Trump and Netanyahu Clash Bitterly – Pakistan Provides Nuclear Weapons to Iran | Lawrence Wilkerson

追加: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]Um, what was your reaction when you first saw that report of uh, just for the audience, we were just talking about the report of uh, Trump allegedly calling Netanyahu an effing idiot. What are you doing? You'd be in jail without me. Everyone hates you. Everyone hates Israel. What the f you doing? So, that's according to Axios and and Channel 12, I think, not channel 12, one of the Israeli media outlets also corroborated that there was a very tense call, but not the details of it.

[00:00:25]>> Yeah, that that was one of the things I was reading just before we went on. I was trying to figure out exactly what they were hiding.

[00:00:32]I don't think it's unusual given what I've heard before about one or two phone calls and one or two meetings that they had. Um Trump gets volatile, volcanic might be a better term with him from time to time. I really don't think looking back on Trump's career and his association with BB, he likes him very much. And I'm not at all sure BB likes Donald either, but both of them realize the other is indispensable to them. And you said I misheard. Sorry. You said Trump doesn't like BB much.

[00:01:02]>> Yeah.

[00:01:02]>> Okay. I misheard. Okay.

[00:01:03]>> Yeah. That that's what I'm getting from friends of Trump, if you will, friends of friends of Trump and others who've left him and are, you know, whispering in my ear. Um, and I can understand that because in many respects with some vast differences, of course, there are similar characters and similar characters usually have difficulty with one another when they are in great positions of power. uh at least that's been my experience. You know, I taught this I taught that the people in the decision-making process in states were more important than all the processes, more important than all the money, more important than anything else you think impacts decision- making, particularly national security decision-m is the characters involved in it. And so they they create a a volatile mixture sometimes. uh FDR is a great study in that regard in there so long and so many different people and then that last term when he was really telling everybody stories all the time lying really but he was doing it astutely about who was going to be vice president and so forth because he knew he was dying and he knew that the person he selected out of the 13 that started and the six that it rolled out to and then the three he knew that person was going to be president and you know FDR was the kind person who would think I think very rightfully so perhaps this can't happen because no one can handle it as well as I can and then he went he did exactly what the doctors told him he was going to do and died good thing he picked Harry Trimman too when you look at the rest of the list the rest of the list probably would have been so it's the people in the system and this is showing it in vivid terms I think now >> and what it's also showing is how desperate BB Netanyahu is becoming because now the Knesset has passed the first wicket on moving the elections up which is disadvantageous to him and he has people coming out now and attacking him on issues that he's very vulnerable on like he's listening to President Trump and President Trump told him to stop what he's doing in Lebanon and it seemed at least momentarily that BB was going to go along with it man it ricocheted all the way across Jerusalem and Lee picked it up and everyone who's standing in Net now whose path, if you will, either blocking him or no longer a confidant or a friend or been hurt by him or interested in replacing him is now seeing blood, smelling blood. And so it's getting dicey for BB. And Trump waits in and has a phone call like this.

[00:03:36]I'm sure that added to his angst. And he he he immediately reversed himself apparently if if I'm reading the tea leaves right. He told Trump he would do something that I think he was at least remotely s sincere in doing. That is watching what he was doing in Lebanon with a with a much more careful eye. And then he got these attacks. You can't let the American president, no matter who it is, tell you how to run our state, let alone run our security. And they're very, very barbed attacks and he's very vulnerable to them. So now he's back on the war path again in Lebanon. Yeah, that's that's what what's exactly that's the reports we're hearing. It's hard to differentiate the rhetoric like we're going to do this, we're going to do that versus action like are they going to actually do it? Um the there were there's two questions I have.

[00:04:25]First, there was a one report I think it was channel 12 or 13 or 14. There's so many of these channels that said that the way this went ahead was um there was a call initially and that was true that Netanyahu got the permission from Trump but the permission wasn't to strike Beirut. The permission was to bluff that they're going to strike Beirut, issue an evacuation order, and then what Netanyahu did was kind of find a way and maybe spoke to another official to get the authority on delivering on the threat. But Trump did not okay that last spot actually bombing Beirut. He okayed everything up to the evacuation. And then when Trump found out, sorry. Yeah.

