Tiger Mom Didn't Expect The Law To Apply To HER — Who's Telling the Truth? | bodycam analysis

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[00:00:07]I hear somebody in the garage. I know.

[00:00:09]Yeah, you can see stuff all over there.

[00:00:14]Hello. Hello. How's it going? Can you step outside with us for a second?

[00:00:18]undershirt on. That's okay. Can you just step outside with us? I Can I just go put an undershirt on, please?

[00:00:23]>> No, can we come in? We're going to come in with you if you're going to go.

[00:00:25]>> down. We don't mind. Believe me, we've seen people in way worse.

[00:00:28]>> Yeah.

[00:00:28]>> [laughter] >> Go ahead and sit down. on the camera.

[00:00:30]Hello. Rise. Yeah, well, your husband's out here. I can come inside and talk to you, okay?

[00:00:34]>> Can you just give me a second?

[00:00:36]>> I can't let you be alone. We got called to >> Why? Cuz we got called to an active domestic. So, this is why we're here.

[00:00:43]Come in, sir. Thank you. Can you just take me off camera then so I can go put the undershirt on?

[00:00:47]>> You So, what's going on today?

[00:00:52]Nothing is going on.

[00:00:53]>> Okay, so we see a bunch of stuff outside out front. So, where How did that all get out there?

[00:00:59]Like this phones, stuff thrown all over the driveway in the front yard. What's going on with that?

[00:01:06]It's music binders.

[00:01:08]Okay. Well, there was a phone in the driveway.

[00:01:10]>> That's my phone. Okay, so what What caused all that? My phone wasn't thrown anywhere. Well, why is it in the driveway then?

[00:01:16]>> Because I put it down there. Okay, well, what's up with all the other stuff in the driveway? I told my husband to take it and he wouldn't take it and he wouldn't leave. So, I threw it out because he's going to need it today.

[00:01:24]Okay. And that's all there is to >> Are you trying to kick him out? I asked him to leave.

[00:01:29]>> Okay. So, kind of just back back this up a little bit. What started all of this today?

[00:01:36]Because like I said, we got called to an active domestic. Okay. Someone said someone was throwing stuff all over the house and being really violent. So, that's why we're here, okay? So, kind of start me from the beginning about what happened and we'll go from there.

[00:01:47]>> About 5 minutes ago, I asked him to leave because he was running late to take my to swim again. Okay, so >> And I said, "You're going to need your stuff." And he wouldn't leave.

[00:01:54]>> live here? Yes.

[00:01:55]>> Okay.

[00:01:56]And he said he needs I told him that he needs to take my music with him. Okay.

[00:02:01]Cuz my is acting out again. And I said you need you need to leave now because you're going to be late because his swim class starts at exactly 3:30. Okay. And he's missed a lot of classes and he's been late a lot. Okay. He's had a lot of absences and I don't want him to miss again. Okay. And he wouldn't get his stuff in time. So I threw it out and I said go. Okay. I'm not going to be responsible for him missing another class. Okay. And you said this has been an ongoing issue.

[00:02:25]With hit just like have you like with you guys have things been just like tension been high or seems like something that him being late seems that's kind of He's late a lot.

[00:02:33]>> Seems like this is a bigger issue than him just being late today.

[00:02:37]Yes, he's late a lot.

[00:02:39]Kind of your frustration right now how he's always late.

[00:02:43]He doesn't take care of responsibilities, but I wouldn't say me throwing out is a domestic event. I threw out some music binders. Okay. So he said >> And I set my phone down. Okay. Before I was trying to get in the shower.

[00:02:54]>> Okay. Which is why I don't have an undershirt on. Did you Did anybody get violent with anyone?

[00:02:59]>> No one hit anyone. No one is hurt. Okay.

[00:03:02]I I just bring it down. Okay, we're here to help. Okay, I know you don't you'll probably want us here, but that's we're here. Okay, so we're just going to figure out what's going on.

[00:03:08]>> Okay. So um there was he did say that you potentially had been violent towards his this So we are is not hurt. Hudson is not anything.

[00:03:17]>> I'm going to have to talk to him.

[00:03:18]>> That's fine. You can go do that. Where is he at?

[00:03:20]>> He's very upset because I made him do his homework today and he didn't want to do his homework. What how old is he?

[00:03:25]He's a Okay. No one wants to do their homework so that makes sense. Okay. He doesn't want I got you.

[00:03:29]>> to cancel his composition today because he didn't have his homework done. He didn't have his assignments finished so he was very upset. He was rebelling. He didn't want to do his music and I said why don't you take your music out then?

[00:03:39]Okay.

[00:03:39]>> And you get to class on time. You can't be late again. Okay. So he's rebelling and acting out because I'm asking him to get his homework done.

[00:03:45]>> Okay. Where's he at right now? He's out there. Outside? Yeah. Where was it? I didn't see him when we walked up. Was he in the car or something?

[00:03:54]>> He might have gotten in the car. He's supposed to be at spin. Like he's late.

[00:03:57]>> Okay, I got you. That's what I'm explaining. Yes.

[00:03:59]>> Okay.

[00:04:00]Which which car would he be in? The red one. Okay, the red one. We'll go talk to him. Do you have your ID on you by chance or do you have access to it?

[00:04:08]You need my ID? I do.

[00:04:10]So, we are investigating a domestic incident. So, we are we by law have to take a report. So, we have to identify all the parties.

[00:04:17]>> You're taking a police report today? My husband is causing a police report because I put some music outside?

[00:04:22]>> Well, when there's accusations of violence.

[00:04:25]Well, it does like the name >> Do I need to call my attorney?

[00:04:27]>> Ma'am, we're not No one's under arrest right now. We're just doing an investigation to determine if there was a domestic incident that happened.

[00:04:34]>> There's no domestic incident that happened.

[00:04:35]>> am I supposed to know that? We just got here. I have to talk to you. I have to talk to him. And I have to talk to your to figure out exactly what happened.

[00:04:42]>> Your husband is right there.

[00:04:45]Then my husband is right there. Okay, like I said, we're going to talk to all the parties. Well, then can you go talk to him? We will. That's why I needed to get you identified and get your ID.

[00:04:54]>> I missed this spin class again.

[00:04:55]>> apologize for that, but I have a job to do and that's what we have to do.

[00:04:58]>> I understand. Yes, I will give you whatever you need, Pat.

[00:05:12]On September 28th, 2025, Ohio officers responded to a reported active domestic disturbance. A woman was arrested based solely on the testimony of her husband and 11-year-old son. No physical injuries, no independent witnesses, security camera footage disclosed before arrest never reviewed.

[00:05:29]This analysis examines three legal questions. First, whether probable cause was constitutionally adequate. Second, whether pre-arrest questioning constituted custodial interrogation requiring Miranda warnings. Third, whether Ohio's mandatory arrest statute was applied correctly under the totality of the evidence.

[00:05:47]628, do you have Emily attached?

[00:05:53]I'll give this back to you. Okay. Do you mind watching her while we all talk too?

[00:05:56]I need to be washed? Ma'am, like I was explaining to you, this is a domestic incident. We have to keep both parties separated and then we'll kind of go from there. Like I said, no one's under arrest. I have to talk to all the parties involved and then we'll go from there. I understand you're upset, but that's just what we have to do right now, okay?

