“Keep Talking And You’re Going To LOCKUP!” — Judge Oakley DESTROYS Sovereign Citizen

Added: 2026-05-21

[00:00:00]I'm going to put you in the lock up.

[00:00:02]If you can't sit there without making any noise, you'll be removed from the courtroom. Do you understand that? Uh hold on. You don't talk. Yes, hold Cuz I'll remove you from the courtroom.

[00:00:13]She said she stepped out of the front door onto the porch. Your client came out and they had the confrontation on the porch. Is that my name? No, you can't. I got six exams today and I don't need to hear the same stuff four times.

[00:00:26]So, ask a new question that elicits new information. If I may be so presumptuous, I want to ask you a few questions for you say as well. If you don't understand the questions I have, just which is entirely probable, uh just re- re-ask or ask me to re-ask the question those to me.

[00:00:43]Don't try to guess. Mr. Kaplan, take care of the matter at hand, too.

[00:00:47]Isn't it true you lived as Ms. G's neighbor for over 3 years?

[00:00:52]Yes.

[00:00:53]And in that time since you've lived with her, is it fair to say that there was a period where you weren't as amicable with her than you are now? Objection, relevancy. Doesn't establish an element of the crime or discriminate on the They could be best friends or mortal enemies.

[00:01:12]If if you're honored, if I may continue with the line of questioning, to see where I'm going with this.

[00:01:18]Without a response to the relevancy objection?

[00:01:21]I think it's entirely relevant to those to the reason that the complaining witness made the calls to the police. It goes to the nature of why the uh matter escalated in the first place that day as to what she saw, as to what other complaining witnesses saw.

[00:01:39]I think to narrow it down to the element of whether Ms. G had a taser that day or not is a little too narrow for the scope to limit to songs.

[00:01:52]Whether or not she pointed the taser at her or she didn't point the taser at her, Kevin, that's what we're here to discuss. We're not here to determine whether they're best buddies or mortal enemies. It It In fact, though, your honor, we are because one of the essential elements of the crime is whether Miss Sigsby was truly afraid of what So, if she know doesn't know her at all, as she testified, or whether she does know her, and this is just an an issue between the two of them where she knew that Miss G was actually not going to go over there and done and fire at her, but it was a continuing issue between the two of them, then that does impact Miss Sigsby's state of mind, whether she was in fear or not.

[00:02:34]Go ahead. One is assault, sorry.

[00:02:37]No, you're right. Go ahead. One is assault can be proven one of two ways.

[00:02:40]It's either that by attempting to batter me, or by attempting to place somebody in fear of something that battered me with a dangerous weapon. So, I don't see how this inquiry must continue with this line of This inquiry doesn't disprove anything. However, might be interesting.

[00:02:55]Maybe a jury wants to hear the details, but you don't need to know those details.

[00:02:58]Then, your honor, it goes also into Miss G's state of mind, and whether they how well they know each other it is absolutely relevant to what Miss G intended that day. I don't think her state of mind is relevant at all.

[00:03:11]It's whether or not the alleged victim was put in fear.

[00:03:15]Well, then I stand by my previous response. I do think that the level to which she knows Miss G, if she had just moved in, she's never seen her before, or if she's seen her as her next door neighbor for the last 3 years, is relevant to whether she was in fear for her life. I will allow very limited questioning on that specific issue. What this witness knew about that lady's propensity for threats or violence.

[00:03:42]Because that's what you're saying.

[00:03:45]Thank you.

[00:03:46]So, Miss Sigsby, let me back up before we got a little sidetracked. I think my last question was you live next door to this G for 3 years.

[00:03:56]For all the 3 years, right? Yes.

[00:03:59]And so over that time how many conversations have you had?

[00:04:07]Probably five.

[00:04:07]>> I object to the relevancy.

[00:04:09]Probably five.

[00:04:10]>> Like five or six. Okay. Sharing stuff.

[00:04:12]All right.

[00:04:13]How many conversations she's had?

[00:04:16]Oh, oh, you don't talk.

[00:04:19]Cuz I'll remove you from the courtroom.

[00:04:23]The issue is whether or not she thinks this lady has the ability to make a to if a threat is serious. That's what you were relying on, right? Okay. So, whether or not they've had 40 conversations or 4,000 conversations doesn't get you there. Not in a limited lighting questioning. So, maybe you got to ask her specific questions about threats or violence.

[00:04:47]Does this G ever before the day of talking about hearing any threats towards you?

[00:04:53]Objection.

[00:04:54]It's not relevant on the day in question. That's what we're concerned with. I'll allow it. I'll allow it on a limited basis.

[00:05:02]Yes, before the day in question.