[00:04:57]When Trump found out that Netanyah was going to actually bomb Beirut, that's where he called him and had that very tense call. Um, is that possible? Is that how So one of my guests told me they were speculating. that like Mario what happens probably um Netanyahu spoke to Rubio or Hexath or someone else in the administration and got the authority to strike Beirut kind of was a bit slimy about it without Trump's okay. Is it possible? Could something happen without the Trump's okay to that level?

[00:05:22]>> Yes, it could. Um, you work the system if you're a leader in the world, especially an ally, you work the system to find the the spots where if something happens with the big guy and you don't like it or you don't want to comport with it, you don't want to even follow it in any way, fashion, or form, then you find one of those people whom you can later blame if you have to, who will give you the leeway to do what you need to do. maybe because he doesn't know what the president has said or and that you know is not about to tell him what he said or they're operating at cross purposes and I would submit right now that Marco Rubio is operating from time to time at cross purposes with what the rest of the administration as it were wants >> because and you're going to see increasingly the vice president doing that too I think because I think he knows he's been put out to pasture um the going down to Argent Argentina may be the biggest indicator of him having been put out to pastor. Um, so you're going to have more and more fighting between these two packaderms, if you will. I dare not call them that. They aren't that powerful, but uh, Rubio and and and the vice president. and you're going to have more dissension amongst the decision makers and their adviserss because when things get really tense, that's what builds and it builds to the point where your enemy, your friend, your neutral can, if he knows anything about Washington, can take advantage of it.

[00:06:53]>> It's called waiting into the cracks.

[00:06:57]>> Waiting.

[00:06:58]>> It's a It's just so wild seeing how the system works the outside.

[00:07:02]>> Let me give you an example. Powell, come on. Powell comes back from the National Security Council meeting with Brent Skraftoft, the National Security Adviser, HW Bush, the president, um Jim Baker, the Secretary of State, all good buddies, all friends, one of the most collegial decision-making teams I've ever seen or studied. And he comes back and the first thing he does, he picks up the phone and he calls the most powerful man with regard to this issue, Sodom Hussein having invaded Kuwait in the Senate, Sam Nun of Georgia, who himself is running for president, he thinks the next time around, and who has aspirations to that effect, even if he wasn't going to run that time. And he he tells him what has happened in the meeting because the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has two responsibilities. He has a responsibility to the president of the United States and his boss, the secretary of defense, and he has a responsibility to the Congress of the United States. It's a very difficult road to ho sometimes to be honest and loyal to both of them as we've seen in testimonies and other things. So Powell calls right away to the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sam Nun of Georgia, and he tells basically we decided we're going to throw sanctions massively at them. There will be no use of military force. Sam Nun goes out and starts spreading that word in the Congress.

[00:08:19]A few hours later, President Bush is changed his mind and he says on TV, and I happen to be in the office when Pal is watching CNN. It's about the only thing we watch then, TV right in the sheriff's office. And Bush says, "This invasion will not stand." And Pal looks at me, he says, "I think I just got new orders."

[00:08:42]And sure enough, >> that's crazy.

[00:08:44]>> He did. And of course, none is spreading the word in the Congress. It's going to be sanctions and the war and everything and looking like a fool. So that creates a a new animosity between the chairman and the Congress, particularly none. And that animosity doesn't even go away until the confirmation hearing for Chairman Powell's second two years in office. And it's a bitter hearing.

[00:09:07]It's so fascinating.

[00:09:09]Um, and so you do believe that Trump would have called Netanyahu and had that tense score. But my question then is how significant is that? Because I've seen similar reports about Biden and Netanyahu where Biden is criticizing him say I can't remember the terms that were used um and having a very tense discussion. There's the famous quote by Bill Clinton. Who the who the who the [ __ ] does he think he is? Who's the superpower here? Something along those lines telling his aid about Netanyahu.

[00:09:36]And also a lot of reports about heated exchanges between Obama and Netanyahu, but that wasn't as prevalent in the press. So then one of my guests told me that Mario, like you see that in the press, you see that in the rhetoric, but when it comes to action, it doesn't amount to much. Is is that true?

[00:09:52]>> It is in effect, I think, because Netanyahu is going to do what he wants to do and what he feels like he needs to do both politically and national security-wise. And these things are coming together now because his opponents, his most likely opponents are successfully using his listening to the US president rather than listening to Israel's needs as a weapon against him.

