A Religious MAGA Tries to School Atheists on Morality

Añadido: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Let's talk to John calling in from Arizona who is a theist and a Trump supporter. Wanted to make sure to put that in there. Uh who says, "I believe in God and I support Trump."

[00:00:11]That's what it says in the call screen here. So, what do you want to talk about?

[00:00:14]>> Yeah, this Yeah, this is all my personal opinion. You know, I I I do believe in uh God. Um I believe in a spirit world, an afterlife. And the way I was I think why it's why it's necessary is I think when we that people fall into moral relativism without God and uh you know Nichi talked about this about 150 years ago that there there it it creates a sociopathic nihilism not maybe not in all cases but but in a lot if there's just no if there's no belief in an afterlife and even just as bad uh it can lead down to the road of the occult and Lisa affair Arians are the ones who convinced me. I don't know if you're familiar with people like Michael Aquino or Alistster Crowley or Albert Pike uh or Anton Ley. They they convince me that there's an afterlife in a spirit world and I want to be on the side of God who is good. I could be wrong, but that's that's where I what I believe.

[00:01:12]>> Okay. So, there's a a few things here right away as we as we move in. Seth, looks like you have something you want to say.

[00:01:18]>> No, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. I >> did you you hit a lot of points there.

[00:01:23]Um, and I think the biggest one that jumps out to me, the thing kind of covers all of it is you're talking about moral relativism. Um, could you break down what you mean by that?

[00:01:35]>> Yeah. With without a sense of an afterlife, um, uh, morals can can be seen as culturally dependent or or or subjective.

[00:01:49]And that's, uh, that that's a danger.

[00:01:51]That's a danger. Uh because because without with with I mean I I know we can we can make up we can make up our morals based on logic and and you know what we believe is the right thing to do. But there's really nothing there's nothing grounding them without without an afterlife or I'm I'm sure you disagree though, right?

[00:02:10]>> I I do. And I I think the biggest issue that I have with this concept, you believe in the God of the Bible, right?

[00:02:17]>> No. No. I'm an ally of Christianity, but I'm not a Christian.

[00:02:22]>> Okay. So, you you don't believe that the Bible is true?

[00:02:26]>> No, I do not. I My my father was raised a strict Southern Baptist, but he rejected it. So, I believe in evolution, but I was I was convinced by Luciferians that that there's that there's a good and evil.

[00:02:38]>> But go ahead. I >> Okay. But what god do you believe in then? Or does does it have a name?

[00:02:44]>> Uh, no. I mean, I guess the best way I would describe it to you is just um a sense of a manacheanism ornosticism that concept of good and evil that there's there's there's there's good good spirits and there's evil ones and I want to be on the side of the good >> God.

[00:03:02]>> And where and so God is good. You're saying is God I I should say this. Is God a moral being? Like does God have moral choices?

[00:03:16]Um well well God is more of a a physical um entity that that ultimately judges us.

[00:03:25]So does God have moral choices? I I I guess I'm trying to get exactly what you mean. Like >> I mean like God judges us based on what?

[00:03:37]>> Uh on on how we live our lives and how we treat others. But it gets kind of tricky because uh you know a lot of times >> maybe ahead maybe I answer I'm sorry I'm I'm just trying to get here like I think I might have asked the question wrong or maybe I didn't communicate properly.

[00:03:51]>> To what standard are we being judged?

[00:03:55]What is the moral standard that you're claiming this? Is it God's opinion or is it something beyond God?

[00:04:05]I >> think it's God's opinion a totality of action. um that that we should and and be good.

[00:04:14]>> So if we are being judged according to God's moral standard and God's moral framework, then it is still subjective morality. God is just the subject.

[00:04:26]>> Well, it's an interesting way. It's an interesting way to is God subjective?

[00:04:31]That's a good question because if God is a subject powerful God >> well God would not be subjective like the way a person is subjective I mean God is the creator if God is creator of the of all then God is more than just subjective or do you disagree?

[00:04:46]>> I do disagree. Does does he have thoughts and opinions and feelings and emotions and experiences?

[00:04:53]>> It can be all of them. He can have all possible experiences. That's still a subjective experience.

[00:05:00]that is still a a person that is still all this stuff passing through his interpretation, his opinion and his judgment. So he is the subject in the subject of morality and at the end of the day that's only assuming that this thing exists. I still would be able to make the argument and would rather make the argument that morality is an evolved trait that is a cultural and biological thing. But that's a whole other conversation for later. Seth, what do you what do you say? You look like you're you're [ __ ] chomping at the bit. No, I I just, you know, I've heard all these assertions about what God is or isn't and what God wants or doesn't want. How do you know any of that?

[00:05:40]>> I, you know, I I could be wrong. You know, I I guess I I get my what what I think moral moral behavior ultimately comes down to is a cont.

[00:05:51]>> I would like you to answer my question.

[00:05:54]How do you know the nature of God?

[00:05:57]If there is a God, how how do you know what God is and what it wants?

[00:06:03]>> I I'm just telling you what I believe. I could be wrong.

[00:06:07]>> I know you believe it. I'd like to know why.

[00:06:10]>> Well, I was trying to explain that that that all all moral behavior comes down to a conflict between the it and the superego. So, for me, that the superego would include the existence of God. I know if if you're an atheist, you have maybe some, you know, philosophers you appeal to or or maybe some different things, but >> all I'm hearing is >> I made a leap. I kind of think and what I'm I want to know is how you would know that your claim is true.

