Christian Tries to Fill the Gapes with God (feat @mezzo_ws)

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]Eric, are you a Christian? I mean, are you a believer in God?

[00:00:03]>> Yes, I am.

[00:00:04]>> Awesome. We are going to help you with that. Are you ready to come over to atheism? Try it out. Why not? It's factually amazing.

[00:00:12]>> No, it's that's in emptiness. I I see it as emptiness. I see it as uh >> hopelessness.

[00:00:18]>> How so? What What are you talking about?

[00:00:20]In what way?

[00:00:20]>> Well, I believe we were here we are here for a purpose.

[00:00:24]>> What's that?

[00:00:24]>> Um I don't believe we're here by accident.

[00:00:26]>> What's the purpose? And >> we're not really sure.

[00:00:30]>> Oh, >> we're not really sure.

[00:00:32]>> Thanks for thanks for playing. I mean, look, this is the problem, right? If you can't offer any sort of substance, then we're doing the same thing. And under atheism, we don't pretend. That's the great thing. We don't pretend there's a purpose. We choose our purpose and we go on an adventure.

[00:00:49]>> You seem to you seem to think that somehow Christianity is like giving up just like every fun thing you can do. I mean, I didn't know you were a Christian, but okay, now we know. I don't think it's giving up every fun thing. I know there's a lot of fun things you can do under Christianity.

[00:01:04]>> Um, yeah, under certain denominations, anal. That's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is like actually having meaning and purpose in your life. And the reality is, like you said, you don't know what the purpose or meaning is. You have to explore it and and figure it out the same way I do. So Christianity isn't offering anything here.

[00:01:27]>> Well, the thing is you can't totally know everything. I mean, you could affect somebody's life and that you not even know it, but they do.

[00:01:34]>> That's what we that's what we can do.

[00:01:36]Yeah. That's what we believe as well. Of course, we we change people's lives. We engage with people and we move them and we like I hope I'm moving the needle doing these lives. So, I don't need Christianity for that. I don't need a God for that. I'm doing that. And that's and by the way, that's what you're doing, Eric. That's what we do it as people because there is no God.

[00:01:58]>> Well, let me ask you something. What What if you're wrong? Uh what if there what if there is? And and then you've convinced a lot of people to not believe and then that's kind of like you've multiplied the problem, you know? Have you ever think about that?

[00:02:13]>> I I don't think about it. I'm so confident that as far as like the Christian God, like the threatening God, I I'm I'm confident that God doesn't exist, like there's nothing to worry about. But what if you're wrong and it's the Muslim God? What do you do with that?

[00:02:32]>> Well, I don't what I think is I'm put on this earth right here in a Christian country, >> right? So, I mean, that's what I've been kind of directed at. And you know, I mean, I believe I don't believe in in Allah. I believe in Jehovah, >> right?

[00:02:50]>> And you know, I mean, that's uh that that is what my heart tells me. And uh I believe in Jesus.

[00:02:56]>> Yeah. See, but but but what if Allah is the real one though?

[00:03:00]>> Well Well, hold on a minute. Hold on.

[00:03:02]>> Now, from what you know of Jesus? Okay.

[00:03:05]I mean, would you say he's a good example to follow as a person?

[00:03:09]I think that like it's a thin sort of superficially good example to follow.

[00:03:14]Like there's a few platitudes and then I think there's a lot of useless stuff that doesn't really apply to anyone and then there's some bad ideas. So I would say like uh holistically I I would say kind of like neutral to poor.

[00:03:30]Well, I mean he I mean he everything that we value about people and society the good things uh you know charity helping people uh you know is personified by Christ. Okay. Sacrifice.

[00:03:43]>> Yeah. If we were going to go with this vague idea of sacrifice obviously not unalivvening yourself like obviously you wouldn't want to die like that's not real. Like that's that's nonsense. Yeah.

[00:03:56]We're not going to do that. So, we don't really want to like engage with what Jesus actually did or actually says because what he says is to love the way he loves and the way he loved was to die for us. And so, that message is very clear. So, we don't want to like lose our lives for this guy or for other people necessarily, but we do want to like maybe sacrifice things for other people we care about or sometimes for the greater good or sometimes we just want to sacrifice a little bit of pleasure now so that we can have more pleasure later, right? Like we can do something that's going to be more substantive and and be better. If if that's what you mean by sacrifice, I can get on board, but I don't need Jesus for that. And he's kind of like an extreme, not applicable version of sacrifice to me. So, so as an atheist, I can engage with the idea of sacrifice and even self-sacrifice even for something good, but I don't have to associate it with Jesus. And if I try to, it goes off the rails. It doesn't really work. Does that make sense? Would you do you consider yourself a secular humanist?

