[AO VIVO] STF DESIGNA MORAES COMO RELATOR DAS AÇÕES CONTRA LEI DA DOSIMETRIA (10/5/2026)

Added: 2026-05-16

[00:00:11][music] M. Good morning, my friends from the Contemporary Resistance TV community.

[00:00:36]Today, May 10, 2026, is Mother's Day. So, before we begin, a happy Mother's Day to all the mothers who are here with us, and let's invite our friends to come and participate in our Sunday morning chat. Today Gilbert is getting a day off for Mother's Day, and here I am, Lina Noronha, trying to fill in for him as much as possible, you know?

[00:01:17]Let's start by wishing a good morning to those who have already arrived. Jair Estevan, Eva Donda, Douglas Rocha de Carvalho, Verônica Ferreira, Fabinho, Marlene Bitencur, good morning to Cléber Paulo, Roberto Campos, Teresa Cristina, everyone's already in high spirits. Beatriz Pechoto, César Augusto, welcome to the program. Cristina Rocha, Maria Madalena, Leda Leão, Flávia Campos, a solid team here at TV Resistência Contemporânea, always very receptive and participatory in the chat. So, before we waste any more time here, let me say good morning to Ana Cecília as well, and let's call our guest over so we can make the most of his presence here.

[00:02:16]So, today we're going to have a professor joining us to talk, uh, it 's Professor Ataná Micônio.

[00:02:28]Welcome, Professor Atanácio, to the good morning segment of TV Resistência Contemporânea.

[00:02:37]Good morning, Lina. Good morning everyone.

[00:02:41][Clearing throat] Good morning to all mothers and good morning to all sons and daughters who no longer have their mothers with them today. Thank you for the invitation. I hope I can live up to the challenge of conversing with you and all of our online users.

[00:03:02]And thank you also to Gilbert, who very generously invited me again.

[00:03:10]Look, César Augusto is speaking here. Someone has been spreading rumors that Gilbert was suspended by the director.

[00:03:18][laughter] Antônio Santiago saying good morning from Fortaleza. Uh, imagine how hot it is there, it was cold here in São Bernardo this morning, you know, Antônio? That's something I haven't seen in a long time.

[00:03:34]But Athanasius, let's talk about what matters here. Gilbert told me that you are an expert in legal sciences and have a course at the State University of Minas Gerais on this subject, as well as a written work on capital, law, and the state. So, I'd like you to tell us a little about it, please.

[00:04:06][snoring] Well, just an observation. I'm not from the legal field; I'm from the social sciences and philosophy, but here at the Federal University of the Quitinhon and Mucuri Valleys, we have some partnerships with UEG, the State University of Minas Gerais, which has a law program here on its Diamantina campus.

[00:04:31][sighing] And [clearing throat] I proposed an extension course with that title, capital, law and labor, precisely to try to show what the centrality of law is in capitalist society.

[00:04:49]What is the role of the State, which actually has three major functions in relation to the capitalist system?

[00:05:03]The State protects, guarantees, and reproduces capital.

[00:05:11]So, the idea is to try to show why the State institutionally guarantees capital.

[00:05:25]For that, I just need to give a brief introduction to show the following.

[00:05:35]Why is it that what we call capitalism historically originated in England and not elsewhere? Why was n't he born in France, Germany, China, India, Central Asia, Russia, Africa, or even the Americas? What happened there that caused a system that became global to also become hegemonic in about 300 or 350 years? There has never been anything like it in the history of mankind.

[00:06:15]In 350 years, one system became hegemonic throughout the world. Why?

[00:06:21]What happened?

[00:06:23]H [sighing] it all starts right in England, because from a certain point in the 17th century, the folks there were already tired of being dependent on the continent.

[00:06:38]There were many wars, in short, [rumbling] and a lot of dependence.

[00:06:44]England, which we call Great Britain, is today made up of three countries: Wales, England, and Scotland.

[00:06:57]The guys decided the following: are we going to continue depending on them, or are we going to create, form, and develop our own autonomy? That's when this group starts producing, starting with the artisans and their families, they begin to produce everything, absolutely everything. They say, "No, we don't want to live like this anymore."

[00:07:27]As this grows, it grows into a network. And as this network grows, so do the demands and the need to produce more.

[00:07:39]There comes a point when the artisans and their families are no longer able to produce what the network itself demands, and each one starts producing something of their own. There comes a point when the limit, including that of production— human production, you know—reaches its limit.

[00:08:01]And then they ask themselves: "What are we going to do? We need to increase production, how do we do that?"

[00:08:07]Well, there's only one way. We need to bring other people to work here and produce. But how can we trust strangers who are going to enter our family's warehouse and produce with the same confidence?

[00:08:25]If they're not family, they're strangers; they don't know our history, they don't know how we live?

[00:08:32]How do we do it? But we need other people.

[00:08:35]We need strangers to work for us.

[00:08:40]As this network grows, that's where the magic happens, the central point that we often forget. There's only one way we can bring in a stranger to work with us, to produce, and trust that they will produce with the same quality and confidence.

[00:09:06]We don't need loyalty. We just need these people, we need guarantees that these people can produce. What was the secret to their success? The contract, we establish a contract with these people.

[00:09:26]We don't need to force anyone, but to the extent that we and they sign a contract, then we have a guarantee, because later we can hold them accountable.

[00:09:39]If they break the contract, we have the right to go after them, right? That's where a guy named Thomas Rob is going to talk about, you know, the Leviathan, the contract, and the state.

[00:09:59]As this network becomes increasingly complex, elaborate, and specialized, this group begins to realize that there's only one way to truly guarantee this contract. They are not the ones who will guarantee it. We need another entity that can legitimize, stamp, and provide security.

[00:10:34]It's the state.

[00:10:39]From then on, everything falls into place. That's why [clearing his throat] in the 10th century and then in the 16th century, what Marx calls the bourgeoisie, because he also praises this revolutionary process, because it is a revolutionary process that will put an end to feudalism.

[00:11:03]The struggle of these people, then, is against the State, mainly against the nobility, against the aristocracy, because this entire group lived and was constituted within feudalism.

[00:11:18]And that is why they begin to fight against the State throughout the 16th century, only to then, in the 19th century, begin to ensure that the State develops mechanisms to guarantee the contract.

[00:11:40]So, the difference from all other forms of social production lies precisely in this, because in enslavement there is no agreement.

[00:11:52]In slavery, there's no contract, right? Nobody sits down to talk to the person who will be enslaved, right? There are no clauses. That's where the concept of law comes in.

[00:12:11]Why?

[00:12:14]When a family of artisans brings a stranger into their production and a contract is signed, the necessary clauses for exploitation are established.

[00:12:35]One thing that most people forget is that there is no such thing as a contract when it 's signed, regardless of whether it's a legally binding contract with notarized signatures or a verbal agreement, right?

[00:12:56]Well, for example, I hire a bricklayer to do some renovations here at home. I don't draw up any contracts, but a contract exists, even if it's informal, let's say. Well, every contract is unequal.

