Guilty Gestures Don't Lie | This Evidence Just Cracked the Brian Hooker Case Wide Open

[00:00:00]O of course anytime you have a history of of domestic violence, you all know how it is. This me tell I'm sitting there like when you have a history of domestic you guys live all that but um yeah so yeah I I totally get that and it may as soon as you hear that I know it jads you a little bit but still you you know what you pretty much know what kind of person you're dealing with and you can assume some of the background for it. You may be wrong. You may you know you may be close but when you when that comes up de you know that's not good.

[00:00:28]That's not good. So, he has a history of not being nice to her. In other words, >> 100%. And then, you know, a classic um body lang I can read body language. I just don't know what I'm seeing. Yeah. I can't describe it like you do like because Oh, that's him that you know because obviously we on the NYPD we learn on the job training. I wish I did have someone like you to train me uh early in my NYPD career.

[00:00:54]>> It's all it's all academic. What you guys see is this. it. All all I'm doing is put and other people have done is put words to that and say, "Oh, okay." When they when they do that and look to the right, most of the time that's it's a shoulder uh you know, single shoulder shrug and the chin goes right. Most of the time, or in my experience, it suggests that they're being deceptive.

[00:01:14]When they do like this, you see this little thing called the up the upside down um smiley face, which is the grief muscle. All we've done is put words to that and definitions to them. you know what it is, but and you and when you see it, your brain goes, I know what that is. You just don't know the technical terms. That's just a bunch of nerds versus a bunch of guys that go out and do it for real, >> right?

[00:01:35]>> That's what that's the only difference.

[00:01:36]That's that's the big not the only difference. The big difference there.

[00:01:39]>> Now, Scott, are you are you a parent?

[00:01:43]>> No, I don't think so.

[00:01:44]>> You don't have kids. Okay. No, but I I would imagine this is very useful as a parent to you to to spot de I mean you don't have to be a body language expert to spot deception. Mike, have you ever used it as a parent?

[00:01:59]>> Um don't remember using as a parent. Um my my kids were were were amazing so I never got the chance to use it too much.

[00:02:07]I imagine I had three girls. If I have a if I had a couple of boys, I'm sure I would have become an expert in this in some level with with them because, you know, you're I remember as a kid, you know, trying to get away with stuff. And Scott's right. You know, you're looking around, you're looking down, you're overexlaining, you're just trying to come up, you're rambling, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That would have been good you could put to good use if I had boys.

[00:02:31]>> Absolutely. You know, Scott, you're a teacher obviously because you've taught this.

[00:02:37]You know, the guy who says his dog ate his homework is not going to get over on you. [laughter] >> That's true. That's true. That's true.

[00:02:44]They try though. Yeah.

[00:02:46]>> Oh, yeah. But you you could say, "Oh, you know, this is what I spotted that you just did. You weren't aware that you did this." And that's a sign of [laughter] the guy. Okay. My dog didn't eat my homework.

[00:02:58]Well, you you know how is that's you go into interrogation mode at that point and you get them to tell you about that without without going straight in on them. You don't let them know they're lying. You just start asking them questions. They back, you know, they corner themselves. Then you get it from them.

[00:03:13]>> Absolutely. In fact, there's someone in the chat at Lahi Bronte 321. I'm an expert thanks to my son. See, she I I hit the parent uh the parent population out there. I want to play a quick snippet of u Brian uh Hooker and we'll just watch this and then I I'm going to let you comment on it. This morning, Brian Hooker is speaking out after Bahamian authorities released him from custody without pressing charges in his wife's disappearance. What was it like being in police custody knowing that the search was still ongoing for your life?

[00:03:45]>> It was hell. It was a little a different chapter of hell and a giant hell that I'm in. [snorts] >> You're still in it?

[00:03:52]>> Yes. I don't have a wife.

[00:04:01]>> She belongs with me.

[00:04:03]Booker, who plans on staying in the Bahamas, overcome with emotion as he returns to searching for his wife.

[00:04:09]>> My only focus is to go back to the boat and then hire or beg people to help me go find some areas to search.

[00:04:20]>> Is that what's next for you?

[00:04:21]>> That's what's next for me until my visa runs out. And in a new audio recording, Hooker opening up for the first time about what he says happened in the immediate moment his wife Lynette was lost at sea after falling overboard on their dinghy more than a week ago.

