Is Distraction a Compulsion In Anxiety Recovery? (Episode 157)

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:01]Hey guys, uh my name is James. I'm from Canada. You can use my name. I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on distraction as a compulsion. As I see a lot in the OCD community specifically, people will recommend to distract your mind. But if you're doing it to escape feeling a certain way, I I view that as a compulsion. I think if you just naturally live by your values, your body will self-regulate and distraction will become a product of that naturally. Um, and another thing is trust within yourself. Responding to intrusive thoughts with the idea like maybe, maybe not. Living with uncertainty, but I'm going to choose to trust myself or learn to trust myself again and stick with my values. Those are a couple things that I've found very helpful. your podcast has been helpful and to thank you guys.

[00:00:54]>> Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 157 of the podcast. We are I don't know when we're recording, but uh today we're going to talk about distraction as a potential compulsion. Can distraction be a compulsion? It's a good question. The answer is yes. See you next week.

[00:01:11]Anyway, I'm Drew Linselada. I am one half of Disordered. I'm a therapist that specializes in pract in the practice of anxiety and anxiety disorders in New York. A former sufferer of the things we talk about here on disordered uh psychoeducator, social media guy, podcaster clearly. And I'm joined as always by my co-host from across the pond. That would be I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as anxiety Josh. I'm a psychotherapist and author who lives in Manchester in the UK. It is currently 30 due to degrees. I am melting. My organs are boiling. Um, I'm unsticking myself from surfaces and myself. Um, yeah, it's it's it's quite unpleasant, but what is pleasant is co-hosting this wonderful podcast?

[00:01:56]>> It is. It is one of my favorite hours of the week when we do this. No joke.

[00:01:59]Seriously. So, can distraction be a compulsion? And by the way, thank you.

[00:02:04]Uh, sender inner. Uh, I don't remember if we were allowed to use that person's name.

[00:02:08]>> Question sender in >> question sender inner. Uh really great question because and I and I get asked this all the time in the comment section in the community in my therapy practice but isn't that distraction? What do you think?

[00:02:21]>> Yeah, >> it can do. But then again, is the question is is distraction a bad thing?

[00:02:29]Uh I used to have a I think I mentioned it before I used have a plaque in my old practice. It was said ABR anything but rumination and sometimes it's distraction. Uh I often pontificate as well that anxiety disorders are distracting you. So why not fight fire with fire, you know? Oh, isn't that just distracting from the anxiety? Well, yeah, it's distracting you from your day. Well, why don't you get on with your day uh and and not give it attention like pretend it's not there or whatever. But also it's a fantastic question because it's the difference between it brings up the the the question of am I distracting or am I choosing to focus on something else more productive more values driven like the question Cinder said what am I doing with my focus and we'll talk about today it's a great subject >> yeah and I think if you do this right and I'm using air quotes here. There's always going to be some distraction.

[00:03:31]Distraction is going to be part of the deal. There is, you can't help it. You will get distracted. I always try to teach people, you know, what's the intent if your intention is to make your lunch while you're anxious. Well, you will maybe get distracted if you can move your attention there and you've gotten you've gotten better at that, but or is your intention I must distract myself? So, which comes first? the distraction because of the activity that you choose or the attention that you choose or does distraction is at the top of the list you know item one distract now I have to find something to distract with or is distraction the second after I'm going to do this thing so it really it could get very nuanced though you know and and if you if you make a mistake you make a mistake we say that all the time like recover wrong today it's all right it's all good but >> yeah you you got to like be careful of the OCD and there's Um, it's no surprise or coincidence that within the OCD online community, people obsessed with defining things as a singularity. Like, is that distraction?

[00:04:34]Now, I need 100% certainty if that was distraction or not. Was that healthy distraction? Was that a compulsion? Was how do I know that's a compulsion? And then you end up just ruminating about what the definition is, which is ironically OCD. So >> sometimes it to to to borrow a phrase from my cousin and what the youngsters say now, it's just not that deep.

[00:04:54]Sometimes it's like, but was that the correct way to distract myself? Like no, like it doesn't.

[00:05:01]If you're getting pulled into the rumination and the seeking certainty and the 100% certainty, then it doesn't really matter. Um I often use the example, I don't know if I've used it before, but I share it with clients and stuff. Um, there was a difference. So, I like playing computer games or play PlayStation sometimes. And back when I was really sensitized, in the loop, raging OCD, panic disorder, stuff like that, I would be like, "Oh my god, I'm feeling the feelings. I I I hate these feelings." And then I'd run to the PlayStation and frantically load up the game and start clicking buttons and, you know, playing that and checking. Is it gone? I don't I'm too afraid how I feel.

