Full Episode on POSH @ Workplace

Ajouté : 2026-05-23

[00:00:08]In a world full of noise, we believe leadership starts with listening. Listen to leaders is a talent sync initiative created to help students, professionals, and future ready leaders learn directly from those who've led with clarity, conviction, and courage. At Talent Sync, we don't just focus on skills or roles.

[00:00:36]We focus on building future ready leaders who can think clearly and act responsibly in changing times. This series isn't about quick success stories. It's about real journeys, real choices, and real leadership. Let's begin by listening.

[00:01:05]It's a matter of you know most of the girls do they know their rights.

[00:01:14]>> Why do systems fail?

[00:01:19]>> See problem doesn't come doesn't happen overnight.

[00:01:28]You know jokes are taken very casually men or woman they have no right to do this telling them some jokes if they are biased if they think that this is a small problem and I can ignore In this episode of listen to leaders, we will explore and understand whether workplaces are really safe or are they just compliant.

[00:02:23]Is posh failing in our country? This is a question majority of the working professionals have in their minds today.

[00:02:30]Posh act came into existence in 2013.

[00:02:34]Ever since there's been a rise in the number of complaints related to workplace sexual harassment. In the last 5 years, there's been a whopping 470% rise in the number of complaints. Adding to this, the recent incident where the early warning signals were reportedly ignored despite complaints being raised in the beginning. Here's the question.

[00:03:02]Is posh just about having a system in place or is it about what happens when somebody believes to trust in that system? In this episode of listen to leaders, we will explore and understand whether workplaces are really safe or are they just compliant.

[00:03:26]To discuss on this we have Rohini Naidu who is a social entrepreneur posh expert adviser founder and director of TGF the girl foundation. Thank you Rohini for being here. It's a pleasure having you here.

[00:03:44]This entire discussion will have four segments. Each segment will have a few questions followed by a rapid fire round and followed by a closing questions and closing comments. But before we begin with that would like to just listen in terms of what you're doing right now and why you're doing what you're doing.

[00:04:03]>> First of all, thank you for you know inviting me here. It's a matter of you know uh honor and privilege to you know discuss this such an important and a sensitive topic as you mentioned TGF.

[00:04:17]TGF is the girl foundation where we work on girl rights health and education. So when we talk about girl or women rights you know first of all um we have to understand that most of the girls do they know their rights they know their rights but they're surrounded by silence so that is one thing where I thought I will bridge the gap bridging gap between safety psychological spaces and silence that's so important and that's where my journey started >> I would really appreciate for finding a niche domain in terms of working as a social entrepreneur, the kind of value addition that you're doing is immense.

[00:04:58]Now, talking about Posh, you know, this entire episode is going to deal about Posh and the recent incident that we've seen where early warning signals were ignored. What are what are your thoughts in terms of, you know, the entire uh posh in our country today and how is it shaping up in terms of safeguarding uh the working professionals? When you ask me about the corporate uh you know work workplaces especially most of them go with the compliance okay they believe that just by having a training session an awareness session will help and that's just being on the papers and that's not complete. So this has to be moving ahead in terms of responsibility.

[00:05:42]It should not just remain on the papers.

[00:05:45]One awareness session just for the submission of papers will not help. It will not give safety for people who actually face these kind of issues. So the management the leaders should take very you know they have to take it in a very serious way because it it finally the reputation of the brand matters. you know if they go silently overlooking these things you know in future what happens probably in the short term they might be you know able to um restore some peace but in future it's a matter of their brand which will be you know having a blot. So in this way you know everywhere you know people are getting adjusted you know they feel that you know with silence we can they're overlooking most of the things and uh people also employees also have this uh you know in their heads that okay I cannot really talk about this probably because they have their own reasons they do not have right people to listen to they do not have people who can actually take it from the papers into the right system so So they remain silent. So what happens is the trust is broken.

[00:06:58]So this is where we have to you know um give it a thought is the structure really working well or not.

[00:07:08]>> Absolutely uh very well said in terms of bridging the gap in terms of employees and winning the confidence of the management. Let's start with the first segment where we will talk about posh beyond compliance because majorly it is presumed as just a compliant you know body in the organization.

