Why Chronic Inflammation Starts in the Mouth and What to Do About It ft Dr. Ellie Campbell

Added: 2026-04-29

[00:00:00]You have this crazy crazy sentence that you like to say. What's a sentence that you say?

[00:00:04]>> Heart attacks are optional.

[00:00:06]>> Heart attacks are optional. What are you talking about? How is that possible?

[00:00:11]Tell us.

[00:00:11]>> It's not rocket science. It's following the functional medicine paradigm of root cause resolution. So, we look for all the underlying triggers of oxidative stress, inflammation, insulin dysregulation. And if we can find those triggers and take them away one by one by one as we treat all these different things, then the patients don't have events.

[00:00:33]Listen to what I'm about to say. Heart attacks are optional. Yeah, that's what today's guest says. She says that most people think that heart attacks start in the heart, but Dr. Ellie Phillips, a boardcertified doc for over 30 years, says that by the time you're looking at the heart, you've already missed the real warning signs. Her work centers on the connection between the mouth and your cardiovascular disease. When was the last time your doctor asked you about your teeth? Um, never. In fact, we consider it two totally separate things.

[00:01:04]Your dentist is over there and your primary is over here. And most of the time, insurance doesn't even cover any of your dental work. In this conversation, we're unpacking why patients are often told they're fine, right up until the heart attack, how prevention breaks down way before the symptoms appear, and why one of the most important risk factors for heart disease is your oral microbiome. We're not talking about doing more tests. We're talking about looking in the right place. Welcome to the medical disruptor, a place where well-versed humans can ask the hard questions and get evidence-based answers you won't find anywhere else. Every guest on this show must be clinically trained, MDs, DO, NPs, PAs, and researchers who want more and expand beyond their conventional education to find deeper answers for complex health challenges. And me, I'm Dr. Eve, the NP with a PhD, and I help smart, well-versed humans go from medically gas lit to medically empowered. So, let's get to it. Oh my god, we have an absolute disruptor on the show, Dr. Ellie Campbell, who's wearing the disruptor shirt. I love it.

[00:02:05]I'm dead.

[00:02:07]I have to say, you're the first guest who's wearing it on the show and now I'm like obsessed with you now. Now, from now on, I'm going to say if you're not wearing the shirt, you can't come on.

[00:02:16]You set you set the you set the bar, Dr. Campbell. Oh my god, I'm so excited to have you on here. This is we just were having a a little bit of a talk before.

[00:02:26]I'm going to fill everybody in. Um, but the reason it's called a medical disruptor is because I promise my audience that the people who come on the show are all clinically trained with MDO, PA or NP or researchers like who have who are like steeped in the science but then something changes for them and you are definitely a disruptor. So you spend three decades in family medicine.

[00:02:51]Yes. You train in osteopathic medicine.

[00:02:53]>> Yes. you go and then you're like, you know what, I'm just going to go pursue advanced training integrative and just, you know, oral systemic health just for just for like whatever. We're going to talk about your claim to fame in a moment. So, what was the moment that you realized that like you need to do more?

[00:03:08]>> A patient died.

[00:03:10]>> Say more. What happened?

[00:03:11]>> So, um, her name was D. She was delightful. Her daughter had been my patient. Her daughter had been told that she was infertile and at age 43 was unable to get pregnant. So she said that her husband's sperm and her eggs were incompatible and they couldn't procreate. And she said, "But we already have a son. He's >> Yeah, that's the Okay, >> I think we can do this." And they said, "Nope, we're not going to try." So she said, "Maybe I heard through the grapevine Dr. Campbell was good with hormones. Maybe she can help me." A year later, we had a little baby boy.

[00:03:48]Everything was great. And she said, um, you know, I think my mother could use some help with her hormones, too. I don't think they have her very well balanced on her.

[00:03:59]>> So, um, De was about 70, I guess, at that time, and she came to see me as a patient, and she had high cholesterol, but we followed the best evidence guidelines and treated that. She had hypertension, high blood pressure, but we treated that and I helped her balance her hormones and her life was marvelous.

[00:04:16]She was able to go four-wheeling with her grandchildren and dancing with her much younger boyfriend and keep the family books and everything was great >> until one day her daughter called me panicked >> and said, "Mother didn't come to work today." I drove over to her house. I frantically peeked in every door and window and tried to see where she was.