[00:05:41]I need to distract myself. Yeah, correct. Similarly, same situation. Not so long ago. I sat there. I was feeling a bit anxious. Noticed I want to get pulled into ruminating and, you know, didn't like that. And I was like, well, I've noticed I'm ruminating. I've noticed I don't like how I feel. Um, what would non- anxious me be doing?

[00:06:00]I'll probably play the PlayStation. So, I did exactly the same behavior. I walked over to the computer, picked up my PlayStation controller, and started playing the computer game.

[00:06:12]same action, but what's the difference there, Drew?

[00:06:15]>> I think it's the intent in the end. It's the intent. Like, no, I'm going to go play this game because I like it. It might be relaxing. It speaks to who I really am. And yeah, I have to make sure that I don't The difference is ah, here we go. I am not trying to get away from the anxiety. I am choosing to not give it my attention. Now, that's going to sound ridiculous. That's the whole Stewie Griffin. It's not like I want to murder Lois. I just want her to not be alive. Like there's but there is a difference like No, no, no. I have to practice moving my attention somewhere else and I'm going to pick something that has some sort of value to me. So I think it is intention that that really makes the difference in the end.

[00:06:58]>> But it's also nuanced because I know if I sit and not ruminate and play the PlayStation, I'm more likely to feel better.

[00:07:05]>> That's right. You the happy secondary outcome is you will likely get distracted. That's why I say distraction is always going to be in there. So if you are somebody in the studio audience was saying she was eating lunch with her mom yesterday and she was experiencing a lot of anxiety and she tried to really just pay attention to the conversation with her mother. Well, if you're if you keep practicing moving that attention and you are willing to be brave and stop doing the whole like, yeah, but yeah, but oh, and you really focus on that thing, there is a chance that distraction will arise out of the chaos and suddenly you won't notice what you were feeling or thinking. But that's the secondary effect. Just like desensitization is the secondary effect of willful tolerance and practicing exposures, we don't aim directly for it.

[00:07:49]It's what happens when we aim at a better target. So, attentional control first. Distraction will likely arise.

[00:07:55]That's not a bad thing if it does.

[00:07:56]That's a lesson.

[00:07:58]>> Yeah, that was a great answer, by the way.

[00:08:00]>> Um, am I distracting? Am I distracting or am I just choosing to focus on something else?

[00:08:08]>> And what am I focusing on? Sometimes I think that matters, too. There are there are some for the artists among us, I I'm sorry. Like it's okay if you like to do art, but remember when the coloring coloring book was all the things I mean I was a >> by numbers color by numbers >> a few years back it was the adult coloring books you know in in the social media tropes when they come and go and the fads come and go.

[00:08:32]>> Leave my coloring book alone. I've got a Nintendo one and >> you know there before the narcissist I am an artist >> the everyone is a narcissist. Everybody was gaslighting me. Before that there was adult coloring books. Anything that went wrong in your life, you got your adult coloring book. You brought it with you no matter where you were because it's a distraction. Yeah, but that's a problem. Would you normally be coloring right now? Are you choosing an activity that's specifically designed as a distraction and you were told this will calm you and get you out of your head?

[00:09:01]Well, notice that. But what if you tried to do an activity that more meaningfully represents what non- anxious you would be doing right now?

[00:09:09]>> If you get distracted doing it, okay, win in the end. But the distraction came without trying to distract.

[00:09:17]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think the another key word in this is urgency.

[00:09:22]>> Yeah.

[00:09:23]>> Are you doing this with urgency or are you doing this at the pace that non- anxious you would do it at? You know, if it feels urgent to grab your coloring book, then it'll be obvious probably a safety behavior. But if it's like, I've noticed I'm ruminating. I've noticed I'm seeking reassurance. I've noticed I can't stop scanning how I feel and my body and I'm in compulsion town.

[00:09:46]You know what? Maybe I should just focus on something that isn't all these compulsions at the moment or how I feel.

[00:09:51]And so I will get out my coloring book and I will be mindful. I'll allow the thoughts and things to chat away in the background, but I'm going to non-urgently practice with my attention somewhere else. I think that's okay. But the difference is is the urgency. It's the same with the PlayStation analogy as well. I'm not sprinting, plugging it in frantically trying to distract. I'm just like I I'm choosing just to focus on this now without the sense of urgency.

[00:10:17]>> Yeah. Somebody in the studio audience says, "I use paint by numbers as an attentional exercise," which it could be an intention that you're right.

[00:10:24]>> You know, it's an intentional exercise.

[00:10:25]Meditation, formal mindfulness practice, yoga, like all of those are ways that we can practice moving our attention to where we want it to be. I need to pay attention to this pose so I don't fall over and break my hip or whatever it's going to be, you know. So, uh >> I I a good attentional exercise is watching like mid quite boring TV shows, just keeping your attention on it.

