Henry Nowak Murder: Family Calls For An End To Knife Exemptions | Will Humphries

追加: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]We're going to be reflecting constantly on this murder of Henry Novak. Now we've seen the the body cam footage. Now we know how the police treated him even more clearly and how they refused to help him as he lay dying because it would appear they were frightened to be accused of racism. Looks like Nigel Farage is going to be saying something at 8:00 this morning. We'll try and work out what he's going to be saying about that and bring that to you as well. But it's a it's a case, whatever the politics of it, that it interests us, I think, from a point of view of justice and how uh justice has been allowed to not function in this case. So we'll be talking about that over the course of the morning as well. Andrew Neil will be presenting the Times at 1:00.

[00:00:33]Always worth listening to him. Jane and Fee are on air from 2:00 and then John Pienaar will bring you Times Radio Drive from 4:00.

[00:00:40]>> It is 7:35.

[00:00:43]The Prime Minister has called the murder of Henry Novak an awful and shocking case. Henry was an 18-year-old student walking home from a night out in Southampton when he was stabbed five times by a stranger, Vikram Digwa. The killer used a knife, which he says he was allowed to carry because of his Sikh faith. Digwa also filmed films Henry fleeing before taking close-ups of his victim lying on the ground. When police arrived at the scene, Digwa lied to them saying that Novak had racially abused him and knocked his turban off prompting police to handcuff the teenager on the floor in the dark before they discovered his fatal wounds. The police have released camera footage of the incident with the family's permission and a warning and I I I will say this really clearly, what you are about to hear is really upsetting. Um you may want to take some time uh if there are children listening this morning just to turn the radio down for around 13 seconds.

[00:01:38]>> Oh.

[00:01:38]Help me.

[00:01:40]>> Stabbed blood.

[00:01:41]Stabbed blood.

[00:01:42]>> What's happened to you, all right?

[00:01:44]>> I've been stabbed.

[00:01:46]>> You've been stabbed? Whereabouts?

[00:01:49]I don't think you have, mate.

[00:01:52]>> That guy says that, the copper. That's going to that's going to echo around his skull for the remainder of his life. I don't think you have, mate. Because he of course he had and he was dying and you can hear it in his voice his inability to frame his words as well.

[00:02:04]After he was cuffed, this is Henry here, the police continued with the arrest as Henry was bleeding. We're going to play another chunk of it now. Um so just imagine, if you've not seen the video, this is a guy bleeding to death that no one acknowledges or realizes that and is in the process of being handcuffed.

[00:02:20]>> At the moment you are under arrest.

[00:02:21]That's for assault. You do not have to say anything. May harm your defense. If you do not mention your own defense when questioned. So we'll see you later on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence, all right?

[00:02:30]>> He's going to be sick, I think.

[00:02:31]>> I know.

[00:02:43]>> That's what you need to call it.

[00:02:47]>> Yeah, um we've got this male. He's been beat up.

[00:02:51]Um are we able to get an ambulance, please?

[00:02:56]I'm looking at his pupils. They aren't even reacting.

[00:02:59]>> Well, those are the voices of the police officers attending the scene that you can hear there. Will Humphreys is the Times Southwestern countryside correspondent and joins us now. Good morning, Will.

[00:03:08]>> Morning, Kate.

[00:03:09]>> It's a really shocking case. Uh the family are obviously deeply, deeply distressed by it. Many of our listeners and I'm sure the wider country are are feeling the same way this morning.

[00:03:19]There are now questions and they were raised by the judge in this particular case about the carrying of knives and it is obviously of the Sikh faith for many people to carry knives. But but what was different about this particular incident?

[00:03:35]>> Yeah, so Sikhs uh have a protection under the law to carry what what is referred to as a kirpan, which is one of their sort of five sacred things that they have to wear on their body.

[00:03:45]Um and normally that is a sort of curved, small bladed uh weapon that is normally concealed.

[00:03:53]Um what Digwa was a part of and his family were part of was a sort of specific order of Sikhs that traditionally carried two blades. Uh and in this case, Digwa was carrying a second, much larger, or over 8-in long, straight blade. Which, uh particular feature of that, um I think it's important that people know is that it didn't really create much of an exit wound. It didn't create massive amounts of external bleeding. There was huge amounts of internal bleeding.