[00:13:17]And when the contract emerges in this system that is still networked, but later transforms into a system, the contract is the formal, institutional legalization of exploitation, because I will hire what is later called a worker into my production.

[00:13:42]I'm not going to give him the conditions.

[00:13:45]and equal. He won't own the business.

[00:13:51]It is from this point, Lina, that we have a fundamental issue, that is, the entire structure of exploitation is based on legalization, and it is the state that grants this legalization.

[00:14:16][snoring] So, [clearing throat] the working class in Europe in the 19th century understood this and began to fight not only to secure better conditions within the contract, they began to fight to end the contract, because only by ending the contract can we establish conditions of equality in what is being produced.

[00:14:53]The State then assumes the historical role of guaranteeing the exploitation.

[00:15:03]But what happens at the turn of the 19th to the 16th century? The state, together with the bourgeoisie, will recognize, bring into the state, and institutionalize the revolutionary struggle against capital, legalizing parties and unions.

[00:15:32]By doing this, the unions that were revolutionary become part of this process.

[00:15:43]And from then on, the struggle of the working class, instead of ending the contract, began to demand better conditions within the contract.

[00:15:56][snoring] And the more you fight against the bourgeoisie to establish better contract conditions, what happens?

[00:16:07]You are perpetuating capitalism.

[00:16:12]So, just one example, we are in a fight to end the 6-for-1 pay scale.

[00:16:23]The 6-for-1 pay scale only exists because there is a contract and the working class accepted it.

[00:16:35]As I said at the beginning, the class struggle has reached another level, another stage, to the extent that the working class has ceased to be radically revolutionary.

[00:16:52]And what did it mean to be radically revolutionary for Marx?

[00:16:57]It was about ending contracts and ending social classes. And you can only end the contract and social classes if you also end the state.

[00:17:08]So we're going to use a 5x2 scale.

[00:17:12]The contract remains in effect.

[00:17:15]We're going for a 4x3 scale. The contract remains in effect. That's where law emerges as an instrument, the necessary tool to establish the terms of a contract.

[00:17:34]Why?

[00:17:36]Why is a contract necessary?

[00:17:40]Because workers sell their labor power, they sell their bodies, their intelligence, their brains for a certain amount of time that will represent a certain amount of money.

[00:17:59]And this can only be done through a contract.

[00:18:03]Nobody leaves home today and lassos a working woman. No need anymore. There's no need to chain up workers anymore so they can be exploited, so we can be exploited, because I also live by selling my labor.

[00:18:22]And as [clearing throat] someone buys my labor power and someone buys labor power and someone sells labor power, an exchange is established.

[00:18:39]An exchange that has value, that is, an exchange that costs, for example, one minimum wage or two or three in this structure of exchange and exchanges of values, because I then become worth something within the market.

[00:19:04]And as I become worth something in the market, I become equal to the things I also buy, because after all, I go to the supermarket after my workday ends and I buy things, just as capitalism buys me, buys my brain, colonizes my intelligence, colonizes my body, and with that, the figure of right is established in the exchange. And how does the law express itself in this whole process through legislation?

[00:19:43]And that's where the political struggle comes in, to establish the terms of the contract. That's why Marx says it in a book he writes, right? Critique of the Critique.

[00:19:56]Critique is a book he wrote together with Engels, and he analyzes the question of law, because I don't know if people know, Marx started in law school, well... Then he dropped out of law school because he realized it wasn't for him and went to Bern to study philosophy. So he had knowledge of the law.

[00:20:25][snoring] And there he's going to say something that's fundamental.

[00:20:30]Capitalist society eliminates privilege and establishes rights.

[00:20:38]What does this mean? If we pay attention, we'll see that capitalists don't destroy the state. They stage coups to overthrow governments, but they don't destroy the state.

[00:20:50]Why? Because they know they need the state to guarantee the contract.

[00:20:55]And the political struggle lies precisely there: to secure a contract with better conditions for the capitalists and the bourgeoisie.

[00:21:06]Well, that's the most important point in politics, in the political struggle, which we can say is the struggle between classes within the contract. For a significant portion of the 20th century, the working class was very well organized at its grassroots level and fought against the bourgeoisie within the state to secure better employment conditions. But everyone is subject to the law. All.

[00:21:41]What we, the working class, have lost or relinquished throughout history is this understanding that fighting against capitalists to secure better conditions within the contract is still a way of maintaining capitalism.

[00:22:10]Any change to the contract, no matter how much it favors and gives the working class the conditions to feel more secure, with higher wages and less working time, the contract remains the same. And when a contract is established—and it's actually any contract, even a rental agreement— any contract in capitalist society establishes inequality.

[00:22:46]It is the recognition of exploitation and the recognition of inequality. It does n't matter if I'm reasonably more favored in the contract than in other categories of workers.

[00:23:04]Why?

[00:23:05]If someone hires me for a salary of, for example, R$100 per day, I'm not just going to produce R$100; I have to produce much more.

[00:23:18]And that's what the contract guarantees. That's what gives legitimacy to the contract.

[00:23:25]And one thing that we've become hostages to in this process is that, ideologically, we've become reproducers of this process, even while pretending to be radical in order to improve our contract.

[00:23:49]Even so, Lina, no matter how much I improve my contract, whoever offers me the contract will always have better conditions. He's going to be the one who controls the game and says, "Do you want to play?"

[00:24:10]Let's play. Beauty.

[00:24:12]But you'll have to sign this contract eventually. It's like that thing that used to happen in our childhood, there was always someone who would get the ball and say, "I'm always going to win."

[00:24:27]Oh, it's no use. You come to the game, but you're going to lose. It's like playing cards, it's like a casino.

[00:24:35]You get there thinking you're incredibly lucky, right? But you [clearing throat] are naive because you believe in luck or believe in some God who will give you something, right?

[00:24:46]That night you'll win a few thousand reais, you'll leave all happy, but it's the house that really wins.

[00:24:57]And so, as this becomes a system, gradually we all lose sight of the scope and depth of this process.

[00:25:11]So, instead of fighting to end the contract, because only then will we truly be free from exploitation. We legalized the exploitation, and the working class became hostage to it. We became hostages to it.

[00:25:35]We don't discuss the contract, we don't discuss its termination.

[00:25:42]Because when I put myself in the position, when I accept the contract, that's where there's a problem, or rather, a very important detail, which is the question of the role of the State.

[00:25:58]In this system, [clearing throat] the first and fundamental role of the State, even before the law, the great potential role of the State is ideological, because it will always say to us, with varying degrees of commitment, look, we are protecting you, you see?

[00:26:25]Rest assured. Because if there is any breach of contract, you have the justice system, which is also a state responsibility.

[00:26:34]Rest assured, fight for more protection within the contract.

[00:26:43]So, everyone in the contract, exactly, everyone in capitalism is protected in some way, and the contract establishes layers of protection.

[00:26:57]So, what is the political role of capitalists?

[00:27:01]It's about fighting politically within the state to secure better contract conditions.