[00:06:11]>> I just feel like I'm being treated like some kind of a criminal.

[00:06:15]Hi, what's going on?

[00:06:18]Uh she I I guess she saw something on like the history of YouTube.

[00:06:23]Uh Hudson he's having he's been having problems with you know, uh getting on YouTube streaks and things like that during school when he's not Yeah, he's not supposed to. Okay. And uh me and her we've been uh having a little trouble because he's he's been very disruptive and and argumentative with her. You know, she's She was getting aggressive. It was scaring me because she literally went upstairs to grab him and she just like threw him to the floor. She threw your son?

[00:06:53]Okay. And it just uh you know, it's Is he okay? Does he have any >> He's okay. Okay. Do you want him to Physically, he's okay. Okay.

[00:07:02]Okay. But I mean, like So, she >> trying to kick Yeah, like kick me and him out of the house altogether um for a little while now and uh you know, for one reason or another she's just really angry and upset.

[00:07:19]Okay. Is there any um like mental health history or anything like that?

[00:07:23]>> I mean, with her, no. Um I mean, I I have ADHD, but I mean, like that's So, manageable. I take medicine for it. So, she got angry because she saw something on Like YouTube history.

[00:07:36]>> Okay. Your iPad.

[00:07:38]>> Um that that you know, it was the song was called Devil in Disguise.

[00:07:43]It's just a song. It's It's not actually like demonic or anything. It's actually just a story of You know, but she saw the word devil and she blew up.

[00:07:51]So, she just Okay.

[00:07:51]>> Okay, so she saw that and he's the one that searched it. So, he No, well, okay, he did originally a while ago, but I for this morning I did cuz I was looking at I was listening to the song. Okay. to see what, you know, what it was about and everything. Okay, cuz you saw that he was listening to it.

[00:08:09]>> Yes, I was listening to it. Okay.

[00:08:10]>> listening to it and I was like, you know, I should find out more about that. Got you. Uh listen to the song. It's actually, you know, more of a warning of, you know, uh not not judging books by their cover and Okay.

[00:08:21]How old is How old is he?

[00:08:23]>> He is 11.

[00:08:24]11. Okay. All right. Um so he did she did throw him to the ground, you said. Anything else physical?

[00:08:34]That >> So, no. No, no, no. Not against us. She she did throw throw a bunch of his stuff out on the lawn and and, you know, she picked it up, which is Yeah. Well, Some of it. Most of it, I guess. Okay. Actually, most of it. It was Is this your phone?

[00:08:52]>> This is not. This is her phone. Okay. Um that's my phone. Shoe.

[00:08:58]School book and So, nothing physical with you, but she did >> Not with me. throw him. Is there um Obviously, we're going to look into this a little more. We're going to, you know, get both sides of the story or whatever she says.

[00:09:10]>> Um but is there any place that maybe you guys can go today or she can go?

[00:09:17]>> now Right now I was going to take him to swim.

[00:09:20]Okay.

[00:09:20]>> And then I have uh piano lessons that I teach uh afterwards and I guess I was going to take him with me. Yeah, it's probably the best idea.

[00:09:30]>> Okay. Do you have a driver's license on you?

[00:09:33]I have a driver's license. Yes, I have a driver's license. Do you need to see Yes, please.

[00:09:40]So, there's that.

[00:09:42]627 for a deal.

[00:09:55]000 So, Copy.

[00:10:08]So, here's this back for you. So, when he threw Is his Is his name?

[00:10:14]Okay. When she threw him, like how did he do How did How did she do that?

[00:10:18]>> in the He was in the room. She was telling him he had he had to get out.

[00:10:22]I've had enough of it. I don't want I don't want him here anymore. And then she you know, she He was upstairs and sitting and she grabbed him She grabbed him you know, uh towards the doorway.

[00:10:35]And I don't know through the doorway and stuff like that. And um he fell to the ground like Okay, I'm sorry. I was looking at the So, she >> I I caught him to, you know, at least What? his worst of the fall. Yeah. I caught him from the worst of the fall. I mean, he fell down, but at least I like So, when she grabbed him, how did she grab him?

[00:10:51]>> So, she was See, she was was starting to walk past her and stuff like that and she she grabbed him and Like shoulders? Like >> Just like shoulders Yeah. and Okay. Did he didn't hit anything? You were able to catch him yourself?

[00:11:09]>> able to catch he he kind of like went through the door and stumbled and fell and he like turned as he was going down.

[00:11:15]Okay.

[00:11:16]ended up catching his like shoulders and and and head before it Okay. you know, fell fell to the floor. Okay.

[00:11:25]I'm going to get him started on a witness statement real quick and then I'll come to Is it Joseph, correct? So, I know you probably explained to that officer. So I'm going to be the main investigating officer for this. So kind of explain to me what what transpired, what happened today.

[00:11:39]So Yeah, he was being really resistant to completing like his whole thing.

[00:11:43]>> Okay, and that's what your wife was saying. And you know, she was you know, he was back talking and >> Okay, is that out of the norm for him or Lately no. I mean like he's been doing a lot lately that you know, back talking Okay.

[00:11:58]Otherwise being um Preteen. Preteen.

[00:12:01]>> Okay. Aggressive you know, like I don't know. I'm not going to do that. Okay.

[00:12:04]Snarky and all that and it's obviously she's she's not handling it very well.

[00:12:08]She gets She blows up. She gets you know. Um I know me and her have been having some some issues and she's been wanting to like get a divorce and and and quit the whole thing and make you know, make him go with me and >> Okay. She's she's like ready to like get rid of both of us. Okay.

[00:12:24]Uh but uh you know, it was a fairly you know, civil weekend. We were just trying to like you know, get things done. Okay.

[00:12:33]I'm getting him enrolled into a public school so that he can like you know, get out of the house. He's been home schooled for years. Okay. Um but now it's it's you know, kind of a problem because he's doing other things other than school during Okay. time he's supposed to be doing so.

[00:12:48]>> Okay.

[00:12:49]Um but uh so anyways she she was trying to do something on YouTube to Well, she was trying to sign him up for a piano competition. Um one of the things was that he had to go to YouTube video on there and when she was looking on YouTube she saw a thing called Devil in Disguise. It's a it's which in her I I had looked up because he had been been you know, he had listened to it. Mhm. He even told me about it like the disguise and he sang a little bit of it. I was like So I looked it up to find out Okay. what it is.

[00:13:19]It's actually not bad even though it has the word devil in it. It's actually >> Okay.

[00:13:23]warning Okay. not you know, judging books by their cover. you know.

[00:13:27]Uh being being wary of >> Yeah. of people and not just taking things as face value. But, um and um she sees all that and she just she blew up and she's like, "I want him out of the house. I want to, you know, um yeah, I think you you guys need to never come back. Just take him and just never come back."

[00:13:44]>> Okay. She went upstairs and Hudson was in his room uh the school room and she she uh he tried to go past her and she she grabbed him and threw him to the ground with his shoulders and uh he kind of like did a twist. I caught him So, she went up to the school room She went up to the school room.

[00:14:02]>> to get him to get him, throw him out of the house. Okay, so she wanted to throw him out of the house.

[00:14:08]>> the house. Okay.

[00:14:09]>> Yeah, and she even said that along the way as she said, you know, "I want to, you know, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to throw you out, you know."

[00:14:15]Okay.