[00:04:23]So, when police arrived and made what has to be, when you view the video, it looks like very cursory checks of whether he is stabbed. It it amounts to someone lifting an untucked shirt for about 2 seconds and not seeing blood around the sort of underwear waistband.

[00:04:39]They didn't sort of lift his shirt completely up. Um on very, very initial viewing, you wouldn't have known that he was bleeding heavily.

[00:04:49]>> And And one of the features of this particular incident was the fact that there were two knives being carried, two of these ceremonial um daggers. And there was a bit of controversy about whether because not all Sikhs choose to carry one larger knife, in this case, I think it's 21-cm blade.

[00:05:06]Um and also carry it publicly, openly.

[00:05:09]Um which is what uh Vikram Digwa had done. Is there any possibility that this could be reviewed? I mean, that's certainly what the family calling for, that they are saying that they will not let this issue go now, and that that they are going to campaign on it.

[00:05:23]>> Yeah, I mean, the the family has has said very specifically not about the second blade, but about they think it's wrong that anyone should be able to carry uh a bladed weapon in public. Um they did not sort of they weren't drawn or didn't mention explicitly religions or or faiths, but they just said anyone shouldn't be allowed to do that. Um and that's something that's been echoed by Reform.

[00:05:47]As you said, Nigel Farage is is expected to make some sort of statement later this morning. As you say, sort of home spokesperson has already come out and explicitly said under a Reform government all religious exemptions for carrying a blade will will go. Only the the police should be able to carry offensive weapons.

[00:06:06]>> Yeah, and we will hear as you say, we will hear from Nigel Farage this morning at 8:00 and we'll we'll get the the latest analysis on whatever the Reform UK leader has to say about this case. I mean, there are also questions well for the police in this and there is an investigation. The IOPC are looking at what happened. As you say, watching that footage, listening to that footage, it becomes clear quite quickly that the police had arrived at that scene and taken a certain view. What do we know of the officers involved and and what's happened to them since this incident?

[00:06:39]>> Yeah, so we don't know anything about the officers at the moment. The IOPC sort of investigation is is in very early stages and that will take its course. What we do know is from the the sort of 3-minute video that was released late last night by police. And we also have the 999 audio. So, that lasts about 12 minutes and is Bigwa's brother sort of relaying what his his brother has told him has happened. They say it was it was a religious um a racist assault. Um that he had pulled his turban off, attacked him, and that he was drunk um and that it was a sort of drunken racist attack. So, police arrive at the scene thinking they are dealing with a a racist white person who's attacked a Sikh man.

[00:07:25]And when police arrive in the video footage, um Henry is slurring, he's slumped over on the floor.

[00:07:34]Um he's he's bleeding from the mouth. Um and the the family say um Bigwa family say, "Oh, no, he's fallen over a fence and that's why he's bleeding from the mouth."

[00:07:45]Um, and it appears that police, and they probably deal with this a huge amount of times on a Friday, Saturday night, Sunday night in Southampton, they think they're dealing with a slumped over drunken, um, person and they proceed to to treat him like that without doing very extensive checks on whether actually something else is going on. And you can hear right at the end of the the video there, about 3 minutes in, someone shining a light in his eyes and saying, "His pupils aren't responding." Now, that that's a really serious sign cuz that's a sign of, normally, a a massive medical emergency. Um, and it's only really uh, a few moments later when they realize that he is actually severely stabbed that they uncuff him and start CPR. It has to be said that it was made very clear during the the trial that even if police had arrived and started CPR straight, you know, started medical attention straight away, police would not have been able to save Henry due to the the severity of his internal wounds.

[00:08:45]>> Yeah, but I suppose for the family, I mean, the point is, and that's what people find so distressing, is is that the very last thing that he heard when he was still able to hear was being read his his rights by the police and he was handcuffed despite those pleas. He was 18 years old. Um, Will, just finally, you mentioned, uh, the family of, um, of Digwa.

[00:09:07]Will there be any repercussions for his brother who was also there at the scene?

[00:09:11]And I And And his mother, who I believe also had a role in this case.