[00:27:08]And what has been the historical role of the working class? The same thing.

[00:27:14]H, but it seems like he never said, it seems like nobody ever said to us like this: "Hey, you're signing a contract, but you know that this contract guarantees, legitimizes, institutionalizes the exploitation."

[00:27:39]So we have no way out because we fight to have a little bit like this, a little bit of gain like this, and even then we get [laughs] we get beaten down. That's it, Lina. And that. And excuse me, but it's very simple.

[00:28:00]It's very simple.

[00:28:03]Marx believed in two revolutions, [clearing his throat] the political revolution and the social revolution, the radical revolution. A political revolution is a revolution where you seize control of the State, right?

[00:28:16]So, the struggle between classes from the end of the 19th century until now has been about controlling the State, because whoever controls the State can better control the contract.

[00:28:33]The other form of revolution that Marx believed in, social revolution, total radical revolution, overthrows everything.

[00:28:43]But now, this way out, as you said, is becoming increasingly unfeasible, increasingly distant, on the limits of the struggle's horizon, because we have the struggle between classes and we have the struggle of classes.

[00:29:06]The class, that is, the bourgeoisie, struggles to maintain itself.

[00:29:12]And the working class also struggles to survive. And the two face off on the state stage, which is the arena. And then everything becomes so, so, so neat and tidy, so perfect, doesn't it? We go to parliament and we discuss the contract issues so politely. With all due respect, honorable representative. With all due respect, honorable senator. That's great.

[00:29:42]But we're keeping the contract.

[00:29:45]We have lost the ability to study, to study what this means. We have been relinquishing our ability to understand this.

[00:29:57]And whose hands did we leave this in?

[00:30:01]in the hands of the State, in the hands of those who operate the law and the legal system. And we ended up leaving that in the hands of a few niche groups.

[00:30:15]And the working class, we, the working class, have been gradually losing out because we stopped studying, right? I founded the Workers' Party (PT) in my city, and later, together with my comrades, I also founded the Brazilian Socialist Party ( PSB).

[00:30:37]Today, if you join any political party or any union, nobody studies anymore.

[00:30:43]Nobody wants to study anymore.

[00:30:45]Nobody can tolerate it anymore. Nobody can stand the theory. It may seem offensive, but when Marx wrote all that work, he was writing for the working class, not for the capitalists.

[00:31:04]But throughout history, capitalists have been smarter than us and have studied Marx's writings more thoroughly than we have.

[00:31:14]The guy who understood Marx the most, you know, in the liberal field, who was from the dictatorship, the guy who understood Marx the most in his field, on the other side, was Delfim Neto. And once, the Folha de São Paulo newspaper asked him: "What do you think of Marx?" And he was completely, he was objective, he said: "Marx is the man."

[00:31:39]And we lost the ability to understand why we are exploited, because exploitation isn't just about that superficial level of time, or more than just time, or the amount of money we receive for being exploited.

[00:31:58]We need to dig deeper to understand that there is a mechanism in place that ensures exploitation.

[00:32:10]Why is it that gradually all models of enslavement have been abandoned, overthrown, and buried? Because it's much better to exploit someone by asking them to sign a contract, is n't it? It's much better, because if that worker were to complain later, it would be the end: "But did you sign the contract?"

[00:32:50]Oh, it's here, it's here.

[00:32:54]I didn't force you to sign anything. You knocked on my company's door and you accepted the conditions, the clauses. Here it is. Oh, you want to fight?

[00:33:07]Okay, then get organized.

[00:33:11]Lina, do you know how many unions there are in Brazil? I have no idea.

[00:33:17]Brazil, proportionally to the number of workers in the workforce and the population, is one of the countries with the highest number of trade unions in the world. There are 13,000 unions.

[00:33:36]13,000 unions. Is it possible to stop Brazil or not? So, the unions are quite weakened, right, professor?

[00:33:52]How can we access your work? Do you have any publications? People are commenting here about how interesting everything you're saying is, making people reflect and rethink, isn't it? or to this whole system of ours here. But we have a time limit here. Do you have a publication that we can access? How can we learn more about your work?

[00:34:27]Well, I prepared a booklet, you know, which is the syllabus and the theoretical content of this course that I started here at UENG last Wednesday. There are four Wednesdays. I sent it to Why did Gilbert invite me again?

[00:34:46]Because I sent him that booklet.

[00:34:50]So, uh, I think maybe it's better, I think he's in a better position to make this booklet available to everyone, you know? on the channel. I think so, in the community.

[00:35:05]In the community, I think, because I work on various aspects.

[00:35:11]First of all, this course shows the structure, what capital is, and how it really works. Then I go to the state, and after the state I enter exactly the realm of law, you know, as the central mechanism.

[00:35:32]bureaucratic, technocratic, administrative aspects of the contract.

[00:35:39]And when I say contract, I don't just mean an employment contract.

[00:35:43]The state somehow manages all contracts, divorces, right? The agreement is that between people who don't have a formal employment contract, it's all verbal, right? So, uh uh, you asked about the exit. The solution is simple, but the way to do it, I think, is something we no longer have on the horizon. We lost our revolutionary capacity because we lost our understanding of what is fundamental in our history, in the contemporary history of the working class. We lost, unfortunately we let it slip from our hands, didn't we? Because confronting capitalism means confronting it radically, not in a moderate way, as if there were a homeopathic treatment for exploitation and inequality. It doesn't exist. Exactly.

[00:36:52]Communism is this: the struggle against the State, against capital.

[00:37:00]And we no longer have that on the horizon.

[00:37:01]We can no longer imagine a society without a state.

[00:37:09]That's the truth, professor.

[00:37:13]We need to ask Gilbert to call more often. Look at all the comments here about how enlightening your speech is, right? And everyone here is learning a lot and drawing their own unpleasant conclusions about our situation.

[00:37:33]No. And, sorry, just a small aside.

[00:37:40]This, this, this is not just a reality, it's a crushing truth.

[00:37:44][clearing throat] Marx knew this throughout his career, he knew there was no other solution.

[00:37:54]So much so that after writing the three volumes of Capital, he planned to write a book solely about the state, but unfortunately he died before he could. But throughout his work, the state is always portrayed in a negative light.

[00:38:13]But we convinced ourselves that we could liberate ourselves by seizing the state and controlling the state, like the capitalists did.

[00:38:23]Look here, professor, Flávia is saying yes, you have to come back. Look, she loved it.

[00:38:30]To come back again, please do.

[00:38:33]Look, here's Fabinho. Excellent class, and only positive comments.

[00:38:40]Professor, we need to wrap this up. I 'm going to ask for your final words so we can welcome our colleague Ivan here, he's already waiting for us.

[00:38:54]Once again, I want to thank you first.

[00:39:00]Oh, you were a great host, you made me feel very comfortable. Thank you so much. I thank Gilbert, and I thank all the internet users, both men and women, who were here with me.

[00:39:15]Well, what I have to say is this: this issue isn't even ideological; it's a rational one, and there's no way around it.

