Phoenicians carthage And black history

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[00:00:00]The Phoenicians had also moved. Princess Elisar had traveled with 300 Phoenicians down into North Africa. And they began intermaring among black Africans in North Africa just on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean from about 1,000 BC right down until Cartage was built on the basis of that civilization. Recently, studies in Cartage, archaeological studies in Cartage saw that Carthaginian civilization which included Hannibal and all those fantastic navies that they were largely African. Now they studied the skeletons. They have found it's a largely African civilization.

[00:00:36]>> Egyptian influence in Phoenicia.

[00:00:40]Now this is around the first millennium BC. Okay.

[00:00:49]So 1,00 BC in Phoenicia. These artifacts are from the Lou Museum, Paris, France.

[00:00:56]I'm showing you this one also.

[00:01:00]this one also and the UAT eye.

[00:01:06]There it is. So I will show you the there's no reference because there's sets of artifact and there's different style there also there's also some Greek style. This one looks like best.

[00:01:19]So, um, around the first millennium BC, we have, uh, I want to show you what it tells you about the Egyptian influence.

[00:01:31]Hold on. Oh, there it is. So, you have some, um, statues of Egyptians deities in um, in bronze and um, you also have some Greek style. So it is kind of a there's there's some diversity right here. But um when we see this artifact there's no denying with the beard with the shape the position this one also that this is some Egyptian influence I've already showed you best and the eye there is no denying at all. So 1,00 BC in Phoenicia and if there was a reference I would have showed you but there isn't any.

[00:02:17]First of all, Tunisia is located in North Africa or the MREB region which includes all the nations of Africa that straddle the Mediterranean. In fact, Tunisia is the northernmost point of the entire African continent. Cape Angela or Raspensa, which is this entire jagged cliffy area right here. Well, Tunisia was essentially the hub of one of the oldest renowned thalloscracies in the world, the Carthaginian Empire.

[00:02:38]>> It was a North African empire ruled by Punic people. But what are Punic people?

[00:02:43]>> They were Semitic of Phoenician origin, meaning that they came from the Levant and they colonized the coast of North Africa. So does that mean Tunisian people are Phoenicians?

[00:02:51]>> Eh, not quite because later Carthage fell to them.

[00:02:54]>> Then are they Latin?

[00:02:56]>> Not quite because then everything fell to Vandals, Ottomans, Arabs, and the French. So what are they?

[00:03:03]>> We'll explain later in the episode, but long story short, it's like Arab but eh Arab earlier wasn't here for all we have so much tied just to the Mediterranean world. How about the African world? Are there connections that whether it's trade routes or or is there real connection through archaeology and history going south here? Is that something that or is it just all desert?

[00:03:26]We sort of dump [laughter] >> you David or or or Tom or >> Yeah. Well, again, I think that, you know, there's a huge amount of work to be done, but I think we've now worked out how to ways of going about that which get around the problems of most of the objects that moved between the Mediterranean and the subs and in the reverse direction are not visible archeologically or not are not quantifiable archeologically when they're occasionally visible.

[00:04:00]If I want to ask you actually about uh the last glacial optimum in Sahara, there's this sort of an idea that I've come across that there must have been a great deal in the Sahara of the prehistoric remains which then because of the intense desiccation have been lost.

[00:04:15]Uh it's kind of all there if if you go and look to it. I mean the uh the the um the sort of the pastoral lakeside encampments are extraordinarily well preserved. If >> the story of Carthage and Tunisia is a very interesting one, of course, because of the connections with the black Africans and the Mediterranean and Israel and the Levant and that general region in general.

[00:04:49]Now it's a very complicated history and it has a lot of empires, kingdoms, peoples, but to this day a lot of people obviously are obsessed with its racial purity in a sense mainly because Tunisia today is mainly Arab and it is a replacement problem in Tunisia. one that is accepted generally by modern scholars that the Burba population that a lot of people consider native to that region is blocked out. So in other words, it's a very small percentage compared to the Arabs which of course was already small libera population because they had already been other different type of people moving in going back around 1,500 BC.

[00:05:47]The most important question is not whether or not there were black people in Tunisia or Carthage or any of that.

[00:05:53]The question is how big was the population of black people? Of course, some people believe it was very huge.

[00:06:01]Some people believe it was small. If we look at Plenny the Elder when he talks about Carthage, he first mentions uh Hunter the navigator, which of course everybody does at that time because he's one of the most um exploring guys ever.

