no I'm I'm going to do a punk rock record you know I want to do a punk rock but my kind of punk rock, you know, I was like, "Yeah, okay."

[00:42:53]But he definitely had the voice for it, you know. He definitely had the voice for it. But the other thing is too, I think I said it before, um, he was diagnosed in 94. So, you know, by the time the Ramones retired, he was he was tired.

[00:43:08]>> Yeah, >> he was tired. And I guess it was um doing a punk rock record was easier than trying to reinvent himself and and you know go down a different route at that point. I think he he wanted to just make a statement when the Ramones ended, you know, and then maybe take it from there. But yeah, great song. Love the song. In fact, this is also another one of the songs that when I started touring as a CJ Raone, this is another one I made sure I put in the set.

[00:43:40]>> Hell yeah, dude. I need I need a private CJ Raone solo set >> in my lounge tonight. All the songs that I've really kind of fell in love with.

[00:43:53]>> Yeah. I was vaguely familiar with a lot of these deep cuts before, but I think, you know, when you're listening to the highpaced fun stuff, they can, you know, overshadow and and since discovering really track by track the value and and characters of each one, all the ones that we've spoken about, which are these kind of songs, every single one you've said, "Oh, yeah. I started playing that in my solo songs." So good, man. So good.

[00:44:17]>> Yeah. You know, there's the big songs, the big hits. I mean, there's there's not a whole lot that that we're going to say about them that hasn't been said, you know what I mean? I can I can offer up, you know, the the stuff that went that I talked to the band about and all that, you know, to keep it interesting, but it's songs like this >> that the band didn't play live that I had a real connection to that I later played in my set that bring me the most joy that that when I listen to this album now, like that song is one of my favorite songs when I listen to the record now. You know what I mean? Like literally the the the hits are the hits and they're great and and God love them.

[00:44:57]They they pumped out a whole bunch of albums worth of them, but it's th those little um you know the it's those those more um the deeper cuts, the more heartfelt stuff that I've always been drawn to and included in my set. If you if you came to a CJ Ramon show um from 2012 up to 2019, I played so many deep cuts in the set like and did and and people would always come up to me and be like I always wanted to hear them play that live, you know, it's so cool that you include it in the set. I'm like I'm a biggest Raone fan as you are. You know what I mean?

[00:45:36]I'm playing the songs that, you know, I know all the fans are like, "Oh, you know, it should have been in there." But that one would have been tough to do live, but it would have been really cool. It It really would have been cool to throw that in there.

[00:45:48]>> Well, talking of deep cuts, I don't know how deep this next one is, but I wouldn't associate it with the more well-known stuff. This is one of my favorite Ramon songs. Um, it was the first time I heard it. I remember I first heard it when I heard this album all the way through for the first time.

[00:46:04]My introduction to the Ramones was a double CD best of, right? very basic entry level as a lot of people's are with with bands when you're growing up and and I loved every song on the double disc and there's lots of different styles throughout it from the early stuff all the way to like Pet Cemetery and I was like wow this is a way more complex band than I ever thought and so started going into individual albums Lockit Lockit Love pops up and I'm like how is this not a single how is this not like an international hit such a good tune DD Ramon on fine fine form as a songwriter here.

[00:46:42]A great pop song and a lot of people as we've discussed in previous albums, people when they think of DD and the songs that he wrote, you know, maybe go more towards like now I want to sniff some glue and 53rd and third and but Locket Love, man, this is as good as a punk pop love song as you'll find.

[00:47:01]So, I I mentioned earlier about how they try to do these little turnarounds and and and do things to keep everything from sounding too formulaic.

[00:47:12]And on this one, they they pull off a cool little part like that, you know, because you would think that um you know, hang on a little bit longer, hang on, you're more you would think the song would be called hang on, right? because it it that sounds like the chorus, >> but they take they take the first line from the verse and they're like, >> "Oh, yeah. It's going to be called Lock It Love." You know what I mean? And they do have that cool little turnaround part. And I really like what they do in that in that one part in particular that hang on a little bit longer.