[00:10:47]>> I I actually do that sometimes. I'm like it's mildly interesting documentary or something, but you're just like I sometimes just practice my attention on that because our brains are just conditioned to get the next dopamine hit or the next hit. Just like no, this is this is to practice. Anyway, what's Let's hear from our community. We got some good stuff, haven't we?

[00:11:05]>> We do. We have a good one. I think this might be our first one from this part of the world.

[00:11:11]>> Hi Josh and Drew. I'm K from India. I wanted to share my biggest win with you.

[00:11:15]I had promised myself that if I ever did this, I would send in my story to Disordered and here I am. I had a very traumatic experience on a flight in 2017 and I had not flown since then.

[00:11:26]Recently, I had to travel to a city 1300 km away from my hometown for a very important interview. I was already under a lot of stress because of grad school exams, and I didn't want to add to my stress chuck. So, I decided to to do the journey by train. This was my first time traveling out of my city in 9 years, and it was a 16-hour journey. When I reached there, I was informed of my ineligibility for the interview. I had worked towards this for a year and I was disappointed. But I decided that if not this interview, then I'm going to get something even bigger out of this trip.

[00:12:00]I decided to fly back to my city. The direct flight was 2.5 hours. So I broke it into a 40-minute flight to a nearby city and then a 1 and 1/2 hour flight to my home city. When I sat on the first flight, I was holding back tears because I couldn't believe that I'm finally doing this and this is not a dream. And the takeoff was scary. The flight experience was slightly unfamiliar because I hadn't flown in so long, but I did it. And the very next day, I took the second flight to my home city. And I was already less scared on the second flight. And I'm now planning to take my next holiday in a few months.

[00:12:38]There were so many times that I dreamed of successfully flying and woke up sad that it's a dream. But uh this time it is finally reality and I can't believe it. I am so proud of myself and thank thank you so much to both of you for disordered and specifically thank you Drew for the anxious truth as well. That is what helped me go from being housebound to doing my first few exposures. And I can't believe I've gone from being housebound to now finally being on a plane. And yeah, thank you so much guys.

[00:13:12]>> That's amazing. Wow. I got a big smile on my face.

[00:13:16]>> Right.

[00:13:16]>> That's so good.

[00:13:17]>> Can't help but be happy listening to that one. That was awesome.

[00:13:20]>> I love Oh, I'm I'm inel ineligible for the interview. I'll tell you what. Well, I'll get a win then.

[00:13:26]>> Yeah, >> I love the I've come all this way. I'm going to come out and get a win. Way better. Absolut love it. Love it. Love it. Well done. And I think that is our first did it anyway from India.

[00:13:36]>> I think so. Maybe we we've hit I think we pretty much circled the world at this point. any antarctic did it anyways please send them in or you know I don't know whatever >> if anyone listens in Lapland we uh we we need your did it anyways >> Greenland where oh by Lapland where I could be a member of the national soccer team we disco we discovered last year last week yeah if Lapland had a had a soccer team in the World Cup I could make that team because like 10 people >> Oh yeah yeah yeah oh yeah God I come out with some crap don't I really do >> uh it was really awesome so okay kind of dig it Uh, I had we have somebody in the studio audience. This is really I love this topic. Distraction. Is it a compulsion? Are you doing it wrong?

[00:14:15]Because these are things that weigh on people. We had somebody say, "When you use attention as a coping mechanism, you're going the wrong way."

[00:14:23]I don't know about that. I mean, yeah, I kind of get the statement like, "Oh, I'm I'm I'm moving my attention to calm down. You're right." But then if we're if we get too caught up in is this exactly right? Is this the right procedure? Are we doing it right? Is this working? Am I am I ruining it? Am I doing recovery right? We could get caught in a bind. Well, then what am I supposed to be thinking? What am I supposed to be saying? Where am I supposed to be? I get those questions all the time. Yes, I have to practice moving my attention even when it feels safer to put my attention inside of me and stare at how I feel. I got to move it somewhere else. Will I maybe calm down?

[00:15:03]>> You got to move it somewhere. You have to focus. You have to do it. That's exactly right. Hey, you got to focus on something. Um, we often say, well, don't hyperfocus on your feelings and and thoughts cuz that's why you're sat listening to this podcast.

[00:15:17]>> Yeah.