[00:05:06]>> I I I like it. I don't know enough about it, like I've never read the manifesto, but I do love the idea of engaging with humanity for humanity's sake and trying to reduce harm and promote thriving in amongst humans, which is what goes to the whole planet because we need the ecosystem, right? So, we need everything to be thriving. C >> can I asked you what denominations you grew up in when you were a believer?

[00:05:37]>> Uh, the worst one. I was not I was non-denominational, but we were very uh fundamentalist, evangelical, conservative, whatever you want to call it. It was the most Christian form of Christian.

[00:05:49]>> So, okay. Um, talked about a lot. They talked about hell a lot. I guess >> there was some hell to be honest with you, Eric. There wasn't a lot of fear of hell sort of thing. Like I was a once- saved always saved type of Christian. So I said the sinner's prayer when I was five and I believed that I was saved. So even if I was like, "Oh, I'm I like I'm not living the right way. I don't go to church anymore." I was like, "Ah, once saved, always saved." Like I And my mom would say, "That's fire insurance.

[00:06:19]That's head knowledge, not heart knowledge." Like I heard all that stuff.

[00:06:21]But there was never a time where it was just like if you don't do this XYZ or you're not doing the right you're going to go to hell. So I didn't have a lot of fear of hell for me. I know a lot of people do but we didn't get that.

[00:06:33]>> Uh were were you forcefed like going three times a week? You know that >> Oh yeah.

[00:06:39]>> Yeah.

[00:06:40]>> We woke up every morning and read the Bible.

[00:06:43]>> I read I watched I watched preaching videos for fun.

[00:06:49]apologetic preaching videos for fun at home.

[00:06:52]>> Yeah. So, did you So, you did did you ever just visit other denominations and see how they believed?

[00:06:58]>> Um, I didn't I I I mean, you know, you you go to a Lutheran church or I dated a girl that was Catholic, so I went to a mass a couple times. They feel different, so you're just like, "Oh, you know, I went to a really, really boring Dutch reform church one time, and the organist sucked so bad. They like couldn't stay in tune. Like it was in tune. Oh my good. And I'm Dutch, but we were never Dutch reformed. But like it was it was just like they cuz >> it just makes it sound more boring. Like the word Dutch makes it reform even more boring somehow.

[00:07:34]>> The organist was like 150 years old and she was just like the timing was way off. But like you can't even have a beat, right? They don't want a beat because beats are evil. It's of the devil. So it's just like And everyone's like, "Holy, holy, holy."

[00:07:58]>> Yeah.

[00:07:59]>> Lord God Almighty Almighty.

[00:08:04]>> There's always like we always had an elder couple and and the guy would sing low and flat and the and the older woman would sing too high and sharp. They were always both the opposite ways and so loud. So loud. But I wanted to say um as far as visiting other churches, I was raised Baptist and I remember like learning about other churches and we had in our small town in Eastern Washington a culty church called Living Faith Fellowship. I'm going to look up and see if they're still there. And it was like, oh, don't go to that church. That church does it wrong. What do they do? And they were kind of cool. like they home school like they had a school built in and I think they were armed but it was also that they did like speaking in tongues or something and so >> Oh yeah sounds >> and so a little bit maybe and so we were just like [laughter] oh my god they they like they just say silly things that's so weird anyways hallelujah el [laughter] shai and I'll take some of these crackers and wine now and like it feels so normal we're doing the exact same crazy stuff >> yeah when I was in the Catholic church in the priest comes down like with the thing with the smoke coming out of the little egg thing that he's carrying or whatever. You're just like, "This is fucked."

[00:09:19]>> But yet, we're doing the same weird [ __ ] at our cult version of the cult. It's It's all the same.

[00:09:25]>> We're all standing in circles holding a candle on Christmas. A circle and holding candles. It's [clears throat] so culty.

[00:09:32]>> Yeah.

[00:09:32]>> Eric, like you can see that like you're still in it. Are do you go to church or are you at least like out of the cult that much? I'm no I'm I'm kind of in and out of church. It's been a It's been a while since I've been at church. Okay.