[00:04:34]>> She basically just bounced off the dinghy in the middle of a a little blow.

[00:04:39]She had the spare dingy key in her dry bag which was with her.

[00:04:43]>> This conversation with friends recorded the day before he was arrested. Hooker recalling how he immediately lost sight of her. The wind blew us apart so fast that I think I think she tried to swim back to the sailboat. Throw it back to our sailboat. Uh I yelled to her that I lost her or I threw the anchor out and anchored the dinghy and uh just yeah I yelled I couldn't see her anymore.

[00:05:08]>> The 58-year-old claiming he tried to rescue her. What was the last thing that you remember saying to each other?

[00:05:18]>> Without going into a lot of details, because of the ongoing investigation, I will never I will always think there was something I could have done differently.

[00:05:28]My one job my one job was to look out for her and that has not happened. And I'm going to keep looking out for her now best I can.

[00:05:42]We asked Brian Hooker if he has spoken with Lynette's daughter or her mother since his release. He says that he has not, reiterating his sole focus is on finding Lynette.

[00:05:52]>> I want to I want to take that off the screen now. Scott, what my first thing and I want I want to get right to you is what was that stance he was in?

[00:06:01]Shoulders back, his hands folded in front of him.

[00:06:05]>> He He's He's showing you what he thinks grief looks like. This is all fake. This is all fake. And we can tell by that last question when he was when when he said, "What was the last thing you two said to each other?" In real life, what would have happened there is you would remember exactly what you said to each other before the last time you saw your wife. Number two, the number one, you jumped in the water and tried to get her out. You wouldn't have been like trying to throw her or whatever was going on with the ore and hollering at her and you think she's trying to you jump in.

[00:06:33]So, let's get that out of the way.

[00:06:35]>> Now, that question when he says, "What did you what are the last things you said?" He doesn't answer that question.

[00:06:40]>> No, >> he doesn't answer it. He goes on and talks about something else that's called chap and redirect. Same thing that happens when planes are being shot at with heat seeeking missiles and and the plane being shot at throws a bunch of chaff out of the back which is like aluminum and things on fire and things are really hot. So the missiles will follow that stuff hopefully hopefully instead of the plane. That's what that is. And as illustrators, let's talk about those a second. illustrating is when you uh when your brain emphasizes specific words and phrases like I did just then specific words and phrases and what's happening here is his illustrators he's illustrating a lot with his head. Watch what he does. He he his illustrators go backwards. When you don't illustrate on the words or there are extra ones moving and there are no words, that means you've got inner dialogue going on up there. You're thinking about something. He's he's got the idea of these answers he wants to give, but he's structured them just terrible structure of the answer, but he wasn't prepared for that one for the last um the last time. What was the last thing you all said to each other?

[00:07:45]Because the emotion that should have been with that answer about what you two said, he puts in the answer that he gives, which has nothing to do. He's talking about so many things he could have done to to to make that not happen or whatever. and his illustrators are so low they're almost they're almost gone.

[00:08:02]But he's but you can see him do what's called adapting with his hand down there. He's holding his hands together.

[00:08:07]And when we adapt, that's way we get rid of that builtup stress and tension. You guys have seen it a thousand times when somebody's sitting somewhere and they'll do this. They'll rock a little bit or they'll squeeze their legs together on their hands. The obvious one where you rub your legs on your hands or they'll or they'll do this with their hand. You know, they'll be down here but they'll be doing this. all those things to get rid of that builtup stress and tension.

[00:08:29]This is a we could go on for about three days. I could do no kidding. I bet I could do a three-hour training on just on just the videos you showed me because everything's in there. Everything is in there from fading facts when he talks.

[00:08:43]Fading facts. When when you ask someone one question, you all have heard I'm going to keep saying this, but it's true. You've heard this thousand times.

[00:08:49]Somebody starts answering the question as they get closer to the end. starts getting quieter and quieter because their brain is saying this is wrong. We shouldn't be doing this. You know, this this isn't good. They get inner dialogue going on and their brain goes we shouldn't be lying. We shouldn't be doing this. And so they get quieter and quieter. It's a subconscious thing. They just go the list goes on and on and on.

[00:09:11]>> So he's a classic case of someone Well, that's why lawyers say keep your mouth shut because you're your own worst enemy. And the one thing that I c couldn't help but notice he turns on [laughter] he turns that on when he when he thinks he needs to. It's not sincere. It's not happening organically. He's turning it on for effect. Your thoughts.

