INTENSE! Elder Tries To END MY DEBATE CAREER...Gets COOKED BADLY Instead...

Added: 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]You believe everything that was created was created through Christ, right?

[00:00:03]>> Is that not what the Bible says, sir?

[00:00:05]>> No, I I agree. I just want to make sure.

[00:00:06]So, everything that was created was created through Christ. Okay. Was Christ created?

[00:00:11]>> Yes.

[00:00:11]>> Was Christ created through Christ?

[00:00:13]>> Christ was created through the father.

[00:00:16]>> Everything that was created was created through Christ.

[00:00:19]>> Listen. Listen. I understand. If you give me a chance to respond, >> then we all can have an understanding.

[00:00:28]So, I'm going to do my best to debunk the trinity. All I ask is that you'd have the same patience with me as you have with the previous caller.

[00:00:34]>> Well, the previous caller was engaging and she was trying to deal with this stuff honestly. So, you if you have that same attitude.

[00:00:42]>> Okay.

[00:00:43]>> Absolutely.

[00:00:44]>> Wonderful. Wonderful. So, let me get started.

[00:00:46]>> Wait, wait, wait before you go. Sorry.

[00:00:48]Do you do you believe Jesus is the father?

[00:00:51]>> No. I believe Jesus at one time Jesus was not. Jesus was a creation of the father.

[00:00:57]>> Okay. Gotcha.

[00:00:59]>> And and through and through the agency of Jesus, everything else was created.

[00:01:04]>> Gotcha. All right.

[00:01:05]>> But Okay. So, at one time, Jesus was not only the father existed.

[00:01:10]>> Gotcha. And what what verse do you have to to help substantiate that?

[00:01:16]>> Um, one that comes to mind where it says he was the firstborn of all creation.

[00:01:22]It says David was the firstborn of the kings of the earth.

[00:01:25]>> But we're not talking about David. We're talking about Jesus.

[00:01:28]>> What do you think firstborn means?

[00:01:30]>> Huh?

[00:01:31]>> What do you think the word firstborn means?

[00:01:34]>> Well, we want parallel to a to to a human ideology. The first son like my like my child is the firstborn.

[00:01:41]>> David.

[00:01:41]>> Now, what is he saying consistent? How is David the firstborn though?

[00:01:48]>> All right. All right. This is what I'm saying here, right?

[00:01:51]Let me start off with >> N.

[00:01:58]You have to give me a chance to debunk the trinity. What you doing? You're controlling the narrative. You're you controlling the narrative now about David.

[00:02:05]>> Is it okay if I call you source?

[00:02:08]>> Absolutely. I don't want to talk about David. We We revisit it. We can revisit it later if you want.

[00:02:12]>> Listen listen, brother. Listen, listen.

[00:02:14]So if you if you're if you are showing that Jesus was once not right that he did not exist and that he was created, you have debunked the trinity.

[00:02:25]>> Okay, >> that's the easiest way to do it.

[00:02:27]>> Let me let me get this off. Okay, >> absolutely.

[00:02:30]>> So when you're when you're bringing when you say Jesus is created because he's called the firstborn of all creation, >> right? We're holding you to be consistent with your train of thought because you're taking firstborn to mean the first son, the first thing. Okay?

[00:02:45]>> So, you're going to have to explain then why is David, who we know is the youngest of eight, >> and obviously wasn't the first king of the earth, >> right?

[00:02:56]>> Why is he called the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth?

[00:02:59]>> Because that's what Yahweh wanted to say.

[00:03:02]>> But was he the first?

[00:03:04]>> I don't know. No, he wasn't the first.

[00:03:06]So then how is he the first born?

[00:03:08]>> Listen, let's deal with the scripture.

[00:03:10]The >> we are Psalm 8 Psalm 89:27, brother.

[00:03:13]>> No, no. You asked me a question. I gave you the scripture. I said the first thing that comes to mind is that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation.

[00:03:22]>> Then you moved the goalpost to David.

[00:03:25]>> That's not moving the goalpost. It's called consistency.

[00:03:28]>> Yeah.

[00:03:30]>> Okay.

[00:03:30]>> Look, I I can't I can't make that's like look that's like that's like me doing this, brother. It's like me going to a Muslim and saying, "Wait, what? You you believe that God did something supernatural?

[00:03:41]What the?" And they're like, "Wait, don't you believe in your religion that God does things supernaturally?" Uh, we're not talking about that right now.

[00:03:48]No, it's I have to be consistent. So, what you're what's happening with you is that your argument is not working because it you can't hold its consistency.

[00:03:58]>> That was never my argument. It was you just argued that Jesus is created because of Colossians 1:15.

[00:04:04]>> You asked me a You asked me a question.

[00:04:07]I gave you the answer of Colossians.

[00:04:10]Right. I said because it says so and so and so. Right now, >> no, I don't see a problem. I take that verse from what it says. If the verse says that Jesus Christ is the firstborn of all creation and we also know that all creation was created through him that means that Jesus Christ is the supreme shilak shallak of the most high.