[00:39:28]You can discuss the issues of the contract from the point of view of better conditions for us or better conditions for the capitalists.

[00:39:38]But the contract is not an ideological issue; it exists, period. Either we get rid of it so that everyone can truly be free, autonomous, and happy, or we'll always be trapped within these little, these tiny details, you know? That's the letter in the contract that you need to read more carefully. But today, at least, those of us here know that in any contract you and I sign, there will always be some inequality. It begins with inequality, because the contract is the legalization of inequality.

[00:40:15]And with that, I bid you farewell. Until next time. If possible, I will always be available, and I am immensely grateful for this invitation.

[00:40:28]Sure, everyone here is asking for it, Sueli is excellent, Valéria is wonderful, everyone is already expecting you to come back. And Flávia has a question here, asking if you live in Diamantina. I live in Diamantina because I work here at the Federal University. I'm from Mogi das Cruzes and my family is in Mogi das Cruzes.

[00:40:53]Whenever I can, I go there, but I live in Diamantina.

[00:40:58]Answered. So, Flávia, professor, thank you very much. I stayed quiet here because all I had to do was learn. [laughs] Thank you, you know? Also, thank you very much, have a good Sunday and I hope you can come back soon to continue this class for us, because everyone here is anxious and asking for you to return.

[00:41:26]Thank you.

[00:41:27]Thanks.

[00:41:29]A kiss, see you later.

[00:41:33]And now we welcome our Sunday companion here, our friend Ivan Seixas.

[00:41:42]Good morning, Ivan.

[00:41:45]Good morning, Lina. Good morning, community.

[00:41:47]We're back here to try and shed some light on this world of well-being for you. It's been a while since I've seen you around here.

[00:41:58]So it is. We are here.

[00:42:00]We're here, Ivan, let's get started with the news because things here just don't stop, right? The students here were thrilled with Professor Atanasmo; his class was truly exciting and very informative. We've already started the day with a brilliant lesson here, bringing many reflections for us. Okay, Ivan, to get started, let's talk about the important date we had, shall we?

[00:42:37]That was a reminder of Victory Day, which is May 9th, and yesterday we couldn't let that pass by.

[00:42:49]We always need to remember the tragedy that was Nazism and the importance of the Soviet Union in the victory we had against that bunch that's now back to torment us and even governing us, right, Ivan? And the article we brought up that came out in the world talks about, look, Putin recalling the Soviet triumph on Victory Day and speaking of inspiration to fight against NATO leadership. It's more relevant than ever to think about that moment, isn't it, Ivan?

[00:43:37]Yes, Victory Day brings to mind something very important, right? We had the first state in the hands of the proletariat, which was the Soviet Union.

[00:43:51]I mean, first Russia and then all the other nations that made up the Quizarist empire, right? which transforms into republics and then integrates into the great homeland called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. And the imperialist aggression, as the Opera Mund article is pointing out, is similar to what we're seeing today, right? NATO's aggression against Russia [clearing throat] is very similar to what happened with the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union. And the Soviet people, led by Joseph Stalin, must always remember this; they cannot forget because they were not simply a people, right? And the state in the hands of the proletariat showed a capacity for transformation, and especially for strengthening socialist values. So, everything that was done against the Nazi empire, right, Russia, now the Soviet Union shows that the proletariat is capable of governing itself and is capable of carrying out scientific, technological and especially social progress in such a strong way that it defeated the greatest war machine ever seen up to that moment. That was the time when Adolf Hitler's army was in power, right? So, this thing is very important, symbolic, and different from what Western nations call a world war, when in reality it was an imperialist war waged by one of the imperialist powers, which was Nazi Germany, against the others.

[00:45:56]And the main target was the popular, proletarian, socialist state of the Soviet Union. They wanted to destroy that experiment, which was so successful, right? Both the United States and England, as well as Germany, wanted to destroy it.

[00:46:11]And the Soviet people, led by Stalin, managed to prove that they were capable of confronting that monster and defeating it, right? So, just so you have an idea, Lina, Stalin sends the factories to Siberia for protection, right? Well, I try to be terrible, but here we go.

[00:46:40]Well, he transfers it to Siberia and there he transforms the tractor factories into tank factories, using tractor chassis to make light, fast tanks with a very high combat capacity. And that's exactly what happened. After he manages to build a sufficient number of small, fast, and powerful tanks, he starts clearing Europe of the Nazi army, which had tanks that were enormous fortresses, you know, steel fortresses, but they were very slow, right? Then the Soviet tanks come, the T34 comes and starts destroying those Panzer tanks, right, which were the Nazi tanks, and with guerrilla tactics they manage to simply encircle and annihilate the aggressor army, right? Well, the Battle of Stalingrad is such a crucial moment that Zhukov, who was saying "Good morning, dear,"... Zhukov, who was a general, a worker who became a general, he defeated General von Paulus of the Nazis and captured 180,000 Nazi soldiers, right?

[00:48:11]Defeat. And Hitler becomes furious. Then they come sweeping everything away to take Berlin. It wasn't the American army, which was far away, nor the British army, which was also very far away, that took Berlin. It's the Soviet army that takes over, because there's that famous scene, right, with a beautiful photo of a Soviet soldier raising the red flag, what was that hammer doing, on top of the hashtag, right? So, that right there is a prime example and demonstrates that, based on what was being said before, there was no possibility of class reconciliation in Russia; there was simply oppression. So the proletariat seizes power, sweeps the bourgeoisie from power, sweeps away the imperial armed forces, and comes to have an armed force called the Red Army, which is what defeats the Nazi army, okay? It's defeating NATO's army, right? If you look over there, I was watching the victory parade yesterday [clearing throat], uh, the Red Army is still there, intact.

[00:49:33]The symbols of the Red Army, the hammer and sickle, are still in use. They are very proud, Russia today is very proud of its origins given by Lenin, given by Stalin, given by the Red Army, that it is the proletariat that makes the revolution, but the uniformed proletariat, which was sent to die in the First World War, becomes super important. And so they are very proud of the Armed Forces. We here are not proud of that. We, and I'm talking about the entire capitalist West, we're not proud of the armed forces because they're always an aggressive force, even against their own people, right?

[00:50:19]No, they have great admiration and pride in having their army, navy, and air force under popular control, right? I think this is extremely important, [snoring] Ivan, and we really need to talk about this day and this victory, the role of this Russian army, because here we suffer a massacre of American cinema, right? [laughter] And who's trying to convince people that the victory was theirs and look at this Russian army, right?

[00:51:00]Then you see April 30th, which is the day of Vietnam's victory over the defeated American empire. You have those fantastic images of the guys fleeing and throwing helicopters into the sea because there was no way to leave by helicopter. And each helicopter costs millions of dollars, right? That's no small thing. And then, [clearing throat] and here they, uh, are put out like that, a fantastic defeat that little Vietnam gives first to the Japanese empire, then the French, and then the United States. And they manage to wage a prolonged popular war to defeat these empires. And we see how it's possible to achieve this defeat, how it 's possible for the people in arms to defeat.