[00:14:16]Yeah. Do you care if I go talk to him right now? You can go talk to Okay. So, what your wife explained to me is that she said that you were supposed to be taking him to, I believe, swim practice.

[00:14:27]>> to be taking him to >> And she said that you were running late and that really upset her. She said >> that's not true. Okay. All right.

[00:14:34]Um there.

[00:14:36]Um okay.

[00:14:37]Um so, yes, I'm supposed to be going to swim practice. No, it was had nothing to do with it being late.

[00:14:42]>> Okay. Um she got upset because of what she saw on YouTube and and and that whole thing. She That's what she was yelling about and said god damn it in the name and Okay. stuff like that.

[00:14:52]Um obviously, we were supposed to be getting ready for swim. He was being resistant to getting ready in the first place. That's why he was in his room. He wasn't on task. Okay.

[00:15:01]>> Trying to actually like Okay. the door, he was up there Okay. drawing or something. I don't I can't remember what it was, but Um so, but anyways, she she got upset.

[00:15:10]She threw him down. I caught I caught him on the way down and then So, what do you mean on the way down? Was it like oh, down the steps or was it >> No, no, it was through the doorway of the bedroom and then I I reached down and I grabbed him.

[00:15:22]>> So, he never like hit the ground, you kind of caught He never hit the ground.

[00:15:24]I grabbed him before his head Was her intent because he wasn't listening to her or do you think her intent was to hurt him? She was She was very very angry and she was ready to throw him.

[00:15:35]She's like, "I'm throwing you out. You need to get out of here and never come you know never come back." And and you know I'm I'm you know she said to me, "I'm done with you." And she she you know did the same you know said basically said you never come back.

[00:15:48]>> is that your phone?

[00:15:49]>> That's her phone. Okay, so she said that was her phone. Okay.

[00:15:51]>> phone.

[00:15:52]All right and then uh Do you think she intended to hurt him when he did that? I think she was mad enough to hurt him, yeah. Okay.

[00:15:59]Um That's what scared me. Was that.

[00:16:02]Yeah. Okay. So have you guys That's what made me call. Have you guys been having some difficulties?

[00:16:06]>> some difficulties, yes. Okay. Yeah. So I I I was out here last year I believe.

[00:16:10]You guys I if I remember correctly were you suffering from some early onset Alzheimer's? Is that if Not Alzheimer's but I have ADHD and then I was also suffering from some And I'm not saying that's just from what I my memory recalls I remember that being an something that It's okay. I I I understand. It was a while ago and you're in the ballpark I guess. Yeah. Um but ADHD also depression. So I was having a really hard time.

[00:16:36]>> Okay. Um you know just coping with with you know life in general >> Yeah.

[00:16:42]How has her mental health been lately?

[00:16:44]Lately she's just getting just very angry. Okay. Just I mean anything. Is it towards you towards I mean both of us both. Okay.

[00:16:54]And you said it was pretty good this weekend and then today just kind of like this.

[00:16:57]>> Well no it's not been pretty It's been like hot and cold. Okay. Like you know sometimes it's like really really angry and I mean just a few days ago we we spent we spent a couple days in a hotel.

[00:17:08]Um because she you know she did similar but without basically get out and never I never don't to see you again. So what caused you to come back after that? Did she cool down or Well, okay. So, she cooled down.

[00:17:21]Yes. And on top of that, you know, our lives are fairly intertwined and I didn't have this you know, I don't have family here.

[00:17:29]Mhm. It's not like I can stay with family. And uh you know, on top of that, we you know I mean You know, it it it it was we were trying to be like amicable because she's looking to get a divorce and Okay. Okay, you know, I don't want to like okay, we'll just you know, work together and until we can do that. Okay. Um so, that's kind of where where we were Have you guys started that process or >> not filed for divorce.

[00:17:58]>> Okay. Um this was recent. This was only like you know We we stayed over uh was it a couple days just this last week.

[00:18:07]Um I don't know what day it was. Monday and Tuesday.

[00:18:12]Uh Or Sun- yeah, Sunday. Sunday and then uh we stayed in a hotel, came back Tuesday afternoon.

[00:18:24]And then Work up. You know, I I've had to work um and I work three three jobs. I work as trainer in the early mornings and then I go to work at the garden center for afternoon and then I teach piano in the evening. Okay.

[00:18:37]So, I was doing that and then of course I had to actually call out of work a couple times just this last week um on short notice because because she's like, "I don't want him here anymore." Okay. Do you think today's outburst with him potentially throwing your down and like grabbing him. So, kind of like when she grabbed him, how would you kind of describe that? So Would you like was it both hands and like kind of like >> both hands on the shoulders.

[00:19:04]Shoved >> Shoved into the ground. It was like did you feel it was a disciplinary thing or it was purely It was anger.

[00:19:10]>> out of anger trying to kick him out? out of anger. Okay. It's not a disciplinary thing. Okay.

[00:19:15]>> no control over it. Okay. How did react to that? He was crying. Okay. Yeah. And he was he was upset and he was crying.

[00:19:22]He's like, "You know, why?" You know?

[00:19:25]And so I picked him up, got him back on his feet, and then we started walking out, and that's when she started throwing Okay.

[00:19:33]>> everything out on the lawn. There's still a few things, but she put like most of it while I was Okay.

[00:19:37]>> sitting there by the car.

[00:19:38]>> Okay.

[00:19:39]Um I'm going to go find Okay.

[00:19:41]>> want to just kind of like the other expletive, fill this out. Unfortunately, I know you were probably going to be late to swim, or he's probably not going to get there at all. Um we do have to do our investigation, so we have to be thorough about it, because Yes. when it is a domestic incident, we have to investigate if charges are warranted, okay? Okay. Um so if you just want to put your name, address, date of birth, all the stuff that you do know, like report number, all that stuff, don't worry about it. If you just want to take a couple minutes to fill that out, I'll be right back with you.

[00:20:03]Under Ohio Revised Code Section 2919.25A, domestic violence requires knowingly causing or attempting to cause physical harm to a family or household member.

[00:20:15]Ohio Revised Code Section 2901.01A3 defines physical harm as any injury or physiological impairment, regardless of gravity or duration. A child residing in the home qualifies as a household member under the statute. The threshold question is whether grabbing a child by the shoulders and pushing him toward a doorway, where the father caught him before impact, satisfies the attempt element under Section 2919.25.

[00:20:43]Ohio courts have held that an attempt requires a knowing act directed at causing physical harm. Whether the force was disciplinary, coercive, or assaultive is a jury question. But at the probable cause stage, the officer need only find reasonable grounds to believe the offense occurred. Probable cause is governed by Beck versus Ohio, 1964, and Illinois versus Gates, 1983.

[00:21:08]Both apply a totality of circumstances standard. The question is whether the facts known to the officer at the moment of arrest would warrant a reasonable person to believe a crime had been committed. In this case, probable cause rested entirely on two witness accounts, one from a husband in an acrimonious divorce proceeding, one from an 11-year-old child in the middle of a disciplinary dispute. No physical evidence, no visible injuries, no independent corroboration. Witness credibility is legally material to the probable cause calculus. Maryland versus Pringle, 2003, confirms that officers must assess the reliability of the information, not merely its existence.

