Ancient Theory Proves That Suffering Doesn't Exist | The Game of Life Explained by Himalayan Monk

Added: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]What is the purpose of human birth? At the highest level, the purpose is to realize God here and now. I know that the purpose of my life is to experience joy and happiness. If you [music] emotionally look at consciousness, then you feel that this presence of God around me all the time. And therefore to me God is consciousness and consciousness is God.

[00:00:22]Can you first break us down on how Vidant [music] can actually eradicate in a sense that suffering? suffering that comes from the mind. This suffering can completely be eradicated with nana yoga completely with meditation. There is a witnessing consciousness bond. That means there will be a deep level of awareness bond.

[00:00:41]And this sakshi bha now becomes like a big spiritual me inside me which will watch the other me going through all the vagaries of life. So if I am suffering due to something, this me knows how to take care of her. It is a systematic death of a unreal experience in the light of reality.

[00:01:04]We're so conditioned to be fearful of death. It's one of the biggest fears of of human beings. When you say we don't die, why is that true? When the vidantic truth seeps deep into every cell of your body, you understand the eternity of life, [music] you understand that disease and death are an illusion.

[00:01:22]atma sashwata. So the detachment from the body suffering also happens automatically.

[00:01:30]A lot of non-dualists refer to this life as almost like a dream. Would you agree with that statement? This is a dream and it's an illusion and it's [music] God's doing this realm earth. It's not the only realm. There are different locas or dimensions. [music] You see everything is experienced through the mind. The mind can stretch to many dimensions beyond. the mind can experience parallel realities.

[00:01:58]Before we start this podcast, I just want to make one humble request. If you haven't already, please do subscribe to this channel and press the notifications bell icon. This really helps us bring more guests to the show and have the platform to spread wisdom. Thank you and enjoy the podcast. Namaste Mansa. Thank you so much for joining us on Under the Tree. I've been watching a lot of your talks and interviews. So, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[00:02:24]>> Thank you, Amira. It's it's my pleasure as well. It's very nice to see both of you very spiritual and uh it's heartening. Absolutely lovely.

[00:02:36]>> Thank you so much. So, I have jotted down a lot of topics uh I want to discuss with you. But uh let's start off with just the basics and then we'll go deeper. Um if you had someone asked you that what is the purpose of human birth? Uh why are we here? Why have we been given the birth as human beings? What would your response to that be?

[00:02:58]>> Well, there are there are levels of this answer. You know at the highest level the purpose is to realize God. You know we in the Indian ethos in the Indian tradition we believe that uh the souls are separated from the universal consciousness and they begin the journey on earth and uh through various kingdoms we say through various uh births through the earth kingdom plant kingdom animal kingdom we arrive at the human kingdom and uh in the human kingdom the possibility of awakening is there where there is a soul calling and there is a soul's awakening that prompts you to realize your true self and uh when we realize this true self the purpose is solved the purpose is done and then we are liberated and we go back into the universal consciousness this is the higher and the more philosophical um meaning of what is the purpose of life but if you ask me as an ordinary person living ordinary life in the ordinary world. The purpose of life is to realize the wasness and greatness um awesomeness of this entire creation to realize God's functioning in every iota and every grain of this universe to come in perfect sync with nature and this uh creative force which is around us to create lot of exuberance in your life happiness and joy for yourself and others in this life and not really worry or bother about moka you know as long as you're life you need to learn how to live life uh tremendously well beautifully and uh this is the purpose you know if you have to ask yourself what is my purpose and if you keep searching for the purpose the end of the life also you'll never find a purpose >> here and now I know that the purpose of my life is to experience joy and happiness and joy and happiness not through any intoxications or any artificial uh you know things around me but to find joy and happiness in my very living, in my very breathing, in my very isness of life, in the very flow of life, in where I am right now, I need to find joy and happiness. And this becomes a pursuit, then the purpose is absolved.

[00:05:18]Absolutely.

[00:05:20]>> And when you can you define happiness because happiness is something whatever whatever we're doing is technically for happiness.

[00:05:29]>> Yes, happiness is is more a generic word. You know pleasure is also called happiness which it is not you know. So when we talk of something that you feel really nice about externally um through the senses the body pleasure is not happiness that gives you a kind of a feeling of happiness for a few moments you know for for a few moments for a few minutes for a few hours etc. Deeper level happiness is that of the mind. You know when the mind is is is kind of a a singing energy and when the mind is like fluttering like butterflies or the mind is feeling very high then we use the word happiness you know which is again not real happiness. It is again momentary because mind is an oscillation all the time and the uh the inner antarma can oscillate from sadness to happiness any time you know and so it is dependent on the senses the mind's happiness is dependent on the senses and all the external stimuli you know so that's also not permanent so we go deeper into understanding what is happiness that can be a permanent and a constant flow you know of a feeling it's again a feeling you And that comes with a inner uh knowing of truth. That happiness can be found only with the inner knowing of truth. And that is a constant. Then things that are variables outside will continue. You know, situations will continue to be either good or not good, profitable or not profitable, you know, in favor of us or not favor uh favorable to us.

[00:07:05]Irrespective of all the oscillations, this state that you come into a realization, you know, this feeling that you come to in uh with with this deep knowing of the truth, this is permanent happiness, you know, the joy of knowing your true self. First of all, again, this permanent happiness which is residing inside comes in stages.

[00:07:26]>> A it is the joy of knowing yourself, who you are, how you are and the joy of accepting yourself, who you are, how you are. to rising into knowing your true self which is the Brahman in you or the God in you. And this knowing of Brahman and God inside you cannot happen without you accepting God in and around you.

[00:07:48]When you fall completely in love with God outside of you in nature and you understand the working force of God in every iota and grain of nature, then this realization comes that I am a part of nature and this God is in me as well.

[00:08:02]>> Right? And when you start getting in touch with this God inside you, then you come in a flow, a a flow and a feeling which is constant. I can call this happiness.

[00:08:13]Yes. It's not momentary. It's a constant being. It doesn't come and go.

[00:08:19]>> No, it doesn't come and go. It's it's always there. Going back to uh the first question I had about the purpose of human birth. So I guess the first one of the many questions that comes up when we discuss about this is that why did we our true nature as consciousness or Brahman forget our true nature to then come back and experience these lives as humans as other types of beings. So why did that cycle actually start? where they say God is playing a game with us and we have are wholeheartedly participating in the game and the souls are uh Brahman and the Brahman is playing a game with Brahman that means it's like uh a body of water you know is splashing out water and playing with these waves and playing with these droplets of water. Souls are like droplets one droplet of water out of a big bowl of water. Souls are like that.