[00:05:05]I wouldn't say threatening. Okay. That I know. Like, I didn't know they like that. The The first time I met her, she called the cops on me.

[00:05:15]Because she said I parked in her parking spot. I've always tried to stay away from her.

[00:05:19]>> I object to the relevancy. Yeah, let's move on.

[00:05:24]I did not Okay, there's no question.

[00:05:30]Okay.

[00:05:31]Um You're on a roll.

[00:05:37]I I believe Mr. Gavin needs a ruling when she's answering the question.

[00:05:43]That [clears throat] goes to her.

[00:05:45]And She was talking about your client calling the cops on her because of parking violation. Right. And I believe before that you were just saying that you had about five conversations.

[00:05:57]Very limited conversation.

[00:05:59]Well, I'm I'm asking you about those limited conversations.

[00:06:03]>> We object as irrelevant.

[00:06:06]And in those limited conversations, your testimony is before the day that we're testifying about today, she had never made a threat to us.

[00:06:17]She actually has the problem. She's not an element of the crime.

[00:06:21]I'm allowing it.

[00:06:22]She has not has not threatened me, but she has done stuff to try to provoke me.

[00:06:30]That's what she always has been doing, and I kept forgiving her. I just want peace.

[00:06:35]What was she doing to provoke you?

[00:06:36]Objection, she has not done anything to provoke her. Okay. Okay, ma'am. Ma'am.

[00:06:41]Ma'am. I don't know, maybe you've never watched a show on TV where there's a trial, but when an attorney stands up and says object, the witness doesn't talk.

[00:06:48]Okay?

[00:06:49]Make your objection. We're not an element of the crime.

[00:06:52]Response.

[00:06:54]You're right. I see if I can request for an instruction, we're going to get the same objection because we have them every single question. It is an essential element of the crime. I'm keeping my questions very limited to what you narrowed the scope of this line of questioning to, and we're still getting an objection every time. It seems like we're clearly trying to interfere with the witness's testimony. I'm asking very specifically about her frame of mind on that day.

[00:07:23]That is contextualized by the history she has with my client.

[00:07:27]I'll allow it.

[00:07:31]What was my What was my client being provoked by?

[00:07:35]Staring at her grandma from door after I went to work.

[00:07:40]When did that happen? We we This trying to introduce under 404B and they're being introduced against her his client.

[00:07:47]>> If he wants to introduce them, let him.

[00:07:50]I get to decide that today.

[00:07:54]Um and she has followed me.

[00:08:00]I've had two two pieces of art after the black face cuz she was following me and my daughter twice.

[00:08:09]And when in close proximity to the day in question that were just buying thoughts today, did the two instances that you just described to the best of your knowledge? When did they happen?

[00:08:21]>> Yeah. Um about a week ago two weeks ago.

[00:08:26]Okay, so did this My initial question was um how much you interacted with with G my client before the day which Okay.

[00:08:41]Well, we object. This is asked and answered and it's also non-responsive.

[00:08:45]And it's confusing. So this incident didn't happen in January. Yes, ma'am?

[00:08:48]Yes.

[00:08:49]>> The taser incident.

[00:08:50]>> Yes. The incident with the hamburger and the following was that before January or after January?

[00:08:54]>> Before. Okay. About two or three weeks before? Uh no about a year.

[00:08:59]Move on.

[00:09:01]Okay. So any other instances of provocation that that you're aware of seeing or hearing from my client besides the hamburger, hiding in the dome, the incident of stalking where the vehicle pulled in this Yes. That good? Before January.

[00:09:21]>> I'm sorry. Before January.

[00:09:23]Um there was incidents where she would leave like trying to provoke me or she would try to I don't know.

[00:09:36]get information out of me apparently because of the stuff that she was saying on the day of the incident of information that she knew and the only way that she would know that information is if she was told.

[00:09:51]Hold it.

[00:09:53]Go ahead.

[00:10:03]My initial question is I agree with Mr. G is no relevant.

[00:10:11]But I Just to close this line of question, was there any other incident regard with the Let me re-ask. Besides what you've already testified about before the incident in January, do you have any other interactions with my client where she either provoked you or allegedly threatened you?

[00:10:35]No.

[00:10:36]Okay.

[00:10:37]Were you looking for a reason to call police on the street? No.

[00:10:43]Why did um On the day in question uh in January uh Isn't it true that your mother-in-law was involved in the incident? Your Honor I don't have a mother-in-law. The actual answer is Okay.

[00:11:05]Your Honor, this is putting anything in controversy. Well, actually Your Honor, the response is I'm moving to the day in question and this there is another witness not cited. It's it's a familiar relation and I'll put that on the record. But absolutely she was involved.