[00:04:37]And I finally found her crumpled on the floor in the basement next to her computer. She was alive but barely breathing. We called 911. They couldn't get her. She couldn't get into the ambulance. She was densely paralyzed on one side. She'd had a massive stroke.

[00:04:52]They brought her to the hospital. We happened to live very close to a stroke rehabilitation hospital. So that was a blessing. She got there, but it was too late for her to qualify for those miracle clot busting drugs that can sometimes be given that literally can be like a magic eraser and dissolve a clot and reverse the stroke. But that wasn't her case.

[00:05:12]>> So, she recovered from a stroke and I was talking to her on the phone and she joked with me that um she was going to have to have a lot of rehab because it was really hard to line dance with one dragging. And so, she still had her sense of humor and everything seemed to be great. And then she had this tragic complication. It's called hemorrhagic transformation. And it's where that damaged spot in her brain from where the stroke was burst open like a dam that broke and she had an internal brain hemorrhage and she died. And I felt like I had been punched in the gut because I followed the best evidence-based guidelines of everything in our practice that we were supposed to be doing.

[00:05:57]>> This is really important. First, before I give my my point, I have to say you are a really good storyteller. I'm like I'm like I'm at the edge of my seat. And then what happened? You're so good. And it was like so I don't even know. I don't It was amazing. I have to just say that. Kudos to you. Sorry, sidebar. I do that add. Um, but the the thing that I love about what you're saying, um, first of all, rest in peace and thank you, uh, to >> thank you to her legacy because >> her legacy >> that changed the trajectory of my career.

[00:06:25]>> Yes. So, I take that as well. But what I'm what I'm loving hearing in like every single guest that comes here, something happens and then you get curious because other people will just do you know like an Eminem like a postmortem like have a conversation and okay and then move on. But you it tr you like this is not okay and how many other of our colleagues will have similar cases and then just move on. Not that they're bad people but this internal curiosity something that is so magical really makes you a disruptor. So, you started taking these classes and I'm going to like take us to the end and then we're going to go back and at the end of this class you have this crazy crazy sentence that you like to say.

[00:07:09]What's a sentence that you say?

[00:07:10]>> Heart attacks are optional.

[00:07:12]>> Heart attacks are optional. That's outrageous. Dr. Campbell, what are you talking about? How is that possible?

[00:07:20]Tell us. Well, so after I learned everything in this course and the course, the major course that changed the trajectory was my dear they're now dear friends Brad Bale and Amy Donine.

[00:07:31]They have the Bale Donine method and it's not rocket science. It's following the functional paradigm functional medicine paradigm of root cause resolution. So we look for all the underlying triggers of oxidative stress, inflammation, insulin dysregulation and if we can find those triggers and take them away one by one by one as we treat all of these different things, then the patients don't have events. And so the one that I had not heard of prior to this course was oral health was the fact that mouth bacteria can get in the bloodstream and cause plaque. Mouth bacteria can get in the bloodstream and rupture that plaque and cause events. So after I learned this, I called Cheryl, the daughter, and I said, "I went to this course and I think I might know maybe a clue what might have happened to your mother. what was the piece that I missed because I didn't know it then. Is it possible that your mother suffered from a dental infection shortly before her stroke? And she goes, "Oh, yeah."

[00:08:39]She goes, "She had a massive toothache.

[00:08:41]She'd already been to the dentist. She was supposed to be put on antibiotics and have surgery next week, but she never lived that long."

[00:08:49]>> Oh my god, that is absolutely crazy.

[00:08:52]We're going to dive more into that, but it's like at first you started saying, you know, all the lifestyle and and root cause and I'm sure that our like you our colleagues are like we are managing those things. We are really focused on the cholesterol and we monitor every six months and we bring our patients in there every six months and we do the blood pressure. But you're saying in essence, what are you saying about that?

[00:09:13]Like these every six months hypertension and every three months check on the A1C.

[00:09:18]What are you saying about that care?

[00:09:20]>> Right. So that care is well-mannered but not accurate enough and and not emphasized enough. So for example, I think one of the biggest myths is that cholesterol causes heart attacks.