[00:07:30]>> Yes.

[00:07:31]>> Now if you look at that in several recent cases early warning signals were reportedly ignored by organizations.

[00:07:40]>> Why do systems fail even when complaints are raised? Even when complaints are raised, the leaders ignore. There could be various reasons again as I mentioned before. It could be based on bias or it could be conflict of thoughts or it could be you know favoritism you know there could be many reasons or brand reputation. So considering these things they just ignore certain things. See problem doesn't come doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't become a big problem overnight. It starts somewhere initially and those initial red flags are not considered or not taken into serious consideration and hence someday we will see a bigger thing happening and everywhere there is the news I mean alarming situation happen and that's when people realize oh I have to actually do this posh compliance is mandatory in my system as well they think but they're failing to understand that there are no people who will listen to the employees is there are no people who will take their problems seriously like let's take jokes okay or some WhatsApp chats like you know jokes are taken very casually I mean if it is a body shaming thing or if it is anything jokes I mean are kind of halftruths we know that right absolutely so we do not have any right to do that to the other person or humiliate the other person and which is quite common so whenever we take session We just we keep telling people that be it men or women they have no right to do this. Okay. Sending WhatsApp texts you know unnecessary texts or you know sending them some jokes or content related to that. I mean it's not required. So when it is humiliating someone you know the management should be ready that they should consider all this very seriously. If they are biased, if they think that this is a small problem and I can ignore it, then it'll turn out to become a bigger one.

[00:09:44]>> Absolutely. Now, can we say that Porsh is becoming a checkbox activity in organizations?

[00:09:52]>> Exactly. It is a checkbox as you said.

[00:09:57]Ask me why because as I told you, it is remaining on the papers. They have to submit the papers. They have to show the reports. So awareness session is conducted but after that where is the feedback? What is happening after that?

[00:10:11]Are you actually you know making the place so comfortable for the people to come and explain or tell their you know complaints to you? Who is the right person? Is ICC team trained well to take care of all the problems even if they are very minor. Are they taking it seriously is a question. If it is not then the members of ICC must be trained rigorously. Unless they do that the trust is broken. See there are two words trust and transparency.

[00:10:42]Okay. If there is trust people would love to work with you. If there is transparency they would love to work with you. If their problems are understood and uh you know they're considered and an action is taken care then they'll love to work with you.

[00:10:58]Otherwise once trust is broken you will have no employees probably even if they have they're not transparent with you. So it means that the system has failed.

[00:11:09]>> So what are the biggest blind spots organizations have when they say they are posh compliant?

[00:11:15]>> Organizations say this they think that when complaints are not raised they assume that they are safe which is not correct. And for your information silence is doesn't mean it's safe. It is suppression. So when corporates understand this basic thing, you know, they will know where they have to address the problem and how they have to address the problem. One more important thing I would like to tell is it's not just jokes. It's about exclusion. It's about the tone. These are very important and they ignore them so conveniently that you know the employees do not feel safe at that place. I mean when you're not giving that safety then there is no point. It's not just running after you might be making they might be making great profits but when people are not given importance like the system has failed.

[00:12:09]>> Totally agreed with 10,000 plus cases and raising do you think the system is improving or are employees just becoming more vocal? See the answer awareness has definitely increased no doubt about it.

[00:12:23]But I would like to emphasize that social media, external platforms or al alternate reporting channels all these things are making people very much aware because of the sensitivity or because of the fear they live in that they might lose the job. They are remaining silent.

[00:12:40]So that we have to understand and employees are also less willing to tolerate these days because there is a lot of awareness through various media.

[00:12:50]They understand what is right and what is wrong. Children are taught good touch, bad touch. Employees know what is right, what is wrong, who is looking at them, what in with what intent. They know all that. So all that they are remaining silent. Why? Because they have fear of losing their job.