[00:09:19]So when soul starts the journey it enters into a promise that it it agrees that I'll go into a slumber and I'll forget my you know my truth and that's the game the beginning of the game and the game then goes on for many many thousands of years where the soul's journey has gone in a slumber. The soul has forgotten. He is God. He is Brahman.

[00:09:40]And when it arrives at a very evolved human nature there, there's awakening.

[00:09:45]There's a kind of a calling that comes from inside. And uh the questioning of who am I starts and when that inquiry starts then from external to internal then the inquiry takes the person into understanding the truth which is inside.

[00:10:02]So even when he theoretically realizes that I am Brahman and my reality is the same as Brahman, you know, even then the the story does not end because it goes into intense practices for him to understand and to experience that he and Brahman are one. So the advatic truth what we say it takes a long long time.

[00:10:24]It's a destination. Dwight is the path.

[00:10:30]>> Okay. So we are going to be talking about consciousness throughout the conversation as you've already done. So can you define consciousness first for the listeners who might not be familiar with that term? Well, literal meaning of word consciousness is kind of um complete yet incomplete because it's the isness exist exist s it is just there all right so when I try to explain this to myself I always say it's like potential energy energy which is just there but having no activity >> not manif not not having any activity there is immense capability embedded inside there is it's pregnant with a lot of uh ability but nothing is manifested you know so consciousness has to take uh on to another form to be able to manifest the world which it does you know consciousness takes movement in it brings kinetic movement in it shi is is to come out you know and then the creation happens so throughout the journey of consciousness just being what it is and then the shy bringing momentum and movement in it to the creation process and the existence process. You know throughout this process consciousness is just there. Even in existence as it is today you know when you see nature when you see you me all animals everything consciousness is just there. It's just there. It's like a presence that is never shaking. It's like a presence that is not emotional.

[00:12:08]It's a presence that is not having any churning in it and the shy inside is doing all that is manifesting and all that we are visualizing. So the consciousness is just there right from the onset of the creation to the creation itself and will always be there even when dissolution is there.

[00:12:29]It's only there. Its presence is only there. Its energy potential in nature and never has any moment in it. And it is fathomless. It is eternal. It will always be there. That's why it is called s.

[00:12:43]>> There's a non-dual teacher Rupert Spyra who often uses example of space. Of course, space is also inside consciousness. But for people to get a good understanding.

[00:12:52]>> Yes. A good understanding of it.

[00:12:54]Absolutely. There's space here. Even if I have an empty bowl, there's space in it.

[00:12:57]>> Mhm.

[00:12:58]>> Yes. And things can move around, but that will remain as that existence.

[00:13:02]>> Yes.

[00:13:04]So this knowledge what we're discussing right now um first can you talk about how you were introduced to this and for you was it also a path from baki or from other approaches and then you went into vant or how or did you meet your guru and you were introduced to it? Yes, for me um it's it's been a very rejoiceful and a very joyous journey. Um beginning from healing uh you know I was very interested in healing and transmission of energy that can create change. You know the the entire concept of uh resonance and entrainment has always fascinated me. If I can resonate with a high frequency energy and touch someone and that someone gets comfort, it really interested me. That's how my journey started with healing and a deep understanding of nature and uh energy and uh slowly it went into understanding the isness of life. You know the isness of life which is such a constant irrespective of the day and night irrespective of the seasons irrespective of birth and death you know and there is this isness and this feeling constant feeling I've been blessed to experience this isness from the beginning of my life I've always felt there is something constantly there >> you know that and I called it presence of god which truly it is if you emotionally look at consciousness if you emotionally look at consciousness with Then you feel that this presence of God around me all the time you know and therefore to me God is consciousness and consciousness is God and this isness um uh was felt and uh it drew me towards uh the study of vanta and uh which I you know started my journey of study went through um a lot of um vantic scriptures and um understood that healing is but a branch of this whole ocean and this whole ground of wisdom. The Vic scriptures and the vantic scriptures are amazing. They are they are like oceans.

[00:15:17]Every upanishad is like an like ocean.

[00:15:19]The Bhagat Gita is like ocean you know.

[00:15:22]So that captivated me for a good long time even today. And uh I also realized that because when I was in healing and um I used to teach healing as well. It also you know decades later it also may opened up a deeper understanding in me that Gana yoga you know in itself is deep healing.

[00:15:46]It made me understand that ghana yoga is deep healing because when your intellect gets divided and when your intellect understands the truth and when your intellect understands the knowh how of how situations are perceived and how situations are born and how they they turn how they're understood in each of our minds then suffering gets over. Nana yoga has the power to to a dilate and dissolve suffering completely.

[00:16:20]Physical suffering uh and material suffering you know one then learns to deal with it.

[00:16:28]Suffering that comes from the mind suffering that comes from the intellectual misunderstanding perceptive misunderstanding. This suffering can completely be eradicated with nana yoga completely you know and other kinds of sufferings that are more worldly in nature. These sufferings can be dealt with because the s of ghana yoga especially vantic wisdom um it opens up the the entire sequence of um titika shreddha samadhan. Thika means forbearance. Shreddha means deep devotion to the isness of life. One may believe in a particular devata or not.

[00:17:12]One still becomes loaded with bacti you know because true Gana will give birth to bi and uh bacti done with lot of love automatically opens up Gana.

[00:17:28]It's like that you know. So um to me vantic wisdom is like a holistic package of healing, wellness, self-realization and moka.

[00:17:41]>> I want to talk a lot about uh suffering but before that um you had mentioned that you had be when you started your journey you were reading a lot of vantic scriptures. So if there was someone who's just starting to study vanta or maybe in beginning or middle of their path what would you recommend uh the most prominent scriptures to read because there are so many translations uh so many opishadas and there's introductory text so how as a teacher how would you guide them to u everyone has to um look into his inside for instance the commentary that would appeal to him may not be the best commentary but that's best for him. You know something that opens a deep understanding inside and allows that whole circuit you know of reading processing in the mind and then going to the intellect and the in intellect understanding this circuit is very exquisite for you for someone someone you know so when he obviously if he doesn't have a physical teacher then he needs to explore the different commentaries say for instance for Bhagat Gita there are so many of them online and they can be taken online. You could read and see which of the language which of the way of presenting or translating is touching your heart you know and then you could have a you could you you could have a ascended master as your guru that's a very good idea and my suggestion to everyone those who don't have a physical guru can declare x y z person you have we have so many masters there are so many of them you could Take one of the pictures of the of the great master that you idealize or you really love you know and keep his picture. Ask him to be your guru and you can begin your study and you will be guided by his light for sure you know. So reading the commentaries bhashas of um not xyz people but of scholars >> those those who are authority on the text. Read the read the commentaries.