[00:21:44]Here, Joseph, the husband, had disclosed an ongoing divorce proceeding, recent displacement from the home, and a diagnosis of early-onset cognitive decline, combined with ADHD and depression. Cognitive impairment affecting memory formation and recall is not a peripheral biographical fact. It directly bears on the reliability of the testimony triggering the arrest. Hudson, the 11-year-old son, was interviewed without a trained forensic interviewer and in close proximity to his father immediately before speaking with officers.

[00:22:14]The National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Protocol, the NICHD Protocol, requires that child witness interviews be conducted by a trained specialist using non-leading, non-suggestive questions in a controlled environment free from prior parental influence. None of those conditions were met here. The child's account, while consistent with the father's, was structurally susceptible to cross-contamination.

[00:22:38]Against this, the subject disclosed the existence of home security cameras upstairs before the arrest was executed.

[00:22:44]Under established Fourth Amendment principles, officers are not required to exhaust all the potentially exculpatory evidence before establishing probable cause. However, available objective evidence, particularly video, carries significantly greater evidentiary weight than competing testimonial accounts in a contested credibility case. Arresting on testimonial probable cause while ignoring immediately accessible video evidence creates a legally vulnerable record. If that footage contradicts the arresting account, any resulting conviction may face a substantial constitutional challenge. Ohio Revised Code Section 2935.032, the mandatory domestic violence arrest provision, eliminates officer discretion once the officer has reasonable grounds to believe a domestic violence offense has occurred. The officer correctly identified and applied this statute. His statement to the husband that the state, not the complainant, prosecutes domestic violence accurately reflects Ohio legislative policy. The mandatory arrest framework reflects a deliberate legislative determination that victims should not bear the burden of deciding whether to initiate prosecution. The officer's application of this statute was legally correct.

[00:23:52]>> Yeah, because I said you should not come back if you're not willing to do your work. Okay. That's true. Where are your kids at now? Were they >> I only have one child.

[00:23:59]>> Okay. Your child, sorry. He's outside.

[00:24:02]Okay.

[00:24:03]>> Probably in the car. I haven't had a chance to see where he is.

[00:24:06]>> Okay. Understood. Understood.

[00:24:10]So, it's basically just an argument that maybe progressed a little too far.

[00:24:13]>> say it was an argument. It happened in like 10 seconds. I asked them to leave.

[00:24:17]I threw their stuff out. I tossed his music book back back outside. Okay.

[00:24:22]Understood.

[00:24:25]All right. Like I said, just give us a >> And I set my phone down, and it's in the sun, so I'd like to go get it if that's okay.

[00:24:30]>> We'll be able to get it in here in just a minute. Um whenever the other officer comes in, we'll grab it that way it's out of the sun.

[00:24:37]This is the kind of thing that makes me think I should divorce my husband.

[00:24:41]Definitely. Obviously, >> believe he did this. It's so unbelievable.

[00:24:46]>> on that, but if it's leading to us being called here, I can understand, you know, that thought process a little bit, so Um He's about to lose his job.

[00:24:55]Again.

[00:24:57]Understood. Understood. That can obviously make things very difficult. I understand that.

[00:25:03]And I told him that he needs to support himself and he's upset. But he's That's not what we talked about today. He's just in general trying to find to ruin my reputation or whatever the case may be.

[00:25:16]>> Has he called us before out here? Like on incidents or No. So we've never been out here before. I called you one time.

[00:25:23]>> Okay.

[00:25:25]How long ago was that? When he was changing his medication for his depression. I understand. He did get violent.

[00:25:31]Okay.

[00:25:34]Yeah, so I mean obviously regarding your marriage, I mean that's something that you guys can figure out definitely, but I would say if it's leading to you know, us being called here multiple times, you know, never hurts to have those conversations or speak to counselors or whatever can happen, so.

[00:26:05]Obviously just because we have to come out here for these types of calls, we do have to take a report for it. Um so we give everyone the option, you don't have to, but it is an option. Do you want to fill out a written statement? No. Okay.

[00:26:17]I mean, should I? Should I be calling an attorney? I don't know. This is not This is not something that I go through. But so I don't I don't have any experience with this.

[00:26:26]>> Yeah, so basically obviously what you're telling me is that there's no violence, no threats, no anything other than just, you know, whatever happened and you tossed the their books outside, right?

[00:26:36]Um that's >> His backpack, okay. Um so obviously that's not domestic violence. Now if you took it and you threw it at his head, that could be a different story, but that's not that's not what you're telling me happened here, right? Um so in those obviously that's a much different circumstance.

[00:26:51]If that what you're telling me is true, no one should probably be getting charged here today.

[00:26:55]Um but ultimately he has to be able to talk to him and kind of figure out what's going on, right? Um but if it is nothing that's no one's going to be arrested, I'm not saying that you need uh need it to write a statement down, but it just kind of gives you an opportunity to give your side of the story other than what you've already told us. But obviously it's all documented on body camera as well. Now, if you want to get an attorney that for Again, this isn't anything criminal, but for like civil matter between you and your husband, that's obviously your right as well. Um but I have no trust.

[00:27:22]The fact that he did this is like it's absolutely absurd. I have no trust.

[00:27:28]The only paperwork I think I should fill out is maybe an ex parte so he can't come back here because if he's willing to lie and do something like this, what else is he capable of? And again, that would be a conversation probably for an attorney because ultimately um we can't just force him to leave, right?

[00:27:42]>> This is wrong. Um so I mean it's one of those things where it's like if you guys are wanting to separate and go your different ways, um that would >> This makes me want to.

[00:27:51]I can understand that, yeah.

[00:27:54]Um So, like I said, we'll figure out kind of what's going on today and then outside of that that would be between you and your husband. That we don't really We obviously don't have any control in that, so.

[00:28:14]How long have you all been married?

[00:28:18]Since 2008. 2008, okay.

[00:28:21]Have you always lived here or lived in different areas? No, I We lived in New York City. Okay.

[00:28:26]>> years, yeah. Oh.

[00:28:29]Didn't have any >> together since I was um 20 years old.

[00:28:34]Didn't have these types of issues in the past? Is this a newer thing or He has cognitive decline.

[00:28:41]He's done.

[00:28:42]He's done.

[00:28:42]Is he diagnosed >> ADHD has gotten severely worse.

[00:28:46]When you say cognitive decline, has he been diagnosed with anything? Okay.

[00:28:50]>> What's he diagnosed with? Cognitive decline. It's like early onset dementia, but it's not categorized as dementia yet because there's like stages.

[00:28:58]>> I see.

[00:29:01]And he has depression.

[00:29:02]Understood. And ADHD. And they're not sure what causes what. The neurologist isn't sure what the root cause is. They certain diseases cause symptoms and they just kind of the chicken and the egg.

[00:29:15]Right. So, understood.

[00:29:18]Understood. And how old is >> well balanced.

[00:29:21]Is he obviously I know you said in the past when his medication's been off, um is that something that's been kind of stabilized for a while or Yeah, yeah, when he remembers to take it. And it even if he forgets, it's not the kind of medication that like will have an immediate effect. It's just that um it's not working.

[00:29:40]Understood. He's just constantly forgetting things.

[00:29:45]Understood.

[00:29:46]It's sad, actually.

[00:29:47]>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you spend you know, that long with somebody, 17 years.

[00:29:51]It's a long time to A longer. Yeah, I mean, obviously >> I was born in '84. Right, so So Yeah.