[00:09:36]Cholesterol is like teenagers. You see, well-behaved teenagers are welcome in my home. Corrupted teenagers got no business near my kids.

[00:09:46]>> Okay, >> cholesterol is the same. Well-behaved cholesterol is good for us. We use it to make cell membranes and vitamin D and bile and brain cells and hormones.

[00:09:58]Corrupted cholesterol, cholesterol that's oxidized, that's sugarcoated, that's the wrong shape or size. That cholesterol can kill you, but that's not the cholesterol anybody checks for.

[00:10:10]>> Exactly right. I was going to say the cholesterol when we go for our annual is like the HDL little like the basic panel. We're just counting numbers, but we don't know the numbers of what is it? A whole I mean, yes, we know HDL. Okay, there's some known, but what is it that we're not I know we gota we're going to get back to the mouth. Trust me, I promise you guys, we're going to get back to the mouth.

[00:10:31]But what is it about the basic cholesterol panel that we're missing?

[00:10:34]What are we not seeing?

[00:10:35]>> Because it's a basic cholesterol panel.

[00:10:37]What they need to be ordering is an advanced lipid panel. a panel that looks at LDL particle numbers and size that looks at APOB that looks at um the APO1 APO ratio that looks at oxidized LDL and the newest kit on the block which isn't new at all but cardiologists are talking about it for the first time in about within the last five years it's called LP little a lipoprotein little a sticky dense cholesterols and it can even cause that heart um that plaque to rupture and cause the heart attack event itself. So managing lipoprotein little A is really hard. It's mostly genetically determined and it doesn't budge much even with all of the good lifestyle things. So people who are dealt genetically the lipoprotein little a hand often will require medication which I don't like to use if I don't can help it. But >> and you know and this is the point and this is a point that I think many people who are uh on the influena world missed the point because when you say the beginning of this conversation of cholesterol is not necessarily the cause of the heart attacks the influenza world jumps to like and therefore you should never take a statin right and that is just as harmful as all cholesterol should take a statin right >> and so the nuance that I think so many people are missing is that It's not about that number of that. It's about what's happening. And if you have u ap little a of you you are taking a statin. I mean you don't have to take stat. You could do what you want, but you are more you are more likely going to drop dead as a result then. And that's really important because especially for our postmenopausal women, right? Like their numbers just go up, but that doesn't mean they need to be on a statin, >> right? And we all worry about breast cancer, you know, as being a this threat that's going to jump out of the bushes and get us. But one out of two women die from heart disease.

[00:12:38]>> Yeah. So it's, you know, >> this is bigger.

[00:12:42]>> Five times more than breast cancer, but we all worry about our boobs.

[00:12:46]>> That's crazy. So now we're going to get to oral health because one thing my audience knows is inflammation. So we know inflammation is bad and we know that toxic load is bad and the more bad stuff we have, the more inflamed we are.

[00:12:59]And we're all really focused on mold and the plastics, all very important things.

[00:13:03]But we're forgetting about the microbiome, >> right?

[00:13:06]>> The oral microbiome, >> right?

[00:13:08]>> Tell us tell us about it.

[00:13:09]>> Yeah. So, first of all, you know, we have more microbial cells on this organism by orders of magnitude than I do human cells. So, so we are interdependent on our microbiome. And inflammation is not always bad. If I cut my finger, I want inflammation to get in there and heal that up and make that go away. I don't want it to persist for months and years after my injury.

[00:13:37]That'll be a cancer growing on my finger if that happens. Same is true in your mouth, right? We'll floss and we'll get a we'll we'll go too deep and we'll make our gum bleed. We need a little bit of inflammation there. We need to have mouth bacteria. We do not want to napalm the inside of our mouth with mouthwashes to annihilate the friendly bacteria that live there in an effort to get rid of the bad bacteria that are causing us to have bad breath. That is a bad microbiome story. What we want to do is balance the microbiome and get rid of the pathogens. And the pathogens are the ones that not only can lead to dental cavities. We call those carries in dental school. Um, and periodontal disease. Gum disease goes on a progression from mild gingivitis to severe periodontal disease that can lead to teeth wiggling, bone loss, teeth falling out, and then the bone shrinking away. All from inflammation caused by periodontal pathogens.