[00:09:45]>> Um and I I don't necessarily believe one has to be a regular attender of church.

[00:09:51]>> Of course not.

[00:09:52]>> Um I have I pray >> I study the Bible.

[00:09:55]>> Um I argue with atheists, [laughter] you know. I mean, and I found I find that uh you know, engaging uh in people in in conversations is uh spiritually feeding me. But Eric, that's just fun. And you can do that as an atheist. It's it's a it's a rip roaring great time.

[00:10:14]>> Unless you're on the right side, you get to win more. It's really more fun.

[00:10:17]>> But did you notice, Eric, did you notice at the beginning of this conversation, we started chatting and then I had a point in rebuttal and you dropped it because you had nothing to offer. We were talking about purpose, remember?

[00:10:29]And you kind of like had nothing to offer. That's what the religion is. and and we could do like beat for beat every single thing you think Christianity offers and you will come up skint will be nothing to offer from your side of the the coin. I will I will say this on the flip side to counter is that it sounds like a lot of people a lot of people that I've known that have turned away from the faith had really bad experiences growing up in the church and a lot of times they were force-fed and just you know just >> I think somebody in the chat uh realized you were circling the drain. Listen to the lyrics of this song.

[00:11:09]Did you [music] just cut the church first?

[00:11:14]You're a broken record. [music] >> The argument is church hurts. You're hurting inside. [music] It's not that the Bible is just one big lie.

[00:11:25]>> Are you [music] really going to lose your soul? Cuz a few million Christians are horrible. [music] Every point you try to make us loving Jesus makes someone treat you like [ __ ] [music] You want to see my baby incoherence [music] boy? You give me your real reason with me. Word it.

[00:11:53]>> Yeah. I don't have church hurt, Eric. I was just in a cult like you and realized I was duped and now I'm out of the cult.

[00:12:01]You are being as hurt as I was. You should leave the cult, too. I I don't think so because if I were in a cult, I'd be going >> You're still in >> No, I'd be I would be going uh like every every day or every other day or >> This is the fun thing about the cult, right? Like it kind of perpetuates itself in such a way that like you're still in the cult on your own because you have the manual and you still believe it, right? You don't have to attend the It's not true. We just we just Okay. What's true? Like name one of the true things.

[00:12:37]>> One of the true things.

[00:12:40]It's a lot. It's a lot of Look, the Bible is more than a history. [laughter] >> It's so hard.

[00:12:45]>> It's hard to [ __ ] if it's true. Eric name. You ask me as an atheist. Ask me to name one of the true things.

[00:12:56]>> Name a true thing.

[00:12:58]>> Uh music. We actually know how the sound frequencies work and we understand. Name another one. [clears throat] >> Trees. We understand how trees grow and how the leaves come out of the trees and we know how to make them grow strong and fast.

[00:13:11]>> Look at the trees. Classic. Name a third one.

[00:13:14]>> Cars. We've figured out how to make combustible engines and so we're able to drive these cars around and now we've made these electric ones. These are all real things, Eric. I've just named a bunch of real stuff.

[00:13:30]So you have you have Christianity, not one real like I mean you I I jumped in. Do you notice I did three real quick? Can you name one real thing?

[00:13:42]>> You know it says in the Bible every knee will bow. Uh every prophet >> we don't know that that's true. That that's just this claim we need. It's true.

[00:13:51]>> How does a knee bow?

[00:13:53]>> I love that. I love that you brought that up. I thought of that the other day. I was just like how does a knee bow? Like people say bow the knee but it's like >> okay will you listen to me? Okay [laughter] so all right at some point in man man's existence right say caveman whatever.

[00:14:10]>> Mhm.

[00:14:10]>> Um somebody had to come up do you believe that religion existed uh before men or somebody made it made just made it up.

[00:14:18]>> I don't think religion existed before thinking people.

[00:14:23]>> Okay.

[00:14:24]>> Like and honestly and Mezo might know more about me. Do you think like prehomoc sapiens there would have been religion? You think that these uh >> I mean >> probably. Yeah, >> there may have been.

[00:14:35]>> Absolutely. We see Neanderthalss doing art.

[00:14:38]>> We don't see that, but we we have evidence that they were having culture, music, art, things like that.