[00:11:21]Um she bore witness to Ms. G being there and my line of questioning is about where ultimately the plaintiff witness was when the alleged threats were We have a trial within the trial Yeah, and she's already testified that they were approximately 6 or 7 ft away when the taser was involved.

[00:11:43]So I don't know what more you're going to get about proximity.

[00:11:46]Well, then let me narrow it down, please your honor.

[00:11:49]Try.

[00:11:50]Thank you your honor. It is is that my line of questioning is specifically where were you >> [clears throat] >> in terms of your proximity to your doorway of your apartment when Miss G allegedly threatened with her taser, alleged taser. I was on my front porch next to my front door by the like the farthest but right here so I just walked out. You had just walked out of your porch. I just walked out of my house. And to your front porch.

[00:12:26]>> Yes, out to my front porch.

[00:12:28]>> Thank you.

[00:12:29]My So you had just walked out of your house out to your porch.

[00:12:36]Shouldn't this have been asked and answered? It has. Go ahead.

[00:12:40]And was that the first time you saw Miss G with what you believe was a taser?

[00:12:48]Yes, cuz she zapped at me.

[00:12:51]Hold on, if you could just answer the questions that I asked you, please.

[00:12:56]When when did she zap at you?

[00:12:59]When she walked outside.

[00:13:01]She walked outside screaming talking about she had a gun in the house. She was going to shoot me with that and she had the taser in her hands and she zapped it three times at me. Okay, that was when you came out of your house.

[00:13:14]Yes.

[00:13:15]So where was it I'm being distracted by the I'm going to I'm going to put you in the lockup.

[00:13:23]If you can't sit there without making any noise, you'll be removed from the courtroom. Do you understand that?

[00:13:33]Okay, so my question really was when Ms. G when did Ms. G threaten me with the taser? Was it before you went into your house?

[00:13:51]After you went in and came back out of your house? Both?

[00:13:54]>> She said she stepped out of the front door onto the porch. Your client came out and they had the confrontation on the porch. If I may No, you can't. I got six exams today and I don't need to hear the same stuff four times. You can ask a new question that elicits new information.

[00:14:11]Okay, where was Ms. G when she threatened you with the taser? I have front porch. Where in proximity to your house is her front porch? Like 6 >> 6 or 7 ft away. Sit down. You're done with cross. Do you have any redirect?

[00:14:28]>> No redirect. Thank you. I'd like to put my objection on the record.

[00:14:32]>> Feel free.

[00:14:34]Any other witnesses?

[00:14:37]Any defense witnesses?

[00:14:39]No. Any argument? Yes, your honor. The witness testified tasing was pointed at her distance of 6 to 7 ft. She was afraid and she fearful for her life.

[00:14:50]Thank you.

[00:14:52]Your honor, we don't believe the elements of felony assault with a uh felonious weapon occurred here. We believe if anything, the charge should be dropped to misdemeanor assault. Um and we ask that he would find that the prosecutor did not meet his threshold for preliminary exam and would not bind the assault. Thank you. Because Because there was no testimony about a felonious weapon?

[00:15:20]Your honor I'm not familiar with what what a felonious weapon is.

[00:15:24]Your honor I would have gotten into more details regarding what Mrs. That would what our that would be complaining witness received a weapon speed. I will raise that argument for circuit court. I don't believe that it's a felonious weapon in this case. Okay, I don't even know what a felonious weapon is. Is that the same thing as a dangerous weapon?

[00:15:45]I don't believe that it meets the definition of a dangerous weapon made with a wooden structure. Okay.

[00:15:54]Bound over. AOI is next week, 9:00 a.m.

[00:15:59]Thank you, your honor.

[00:16:06]Say again?

[00:16:07]The watch.

[00:16:08]Oh, yeah, you can step down, ma'am.

[00:16:09]Watch your step.

[00:16:15]What is today?

[00:16:16]Today is the 19th.

[00:16:18]>> Yeah, so 26th.

[00:16:31]No.

[00:16:32]Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:37]No, she's in costume. Oh, she's not? Oh, she had green on. I thought Okay.

[00:16:54]Who? What's her name?

[00:16:58]Okay, what what about Avante, the the 9:45?

[00:17:03]Avante, 9:45.

[00:17:06]I was going to get in Avante. She's very close, ready to go. Who?

[00:17:12]Just get her in here.

[00:17:14]So, it's it's going on an hour.

[00:17:33]Uh-oh.

[00:17:35]Who changed the date stamp today to the 20th?

[00:17:52]Here, you're right.

[00:17:53]>> All right. Okay. Hey Carrie, how are you?

[00:17:57]Better than I deserve, Carrie.

[00:18:14]Appearance is on a bond.

[00:18:26]Good morning, sir.

[00:18:28]Counsel, you got a plea worked out? Tell me about it, please.