[00:29:57]Yeah, much longer than that even. Yeah.

[00:30:00]So, it's uh it's very unfortunate.

[00:30:03]Absolutely.

[00:30:05]So, obviously like I said, we just have to do our jobs, make sure everything's >> is hurt. There's not been any violence.

[00:30:10]Right. And that's what obviously we just verify that, right? And then outside of that, we can you know, everything else will just be a more of a civil matter. Um but if there's no violence, no threats, nothing like that, then obviously that's a much different circumstances than if there was. So, that's what we do.

[00:30:26]>> upsetting. That's That's what obviously we just have to verify that, um and then go from there. So.

[00:30:34]How long have you all lived in this house?

[00:30:38]Um so We bought this house before the pandemic started. Shortly before. I understand.

[00:30:57]And you say it was solely over than just kind of being running late today? I know it's been a repetitive behavior.

[00:31:02]Um, but that's kind of what that's the iceberg was today or that kind of forced it to this obviously for us to be called out here. Yes, I keep asking my Yeah.

[00:31:13]to get up, get dressed, be on time. You have to be punctual. You have to honor your commitments.

[00:31:20]>> Understood. If you say you're going to be in a class, you have to go to the class.

[00:31:23]It doesn't matter what kind of class it is, you have to be on time.

[00:31:26]>> Right.

[00:31:27]He's just going through an extremely extremely rebellious phase.

[00:31:31]He doesn't want to do anything I'm asking him to do, which is very frustrating because he's a good kid.

[00:31:39]>> Right, absolutely. But he's a dishonest child. He's not been honest about a lot of things.

[00:31:45]Um, and I've confronted him and told him that we might have to get him like professional counseling because he's getting online more and more and more. Almost to the point where I am contemplating thinking maybe he has like an addiction to um, screen time.

[00:32:06]>> Mhm. It any screen time. And it's really affecting his life in in a negative way. That's what obviously, you know, we see that a lot with kids, especially at age. It's It's a different culture that they're being raised in with, you know, the phones and the computers and just having that constant access.

[00:32:25]>> getting into my accounts and like breaking into Wow.

[00:32:32]my computer and my phone and like Yeah, cuz I was going to say obviously if you have He's bypassing like the parental controls. He's very bright.

[00:32:43]>> That's what it sounds like. Yeah, I mean maybe he has a future in cyber security or something like that, but He's just not respecting the rules.

[00:32:49]>> Right, absolutely. And he's willing to say anything he wants to say, do anything he wants to do to get out to get out from underneath.

[00:32:58]Right. It's cool.

[00:33:01]So, he's in an online school right now and he's been in an online school and it's been a great experience, but I've noticed this year he's having behaviors that are not what I can condone. Right.

[00:33:13]I see.

[00:33:14]So, I understand. It was so bad that he was in the backseat this week and I gave him my phone to listen to some music.

[00:33:23]And when I pulled over to get something to eat, I found him on Minecraft. I understand.

[00:33:30]Even though I told him not to. So, he's just rebelling. He's very wants to show the world that he's in control Right. mode.

[00:33:42]I'm sure, you know, I don't have kids that age, but I can imagine that I'm sure that is a tough thing to get out of them. Um, but at the same time I understand the importance of it. So, I've making sure, you know, he understands this.

[00:33:52]>> are aware. I've had conversations with his teachers about it.

[00:33:56]I've had conversations with his piano teacher about it.

[00:33:59]>> Right.

[00:34:01]And um, he's going to have to learn the hard way, I guess.

[00:34:08]Has it affected his, obviously I know you said he gets behind on school a little bit, but has it affected his grades or anything like that?

[00:34:14]>> his grades. Yes, it has. Mhm. He's always been a straight A student and I think he has a B. Right. Which is like Right. never happens.

[00:34:23]>> Right.

[00:34:24]It has affected his school.

[00:34:27]And it's affected his sleep because then he has to stay up Right.

[00:34:33]And get his work done. Right. When he should be winding down for bed or Absolutely. doing something else. And I mean obviously there's a lot of studies that show screens and that sort of thing if he's doing his work right before bed, you're not getting as good of sleep and that sort of thing.

[00:34:47]>> Exactly. It's very important that he have a that he basically just listen to me. I would agree with you.

[00:34:54]>> [laughter] >> It's pretty simple.

[00:34:56]There he's he's just not respecting the hierarchy. Right. That mom is the boss and >> Right. I mean you >> You are as a child you have to listen to mom. You have to You have to take a shower when I tell you to take a shower and Right.

[00:35:12]comb your brush your teeth and comb your hair in the morning when you're supposed to the normal things.

[00:35:17]>> Absolutely.

[00:35:18]Sadly it is one of those things where you know, obviously I don't want to say he's taking advantage of advantage of the situation but I if there is some issues between you and your and your husband your son might be picking up on that and try to like we've seen that a lot with kids.

[00:35:33]Um >> And you can't spank your kids. Right. I mean like you can but you can't. You you can't. It's not Obviously there's a lot of different beliefs on that. Exactly.

[00:35:43]But So you know, we don't I don't do that. Right. I understand.

[00:35:47]And uh So like raising my voice is like the extensive Right.

[00:35:55]And it's like >> What can I do? You know?

[00:35:58]And if you try to ground him from screens obviously the first thing he starts to do is watch TV.

[00:36:01]>> retaliates. That's when I tell him no.

[00:36:04]When I when I take away the computer.

[00:36:06]Sometimes I physically have to take it away. Right. He gets It's it's it's just a bad situation for with him. Yeah.

[00:36:19]But that didn't happen today. I just asked him to go to swim class. Gotcha.

[00:36:25]Does he enjoy swimming? Is it something he normally does?

[00:36:27]>> He loves swim class.

[00:36:29]In fact, everything he's rebelling about he loves doing.

[00:36:33]He even likes school. I think he's doing it for the sake of rebellion. Right.

[00:36:38]Not because he doesn't like his activities. Actually, he begs to do his activities. Doing it just to do it instead of the outcome that is happening from not being able to do it that activity.

[00:36:47]>> Yes. His violin teacher says that some sometimes children like to just test their boundary in whatever way they can test the boundary or push buttons because they want to see how far they can take their authoritative Especially, I mean, you said he's 11 years old, is that correct? So >> be 12 in December.

[00:37:12]>> Right. So, obviously that's, you know, kind of an age where boys [snorts] start to feel like they're going to be men and whether even though they're not there yet, um, that mindset starts to change a little bit. So, I would say this is probably the early stages of him testing that to see if, you know, not that he's going to be the man of the house or anything like that, but if he can how far he can get away with certain things.

[00:37:33]So.

[00:37:37]It's highly I don't know. It seems highly unusual to me.

[00:37:41]Okay.

[00:37:42]I didn't know any boy that was like that when I was growing up that acted that way. Yeah. I mean, obviously in my job we see this a lot, right? So, I would say we >> You see it a lot?

[00:37:51]>> Yes, I would say >> think this is so bizarre and rare.

[00:37:54]And you need to like I would say this is a daily occurrence of these types of calls. I I would agree with you, it's definitely >> be. It shouldn't be a daily occurrence at all.

[00:38:06]>> Yeah.

[00:38:07]So.

[00:38:08]Should never happen.

[00:38:10]At all.