[00:47:48]Like the little guitar break they that they do in there, too. It's like they just do it twice and then they jump to the next part. They they they were doing all these cool little things that were that they had not done or that they started experimenting with on um Leave Home. But on this record, they realize like >> ah that's the trick. That's the trick.

[00:48:12]We have to just throw these little things in cuz otherwise you're just busting out three, you know, three chords, you know, next three chord part, back to that three chord part. Do this twice and go. And now they got they they get that thing down of, oh, we need a little turnaround right there. And you know, uh, you know, a a cool break and they really nailed their style. Really really got it nailed down on this one.

[00:48:39]But that song Locket Love. Yeah. Like it's amazing to me. amazing that in the 70s in the 1970s when their competition was Saturday Night Fever or or like you know the singer songwriter stuff and not that it was bad but you know um what what else would have been out like that >> Fleetwood Mac rumors huge around that time.

[00:49:10]>> Yeah. like all of this the all this other stuff that was popular music. How these songs did not make it onto the radio.

[00:49:22]>> I know >> to any large degree or that that more people weren't listening to it is amazing to me.

[00:49:29]>> Yeah.

[00:49:29]>> It it it just amazes me. But um you could hear on the radio, you could hear you can go your own way straight into Locket Love and it would not be jarring at all.

[00:49:43]>> No. No. No. Not at all. But um I was always of the opinion that punk rock was just very ahead of its time. It was really ahead of its time. Like people did not um people had were since the 60s people were spoonfed all this really high-end music where the players were exceptional where the songs were extra long. It was either that or you were listening to um pop music. But when you consider like Slade, the Bay City Rollers, or like all this great pop music that came out of the UK, you know what I mean? Um, T-Rex and like some of that real sweet Oh god, like that that type of stuff. How did punk rock not piggyback on that and become like the dominant musical style? You know, how did that >> I think I have a thought as to why. I think the Sex Pistols ruined it for everyone. I think they went on Bill Grundy, they swore, which then was just so shocking. Um, yeah. And I think the controversy and the scandal around that band >> turned mainstream America and Britain off punk because they they just took one look at, you know, the Ramones or Sid Vicious or whatever and just went, "Nah, I'm not having any part of that. We don't want that here." And and I I do think there's something to be said for this album coming out in the wake of all of that.

[00:51:30]Yep. phenomenon of just, you know, shocking shocking kind of like criminal degenerate scandalous behavior that was the focal point of the press and their coverage of of what punk was and and maybe that damaged more popularleaning bands like Ramones.

[00:51:50]>> Sure. And and you are not incorrect.

[00:51:53]That is absolutely what happened. Um, uh, I had a story told to me by somebody from a popular band in that time period, um, who, uh, who was called up to the offices of their record company and given a speech.

[00:52:16]I'm going to tell this story. Uh, >> leave the name of the individual out.

[00:52:20]Well, I I I'll tell this story over on Patreon when we when we go to the artwork because it ties because it ties in. Okay. But um >> but yeah, that you are not incorrect and there was a concerted effort to subvert punk rock and replace it with new wave.

[00:52:39]>> Right. Okay. Great. Well, if that isn't enough of a reason to sign up to Patreon, ladies and gentlemen, if you're not already there, then you heard it first here from CJ's very mouth. CJ says is the place to go. patreon.com/cj says for part B of our deep dive where all will be revealed. Um, okay dude.

[00:52:59]Well, listen. Uh, we have three songs left on A. Still a lot to talk about and track five for me.

[00:53:07]>> Tell me what you think about this.

[00:53:08]Whether I'm reaching too far cuz you can have a tendency to do that when you're getting swept up in the excitement of a record like this. I'm listening to this song. I don't care. And I'm listening to the cynical detachment in the vocal delivery and the kind of sludgy guitar.