[00:19:55]Give yourself time to to do manenan on it. Manan means to allow that to seep in deep into yourself.

[00:20:03]>> Contemplate.

[00:20:04]>> Contemplate. Don't hurry up with the commentaries like you're reading a Mills and Boon novel. You know >> the commentaries have to be focused on churned on. You know you have to masticate that wisdom. Bring it up again and again. Chew it. You know so that kind go very slow. give yourself time you know that I'm going to study this this this in six months you know and then slowly go and now we do have a lot of teachers well-qualified teachers who can guide you and whom with whom you can go feel the comfort always when you approach a teacher feel your comfort level uh all teachers are very good you know but each teacher is made for a different kind of student some are loving some are strict you Some are rude, some are very polite.

[00:20:56]>> So what goes with you? You need to follow your heart. It's a path. You know the problem with lot of youngsters is that they want everything quickly. It's a instant coffee era, you know. And that shouldn't be there. You go very slow, go with love, go with lot of patience. And vanti wisdom for sure is the ultimate in in knowledge. Yes. You uh mentioned suffering a little bit earlier and I think this is where most people want to understand because on a day-to-day basis we go through so many types of sufferings. Physical is one of them where maybe you can come to understanding if you're diagnosed with a disease and that's physical pain. um more than physical what is so much more common is the mental suffering that we go through uh which is in the mind and you were talking about how why it's so important for the intellect to be divonized and to be able to contemplate on this truth. So can you first break us down on how uh vidant can actually eradicate in a sense that suffering that happens whether that's through feeling angry feeling um envy or uh wanting something and not being able to get it things like that. Yes. Uh one of the trump cards of uh vantic teaching is the understanding of the yogic psychology you know the the whole structure of the human antakarna. Antakana is your inner equipment where we have the man buddhi, chitta and ahankar where the inner equipment is uh explained with great detail of how a whole gamut of mind is divided into these four categories. It's actually one mind that is divided into manuddha.

[00:22:39]You know there are four departments of the mind that are interconnected and they support each other. For example, the mind and the chitta support each other whereas the ego and the intellect support each other you know. So if you understand the the intricacies of the antakata then you are sorted out in your own mind about your own functioning of how things are and you also understand how things are functioning in the other person's mind. So the study of vdanta will segregate you know things in your mind and the suffering itself is you know it it's cut into small small pieces to understand from where is this coming from where is this coming is this coming from my ego is this coming from my subconscious mind is this coming from my childhood abuse or is this coming from my past life memories or is this coming from uh the child ego in me or the husband ego in me or the woman ego in me or is this coming from a challenge physical disability you know so every aspect of the ego is categorically understood by the person who studies um danta nicely okay once this is understood then you can deal with it you can deal with it how does one deal with it witnessing consciousness is born the moment your divi your intellect gets divonized that means the moment your intellect receives the light you know receives the divine light and Gana yoga opens you to the divine light and when I use the word nana yoga it does not only mean reading books but it also means regularly meditating meditation is a support system for ghana yoga bi yoga karma yoga all the three parts without meditation all the three parts are incomplete So if someone is aana yogi and is reading scriptures regularly, reading bhashas regularly, he's understanding everything but he is not able to put that in his daily life but he's not able to go deeper in his levels of understanding then he should know that what is missing is meditation.

[00:24:57]You know a lot of breath work and meditation makes ghana yoga convert into practical wisdom. So do they work hand in hand or bas that meditation makes it something that comes natural?

[00:25:09]>> Yes. It is it is like you're giving digestive juices to all that you have read for it to to churn inside and assimilate and go right into your wisdom case.

[00:25:22]Right? So um with meditation there is a witnessing consciousness bond. That means there will be a deep level of awareness bond. That means there will be a sakshi bha that is born. And this sakshi bha now becomes like a big spiritual me inside me which will watch the other me going through all the vagaries of life. So if I am suffering due to something, this me knows how to take care of her, you know. So suffering does not get over just like poof. No, it it is a systematic death of a unreal experience in the light of reality.

[00:26:06]It's a very beautiful thing to understand. The unreality is stock reality for someone who is suffering. If I believe in something that's happening to me from outside and I'm my body is actually suffering, it's reality for me.

[00:26:20]Right?

[00:26:21]>> But the moment there is a witnessing consciousness and there is the wisdom of the Gana yoga, I separate a part of me which is not involved in the suffering now. And this me which is separated, the spiritual me is able to take care of the other part of me which is suffering just like a mother would take care of a child. Okay, this is happening to you.

[00:26:44]But you don't worry, you sit down here now. I'll explain this to you. You know there's a you're you're making yourself available for your self- counseling.

[00:26:53]>> Get it? It's a very beautiful thing to understand and experience. So Gana yoga supported with meditation, bacti yoga supported with meditation and karma yoga supported with meditation for sure is a holistic therapy. M >> so just to uh again go a little bit deeper in this technique because it is >> yes >> definitely um even having a sakshi still there is a sense of in reality there is one only but in this technique for lack of a better word basically you can observe your higher self can observe those emotions arising so they come and they go >> so whatever it's happening in the mind you know that it's happening to this uh body, mind, this person.

[00:27:39]>> Yes.

[00:27:40]>> And you're able to observe it and then uh a sense of distance comes or you can still act whatever has to be done but that suffering that second arrow as Buddha would say it it does not basically hit. Is that is that correct?

[00:27:53]>> Yes. The as far as the mental suffering is concerned this is this really works the way you said it. And then there is physical suffering. For instance, someone may be having body pains and disease or um a financial issue >> or something in a relationship you know within the family structure even that is suffering. So with the same formula of the mei watching the me the awareness taking care of uh the other suffering part of me I would argue you know the spiritual me would argue that this is happening to your body it's not happening to you right >> the pain is happening to your body the pain is not happening to you you're not the body you know when the vantic truth seeps deep into every cell of your body you understand the eternity of life you know you are you understand that disease and uh uh death are uh an illusion atma.

[00:28:53]You know that means the shashwat part of atma the eternity of the atma seeps deep into yourself and you know you're never going to die. You know you're always been here. You know you're always going to be here. So the detachment from the body suffering also happens automatically. Similarly, the ups and downs of life with money, with all of this, nothing is uh permanent.

[00:29:18]Everything is transient and my soul has chosen this story. My soul has chosen this script and I will wait. There is this sakshi which will wait patiently.

[00:29:29]There's lot of shreddha and samadhan >> in every aspect of your dealing in the world. And that is the biggest earning you know that vanta showers you with.

[00:29:43]>> A lot of questions. First um there's a word I would like to bring up here and maybe you can talk about that is like when you're talking about how when there's a financial problem or there's a problem in the family things like that.