[00:14:44]>> So, it's really possible that other species developed similar thought. Like we don't know for sure, but there like genuinely most likely the case that it predates our exit from Africa. So, Elephants might have it >> occurred when we we were able to communicate with one another and have speech with with one another and communicate right about that.

[00:15:05]>> There may have been. Yeah. I mean, we don't know, but yeah, sure. Why not?

[00:15:09]Why?

[00:15:09]>> Okay. So, do you believe that uh all concepts are original or are they pieces of other things, other concepts that we construct?

[00:15:19]>> I think it makes sense that everything kind of builds on it on each other.

[00:15:22]Every concept is completely original and brand new.

[00:15:26]>> Okay.

[00:15:27]>> So, we have like different takes. Mezo and I have like the exact opposite takes.

[00:15:31]>> Okay. So, so one day you're out you're you're just a prehistoric man and you're out there dealing your feel. You're you're doing the work. You're accepting life as it is. You know, you're trying to survive. And then you uh >> you come up with this idea [clears throat] that there's a guy in the in the clouds.

[00:15:51]Are you um Okay, [clears throat] >> sorry. I'm I'm method.

[00:15:57]>> I'm a method.

[00:15:58]>> Who's going to put laser sunglasses on Joel while he's man? That's so rude.

[00:16:02]That's so rude.

[00:16:03]>> Okay. Well, anyway, so follow me here.

[00:16:07]Okay, I'm trying to be serious or are you going to be okay?

[00:16:10]>> So, a guy comes up and says, "Hey, there's this guy that lives. we can't see him and but he creates everything uh and it causes things to happen.

[00:16:22]>> All right. He So he just comes up with this concept in his head. You know where did that come from? I mean if if if the concept of God never existed before and this guy suddenly think hey >> Eric you just have to like look at how we still use God. It's really simple.

[00:16:39]Like you just look at the sophisticated philosophical mumbo jumbo, the jumping through hoops that people do to try to say that it's a legitimate idea that there's a god. Where does that god reside? Where where is that god located?

[00:16:58]I'll I'll give you a hint. It's in the gapes.

[00:17:01]>> It's in the gaping holes of our knowledge, right? And so that's why they call it god of the gapes. But back in the day, there was way more gaping going on, right? Because we didn't know how lightning worked. We didn't know how farming worked, right? So, there's just so many gapes going on. And they just kept on filling them.

[00:17:25]>> Well, they kept on filling those gapes with God.

[00:17:28]>> Well, why why would why would they do that? Why wouldn't they just accept it like an atheist would?

[00:17:33]>> They were superstitious. We are smarter now. I don't know. We're smarter. we have way more information and we build on that information. So the gape keeps getting smaller and smaller and tighter and tighter until all of a sudden there's not much of a gape anymore and so there's so much more room to be an atheist, right? We're we're the atheists are now around the rim, right? We don't have that massive hole. So >> I was talking to someone. Are you doing God of the Apes right now?

[00:17:59]>> Yep.

[00:18:00]>> Oh, I love this. Okay, sorry. Just wanted to catch up. I'm good.

[00:18:03]>> Yeah. So So that's what ends up happening, Eric. So back then the the whole universe and the world and everything to these people was just this [ __ ] massive gape that they just like crammed God into.

[00:18:19]>> But were they atheists in the beginning?

[00:18:20]>> I don't know.

[00:18:21]>> Were they atheists?

[00:18:22]>> I don't know.

[00:18:23]>> Did they believe in a god?

[00:18:24]>> I don't know.

[00:18:24]>> Before the concept was introduced to them.

[00:18:27]>> I bet that things like like a type of animism came first. Um, and I think like I would guess it was similar like the God idea was similar to Santa Claus. And I really mean this and this is just like pure speculation with no data being >> Well, I have I have some data for that.

[00:18:46]>> Well, I'm No, not not data. I'm saying like as data like I'm a >> No, you I'm saying I'm saying your word data, but I'm pronouncing it correctly.

[00:18:54]I'm saying no data.

[00:18:54]>> Data because No, I'm saying like I'm a data now. And so >> No, I know. But you you were talking about Dada, which to me is a character from Star Trek, and I'm saying it's Dada. Data.

[00:19:06]>> Oh, no. Data is the original daddy for sure. Like he's my metal man. But >> Zaddy.