[00:15:17]>> So, why not try to focus on what non- anxious you might focus on even though your brain and body is screaming, "No, this is dangerous. This is uncomfortable. Fixate on me." No. And bear in mind when we're um when we're working like with rewiring the amygdala press oh where's the button amygdala >> there he is >> when we're looking at rewiring that your amydala is looking at where your focus is at you know that's part of a lot of exposure therapy like if you're going through if you're walking through the park cuz you have a fear of dogs and you walk through the entire park and you're just hyperfocused on the dog you're not really teaching the brain that it's safe. You're like, well, you only survived because you were focusing on the dog. But if you walked through the park and decided to turn your back on the dog for a bit and go play on the swings or get an ice cream and Yeah.

[00:16:12]Right. You don't feel comfortable. And sometimes you glance over at the dog to see, you know, if it's doing anything.

[00:16:18]That's way better because the brain and the amigdula is going, "Oh, actually, you're not even focusing on the threat, so it can't be that much of a threat."

[00:16:25]And it's the same with anxiety. If you're sat there and you're just focusing on how you feel, you're not really teaching the brain. If I'm stood there and I'm in heart palpitations, DPDR, thoughts about killing my family, doing all this stuff, and then I'm like, I'm going to focus on making a sandwich.

[00:16:42]What better way to teach the brain that all that isn't important? My sandwich is important, you know, and it's practice over time. But the difference is is when it becomes urgent and the intentions are not. So, am I misusing my focus to run away from a feeling? Oh crap, I need to make a sandwich cuz that worked last time, you know, I need to go and put my head in a bowl of ice water cuz Dr. Julie told me to. No, you don't have to run and do that. It's like what? This is why I always talk about what non- anxious you would do or what anxious you non- anxious you might do. And it will feel inongruous and silly and it will juxtapose with how you feel like why are you doing a sodoku when your whole mind's turned you're about to die like cuz I know I'm not and I'm just going to teach it something more chill. So yeah, you have to focus on something. You can't f >> Yeah.

[00:17:36]>> What are you going to focus on?

[00:17:38]>> I I think if we if we're not careful and we worry that that be oh that's a compulsion or that's a safety behavior or that's a coping mechanism or that's doing recovery wrong, you'll get paralyzed into like what should I look at? What's what's the right thing to look at right here?

[00:17:52]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when OCD kicks in like am I focusing on the right thing which is on those forums.

[00:17:58]>> What's the most common question we have Drew?

[00:18:00]>> But what do I do when I'm anxious?

[00:18:04]And a lot of that is with your focus and your attention.

[00:18:08]>> Yeah. And I think it's weird because that's when you run into problems where where you start to use things like acronyms and you know there's one really famous acronym and then even like Dave Carbell, doesn't he have alert or alarm or somebody does one of those.

[00:18:21]>> We have an acronym.

[00:18:22]>> Oh, we do the shock, attention, and resistance, you know. But we did that was one of our best episodes and we never used the damn acronym >> shock attention. Yeah, but it's not >> That's right. It's not That's exactly right. It's a descriptive acronym. But and I think part of the problem would be if if you feel that becoming distraction distracted would be compulsive or it's it's a safety behavior or an escape behavior and it's wrong. Then the opposite of that is the people who feel like they take sit with it literally.

[00:18:50]No, I can't be distracted. I have to sit with it. I have to sit and look at the feeling and do nothing but fully feel it and wait for it to No. Well, sometimes in the context that you're in that might be correct, but that's not the automatic always context. So, if you're making lunch or you're with your mom, be with your mom. If you're walking your dog, be with your dog. If you're playing in a softball game, play in the softball game. If you're sitting on your sofa, you might be in a context where I do just sit and allow the feelings to happen. It's very nuanced and I think that's why it's so important that we don't try to look for cookie cutter techniques and steps and this is exactly how you do it and applies to everybody cuz it can't like even Yeah. Even for one person it's going to change from hour to hour throughout the day.

[00:19:39]>> Yeah. And it's like one of the don't get pulled into the perfectionist OCD recovery OCD thing where like am I doing it? Is this distraction? Is this focus compulsive? Is it not? right?

[00:19:50]>> You know, it doesn't it just then look where your attention is. If you're focusing on those thoughts, then yeah, you probably ruminating.

[00:19:57]>> So, it's like it's okay to allow the chatter whilst focusing on stuff.

[00:20:02]>> Um, we had Russ Harris on. I got up in the wee hours of the morning. Remember we had Russ Harris all the way from Australia. He >> poor guy who was up for >> he was up late and I was up early. But that was a great episode because Russ talks about the act trilex and we're both ACT fans. in the act trilex do what matters is the last part of that sequence. So there it's really there's no specific distraction activities that you need to oh I got to go for that activity when I get anxious because that calms me down. Do what matters is in the moment you're in what more what most accurately represents the life that you actually want to live. Then try to do that.

[00:20:39]>> How's that? And then if you get distracted then you're good to go.