[00:29:55]So to be able to also know in a sense that that is also it's coming and going it's not permanent it's an event right.

[00:30:02]So that viv or that discrimination how can one work on on that to be able to see that clearly all the time that what is happening right now this event it's this two shall pass and what I'm thinking is so real is so permanent it's actually so how to yeah it it is a everyday exercise when when you meditate every day then you need to have a lot of self-t talk we do it when we do our upasana upasana is a padi which is there in our Vic tradition where you sit with yourself you know uh up asa is like taking the second seat and on the first seat there is god there is brahman there is you your higher self anything or your guru >> okay he's on the first step you're sitting on the second step so you're having a t with him every day you know every day you are revising the lessons of your vantic wisdom and every day you're teaching your other self which is suffering the truth. You're teaching the truth every day. It's like reaffirming every day and upasna is recommended morning and evening both morning to begin the day so that you start your day with lot of positive affirmative stance.

[00:31:17]Take a positive affirmative u you know uh start for the day with prayers with deep breathing pranayam with um uh invocations of the deity that you believe in with invocations of the surya deva which is so tangible a god you know invocations of the sky of of the elements whatever if you're a non-believer of gods and goddesses does not matter you believe in nature which is tangible it's tangible god You know it's it can be felt. The power in the nature is unquestionable. You can't question it. It's it's it's evident.

[00:31:54]Everything is evident. Which power is switching on and switching off the day and night the seasons and the you come April and you have new sprouts on the tree. You know come fall and all the leaves are falling. You there's no question to this power which is working relentlessly through years and years and years. So you acknowledge that there is a power and this power I call it God.

[00:32:17]Even if you don't believe in a dia to communicate with this unseen formless god is also upasna you know upasna is done nironupasa and sagunupa. Nirunupasa is for people who don't believe in idols and gods and goddesses. They can connect to nature. They can connect to the light. They can connect to the to the firm belief that there is a power controlling this universe. Obviously otherwise everything would have just gone haywire. You know you you need to argue out with yourself. Be your own lawyer and argue with yourself. Yes boss there is something working here. I am not working. You know as human beings and as animals we are not taking care of the world. The world is taking care of us.

[00:33:01]>> The universe is taking care of us. So even for nirvanupasa even though there is no deity involved there is a conversation a conversation that relates to the truth and that sorts out things you know in this opasana suffering can be scattered you sc you you you know segregate parts of the suffering to understand what the money problem comes from what this is coming from what this is coming from and then surrender it to nature surrender it to the god which is nun for you for the person there There is light that can be visualized. Even in ironupa there is light that people visualize you know they they visualize the the glory of the praash you know so that needs to be surrendered. Suffering can be surrendered even in nunupa and sagunupa is even easier. There is a deity sitting there whether it is lalita or it is mahaganapati for us you know we surrender everything at his feet. So morning times you begin with lot of affirmative positive stance you know take up a ready steady go kind of a stance and then through the day work full throttled work hard work honestly work hard to the best of your capacity and again a evening upasana evening upasana is letting go is forgiveness gratitude that you could work through the day that you could do this this this and chop this suffering into pieces to understand that I've dealt with this today. This I couldn't deal with you know and talk it out and surrender it to your deity to the deity. The power of the deities the power of the nirvatma is fathomless is far more than you as an individual. As an individual we are small like an ant >> you know a ant has a mountain to move he can't move but if he invokes that power you know the power can move the mountain it's like that so when you understand that I am limited the eye is limited but the real me inside is unlimited if I learn to align the real me with the cosmic power then everything is possible and my suffering can be taken care of so this connection with the with the with the truth is important otherwise suffering can can never be eradicated never suffering will take form different forms and keep attacking the human mind and the human body you know it's like that if you learn to deal with the witnessing consciousness can sort it out for sure physical suffering body suffering it needs to be told again and again that the body is suffering not yes the body is suffering not me. Similarly, uh financial suffering, professional suffering, all of this needs to be sorted out with the right understanding of the karma theory with the right understanding of how we are carrying stories with us with the right understanding of how things are happening and not done you know people get either into a culprit mode or you know it's like self victimizing mode or they get into aggression blaming others you know so in the suffering either you're blaming someone or you're blaming self whereas it's an event and a happening and no one is responsible. We have a very beautiful statement is and when we say ishwar it does not mean when we say ishwar it means causal in vanta the word ishwar means collective causal in vanta we have these words vishwaras ragya can you please explain the yes the the vishwar is my physical gross self-consciousness manifesting as me the gross Grass individual grass. The root is consciousness manifesting as my mind.

[00:36:54]And uh pragya is consciousness me manifesting as my causal. That means the glow the intelligence and the glow which is there uh in my causal body. The same thing in the collective form you know is consciousness is manifesting as a to sum total of the grass body. We call it vishwar.

[00:37:16]It's called vishwarup. And the consciousness manifesting as a sum total of the mind stuff >> in the entire difference it's called.

[00:37:27]>> Yes. And consciousness manifesting as a sum total of collective causal is called ishwar in vanta. Therefore the word ishwward means collective causal. Collective causal means collective destiny.

[00:37:41]Collective destiny. What does it do? It does all the events that are happening.

[00:37:45]There is a war happening now.

[00:37:47]Then there is floods happening. There are there's fire happening somewhere.

[00:37:51]>> Plane crash where there was >> a plane crash. All of the collective events not one person is responsible for that. Collective causal is responsible.

[00:37:59]That's why it is called ishwar. So in this statement it means the causal is responsible. So if I have a sad story and if there is suffering happening due to XY Z factors in my life, I have to tell myself every day that I'm doing the best that I can do but the suffering will end when Ishwar wants it.

[00:38:23]>> Okay. Um the first question is these three terms that you mentioned can this be correlated to uh the three states of deep sleep, dreaming and waking state.

[00:38:32]Can you talk a little bit about how we can correlate that?

[00:38:35]>> Yes. the these stages the consciousness is functioning. Consciousness is all there is >> in and through all of these stages.

[00:38:41]>> Yes, it is it is it is all that is that is the only s and uh everything else is elucary and everything else is a creation of consciousness at different stages. So in the waking state these three stages of uh vishwarup, tasup and pragya these are three stages also.

[00:38:59]Vishwarup means the grass body and it also means waking state. In the waking state, the grass is evident, >> manifest, >> manifests. The the body is there in the deep sleep state also, but it is not functional.

[00:39:13]>> You're still there in the bed when you're in deep sleep. It's not disappearing, but you're not experiencing it. Right? So, uh consciousness is manifesting and experiencing the body. That is vishwarup.