[00:06:45]>> Well, I I certainly if you're asking me to to prove the existence of God, I I can't. I'm just it's it's called faith for a reason, right? I mean it >> no it's called faith because it's not knowledge right this idea that you're asking us to you're telling us that that faith is a somehow a credibility builder is a bit problematic anybody anywhere could make any claim and invoke faith so if you bring that chip to the table you really haven't brought anything to play with and I'm interested if you're going to call and make assertions about morality and link it to a higher power I think a reasonable question is how do you know there how how Did you how did you go there and how do you know rather >> well I I tried to explain it earlier that Luciferian convinced me of it that that they're >> you watch Alistister Crowley and you saw um Anton Ley and somehow these other human beings and their behaviors and claims convinced you that doesn't really help me right so um >> okay do you >> I don't think it's a difficult concept >> I I don't think it's a difficult concept to understand how people who are naturalists can understand the concept of harm, right? I was talking to Dr. Phil Zuckerman, soiologist, buddy of mine. I'm releasing a speech of his in just a few weeks about secular morality and this idea that we have evolved ethical systems. Our goal is to decrease the suffering and increase the joy. And we can root this back to our own survival as primates on this planet. We knew that pro-social ethical behaviors made us much more apt to survive and thrive. And we can understand what harm is. I don't buy that. Well, it's all arbitrary and we wouldn't be able to gauge or or at least call anything right or wrong without some objective moral standard and standard bearer. I don't buy that. I think it makes perfect sense to do less harm, to have less suffering, and to promote prosperity and goodness and safety benefits the tribe, which benefits me. Everybody wins. I don't think you need a god for that.

[00:08:58]Okay. So, well, well, there's a few things there, right? Do you do you believe that the I I think Rouso was wrong because the Rousoian view is that that humans are in inherently good and it's society that that corrupts you know and makes people do wicked things and I think Rouso got it backwards and this actually coincides with the belief of Christianity of the idea of original sin.

[00:09:19]>> I don't agree with Rouso either. What does Rouso have to do with your position >> that that I think that people are in innately benevolent and the reason I say that is if we look at chimpanzees we know that like there there's chimpanzees will go out I learn this from Jordan Peterson actually that chimpanzees who heard it from Jane Goodall but chimpanzees will actually go out on raids right and find like an outlier chimpanzee and just tear it to shreds for the hell of it right so there there is something in our nature that is extremely dark. And this is why >> what about all the hang on this is going to be more forest than than me. What about the the families, the tribes, the packs? What what about the groups of chimpanzees that engage in pro-social protective behaviors that actually show affection and love and care for their young and their old and will put their lives in danger to save or try to protect another who grieve when there's a loss? What about all of the uh the animals that actually demonstrate in an evolutionary model uh empathetic and pro-social behaviors that you're just going to discount all those?

[00:10:28]>> No, they do both. That's that's a fair point. It's >> Well, that sounds like >> But I I don't think that humans are inherently immoral. I think there are aberrations. I think it's wildly complicated. But if everybody was out there killing and raping and maming and stealing from everybody, we would not be alive. We would have just killed each other off by now.

[00:10:51]>> I think that also bad behaviors are amplified, right? It hundreds of millions of people loved John Lennon. It only took one man to assassinate him.

[00:11:03]And I think that we see bad behaviors are amplified. They're horrifying. They get a lot of headlines, but we don't see the acts of pro-social, ethical, good behaviors that happen that don't make the headlines, but they are part of our surviving and thriving. And they happen across the spectrum, religious people or not. Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Jewish people, seculars, agnostics, atheists, spirituals, whatever. It's a human thing. It's not a God thing. And I don't think that's unfair.

[00:11:34]>> Yeah. I don't Do you believe that we can get to morally proper decisions by logic? Cuz I don't think we can because what hap Go ahead. You said yes.

[00:11:46]>> Why wouldn't it be logical to act in a pro-social way? I'm sorry. Go ahead, Foresta.

[00:11:51]>> No, I was just I had the micro. Go ahead.

[00:11:53]>> No, I and I had it for the last two calls. No, I it's frustrating to me that like you we're talking about Jordan Peterson who, you know, shouldn't be taken seriously on this or really any other topic as a way to dismiss what actual cultural anthropologists have say about this issue, which is the opposite of what we're talking about here. And so, like, when we actually talk about how humans behave, I think Seth is absolutely right. You read a sexy headline about, "Oh my god, this guy did this terribly evil thing." That sticks into people's brains. A headline about somebody doing something good is rarely big enough to be a headline in the first place. And if it is, it's a flash in the pan just to give somebody something to to get out of bed with in the morning.

[00:12:35]Um, oh, this this kid raised a bunch of money to pay off a student or their their school lunch debt or whatever like that. And then they hope you don't ask about why there was such a thing as school lunch debt. So like at the end of the day, um the fact that we have a society at all tells you a lot about how well humans can get along just fine. We don't need a kind of society like we have today in order to do that. There are plenty of other cultures throughout history that have had much more ealitarian and anarchistic societies that worked along just fine without any of these issues. Um they're I I think it's ridiculous to say that we, you know, as animals were living just just raping and killing and poisoning and murdering and all this stuff until suddenly 2,000 years ago, someone passed down a western tradition that was like, "Hey guys, don't do this anymore." And then we all went, "Okay." And we needed that. Um, and frankly to to say that like humans need to be coralled and domesticated in this way, I think there there's strong evidence against it. No real reason to believe it and it just kind of diminishes the reality of of everyday life for everyday people.