[00:20:43]>> And remember that this is in the context of anxiety disorders. So there are circumstances where you do sit with feeling. This is where it gets confusing. So in a lot of conventional therapy because life isn't all about anxiety disorders. We have many things that crop up in life and different emotions and different things. And as a therapist, you know, you got to spot these things. Sometimes when people say sit with the feeling, it's like don't push away the feeling as such. So maybe it's grief or anger or just utter sadness. And a good therapist will sit with you in that and be like, you know, that there's that feeling. So, let's just allow the feeling to be there.

[00:21:19]That's okay. That's what they mean by sit with the feeling. But in the in in the context of this fear of fear, misinterpretation of fear, fear of the threat response, compulsions, no, we don't sit with it anymore. It's we we've given it a lifetime of introspection and feeling and and and we've platformed it every day. It's had so much attention.

[00:21:44]That's when we don't sit with it. We just kind of take it with us and get on with our day.

[00:21:49]>> But don't apply it to everything.

[00:21:50]Sometimes if you're feeling sad or grief or whatever, then you do allow the that's when distraction is bad.

[00:21:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. you know, like like um like for example, if I'm grieving like on a particular anniversary and I'm and I try and push it away, you know, oh no, non- anxious me wouldn't be doing that. No, I'd be like, no, actually, I'd stop there and I'd have that feeling. I'd be like, God, that's sad. God, I'm going to feel that. That's healthy. It's not compulsive. That's a new feeling that's come up that isn't anxiety and fear of fear. It's just, oh yeah, completely okay. But when it comes to this anxiety has hijacked the wheel. It hijacks all the attention and therefore we use our focus in a in a more intentional way to allow other feelings to come up.

[00:22:37]>> Yeah. Which is like it's kind I'm going to be really corny here, but those other feelings are your birthright. They're part of it. Like that is part of your humanity. So like you got to feel those.

[00:22:47]We don't and we often have people say things like especially people who are along the path of desensitization or they're fully recovered whatever and they they're so happy that they were able to do this >> that they start to try to make everything into a willful tolerance intentional control floating and accepting problem. And I've had people literally ask me like, "Oh, it's my grandma's funeral. How do I float through that?" You don't. It's your grandma's funeral. You're not supposed to float past that those huge feelings.

[00:23:14]is like you have to know that you're going to be in those big feelings.

[00:23:18]>> Also, is your grandma's funeral at sea?

[00:23:22]Well, maybe she >> that's how my brain is. There's a funeral and everyone's just got individual kayaks and they're floating and bobbing along and just like and the priest is there really.

[00:23:32]>> Maybe she was a lifelong submariner, right? Who knows? My grandma was on a nuclear sub for 40 years. But, you know, like so it's really weird. I I I like a thing that you said, you know, talking about distraction because we have to be able to leverage it through attentional control. You've platformed your anxiety for years. That is 100% true. Like I this is >> I sound impressive.

[00:23:56]>> Well, you know, it's Yeah, it's the expensive microphone. That's all it is.

[00:23:59]You have platformed anxiety for years, says Josh. And that is a nugget that you could take right now. Wait a minute.

[00:24:04]Now, something else has to get a headline now and then, right? Like imagine waking up every morning and looking at the news and it's the same story which it kind of is at least in the US every day. So I don't even look at the times every day anymore. But like you would this is crazy something else must be going on in the news, right? So like don't let your anxiety and those of you in the studio audience be mindful of the language you are still using while you're trying to do willful tolerance and attention intentional control. I'm burning. It was on fire. It has cement boots. It's dragging me down. It's it's it's crushing me. It's horrible. It's awful. Like, okay, well, you just gave it a platform again. So, if you're going to try to move your attention, the way you do that has to be, yeah, I'm feeling really crappy right now, and I feel like I should save myself from this, but I'm going to put that story on the side at the moment and write a different story while I talk to my mom or walk my dog or play my video game.

[00:24:58]>> Oh. Oh, I love that.

[00:25:00]>> Yeah. Otherwise, if you want to keep using that platforming language, you're just going to keep writing the disaster story and thinking that you're intentionally controlling to something else. But are you?

[00:25:11]>> So, >> price submission there. Well done. I like that.

[00:25:15]>> Absolutely.

[00:25:15]>> Two guys complimenting each other.

[00:25:20]>> I love when I love when my friend tells me I'm saying really smart things. Wow, it makes me feel so good. Talk about a bubble.

[00:25:26]>> I only said it because I wish I'd said it. Here's a did it anyway. Let's take it away from uh silly back patting. Um here's a did it anyway from Sandra.

[00:25:37]>> Hi Drew and Josh. In 10 attempts I could not squeeze myself in two minute audio.

[00:25:42]So here is a written did it anyway.