[00:14:44]And you know, it's it's fascinating because we forget that everything's connected.

[00:14:50]>> Yeah. And what happens in the mouth doesn't stay in the mouth, >> right?

[00:14:55]>> That's the big revelation that I think, you know, back in 1840, there was this uh proposal to the dental school in Baltimore to the medical school in Baltimore, Maryland. we think we should include some dental education in our medical school curriculum. And the doctors, the medical doctors said, "No, we're not doing that."

[00:15:17]>> That's crazy. We're >> doing the body. We're not going to do the mouth >> because the mouth is not part of the body.

[00:15:22]>> That's right. That's right. Mouth, you just need to cut it off here. Separate.

[00:15:26]>> The vagina is not part of the body. And and neither is mental health. So, your brain's not part of the body. We're just going to go from here to here. So in 1840 they established the Baltimore College of Dental Surgery and Never the Tween Shall Meet. Ever since our educations have been separate. We use separate vocabulary words. I don't know how the teeth are numbered.

[00:15:47]>> Right.

[00:15:47]>> I mean I I have a chart. I can look it up now. But in order to talk to a dentist, you need to know what tooth number it is. Right.

[00:15:54]>> Right. Absolutely.

[00:15:55]>> So um >> we have different languages. We have meial instead of medial. We have we have all these different things. So, it's hard to for a medical person to talk to a dental person. And learning each other's languages is one of the first steps in interprofessional collaboration. But coming back to these oral bacteria, we learned that they don't stay in the mouth. that they get into the bloodstream, especially if there's blood, but even if there isn't, >> right, >> they bury themselves into our red and white blood cells, and they hitchhike and they travel. So, wherever your blood goes, your mouth bacteria can go.

[00:16:35]>> Yeah. And by the way, not just heart attacks. I had a patient who had uh um infection of the spine, secondary to a mouth cleaning. Like, it's traveling.

[00:16:45]It's >> it's traveling.

[00:16:47]>> And guess what? We swallow about a liter of saliva a day. Do you think the mouth bacteria could get down in there too?

[00:16:55]>> Um, >> no. Can't happen.

[00:16:57]>> And so we now know that certain oral bacteria are highly associated with colorctal cancers and colorectal cancer metastasis and pancreatic cancer. And we know that they can climb up the trigeminal nerve and down the vagus nerve and get anywhere in our brain and in our body.

[00:17:19]>> Anywhere they want, everywhere. And you know, even though you said there's like this bifurcation between medical and dental, even in dentistry, not all dentists, like I know I had to, it wasn't until my late 40s that I finally went to a functional dentist. And the very first thing they did in their analysis was take a swab to see how my oral microbiome is doing. Thank god it's fine. But like and it's two seconds on the slide and it wasn't like a fancy test. It was like they're able to see it in two seconds. Like I never had that happen at a dentist before. This idea of like you just you just kind of regular dentists just kind of go in and fix what's broken. Very much like primary care but of which I still practice. But we're talking about a different type of dentistry as well. It's not like all dentists. So >> exactly. But to be fair, I mean, even in medicine, when did gastroenterenterologists start to pay attention to the gut microbiome, >> right? Right.

[00:18:14]>> They run the scope up in there, they clear out all the poop, and they are like shocked when a patient says, "I'd like to take a probiotic." They're like, "What for?

[00:18:22]>> What is this nonsense?"

[00:18:24]>> Because washed away all my good, bad, and indifferent bacteria that were living there. So >> yeah.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah. It's funny that you said that. I just recently did a real about uh there was this Instagram post. It was a trend among GIS who like have pictures of themselves doing a scope and they're saying if you are not someone who has a skill to do this you should not be talking about gut health. And I was like sir ma'am that is not correct. You have a great skill set that I do not have but you pro you probably never talk about the gut microbiome and and we actually need a lot of this conversation. So, so what is what are we telling what do you want to tell patients about their mouth?

[00:19:04]What should they do?

[00:19:05]>> Yeah. So, I would say that first of all, I would love to see a ground swell of patients coming to their dentists and saying, "What can you tell me about the health of my mouth microbiome?"

[00:19:21]>> And when the dentist says, "What are you talking about? What should they do?"