[00:19:13]>> Okay. I don't know what the future calls it, but but as a dad, I would like tell my kids something like when they're really young, you you're like um you know, you tell them about the a tooth fairy or Santa or something like that.

[00:19:25]And it's just really easier than explaining that like what you're doing with the stuff. And so it kind Yeah. Right. Exactly. But we make we made a bunch of stuff up here, too. So I can totally see it being the case that they were like not just someone with kids, but someone who was kind of in charge, right? The leader of the pack was like, I I you have to do this. And they were like, why do we have to do that? And he was like, uh, the storm told me. I talked to the storm.

[00:19:50]And it kind of like grew over time. in that just totally could have started.

[00:19:54]>> The first time it happens in the Bible is when Jacob has married Leah and Rachel. And Laban goes, "Hey, don't take any more wives. Just have those two sisters as your wives. I'm not going to be here to watch, but God will watch you. God will see it." So, it's inherent in these uh God concepts and these myths that, you know, you better watch out and you better not.

[00:20:18]>> It's like those fake security cameras.

[00:20:20]>> Yeah.

[00:20:20]>> Yeah. Yeah, but Santa Claus was was based on, you know, a legend of a real person.

[00:20:25]>> Yeah. But he didn't see you when you were sleeping and know when you're awake. That part is is made up to keep kids in line.

[00:20:32]>> But also, the first god that the caveman made could have been based on like his grandpa Ugg, >> you know, and like he's like, "Oh yeah, Uggh. [clears throat] You think he died?

[00:20:43]He's still watching. It's still like it was based on Ugg, you know, like we don't know."

[00:20:47]>> Jump to the point. What are you saying?

[00:20:49]Are you saying that God revealed himself to the first cavemen and that's where we get the God concept? Is that what you're going to posit? Because that's just like something with no proof. No, I believe that a spirit resides in us and we have a uh a drive well something within us makes us kind of makes us the kernel of the spark I guess you call it the spark the spirit uh something that maybe you guys are rebelling against but you might uh but uh >> yeah I would say I would say that like it seems more reasonable like we are confused by mysteries and we are patternseeking animals that that's very helpful to us. But when there's things that we don't know what the pattern is, we go, what could this be? And then we go, well, we've got to put something there. And the thing that we've put into the mystery is God. And the mysteries, like I said before, and it feels like you didn't really respond to it, were gaping in the olden days. And now the gape has gotten a lot smaller. still, you know, sexy, mysterious, whatever, but we don't need to fill it with God as much as we used to. And and that and if if you see that trend, like if you see God was the God of the farming. Like if you even when you read the Bible, it's like you will have good crops if you follow these laws. Like that was the God was the God of the farming. And if you killed your kids for this other god, you'd get good crops. and like this is how that worked. You know, now we know how farming works. We know how weather works. We know how all that stuff works.

[00:22:29]We don't have to bother with a god. But we don't know how everything started.

[00:22:33]So, we put God in that gape still, right? And that's it.

[00:22:37]>> For some people, like that smaller gape can be enjoyable. Like have like that knowledge of like learning things and and and knowing more stuff is that like they might like that. Well, under atheism, yeah, under atheism, I don't want there to be a massive gape. I want to get my gapes tight as like as tight as they can be. And I'm going to enjoy those little gaps.

[00:22:57]>> That's the joy of life is like, you know, making that smaller, helping, you know, learning more.

[00:23:02]>> Yeah, we can still like I'm not going to shove God in there, but like we don't there's a mystery in there. We don't know what that is. But yeah, does that make sense, Eric? Well, I think you know what I was going back to the let's say let's let's say the original person who invented religion. Okay, you can call him that. [clears throat] >> U somebody had to others had to believe him though. I mean I I believe there was probably skeptics in his day and so something had to resonate amongst the other people to says you know he might be right or you know I feel it too.

[00:23:34]>> Yeah, there's still people >> Well, yeah.

[00:23:38]>> Do you think frogs have that spark, too?

[00:23:41]What's that?

[00:23:42]>> Like other animal like do frogs and worms all have the same spark thing?

[00:23:46]>> We have no idea. We have We have >> They all don't believe, right? Like there's no history of frogs having religions.

[00:23:52]>> Well, I haven't I haven't talked to a frog. Have you?

[00:23:56]>> Oh, >> I guess we both I I guess we both did some a couple theories here, right? So, my theory was we are pattern seeeking animals, which we do know to be true.