[00:53:28]And I'm thinking this is an obvious precursor to Nana. And I'm thinking I would be very surprised if Kurt was not a huge fan of this song in particular.

[00:53:40]you know, thinking about Nana songs like In Bloom and the kind of cultural commentary from a place of detachment that's like disgusted and and disinterested. Um, that attitude in the lyrics, the vocal delivery, and the guitar tone, which is way different to a lot of the other songs on the album. All of those elements for me seem like they could be a seed um in some form of of the you know latter day grunge movement.

[00:54:10]What do you think?

[00:54:13]>> I could see that. I I mean Kurt Cobain was definitely a uh Ramon's fan. We um we did a festival out in like Scandinavia or something like that going back to 94 I think it was and uh our flight landed late and we got over to the um the site real late and we walked into the um into the uh the uh the mess tent, the kitchen food area, whatever. And uh there were a bunch of tables and then there was a big giant table in the middle and it had our name tag on it.

[00:54:53]Each name each table had a name tag from a band. And then right next to it was a table with Nirvana's name on it.

[00:55:04]And we walked in and we were with the promoter and I I said I said to Monty I go Nirvana's headlining. how do we have the big table? And the promoter said Kurt Cobain came in and switched those name tags.

[00:55:21]And it was like such a cool tip of the hat from him to the Ramones. You know what I mean? Well, you know, we didn't meet him that day or anything, but um but it was like a really cool uh you know, I looked at Joey and Johnny to see what their reactions would be because they always um looked at their um success through the lens of how many records they sold and how big their bank account was. Like that was, you know, that was kind of how they looked at it. And I had always, you know, I I think I said this before. I told Johnny several times in conversations, you can't measure your success that way. You have to measure your success by the influence that you've had on, you know, entire musical genres, you know. And um I always try like in in times like that, I always try to look at them and and see, you know, if it if it made them think think about it a little bit differently or if they were would be impressed by it or whatever, you know.

[00:56:32]>> That's a beautiful story, man. That's really lovely.

[00:56:35]>> Yeah. And and Johnny said uh when the promoter said that, Johnny went, "Oh, that's nice."

[00:56:43]You know, that was that was that was as much as you would get out of Johnny.

[00:56:48]Like if something was cool or or he agreed with something, he'd be like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, all right. I could see that." You know, but um yeah, but that was a that was a nice little tip of the hat. Um, but this song, you know, uh, uh, they take like what is probably what was probably, you know, like a real sincere thing, like I'm just done. I don't care about the world. I don't care about that girl. I I I just don't care anymore. They take that and, you know, they add in, he don't care.

[00:57:27]>> You know what I mean? underscores the irony so well.

[00:57:30]>> Yeah, they have they even have to poke fun at at that. You know what I mean?

[00:57:35]Like um >> Yeah.

[00:57:38]>> Uh uh. And but that's how they were like that's that's that's how they and that's how they were to each other. Like if you showed any kind of emotion, you know what I mean? At all like they would be on you like immediately, you know? Oh, what's the matter? You can't handle it?

[00:57:54]Oh, what's the matter? Oh, you going to cry? You know what I mean? Like that type of thing. they were re hard like that hard. In fact, Tommy listed that as the reason why he stopped touring was because he really struggled when they were on the road. Like he was really having trouble keeping his himself organized and he was suffering, you know, and and Dee and Johnny were just relentless, you know. they would like, you know, they would play pranks on him and like pick on him the whole time and everything and that's why he stopped touring, you know, but that that's just that was the culture in the band. And uh so so for them to like take that song and those lyrics and and and take it from being like somebody who's really kind of like on the edge of a mental break, right? I I can't deal with the world and I can't deal with her anymore.

[00:58:49]I don't care about anything, you know.

[00:58:52]He don't care, you know, like just poking fun at it.

[00:58:57]>> And a Joey song again showing his great humor.