[00:04:34]Now shallak is the Hebrew word which means um a agent one who is sent and if you see the one who was sent who represents the king then you have seen the king himself. So that's one of the reasons why. No, no, it is true in a Hebrew sense. Remember, >> pause there. Pause there. Pause there.

[00:04:54]>> Let me get this off real quick. Can Can Let me get this off real quick, please.

[00:04:57]>> I'll let I'll let you go ahead and I >> I appreciate. So, we have to remember that the first century Christians were mostly Hebrew. So, they understood the shall principle. You understand? They didn't believe the first century Christians did not believe in the trinity. The trinity was developed over a course of 300 years later. Now anybody can Google right now first century Christians believe in the trinity doctrine >> source source material. So look >> yes sir >> this is a conversation not for you to go on in a speech. Okay this we got a dialogue.

[00:05:33]>> Wow.

[00:05:34]>> I was just saying did you do you feel like >> one minute that was okay. Do you feel like you got your point off?

[00:05:40]>> Huh?

[00:05:40]>> Do you feel like you got your point across? Not not quite because I really want to hone in.

[00:05:45]>> Exactly. So because you're you're you're making a bunch of points right now and it's going on for a minute.

[00:05:52]>> No, go ahead.

[00:05:54]>> I'm trying. All right. No problem.

[00:05:56]>> So >> you understand my point about the divine shil.

[00:05:59]>> I understand.

[00:06:01]>> Yes.

[00:06:03]All power.

[00:06:05]I got you. You believe that he's the highest agent of Jehovah. I got you. I got you. It's also the angel of the Lord.

[00:06:12]>> Let's deal with this. And the angel of the Lord, I got you.

[00:06:15]>> So, listen. When you said that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, and you said you're taking it for what it means.

[00:06:22]Absolutely. I don't know. Have you watched me before?

[00:06:26]>> Absolutely. I watched you before.

[00:06:27]>> So, you know that I I'm like a I I when I grip on something, I don't I don't I don't let it go, man.

[00:06:33]>> Don't let it go. Come with it.

[00:06:35]>> You You like that?

[00:06:36]>> Come with Come with it. Come with it.

[00:06:38]Come with it. All right.

[00:06:39]>> Oh, yo, what the knows it. So listen, when you when you say that you're taking the verse >> for what it says, >> which I'm with you, he's the firstborn of all creation. So you're like, "Yep, this means that he's the literal first creation."

[00:06:55]>> So then I need you to be consistent.

[00:06:57]Okay.

[00:06:58]>> Psalm 89:27.

[00:07:00]>> Go ahead.

[00:07:00]>> It says that David is the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth, >> but technically he's the eighth born.

[00:07:06]>> Exactly.

[00:07:08]>> Right. So, how is he called called the firstborn?

[00:07:11]>> Who called him? Who called him the firstborn?

[00:07:13]>> God.

[00:07:15]>> That's who that's who we have to take it up with. Because now you want me to to to go into the mind of God and say this is why God called him the firstborn.

[00:07:23]Even though he was the eighthorn above my ways and his and his thoughts is above my thoughts. He decides to call an eighthborn child the firstborn.

[00:07:34]>> If you listen, I can help you.

[00:07:35]>> We got to take it up in prayer. Okay.

[00:07:37]>> Okay.

[00:07:38]We got to take it up a prayer.

[00:07:39]>> Amen. You got to take it up a prayer, brother. You got to take it up a prayer.

[00:07:44]>> Well, this do here's the thing, source.

[00:07:47]Here's the thing. He actually gives us the answer in the same verse.

[00:07:52]>> All right, let's go.

[00:07:53]>> Okay, so it the verse goes like this. It says, "And I have called him my firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth." So, what does this mean?

[00:08:03]He's using firstborn as a term to implement preeeminence supremacy. He's supreme.

[00:08:11]>> That is the show principle.

[00:08:13]>> No worries.

[00:08:14]>> Represents source. Please relax brother so we can talk. So do you see how the term firstborn doesn't always mean the very first thing of a group that context?

[00:08:28]Yes.

[00:08:28]>> Very good. So context will tell us how the term firstborn is being used right >> not all the time in that context just >> I know so context will tell us do you agree context will tell us how the word is used right context will tell us >> yeah and there's different contextes right >> absolutely so the question is this source the question is when we go to Colossians 1:15 >> yes >> what is the context in which firstborn is being used is it being used to denote that Jesus is the first thing created or is it being used to denote that Jesus is supreme over creation? That's what we need to look at. Okay.

[00:09:08]>> Okay. So, you believe that Jesus is supreme over creation?

[00:09:14]>> Absolutely. That's what it says.

[00:09:15]>> Me too. Me too. I agree with you because he created everything.

[00:09:19]>> All right. So, now >> there's there's no argument there.

[00:09:22]>> No, there is an argument still because you still when you >> I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE. YOU WANT TO ARGUE. I don't want to argue. I want to understand it.

[00:09:29]>> Okay. So, look, >> you want to argue >> when you when you when you have Look, I'm just trying to help, bro. I'm just trying to help.