[00:10:13]And they're using it all over. They're using it in the Gaza struggle. They're using it in the West Bank struggle.

[00:10:19]They're using it in big time in the Lebanon struggle. And they're using it in the Iran struggle because they're accusing him of not doing what he needed to do to convince the United States to go whole hog. So he's in political trouble right now. He's in hot water and he's going to do whatever is necessary for his survival first. This is what I think is the dastardly thing about Netanyahu and Israel's surviv survival second. Which brings me back full course now to the comments he made about the final solution using Hitler's own terms.

[00:10:50]What does the final solution mean when you say it, BB? Does it mean you're thinking about using nuclear weapons?

[00:10:57]When did he say that?

[00:10:59]>> About two days ago in one of these.

[00:11:01]>> You must complete the mission in Iran in a way that constitute a final solution.

[00:11:04]>> Yeah.

[00:11:06]>> Oh, >> nasty terminology to use cuz you know he knows that terminology.

[00:11:16]>> What do you think he means?

[00:11:18]>> I think he's I hope he's using it as as material to bluff with. It's powerful bluff. There's another instrument coming into or another issue coming into play here now though um work at the Eisenhower media network and other places like that have pretty good information as do others that Pakistan has finally decided which side of the bread is going to butter the most and that side is China and uh alternatively Iran because of China's interest in Pakistan or interest in Iran and so What's happened in the last 48 hours is a blood sealed deal between the ISI, the Pakistani military. I have no idea where the Pakistani civilian leadership is because it's not really powerful right now. Uh which is usual in Pakistan.

[00:12:10]Emman Khan gone. Got a figurehead in there so to speak. And that deal includes Iran. You need a nuclear weapon, you got it.

[00:12:20]>> Okay. Can you repeat? Can you explain that further? I've heard someone mention that before, but I'd love I'd expect you to say it. You say it has more weight.

[00:12:29]>> Well, the word is we have lots of nuclear weapons. You know, we do you know we produce the father of the Islamic bond bomb bomb a con. Um we have one for you if you need it. And that has been very reassuring. Um, I've been doing a map survey of the railroad that comes in from essentially the almost about 700 kilometers maybe I think uh right at the border. It's the mountain town Mashad. It comes in there and it goes almost due west to Thran. This is the Chinese railroad that comes out of western China goes through central Asia weaving through all the key capitals and then comes into Iran. Then I looked at the ports that would be used on the Caspian, the southern ports, and the ports in the north that Russia would use. And you look at it and you say, well, I understand where Hezbollah is getting all of its weaponry. And I understand where Iran is getting a lot of its logistics support and probably lots of other things too, like artillery, tanks, whatever it needs. um probably mostly ballistic missile and ballistic missile replenishment because it doesn't seem to have a whole lot of interest in a ground military other than the kind of military it threw up against Sodom Hussein when it had human wave attacks and that sort of things and the long war it had with Iraq. So you look at these logistics and anybody will tell you logistics is the essence of victory.

[00:13:56]You look at it and you have to say that Donald you've lost. You've lost and if anybody is made Yeah, there you go. If anybody is making any sense of this in the Pentagon, some colonel, some lieutenant colonel, maybe some general, I don't know, they don't seem to be very competent strategic think takers of late or Hex has gotten rid of them if they are. If they're making any sense of this at all, they've got to be saying to the president, "Get out. Get out. Shut this down and get out." Because the odds are just >> Yeah. The odds are just stacking up so dramatically against any kind of success in this war. and they're they're stacking up for a resounding defeat even if you leave a foot in it or you even look like you're concerned with it like staying around the straight of Hormuzz.

[00:14:42]Um the the straight as has been proved in the last 48 hours 300 or something or 30 35 I guess it was key ships but more than that have gotten through and they've all gotten through because they paid the toll and steamed out and they weren't supporting Israel. Um, so if if you look at what would happen were Iran to have complete control of the straight, it's better than what happens when we contest that control [laughter] because we can't make a complete blockade. We can't close it off. We do not have the forces to do it. So, we're actually making the situation that Iran is curing the situation that we might have global recession or even depression.

[00:15:25]We're making it worse. Iran's making it better. And the world recognizes this.

[00:15:30]So the pressure on Donald Trump is going to become enormous if he doesn't shut this down. And he's he's got to find some face saving way to do it, but he's got to shut it