[00:19:24]>> Right? you you're gonna say, "Have you ever done a spit test, a salivary diagnostic test to look for my oral microbiome?" And the dentist say probably no.

[00:19:37]>> And you're going to ask them, "Would you like to learn?" Because I would like you to learn.

[00:19:42]>> Yeah. And they will say, "Not interested." Then I would say, >> "You're at the wrong dentist."

[00:19:48]>> That's probably not your best dentist.

[00:19:50]Because if you're interested enough to know, then you want to find a like-minded practitioner that wants to know.

[00:19:57]>> Yeah, I agree with that so much because uh and it doesn't mean you have to swear off your dentist. Maybe you need them for other things. I'm not sure.

[00:20:05]>> Right. Just like you might have a gastronurologist and a gut health specialist, >> right? Dentists and oral microbiome specialists. And recently I've had like uh dentists who are airway specialists really talking about the cavities are optional, >> right?

[00:20:20]>> And% we did not we just grew up saying like you eat your sugar you get cavities. But >> uh the children of the future do not have to have cavities at all if we correct correct that as well because that's back to >> microbiome. Fun fact side step fun fact sideep.

[00:20:36]>> I love fun fact side steps. Mamas who use xylitol during their second and third trimesters of pregnancy three to six times a day. So twice a day brush your teeth after each meal you have a xylitol mint. Their children have 80 to 90% less cavities through age five and in some studies through age 18.

[00:20:59]>> That's insane. So treating the mamas to change their oral microbiome and reduce that strep mutants that causes the cavities changes the future of their children for the rest of their life.

[00:21:16]>> That's amazing. My daughter's pregnant.

[00:21:17]I'm going to go tell her to get some dial.

[00:21:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:21]>> Is there do you have an opinion or is this at all in your wheelhouse about root canals as it pertains to microbiome? In my opinion, my welleducated opinion, all root canals are temporary. They're always going to cause trouble somewhere down the line.

[00:21:37]However, that might be 5 years, 15 years, 20 years, 50 years in the future.

[00:21:44]So, you might be able to buy some time with that root canal before it becomes a serious systemic problem. It will always be a little problem. No root canal tooth has better or ever been pulled after the root canal and is sterile.

[00:22:01]>> So, are you saying though when you say it's a matter of time for the problem, is does it have to be a problem that shows up in the tooth or are you saying it's a problem that could show up somewhere else?

[00:22:08]>> Quick little break. If this episode is hitting home, you need this. I made a free guide called the five red flag phrases that signal medical gaslighting.

[00:22:17]Cuz if you know what to listen for, you'll know when to push back. Politely, of course. Check out the link in the description. Now, let's keep going.

[00:22:23]>> Right. That's the million-dollar question, and I'm so glad you asked it because the dentist doesn't recognize that it's a problem. The dentist says everything's beautiful. Your root canal is fine, but you had a stroke.

[00:22:38]>> Fascinating.

[00:22:39]>> So, was it a fine? Was it fine?

[00:22:42]>> But how do you know if you're feeling fine in your mouth, you have no oral issues?

[00:22:46]>> Because a root canal tooth has no nerve.

[00:22:49]It doesn't feel anything.

[00:22:52]So is your contention that everybody if they have the economics to do so any root canal should be replaced.

[00:22:59]>> So I think every root cow canal needs an assessment and so there's a couple of ways to do that. Number one is to do a cone beam cat scan x-ray. It's a super fancy um many dentists have that panorex but that's x-ray. This is a CAT scan and it could be magnified. And we now have the capability to use AI interpretation to look at the amount of space between the cells like on almost a microscopic level to determine if there's an abscess there.

[00:23:30]>> If there's a root canal with an abscess, it probably needs to be pulled.

[00:23:34]>> And then you need to talk about other options because if there's an abscess there, it's probably in the bone. and your regular dentist who thinks they're doing the standard of care may not fully debreed all the infection that's in the bone surrounding that tooth that was holding it in. So the second way to have an assessment is a little bit woowoo but I hope your audience gets it and oh they will >> to go see a bioenergetic practitioner someone who specializes in something called electroacupuncture of vol or a bea a bioenergetic assessment and so in this methodology they use a a wand that's connected to their computer they touch your acupuncture points they read the energies off of your body, feed it into the computer, and a very well-trained practitioner, and I only know about three or four of them in the five of them in the country who do this, but there's probably others, I just don't know them. Um, and they feed it into the computer and it says, "Is the tooth viable or not? Is it causing a systemic problem or not?" Because if it's just oral, you can probably write it out a while.