[00:24:06]And when we get these mysteries, we kind of want to find an answer for them and we get superstitious, which is true because you can see that even like, oh, I got to wear my lucky socks that I never watch wash to win the football game, right? So, we have those types of rituals that's like innate in who we are. I don't see that as like this massive spiritual thing. I think that that just like seems to be the way we engage with the world. I bet you there are sociologists or something that would have a better understanding of this. But your guess is that we have spiritual god godar like god radar that we're like really looking for god and that we not >> I would call it I would call it an affinity an affinity >> we have an affinity for god except the thing is that like what I notice is as we get more knowledge we get less god.

[00:25:00]So it seems like God has been like corresponded directly with the amount that we've known about the world and God has shrunk as we've learned more. That that's like basically science. What you're saying is yeah, but somebody thought of a god. Yeah, cuz they didn't know [ __ ] all. So of course they're going to like go there must be some sort of magic. Like that's not hard to imagine, especially since we see how the trend goes. As soon as they figure out a biogenesis, Eric, like it's over for Christianity, that's their last vestage of God. Then they're going to go, "Well, what happened before all that shit?"

[00:25:42]>> Oh, no. No.

[00:25:45]That that can't happen. It it >> You don't think they're going to figure out a biogen a biogenesis?

[00:25:51]>> They already did. Oh, are they done? I thought they had a couple more steps.

[00:25:57]>> We we know how it works. Uh it's just a matter like and there's there's new stuff happening like every month there's breakthroughs in it.

[00:26:05]>> We aren't seeing spiders crawing spiders crawl out of test tubes. That wouldn't be a biogenesis. That's not how it works. Okay.

[00:26:12]>> But we're seeing crazy things happen in labs. So yeah, totally.

[00:26:16]>> All right. But when they get it to a point where everybody knows about it and it's ridiculous to deny it the way evolution is now, then only the creationists will still believe that in that god and everyone else will be like, "Okay, well that's another gapefilled like it'll just go away."

[00:26:35]>> So why I asked about frogs, Eric, like the there's something interesting in what you're saying where it's just humans who have it because you're believing [clears throat] in the evolution, right? So you you know that there was like a time where we weren't quite human and then turned into humans slowly over time gradually and somewhere like evolutionarily we like evolved a spark of affinity or something that you're saying like a soul but the the previous people didn't have it.

[00:27:03]>> Probably what probably what separates homo sapiens from our ancestors.

[00:27:09]>> I I kind of believe there's >> there's not a clear line of separation anywhere. It's a It's a blurry line in reality.

[00:27:16]>> Well, I tend to believe that the first homo sapiens were Adam and Eve. So, >> Oh, right. Yeah. I forgot we're doing Christian. Like, you're not factual. I forgot about that.

[00:27:25]>> Well, I mean, we don't we >> That's the great, by the way. That's the great thing about atheism. Factually amazing. You don't have to lie to yourself and be in denial. You can truly engage with what people are really finding out. And and that's like so refreshing.

[00:27:44]>> What's that?

[00:27:44]>> You are lying to yourself if you're an atheist because you don't know what's on the other side of that death's door. You don't know.

[00:27:50]>> I don't pretend to.

[00:27:51]>> So you're saying that there's nothing.

[00:27:53]And but you don't really know.

[00:27:54]>> I I I I'll say I don't know. For your sake, I'll say I don't know. I don't I don't think there's going to be something, but I don't know.

[00:28:02]>> Nobody knows.

[00:28:04]>> But is that is that keeping an open mind about it? I mean, have you just you rejected it? You've rejected our >> No, I've rejected the Christian God.

[00:28:12]I've rejected the idea of God. Could our souls go forward? I don't believe we have souls. Actually, >> I had a I had a PLLE. I don't know if you've heard of these like um >> You've heard of an NDE.

[00:28:25]>> What's a PLE? What does that stand for?

[00:28:27]>> It's like a pre-life experience.

[00:28:28]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:28:29]>> And so during that time, I remember >> nothing. Like it was just like nothingness. And I And I think it'll be the same.

[00:28:36]>> Yeah. Really? You sure you weren't asleep at the time? [laughter] >> But Eric, like, >> no, I wasn't asleep.