[00:18:32]Unlawful transport and dismissal of Yeah, we only had one count, right? All right. No contest.

[00:18:47]That was my next question. All right, sir, do you understand your rights and your options after discussing same with counsel?

[00:18:54]And you understand the possible penalty for the added charge?

[00:18:57]All right, and understanding that, you're pleading no contest today, is that correct? Do you understand that when you say no contest, you're literally literally saying to me, "Judge, I'm not fighting that charge."

[00:19:05]Do you understand that? All right.

[00:19:07]Counsel, I've got an incident date of April 6th, 2025. If you can get me the facts I need. Thank you, your honor. Um, your honor, if this case were to proceed to trial, the people would be able to show that on April 6th of 2025 upon Ecorse Road and Harrison Street in the city of Romulus, county of Wayne, state of Michigan, that Andre Lavon did uh possess a weapon in a motor vehicle without the proper permits or license here to do so.

[00:19:40]And um He thinks what he got is not according to law. Okay.

[00:19:47]Ms. Kaplan, you satisfied? Yes, we are, thank you, Mr. Ryan. Satisfied?

[00:19:51]Court satisfied. I'll dismiss the original count one felony.

[00:19:55]Um, any reason not to sentence right now? We need to sentence him. All right. Tell me something about your guy.

[00:20:03]Well, we consider fines and costs in this matter. Um, my client only criminal history is from 22 years ago. He owns his own business. He has a family, has children. He is a professional law-abiding citizen except for what he did, which he's told me he was in possession of it out of state.

[00:20:24]He realized when he brought it back from that trip that the law is different in this state since he was able to pick this up in a gift shop. So, now that he knows that this won't be happening again. Okay. What's your business? I'm sorry, go ahead, Ms. Kaplan. Mr. Catrell, thank you.

[00:20:40]At the age of 47, he has no criminal record other than he's offensive and happened 22 years Yep.

[00:20:45]Yep.

[00:20:48]I think he I think he just took your side.

[00:20:51]Just for the record, he did not.

[00:20:54]What business are you in?

[00:20:57]What do What What do you do?

[00:21:00]Okay.

[00:21:02]Okay. Who do you deliver for? Are you one of those guys like delivers for Home Depot and stuff?

[00:21:08]Well, whatever, yeah. Yeah. deliver that.

[00:21:10]Okay. Okay.

[00:21:12]Um, don't feel that you have to, but is there anything you want to tell me before I sentence you?

[00:21:16]No. All right.

[00:21:17]Counsel, anything else?

[00:21:22]I do, too.

[00:21:28]All right, fine. It costs you $500. Can you pay it today, sir, or do you need to talk options?

[00:21:33]Yeah.

[00:21:34]Go downstairs and talk about your options.

[00:21:37]All right, felony's dismissed. Have a good day, counsel. Thank you, your honor. You're welcome.

[00:21:45]What do we got next?

[00:21:46]Hadley is Hadley against Devonte Hadley.

[00:21:51]And appearance is on Hadley.

[00:21:53]Stephen Kaplan on the people. And your honor, I'll bring one of your staff members up front so she's Terry Markum, B84592, representing Devonte Hadley.

[00:22:01]Seated to my left. How do you plead?

[00:22:03]Not guilty, your honor.

[00:22:05]Thank you. Sit.

[00:22:07]You're all right, sit.

[00:22:09]We holding?

[00:22:11]I mean Yeah. Thank you, your honor. here with Detective Nace. He has made the only like effort to produce a witness.

[00:22:18]We're both disappointed the witness isn't here.

[00:22:20]I don't want to waste your time, judge.

[00:22:22]Would you mind if he stayed on the record the opportunity? Yeah, go ahead, detective.

[00:22:28]Based on police uh, I reached out to one of the enterprise uh, um, personnel people.

[00:22:35]Based on uh, they worked with uh, this case.

[00:22:38]Uh, that employee no longer works there and they um, had a relatively common name, therefore I was unable to uh, locate them through every database that I used.

[00:22:48]Uh, who are you involved I believe actually was um, a third party that was actually transporting uh, the funding and I contacted them. Uh, didn't speak.

[00:22:58]Um, he was a little blunt.

[00:23:01]In office, if you will, and I him to call me back which I did and he never answered me. So all attempts have failed. My apologies for that.

[00:23:10]All right.

[00:23:11]Motion?

[00:23:12]Your honor, I see the people are not ready to proceed. We move for dismissal without prejudice. Dismissed without?

[00:23:17]Good luck.

[00:23:19]Thank you.

[00:23:33]So we're on a strangler case. Mhm.

[00:23:36]We've got a defense We've got a victim.

[00:23:38]Mhm.