[00:52:06]We watch the day of victory against Nazism, the day of victory against US imperialism in Vietnam, and we see that they are what Malthus said, paper tigers, right?

[00:52:20]So it's possible. The only thing is that you must not give up on armed struggle, you must not give up on the class struggle against the bourgeoisie, against imperialism. And nowadays, [clearing throat] I've been saying this a lot, our slogans during the fight against the dictatorship were "down with the dictatorship," "out with imperialism," and it has never been more relevant than today. If you look at it exactly like that. And we have to be proud to fight. It's not possible for us [laughs], Daniel, I don't look like that kind of state.

[00:53:01]Perhaps it's in the desire to make a revolution, yes, but I don't physically seem to.

[00:53:08]Actually, I don't know if you know, Lina is my name, uh Ivan was one of Star's codenames, which is also a codename, right, Star, right? His name was Joseph Vissarionovit Dilgativille, Stalin's real name. And my father named me Ivan in honor of one of Stalin's war names, which was Ivan, Coba, or Stalin, right?

[00:53:36]Look [snoring] over there, can you see? Daniel isn't exactly very proud, [laughs] Ivan, and this role of imperialism that you mentioned and this story that we can't give up the armed struggle, which is actually a paper tiger, Cuba is there to show us that too, right? Exactly. Exactly.

[00:54:03]And yesterday was also an important day for those who support the Cuban revolution, like me, because we also remembered the birthday of the great revolutionary Celia Sanchez, who is a pioneering female figure in the women's struggle, sensational and a symbol, a role model for all of us who are in the struggle trying to do something. YOU. [laughs] Oh Lina, I always say, you know, when I give interviews or lectures, the role of women is so important, so very important, not as a decorative figure, I don't respect that, that does n't exist for me, but as an activist. We, in the guerrilla movement, we had traitors, but we didn't have any female traitors.

[00:54:58]Did you know this is true here in Brazil?

[00:55:00]No, I didn't know.

[00:55:02]We had militants who were captured and switched sides, becoming infiltrators within our organizations.

[00:55:14]No woman, they tried, the enemy tried with a woman named Inês Etienio Romeu, my dear friend, companion, he tried to do this. She pretended to accept and defeated the guys. She managed to report everything we had to report about the House of Death, which was done by Inês Etiene Romeu, who is a symbol of a warrior woman who was very tortured and brutalized.

[00:55:47]We had many repentant people who went on television to declare that the dictatorship was good and that we were the terrorists, right? accusing us of being terrorists.

[00:56:01]No woman has ever done that. No women.

[00:56:05]And today, on Mother's Day, and today on Mother's Day, for me, this whole thing about giving presents on Mother's Day is nonsense, you know? There needs to be recognition and respect for women as social beings, right? And I always pay tribute to the widows of our fallen soldiers. These are the real heroines. And now I'll mention a few, okay? Hilda Martins, widow of Commander Jonas, Virgílio Gomes da Silva, who is going to Cuba, lives in Cuba and takes care of her children. They all graduated, they are all revolutionaries.

[00:56:52]Well, to me, that's an example of a fighting woman. And my commander's partner, Dina Carvalho, who also made this effort as a woman, like a she-wolf, protecting her cubs, and they are all here participating in the political life of the country. So, these are the women, right?

[00:57:19]This whole thing about giving someone a flower, giving them a flower, and then mistreating and humiliating them the rest of the year, that doesn't make sense, right? So, for me, today is a very important day to remember these warrior women, women who have something to say, something to show. And as I said, uh, Brazilian women have a very important role. The redemocratization in Brazil begins with Teresinha Zerbini, leading the women's movement for amnesty, along with the women who protested against the high cost of living and the scarcity of resources, which initiated the downfall of the military dictatorship. So these are the women we honor, not by buying a gift and pretending that today is great, only to see them mistreated again tomorrow. This is unacceptable, we cannot accept it. We must praise these warrior women. And within that context, I congratulate you because you are a warrior who defends Cuba, you are here fighting as the warrior you are. I met several women in the armed struggle, and I participated in armed actions alongside them. I have a very strong affection for one of them, Ana Maria Ncinovic. She was an apparently fragile woman, not tall, blonde, beautiful, intelligent, and a very strong warrior. He died fighting against the dictatorship. I have a very strong affection for her because I knew her well, I worked with her on projects. Ah, Elenira Rezende in Araguaia, a Black woman, a guerrilla commander. This is our Celia Santas. Those two that I mentioned, you understand? These are people who add to the world; they didn't come here just to decorate it.

[00:59:22]It's a minor thing. They are incredibly valuable people, aren't they? So, back to Vietnam, right? The person who negotiated the surrender of the United States was a guerrilla commander who was a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam.

[00:59:40]Tib was known as Madame Tibin.

[00:59:44]A fantastic woman. To give you an idea, when the first negotiation meeting took place, you arrive and there's a long table, with the United States at one end. She said, "No, I'll only sit if there's a round table, because nobody sits at the head of the table; whoever sits at the head of the table is in charge," and then she left.

[01:00:08]And the United States bombing Hanoi.

[01:00:10]And she said, "I don't negotiate that way." The next day, the foreigners were there with a round table, nobody sitting at the head, and she started dictating the rules of the conversation, right?

[01:00:24]This is another warrior, Angela Davis.

[01:00:27]Everyone today worships Angela Davis because she is a feminist.

[01:00:32]Before being a feminist, she was a great communist, a revolutionary who was imprisoned, whom the world campaigned to get out of jail, and she never regretted what she did.

[01:00:44]She is very proud to be a Black Panther to this day. He's an extraordinary figure that we should cherish, people like him. People who fight, right? No, it's a table decoration. That doesn't exist for me.

[01:01:01]All my support, I echo your words, and this tribute goes to all those fighting women who have done so much to get us to where we are today. And this nonsense, this talk, and I—I don't—I cite these women because, well, we have to stop this thing of getting into the commercial realm of capitalism, right?

[01:01:34]My mother, for example, is a woman who, not just because she's my mother, but because of everything she did, she held her children when we were captured, she gave us an example of behavior in the face of the enemy, which is the most fantastic thing. My mother, she made life hell for us at the hands of Ustra, the commander of DOICO, she made life hell, she confronted Ustra.

[01:02:04]to the point that she caught the Usta's attention, saying: "Sir, put yourself in the position of an officer in the armed forces, don't speak to a woman like that." And he literally made the Usta run away, didn't he? And she was respected by all the military torturers there because of that. And she was a key figure in my survival, for example, because those guys were going to kill me, and wherever I went, she was visiting me. She spent a year and a half in prison, did you know? My mother and sisters spent a year and a half in prison.