[00:38:23]I'm assuming they'll be back in here in a minute. Um like I said, I don't know what they could possibly be doing. Yeah.

[00:38:28]I would assume if your husband's just trying to share certain things, and like you said, if he is trying to talk poorly about you, I don't know if that's what's happening or not. Um but ultimately, I'm there have There's some sort of conversation, and then just trying to piece together, you know, what exactly happened, and make sure there's nothing more than just a argument or disagreement. Um but He's a good boy. My son's a good boy.

[00:39:00]Yeah, absolutely.

[00:39:01]>> making a lot of mistakes. Absolutely.

[00:39:04]Well, he'll probably do that a lot over the course of his life, but you hope to have >> have him learn now. Right. And you'd rather make mistakes [snorts] about being on screens a little too much than something criminal or something like that, so. Yes.

[00:39:17]>> understand where you're coming from.

[00:39:21]It sounds like he's a pretty bright kid of he's getting good grades and >> Highly intelligent. I mean, if he can play multiple instruments and all this other stuff, I'd say he probably be a probably is, so.

[00:39:35]I think that intelligence is part of the problem. He gets bored. Yeah, I could see that as well.

[00:39:40]>> And I understand why he gets bored, but he still has to have respect for Completely.

[00:39:45]>> his teachers. His teachers, his parents, I mean >> I tell him like it doesn't matter how unenthusiastic you are about whatever it is that you're studying. Absolutely.

[00:39:58]>> You have to show basic respect for the people who are trying to help you learn. Absolutely.

[00:40:05]>> And the school system has required curriculum, and you have to learn it.

[00:40:09]And you have to do the time turn things in time on in on time.

[00:40:17]So.

[00:40:19]Well, you.

[00:40:20]Obviously I know you said your husband was. Is he diagnosed with anything or is it I know you said that you said talk to a professional person.

[00:40:27]>> anything.

[00:40:28]Can I just take a look at something real quick?

[00:40:33]You want to grab you care if I grab her phone real quick off the Can he stay out here please?

[00:40:39]Where do you want me?

[00:40:41]Is it this one right here?

[00:40:47]Oh wait, it's not playing out there in the sun.

[00:40:50]I'm just trying to figure out what happened.

[00:40:53]Well, I already told you what happened. I'll be right back with you.

[00:41:03]What is going on?

[00:41:05]I'm not sure. They're just checking something. Like I said, if I could just have you >> filming my whole house? They're like they're not taking extra video than this. And if the inside of even if even if someone did request that, it's all redacted footage inside of home. So it's not something that you would have to be concerned about. So Um do you need a witness statement? You said you didn't want one correct? The witness statement that we discussed.

[00:41:32]>> I don't think I need to do anything.

[00:41:33]Okay.

[00:41:34]So I have a couple other questions just based on talking to your and your husband. I just have a couple follow up questions, okay? Yes. So They again they gave me a different story about how this all started. So they were saying it was potentially a YouTube song that you saw potentially looked up.

[00:41:49]Does that ring any bells?

[00:41:52]No. What happened was is I told him to go to swim class on time.

[00:41:56]>> Okay. And I told him he needed to take all of his things with him because he was going to be going with Joseph to the afterwards and not coming back. And I said you are late and you need to go right now.

[00:42:07]>> Okay. So did you tell him to go up to his room and put his socks on?

[00:42:11]Is that So you said he was running late and that's why he told us to go >> No, I said you need to go get in the car right now and have your shoes and your socks on. He didn't have his shoes and his socks >> he said he told us he went upstairs to get his socks on and you followed him upstairs. Do you remember that? I didn't follow him upstairs. He was upstairs coloring instead of getting his shoes on. Okay. So, when you found him potentially coloring not getting his socks on, what happened next?

[00:42:37]>> I picked him up and I said go downstairs right now and go get in the car because you are late.

[00:42:41]>> So, you When you say you picked him up, what did exactly did you do? He was sitting down in his white chair and I picked him up and I put him in my arms and I started to walk him down the steps. Okay.

[00:42:51]>> Because sometimes that is the only way to get him to go. When he's doing his thing, if he wants to keep doing it.

[00:42:58]>> Okay. So, I Okay.

[00:43:01]>> not hurt. He wasn't picked up in any kind of >> Well, so Wait. And tell a very different story about picking him up. I'm sure they do. They're both very much in trouble with me because they are not taking care of their responsibilities and being ready to be on >> why would he lie to us? Because he doesn't want to be in trouble. Okay.

[00:43:20]Again. Okay.

[00:43:21]>> being on time and being late and missing his class again.

[00:43:25]>> So, >> For like the fourth week So, you're saying nothing else happened. You just picked him up out of his chair, picked him up, I sternly said, "It's time to go and you need to go now." Okay. So, Go get in the car. You want to tell them tell you what they told me? Okay, so they told me that you was going up to get his socks because he's not allowed to leave the house without socks on. So, he said he was trying to get his socks on. He said you came upstairs, grabbed him by both arms, picked him up off the ground, and then threw him at that cupboard in the hallway upstairs. He they said that got off of his feet and hit his back and then fell to the ground where your husband caught him.

[00:44:03]That's what both of them are telling me.

[00:44:08]Again. Is there a reason why they're telling a very different story than what you're telling me?

[00:44:13]Yes, there is.

[00:44:14]>> Okay. They and they also said, "As you were doing this, you were telling him, 'To I don't want you in this house anymore. Get out.'"

[00:44:22]>> Yes, because I do. I don't want him to come back into this house this afternoon. He needs to go to >> They were making it seem like you meant that you don't want him in this house at all.

[00:44:32]That's how he said it. He's like he he said that you have made it clear you don't want him in this house at all. He even told us a story a couple weeks ago where you dropped him off, kicked him out of the car in the middle of nowhere, cuz you didn't want him anymore, and he had to find strangers to call someone to come and pick him up. Okay. So, as I was explaining to this officer, has been very rebellious. Okay.

[00:44:55]17-year-old? It's not acceptable. Okay.

[00:44:58]I keep telling him he's an online student.

[00:45:01]And he's always been an online student.

[00:45:03]>> Okay. But this year his school is different, and he has to do his assignments on time. Okay. The YouTube thing is has nothing to do with today. Okay.

[00:45:12]>> thing is an ongoing issue that I'm potentially going to hire like a psychologist or counselor to work with him on, because he's getting on screens Okay. repeatedly when he's supposed to be doing his schoolwork, and he's scrolling YouTube shorts. Okay.

[00:45:28]>> bypassing my parental controls on all of my electronic devices, Okay. including his school-issued computer, and doing that instead of doing his schoolwork. Okay. So, I had to move my office into his schoolroom to watch him to make sure that he's not cheating, to make sure that he's staying on task, Mhm. he's doing his schoolwork, and he is very very angry because he's now not getting away with what he was getting away with before.

[00:46:01]Okay.

[00:46:02]So, I want to backtrack a little bit to I want to talk a little bit more about you picking him up, okay?

[00:46:08]>> Nobody is hurt today.

[00:46:10]>> Just because there's no one's hurt doesn't mean something didn't happen.

[00:46:13]Okay. So, hug There's not any abuse that anyone did toward anyone in the house.

[00:46:19]Did you pick him throw him at that cupboard upstairs?

[00:46:22]>> No, I did not throw him. I picked him up and I took it tried to take him down the steps. You said you tried to take him down the steps?