[00:23:39]No defendant and that's curious, too. Okay. Yep.

[00:23:44]I don't know if we have the attorney.

[00:23:46]They carry.

[00:23:48]They contact with Stringer?

[00:23:51]She should be here. She told me she had a flat. Ah, okay. Okay. But you've you've been in contact. Okay.

[00:23:58]Dismissed with what? Bonville? In custody, right? He's in custody. I don't know if he's here.

[00:24:03]>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

[00:24:06]Bonville is in the machine like what is he doing for the treatment for the charges?

[00:24:10]Oh, that's right. She's in retail fraud.

[00:24:12]That's what she's doing.

[00:25:03]>> My client is okay with no contact, please. They have my number.

[00:25:06]Okay.

[00:25:09]Uh yes, your honor. You satisfied with the facts, Mr. Kaplan?

[00:25:12]Yes, your honor. Mr. Kaplan flashed at other dates showing the complaint judge the Charlotte lady did a Friday at 5:30 at the home, not in her home, caused a slight amount of damage to the front door, and also tried to enter the home unsuccessfully without permission.

[00:25:29]Satisfied? Satisfied. I am too. I'll dismiss the original count one.

[00:25:33]Um I'm inclined to send her for a pre-sentence investigation, but I'll let you try to talk me out of it. Your honor, thank you. If I may, this step this was an isolated incident.

[00:25:43]It was actually a mistake made maybe she was associating with a bad Andre somewhere and I may be wrong. She seems to be doing well. I think he did substance today.

[00:25:53]I agree, judge.

[00:25:54]>> Okay. The $500 restitution that's that's set there. Um I I I believe that you can come up with a reasonable probation on the spot, honestly. Okay.

[00:26:07]All right.

[00:26:09]Go ahead. Your honor, Ms. Finger is 24 years old. This is her first contact with the crime system. I like Mr. Kaplan said, I think this was an isolated incident.

[00:26:20]I She has worked before. She's looking for work now. I think this uh penny point may it did blow her to secure her next job.

[00:26:29]Um she intends to, you know, re-enter the workforce. Okay. Um grateful for the missing your reduction.

[00:26:37]Hope that these events get expunged sometime soon.

[00:26:40]Um in the meantime, your honor, we would ask for uh simply imposing the restitution that was in the agreement.

[00:26:49]Um if there would be any probation that it it be um minimally intensive. She lives in Taylor. Yep. So not exactly a stone's throw away.

[00:27:00]So I would just ask that any probation be limited to a few check-ins, maybe a you know alcohol testing. Got you.

[00:27:12]intensive classes anything like that.

[00:27:16]Where do you live now? All right, thank you. All right, Ms. Stringer. Where did you work last time you had a job?

[00:27:23]Who were you working for?

[00:27:28]How long were you there?

[00:27:31]I started like 2 or 3 weeks before.

[00:27:33]Okay.

[00:27:35]How about the job before that? What were you What were you doing?

[00:27:41]Okay. All right, so this is a little bit off topic, but before you leave my building, go downstairs and ask if Mr. Taylor's still here. He shouldn't be at lunch yet. Ask Mr. Taylor what he's got for job opportunities in the area. Like Ronald Mr. Taylor.

[00:27:57]Um he keeps track of um job openings for like entry-level jobs. He's He's usually got a pretty good list, so something might reach out to you.

[00:28:06]All right, anything else you want me to know before I sentence you today?

[00:28:12]No?

[00:28:13]I can't hear you.

[00:28:15]Okay. All right, so I've got a problem with these restitution orders.

[00:28:20]If Do you have the ability to pay $500?

[00:28:26]Not today, but I mean, can you get this paid in the next 5 months, 6 months?

[00:28:32]You sure?

[00:28:34]All right.

[00:28:35]Yeah.

[00:28:38]$300?

[00:28:41]All right.

[00:28:43]Your recommendation, I'll take it. I'm She's not going to argue with you.

[00:28:47]All right. So, you can get that done?

[00:28:52]You got it. Okay.

[00:29:11]Was there any indication there was some kind of substance abuse involved in this?

[00:29:14]No. I don't believe so, Judge Bailey.

[00:29:23]Do you have a driver's license, a valid license to hold on yours?

[00:29:27]Okay.

[00:29:29]All right. Well, the $300 has got to be money cuz that's restitution.

[00:29:32]Um I'll give her the option. I could do some community service or work Excuse me, I could do some work program time and set of fines and costs.

[00:29:41]She's not working right now. She'd just have to be here at 8:00 in the morning.

[00:29:43]She picks the days.

[00:29:45]So, that'd be work program instead of community service.