[00:24:49]Maybe we'll do some ozone injection in there. Kind of tamp down those bacteria, keep the inflammation at bay. Do ozone injection once or twice a year. Kind of keep it settled down.

[00:25:01]Expertly practice oral hygiene at home.

[00:25:05]That means electric toothbrush, water flosser, regular toothbrushing, not mouth breathing, not drinking acid all day.

[00:25:14]all these oral health things that we need to do at home to keep our oral health optimal and have a spit test to make sure that you're not harboring these pathogens that can lead to that root canal suddenly going south on you when an immune insult came in. So you're saying if you could have it all, you would say every American that every human why I say American every human that has a root canal should at the very le should either go get that cat scan.

[00:25:47]Say the name of the cat scan again.

[00:25:49]>> Cone beam cat scan.

[00:25:50]>> Cone beam cat scan >> CT >> or go to a bioenergetic >> practitioner >> practitioner and find out what's happening in your teeth. And you're saying it's a matter of time. It's inevitable. Unless you die before it happens, it's happening. So, you know, what's a patient to do? They go, you know, we talk about in primary care like and you go and people are like, "Yeah, you're fine, >> right?

[00:26:13]>> You're going to go to the dentist."

[00:26:14]People go yearly. They go twice a year, three times a year for cleanings and they're told they're fine.

[00:26:20]>> So, this is where I believe that an educated patient can be the ground swell that forces our practitioners to get a better game.

[00:26:30]I love that so much.

[00:26:31]>> I want you to ask your your hygienist when you have your cleaning. What's my pocket depths?

[00:26:37]>> Oh, okay.

[00:26:39]>> You know your blood pressure, you know your blood sugar, you know your cholesterol. Do you know your pocket depths?

[00:26:44]>> Oh, you're going to be that.

[00:26:45]>> What is a pocket depth? Right. So, where the tooth sits against the gum, >> okay, >> there's a little pocket where the gum is attached. A normal pocket depth is one, two, or three millimeters depending.

[00:26:59]Front teeth usually one or two. Back teeth will tolerate a three. If that gum tissue begins to pull away from the tooth, now we have a pocket that we stick a little probe down in and we measure it.

[00:27:12]>> And when the hygienist is cleaning your teeth, they are all recording this behind your back.

[00:27:17]>> Wow.

[00:27:18]>> Sometimes you'll hear them one, one, three, two, four, one, five, five, four, one.

[00:27:25]Some most of the time you don't hear it.

[00:27:27]Some of them have software that they can dictate into and it's recording all of these. But every tooth has a pocket depth recorded >> on a perio chart.

[00:27:36]>> I believe hygienists should be obligated to share that information with the patient.

[00:27:42]>> Okay.

[00:27:42]>> The next step of that is that unfortunately complacency in the dental ch in the on the dental examination side is that fives are okay. It's not changed since the last time, right? No. Just like a blood pressure of 140 over 90 is not okay, right?

[00:28:03]>> Yeah. So, >> and your kidney declining even though you're not in stage three, is not okay.

[00:28:08]>> 140 over 90, you're okay. Well, it's not great. Just come back and see me in three months and we'll recheck it. No interventions are made, >> no change in therapy, guidelines don't start yet.

[00:28:18]>> No change in supplements. Just we're going to check it again. And that's what happens in dentistry. You have five millimeter pockets. They say, "Oh, you need to come for a four-month cleaning instead of a six-month cleaning."

[00:28:29]>> What about gum recession?

[00:28:31]>> Yeah. So, gum recession is the same thing, right? This is those pockets shrinking away from the teeth. Some of that gum recession is related to hormones. Believe it or not, uh there's a there's estrogen receptors in our gum.

[00:28:44]So, as we lose our estrogen, as we age through this menopausal transition, we get more gum recession. Being on hormone replacement can make everything more than juicy, including the gums.