[01:02:41]They were cellmates of Dilma, of Eleonora Menicut, right? She was the Minister for Women. And after they got out of jail, they started trying to save me, because I was in their hands, I didn't have a trial, they could make me disappear whenever they wanted, and they never gave up, right? So, I'm talking about these women out of respect for my mother, you know? And it 's not my mother, but it's the partner, you know, who was my mother. Well, I think we always have to keep that in mind. Well, women are absolutely equal human beings, and I even think they're more valuable than certain men, right? I think that's fundamental for us to always keep in mind when we're together.

[01:03:36]This issue you mentioned about Angela Deves, [clearing throat] it's clear that it's irrelevant to say that she was a communist first and foremost, right?

[01:03:45]Because it's easier for you to appropriate these struggles of [clearing throat] women and fall into this empty identitarianism that disconnects from the class struggle, right? Because that's what he ended up doing. So, you see, you see Angela Davis wasn't a communist. She is, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, the general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States to this day, because she is a brilliant intellectual, a woman of fantastic courage, who confronted the oppressive machine of the United States state and she still hasn't given up the fight. He's someone I admire very, very, very much.

[01:04:34]A sensational figure. Ivan, I have something to tell you, I'll even put a picture here. I don't know if you saw that yesterday we made it another day, another date for us to celebrate, that yesterday here in São Paulo we re-established the José Martim Cultural Association of São Paulo.

[01:05:00]So let's also mark this May 9th as the restart of this work here in the struggle in São Paulo.

[01:05:10]Wow, folks, our people from all political parties, right? There he is, I think that's Igor Grabós, Gaeta from the PDT party who I think is now in the PTB party, right? That they are rebuilding.

[01:05:22]Wow, that's great! And JR too, which I think is a really cool youth and revolutionary fighting group, right, from UP, very good.

[01:05:34]Yes, it's about bringing everyone together in support of the Cuban revolution, isn't it? That's it. That's it. There are people from everywhere, from all places, everything that is movement, everything that is political party. And we're joining forces with this, and on June 14th, on June 14th, I'm going to ask you at Cubanias to do a program in honor of Commander Ernesto Teguelara, which is his birthday. I think that's [laughs] an internationalist figure in itself. That 's really cool.

[01:06:09]Let's go.

[01:06:11]And we'll continue here with our news, which is what we have to discuss. Another important issue we have to bring up today is the case of Thago Ávila, who is another fighter with us in the struggle for internationalism and who suffered atrocities at the hands of Zionism, right? And now he's being released. I don't know if he's already on his way back, what happened there, but he's in the process of being released along with Saife, right?

[01:06:59]No, as far as I know, they're both already in Egypt; they've already escaped the hands of the Zionist Nazis.

[01:07:08]Great. That 's the news right here, look.

[01:07:12]According to what was published on Brasil 247, he was already free and back in the fight for a free Palestine, meaning the struggle continues. Just because he was arbitrarily arrested, kidnapped, and tortured doesn't mean the fight stops, right, Ivan?

[01:07:33]We already know, [clearing throat] no. Thago, he is also an internationalist in defense of the Cuban revolution.

[01:07:42][clearing throat] My partner Silvana, she is the coordinator of the solidarity brigades to Cuba. And one of the years ago, Thiago organized a campaign and a huge number of Brazilians went to Cuba to show solidarity with Cuba, you know, those are the internationalist brigades, right? He is also part of this struggle in solidarity with Cuba. And also Palestine, because as an internationalist he has to be involved in all these causes, right?

[01:08:16][clearing throat][cough] Thankfully they are free. And that's it, the fight continues because we have to remember that there are still many prisoners in Israel. And the massacre of the Palestinian people never stopped, right, Ivan? That's the problem.

[01:08:39]And we can't buy into Trump's narrative that everything is resolved, because that's the idea he's trying to convey, right?

[01:08:47]It's settled for them, but not for us, right?

[01:08:50]That's right, [laughs] simple as that.

[01:08:53]What's good for imperialism isn't good for us. Let's always remember that, right?

[01:08:58]What's good for us isn't necessarily good for them.

[01:09:02]Exactly.

[01:09:04]Ivan, we had one, we're in this fight about ending the 6-for-1 shift schedule, which you even commented on and a video of a little girl talking about her mother's situation, very emotional, went viral the other day.

[01:09:24]And this was news we had the other day, because a little girl, in a very moving way, actually shows, you know, what it's like for her to have an absent mother, because she has to work, and she talks about her mother struggling, right? So, uh, the news that came out on DCM, let me put it here, I'm trying to find the video of the little girl. [clearing throat] And, the news that came out on DCM is exactly that. There's even a cartoon there, look. The mother and father turned off the two children's voices again, right? It's all due to the six-to-one scale.

[01:10:13]And the parents are exhausted, right? What attention can they give to their children if they are completely swallowed up by this inhumane work schedule where people live in slavery? That's not what we actually see. So, it's a little girl of 9 years old, look, she spontaneously showed up talking about her mother, that her mother was a warrior, right? who goes out to support her children. Here's the video of the little girl, let me put it on, it's short, right?

[01:10:55]My mother, she's very hardworking, she works alone, she's a single mother and takes care of me and my sister [snoring] and she 's willing to work from 5 am and get home at 3. She works in events and she's working at an event today, so she'll also be arriving late. She didn't have time to watch me, but I agree that my grandmother will be there as a witness to see that I'm saying this for her, and my mother gets emotional, right?

[01:11:22][snoring] My mother, she is very strong and hardworking. Do n't be like that, okay? I'm sure, [snoring] I'm sure she's very proud of you.

[01:11:38]Thanks.

[01:11:39]You end up wanting to be with her every day, right? She works very hard.

[01:11:43]Congratulations, my love!

[01:11:46]And Maria Luía, stay here with me, okay? The little note will be lovely for your mom.

[01:11:54]Yes, that's the reality for the Brazilian people, isn't it? AND. And that's how the struggle of the working class goes, right? If you look at it with today's perspective, you're saying, "Ah, a 6 to 1 scale." But the origin of the working class, the struggle was to have at least one day of rest and a certain number of working hours per day to be able to survive, right? Because in the beginning, capitalism meant 14, 15, 16 hours a day of exploitation of the workforce, based on struggle.

[01:12:45]Work, Ivan, right? And now there are people wanting you to come back.

[01:12:50][laughter] Yeah, but that's because they really are Nazis. To me, they are fascists, and they think they are superior. It's almost like working-class inferiority; you have to work, that's for sure. That's not how it works, is it? No, it ca n't be. And we cannot accept that.

[01:13:04]If it weren't for the struggle of the unions, Lina, this is very important. If it weren't for the struggle of the unions, the working class would be working 7, 14, 15, 16 hours a day. Look what that [clearing throat] demented fascist from Argentina did. The legislation has changed, and now it's work paid with food, not even with money, right?