[00:46:30]>> I tried to walk him down the steps.

[00:46:31]>> Okay, like I said, that's a very different story within what both of them are telling me.

[00:46:35]>> And that is why he is That is why he's in so much trouble because he's not being forthright about his online activities. He's not being forthright about getting his school work done. He's not I I caught him using Google Lens the other day trying to take a test. Google Lens is where you can like take a picture of a question and then AI gives you the answer. Well, his school doesn't allow AI. So, he got grounded for that. Today, I canceled his private here at my house because he didn't have his theory homework done.

[00:47:05]His professor didn't come here for his composition lesson because he he he was in She's been in trouble basically since he woke up this morning because he hasn't been doing his school work. Okay.

[00:47:13]And I caught him cheating.

[00:47:15]Okay. This week. So, I mean that has nothing to do with that, but I said you cannot come back here if you're not going to follow the house rules. House rules are house rules and they are also your school rules as well because you do your school here in the house. And I said authorities can be called for lying and cheating and get doing unauthorized activities online. He got a hold of my credit card and purchased things so he could game on the computer. So, he's in trouble and he wants out of trouble because I'm having to basically be a good mom and tell him you need to be respectful, honest, and accountable.

[00:47:59]And he's acting out. I'm going to talk to you about those things that you talked to me about real quick and then I'll be right back in, okay? You just hang tight for me for 1 second. It would be helpful if you could tell him some of your experiences with boys that don't learn how to The most significant legal vulnerability in this case is the Miranda timing issue. Miranda versus Arizona, 1966, requires that suspects be advised of their rights before any custodial interrogation. Custody is triggered not by formal arrest, but by whether a reasonable person in the subject's position would believe they were free to leave, as established in Berkemer versus McCarty, 1984.

[00:48:41]In the final phase of the pre-arrest interview, the officer presented the subject with the specific allegations from the husband and child and asked her to account for the discrepancy. At that point, multiple officers were present inside the subject's home. The questioning had shifted from investigative to accusatory. A reasonable person in that position would not have believed they were free to terminate the encounter and leave. Under those circumstances, a court could find that the pre-arrest questioning constituted custodial interrogation requiring Miranda warnings that had not yet been given. Any statements made during that questioning would be subject to a suppression motion under the Fifth Amendment. Defense counsel should evaluate this timeline carefully. The Miranda warning itself was administered correctly and promptly at the moment of handcuffing, fully consistent with the requirements of Miranda versus Arizona. The subject was advised of the right to remain silent, the right to counsel, and the right to appointed counsel if she could not afford one. She did not explicitly invoke any right, but the officer appropriately advised her she was not required to answer questions.

[00:49:44]The subject's own conduct raises a Fifth Amendment consideration. She had earlier asked whether she should call an attorney, a question that, if treated as an invocation would have required officers to cease questioning immediately under Edwards versus Arizona 1981.

[00:50:00]The officer did not treat it as an invocation and the subject did not press the assertion. She continued speaking voluntarily. Courts have generally held that an ambiguous reference to an attorney does not constitute an unequivocal invocation under Davis versus United States 1994.

[00:50:17]The officer's decision to continue questioning was legally defensible, but the subject's failure to explicitly invoke her right was her clearest legal misstep in this entire encounter. On use of force, the arrest itself, verbal commands followed by handcuffing, was proportional and appropriate under Graham versus Connor 1989.

[00:50:37]The subject was cooperative and non-resistant throughout. The officer loosened the handcuffs upon complaint of discomfort and accommodated the subject's request to remove her jacket.

[00:50:46]No excessive force issues arise from this arrest. Additional charges potentially applicable under Ohio law include Ohio Revised Code Section 2919.22 endangering children, which prohibits a parent from creating a substantial risk of serious physical harm to a child. If the husband and son's account is credited, that charge may carry additional evidentiary weight because it does not require that physical harm actually occurred, only that the parent's conduct created a substantial risk. The absence of injury is not a complete defense to endangering children under Ohio law. talk to all parties.

[00:51:21]What's going to happen today is we are going to be arresting Emily for domestic violence for her assault on your son.

[00:51:27]Okay?

[00:51:28]So, what that's she's going to be going to jail tonight.

[00:51:32]Um I would prefer probably not to see her mom his mom come out in handcuffs. I feel like that's probably best for him.

[00:51:40]So, but we still have some more things we need for you to fill out. Um if you potentially want to maybe we up just like her up the road just a little bit, that way he's not it's not something that he sees.

[00:51:51]Do you have any questions about that?

[00:51:55]In so the way domestic violence works in the state of Ohio, it doesn't matter whether you are want to press charges, domestic violence is if we establish enough probable cause that it has happened, we have to make that arrest.

[00:52:07]We don't have a choice. So based off of your account of what happened, um I believe that is what transpired. Um and I do not believe she's telling me the full truth, so I do especially sorry and it matched up exactly with what you were telling me. So that's kind of where we're going with that today, okay?

[00:52:27]Um just give us a couple minutes and she's probably going to be coming out and going back in one of our cars, okay?

[00:52:31]All right. You Yep. Thank you.

[00:52:35]Yeah, and then we'll have some forms and stuff for you to fill out.

[00:52:38]But his cognitive decline is bad.

[00:52:41]Okay, Emily. So I've talked to everyone involved. Okay.

[00:52:44]>> I've talked to you and your dad. So what I'm going to have you to do is can you just turn around and face that wall for me?

[00:52:52]Can you please turn around face that wall and place [snorts] your hands behind your back?

[00:52:56]So you are being placed under arrest for domestic violence, okay? Do you >> No one is hurt. Stacy, okay. Let's just put your hands behind your back.

[00:53:04]>> Face that way.

[00:53:08]Did you Did you hear that?

[00:53:09]>> Hey, face that way. Spread your Spread your legs.

[00:53:24]It's fluffy coat.

[00:53:26]Sorry, I wanted to see >> You're okay.

[00:53:30]I think I have video cameras upstairs.

[00:53:34]Okay, if you do, we'll take a look at them.

[00:53:36]But like I said, right now based off the evidence that we have >> What evidence? Both Hudson and your husband's stories. But that's a story, that's not evidence.

[00:53:45]All right.

[00:53:46]So, I'm going to read you something, okay?

[00:53:51]You have the right to remain silent.

[00:53:53]Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him or her present with you while you're being questioned. If you cannot afford it to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent represent you before any questioning if you wish. You can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements. Do you understand your rights as I've explained to you?

[00:54:10]Having these in mind, are you willing to answer any of my questions?

[00:54:14]So, like I said, you don't have to answer anything, but that's kind of what's happening today. So, you're going to be going to jail for a domestic violence tonight, okay?

[00:54:20]I'm going to ask if you don't mind. You want to go and put Are these your shoes?

[00:54:23]>> Yep. So, we're going to go step this way. Can I wear some socks? I can't go like this. I need to put an undershirt on.

[00:54:31]It's your call. You told me I would be able to >> try to grab you one, okay? We'll We can I haven't done anything wrong.

[00:54:37]>> take one to the jail or Can you just have a T-shirt going underneath that?

[00:54:40]Can you just wear your T-shirt? Cuz they're going to give you different clothes there at the jail. I would like to have proper undergarments on.