[00:09:34]>> So, when you have when you have in Colossians, when you even you say that Jesus created everything, guess what?

[00:09:41]Does >> that say that?

[00:09:42]>> Yep. It says that it say that. Yep.

[00:09:44]That's the truth. We agree.

[00:09:47]>> So, look, we agree.

[00:09:48]>> If Jesus created everything, >> that means that Jesus himself is not created. He's always been. That's not what the scripture said. The scripture says, >> "I'mma keep I'mma hook on like a pit bull." It says he was the firstborn of creation. Now, what you did, you found a similarity of the context of firstborn or the term firstborn when it was applied to David because he was the eighthborn, right? And you saying, "Well, he's the eighthborn, then it's not literally that David was the firstborn. So, why was he called the firstborn?" And then you said because he being a king and he has supreme eminence.

[00:10:29]>> I'm glad you agree that everything was created through Christ. But I do so you believe everything that was created was created through Christ, right?

[00:10:36]>> Is that not what the Bible says, sir?

[00:10:38]>> No, I I agree. I just want to make sure.

[00:10:39]So everything that was created was created through Christ. Okay. Was Christ created?

[00:10:44]>> Yes.

[00:10:44]>> Was Christ created through Christ?

[00:10:47]>> Christ was created through the father.

[00:10:49]>> But everything that was created was created through Christ. Listen, listen.

[00:10:53]I understand. If you give me a chance to respond, >> sure.

[00:10:56]>> We all can have an understanding right now. Jesus Christ, the Bible says, is the firstborn of all creation. Jesus, would you would you agree that Jesus Christ is in the image of the father?

[00:11:11]>> Yes.

[00:11:12]>> Okay. He's not answering. Now, here's my question. Here's my question.

[00:11:17]>> Why are you asking?

[00:11:18]>> What image is the father in?

[00:11:20]>> If Jesus Why you ask the question? I just asked you one.

[00:11:25]>> If Jesus Christ is in the image of the father, >> you dodged, brother.

[00:11:28]>> Id dodge. I did not dodge. Answer the question.

[00:11:32]>> Remember what he asked you?

[00:11:33]>> I asked this question.

[00:11:34]>> No, you didn't. He asked you.

[00:11:37]>> Okay, let's go back.

[00:11:38]>> He said, "You believe Jesus created everything. Everything that was ever created was created through Jesus." You said yes.

[00:11:45]>> Uhhuh.

[00:11:45]>> He then asked you, "Was Jesus created?"

[00:11:47]You said yes. So then he asked you then so since everything that has been created was created through Jesus >> then was Jesus created through Jesus.

[00:11:58]>> No >> then that means not everything >> so that means not everything was created through Jesus.

[00:12:04]>> Yes. Yes. Because the context is the context is that Jesus is talking about the Bible is talking about Jesus creating creation. So, >> is Jesus is is Jesus creation?

[00:12:18]>> Is Jesus creation?

[00:12:20]>> You're taking out of context.

[00:12:22]>> Is Jesus part of creation, brother?

[00:12:24]>> Jesus is a created unique being.

[00:12:27]>> So, he's part of creation. Correct.

[00:12:28]>> Wait, wait, wait. He is part of Yahweh creation.

[00:12:32]>> So, is he part of creation or not?

[00:12:35]>> He's not a part of the creation that he created.

[00:12:38]>> Is he part of creation or not?

[00:12:42]Not >> brother. Hey source material, brother.

[00:12:48]>> Look, man. I'm pretty sure you I'm pretty sure you and I would have a good time.

[00:12:52]>> We can probably get some good barbecue.

[00:12:54]>> Don't run.

[00:12:55]>> I got you, man. I got you. I got you. I got you.

[00:12:58]>> Don't run.

[00:12:58]>> I love you. I love you, man. I'm praying for you.

[00:13:00]>> You don't love me, bro. Don't Don't lie, man. But don't >> I do I love you, bro. Please reflect on this, man. Watch your clip back, man.

[00:13:08]>> There's nothing more you can do, man.

[00:13:10]Watch your clip back, bro. There's no possible way that we could continue that.

[00:13:16]No possible way.

[00:13:18]>> Watch your clip back. Let it sink in.

[00:13:20]Come back when you get down. Do some self. Go ahead, watch your clip and start again. Come back when you get down.

[00:13:26]>> DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST UNTIL THEN. YOU messed up. Don't request up. Go stud.

[00:13:30]You messed up. Don't request up. Go stud. You messed up. Don't request up.

[00:13:34]Go stud. You messed up. Don't request UP. GO STUD.

[00:13:38]WATCH YOUR CLIP BACK. WATCH YOUR CLIP BACK. Watch your clip back. Watch your clip back. Watch your clip back. Watch your clip back. WATCH YOUR CLIP BACK.

[00:13:46]WATCH YOUR CLIP BACK. WATCH YOUR CLIP BACK. OKAY.

[00:13:50]>> Sometimes people need to just go watch their clip back and reflect. Go study, man. You done messed up, so don't request up and do this.