[00:06:16]And of course, as we know, if we go past Morocco, we will end up in West Africa.

[00:06:22]But the reason why this is important is because he mentions Ethiopians in Morocco by the Atlas Mountains. This is an undeniable fact.

[00:06:32]But if you move just east from Morocco, you get to Tunisia, a high point.

[00:06:40]One of the problems with this conversation is that a lot of the times they just start at any place. So, the Carthaginians are seen as an isolated people who just start out of nowhere, which of course this makes no sense because they're tied to the Phoenetians and the Phoenicians are tied to the Egyptians. The Egyptians are tied to the af Africa in general. So, Eastern Africa, Libya, Sudan, those places especially um Ty which tire is the first place that actually went to Tunisia and set up Carthage and stuff like that. Outposts.

[00:07:27]I mean, you call it Carthage if you want. That's another problem, of course, which is names. But let's not move on because I do this thing where I move too fast.

[00:07:37]So it's important to understand here that the three that are considered the most important are Ty, Sidon and Babalos and of course sometimes Beirut.

[00:07:54]These places here belong to the Phoenetians. And as you can see, um, Israel at the bottom, Jaffa, Jerusalem, all of these places.

[00:08:06]The Phoenicians, of course, we know were like expert travelers. They moved back and forth in the oceans in the same way that the West Africans did in West Africa, which might have been one of the reasons why they migrated further south.

[00:08:24]But in talking about the people of Ty and how they themselves did not view themselves as so different from all the other people in the Mediterranean. And of course we know that in the Mediterranean, the Middle Earth, these people were moving around in general.

[00:08:43]There are some places which were more stable at the time. So let's again take 800 BC to around the time of Tahara. And from there we'll get people like Bal, we'll get people like uh Tahara, we'll have people like the Carthaginians. We'll have people like the Assyrians. Let's first start with the Assyrians very quickly.

[00:09:13]This is an image of Asher Hardan, an Assyrian who moved in from the Mesopotamian areas to conquer both Egypt and the Phoenician areas, especially Tyer. In this image, you can see the king of Ty standing or kneeling behind the prince of Kush and Egypt.

[00:09:36]This is an important thing because it is documented that these two were at least in these two states Egypt and Ty were in cahoots. They were working together.

[00:09:52]As Esher Hardan writes himself, "In the course of my campaign, I set up fortifications against Bal, the king of Ty, who trusted in his friend to Harker, the king of Kush.

[00:10:06]I threw off the yoke of the god Usher, my lord, and kept answering me with insulence. I caught off the supply of food and water that sustained their lives."

[00:10:19]It's also important to mention that the king of Ethiopia and the king of Egypt at this time was migrating a lot of his people who come from Kush into places like the Mediterranean, like Sumeriia, like Libya and places like that. And this is a new people. These are different than those who would already have been in Tunisia.

[00:10:50]When people bring up coins from this part, this is the one that comes up first, which is of the Hannibal supposedly. That's what most people say.

[00:11:00]And also, it's possible that is another important figure, but we'll stick with Hannibal for now.

[00:11:10]Of course, when something like this comes out, there are 100 excuses. What it does prove though, above everything else, is that you can't ignore the fact that there were black people in Carthage. You can't ignore that they played a role big enough to be minted on coins. And you also can't ignore the fact that these people for the most part were native to that region with only a few black people being foreign, namely Egyptians.

[00:11:43]Now, if you look at this image here, you can see at the top it's written Carthage. In the middle there's a blue that is a lake Chel Jared. And the whole region here is tied to a series of river beds of rivers that used to exist there in the wet period which show that in prehistoric times subsaharan Africans if you want to call them that black Africans used to migrate to the north and people from the north used to migrate to the south and this had been going on for tens of thousands of years, of course, until things started to dry up. When it did dry up, we start to see that Tunisia and Algeria become a deserty area, but they become also a sort of barrier. And so the black people found in North Africa at this time which are documented by several people of course Heroditus being one of them. The people who documented this are documenting Ethiopians that were isolated from the Ethiopians to the south. Cuz the only journey at this time that was easy from north to south was from let's start at Carthage. You start at Carthage, you move to Morocco and from Morocco the Atlas Mountains. You go around and then you go to West Africa from there. Uh again this is documented by Heroditus in his book. We don't have to read it. We read it a hundred times.