[00:13:53]Well, I think it's I think it's difficult to to say that we can get to morality from from logic because it all depends on how we put in a hierarchy a set of principles. For example, right like I'm choice.

[00:14:06]>> Do you think do you think that do you think that in biomedical sciences and psychology we can learn what actually helps people live and thrive and like have their best lives? Do you think we can learn those things with biomedical sciences and psychology?

[00:14:24]>> I I do, but it's going to vary among cultures. So, they have a much different I'm talking about Islamic >> I'm talking about objectively I can learn these things are carcinogenic. These things are mutagenic. These things actually benefit human health and longevity. These things cause undue stress and anxiety. There are cultural differences of like who likes what kind of music. But I can say these kinds of stimuli, these kinds of chemicals are hazardous. These kinds of stimuli, these kinds of chemicals are beneficial. I can make objective stasis on those, right?

[00:15:00]Well, yeah. Well, here's Well, but here but here's something interesting. Okay.

[00:15:03]That that like in some places in the Islamic world like Iraq, um you know, uh like the Sudan, they marry young girls, right? which I think is morally wrong, I would imagine, >> and in the Christian world as well.

[00:15:18]>> Well, not not that young, but the point is that if you look at a lot of >> absolutely that young here in my state, here in our state of Oklahoma, we just this last month just passed a law getting rid of child marriage and like 30 of our Republican govern officials voted against it. So, yes, that is still a thing that happens in the Christian world. Absolutely. Yes. And if you want to say it doesn't happen anymore, that doesn't change it happening back in the day.

[00:15:46]>> Well, they're not they're not like in Iraq, the the legal age of marriage.

[00:15:51]This is Sharia law. It's about it's like age nine. Sudan is age 10 for girls.

[00:15:55]Look, it's not all that much. And this is why I I find the left >> and it happens with Christians too.

[00:16:01]>> Not that young. Uh but >> yep, that young. We actually look the uh the some of the main architects of queer theory actually agree with the Sharia law that there was several of the queer theorists who want to um who wanted to get rid of Asia consent like Fukco.

[00:16:17]>> It sounds like you're jumping to a different topic.

[00:16:20]>> No, I'm just I'm just Well, I'm telling you part of the I'm not shift shifting topics. I'm I'm just I'm just pointing out to you uh that that that morality um can differ among cultures. Uh, look, I'll take the I was I was mentioning it earlier that that I'm pro I'm pro-choice, >> you know, but >> that's not what I was asking you.

[00:16:40]>> That's not the point of what I was saying. Yes, morality can differ among cultures. You talked about an objective standard morality and how it's you can't get morality out of logic or you can't logic to morality. My question was, isn't it true that we can come up with objective frameworks of human health and well-being with actual science? And the answer to that question is yes. we can know even though there of course is always going to be fuzzy gray area on literally everything there's always going to you know apples are good for you and if you eat nothing but apples every day all day you're going to be sick anyway it's not going to be good for you and lots of venoms and toxins and poisons that are bad for you we can use actually to make life-saving medicines so like at the end of the day it's always wiggle room but we can come up with objective standards these things hurt people these things help people no matter what their culture is right and then we can use logic to say either selflessly or selfishly, do you want to live in a society where these things that we objectively know are harmful to humans both physically and mentally? Do you want to live in a society where those are prevalent? Objectively, no, I don't. I can say subjectively, I don't want to live in that society. Those are objectively harmful things. I can selfishly say I don't want to do that. I can selflessly say I don't want my friends and neighbors and relatives and loved ones to go through that. I can now logically say we as a society should work to eliminate these harms and amplify these benefits. I can absolutely use logic and science and objectivity to come up with a moral framework. Yes, >> you're going to run into problems with the hierarchy and I'll give you some examples. Okay, like I said, I'm I'm pro-choice. Okay. But the how what you tell me if there's any other variables you think right the variables in in in in in the the me being pro-choice would be uh the rights of the mother uh the the the the co the impact on society the rights of the unborn child and the rights of the father. And people are going to people are going to hierarchically prioritize these things differently. And this is why this is why I disagree with you that that we can't we can't logically get to it because people are going to to put you know I I've debated a lot of Christians. Okay. Because I wanted to like I said I'm an ally of Christianity and I wanted to find >> Yes.

[00:19:00]>> Go ahead.

[00:19:01]>> Not my hierarchy at all.

[00:19:02]>> Yeah. I want >> what? Say again.

[00:19:05]>> That's not my hierarchy at all. I don't have that problem >> because you put out uh >> you put out several different concerns when considering abortion. I have exactly one and that is bodily autonomy.

[00:19:20]I can establish a universal moral principle of bodily autonomy. Again, I can do this selfishly or selflessly and I can back it up with evidence and I can say bodily autonomy is a good thing.

[00:19:31]Therefore, the only single concern I have is the bodily autonomy of the pregnant person. If the person who is pregnant >> does not want to be pregnant, then they don't have to be because that is their autonomy that's being favored.

[00:19:44]No hierarchy.

[00:19:45]>> I I never got the I never got the C19 vax despite the totalitarianism of the left. Are you okay with that?

[00:19:52]>> Uh there's no totalitarianism in encouraging you to care about your neighbors.

[00:19:59]>> But it sounds like you're jumping topics again.