[00:29:49]Well, I like work program because then she walks out of here, she knows she's got a schedule for X number days. She bangs those days out, she don't have to worry about finding some place to go. She just shows up here and does it. I'll give her or I'll give her fines and costs and give her time to pay.

[00:30:05]Could we just do one in lieu of the other so she can kind of choose?

[00:30:12]All right. So, here's what I'm going to do on um 750.3806 Well, first of all, on both um charges, it's 12 months non-reporting probation. That just means stay out of trouble.

[00:30:25]On the first count, which is the 3806, that one I'm going to put the restitution on that file and $400 fines and costs or 4 days on the court work program.

[00:30:35]On the um attempt illegal entry, it's another $400 fines costs or 4 days on the work program. Um, what I'm inclined to do, counsel, is give her until June 12th on the first file to do the um money or the work days, and then give her until July 15th on the second file.

[00:31:04]So, that way she just knows she's got 30 days to either do the $400. In any event, she's got to get the 300 paid, but she's got the first file she's got 30 days to do the four days or the $400, and then she's got another 30 days to do another 400 or another four days. And if she wants to pay four and do four, how That would be the appreciate or assessment here. Is it possible to just give them a little bit more time? I mean, can we just make it like that?

[00:31:31]Instead of the 30 60-day, make it a 60 90-day situation.

[00:31:37]No, I'm not going to wait that long to find out I got a problem. If If she want If she wants to say, "I'll do the money," then we'll just put her on a payment plan on the money. If she If she can't make the decision today, I got to limit it. But, if she wants to make the decision today, money or time, then we can work with that. But, why don't we pass on this so I can call another file?

[00:31:54]You guys take all the time you need.

[00:31:57]Findley.

[00:32:00]Did you Did you start?

[00:32:06]David Champagne.

[00:32:36]Appearances on the people versus Fonville, please.

[00:32:42]Good morning. Cindy Almon on behalf of the people in mind.

[00:32:45]Good morning again. Let the record show that I'm here by Ashley Hunter 387788 on behalf of Mr. Fonville. Mr. Fonville, can you please state your name? Joseph Fonville. Thank you, sir.

[00:32:56]What do we got?

[00:32:58]Yes, we're ready to proceed, base.

[00:33:00]We are seeking respectfully to call this witness by Zoom.

[00:33:05]Judge, in this case Miss Fisk is not in the state. She's outside of the state.

[00:33:09]The court will judge the lawyer the lawyer with the criminal court will give your honor absolute discretion to allow testimony by Zoom. I know you know that and then I know it.

[00:33:19]And the only stipulation and the remedy that's at the time of need or a 10-court or a refusal to accept. Right. Right, counsel. Uh your honor, at this point the defense objects to Zoom testimony and asks for a dismissal of the charge instead because the witness is not here to testify.

[00:33:38]Uh the court rule that Mr. Collins is referring to, of course, is MCR 6.006, which refers explicitly to its civil equivalent, MCR 2.407.

[00:33:48]2.407 lays out factors for your honor to consider when allowing Zoom testimony for Miss Fisk. Uh a couple of those key factors here are the opportunity for full and effective cross-examination.

[00:34:03]Uh as the court knows, the transcript is produced and say we get to trial, the witness is not available then and the government wants to proceed just on a transcript, that's a confrontation issue. Um and today is not a full and effective opportunity for me to cross-examine Miss Fisk because I can't see her body language, I can't see if she has papers on her lap or on the table, I can't see if there's someone behind the camera coaching her testimony. Um and so cross-examination is therefore limited when we have a few test them on the another one of those factors um is whether there is physical liberty at stake. Obviously, Mr. Fonville is in custody and his physical liberty is at stake in this case.

[00:34:45]Um, and finally, another key factor is the convenience of producing the witness. Ms. Fisk doesn't live out of state, doesn't work out of state. She is on vacation. Um, and that's something that the government should have planned around at the PCC stage when we were scheduling this exam, um, rather than on the day of the exam.

[00:35:04]So, for all of those reasons, we would ask for a dismissal in delivery for testimony.

[00:35:07]>> Thank you. Please sit down. Yeah. Here, it was 600 application where it's trial right now. The preliminary examination where the US Supreme Court has held on many occasions. Now, the Michigan Supreme Court devoted an abundance of effort in devising this rule, which is MCR 6.006 {parentheses} 4. And I'm going to repeat what I said earlier, but the court can issue the Supreme Court can issue discretion. Now, let's assume that Judge O'Brien decides, "You know what? Let's have the witness All right, case dismissed without prejudice. He'll be re-arrested, he'll be re-arraigned, and we'll try him in that district. And if there's any prejudicial statements attorney will be cross-examining him." All right, anything else?

[00:35:50]Nothing further. All right. Thank you for your arguments. I'm going to allow the testimony today by Zoom.