[00:09:16]>> Yes, so his mother, um, removed the the murder weapon from the scene.

[00:09:22]She's been found guilty of assisting an offender and she's going to be sentenced at a later date.

[00:09:28]But Digwa's brother and father are both appearing in Magistrates Court today, um, in Southampton for, alongside Digwa himself, for a series of weapons offenses because police found basically an arsenal of bladed weapons, knuckle dusters, an air rifle, number of machetes, swords in their home, a kirpan also in a car and not on a person so there's no defense for that.

[00:09:56]So there's a series of weapons offenses that the men the men in the family are now going to be facing through the courts as well.

[00:10:03]>> And these were not candid ceremonial daggers, these are separate to that.

[00:10:07]>> Yeah, some of them are Japanese fighting weapons.

[00:10:11]>> Will Humphreys, Times Southwestern countryside correspondent who's been following the case. Thank you very much for joining us on the program this morning.

[00:10:18]>> Thanks.

[00:10:19]>> He was really clear. I'm so glad we had him on actually to explain all of that.

[00:10:21]So I think we've really got a better understanding of it. I mean, we are not a sort of political correctness gone mad show, are we?

[00:10:27]>> No.

[00:10:28]>> So I think we preface that by by saying that. It cannot be right, can it?

[00:10:34]In a modern country for people to to claim the ability to carry weapons under the auspices of a religious faith.

[00:10:41]It is not acceptable in society to carry knives, full stop, end of story.

[00:10:46]And I know not all Sikhs do it. There is no justification. If your faith says you're required to carry a knife, then you have to find a way around that.

[00:10:53]You have to carry a fake knife or you have to reassess your faith or you have to reassess your ability to live in a society that doesn't welcome knives.

[00:10:59]>> Well, I think a a lot of people do do satisfy this particular necessity in their religion by wearing a small you know, token or a motif around their neck or a or a fake version of something or or the vast majority of of Sikh people will also have been affected negatively by this case.

[00:11:18]>> Yeah.

[00:11:18]>> For people now looking at them and thinking, well, hang on a minute, you know, that's not right that you have this and and and they now feel under threat and actually that's what the judge in this case said. You know, they said to to Digwa that you've brought shame on on your own religion and on think?

[00:11:32]>> be this exemption, should there? That exemption is madness.

[00:11:35]>> No, but potentially no. But I think what we've also got to be And I don't It's difficult, isn't it? You are talking about a specific case here, and I think Will gave us the context really clearly there. This is a guy that is not adhering to the faith in the way that the vast majority of people do.

[00:11:51]>> that.

[00:11:51]>> So that's a separate issue to to this guy who is who is walking around with a 21-cm weapon basically publicly displayed. And in this case, he's used it to to attack five times.

[00:12:02]Incidentally, two of those knife wounds were in his back.

[00:12:07]>> Yeah.

[00:12:07]>> So I mean, there's obviously something much deeper that's going on.

[00:12:10]>> all of that, but we have to we have to have a policy reaction to that. One of them can must be there's no justification for carrying knives.

[00:12:15]That's not a reasonable argument. And the other thing is, how do you create a police force when they get confronted by claims of racism that they don't follow a a a runnels of thinking that is dangerous. You hear in their voices, they're not willing to believe the lad on the floor. They're willing to believe the guy shouting racist.

[00:12:33]>> Well, even if you did think I mean, the thing about this scene this this particular scene is that both of the people who were involved were there.

[00:12:39]Nobody was fighting one another at that point. Nobody was running away. And also, even if you turned up and you thought this is a young lad who's clearly had too much to drink and he's fallen over a fence. He's bleeding from the mouth and you think he might be drunk, you don't handcuff somebody in that situation just whether or not he'd been stabbed. Because it's it's a safeguarding thing. You just don't do it.

[00:12:56]>> have just said, "You stand over there.

[00:12:58]We'll look at this guy and then we'll bring everything back." I mean, it's I mean, and look, we're we're not police and people make the point and Nick Thomas-Symonds made the point, you know, they do run toward they run toward danger. I do accept that point entirely.

[00:13:08]But we are we're having to reflect now on where this case has left us.