[00:39:29]Consciousness is manifesting and experiencing the mind. That is the tjasp and in the deep sleep state it is experiencing the pryar which is the glow of the causal body the light in the causal body at the at three levels you understand your body the physical body right second the subtle body which is the mind I mean to easier understanding we say inside the physical is the subtle inside the subtle is the causal it's easier way to understand but actually it is everywhere right so In the deepest level, the soul is in the deepest level.

[00:40:06]The causal body is above it. Subtle body is above it. And the causal body is the most outside.

[00:40:13]If you in in this system, you can understand it well. Otherwise, every cell of your body has all these three bodies.

[00:40:20]>> Every cell of our body has all the three bodies. That means there is a vishwar in the outside. The cell is visible under a microscope, right? It has a gross. Yes, >> there is a mind in the cell. Subtle body is there in the cell. That is the tas.

[00:40:37]And then there is a glow. There's energy glow. There's a causal body in every cell. There are karma cells in every cell. All right. This glow is appearing like a light. This is pragyar consciousness coming in the pragyar and inside it is Brahman consciousness which is pure untainted.

[00:40:59]All right. So this at a macro level at a bigger level is called vishwar virat rupa and ishwar and when you mean pure you don't mean good or bad sense no I don't mean good and bad consciousness is um in each one of us consciousness is also there in two forms there isara and aara it's in two forms there's Pure consciousness which just is in every cell and then this consciousness gets tainted gets conditioned with our karma body karma seeds it's like a layer added to pure energy this is white light here if I put a red cellophane paper everything is red here you know the energy is same it's consciousness but it's coming through a filter of kmas and so it gets conditioned And it gets bad. Buddha means tied up to the script. Yes, it gets tied up to the script.

[00:42:07]>> But there is pure consciousness also.

[00:42:09]And this pure consciousness unfortunately does nothing. It it will not do anything. It will not interfere.

[00:42:15]For example, when we talk about, you know, in ordinary life, we talk about some very horrible things happening like a rape happening or a murder happening >> or children shot down somewhere.

[00:42:28]terrorists are shooting down children somewhere. I mean one would wonder and people have asked where is God.

[00:42:35]One would wonder if there is really God that is an ocean of compassion. Why are these things happening? So this consciousness the isness of life does not take action.

[00:42:48]It goes through the filter of kmas and this consciousness which is conditioned consciousness will take action good or bad depending on the kmas. So in the collective consciousness in the collective conditioned consciousness when terrorism is happening these karma seeds are planted by all of us with our thoughts violent thoughts and everything.

[00:43:12]So consciousness is the power that is doing even the wrong things on earth because it is conditioned wrongly.

[00:43:22]You get my point?

[00:43:23]>> Yes.

[00:43:23]>> Yes.

[00:43:24]>> Because uh because you talked about the problem of evil a lot of um when this question comes about in a lot of dualistic traditions or people who believe in a god form even in Christianity for example. So that's also a real issue because the first instinct is that if there is a god even if someone believes in Jesus why would they make these bad things happen like you mentioned these few things.

[00:43:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are we have created a karma sheet which is bad. The consciousness works through this karma sheet and creates bad things.

[00:43:55]Consciousness is like a power. It's like fire. Let's say fire can be used for cooking. Fire can be used to burn a house down.

[00:44:04]>> Fire is not responsible. The act of utilizing the fire wrongly is responsible. Correct.

[00:44:11]>> Yes. The confusion that comes here is that because pure consciousness itself is not the doer, right? It is still in itself.

[00:44:20]>> And almost what you've been sharing almost it makes it feel that the individual person um the body mind the name and form in this life doesn't have much free will either because it is bonded by karma. Yes. Consciousness is not bonded by karma but we as it name and former are. So then the question comes that who is responsible or who is the doer of neither we are and neither consciousnesses consciousness pure consciousness is not the doer but conscious pure consciousness which is bound on in a karma script becomes the doer that's why we say ishwaram >> that is the doer. So how does one do we have a free will to change this bondage?

[00:45:04]says when we bring in more light when we bring in more light let's talk of an individual and not of the collective field for a moment >> when we bring in more light that means conscious pure consciousness and um with prayers with meditation we are bringing in pure light pure consciousness then the conditioned consciousness gets sublimed it's like the red cellophane paper I spoke about. If I put in a lot of heat there, if I put in increase this white light, the pure white light, if I increase the intensity of this red of this white light, the red solopher, >> faded, >> faded with the with the heat and with the exposure of the pure consciousness, pure light. In the same way the conditioned consciousness inside which is bondage in in bondage of the script whether it is good or bad script you know this gets faded when there is extraordinary light pure consciousness brought in. So free will that is pushart should be exercised for spiritual activities that will bring in more light and will release you of the bondage of anything that is bad inside. And the same thing can be said to the collective consciousness that when there is pure light invoked by each individual person invoke everybody invokes everybody it's like it's it's you know metaphorical when people go with candles in their hands >> when there are so many people going with candles in their hand they themselves don't understand the meaning of what they're doing but I can understand as a person close to the vantic truth I understand that it is metaphorical. It is symbolic that we are bringing in more light >> collectively.

[00:46:59]>> Collectively we are bringing in by choice peace. We are bringing in more light and more purity into our every action. So that the impurity that we have collected over centuries is getting faded.

[00:47:15]So if if I was to ask you honestly from if you were to give an opinion, would you think that if we have to try to solve some of the sufferings just in this relative world from an individual level, should we then utilize um what you said like collective healing rituals, prayers to be able to solve that?

[00:47:35]>> Yes. Am I that should be encouraged?

[00:47:37]That should be encouraged. At least we should try.

[00:47:39]>> Mhm.

[00:47:40]>> Yes.

[00:47:40]>> Okay. And but in addition to that also understand that from a bigger picture we are not affected these things.

[00:47:47]>> Yes.

[00:47:47]>> Okay. You uh we talked a little bit about we didn't go deeper into the fact that we don't die. So for a lot of people that concept is still very hard to digest because we're so conditioned to be fearful of death. It's one of the biggest fears of of human beings.

[00:48:04]>> So um first can you explain uh a little briefly? I know you mentioned this before why when you say we don't die why is that true and then also if u enlightenment is not achieved in this life even if we have been trying our best accumulating knowledge we've reached that far if moka is not achieved then we come back um you can talk about reincarnation as well yeah so first thing about we don't die this conviction can come only when you read the truth again again and again and again and which means the eternity of the soul and soul as energy of God and soul as God itself you know which is indestructible indestroyable and you can't cut it you can't divide it and you can't it's like space here >> I may I may go on moving my sword you know a million times but I can't cut the space into many pieces consciousness is just there and you can't cut it into many pieces And you can't kill it and you can't make it disappear, right? It's like that. So, eternity of the soul needs to be studied in your self inquiry sessions every day so that it is inscripted beautifully and boldly in your brain because the brain is the belief system.