[00:20:02]>> No, I'm just giving I'm just giving you a counter to I'm not sure you're for as much bodily autonomy as you as you're claiming. If you chose nobody, no, I don't think anyone should be forced to get any vaccine, I think that vaccines are should be strongly encouraged because they're effective, they're safe, and they save lives more than just the life of the person who's being vaccinated. I think if you want a certain job and that job requires a vaccination, then you don't get that job if you're not vaccinated. That's about those people's freedom as well as yours.

[00:20:34]And if you want to be in a certain position, do a certain thing, go to a certain place, board a certain flight, whatever, those private individuals have the right to say, "We only want vaccinated people here. We care about our health and safety. We care about the health and safety of everybody else in this room. So, we're going to prioritize that. And if you don't want to be a part of, if you don't want to be part if you want to work at Disney, you don't get to wear a puka shell necklace and and flashy jewelry." They have the right to say that. If you want to wear that [ __ ] go wear it on your own time. Right? So there's an example of a friend of mine who tried to get a job at Disney when he was a kid. And they told him, "You have to get rid of your pukaell necklace."

[00:21:08]And he was like, "This is my thing. It's my identity. You either get the job or you wear the [ __ ] necklace. So if you want to go to a school, if you want to go to this college, if you want to get this job, if you want to get on this cruise ship, whatever, show your vaccination records. That's it.

[00:21:22]Freedom."

[00:21:22]>> Well, you see it. But see, I'm just I'm just showing you that and it's you articulated it that that the that the bottle bodily autonomy in the case of the C19 vac was subordinate uh to to um >> who forced you to get a vaccine and that >> who took away your bodily autonomy and forced who took away your bodily autonomy and forced you to get a vaccine.

[00:21:46]>> There was extreme pressure and coercion in 2021.

[00:21:49]>> That's not that's not removal of bodily autonomy. That's not removal of bottle autonomy. the government. No, hold on.

[00:21:55]That's not a removal of bodily autonomy.

[00:21:57]People encouraging you to do the right thing is not a removal of bodily autonomy.

[00:22:03]>> You don't think that uh people being being told they're going to lose their jobs or they can't be admitted to to college where they put in all kinds of money and years. You don't think that's a form of coercion? I would disagree with you. I literally just got through telling you those private businesses and private institutions have every right to set the rules on what has to happen for people to get in there. As long as they're not discriminating against you based on race, sex, gender, religion, sexuality, or any other protected class, they have a right to protect themselves and the other people in that organization and their bodily autonomy and their choices. Nobody forced you to change anything about your body or to put anything in your body. They said if you want to be here, you need these vaccinations. It's the same thing in public schools. When I was a kid, I had to be vaccinated against menitis before I got to enter middle school. If I didn't want to do that, if my parents didn't want to do that, I could have been homeschooled. Nobody forced me to do anything.

[00:23:00]If I want to be there, I need to keep myself and my peers safe.

[00:23:03]>> So, if you don't care about keeping people safe and you don't want to do the vaccine for whatever weird reason you have, >> then you don't do it. That's it. And if you have a medical exemption, submit a medical exemption and we're fine and you're not being discriminated against.

[00:23:17]>> Uh, one of the great heroes on the left, uh, Nam Chsky, I'm paraphrasing, but he >> not one of my heroes like uh, if >> well, not anymore maybe, but uh, he was a, you know, a lot of he but what he said I'm paraphrasing he said something like if the unvac can't get food that's their problem. So, I'm just I'm not Nam Chsky. Kind of a big name dropper and I I I'm not really sure what that accomplishes. And beyond that, I I'm still curious, John, if we're atheists and we don't believe in a God.

[00:23:48]Do you feel like that we're we have no moral rudder? Is that really what's underneath all this? Do you feel like Forest and I don't know right from wrong, help from harm?

[00:23:59]>> Uh, no. No, not necessarily. I I think people can be atheists and still be moral. I just I I I I I just I I I do believe that that having a Look, I'll be honest with you. I uh I fear hell, >> you know. I don't want talking about hell. I I want to know if if we are moral and we don't believe in a god, how did that happen using your model?

[00:24:26]Well, I I think that if you if you um treat people uh good with kindness, if you don't if you don't uh wrong anybody who hasn't wronged you, uh then then I would say that, you know, I'm just speaking generally, but I would say you you you could definitely be a moral person.

[00:24:44]>> Ethical pro-social behaviors that benefit all and benefit myself happening in the natural world. No higher power involved, that kind of thing.

[00:24:58]>> Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's uh I'm not saying that all atheists are immoral. I'm not saying >> I didn't say anything about all.

[00:25:05]>> All right. But our exception just broke your rule. That's all I'm saying.

[00:25:13]Well, there there can there can be exceptions to things, you know, like there there are things that I could do that that I would that would uh that I think would send me to prison and not to hell and also vice versa. So, there's there there can be exceptions to things and I think context matters. I think, you know, I think the biggest I think the biggest thing here that >> I think the biggest thing here that's really the most important is what you just said there at the end is you were talking about how you fear hell and what Seth and I are trying to get across to you. What Seth just pointed out, we develop morals on our own. We didn't need any of this stuff. I've been trying to tell you this whole time, I can think out my morals. I can give you Coberg's structure of moral hierarchy that I as I understand it and how moral development works and where my morals come from.

[00:26:01]We're sitting here on this side with people who have like logicked and reasoned our way into morality. And what you're telling me is you fear hell, which is that's not that is very low-level morality in my opinion. That is just a bad person on a leash. I don't want to be hurt. The guy in charge said do this, so I'm going to do this.