[00:13:08]So this we have to understand that the organizations you know have to focus more on people rather than making profits that's more important. If people are safe I think you're almost there you know very close to success >> then probably this goes to say though formal mechanism exist employees may still hesitate to escalate >> correct >> because of you know the reasons that you know you've just highlighted. So is fear of retaliation still stronger than the trust within the system?

[00:13:43]>> Of course. Yes.

[00:13:46]Now when you look at the fear and trust, we discussed this before as well.

[00:13:50]There's lot of fear among the employees because there is no guarantee for the jobs for their jobs. If they start talking about these things, who is the right person who will listen to them? As I mentioned earlier also ICC team has to be trained that they have to take care even of the minor and minor problems they should be able to address it. So if they're not there and there is bias in the organization where will the employees go? Where will they go and complain? I mean who is there to listen to them? It's not just you know I give a I raise a complaint and you just listen and then okay we will take care of it.

[00:14:25]That's not the answer. You have to put it on the paper. You have to raise a complaint. You have to call the person who has tormented the other one. I mean all this process is there. When that is not addressed obviously the trust is broken.

[00:14:40]>> True. I totally agree. Are organizations as per you today truly committed to safety or are they just worried about their reputation?

[00:14:49]>> Obviously they are worried about their reputation. It is not just in the organizations but even in families you know what happens is the emotional um turmoil which they go through the person who takes it you know and the reputation what you're talking about everywhere this is there the psychological safety which I was talking about it is there everywhere most of them think about the reputation but they do not think about the psychological turmoil which the person is going through so when he or she is being you or hurt for whatever reason then it is not easy for them to cope up I mean and again work normally in the same place so this is not being addressed at all what I tell repeatedly posh is not just you know a training session it's not just an awareness session it's beyond that and every organization has to understand that it is beyond the training process it is addressing the safety of the people who work with them and that's so important If you learn to address that there is trust with trust there is transparency when there is silence the organizations must understand that there is chaos inside >> absolutely I I totally you know agree with what you've said now let's look at segment two early warning signals and workplace culture what are typical warnings that organization often ignore at workplace >> it's like repeated uh small instance okay which are ignored then gossip start they cannot go and complain. So what they do is they gossip among themselves and small things you know minor things are ignored very very conveniently and then high attrition in specific teams okay that's there then employees you know being not so comfortable in participation in participating or engaging in any work you know the enthusiasm gets low so these are the alerts which the organization has to keep in mind they have to understand that if the employees are behaving in certain manner uh then it is definitely a red flag.

[00:16:55]>> Absolutely. In many cases, issues escalate because initial complaints are not taken seriously.

[00:17:02]Where exactly do you think the breakdown needs to happen? Whether it is HR, whether it's leadership or the system itself.

[00:17:11]>> I think it's entire system. I I can't say like it's just one thing. So when we talk about posh awareness once the awareness session is done what is the feedback we are getting. Second there is this you know leadership failure I can say like what happens is they always try to protect performers okay rather than giving importance to people and their problems. So who is performing well becomes very significant and when it comes to HR you know what happens is they they just dismiss the concerns they just dismissed and posh policy or posh team has to be trained so well that even small smallest things have to be taken into consideration otherwise it it will you know come up with a very big news again. So in order to stop all that right from managers to leaders the it is the responsibility of everybody who is working in the organization to take charge of it.

[00:18:08]>> Rightly said the system at large.

[00:18:10]>> Yes. System at large. Yeah.

[00:18:11]>> What is your perception? How dangerous is a culture where informal complaints are totally dismissed ignored?

[00:18:20]>> I'll give you an instance. uh there was a workplace you know the person who has been humiliating the other person has been very senior in the organization and uh he was tormenting XYZ and when the complaint has been raised you know by a person who has joined the organization very recently he he complained saying that this person is like you know doing so and so to me the problem has been brought onto the table and then the management says after everything is done I have to talking to these people the management says let's leave it here I mean that's a shocker understand like why because he's a senior most person point number one second is he knows because he's a senior he knows everything about the organization point number two is he is you know well known in that particular locality okay he is that you know he has that rowdies along with him he can h threaten he can do anything if the concerned people also take that responsibility take it forward. So these are the things you know which are you know I think are damaging the entire structure. So what happens is these people will have a high hold now they think that they can get away with anything and they will start tormenting the other person in the future. So it's not just once twice and it has been happening and very conveniently the management is ignoring all that. So these are things you know where I feel posh system as a system has failed.