[00:59:03]>> Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And to tell you the truth, Joey may have wanted it to be more like Here today, Gone Tomorrow.

[00:59:11]>> Right. Right.

[00:59:12]>> He may have wanted it to be another song like that, you know, and they were like, "Yeah, no, we're going to make fun of it.

[00:59:20]Uh, track six, penultimate song on side A. I mean, to backtrack for me, every song so far a crusher. Just absolute no filler whatsoever. Every tune. And then the fact that this the next single uh comes in next. Um, I talked about this briefly in the Leave Home Deep Dive because it obviously featured as a replacement track to Carbon and Not Glue, but the Beach Boys and the Girl group influence just on full display for this one. And I would personally, I don't know whether it's the best, but I would put this song up there with Sedated and Blitz Grig as like the top tier holy trinity of three most internationally recognizable.

[01:00:06]um Ramon's hits and it's just again it's a legit hit this isn't it? It was a single. How was it not a hit? I know it might have been a a version of a hit for them but >> could have been so much more. Should have been massive.

[01:00:22]>> This is the one they put out early uh before the record came out. This is the song that they put out as a single in the summer of 77.

[01:00:30]>> They put this out before the record actually came out. Um, but the uh like if you wanted if somebody asked you what are the Ramones like what you know what are the Ramones like? This is one of the songs you could put this on and say this is what the Ramones are like because it contains everything.

[01:00:50]>> Yeah. you know, the musical style, the cool little turnarounds that they do in the song, the lyrics, the fact that they're writing about their fans, about the the kids they see in front of them, you know, making up characters, you know, based on everything that they're seeing. Um, this is one of those songs.

[01:01:09]And of course, it's, you know, easily one of the most requested Raone songs.

[01:01:14]>> I bet. Can I ask you CJ, was Judy, Suzy, or Sheena, were any of these real women on the scene or they all sort of composites of of collective types? Were there any that were individually inspired by any unique people around? I think um I think there might I vaguely remember a story about um uh about Sheena I think I think I I vaguely remember a story about Sheena being a real person.

[01:01:59]Uh, but it's, yeah, it's entirely possible that they all were, you know what I mean?

[01:02:07]Entirely possible that they all because you got to remember the punk scene was fairly small.

[01:02:13]>> Fairly small, you know what I mean? Like it was fairly small. So, you know, for for for uh for them to to actually use friends in some of their songs, I think the the stories are definitely conglomerations and a lot of it is just invented crazy stuff.

[01:02:34]>> Yeah.

[01:02:34]>> But um >> uh that's a good question. I'll have to ask Linda. Linda Ramon.

[01:02:40]>> Yeah, we we'll have to get her on and ask. And >> yeah, >> one of my if not my favorite ever bouncing soul song is Lean on Sheena.

[01:02:49]Uh, and there's just something about that name for me. It's such an it's such an American name. You know, you you'd never meet anybody in England or Scotland, I don't think, called Sheena.

[01:03:00]And I think that's what makes it's what makes it so captivating to an international audience listening from outside the States, you know, like Suzy and Judy and Sheena. They just like cool rockabilly sounding names, aren't they?

[01:03:15]>> They they just had that knack, like I said, you know, they just had that ability to to to um reference the the the teenage the teenage uh culture in the United States. They just had such a cool way of doing it lyrically.

[01:03:39]>> Amen. Well, let's close side A of Rocket to Russia with just an amazing side closer. Like top to bottom, side A perfection for me. Uh we were laughing about this one with Dove McCagan, specifically the line, "Daddy loves men." Um we're a happy family we're talking about here. um that whole suburban disenfranchised youthful fan base that they were tapping into. This is one of those songs that speaks so directly to that experience.

[01:04:15]You know, Pistols and the Clash had politics and anger. Ramones had this subtle, satirical, sociological, observational approach to songwriting.

[01:04:28]And um this one is just it's so on the money, isn't it?

[01:04:33]>> It plays it uh it plays to the recurring theme of being an outcast, being a freak, not living, you know, about living in a world that is just totally crazy.