[00:25:45]>> My name is Sandra and I am a Latian living in the UK. First of all I want to say a huge thank you for all your work and humorous approach to anxiety. on the bad days turn to put disordered on and it really makes me smile and move instead of staring at my sensitized brain and being sad about the state I'm in. Good. I'm glad that we could unleash your attention a bit more. The last 6 months have been a wild journey, but they have certainly showed me that we are way more capable than we think we are. I got reensitized at the end of last year. Decided that the best thing I can do is to not stop taking brave steps towards life. I switched agrophobic loneliness to a sense of belonging and community and joined a local choir in January. So now having rehearsals, traveling to gigs, singing in front of the public, technically no escape nightmare for an anxious mind.

[00:26:40]Unexpectedly, I lost my dad in February.

[00:26:43]Losing a parent has been one the worst fear of mine since I was five. The fear of not coping with the pain to lose control of my mind and body. But in reality, when it happens, there is no space left for anxiety. And as painful as it is, you just go through it one step in front of the other. Some moments, tears falling like rain. Some feel like you're an empty shell. And some are filled with small joys of living. And yesterday, I got my first job in 7 years whilst living in the UK.

[00:27:12]I am scared to fail, to not be good enough, to not be able to deal with anxiety. But I know there is no way to prove the opposite to myself if I do not try. And thanks to to you and my long years with Gad, I do I do know my overprotective friend all too well. Now, if you're having a hard day today, do not give up. Take the bus, go to the grocery store, or get out of the or get off the sofa. And do not be afraid to feel. Every step matters, and it can get better. We can do it. Drew and Josh, I hope you know much of a difference you make in the anxious world.

[00:27:51]>> Oh man.

[00:27:55]>> Well, thank you, Sandrew. Those are such kind words, but like I can't even begin to tell you how many great things are in that one.

[00:28:00]>> I'm just I'm not even going to I'm just going to let that there. If you want to go back and listen to that again, >> that was that was really good.

[00:28:06]>> I I couldn't even couldn't even add to that. It's beautiful. Well done. Well done, Sandra. And well done on getting your job as well. That's I mean, well done for all of it. Just >> 100%. I I'm going to point out one thing because I think it's like one of the most important things Sandra maybe said.

[00:28:18]I cannot prove myself. I cannot prove the opposite unless I do the thing. Oh my goodness. Like you learning that lesson and doing it. You get huge credit for that. You can you will not convince yourself through words, thoughts, memes, lyrics, poems, social media post that you can handle this until you go and do it.

[00:28:39]>> Yeah. And if you want to be like Sandra and share your did it anyways and words of wisdom, you can do that at disorder.fm where you can submit voice notes and emails and stuff.

[00:28:51]>> Uh and if you want to be part of the studio audience, you can uh always join the Disorder community app.

[00:28:57]>> Yeah, >> like the people are here today. Hey everyone.

[00:29:00]>> Yeah, absolutely. We have a a studio audience watching us record. How about we do another audio did it anyway real quick for those of you I want to segue with a hair joke because we're always picking on each other's hair.

[00:29:10]>> This is for all of us and I was one of them. You would think I'm still one of them if you look at my hair now who is afraid to go sit and get a haircut.

[00:29:20]>> Hi guys. Just wanted to send in my did it slashdoing it anyway. Um my name's Laura. You can use my name. So we go to Bali for a week tomorrow with the family which is amazing. I've had to get a few important things done first. So, first of all, um I suffer with or have suffered with agrophobia, panic disorder, and the like for quite a while. Um and this morning I had to get my toes and nails painted and shellacted and everything, which took a good hour.

[00:29:49]So, I was feeling quite anxious. I struggled to sit still and obviously that feeling of being trapped. Um and I felt all the feels and I just sat my way through it. And now I've got the lovely nails to to look at. But then I had to go for my lash and brow appointment as well. And I had to lay there with my eyes closed again for around an hour, an hour and a half and started to feel the waves of panic. I've also had two coffees today, which I wouldn't normally do. So I'm really putting myself through the ringer and I did it anyway. Um, and as I sat up front bed getting my lashes and brows done, I'm quite sort of sematic with my anxiety and feelings in my body as most of us are. I felt quite dizzy because I've been laying down for a while and the room was wobbling. But again, I just have Laura. It's fine.

[00:30:38]You're just a little bit dizzy. You've been lying down. Just let it pass. And it did. So yeah, just wanted to share my multiple did it. Anyways, thanks for everything you guys do. Love the podcast. Cheers.

[00:30:54]That was awesome. Well done. Uh, brilliant. Also, you're going to look great. It sounds like when you hit barley, you look like look a million bucks. Uh, well done. And I know what that's like. You have to be still.