[00:26:19]Whereas we're over here thinking about what's actually best for our society, for our friends, for our neighbors, even for strangers. We want a universal moral principle of basic human rights.

[00:26:29]Everybody gets those no matter what.

[00:26:31]Here are these people I've never even heard of before. May not even agree with, may think totally different things. I want them to have basic human rights, too. This is the world that I want to live in. This is a better world that I want to build. No reward, no punishment. That's the right thing to do, so I'm going to do it. and you're saying, "I don't want to be punished, so I'm not going to do it."

[00:26:51]>> But ultimately, you just make it up, don't you? And you you have to appeal to force for it.

[00:26:57]>> You don't.

[00:26:58]>> Nope. As I've explained earlier, we can actually root these things in empirical evidence, and we can use logic and reason to, for lack of a better word, intelligently design our moral systems.

[00:27:11]And yes, they are culturally dependent.

[00:27:13]And yes, they change and evolve and grow over time. That's what makes them good.

[00:27:17]That's what makes them work. Because as we grow as a species, as a society, we win new rights, we learn new things, we uncover new truths, we change our minds, we get better and better every day.

[00:27:27]There's probably something that I'm doing today that I will think is immoral in 20 years. And I'm excited for that because that means I'll become a better person.

[00:27:39]>> You I think your religion is woke miss and queer theory. That's what I think your relation >> I don't think you know what either of those things mean. What's wokeness?

[00:27:47]>> Oh, uh, wokeness is, um, is the villainization of whiteness. That is the opiate of the left.

[00:27:57]>> Nope.

[00:27:58]>> And, uh, >> don't villainize white people. I don't actually believe that race is a real thing. It's a social construct.

[00:28:04]>> H, here we go with the social constructs. Yeah, this is postmodernism.

[00:28:07]When you were talking about deconstruction earlier, that's Dared.

[00:28:10]>> Nope. Not not postmodernism at all. It's actually just basic anthropology.

[00:28:16]Postmodernism would assert that I don't know what whiteness is. I'm telling you that whiteness doesn't exist fundamentally.

[00:28:24]>> I'd love for John to take a DNA test. By the way, I just think I I just throw that out there, right? We are all Africans, John.

[00:28:32]>> We are all the human species. We are all the human condition kind of deal.

[00:28:36]>> Yep.

[00:28:37]>> Yeah. Race race is a race is an attempt to simplify ethnicity. And if we do if I do a DNA test, they're going to tell me my ethnicity. And it was it actually makes sense in a practical way, you know, for several reasons that um you know, if uh just for example that if police are are pursuing a suspect, they can eliminate, you know, 80% of the population or whatever just by saying a person is perceived to be, you know, not white or not whatever, whatever. So there is some practicality to it.

[00:29:07]>> We're talking about physical characteristics. But hang on just a second. Are you wanting us to believe >> that white people are persecuted in this country?

[00:29:19]>> Uh I think that um in the last 30 years, and it's really accelerated in the last 10 to 15 years, there is a there's there's two types of uh of the the way white men can act. Straight white men.

[00:29:34]>> It's um it's like YouTube. Uh I'm assum I'm assuming you're straight. Uh, just forgive me if you're not, but you two that forever have to apologize and cowtow and talk about your white privilege or me that says [ __ ] this, I ain't doing it.

[00:29:47]>> Apologize for whiteness. Who's asked for that?

[00:29:51]>> Yeah. When have I when have I ever apologized for being white?

[00:29:54]>> Yeah.

[00:29:56]Am I apologizing for my eye color and my height as well? Or >> you should.

[00:30:01]>> That's probably should actually.

[00:30:04]the the summer of 2020 where the left was imposing totalitarian lockdowns but but they flip they do a one year >> totalitarian lockdowns that chaos just out of curiosity is this so just to be sure just I it's fine if we want to go down this road but this is the next thing that you're jumping to because you couldn't do the moral conversation again so instead of talking about the the thing that I just laid down that you told me I couldn't do and that I did in front of you instead of addressing that we're now moving on to the oppressive authoritarian lockdown pounds that didn't happen and the people that were fighting for civil rights because of, you know, disparity of violence towards racial minorities. That's that's where we're going now. That's the next thing that we're going to jump to the next hot button issue.

[00:30:45]>> And the single most privileged class in the United States is somehow now a victim in your story. Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:30:52]>> Oh, look, if you want to go back to I can answer whatever question you'd like.

[00:30:56]I was You asked me a question about about whiteness. I was trying to explain that uh >> you understand summer of 2020.

[00:31:04]>> Do you understand the difference between acknowledging the uh the racism and bigotry that the white majority in a very white centric country has carried out on people of color etc. Do you understand how acknowledging that and understanding the consequences of that, admitting that it happened and the damage that it caused and understanding the embedded racism that does happen, bigotry, tribalism, it comes in so many forms. Understanding it does happen in the hopes of defeating it to promote equality among the races and genders. Right? You understand that's not an attack on white people. is simply acknowledging that a privileged class of white oppressors [ __ ] some people over and they did it for centuries and it's okay to be honest about that fact and then try to make things right and more equitable tomorrow. That's not an attack on white people.

[00:32:04]>> Okay. Um Okay. Oppressor versus oppressed. This is this is the Frankfurt school. This is Herbert Marus.