[01:13:32]What Milei is doing there is a huge step backwards. So, we have a history of struggle to get to this six on a scale of 6. And this scale of 61 [clearing throat] is a temporary fix for what it was before. And what the working class wants, needs, and desires is a system within, still within capitalism, a system that has, uh, at least 5 days off so they can rest until the weekend with their family, to recover their strength and everything else, but it's not normal to have this work schedule that drains all the strength from people and then replaces them, puts another one in. That doesn't exist, it's not a replacement part, right? So if you look there, you know, at those prejudices that guys have regarding women, and regarding children, it's based on capitalist exploitation, because the man, the worker back then, was seen as the guy who carries heavy loads. And women supposedly did n't have the same strength, which is why they are considered the weaker sex. The weaker sex, so they can pay less, because women work in factories just like me. I worked in factories, just look at these photos I took inside the factories where I worked.

[01:15:04]Well, women used to do the same things as men, with no difference, especially now with technology and machinery, right? But women were considered the weaker sex, so it was justified to pay them half of what men earned, which was already a pittance. And the children had nowhere to stay, they stayed there under the machines working together and earning half of what the woman earned, which was half of what the man earned, which was a paltry salary. So that's the basis of prejudice, it's the justification for exploitation. We can't forget about this issue, can we? And the woman plays the exact same role as the man in the factory, without adding or subtracting anything. The very same thing that this delinquent Zema wants to do to children is decriminalize child labor, which is a crime, a crime. Children have the right to study, to graduate, and then to work. They don't even want people to study; they want the working class to be used as beasts of burden.

[01:16:15]That's the view of those fascists, right, like Zema, for example. So, we have to fight for the 6-to- 1 work schedule, then to overturn it and implement a 40-hour or 36-hour schedule, like the advanced capitalist countries do. And nothing fell, because they realized they couldn't exhaust the workforce in that way, right?

[01:16:43]So, we have to fight, we have to strengthen this fight and advance a little more so that we can have more dignity for the working class.

[01:16:55]Yes, and many people forget, right Ivan, that every small right that workers have is the result of struggle, because nothing comes for free here, nothing, nothing, nothing, right? Every little thing we achieve is through hard work. Even so, we lose, suddenly we lose something. We've lost so much in recent years, and now we have to fight again to get what we want. And the state, the state isn't there to be impartial. The state is part of the machine. It is the bureaucratic machine used to maintain and deepen capitalist exploitation. And he gives up something, but only after a struggle. If the working class doesn't fight back, they won't give it to them. That doesn't exist. All of these achievements are hard-won. Ah, I work 8 hours a day, and then there's the possibility of 2 hours of overtime. It's about having those rest hours, having a minimum wage, having a minimum wage, folks, it's not because it's the lowest, it's because before they paid less than that. And there was a struggle of the working class, a general strike of 1917 here in Brazil, it paralyzed the whole of Brazil, there was no internet, no telephone, nothing. They brought Brazil to a standstill for 30 days and achieved the 8-hour workday. The same goes for the 13th-month salary. It is an achievement of the working class from 1962. It was not given by the bourgeoisie. That doesn't exist. The bourgeoisie gives nothing. She is a fighter, a very hard-fought battle that leads to victory.

[01:18:50]So this idea that the state is impartial, that it's there to solve problems between classes, that's a lie. The state is the apparatus of capitalist exploitation and the legalization of that exploitation. That is why we communists advocate the destruction of the bourgeois state and the construction of a classless society and, therefore, a stateless society. That's the difference we have. And there is no intermediate period, it is a revolution that overthrows the bourgeoisie.

[01:19:28]The bourgeoisie not only doesn't give, but is constantly trying to take away, is n't it? Since we've already experienced this erosion of rights in recent years, now in my category the union is in a fierce struggle because the employers' union came with a proposal to give zero raises, remove rights, remove the right to health insurance, end the collective bargaining agreement, and it's just one thing after another, there's no limit for them, right? And what they want to take away... They want to take back what was achieved, because it didn't exist before.

[01:20:06]Yes. I do n't know what your grade level is, but which teacher was it with?

[01:20:11]Ready. So, they hate teachers, [laughs] because to them it's a cultured, educated, questioning working class. That's the big question.

[01:20:27]So, you take the book by Golberri do Couto e Silva, who is the ideologue of the Brazilian right, and he says in no uncertain terms: "Teachers are dangerous because they instill critical thinking in people. They think, it's no coincidence that those imbeciles in the streets calling for a coup d'état were saying what? Except Paulo Freire, right? And [laughter] and they think the Earth is round.

[01:20:55]Ignorant people think that because they think it's good, right? Being absolutely ignorant means not questioning, right? They don't question. Now, the current stupidity is this business of defending the contaminated detergent, which the health inspector removed, and people have already turned it into an ideological issue and are going to use it like that.

[01:21:21][laughter] Yeah, you can drink the detergent if you want, but not for us [laughter] look at that absurdity, sister. Yeah, but let's bring up the national news that blew up this week.

[01:21:40]Oh, the bombshell of the last few days was this beauty of Nogueira [laughter] who fell." He's in disgrace. There's no going back now. That's not what came out in the article here on the forum; it's about Ciro Nogueira's trips paid for by Vorcaro, according to the Federal Police. Look, besides receiving bribes in the form of monthly payments—it appeared he received between 300,000 and 500,000 per month, right—to defend the master's interests in Congress, Ciro Nogueira was also allegedly rewarded with luxury trips by Daniel.

[01:22:24]Ciro is a real character, isn't he, Ivan? Now, nobody knows Ciro, nobody is his friend, nobody has any involvement with him. Impressive, is n't it?

[01:22:37]Imagine earning 300,000, 500,000 per month to do what? Obviously, Vorcaro, according to what the Federal Police found, drafted a bill, gave it to him to approve, and it was approved as Vorcaro's bank had proposed. So, his property was Ciro Nogueira, who was, incidentally, the... The ideal vice-presidential candidate for the " Rachadinha" [a political corruption scheme], right? That was the big question. He has a statement saying that the ideal candidate for me as vice-president is Ciro Nogueira. Now, nobody knows this guy. I don't even know who this person is, right?

[01:23:27]It's hard to get out of this now, huh, Iv.

[01:23:29]Yeah.

[01:23:32]And the scandal is going to catch a lot of people, right? Who knows, maybe it'll even reach this little Bolsonaro guy. I'm hopeful. Maybe it'll reach him.

[01:23:45]I see a three-peso note behind you there with the image of the T of Cel.

[01:23:53][laughs] When I was in Cuba, that note was highly sought after. The São Paulo bank workers' union printed a bonus because they were on strike, and then the board was dismissed, and they needed to raise funds. They printed this three-peso note as a bonus, right? On the back, it explained that it was a bonus and so on. Wow, people were constantly buying this reproduction of the three- peso note with the face of the T of Cel.

[01:24:27]And I also have a little coin, that coin that Che Guevara has on it, and that the Cubans made, turned into a keychain, and I use that keychain with my car keys. [laughs] Okay, Ivan, let's go to our last news item, our time here is almost up. Morais/ immediate application of the dosimetry law.

[01:24:57]That was the other bombshell of the week, right?