[00:35:55]Ms. Fisk, can you raise your right hand for me?

[00:35:59]Do you swear or affirm tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth today?

[00:36:03]I do. All right.

[00:36:05]Looks like you can put your hand down, ma'am. Looks like you're in an automobile.

[00:36:08]I am.

[00:36:09]Are you alone in that automobile? I am not. We're on our way back again.

[00:36:15]>> I'm Say that again.

[00:36:16]We're on our way back to Michigan. We're in Texas.

[00:36:18]>> Okay.

[00:36:19]All right, so I'm assuming your driver has nothing to do with this case or your employment. No, he does not. Okay. All right. Um, are we ready, Mr. Gavlin?

[00:36:29]Good morning. Go ahead.

[00:36:31]Good morning.

[00:36:33]Judge, I have a question for you. Can you swear in the witness? I did. Thank you, Judge.

[00:36:36]Good morning, Ms. Fass. Can you see me?

[00:36:39]Good morning.

[00:36:40]Can you see me?

[00:36:42]Not great. I'm No, I can't actually.

[00:36:46]Try moving.

[00:36:47]I'm going to Uh try the podium.

[00:36:54]Ms. Fass, can you see me?

[00:36:55]Yes, I can.

[00:36:57]For the record, I am Steve Gavlin with the prosecutor's office.

[00:37:01]Ms. Fass, where do you work?

[00:37:04]Meijer in Belleville.

[00:37:06]How many years have you been working at the Meijer?

[00:37:09]34.

[00:37:11]What street?

[00:37:13]Pardon me?

[00:37:14]What street is the Meijer located on?

[00:37:18]The store.

[00:37:19]Van Buren Township.

[00:37:22]What is your current position with Meijer? Can the witness repeat her last answer for audio file?

[00:37:28]Ms. Fass, give me that address again, please.

[00:37:31]The address is 9701 Belleville Road, Van Buren Township.

[00:37:38]Thank you.

[00:37:40]What is your current position Ms. Fass with Meijer?

[00:37:44]I'm a store detective.

[00:37:46]Can you estimate for Judge Oakley the number of cases you investigated involving shoplifting at retail stores?

[00:37:54]In 34 years? Yes, approximately.

[00:37:58]I I couldn't even guess.

[00:38:00]Are we talking hundreds, thousands? What are we talking? Oh, yes.

[00:38:06]I'd like to take you back in time to April 29th of this year, 2026.

[00:38:13]At about 2:00 p.m., were you working?

[00:38:16]I was.

[00:38:17]Did you have the opportunity on that day to meet a gentleman or a suspected gentleman named Joseph Fanimo?

[00:38:24]I did.

[00:38:26]Did you see Joseph Findo?

[00:38:29]Pardon me?

[00:38:31]Where did you see Joseph Findo?

[00:38:32]Objection, sir. There's a lack of foundation as Alice with this could identify any individual as Joseph Findo.

[00:38:39]This is cross-examination. She can testify she knows him and she That's It's It'll work for cross. Go ahead.

[00:38:46]Thank you.

[00:38:47]Regarding Joseph Findo, where did you first see him on April 29th, 2020?

[00:38:53]In our liquor aisle.

[00:38:56]Where were you when you saw him in the liquor aisle?

[00:38:58]I was in our camera room.

[00:39:01]Describe the liquor aisle first.

[00:39:04]It's an aisle several feet long with liquor.

[00:39:11]Now, when did your store start giving away liquor to people?

[00:39:15]No, they weren't.

[00:39:17]You said that you were able to observe this through surveillance. Can you describe the surveillance used?

[00:39:23]It's closed Go ahead.

[00:39:26]Pardon me?

[00:39:27]Go ahead and describe it.

[00:39:29]It's closed-circuit television. We have cameras throughout the entire store.

[00:39:34]Were the closed-circuit televisions working on this day of April 29th?

[00:39:39]Were they functioning properly?

[00:39:42]Yes, they were.

[00:39:43]How do you know that, Ms. Best?

[00:39:45]I was working them.

[00:39:48]Ms. Best, if you saw Joseph Findo again, do you think you'd recognize him?

[00:39:53]I would.

[00:39:56]Ms. Best, can you look around the courtroom now? Look around the courtroom. Well, she's looking at everything you're looking at on that screen in front of you.

[00:40:11]Look around the courtroom and tell me if you see Joseph Findo, people.

[00:40:16]I can't I'm having a hard time seeing in the courtroom.

[00:40:20]Can we show the counsel table?

[00:40:23]I don't have the ability to do anything with this.

[00:40:27]I can't zoom this screen actually.

[00:40:31]I think it's zoomed in as much the whole courtroom is zoomed in as much as it can.