[00:32:10]oppressive tolerance 197 more name dropping instead of John can you can you answer the question that Seth asked >> yeah I'm just telling you where where why you're crazy and where it comes from okay so yeah yeah >> so rather than addressing the point that Seth just eloquently made you're just going to bring up more names of people you don't like rather than giving any of your own thoughts >> okay great what's your answer >> all kinds all all kinds of other cultures throughout throughout history such as the Aztecs, the Moors, Genghaskhan, the Persian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, uh the Arab conquest of the 7th century, imperial Japan, they were all doing very similar things and there are about 25 million slaves in the world today and they are primarily located in India, China and Africa. But the left, >> how many of them are located in the United States, John?

[00:33:04]>> None of that was an answer to what he asked you. NONE OF IT AT ALL.

[00:33:07]>> OKAY. SO, so no, no. Here, wait, wait, wait. So, so you don't care what goes on outside the United States.

[00:33:13]>> No care at all.

[00:33:17]>> That is not the conversation we are having. You were talking about the woke war on whiteness as a MAGA in the United States. And I say, actually, white males have been running the show since forever and have operated with an obscene amount of luxury and privilege and latitude and favoritism. And acknowledging that is not a war on white men. It's simply acknowledging that because we have to understand it to be able to make things more equitable tomorrow. I'm talking about that and you start talking about every other part of the planet that is not the majority. I find that interesting, John. Sounds like deflection. Equity >> is what it sounds like.

[00:33:59]>> Equity is a delu equity is a delusion.

[00:34:01]It's a delusion to the left.

[00:34:03]>> Okay.

[00:34:04]>> And yet another straw man talking point to get you away from the point that was just made. Do you think slavery was a bad thing, John, when sla when we did slavery in this country? Do you think that was wrong?

[00:34:15]>> Looking at it through a historical lens, yes. But they didn't think it was wrong back then. And that that's what I was trying to tell you. that all kinds of >> Do you as a person do you as a person think that it's wrong to own other human beings as property, John?

[00:34:30]>> Yes, I do.

[00:34:31]>> All right, cool. So, when we did slavery and then we decided to stop doing slavery, do you think that it was as easy as just a stroke of a pen, we're not going to do slaves anymore, and then everybody was just happy and fine after that? Or do you think we had to acknowledge that this was an evil that we had done on a systemic societal level? And now we are going to take positive steps forward to make sure that we can't ever make this right, but we're going to get as close as we can to making this better and to just making this sure this never happens again and we we we make things better in the future. We have a brighter tomorrow.

[00:35:09]What do you think is reality when we ended slavery? Was it just bam and it's done or did we take steps to improve it and we acknowledged the problem and we made it better? What did we do?

[00:35:22]>> We did. This was LBJ's attempt at the great society. This is affirmative action. But but what's See, it's not systematic white.

[00:35:29]>> Not affir affirmative action wasn't around in the 1800s when we were fighting over slavery. I like all I asked was when we did away with slavery, was it as easy as just doing it or was it a progress, a slow process that we had to work on? We had to acknowledge the evils that we had done and work forward. What happened?

[00:35:54]>> No, I No, that's what I was trying to say. Jim Crow ended about 60 years ago, and we've made attempts to um >> Wasn't even talking about Jim Crow. Was just talking about slavery. Can't be this hard to understand what I'm saying.

[00:36:05]John, it sounds like you're dodging because you know where I'm going with this. So, I'll just skip to the point since you don't want to get there.

[00:36:12]>> The point is when we did something evil as a country, not an individual person did something evil. This nation did something evil. white people in control did something evil and gained a lot of benefit through their evil actions by oppressing people by committing genocide by committing the most heinous atrocities in the history of humanity.

[00:36:36]They gained a lot of wealth and a lot of power. And so in order to make things better, they didn't just stroke a pen across a paper and say, "Sorry, we won't do it anymore." They had to acknowledge the evil that had been done and work over the course of generations, decades, centuries to improve and ameliate the situation for everybody.

[00:36:56]And I'm telling you right now, the work still ain't done yet. And so now what we're talking about today is the same thing. No one's asking you to apologize for being straight or white or a man.

[00:37:07]That's stupid [ __ ] behavior to care about to think that you were oppressed and put upon because all we're asking you here is acknowledge the fact that something shitty happened. You don't have to apologize for it. acknowledge that people like us did something shitty for a long [ __ ] time and benefited from it for a long time and still benefit from it today and then put in the work to try to dismantle that and take away any remnants and vestigages of that evil from our society today to make our society better. to ameliorate that situation, to do away with that evil, to denounce it and get rid of it and put it out of your life and live in a better world. And you can do that selfishly or selflessly through logic and reason and objective moral standards without a god.

[00:38:00]To bring it all the way back around to the back.

[00:38:08]You are you there, John? Or was that too woke or queer for you?

[00:38:13]>> Yeah, I'm here.

[00:38:14]>> All right.

[00:38:14]>> Can you hear me?

[00:38:16]>> I mean, 40 minutes with John. I'm trying to decide Forest. I mean, are people having a good time this or >> I mean, it's it's it's been interesting.

[00:38:24]>> We're also we also have the the joy of talking to someone who is pitching morality who's a Trump supporter and that's a little bit of a challenge for me as well. John, >> it is it is fun. It is fun. I was going to get there later. I don't know. We can jump there now. Oh, you like I mean I don't I we can skip it if you want but I mean so I mean are you using an objective moral standard given to you by your high higher power as you support a sexual predator con grifter and manchild or >> I just I don't ever want the left I'm somebody who supported Democrats 20 years. I don't ever want the left to have power again. The left is is a deranged totalitarian nihilistic cult. I I don't >> Oh, man. You don't You don't like things like >> You don't You don't like things >> Exactly. You don't like things like economic prosperity, social progress, or having a stable foot on the world stage.