[00:49:26]I mean it's this is what creates your belief system. Whatever you believe in is written in your brain. So you believe in it.

[00:49:33]>> It's a receiver.

[00:49:34]>> Yes. Yes. is a receiver and that's how you think. Huh? So it needs to be written and inscribed in your brain.

[00:49:42]Then it comes to the level of conviction supported with all the practices supported with all the noble writings of the people you know. Then it gets into a conviction level. When it goes into your conviction level then you will live it.

[00:49:57]You will live the truth of death. Yeshua that means how whatever you believe in that becomes your faith and your belief and future.

[00:50:12]>> Yeah. It's like that. So the eternity of life of the soul has to be taught thoroughly through the to the mind and to the brain and then it becomes a reality automatically.

[00:50:25]then you know that anything is happening to this body will shed the body like old cloth like how noble people and saints have done in the past you know and so um the whole science of consciousness of how you know the the the body is aging and the body then dies and the soul you know reincarnates and goes into another it's like small children playing a game we play house house games you know today I'm the mother know tomorrow it's your turn to be the father and then there after tomorrow you know I'm going to be the child today and you be the mother you be the father we keep changing roles every day as we play the game it's just like that every lifetime you're changing roles and experiencing different roles in this world you know and but you are a constant >> you're a constant you're just changing your uniform and your makeup but you're a constant similarly when you read the eternity principle of consciousness Then you understand that yes this is this is just not possible to die doesn't die I so this I I'm calling myself ma today may I may call something else in some other lifetime it doesn't matter but she's going to be there the soul in me is going to be there always >> so I'm always going to be here yeah okay let's uh break it down into two parts so we can go deeper into each one first is if one does achieve that state of enlightenment or liberation where they don't have to keep on taking births one by one and that is one of I guess one of the main goals right what happens then do we >> because that concept of merging into that infinite consciousness Brahman um it comes across as very cold and dry to a lot of people there was a yeah there was a Disney movie um >> called soul >> it's animated one that came out a few years ago and >> over there basically it's um it's based on what we're talking about with Ananta and they show that that person dies um and then he want he's very scared to go into something called the great beyond which we can refer to as Brahman and he wants to come back and experience things that he didn't feel finished yet his career and things like that so how do we go go there can you explain that what happens when we go into >> yes there are two things that you asked one about the word enlightenment and the other about moka >> yes >> enlightenment is a fantastic And that is something everybody should aspire and um it's achievable goal. It's not something which is far away. We don't know what is moka. You know moka is different. Enlightenment is different. Enlightenment means your light has penetrated into your brain and your brain can now understand everything. Everything you can look through every atom and you can look through consciousness and understandment. You can trace things to the level of consciousness in every iota of this universe. Enlightenment means you have entered into the light of wisdom and knowledge of the truth. All right. So that is achievable and that with nana yoga bi yoga people can get enlightened and we have testimonies of that. We have all saints and seers that have been enlightened.

[00:53:44]Now moka is a hypothesis. You know moksha we we read it in scriptures undoubtedly that the soul is now unified in in union with consciousness and never to come back never to be born.

[00:53:58]>> One with God.

[00:53:59]>> Yeah. One with God and never to be born.

[00:54:01]Uh this is something that I thoroughly understand. You know I understand as the eye has got dissolved. You know the eye personality has got dissolved in God.

[00:54:13]While you're living if your eye gets dissolved in God and you understand deeply and this is something an individual will have to evaluate and nobody else can evaluate for him. He himself has to eval evaluate. So if I feel that my eye has got dissolved completely in god and it's nonfunctional and only god is functioning through me then it is a kind of a living mti jven mti you know and such a person they say the scriptures say such a person will then go through kamti and will never be born again but my question is whether you will be born again or not born again how does it matter to you for that person it shouldn't matter if >> it shouldn't matter I mean you and me discussing about mokra at this moment after you die or after I die whether I'm born again or not born again how does it make a difference to me because I will not be there I will be someone else like a different name and >> it's like a different series of experiences right >> another series of experiences another series of life so me as ma Huh? I I don't care whether I get moka or not. My soul it's its journey and it will decide to be XY Z if it wants to experience life again and if it doesn't want to experience life again it will get unified and go one into universal consciousness. I as an experienc experiencer will not be there. So speaking about moka for seekers I think is not required. Janmti yes they should aim because why you're alive if you are able to function without the eye it's minimized and it is dissolved in God and you're able to experience the functioning of God through you and you have crossed over or grown over all the vasanasis of your body if there are desires that don't dominate you at And if you have achieved that state of jan mti to me this is moka enlightened while basically free while you're alive to experience the 100% liberation from the mind and you know um viasas that is mti to me after what happens to the soul that's soul's business not mine >> you're right to say that if one truly has understood that knowledge and become one then it doesn't really matter.

[00:56:54]>> Even in Baki they say that you know it's okay if whoever you just brings me back then.

[00:56:59]>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Right.

[00:57:01]>> But does it um what we've accumulated in in this life like if we have studied with worked on ourselves until a dying moment uh and we let's say hypothetically we do have to reincarnate. So does that come with us like where we've stopped? Yeah. So 100% this is science and this is 100% that whatever wisdom you have gathered in this life the the light that has penetrated into you will remain and you're born with that glow with that wisdom in the next life like higher consciousness in the mind.

[00:57:34]>> Yes. Yes. 100%. This is the only thing that you carry with you.

[00:57:37]>> Okay. After death there is nothing else.

[00:57:40]You had property in your previous life.

[00:57:41]Where are the papers and documents for that property? You had children. You had attachment. Where are they? You don't have anything. You don't remember anything. But what you learned in your previous life makes you such a wise girl at such a young age, right? So it's accumulated. No, sir.

[00:57:59]>> A lot of non-dualists refer to this life as almost like a dream. Would you agree with that statement?

[00:58:06]>> It it's it's beautiful to call it a dream. It makes it lighter.