[00:54:48]They probably I don't think they even let you wear those.

[00:54:50]>> No. They're not allowed to. They'll give you some. Can you loosen that? It hurts.

[00:54:53]Which one? Both of them. Okay.

[00:54:55]They're both very loose, but I can try to loosen them a little bit. Would you want to wear them?

[00:54:59]>> They're not meant to be comfortable. Or would you rather take the jacket off and just wear the shirt?

[00:55:04]Cuz we can grab I mean I'm not going to do anything wrong. I just asked for the very first time.

[00:55:12]Okay, they're all They're already really loose, so I can't loosen them them anymore, okay?

[00:55:16]You have a lot of space in here.

[00:55:20]Here. If you want to just We're going to step this way. We're just going to face the corner of your wall. Okay? If you just want to spread your feet for me. I thought if you you would have to see some kind of hurt. Nobody was hurt.

[00:55:33]A person could just make an allegation like this to get out of doing homework?

[00:55:37]And a mom can be sent to jail?

[00:55:45]Do you guys need the coat off? I can take the coat off. I'm burning up. Okay.

[00:55:49]I only put it on because I wanted to be respectful to him. Okay. Do you care if she takes the coat off? Yeah, I'm going to take this coat off. I'm going to please can I just take this coat off?

[00:55:56]Yep. We're just going to We'll let you take the jacket off, okay?

[00:55:58]>> was being respectful to you, sir. Yep.

[00:56:01]Now you can just let your arm hang down the side.

[00:56:04]All right.

[00:56:08]I just was I'm sweaty. I was mowing the grass this morning.

[00:56:12]I was getting ready to take a shower.

[00:56:13]Turn Face that way. Well, I'll We'll have you take them off, okay? I'll just take I'll just take them off.

[00:56:20]All right. Go and lift your arm up slightly kind of vertical for me.

[00:56:24]We'll take your phone with you.

[00:56:26]It's almost dead. Okay. They're not going to let you have it at the jail anyway. Go and face that way again. Set your jacket right over here now.

[00:56:33]Put your hands behind your back. Yep.

[00:56:35]Interlace them like you're praying.

[00:56:37]Interlace your fingers.

[00:56:59]Can I go brush my teeth? All right. Just spread your feet for me. No, not right now.

[00:57:05]Okay. Do you have any pockets on you?

[00:57:06]Nothing on you? Nothing on you? No.

[00:57:07]Nothing on you? No. Just take that stuff. I mean there's a pocket above my bra and my t-shirt pocket.

[00:57:14]No. It's all right. It's going to be okay. Just breathe for me.

[00:57:18]Okay.

[00:57:19]Okay. We'll go back to my car. All right. You want to take your purse?

[00:57:22]Yeah, hold on to this.

[00:57:25]All right. We're going to step outside.

[00:57:26]Do you want to put your shoes on? Yeah, go ahead and put your shoes on. I'd rather put nicer shoes on.

[00:57:30]>> Okay. Do you have Are they close by?

[00:57:32]>> They're going >> give you Crocs at the jail.

[00:57:33]Yeah, they're going to Once you get to the jail, they're going to give you completely different set of wardrobes.

[00:57:38]So, if you just want to throw those on for now.

[00:57:39]>> I going to jail?

[00:57:40]>> Ma'am, like I explained, you're under arrest for domestic violence, okay? If you just want to put your shoes on. Why?

[00:57:43]I don't understand this process. I don't understand how this could even happen. I don't understand any of it. So, we're going to walk this way.

[00:57:52]I'm a good person. I don't even get traffic violations.

[00:57:54]>> not saying you're not a good person, but unfortunately We're going to walk to that car over there, okay?

[00:58:08]What What is the purpose of jail?

[00:58:10]Ma'am, when someone's arrested for a domestic violence in the state of Ohio, you have >> upset anybody. All right. Go ahead and face the car. Just stand still. Look, face this way.

[00:58:20]Don't So, if I'd called him, then he would be the one doing this?

[00:58:28]>> No, ma'am. Like I said, in the course of our course of our investigation, this is what the outcome is.

[00:58:32]>> This is There's no investigation.

[00:58:37]I'm going to put the seat belt on. Don't take it off.

[00:58:41]All right, just hang tight.

[00:58:42]Can I get a phone number for her?

[00:58:44]For her? That's her. Which one? You can get >> having my arms back here like this >> Unfortunately, your I can't put them in the front. They have to be in the back.

[00:58:51]>> sit to one side, like face that window or face this window, like turn your body. Don't lean on your hand. It's more comfortable.

[00:58:59]So, you like pivot yourself and place your legs on one side.

[00:59:03]Yeah, face towards the window, not on your hands.

[00:59:06]Where are you taking me?

[00:59:08]Give me 1 second, ma'am. I'll explain everything to you here in a minute.

[00:59:12]All right, what's a good phone number for you?

[00:59:14]All right, just hang tight. I'll answer all your questions here in a minute.

[00:59:18]Grading the investigating officer. B minus. The grade is reduced for two reasons. First, failure to review or secure the home security camera footage before arrest. Despite the subject's explicit disclosure before handcuffing, second, the pre-arrest questioning in the confrontational final phase raised unresolved Miranda timing questions that could generate suppression litigation.

[00:59:39]Neither error is egregious, but both represent investigative decisions that a more cautious officer would have handled differently. Grading the subject, Emily, B+. The grade is reduced for one reason.

[00:59:51]She continued speaking voluntarily after raising the question of an attorney at the precise moment at which he should have stopped talking entirely. Every voluntary statement made during an active investigation becomes a tool the prosecution may use. The legally optimal course, upon the questioning turning accusatory, was to state clearly, "I am invoking my right to counsel and will not answer further questions." She did not do so. Grading the husband, Joseph, C+. Joseph's cognitive decline diagnosis further complicates the reliability of his testimony.

[01:00:23]His assessment that Emily was mad enough to hurt the child constitutes opinion testimony about intent, which is precisely the mental state the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Opinion testimony about another person's intent, offered by a witness with a known cognitive condition, and a material interest in the outcome, will face serious credibility challenges at trial. Lessons from this incident for citizens and officers alike. Second, Ohio's mandatory arrest statute is not a substitute for thorough investigation. It eliminates discretion at the arrest stage. It does not eliminate the officer's obligation to build the strongest, most reliable probable cause record possible before reaching that stage. The quality of the pre-arrest investigation determines the strength of every downstream prosecutorial and judicial decision.

[01:01:07]Third, citizens must understand that ambiguous statements about wanting an attorney do not protect them. Under Davis versus United States, only an unequivocal, unambiguous invocation of the right to counsel requires officers to stop questioning. Asking, "Should I call an attorney?"

[01:01:25]is not an invocation. Saying, "I want an attorney and I am not answering any more questions" is That distinction can determine the outcome of a criminal case. Fourth, in contested credibility domestic violence cases, the reliability of each witness, including their mental health history, cognitive capacity, and motive is legally material and must be weighed carefully. Probable cause built on a single credibility determination without objective corroboration is legally sufficient under Ohio law, but it is the weakest form of probable cause, and it produces convictions only when the fact-finder ultimately credits one account over the other. Let us know if there is an interaction or legal topic that you would like us to discuss in the comments below. Thank you for watching, and don't forget to check out our second channel, Audit the Court, for even more police interaction and courtroom content.