[00:39:16]You would rather make sure that those people that you don't ideologically agree with lose. Even if it means voting for a pedophile Nazi who calls people calls immigrants animals with bad genetics that cause them to commit more crimes like [ __ ] Hitler talk like we talked about at the beginning of the show. That's all worth it to make sure that these people you don't like don't get any power where they might do something horrible like improve education funding or make sure that children have free lunch at school. all those awful things like healthcare totalitarianism.

[00:39:49]>> The um >> well the uh I I don't like the left ideas of open borders and uh trans women.

[00:39:58]>> I don't believe in open borders.

[00:40:04]>> I would like to participate in this conversation if I may. Okay. No, >> please. Please.

[00:40:10]>> So this is the Fox Newsification of the conversation.

[00:40:14]We can talk about trans people in sports and the challenges that we see as far as how sports needs to adjust with our increasing and expanding knowledge when it comes to sex and gender. But I'll tell you the stuff that's impacting 360 million Americans right now. That is groceries prices. That is healthcare.

[00:40:36]That is education. That is science and science-based medicine. That is foreign policy. That's the bombs being dropped in Iran and the escalations of of political potential political violence worldwide. Uh we are seeing things affecting people on a day-to-day basis.

[00:40:54]But the distraction is because they don't want us talking about that is to throw out abortion and trans people.

[00:41:01]They want us talking also about immigrants and the border as if they're all border rapists who've come to take everything that we have and ruin our lives. And I've talked to Maggas left and right. I can't find [ __ ] one of them that's able to give me a single example of anything that an immigrant, documented or otherwise, has taken from them. And the truth is, Fox News and right-wing media and the Trump administration want us talking about immigrants, so we aren't talking about the billionaires.

[00:41:31]>> Look, the left there's a there's >> Oh, that was too many big words. We got to go back to the left.

[00:41:39]>> No, no, no. There's a there's a a a SA crisis in in in Western Europe and we would have had these problems a lot more in the US if if President Trump hadn't have stopped it. This is this is your idea of equity that this this is just to be clear you're talking about how we need you're talking about John before you get to the next racist talking point about the average IQ about whatever minority you don't like. Just to be really clear, you're talking about the sexual assault crisis going on in Donald Trump. And so you voted for someone who was convict a convicted rapist who bragged about walking into the changing rooms of the beauty pageantss he owned to get to see women, including underage girls, naked without their consent because he's the owner and so he gets to do it. And bragged about sexually assaulting women and grabbing them by the [ __ ] and bragged about how hot his daughter is and encouraged a radio show host to call his daughter a piece of ass and said that he would be dating his daughter if she wasn't related to him and said of his infant daughter before she could even talk that he hoped she grows up to have her mother's big tits. You're talking that's the guy who's protecting us from the sexual assault crisis that you're you're concerned about, right?

[00:42:52]despite the fact that statistically speaking by the own your own justice department immigrants commit less crimes per capita than natural-born citizens.

[00:43:02]So the data is against you, reality's against you. Your president is a [ __ ] rapist and a pedophile, but you'd rather support that because he's saying the same racist talking points that you are.

[00:43:13]As long as he owns the libs, right, John? as long as he trolls the libs by acting like a petulant [ __ ] child and posting images of himself [ __ ] all over America and sending the government the military in to attack American citizens. He'd literally just released his counterterrorism plan last month where he declared anyone who's against fascism is a terrorist.

[00:43:38]So Americans standing up for American ideals that makes you a terrorist now.

[00:43:44]But that's not the totalitarianism of the left who wants to do things like build better roads and hospitals and encourage you to get a vaccine but never force you to do it. Right.

[00:43:58]>> Well, if you want to if you want to go over C19, man, we certainly can. Um, but >> is that where you want to jump to next?

[00:44:05]Is that where we're running to now? This part conversation is too scary.

[00:44:09]>> No, you talked about vaccines and it that's why I said that. We talk about vaccines a lot.

[00:44:16]>> I think it's interesting that you see you see Donald Trump up there, Donald Trump who calling human beings animals that are bad genes that there's something genetically wrong with them that they come to our country and commit more crimes. Donald Trump who is up here talking about eugenics and Nazi talking points and you don't have an issue with that. Donald Trump who is an a convicted rapist. You don't have a problem with that. But this nebulous boogeyman of some immigrant that's going to come over here and do some bad thing. That's the real problem. And this issue of what do we have like 11 11 trans athletes in the NAACP or whatever the hell it's called?

[00:45:00]No, not ACP. That's a different organization. What's it called? The the the athletics association. I don't know anything about college sports, but the NCAA, that's what it is. NCAA, very different organization. We have like 11 11 [ __ ] trans athletes in the NCAA, and that's the major concern. Meanwhile, like Seth talked about, none of us can [ __ ] afford gas. None of us can afford groceries. Nobody can afford a house. People are dying because they can't get healthcare. People's insurance prices are going up hundreds of percents. The the government Trump literally just said on camera that he doesn't care about your financial situation. He just wants his war. And then JD Vance to come out and be like, "He didn't mean that." And then he came out and said, "No, I [ __ ] meant that.

[00:45:44]I meant that. The war is what matters. I don't think about what Americans can afford." The dude didn't even [ __ ] know the word groceries. He bragged on camera that he invented the word groceries to win the election cuz he doesn't think anybody talks about it. A [ __ ] scenile billionaire pedophile.