[00:40:35]>> Yeah, this is what we got.

[00:40:39]That's the main courtroom.

[00:40:44]That's helping a little bit.

[00:40:47]And then Do the other one.

[00:40:52]Other ones. I mean, I'm terribly sorry.

[00:40:54]I can see two people, but I can't I can't see it to Bring me a magnet.

[00:41:04]I am going to object to identification.

[00:41:06]She's got it zoomed as much as it'll zoom. So, hold on guys. It's zoomed as much as it'll zoom. Go ahead. I would object to identification at this point in time.

[00:41:15]Um, I think all the court all the court has done all the court can do in this in this particular instance is literally zoom in on my client and that is incredibly suggestive as to who this witness is supposed to identify in the courtroom. It also looks based on the portrait orientation of Ms. Fifth on zoom that she is on a phone uh which is a small device that's also supported by the fact that she is in a car. That's a small device. She said she can't zoom in.

[00:41:45]Uh I expect that her ability to see even though the court has zoomed in on my client, her ability to see is limited.

[00:41:51]Any identification would be incredibly suggestive and unreliable and so I ask that the court to find something to make it. Well, Ms. Counsel presupposes that she knows my case. I might have another witness who can identify. I would like to proceed with this witness.

[00:42:05]>> Go ahead. What she knows. Go ahead. Ms. Fifth, can you describe the person you saw on CCTV.

[00:42:13]A black male.

[00:42:15]Dark glasses.

[00:42:18]Like black rimmed glasses.

[00:42:20]Wearing all black.

[00:42:22]Had you seen him before at the store?

[00:42:25]I had not.

[00:42:30]What did you notice while he was in the liquor aisle at Meyer?

[00:42:34]Pardon me?

[00:42:35]What did he do while he was in the liquor aisle at Meyer?

[00:42:39]He selected liquor and placed it in his cart. And he days it's limited right now. Sure. So, talk about the ability to do work program. Yep.

[00:42:51]Eight days by July 15th.

[00:42:53]And Mr. will go with that option. Okay.

[00:42:56]Did you want some clarification about this $300 restitution?

[00:42:59]>> Yeah.

[00:43:00]Uh you said it's 12 months out of court of probation. It can be, you know, 300 must be paid by the end of probation.

[00:43:07]Well, I want to pay before then if you can, but I understand she's not working right now.

[00:43:11]Right.

[00:43:12]Are there any specific deadlines that you can put on this? I'll put her on a payment plan. What do you What do you want to pay? How much? How often?

[00:43:20]Make some kind of commitment and we'll we'll set that up.

[00:43:25]Okay. And then you can always pay it off early. And if you get a really good job before you're done with your eight days and you want to pay money instead of doing the days, we'll we'll convert there.

[00:43:35]All right?

[00:43:36]So, I think that we'll sentence with that being 12 months out of court probation, $300 restitution on a payment plan, um eight days in the work program, first four by June 12th, next four by July 15th.

[00:43:50]That's it.

[00:43:51]First by First four by when?

[00:43:54]You said June 12th.

[00:43:55]>> Okay. I thought I thought you said June 4th. I'm like, "No, no, no, that's too quick."

[00:43:59]Okay.

[00:44:00]And next four by July 15th.

[00:44:02]No other terms or conditions.

[00:44:05]Yeah, stay out of trouble. That's what probation's all about.

[00:44:08]Okay, anything else? Nothing. All right, go downstairs, make arrangements for that $50 a month. And we'll always take early money early so you can get out from under that quicker.

[00:44:16]Okay. You're welcome. You're welcome.

[00:44:18]Always a pleasure to counsel.

[00:44:19]Shutting down. That's fine. Joe, you want to turn that TV off? Yeah.

[00:44:23]She kept zapping the taser at me.

[00:44:26]And the courtroom instantly turned chaotic.

[00:44:30]A terrified neighbor testified that a woman stormed outside, pointed a taser at her from just a few feet away, and threatened that she also had a gun inside the house.

[00:44:42]The witness said she was so scared she had to escape through the back door of her own home.

[00:44:48]But the defense attorney fought back hard, arguing the two neighbors had ongoing drama for years, and claiming the alleged victim may have overreacted because of personal tension between them.

[00:45:00]That's when the judge finally snapped, warning people to stop interrupting, threatening to throw someone out of court, and shutting down repeated arguments from both sides.

[00:45:12]Then came the big moment. Despite the defense insisting a taser wasn't a dangerous weapon, the judge wasn't buying it at all. The defendant was officially bound over on the felony assault charge, leaving the courtroom in complete silence.

[00:45:30]Do you think pointing a taser should count as felony assault?

[00:45:34]>> [snorts]