[00:19:53]>> It's hard to believe >> yes >> even at this times that somebody stays silent knows everything about somebody whether it's a senior person or not does not take action but what happens in such cases I believe is silence within the teams is a bigger red flag than the complaints. What do you think of this?

[00:20:15]See I told you like silence itself means that there is something very not normal you know when people are working with encouragement with enthusiasm it means that the system is transparent when someone is scared you know that the news will go out that my boss will come to know that I have actually spoken about him he's being doing this to me or to someone else and but then if I raise this my job will be at threat so her reputation will be at risk So especially when it comes to girls or women they think in these lines their reputation their character assassination will be done. Now the boss will not actually admit it. What does he do? He throws it on the other side. That woman has done this. So there is nothing wrong. So basically I feel there is no gender uh you know sensitization happening in the organizations. So they think that when men do anything it is okay and when a woman does it the same thing it is not okay there as a system you're failing right there's lot of um bias shown even at the gender level in an organization when the person who is doing this is doing wrong but the juniors have no say unfortunately yes and I have seen so many instances like that >> I totally agree on this point. What can organizations do to acknowledge this problem before it becomes a crisis?

[00:21:48]>> As I told you, um, organizations look at the numbers, okay? They look at the benefits, the profits, they look at the seniority. So they do not believe that a senior person can do like this. They do not take it seriously. If a senior person in the organization can stoop down to such a level and even if it does it is okay. We are living in that situation today. So posh is just meant to be on the papers not in practice. That's my say unless the organizations take a serious stand on this. Nothing will change and nothing is going to change. You're not able to give the safe you know environment to your employees. think as a system you have failed.

[00:22:35]>> No. On the contrary, what does a truly safe workplace look like? Whether it's in behavior or in policy.

[00:22:42]>> Obviously, it's in the behavior and policy also. It's not just policy. It's both. So, how is that like you know, how do you think that you know it's working so well? It's not just you don't have any complaints. It means that you're a safe place. No, you're not getting even one complaint then you're a safe place.

[00:23:02]No, there is silence. It means no. When people are ready to open up, when they are ready to willing to come and talk to the concerned team about their problems openly, honestly and then from there on it is taken to the next step and it is taken very seriously only then we understand that they are serious about their people.

[00:23:27]So one awareness session, one complaint and then it is overlooked then it is gone. So we have to understand that when employees are working you know with lot of enthusiasm and when there is lot of transparency when they're able to talk about it voice out about their problems that's that means the organization is successful.

[00:23:48]Be it a small unit, be it a larger unit or a medium size, but when they're happy and transparent, it means that you're giving them safety. They're secure working with you.

[00:23:58]>> Absolutely. It goes without saying that in our country, there's a lot of work organizations need to do in terms of establishing the right culture.

[00:24:09]>> Correct.

[00:24:09]>> Where everyone comes out openly, speaks.

[00:24:12]>> Correct.

[00:24:12]>> Right. And every small concern is also addressed.

[00:24:16]>> Exactly. Let's now begin with the segment three. Yeah. In terms of leadership accountability, what is the biggest mistake leaders make when handling sensitive complaints?

[00:24:25]>> It's a point to ponder. What I feel is it is they know what's happening but they ignore it conveniently. They try to you know settle it in an informal manner. Now most of the cases this happens. Keep it keep it calm like you know or don't make it a big fuss. This these are all common things you know don't make it a big thing I mean take it in a lighter vein these are the common statements which we hear so how is it a normal thing so how is it a very very you know very small thing to ignore when it is costing the emotional safety of a person right be it a man or a woman I repeat it it's the same it could be harassment work harassment. It could be putting pressure on their heads or it could be you know with opposite sex it could be you know cracking jokes unnecessary jokes or asking them for a date and the employees are forced to go out just because they are in a senior level position.