[01:25:00]This issue of the approval in Congress, or rather, the overturning of Lula's veto to release this coup plotter, and especially the chief scoundrel, right? And Morais is holding it back because he's already saying that this needs to be analyzed because it's unconstitutional, right? Will we be able to stop this mess of releasing all the criminals?

[01:25:35][snoring] Look, [clearing throat] this dosimetry law, that's an outrage, right? Judge Alfredo Atier showed that. It's unconstitutional.

[01:25:49]First of all, they overturned the veto of... Lula, overturning part of the veto, if there is no veto, it's either the entire Lula veto or none at all. They only took the little bit that interested them. And if you take the law that was approved a short time ago, the law to combat factions, criminal organizations, they cannot be pardoned.

[01:26:18]That's the law that was approved by Congress itself. Now, the delinquent Bolsonaro is in jail for what? Organized crime.

[01:26:29]Remember that? It's one of the charges.

[01:26:32]So, there's no way to lower his sentence because he's the head of this gang that approved it. That doesn't exist, right?

[01:26:43]João dos Santos calling Adriano Diogo. Adriano is a very fine person, my prison mate and my friend to this day. But this thing that I think is very important is that it's not Alexandre de Moraes. If it fell into the hands of Dino, Flávio Dino, or anyone else, Carmen Lúcia would have the same understanding because it's unconstitutional.

[01:27:13]How do you... Forgive, how can you forgive an attack against the democratic rule of law? How can you forgive, lessen the punishment of someone who attacked the democratic rule of law? That doesn't exist. And they approved it because they have a majority. That's why, Lina, it's very important that we get one thing straight. This year there are elections and we need, not just to vote for Lula, but to vote for a Congress that has progressive senators and representatives, to sweep out of the National Congress these people who made this circus. This is a circus.

[01:28:02]They approve anything, then celebrate as if it were a World Cup goal. It's a disgrace.

[01:28:09]So, understand that we have a very important task this year to elect a progressive, strong National Congress that blocks this kind of thing. No, we cannot approve an unconstitutional law. This is truly shameful. And besides, if these people remain in Congress, if they win the presidency, God help us. Free. It's a coup they want, right? They never gave up on this coup, did they? That's why they want forgiveness for the coup plotters, because for them, the coup is necessary. They continue to be coup plotters, they have no shame in having committed this barbarity, attempting a coup, and if given the opportunity, they will try again. [laughs] No. And we have to understand one thing, it 's not just the coup. The coup is the coup, it's a dirty trick, it's a dirty game. But what comes after the coup is a dictatorship.

[01:29:19]Don't forget, '64, April 1st, '64 was the day of the coup. Okay? Ah, the coup now. And the following day, the 2nd, the 3rd and onwards, it was torture, murder, withdrawal of rights. The army forces and the forces of the fascist groups invaded all the unions, looted the unions, stole the [clearing throat] money and documents from the unions and put in interveners and began to implement a policy of withdrawal of rights. Right. The first thing they did was remove job security and put in this thing called a severance fund, which everyone's now saying: "Oh no, we have to preserve the severance fund." The severance fund was already a step backward because it allows them to remove job security, pay a pittance as compensation, and that's it.

[01:30:22]Now I want to remove that too, that is, the step backward on top of the step backward. So it's not a coup d'état, it's just the dictatorship they're going to implement. And the dictatorship they're going to implement, let's always remember, is torture, murder, the removal of rights, censorship, and the degradation of the country. There's no way to say that's just a coup. The coup is a coup. Now, the coup serves to install a dictatorship, and in this dictatorship, the entire population loses. Including the fools who go there to vandalize, they'll be repressed too, because they'll think they can do anything, and they can't, because dictatorship is not a good thing.

[01:31:07]Remember that, you fools who think... That's the point. So, it has to be punished, it has to be contained, and there can't be any leniency.

[01:31:21]So, it's the 1988 Constitution, their objective is to destroy the 1988 Constitution, to undo it, because it's a participatory Constitution, a Constitution with collective rights.

[01:31:38]Remember, it was in the 1988 Constitution that ombudsman offices and public defender offices were established, because before, if you had money, you could just pay a lawyer and that was it.

[01:31:55]And then the Constitution, which is a very advanced constitution, says: "No, there has to be a state body with public defenders, which is the Public Defender's Office." That's it. Ombudsman offices with investigative powers. So, these things are very important, and everything else, right, labor rights, civil rights, rights, will disappear with this coup, because the dictatorship will destroy all of that.

[01:32:25]So, we can't pretend it's just a small part. No, it's not. It's everything. It's the coup, the dictatorship... The withdrawal of rights and, above all, the loss of national sovereignty. Because the coup comes as a way to serve the interests of United States imperialism. Or do you, who are watching us, think that the delinquent's declaration of love for Trump, "I love you," is in vain? That's it. Yes, it's pathetic, it's ridiculous, but that's it. It's submission to imperialist interests.

[01:33:01]Period.

[01:33:03]Of course. And if that rope had managed to pull off the coup, we would already be in deep trouble right now.

[01:33:13]No, we would have been hanged in a public square. All of us who fought against him would be here, no way [clearing throat].

[01:33:21]If we managed to escape, that's great.

[01:33:24]Ivan, we've already exceeded our time here, but the subject is very long, you know, and we get carried away, but we need to finish. So I want to thank the people in the chat here, it's wonderful. I can't handle so many comments. I put what I could on the screen, it's impossible to talk to everyone. Gilbert does this better than me, but I can't handle it. [laughs] And I want to thank you. And once again, such a good conversation here on TV Resistência Contemporânea. So, I'll leave your farewells to you now.

[01:34:07]No, I appreciate the invitation to come here and talk to the community, especially to you, Lina. But, uh, this channel needs to be strengthened.

[01:34:18]Progressive channels, like this one, fulfill a very important task, which is to counteract the disinformation that exists in these large networks, which are not information networks, they are disinformation networks.

[01:34:39]So, these channels here leak this manipulative disinformation power. So it needs to be strengthened, that's why there's a donation link there, contact us at [email protected].

[01:34:54]Uh, make your donation, like a comrade I saw who made a donation.

[01:35:01]Uh, make a donation, spread this channel so more people can participate, because it's very important, okay? I think that's Macris. Uh, it 's Macris, it's very important to strengthen, okay, to strengthen the channel here. TVRC, let's strengthen Dona Lina Noronha's Cubanias program, which does very important work defending the Cuban revolution. I have great affection for your program because someone simply has to defend it, and you have one starting with the name Cubanias to show that we are on the side of the Cuban revolution, which dared to fight, dared to win, and won, and to this day is a thorn in the side of imperialism.

[01:35:55]Thank you all very much. The program turned 5 years old this week, Ivan.

[01:35:59]So it should be 10, 15, 20 years old.

[01:36:03]Very good, very good indeed. Okay, congratulations on the work.

[01:36:08]Thank you very much to everyone who watched us, and until next time, okay?

[01:36:14]Bye. Thanks, Ivan. Kisses to Silvana.

[01:36:18]Bye, everyone. See you. See you Monday with Cubanias.