[00:28:40]>> What we know is we have this. We know we're in this now. And we have an idea of how this stuff works as far as like being conscious and stuff. And I know there's still mysteries there. Probably not as many as you want to believe. And then we know that if you bash this in or whatever, then what seems to be happening here is not happening anymore.

[00:29:03]So, I think I'm making like at the very least an educated guess, whereas you have like this wild and crazy culty fantasy that you're leaning into that like is such a joke. Like, it's such a joke to believe it and to like say that it's true as if you know. For me, I I'm saying like, yeah, it seems like we're pro it's probably lights out. Like, that seems reasonable and I think that that's fair and that's what we do under atheism. I will say like yeah I don't know but like I think we can I think we can surmise pretty pretty confidently.

[00:29:41]>> Don't you think though I mean from >> Yeah. And that's why I'm an atheist.

[00:29:45]>> No >> cuz I think >> No, what I'm saying is don't don't you think that going from a very small barely living organism a single-sellled organism. So I assume you believe in mic uh micro evolution.

[00:30:02]>> I believe in both evolutions.

[00:30:05]>> There's only one evolution that that's just a Christian.

[00:30:08]>> I believe in micro and macro. Both of them. Both completely different versions of evolution.

[00:30:15]>> Well, I mean >> I believe in hyper macro.

[00:30:18]>> Oh, interesting.

[00:30:19]>> Hyper micro too. Mhm.

[00:30:20]>> You you believe at one time uh human beings our our great great ancestors were like uh one-sellled organisms. Is that what you believe?

[00:30:29]>> Yep.

[00:30:30]>> Okay. All right. So, and so with uh with that u but some but why I mean it well >> point. That's a good point.

[00:30:43]>> No, I mean I'm serious. It ju it just seems that just seems that that that's a that the whole process of going from that to a complicated uh being that questions can question its own existence that can believe in a god that can uh think like we do >> that can make cookies.

[00:31:04]>> What what what was what was the Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, but uh but oh, by the way, why do cookies taste good to you? I know they're not good for you, Eric. Why would God create a world, >> but did that chocolate Why would God create a world where refined sugars are so pleasing when they'll [ __ ] kill you? That's one of the big questions that I have. Anyway, go on.

[00:31:28]>> Did that cook Did that cookie evolve?

[00:31:30]Did it pop out of the earth? Or did it uh was there a baker?

[00:31:33]>> There was a baker. You know what? Yeah.

[00:31:35]>> The thing about cookies is they are going to give me energy that I need to chase the wild buffalo. That is why it tastes good to me because I evolved to enjoy the thing that actually helped me survive. So that's uh >> Yeah. But the but the process the process of making a good cookie I mean just didn't happen by accident. Would you say that? I mean, there was people that made the first cookie probably, you know, it just didn't pop out perfect the first time.

[00:32:05]>> I [laughter] think the fir I think the first cookie came from nothing. But after that, like there was a person to receive the cookie and then they went like, "How should I make this?" And then they figured it out by like reverse engineering it. But like I have a wild belief, Eric.

[00:32:29]Well, that that's that's an interesting thought.

[00:32:31]>> I'm joking. But the the thing is that like >> I know you are.

[00:32:34]>> The the thing is that yeah, everything evolved over time. Like do you I thought you believed in evolution. I thought you agreed with that.

[00:32:42]>> Yeah.

[00:32:43]>> I believe you've heard of intelligent design. I think it's quite possible that uh man I mean if you look at when he says when it says God uh made man from the dust. Well, what is dust? Dust is is dirt. It's uh carbon materials. It's uh so in a certain point of view uh human beings were made that we were made from simpler organic materials at one point.

[00:33:09]>> Man, if the Bible had said that like think about how convincing that would be if in Genesis it said humans evolved via the process of natural selection. You don't know what it means yet ancient Hebrews, but just write this down. uh and write natural selection and then just put organic matter, you know, carbon-based life forms. They'd be like, "I don't know what carbon is." They just wrote it down. We'd be like, "Whoa."

[00:33:31]>> And let me just say, let me just say, I dare you to win. Dare win. And then you're like, "What the [ __ ] is this?"

[00:33:40]And then as soon as Darwin's on the scene, they're like, "The [ __ ] God is real."

[00:33:45]>> Eric, it's been lovely talking to you.

[00:33:47]I'm going to move on to another guest, but you're welcome to come up and become an atheist anytime. Okay.

[00:33:53]>> [music]