[00:13:30]There is no reason to assume that the people of Carthage really got an extra push of people from West Africa or Central Africa during this period. But instead, as mentioned in the first video, they met these people already there.

[00:13:56]The Phoenicians had also moved. Princess Elisar had traveled with 300 Phoenicians down into North Africa and they began intermaring among black Africans in North Africa just on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean from about 1,000 BC right down until Cartage was built on the basis of that civilization. Recently studies in cartage archaeological studies in cartage show that cartagenian civilization which included Hannibal and all those fantastic navies that they were largely African now they studied the skeletons they have found it's a largely African civilization >> what is left out are the non-African looking people of course who this one is Alexander the great so he doesn't even matter that much but there are definitely people who don't look African who are depicted.

[00:14:47]But this does not erase the African population. In fact, it raises them up as a people who lived in that area. Now obviously genetic studies and stuff like that have shown varying things which we will talk about in another video but what's much more interesting is that the history of Carthage usually starts off with nothing. So in other words it starts off with let's just start with Carthage or let's start with the Phoenetians or let's just start nowhere. But in order to understand the civilization, you have to first start with the base. Who were there in that? Who was there in that region? Who have been depicted in that region? Who did the people say was there?

[00:15:43]The only way to answer this is to go a little bit further than the prehistoric age. And if we do, we find of course the Carthaginians who set up a area in Carthage, Tunisia today. And these people, although they set up a important place at first, was very small. And again, like I said, it was an outpost of Phoenicia. Phoenicia being obsessed with Egypt. Egypt being obsessed now with Carthage.

[00:16:17]When was Carthage set up?

[00:16:20]800 BC.

[00:16:24]800 BC. who was in charge of Egypt.

[00:16:28]Of course, it was the many kings of Kush.

[00:16:34]One of the reasons why Carthage's history with Egypt is understood with this Mediterranean spin is because it's never mentioned until you start with the TMIC people. Once you get into the TMIC era, then we start talking about Carthage and Hannibal and the other others from that period. But there's a 400year period before that which is completely ignored and that entire history is Kushite Egyptian and Libyan in its transformation.

[00:17:14]For example, in this image right here, now granted this is a later depiction by the ancient Romans themselves around the 1st century AD. And in it, it depicts Daido in the middle or Alice as mentioned previously in the video, who is a Phoenician who starts the Carthaginian uh kingdom.

[00:17:43]Next to her is an Ethiopian holding a piece of ivory.

[00:17:50]Don't be thrown off here by the word Ethiopian. It just means a black person who is native to Africa at this time. And then next to them or opposite on the image on the right side is Africa the goddess.

[00:18:10]As we have already discussed in my previous video, the depictions from ancient times, they usually put Europeans where they have no understanding of who these people look like or what to put. The default of Europeans is to make people European.

[00:18:34]When noting this coin, we can see here again that Africans are tied to ivory.

[00:18:41]This is a very important thing because usually people say, "Hey, this elephant here is definitely an Indian elephant."

[00:18:49]And the reason why we know it's Indian is because its ears are small.

[00:18:54]That's that could be the case, right?

[00:18:57]The only problem is we are making the assumption that they cared about the size of the ears of elephants back then. We are already seeing that there's a tie between ivory and black people which they are making in the time probably saying native the the things that are native to this land. And why would they use an Indian elephant?

[00:19:25]because Indian elephants were being exported to those regions as well. And the person who minted or made these coins could have just used an Indian elephant as a example knowing that the Africans were um filled with elephants.

[00:19:45]So it made no distinction as we would today, which is something that I've noticed a lot of people do.

[00:19:53]They don't make a separation between what we know today and what people knew back then. For the little writers who knew the difference between the size of ears of African elephants in the past and today, it would have been little known to someone who was making coins.

[00:20:14]So, let's go back to this image here.

[00:20:17]Some people, especially Wikipedia, they say that the reason why Africa, the goddess, is depicted with pale skin is because they are assuming that she is Berber.

[00:20:33]This may be the case, but it seems more likely that they just did what they did with many other goddesses, which was make them their own. In the same way that Isis looks nothing like like the ancient Egyptian Isis and many of the other gods that came from Egypt look nothing like the originals.

[00:20:56]Meanwhile, to depict proper Africa, you have an Ethiopian woman with with her hair still representing the Greeks. As you can tell, they just made her darker.