[00:58:11][laughter] It makes it experience. We experience life very light and um yes um I would love to call it a dream but it's more like dream of consciousness. It's not me you know for me it's a reality I experiences life as a reality it's a dream when I come to deeper uh you know knowing my deeper self when I sit in the seat of consciousness I feel this is a dream you know and in this dream then there are many possibilities yesterday's conference I was giving the example of the butterfly and the human being it's a very common Zen um you know um Zen saying he a man gets gets up in the morning, a Zen master gets up in the morning and uh remembers he he saw that he was a butterfly. He was a butterfly in in his dream. But now when he wakes up, he is in a big problem. He says, "I don't understand whether I am a butterfly dreaming of being a human or am I a human that dreamt of being a butterfly." You know, so yes, so this is a very beautiful example of how real our life is, whether it is an illusion or not. You're experiencing it and we live in 100% integrity, an acceptance of this life as a reality. But you go into the corridors of your silence, go more and more inward, then you understand that this is a dream and it's an illusion and it's God's doing. Well, the moment you that's why to me you know having a god uh even if it is created by your brain it does not matter it helps it helps you to silence your mind otherwise you feel very alone >> in this world to deal with the with the arguments of your mind >> yeah you don't feel like you have anyone who can >> you don't feel to to yes you can't communicate with anyone so when I go into the inner corridors of my silence understand even if this life is an illusion And if it's a dream, it's a dream of my God and I'm okay with it.

[01:00:16]>> Yes. Rupert Spy uses that term who was on our show um that he he likes to say that we are all in God's dream.

[01:00:22]>> Yes. Yes. Yes. It gives you comfort.

[01:00:25]>> It does not scare you.

[01:00:26]>> Mhm.

[01:00:27]>> It gives you comfort.

[01:00:28]>> Um suffering and you know we try to eradicate suffering obviously because it feels real for for us. But do you think initially um suffering is can be a catalyst for people to wake up to a lot of the existential questions?

[01:00:45]>> Yes, many times. Yes, many times. Often in fact um and it's soul chosen. It's soul chosen because um the ego gets inflated with success, comfort.

[01:00:58]uh you see a lot of times people who are on um you know trip upwards worldly worldly trip upwards where there's success and where there is lot of good flavors of life you know the ego gets bloated and the ego is in certitude that I've done everything you know this is mine it's self earned it's hard work and and all of that suffering helps you to break this ego and suffering helps you to understand because you start with questioning Why did this happen to me?

[01:01:30]Why did this happen to me? How come this happened? You know, I didn't do this. I didn't do this. Why did this happen? So, this questioning itself takes one inward inward towards the reality and absolute where um you know where you learn that and I have to take it alike. Profit and loss I have to take it alike. You reach to that wisdom. So suffering comes as a catalyst most of the time you know most of the time unless someone is gone through a lot of suffering for several lifetimes then he may be born and lied on someone >> having learned all the lessons and he knows the truth and he doesn't anymore need any catalyst >> that they're just there to serve.

[01:02:14]>> Yes. It's a rare it's a rare birth.

[01:02:17]That's a rare birth.

[01:02:20]>> When we uh when you talked about suffering it's a catalyst and people wake up. So why is it that is this part of the soul's journey that we choose like people talk about soul contract where we've essentially chosen that these are the experiences we're going to have to be able to then wake up to our true nature but there are people who I mean I'm sure who die ignorant right who don't even come to spirituality or that so is that also just part of the process that then they will have to come back and go through experiences to wake up >> yeah yeah yeah so evolution is that's what evolution is about.

[01:02:54]>> Evolution is about uh living life uh in the physical reality you know taking this to be the only world or taking this to be the only dimension of functioning you know then going more subtler. So as you evolve life after life if we take human lives to be 108 let's say 100 lives are lives of ignorance and the eight upper lives are lives of awakening and questioning.

[01:03:28]So in each of these eight lives the story is very intense.

[01:03:32]Story is very intense. Not that these 100 lives do not have intense stories.

[01:03:36]The intense stories are here as well.

[01:03:38]But the but the intensity is not questioned. You're either in the blame game or you're you're you know you become a victim, you become an infltor.

[01:03:46]You become a victim, you become an infltor for many lifetimes, you know. So people suffer, they suffer, they hold someone responsible, their soul uh like you said, use the word contract. You create contracts, you know. Then you come in another lifetime to inflict the same suffering to the other, etc. This goes on for several lifetimes until you arrive at a state where you cut cords with all that is happening. You don't want to trace anymore. Where does this begin? You just want to let go of it with forgiveness, gratitude. You cut cords and then you know the soul contracts get over and then um the questioning starts and then there is reformation and and restructuring of your faith and belief system.

[01:04:35]>> Mhm.

[01:04:36]>> This is this is the true awakening. This is the true awakening. This uh this realm earth it's not the only realm.

[01:04:43]There are different locas or dimensions.

[01:04:46]Is that correct as per scripture?

[01:04:48]>> Yeah. You see, everything is experienced through the mind. Amira, we experience everything through the mind. The mind can stretch to many dimensions beyond many realms. The mind can experience life beyond. The man can mind can experience parallel realities etc. So it is true and yet not true. It is true and yet not true because at the absolute level there is nothing.

[01:05:16]There's nothing else in this universe other than me. There's Krishna which means consciousness you know. So consciousness is only there and there are so many calidoscopic pictures and realms and dimensions and we experience all of those as reality through the mind.

[01:05:34]So for a devotey someone who is on the path of bacti when their goal becomes uh going to goloka or vikunta >> after the birth of a death of this body.

[01:05:44]Yeah.

[01:05:44]>> Um that's also not that's a permanent according to them and in that sense they don't go there with a physical body. So that's also like a astral spiritual realm. Is that correct?

[01:05:55]>> Yes. Um it's a it's a goal which is very close to the absolute truth.

[01:06:01]>> So it is encouraged.

[01:06:04]For example, uh a beta let's say dissolves into Krishna consciousness and stays into Krishna consciousness.

[01:06:14]Um it's a good thing because it is like we say is the absolute truth and um all the forms are coexisting around this consciousness you know. So if someone dissolves in Krishna or someone dissolves in the Dvi or someone dissolves in Ganesha is almost like dissolving in the absolute because they get kamti and they dissolve in the light. So bti yoga therefore is a very safe path. M >> because you're one with your ego basically.

[01:06:45]>> Yes. And there is constant handholding of the dity.

[01:06:49]>> So it's much more loving compassion.

[01:06:52]Yes. It's like you're looked after.

[01:06:54]There's a personal question that I have which I've also struggled with um many times is that is the integration of the path of Jana and bakti can it be done because a lot of times it seems as if if I'm becoming so big that I'm untouched and at the same time simultaneously I'm surrendering into a god it's almost contradicting to one another. No, that's that's very beautiful uh question I think uh Amira because um I hear that people are wanting to either choose the Ghana yoga path or the bakti yoga path or the karma yoga path whereas I personally believe that it needs to be integrated. You know, every every person needs to um study study the Gana Yoga way to inquire into the truth and inquire into the formless uh God and understand it as the foundation of this whole creation. Simultaneously making an icon for this formless god in the form of the Dvi or Devata that they uh resonate with you know that they can connect with. This bacti yoga helps them to surrender to teaches surrender otherwise you don't know how to surrender to whom >> nana yoga surrender is very difficult because you don't know whom to surrender to whom to visualize as someone holding me you know so bakti yoga gives you that support and uh along with nana yoga gets converted into bacti and bakti gets converted into ghana it goes hand in hand it's very very complementing each other and karma yoga because Detachment is the is the hallmark of kba yoga.