[00:31:08]There's someone watching you, the pressure of all those things.

[00:31:11]>> Um, have you ever had to get anything shellacked, Drew?

[00:31:17]I've never had anything shellaced, but I don't know. Maybe we're missing something. Have you?

[00:31:22]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:24]>> Here with my >> That's so good. But all those different things are required to be still. Well done. I hope you really enjoy your holiday to Bali. It'll be It'll be cracking.

[00:31:32]>> Absolutely. We have a studio audience member chiming in here with my long dense hair in 32 degrees centigrade heat. My goal for the summer is to get a haircut. Yeah, I get it, man. It's a really common thing in our community, isn't it? I'm doing a re I actually got my haircut the other day and I'm doing a real today where I filmed about haircut anxiety.

[00:31:50]>> It was a thing, man. Driving there.

[00:31:52]>> All the thoughts around it like what if I go crazy? What if I run out with half the haircut?

[00:31:58]>> Here's where I have to acknowledge that like I feel like our haircuts are probably much faster than most female haircuts. I don't know what it is, but women are in. What the hell, man? I'm like 15 minutes and I was too scared to do that. Like y'all are hanging out there for 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours.

[00:32:12]What the hell? There's foil involved.

[00:32:14]There's all kinds of stuff happening.

[00:32:16]>> Oh, more than that sometimes. Four or five hours.

[00:32:19]>> Yeah, it's crazy, man. So, >> yeah. Yeah. I'm like, fair enough. Fair.

[00:32:23]>> Absolutely.

[00:32:23]>> Um, it's really cool. Attention though, you can practice with your attention even there.

[00:32:28]>> That's right.

[00:32:28]>> Sometimes my And we've not even covered this yet, so it's very important. Your attention can flip between your thoughts. Remember Drew's cab company?

[00:32:38]Sometimes when you haven't got anything to put your attention on when you're in a situation like getting your nails done or don't know beautifying yourself um it's hard to put your attention on stuff. So a really good practice is just let fun imagination thoughts come in.

[00:32:54]You're human.

[00:32:55]>> The most beautiful part of the of being human is our imaginations. So sometimes if I'm there and I can't escape and I can't focus, I'll just be like, "Well, just imagine what it would be like to I don't know go on holiday." Uh, imagine if I was a mafia boss. Imagine all these things. What would I do? Uh, and I just allow my brain to go off. You know, what am I going to do with my business? Well, I wonder how my cousin is doing. Um, and just allowing the thoughts to come in.

[00:33:22]Allow visualization to come in if you need to. Anything, you know, the attention isn't just things external, is it? It can also just be things in your mind.

[00:33:31]>> Yeah, it's a good point. I never really thought about that. It's a pretty solid thing.

[00:33:34]>> It's It's massive. I do that when I go to bed as well. So like if you have sleep anxiety, >> some people their attention, it's hard to put your attention on stuff. They're just obsessed with am I falling asleep yet? Is it bad? Ruminating, whatever. So I often use my imagination to fall asleep. I'll just imagine. I have this thing where I imagine everyone's chasing me and then I have a little underground den in the countryside and then I run inside it. And then inside my den, it's got a hidden entrance and in there it's got like everything you need. like it's like a bunker. Like it's got cool like bed and games, consoles, and food and TV. And then I've got little cameras to spot if anyone's going to come find me.

[00:34:14]Uh and I'll think like that and fall asleep. You know, that's how you do it.

[00:34:18]>> That had much more detail than I thought it would. I'm impressed.

[00:34:21]>> Honestly, I love using my imagination to fall asleep. It's really lovely. If I was to design a car or if I was floating around in space, uh rather than what if what if I offended that person? What if I have a panic attack? What if I never recover? You know that that's really that you ain't going to go to sleep with that.

[00:34:38]>> That's a good point. You know what's cool about that? You know, it's very childlike, which is but that's a good thing. Remember when you were we were kids? I always sometimes I go back to when I was a kid and like you couldn't do outdoor recess. Maybe it was raining or it was in the winter it was snowy and you're a little kid in elementary school. So in recess after lunch would be indoors in the classroom and me and my friends sometimes would sit and we would just draw. We would draw the cra like like we would design cars. That was like a seven-year-old boy designing a car. It would have everything in it that you can imagine like the craziest. But that was just I can sit with imaginary fanciful. These are meaningless. There's no purpose. I'm not accomplishing anything.