[01:04:48]>> Nothing nothing normal in it.

[01:04:50]>> Yeah. you know uh um daddy's telling lies his baby's eating flies you know like so that was like in New York you know that was like a a joke because like um um in the in the windows if you didn't have air conditioning the windows would be open and the flies would would get in the house and they would fly to the windows and eye inside the window things and little kids that that that that was the joke. You know what I mean? Like you either eating lead chips that were making you, you know, your brain not operate or you were eating dead flies in the window sills. You know, they the stuff that they captured is just so bizarre because it's so unbelievably true. And but you know, if you grew up like that, that was just like normal. that was like, "Oh, yeah, that's normal." And that's what they were that's really what they're getting across. It's like we we really grew up in a crazy place in a crazy time period, you know? It's like it's so perfect. It really is. It's just perfect at the the way they describe things. And and I think it's the um one of the the big attractions to the Ramones is that is capturing all that craziness from everyday life and and and turning it into a joke. Like most people would be like, "Oh, that's horrible. You grew up in a a house where your siblings ate dead flies out of a window sill."

[01:06:34]Yeah, but everybody's everybody's siblings did. You know what I mean?

[01:06:40]>> Yeah.

[01:06:41]>> Just another day in Queens.

[01:06:43]>> Yeah. And and this song could have easily closed the record out.

[01:06:47]>> Yeah. Like we were saying with Pin Head Off Leave Home. very very with the kind of voice sound effecty overdub, >> you know, things flying in as well because it's a long fade. And it is it's it's a record closer, but they just decided to close the first half with it because they've they've got so much more in store awaiting uh listeners who are getting ready to flip over the record to side B, which we'll be doing now and going over to Patreon to continue the discussion. So yeah, if you're not already, >> head over there now and come with us as we take a deep dive on side B of the masterful third Ramon's album, >> Rocket to Russia. CJ, before we say goodbye on here, uh, we have to select one song each as our favorite to best represent SID of Rocket to Russia in our ongoing Ramon's playlist. I'll let you go first as always. Um, it's a tricky one. This one a really hard pick with so many great ones to choose. But uh which way are you leaning toward my friend?

[01:07:51]>> Rockaway Beach.

[01:07:55]>> I wanted that one so bad.

[01:07:57]>> Yeah.

[01:07:58]>> Unstoppable, isn't it? Unstoppable.

[01:08:00]Unbeatable.

[01:08:02]>> Yeah, my definitely. And and you know the whole this whole side of the record is great. Here today, gone tomorrow. I could have easily picked, but in in um picking Ramon songs, um Rocka Away Beach is really that that was one of my favorite songs to play live and and my one of my favorite songs on the record to listen to. So, >> well, that would have been mine and I absolutely back that choice. So, I I can't do Sheena because it's it's too wellknown and I'm not trying to be different. I just feel like to showcase the lesser known and celebrate the overlooked for me it has to be Locket Love. So, I'm going to put Lockit Love.

[01:08:45]>> Yeah, good pick >> on my playlist cuz I adore that song and uh I think more people should should love it and and sing about it. So, um there we go. Rockaway Beach and Lockit Love are picks for side A. Uh dude, thank you. That was an absolute treat.

[01:09:01]And I still actually think in some ways the best songs are are yet to come on side B as well. But man, what a what an opening half to an absolute stone cold 10 out of 10 record as far as I'm concerned.

[01:09:15]>> Yeah, this is um this is uh definitely like we said, this is definitely the record where the Ramones come into their own, where they really hit their stride.

[01:09:27]>> Hey ho, let's go. See you for side B on Patreon, dude.

[01:09:39]>> I can't wait to be with you tomorrow.

[01:09:44]>> All right, guys. That was side A of our deep dive series. If you're interested in hearing Matt and I's review on side B, head over to patreon.com CJ says. We hope to see you guys on the next