[00:21:11]But the slight giveaway of her holding ivory makes it easy for us to tell what's going on here.

[00:21:20]So again, in order to avoid isolation, we have to read Herodities in what he says here. But I have still this much to say about this country speaking about Africa. The four distinct races inhabited and no more. As far as we know, two of these races are indigenous and two not. The Libyans and the Ethiopians are indigenous.

[00:21:48]The one inhabiting the northern, the other inhabiting the southern parts of Libya. But the Phoenetians and Greeks are foreigners.

[00:22:00]No part of Libya appears to me so good in fertility as to be compared with Asia or Europe, except only the distinct the district of Cinnipus.

[00:22:16]For the land bears the same name as the river and is equal to the best land in the production of corn.

[00:22:26]The interest of the people of Libya and the people uh who are Ethiopians is very interesting indeed because these are the people who basically ruled Egypt from around 900 BC till the end of Tahara's reign which some parts were still being ruled by Ethiopians even though they had been kicked doubt.

[00:22:58]Many of the assumptions of nativeness and non-nativeness at this time comes from the assumption that Libyans and Nubians would have not been considered native to Egypt by these people. Now, you notice that Heroditus says Libya, the continent or Libya, the area, only has two natives, Libyans and Ethiopians.

[00:23:26]This could mean one of two things.

[00:23:30]One, he's mentioning the entire continent, to which we should assume then that he is saying that the Egyptians fall under the Libyans or the Ethiopians.

[00:23:41]But when we say entire continent for Heroditus, we are not talking about the entire continent as we see it today.

[00:23:51]Although there are assumptions even made by Heroditus that Africa is a much bigger place talking about how they sailed around Africa and they mentioned that it's one of the biggest continents.

[00:24:05]This assumption is ignored completely when talking about Libya because firstly he doesn't even believe that event happened but he documented it which again that's props to him but he also tells us a story about how the Carthaginians went past the straits of Gibrala so those two nearly touching areas and there from past that area they traded with a tribe of Ethiopians. So somewhere past in the Atlas Mountains, they traded with the Ethiopians not too far south.

[00:24:48]In other words, he is depicting people who live mainly in Libya.

[00:24:55]If we take two people who existed at pretty much the same time, we take Daido and then we take Shaw Shank the third.

[00:25:05]Although this is an image of Shashank II, but I can't think of another evocative image. But if we look here, we can see that they're existing at the same time, trading at the same time.

[00:25:18]things coming from quote unquote Ethiopia are migrating into the tips of Libya.

[00:25:29]This is something that is believed throughout the centuries even until the painting of this image.

[00:25:38]The monarchs that would rule are very important. The first that we should look at are Didonians. And the reason is because during the reign of Daido we can see that the Libyans were in charge but there is an immed intermediate person whose name is unknown who is in charge when the Nubians take over not very far distance from the date.

[00:26:06]The Libyans as you can see their reigns are very short-lived as you can see here 945 to 712 BC 945 924 BC Shaw Shank rules from 890 BC tealot um from 889 to 874 these people are not ruling for a very long time meanwhile the Nubians come in and as you can see this entire date the connection made with Libyans, the connection made with the Didonians, the connection made with the city of Palmo, the connection made up until you get to around Hano the first. It's all Nubian.

[00:27:02]And again, this is highlighted by the fact that Tarharka has a union with the Phoenicians. Tahara and the Phoenicians work together to try and get rid of the Assyrians.

[00:27:18]Even speaking of deals of separating the kingdom uh amongst each other, of course, Egypt is sacked, so that doesn't help.

[00:27:28]The Saita dynasty comes right after the Nubians. Um at this time part of upper Egypt was still ruled by Nubians.

[00:27:38]Although the push was happening fast, by the time of Neco the first, it was kind of over for the Nubians, but or the Kushites, but this dynasty that ruled again possibly with some Nubians in there is considered the last native dynasty.

[00:28:00]By this time you have Margo I who rules and his rule doesn't really start until summer I for continuation sake it's important to understand that the moment that we're talking about when Heroditus is writing is during the time of Artis Xerxes.

[00:28:25]So this is how many rulers, foreign rulers are ruling Egypt at this time and many other places until Heroditus comes in and starts writing what he wrote about who's native and who's not native.