[00:35:18]>> That is a cool thing for an adult to do also even though it would feel like >> and you know what I think happens if you're sitting that came out because of the haircut thing. you're sitting in the chair often so you can play with your own imagination as a form of attention control and and you know I like that there's also small talk I mean I think getting your haircut that is the small talk capital of the world >> and you can engage even if it feels silly because remember the narrative is always going to be how can I how can I talk to this person about last night's you know baseball game while I am drowning in these feelings or I'm about to go crazy now that's exactly the time to talk about something as ridiculous as a baseball game. Yeah. So, those are good ways to do that, too. You just don't like talk talk to me about the Nick game. Talk to me what happened last night with the Knicks. So that you can calm down like start the conversation.

[00:36:09]Try it.

[00:36:10]>> Yeah. Curiosity. Curiosity is always your friend. Whether it's curiosity and your imagination.

[00:36:16]>> Yeah, we did an episode on that too.

[00:36:17]Remember it was anxiety and the death of curiosity. That's another good episode.

[00:36:20]We got to send people to old name.

[00:36:22]>> Yeah, that was a good one for sure. Um, >> would you like a did it anyway from the community?

[00:36:27]>> I absolutely would. Love them all.

[00:36:29]>> So, in the disordered community app, we have a did it anyway thread that people can, you know, upload pictures and share their wins. Uh, this one was from yesterday. I enjoyed this one. Only short one. Doing it anyway. I had a big whoosh today. I kept scanning and looking at it, making it way worse than wanting to fight or flight. I literally wanted to jump out of my skin when I feel like this. I am certain the feeling will kill me or make me go crazy.

[00:36:58]Popping a headphone in and ordering groceries. Going to the store and trying not to focus on how I feel. Just going to bring it with me.

[00:37:07]>> I love that one.

[00:37:08]>> That's so good.

[00:37:09]>> And in the in the community app, you can just give it a little like and stuff and just like, yeah, >> I like that. Well done.

[00:37:14]>> And on the podcast, >> I'm so convinced I'm going to die. Nah, >> I'll go get some grow.

[00:37:19]>> Oh, you know what?

[00:37:20]>> Great attention shift as well. Great attention shift.

[00:37:22]>> Absolutely. And I I love it when people be like, "Well, I guess I'll die in the frozen foods aisle." Oh, it feels like I'm going to die.

[00:37:27]>> IT DOESN'T MATTER.

[00:37:28]>> GOT TO GET HIM IN THERE SOON. We can quote your cousin. We can quote The Rock. That's a damn sure.

[00:37:36]>> We've not had the We've not had the eagle for a while. I need to bring him back.

[00:37:39]>> I know. Actually, it was so funny.

[00:37:40]Somebody mentioned over the weekend red tail hawk. They had the sound and said it was a a bird watching a friend of mine. Red tail hawk. And I'm like, I know that's a red tail hawk. Let me tell you why.

[00:37:53]It was a good story. Oh my goodness. So yeah, can distraction be a compulsion?

[00:37:57]It definitely can. Like just but you don't always know exactly.

[00:38:04]>> Yes.

[00:38:04]>> It can be great or it could be compulsion.

[00:38:06]>> That's exactly right. So like all I can say is general rules of thumb which will break down minuteby minute because of individual circumstances and individual context would be urgency is a good one.

[00:38:16]Do I have to get away with as quickly as possible? Are you going in with the intent to calm down by trying to ignore or run from the feeling or like drown it out? Or are you willing to be brave and take a risk of engaging in something else while your brain is telling you there is a big giant like horrible thing about to happen to you.

[00:38:39]>> Yeah. All good.

[00:38:41]>> And go get it wrong. Get it wrong a few times and you can learn from that.

[00:38:44]There's nothing wrong with that.

[00:38:46]>> Yeah. And then leave it. Don't then analyze it endlessly afterwards. Did I do that right? Was that correct? Going on the same OCD Reddit forum and trying just just leave it. Curiosity, trial and error. Have a go.

[00:38:58]>> Yeah, why not? That >> kind of stuff.

[00:38:59]>> What else we got to add? Anything else?

[00:39:01]Are we all good?

[00:39:02]>> No, I think that's okay.

[00:39:03]>> 40 minutes in. Absolutely. Go distract without compulsing over it. I don't know. Hopefully we answered the question. Sometimes I'm not even sure that we did, but that's all right.

[00:39:11]>> Yeah. Cool. Thank you, my friend, and I will catch you next time. Thank you for tuning in. We're here every Friday. Most Fridays.

[00:39:18]>> Yeah.

[00:39:19]>> And um yeah, thank you to the studio audience. Thank you for anyone who listens, puts us in the headphones or we're entertaining you somewhere. And uh yeah, thanks for trusting in us and what we do. And we'll catch you soon.

[00:39:31]>> Yeah, I appreciate it. Hey, thanks for all the reviews, by the way. We're getting a lot of really nice reviews on Spotify and Apple. So, we appreciate you guys. And we'll be back next week. We're out.