[00:28:56]>> Everything. It's so crazy. I tell people all the time, just get on it. Just get on it. Hurry up.

[00:29:03]>> Um, is there is it reversible?

[00:29:05]>> Yes, it is reversible. Unless I do this barbaric surgery where I'm going to scrape the roof of your mouth, try that tissue on your >> I know.

[00:29:14]What is that? How I Someone said that to me. I was like, "Is this how far we've come?" We We talked over each other. I'm going to say it again. I'm sorry. That's my apologies. But like, is this how far we've come in dentistry that in order to do that, we have to shave off part of the roof of your mouth, put it on where your gums are, suture it? Like, what is that? That can't be the only thing. So, for the clinician who's listening, right, they were never trained to think about this. This is absolute insanity.

[00:29:39]What mindset shift do you want clinicians to make? They want to stop managing heart disease and actually start preventing it.

[00:29:46]>> I think first you have to be curious, right? I mean, I had a patient that came to see me in congestive heart failure.

[00:29:53]He um he and his wife were newlyweds. He was 78, I think, at this age, and she was 64. They were newlyweds. And she wanted to lose um 15 pounds to get into her wedding dress. She came to see me 6 months before. I said, "I think we can do this." She lost 25 pounds and had to have the dress taken in. Yay, success.

[00:30:14]So, um, she gets married and, um, she says, you know, my husband's diabetic and, um, he has a bad heart and, um, he went to go see the heart doctor and the heart doctor told him that he had 25% ejection fraction in it. So, should have 60ish% be able to pump all that blood out. It was failing. his heart was not strong enough to pump the blood out. So, he can't get circulation to his brain or his privates. Right. Right. So, things aren't working as well as it should for newlyweds.

[00:30:49]>> So, the cardiologist said, "I need to take you to the hospital. I need to do an implanted defibrillator and maybe a a pump." And certainly the patient says, "I don't really like that idea. What else you got, doc?" He goes, "Well, you could go home and die."

[00:31:03]>> Nice.

[00:31:03]>> He goes, "Well, I don't think I like either one of those plans too." Well, I'm going to go see my wife's doctor.

[00:31:08]She might have an idea for me. So, she he came to see me and I put him on co-enzyme Q10, acetylcarnnitine, um, magnesium, and dribbos. Uh, Dr. Steven Sinatra calls these the fearsome foresome cardiac nutrients. All necessary for mitochondria to be able to make ATP to improve the oxygenation carrying capacity of all those heart cells. We went back to see his cardiologist in three months. His ejection fraction was 37%.

[00:31:37]>> Insane.

[00:31:38]>> And the surgeons and the cardiologist said, "Huh, I guess you don't need that defibrillator after all." And the patient said, "Don't you want to know what I did?" And the cardiologist said, "No, just keep doing it. Seems to be working."

[00:31:50]>> Now, for the patient listening, what's one oral health signal that patients should stop ignoring if they care about their heart?

[00:31:58]>> Yeah, pink in the sink.

[00:31:59]>> Oh, really? That was easy. If you brush or floss and there's pink in the sink, you have dental inflammation. I don't care. Okay, maybe one exception. I was eating Doritos. I knew I shouldn't have been eating, so I was chomping them down too fast. We noticed and I cut my gum.

[00:32:18]>> Yeah, that's about right. Right. So, we know a known trauma is like, >> right, but if it's happening as part of your daily, >> right? If you get pink in the sink, you have a serious dental problem. If your eye was bleeding, would you ignore it?

[00:32:32]>> Wow, that's so true.

[00:32:33]>> You know, >> we're so used to bleeding. Like, my gums bleed when I floss. You're like, >> "Right. Not normal."

[00:32:39]>> Wow.

[00:32:40]>> And that's crazy.

[00:32:41]>> If you have bad breath, you may very well have a bacterial overgrowth in your mouth that can be fixed. And >> that's amazing.

[00:32:51]>> Annihilating it with Listerine is not the best strategy.

[00:32:54]>> And could we assume that if you have an oral microbiome issue, you have a GI microbiome issue? Yes, you can't have a healthy gut if you don't have healthy gums.

[00:33:03]>> What belief about heart disease prevention do you think medicine needs to abandon if we're serious about reducing heart attacks?