[00:28:42]So, of course, it's not fair to look at this entire place without looking at the genetic study, recent genetic study that's been done that says that the Phoenetians are traceable to Sicilians and North Africans in general. But of course, the breakdown is more important. Most people read this part and then move on and do a victory lap thinking that okay so the phoenetians were from Sicily and we can move on. The problem of course is that when this genetic study is done, it's done in places where they assume Phoenicians took over, right? And they did, but they don't make any considerations that Phoenicians utilized local populations inside of what they would call Phoenicians, which is why in some places you find these Sicilians all over. Now, I'm not saying that the test is untrue or whatever. I'm just saying the way that some people are interpreting it is one-sided.

[00:29:53]Now, something that's interesting is that in the Levant, you don't see that much Levantine.

[00:30:02]So, in that general Beirut area, the one area that we were talking about where the Phoenicians come from, you still see Sicilian DNA.

[00:30:11]So, let's read it. It says there's ample evidence that these people practiced Levventine customs, built Levventine style structures, and spoke the Levventine derived Punic language, von Domalin said. Yet, according to the DNA analysis, almost none of them had any trace of Levventine ancestry.

[00:30:30]Instead, the study found their genetic profiles looked most like those of prehistoric inhabitants of Sicily and the Aen gian. Some of them also showed varying degrees of North African ancestry, especially those who died after 400 BC, reflecting a growing influence of Carthage in the Mediterranean.

[00:30:57]Now, this part to me is very interesting because why is African DNA, North African DNA showing up more than Levventine DNA?

[00:31:08]And again, I'll say it, the truth fears, no question, which is why I don't punk out when it comes to reading these studies, as a lot of people do. Their heart gets sore. But let's read exactly what it says of the North African DNA which they found which by the way they didn't find it just in North Africa. So it migrated from North Africa and went in other places as of course it you expected to since it's Phoenician. It says first we observe a substantially higher Y hapler group diversity per per archaeological site compared to earlier people in each sample Punic site. Most males have differing Y haplo groups. Overall no single lineage dominates the sample across sites including mostly commonly most commonly E1B.

[00:32:06]Now, I'd hope I don't have to convince a lot of you of something that we've talked about a lot of time, but the E1B1 uh capital group is something that spreads from the Horn of Africa where it's patriarchally or paternally there first.

[00:32:30]And this is where E1 B1B is said to have spread. And you have E1B1A which is more associated with uh western Africa going down. And then you have uh E1 B1B E1B E1 B1 B1 BA whatever we could keep going as much as we can with this.

[00:32:57]This E1B is from again 20,000 to 40,000 years ago, which puts it outside of the out of Africa migration. This is something that already originated from within Africa. When you hear people say um North Africans take Africans with them, uh this is usually the one they're talking about. But this is a small uh introduction compared to the E1 B1A. If you see E1 B1A in North Africans, that means those people have a lot of black African DNA in them.

[00:33:34]I was [clears throat] looking for updates on this because of course it's possible that the E1 B1 um HOA group uh and its subclades could have been uh started from outside of Africa. But all genetic evidence shows that this is not possible.

[00:33:55]What [snorts] this means is we cannot rule out the black African native black Africans who are living in those top regions, especially since we have genetic evidence that shows that goes further back than this date. And it cannot be I I can't stress enough the type of people we can rule out by the way uh Sudan Sudanic people in these people who have been calculated so far.

[00:34:21]It's not everybody. It's a widespread thing. So it's not concentrated in North Africa there. It's Europe, uh, the Levant, [snorts] North Africa. And again, you know, there's something kind of hilarious a bit about about this cuz let me let me just throw a hilarious point to this.

[00:34:42]Um, so the DNA that was found in 2017 for ancient Egyptians showed a high level of Levventine DNA, right? This one has less Levventine DNA than it does subsaharan African, if you want to use that word. So this one has more subsaharan African DNA than Levventine.

[00:35:05]And the previous one had more Levventine DNA than it did uh subsarian African.

[00:35:13]I'm just using that word because I call them black African DNA.

[00:35:17]Now the question of course that should be asked is how did they filter out the people who they genetically tested and the people who they didn't? Luckily they wrote it down.

[00:35:29]So, as it says here, we filtered two individuals with higher [snorts] quality data and no evidence of substantial contamination and with verified archaeological context, obtaining a set of 157 individuals for population genetic analysis. Within this data set, we identified 131 individuals with Phoenician or Punic context, out of which 108 had a firm archaeological context, indicating that they can confidently be classified as Phoenician or Punic. We added previously published sequences for eight individuals from two Punic sites in Sardinia and one from Ebiza.