[00:46:04]THAT'S YOUR GUY TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE BIG BAD BOOGEYMAN immigrant that's going to come and take your jobs and rape YOUR WIVES. OH, GLOB. MEANWHILE, you've got Kla Harris in the last election. By the way, Kla Harris who said that she supported a comprehensive reform to our border policy and supported a bipartisan border protection bill that both parties came together. Unheard of. Democrats and Republicans came together and put forward a border protection bill that would have massively improved this problem. And Donald Trump shot it down.

[00:46:42]Kla Harris supported it and said, "When I'm elected, I'm going to make this happen." You voted against her and then Donald Trump destroyed it so that he had something to [ __ ] about and could continue scaring you with these evil immigrants that don't exist. He makes problems. He blames Democrats for problems. You believe him and then he takes your [ __ ] money. He's earned billions of dollars off this presidency on his [ __ ] cryptocoin scam and everything else. We just bombed the [ __ ] out of another country that we already claimed had already lost. Remember a couple of months ago when when we had we had a nuclear deal in Iran that was working, but because it had Obama's signature on it, Trump tore it up and then Iran started building nukes again because they weren't confined to the deal that we had. So, we bomb the [ __ ] out of Iran. Trump said, "We have completely obliterated their nuclear program. They will never recover." And then 3 months later, we're at war with Iran because they have nukes. What? Your dude is a [ __ ] failure and a pedophile. And you're up his ass instead of caring about reality because what?

[00:47:48]Some boogeyman might get you. Real smart, John.

[00:47:51]>> No, the the left is crazy and y'all are subverting Western.

[00:47:54]>> Oh, but the Oh, the left is crazy. Oh, man.

[00:47:58]Hey, what crazy thing did the left do that you actually have evidence for?

[00:48:03]Uh, >> the borders are Kamla and the Biden administration allowed about 10 million illegal immigrants to this country.

[00:48:09]>> You mean Kla Harris?

[00:48:11]>> Kla Harris, who was assigned, just really quick, Kla Harris, who wasn't in charge of the border at all, but was assigned to three countries to try to reduce immigration to those countries and succeeded. She reduced immigration from those countries she was assigned to by doing humanitarian aid and making those countries places where people didn't want to leave anymore. And so she actually significantly reduced illegal immigration in the limited capacity that she had. She wasn't in charge of the whole border. And now we have Trump over here who still hasn't built a wall.

[00:48:46]Still hasn't made anybody but you pay for what he has built. Still hasn't fixed the problem. And we have [ __ ] Nazis marching through the streets. ICE is rounding up anybody who's brown and nearby because the Supreme Court has given them license to detain people based on their skin color and their accents. And we're throwing them in concentration camps where we have credible reports from Amnesty International, the ACLU, internal whistleblowers, and the hundreds of American citizens who have been unlawfully detained and sent there because they weren't white about rape and abuse and torture and starvation and neglect. and we have thousands of immigrants that have just miraculously disappeared, just banished from the records. Nobody knows where they are.

[00:49:29]That's a better situation for you than somebody who actually got the work done by following the Constitution. You'd rather follow Trump who has said on camera he doesn't actually know if the Constitution should apply to him and is actively violating the fifth and the 14th amendments with ICE fascists. So you call the left crazy because we believe in things like science.

[00:49:52]Meanwhile, you support a fascist, a pedophile, a rapist who sexualized his own children before they could [ __ ] talk because that's the only way to protect you from the thing that was already being fixed.

[00:50:07]Again, I asked for anything you have evidence for. You've given me nothing more than just more [ __ ] Newsmax talking points. row.

[00:50:15]It sucks that you called in to ask all these questions and literally every single time we talked about morality, we talked about co vaccines. We talked about bodily autonomy. We talked about Trump talk. Every single time you say a thing and we let you know why that's dumb as all [ __ ] and here's what the actual evidence shows and then you just jump to the next thing. Do you get tired running around that much, John?

[00:50:46]So, I I'll tell you why. Oh, there we go.

[00:50:51]>> Look, I think the left is crazy as I I tried to mention earlier that that you all are telling us to shelter in place uh during C19 and then you [ __ ] flip and you encourage protest and you allow chaos, riots, and looting. Okay, it's more hierarchical. Couple couple of major talking points there. Number one, chaos riot riots and looting didn't [ __ ] happen the way you think it did.

[00:51:13]Uh well over 90% of BLM protests were peaceful. And the the FBI reported that of the ones that did turn violent, it was because mainly because of right-wing white supremacist agitators that were bust in that came in out of state to cause violence and cause problems. So it was your team, not our team. Also, if you remember, a big part about CO a way to prevent it was masking and being outside. The BLM protest that I attended and organized, I wore a mask and we were outside. So, those were safety things that we were able to do like intelligent people. Also, even if none of that was the case, sorry, man, we went out there and fought for civil rights and nobody forced you to be in your house. We encouraged social distancing. We encouraged you to stay in your house. We followed the evidence and we kept you updated. You dumb [ __ ] didn't know how to keep up with that. Sorry.

[00:52:11]Sucks to suck. I wouldn't know.

[00:52:14]>> Anyway, with that, John, uh, it's yet another situation where you bring up some [ __ ] that has nothing to do with anything at all and don't know what the [ __ ] you're talking about and it's been 51 miserable minutes. Seth, do you want to round us off on this call?

[00:52:26]>> I'm good, thanks.