[00:25:33]So where will the girls where will the women go? So they have to blindly oblige to that. So very nasty uh jokes also are you know you just have to you know just overlook that's what is taught even in our families overlook why should safety be overlooked that's my point and at a leadership level these are all trained from the childhood okay and when you are at a managerial level when you're again stepping up you know the ladder you have to become more responsible you have to become more grounded and you should not take your situation or your position as a you know weapon to you know humiliate others. If you stand as a role model your managers will be in the same direction. If they understand that their boss is really thinking in a rightful direction and he's not biased then automatically the managers also will start you know thinking in the same pattern. So that has to be there. You know the leader has to have a leadership quality. Leader is someone who will be a role model for others.

[00:26:44]A leader has to you know stand by on his words. It's not just having an organization with number of people rather he has to stick onto his words and principles. Work ethics are very very important. And if the boss himself if the boss himself is not in the same in the in the right direction everyone will take it for granted and they understand that even their complaints are raised then there is silence and silence is always oppression. So that we have to understand. So why these kind of convenient overlooking so do you do that if it happens to your own family members? No. Right? We take it very seriously. So the same thought you know the same level of discretion that has to be carried out throughout and that's very important.

[00:27:32]>> Can we call this you know that leaders sometimes prioritize business reputation over employee safety. Unfortunately many of the times they do that recent case you know there was a woman who who worked in a very big firm and for no reason she was just removed I mean she was given a pink slip and the reason is nothing she says like you know I just asked raised a question and that's it from next day they said like she's like removed so the employees are not given any opportunity to question so if the person who is in the senior position If he's the one who is a culprit, I think the rest the entire system is gone. So what happens in that situation?

[00:28:17]People don't like to work there. So the switch the continuity will be you know disturbed. So what happens is time and again time and again you have people changing. So what happens you know the system will be disrupted actually in the initial stage maybe you're overlooking certain things but in the future it's a brand reputation. So if I say XYZ this particular organization has these kind of employees and this is how they treat their you know people that word will spread like wildfire. You understand? So what happens is people talk about it.

[00:28:49]Maybe they might be silent for certain period but once they step out they will have all the freedom to talk about it and that spreads and the brand reputation is costing them.

[00:29:02]The leaders have to understand this small difference. you're ignoring but at what cost? Maybe temporarily you are trying to protect your brand but in the long run you're actually you know disturbing it in a larger extent greater extent rather >> can we call this leadership negligence issue >> of course it is and they know everything it is intentional they ignore as I told you before as I mentioned before the numbers are given more importance than people's safety the profits are given more importance than the psychological issues which organization is actually taking a stand and saying that hey I'm standing tall I am protecting my people they're my family we are working as a unit as a team and one person is you know ignored his safety is ignored then the entire unit gets disturbed so it is understood clearly understood that it is negligence of the top-notch people >> and sometimes it is deliberate >> of course it is >> it can get dangerous if It is delicious.

[00:30:07]>> It can get dangerous in a long run.

[00:30:09]Maybe for that short period they might be overlooking and they think that okay these things are quite common and I can you know overlook all these things but in the longer run the brand reputation goes.

[00:30:20]>> So I think as far as leadership accountability is concerned organizations should focus invest time, effort, money on having a right kind of a leader in place.

[00:30:31]>> Yes. Because as you said, if a right kind of a leader is in place, everything else will follow.

[00:30:37]>> Exactly. People follow leaders. That's why they're called leaders. Only when you have certain traits in your personality, people will fall in love with you and they would love to work with you. Unless you are a role model, why would anybody want to?

[00:30:51]>> Totally agree. Moving on to segment four. Why does the IT sector see a disproportionately high number of posh cases?

[00:30:58]>> I don't agree with this. like it's just multis sector which is I don't say it's voice but it is a mix of culture you know and it's it's a flat hierarchy there is awareness in IT sectors there's a lot of awareness about Porsche employees know about it and so the number of cases are also increasing that's one thing so let's understand why this actually happens at a very large numbers in IT sector because their late uh night works okay and the group chat chats or going out for dinners or meetings, the chat groups, the meetings, the slats, whatever it is, you know, they're exposed to a lot and they consider that these jokes can be taken in a lighter way. So that one thing has to be changed and because of all this, you know, the cases increase rapidly.