[00:36:17]A recent study reported whole genome shotgun sequence data for 12 individuals from the North Africa site of Koen.

[00:36:30]We used in solution enrichment in solution enrichment convert samples with low proportion of indigenous DNA to analyze data from other relevant times and regions as well as 26 newly sequenced individuals from relevant contexts which are not Phoenician or Punic. Among these are early Iron Age individuals from the inland norththeast Algeria sites in Canela which we use in our model of North African ancestry and 20 individuals from originally Punic sites in Sicily, Sardinia and Iberia whose radioarbon dates placed them within the period of Roman hedgemony.

[00:37:22]So of course the question is these people who are filtered out what is their DNA? It would be very interesting if they provided that information.

[00:37:32]Luckily they give us a hint of where to find it. They tell us about the region cana which is a region next to Morocco the Atlas Mountains. And we remember that Hana the Navigator told us that Ethiopians are to be found in the Atlas Mountains spreading the whole Atlas Mountains. So starting from the north of uh Africa. So we start if you see that line there that border going all the way down to the bottom.

[00:38:04]It would be very interesting if these people who spread the entirety of North Africa would have large amounts of quote unquote subsaharan African DNA especially since there's so much writing about black people in that region in North Africa. So let's read it. An ad mixture of Eurasian, North African and subsaharan African MT DNA lineage is found in all Algerian samples as shown in other North African populations.

[00:38:38]Subsaharan lineages were remarkably frequent in the Zanetta.

[00:38:43]compared to the rest of Algeria samples in particular West African lineages L1B, L2A, L2B, L2C1, L3B, L3D add up to over 40% in the Zanata population. But the East African Haplau groups such as L4B2 do not exceed 3.5% of the Zeneta or in any of the other Algerian samples. It is also worth to note that North Africa MTDNA HLO group U6 is absent from the Algeria sample and it is only present in the Zenata individuals while it reaches 8.3 to 28.2%. 2% in other Algerian samples. Finally, M1, another North African lineage is not found in the Zenata samples. PCA [snorts] carried on MTD DNA hablo group frequencies showed that the first component separates the rigabit whatever that word is by high frequencies of haplo group U6A.

[00:40:00]So this very group that's been filtered out has a high amount of African DNA.

[00:40:07]But let's carry on reading. Whereas the Alga's sample lie on the opposite side of the component with high frequencies of Middle Eastern HLO group J. The subsaharan contribution differentiates the Zenata population from the others in the second component due to the presence of subsaharan lineages L2A, L3D and L1B.

[00:40:33]And then of course they lack some other North African DNA samples which this is one that was filtered out.

[00:40:42]Now of course we can do tough talk all the time but we have to consider where Berbers are found today. So if we look at the Sanhaja Berbers who are talked about a lot they are found mainly in Morocco Central African regions.

[00:41:02]The zenata on the other hand though they are some that can be found in central Africa are mainly found in Tunisia, Morocco, northern Morocco, the themson areas, um Algeria, northern Algeria for the most part. Uh Egypt, they are to be found in the northern parts of Libya.

[00:41:26]all over these areas that would be considered uh easy Phoenician spots.

[00:41:34]The Masmuda, another group that can be found closer to Africa, had even less samples of African DNA than the Zenata, who again are located very far to the north compared to the others.

[00:41:51]I want to make it very clear that I didn't make this map.

[00:41:57]Now, I'm not saying that the study doesn't make any sense or that it has nothing to do with the Africans. I'm just saying that clearly there is a group that stems from uh East Africa. So, a rebu group, a Libyan group, which remember the Libyans are the dominating tribe at that time.

[00:42:21]and especially if we're talking about from Egypt. So they were linked to Egypt, Kushites, linked to Carthage. And of course, if you take that entire row, you have that thing. So again, they're saying that they filter them based on what was said. But is that based on literature or is that based on just doing the genetic studies? I think they should publish or they should put in as well the information that they got from the people who they claim are not Phoenicians.

[00:42:57]Now, we could sit here and go through the Levventine DNA, but we've already gone long enough. We will continue to look into Carthage because it's one of those that I try not to look at at a at a that much because I feel like it's very limited information and a lot of people making conclusions.

[00:43:18]It's obviously a very complicated history.