[00:33:10]>> That cholesterol is the problem.

[00:33:12]>> Hey, that's it. That's right.

[00:33:15]Cholesterol >> the number one issue. You know, studies show that people with the highest cholesterol live the longest as long as that cholesterol is not corrupted. If it's corrupted, now you got a whole different ballgame. Most common oral finding you see in patients who later have cardiac events, >> hidden root canal infection.

[00:33:35]>> One dental issue cardiology almost never asks about. I feel like they don't ask about any dental issues, but >> right um I guess the dental qu is how are your teeth? Like >> they don't even ask that at all.

[00:33:47]>> And you know in medicine we talked about we do a soap note, right? So we have past medical history, past surgical history, family history, social history, gyn history. I now include an oral history, oral health history in my patient intakes. And that includes, do you have any pink in the sink when you brush or floss? Have you had any root canal teeth? Have you had any implants?

[00:34:08]Do you have any teeth that hurt? When was the last time you went to the dentist?

[00:34:12]>> Oh my god, Dr. Campbell, is there anything else we need to tell our audience that I forgot to ask you? Whoa.

[00:34:18]Um, where can I find a practitioner to help me?

[00:34:23]>> Yeah. Well, I just assume it's all coming to you, but tell us where can I find position to help you?

[00:34:27]>> So, I have a teeny tiny little concierge practice in in I don't take any insurance. Haven't taken insurance for 20 years. I'm in the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia. But yes, I'm taking new patients.

[00:34:38]>> Yes. Everybody go Dr. Campbell, hurry up.

[00:34:40]>> But, uh, two websites. Number one, the Bale Donine website has a find a practitioner link. And number two, AOSH, the American Academy for Oral and Systemic Health. And there's a third one, International College of Integrative Medicine. All of those organizations have practitioners who have heard one or more or hundreds of lectures on oral systemic topics.

[00:35:04]>> That's good. That's really good. You know, I tell people in my world to go in institute of functional medicine because >> yes, >> it's it takes a lot to get these certifications. Like these are no joke certifications. They're they're intense.

[00:35:17]I know IFM was really intense for me to get. And if someone went through the trouble of getting certification, it's a great place to start. It is. So, I'm glad you gave us those resourcing and expertise and not have that certification. For example, I started with IFM before they had certification.

[00:35:36]I've been to many, many conferences. I'm listed on the IFM website, but I'm not an IFM certified practitioner, but I had 30 years of doing functional medicine.

[00:35:45]>> Fair enough. Just as a starting point for those who are not sure.

[00:35:48]>> If you know nothing and you don't have a good referral, you know, IFM's a great place to start, but and I've been to IFM and I've lectured to IFM on all topics, but that doesn't mean that every IFM member heard that talk.

[00:36:02]>> That is true.

[00:36:03]>> Right. So, >> no, that's why I'm not saying I I I don't think IFM oral. think your suggestions are better. I was just saying that it's a great >> It is a great place to start and and many IFM doctors are now getting interested in oral systemic health.

[00:36:18]>> Yeah, it's kind of we're kind of kind of late on that. I just I just little bit late. I just started understanding it. I would say in the past two years a little late on it.

[00:36:27]>> Yeah.

[00:36:27]>> Um so, >> yay. You're learning it and you're learn change the trajectory of your patients.

[00:36:34]>> We're making that's our medical disruptors together. I love this so much. Dr. Ellie Campbell, thank you so much for being here.

[00:36:40]>> You're so welcome.

[00:36:41]>> Thanks.

[00:36:42]>> Well, that's another episode of the medical disruptor, and this is what disruption actually looks like. Not blaming clinicians, not dismissing patients, but exposing the limits of the system, and refusing to stop the conversation there. This community exists because too many people were told they were fine when they weren't. Here, you're allowed to ask questions. You're allowed to challenge assumptions, and you don't have to choose between science and skepticism. If you want tools you can actually use, head to medicaldisrupter.com.

[00:37:08]You can search any topic and find the episode with the information that you need. You'll also find the book, practical PDFs, and my newsletter where we break down what the system does well, where it fails, and how to navigate care without losing your mind. Until then, keep asking questions, keep asking for more, and keep disrupting.