[01:08:30]Detachment to every action you know. So you you you work full throttled um you know there is action which is loaded with with all the intensity intention etc. But detach to the results of the action you know. So karma yoga practicing karma yoga in your day-to-day activities. Bakti yoga to teach surrender and ego erosion and ghana yoga to sort out mentally all the happenings around you. A perfect combination of these three will make a ideal saddak.

[01:09:03]>> Okay. So it's recommended actually.

[01:09:05]>> Yes, definitely recommended. H this is a question that I'm sure you've been asked before but difference between spiritual journey for a householder versus a monk because someone who renounces everything and takes the journey of monkhood which is of course also based on karma and that is in the karma but um it is often a but like for them it is a like a path that they're taking they have everything set they need to follow the certain uh discipline and the basia for that but for a householder it's um it is difficult in the sense that if there's so much into the worldly things and family and so how how is it possible and yes bhagodita was taught to a householder technically >> yes but the path of moderation >> okay >> the path of moderation is recommended where uh the preference is always on fulfilling your dharma you know and evolution your soul's evolution atmma kasha and the constant efforts push Shart towards your spiritual evolution takes the second step. So first step is fulfillment of dharma for the householder. And when you say fulfillment of dharma, it again means two-sided. Your swad dharma that means what you really love to do. That means living your life in in integrity, honesty, exuberance and happiness.

[01:10:28]That's your swadharma. You know, so if you engaged in work that is not giving you happiness, are you engaged in work where you feel like you're slogging like a slave? If you're engaged in work that puts you in bondage, then you're not looking at your sadharma. One has to honestly, you know, bring in that workforce that you can align with beautifully. M >> that is for dharma and dharma that you commit to dharma towards the family towards the society towards the children towards the spouse towards whatever you take as commitment. Okay.

[01:11:03]>> You know, so uh dharma for the householder is on the front seat and then spiritual development and attention towards your atma zutkash towards the evolution towards your own progression towards you becoming a finer person towards building up a better character towards understanding the redundancy of and futility of pursuing too many material goals. you know the contemplation, reflection and setting up your milestones for the journey of life as a householder. That's the kind of path of moderation one should follow.

[01:11:39]>> Mhm. M >> there is uh Bernardo Castro and he's written a book called materialism is baloney which I think it also talks about basically how we are chasing materialistic things but the desires there's no end to it right so as a householder like you use the word moderation that if we again unhappiness will be caused if we just have unending desires >> yes absolutely absolutely a day-to-day basis reflection will curtail you know the overspilling of desires.

[01:12:14]You learn to to um the a very beautiful example says that between the banks of dharma and moka the river of uh karma and ara should flow. That means between the banks of dharma and moka they're curtailed. They curtail the flow incessant flow of material desires and other desires.

[01:12:40]>> Let the river of life flow between these two banks.

[01:12:43]>> Then that that that's a perfect life for a householder and a worldly person.

[01:12:48]>> Middle path.

[01:12:49]>> Yes. Middle path.

[01:12:50]uh as a teacher I'm sure you've been asked this question before as well but for a person who has been on the path and they are doing their spiritual practices there comes a time of like you said an ego death where that small eye starts to minimize or like that identification starts to minimize. So then how do you deal with that negative side effects of that in the sense of extreme dispassion uh mind going into extreme tamas because suddenly after contemplation you've realized okay this is the truth and uh dispassion from material worldly things shocks you basically >> seeing the truth can can take a person into a depressive >> you know loneliness whereas the goal is aloneeness not loneliness so that's why the worldly path has to be very intelligently chosen. You know, it it has to be a colorful path and not a um black and white gray path. It has to be a colorful path where lovingly uh knowingly you are in the worldly pursuits with great level of awareness constantly, steadily practicing pratahar, slowly practicing pratahar. Complete withdrawal from the world can make a person depressed.

[01:14:05]Slowly practicing pratahar from not only engagements in the outside in sense of conversations and company and parties but also pratyahar from all the indulgences that you have within the house you know the food that you consume the things that you wear, the things that you use. slowly steadily dropping your comfort zones, you know, slowly steadily dropping your um desires and uh holdings, you know, of of all the likes that you have, the the brands that you love to wear and the clothes that you love to wear and the things that you like to buy all the time. Slowly, steadily, watchfully dropping them little by little, lovingly taking yourself into a state where you are alone yet you're happy. Where you don't have too many things yet you're happy and you have the option to indulge but you don't indulge.

[01:14:59]>> Taking yourself to that level of authenticity.

[01:15:02]So forced and suppressed spirituality can be dangerous. M >> it has to be a spiritual pursuit with great level of awareness >> natural >> natural organic yes >> uh sa is one of the most one of the most important things in when you're on the spiritual journey so for someone who cannot find uh friends or any people who are at that stage of awareness is it better to just not not have any and be in your own alone >> yes you you can you could now we are fortunate to have lot of online communities and there are so many mission offices and so many beautiful organizations that have set uh centers you know one can start regularly visiting there or go to temples or go to you know whatever kind of faith they are in uh and make new friends make new friends or have minimum interactions that are required and uh more being friendly with yourself when a person learns to fall in love with his own company he's got into the best sa you know it's like You love your company because you have your books with you.

[01:16:08]You have your uh things to read, things to do. There were so many things. The day 24 hours day is not enough to do all the activities that are there. And you really love to be with yourself in your own home. Then you really don't need anyone.

[01:16:22]>> Thank you so much. I'm covering so many topics. I know we went back and for a lot of things. Um but I wanted to ask everything that was in my mind. um one last sentence or two you would like to leave the audience with that um maybe we didn't cover or any any last words >> it was a lovely conversation Amira very beautiful conversation and I think something that all the youngsters and your audience really needs to think contemplate maybe whatever I said will trigger a thought process and um um I would really love especially the youngsters I really love. They're very honest. One thing, yeah, they're very honest and lesser in bondage than uh our generation or older people were there.

[01:17:08]The the the the society has given them a lot of freedom, you know, to to think who best they want to be, what best they want to be. So if the self inquiry is taking them into understanding their true self and they are able to talk out a very beautiful path for themselves, I think that's the best thing that can happen to them. So not getting lost in the colors of the world but finding your true colors and engrossing yourself in self-discovery is something that uh is a takeback from this podcast.

[01:17:42]>> Thank you so so much. Thank you.

[01:17:44]>> Thank you so much.