[00:09:38]>> Exactly. Exactly. And what would happen is you morph into those things sometimes quickly. But you don't just go from this to oh all this bang into to a another emotion. you morph into those things because you're trying to fight that that that grief emotion. Well, he's not showing grief, but he's showing you what he thinks is grief. So, we see we we don't see him fighting that. None of that. He just goes right into it. And then when you ask him another question, bang, clicks right out of it. Doesn't morph out of it and doesn't have any the physically the physical traits of of grief as well, like we were talking about earlier, the grief muscle. There's a little group of muscles right here called the glloella. These right here, those will go together and they'll push up. And then this little these muscles up here on your forehead will push down and that makes that upside down horseshoe that we look at and refer to as the grief muscle. That happens.

[00:10:25]You've seen people who've been shot or something. When they're in just terrific pain, you'll see that. And when they're in emotional pain, you'll see that grieving, you'll see that also. Even though he's got a beard, we can always see this little thing here called the chin ball. Awesome. When that thing's not engaged, when it's not being pushed up and makes like an upside down smiley face, you know, I guess a frowny face, then you don't have the true emotion there either. That's what that suggests.

[00:10:50]So, and his eyes wouldn't be squinted.

[00:10:53]That would be wider because you're looking for help. You're And he's not asking for help. Not once does he say, turn to the camera and say, "If anybody's out there, we need help.

[00:11:01]Please come help me." You know, all of us, am I doing anything wrong? Is there something we're doing you don't that we we're not aware of we should be doing?

[00:11:08]nothing like that. It's all all the things that should be there are missing.

[00:11:13]So >> yeah, I mean it it's really fascinating.

[00:11:16]And you know, of course, when we advertise our show, we say from a police perspective, but I still get people in the chat saying he's innocent to proven guilty. I go, I'm not in that business.

[00:11:26]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> If I want to put up a lawyer shingle, I'll have Mike Giri do it, but I don't have a law degree. I'm not in the business of he's innocent to proven guilty. I'm in the business of showing why he's guilty. And again, he hasn't been charged. They arrested him. And look, look, at this point, they do not have enough evidence in their opinion to charge him, prosecute him, and get a guilty conviction. So, time is on their side. They're going to wait. They're going to build this case. But when we look at all of these interviews he's giving, he it's great for the uh for the prosecution because he's going to hang himself. Mike, your thoughts? Yeah, I saw another interview with him where they had the the uh interviewer was letting the uh the audience know that his attorney was just off camera and so there probably was very very um simple questions they asked and they didn't go at him like say on cross-examination, you know, just really hammer them or like a homicide detective going after that person. You know, you're taking a real hard run at that person, challenging them. But the same thing, he the same thing. He was sitting in one of those like d Hollywood director chairs or something and he did the same thing.

[00:12:36]Scott pointed out exactly he did that little break of his voice [clears throat] and then quickly got out of it. Um it was almost as if he was going to cry not but not a single tear. Um it was very very put on and again I'm not I'm not an expert but you and I learned really from the street you know we didn't we didn't have the textbooks on we wish we did. it would have been a lot easier. But when you see what he some of the interviews he's given and how he explains things over and over and over the same exact way to me over explanation with the exact same script uh to me tends to show that he's trying to cement a story. No matter what questions are asked, he's trying to cement a story, an answer in his head so that he will be consistent, you know, in other interviews. And so I'm thinking when he draws the map and he does this and he does that and he and he sends text messages to people with his explanation in it rather than say, "Oh my goodness, my my wife I believe has drowned. Oh my god, I'm here." He's like, "She she had some drinks. We got in a boat. The water was rough. Uh she fell overboard. She took the key with her." Who writes this stuff in a text message, you know, email.

[00:13:51]>> You're right. I'm thinking he's trying to cement the story in his head by telling it over and over and over and over again.

[00:13:59]>> You know, Mike, my favorite quote and my only quote I know from Shakespeare is you doth protestth too much. [laughter] And that in dealing with people that are lying that is so app propo to this guy.

[00:14:15]Yes, you doth pro protestth too much, Scott.

[00:14:19]>> Yeah. I think my favorite is McBth. It's act three, scene three, line 26. No.

[00:14:25]>> Okay.