[00:31:48]>> Absolutely. Is the posh committee truly independent in the organizations?

[00:31:52]>> Yes, it is to an extent. to an extent because there is always you know a hierarchy thing which goes on in every organization. So there you know the managers have control about the scores about the hikes about you know the promotions anything it could be. So that's where you know the reality check has to be done. So the complete control is with the managers in that cases there is always a misuse of power. So does it mean employees trust towards the internal committees as good as seeing them as extension of management?

[00:32:29]>> I don't think that they trust it completely. They just see it as an extension. I mean few corporates you know they take it seriously. Few do not take. So few employees think that it is just for the sake of the paperwork they're doing it. I mean we can clearly understand when we see and talk with employees. I mean it for some people it is like you know going beyond but it is rarity. So I think employees take it as just as you know posh as an extension of their management thing.

[00:33:01]>> True. The system gaps suggest there is a lot of work to be done in terms of having a right balance spreading awareness also having checks and balances to ensure that the workplace is always safe. Now let's go with the rapid fire. Early warning or late reaction?

[00:33:19]>> Early warning.

[00:33:21]>> Reporting or ignoring?

[00:33:22]>> Reporting.

[00:33:23]>> Trust or fear?

[00:33:25]>> Trust.

[00:33:26]>> Safe workplace or safe image?

[00:33:28]>> Safe workplace.

[00:33:30]>> Speak up or stay silent?

[00:33:32]>> Speak up.

[00:33:33]>> Process or people?

[00:33:35]>> People.

[00:33:36]>> Internal committee or independent oversight?

[00:33:38]>> Independent oversight.

[00:33:40]>> Documentation or real action?

[00:33:42]>> Real action.

[00:33:42]>> Awareness or ownership?

[00:33:44]>> Ownership. Leadership intent or leadership action.

[00:33:47]>> Leadership action.

[00:33:48]>> Escalation or suppression?

[00:33:49]>> Escalation.

[00:33:50]>> Listening or liability management?

[00:33:53]>> Listening.

[00:33:54]>> Culture or cover up?

[00:33:55]>> Culture.

[00:33:56]>> Justice or closure?

[00:33:57]>> Justice.

[00:33:59]>> Accountability or excuses?

[00:34:00]>> Accountability.

[00:34:01]>> That was amazing. You've been absolutely unfiltered on this. Thank you so much.

[00:34:06]To summarize and as an actionable items for organizations, I'll be asking a few questions. What is one thing organizations must urgently fix in their posh systems today?

[00:34:20]>> The timely unbiased structure has to be formed. It is not just ending up at the awareness session but rather taking it every small thing into consideration. This has to be fixed immediately.

[00:34:34]>> What would you say to employees whose concerns were ignored once?

[00:34:38]>> Voice out here is not your weapon. But when you speak up, when you learn to address your problems, system will also follow you.

[00:34:45]>> If you could redesign workplace culture in India, what would be your first change?

[00:34:51]>> The first change what I feel is to normalize the discussions, the conversations which happen and let the employees speak, let them voice out and there has to be a system which will be built on accountability, trust and transparency. These are the main foundations or the pidas for any organization to run safely.

[00:35:13]>> You know, as a matter of fact, I also think that the inputs and suggestions that you've given through your answers in this episode should go a long way.

[00:35:24]The organizations must seriously look at not to ignore any such signals which come from employees. Leadership accountability has to increase and the workplace culture has to be set in order right from the word go. Thank you so much for your time Rohini and I wish you all the best.

[00:35:48]>> Thank you so much to you too.

[00:35:50]>> So this was our second episode on Porsche and the changes that are required in workplaces.

[00:35:59]We would certainly want these changes to happen and the workplaces become more favorable and convenient for employees to work rather than just compliant. Till next episode. Take care. Goodbye and thank you.