The crypto industry is experiencing a transformative phase characterized by institutional adoption from major players like JP Morgan, Black Rock, and Fidelity, signaling a shift from niche technology to mainstream financial infrastructure. This evolution is driven by the integration of real-world assets (RWAs) on-chain, where credit-backed yield coins generate returns from warehouse facilities and credit lines rather than traditional crypto collateral alone. The market dynamics involve complex interactions between IPOs, capital flows, and price discovery mechanisms, with treasury companies like Hyperliquid Strategies managing token supply through strategic share issuances to maintain market positioning. The universal asset layer concept envisions a future where anyone can permissionlessly access diverse asset classes including equities, commodities, and fixed income products through on-chain platforms, creating a more efficient and accessible financial ecosystem.
🚨LIVE: PURR Huge Numbers? SPCX IPO Coming. Market Holding On By A Thread. Keone & David Schamis Join
Added:[music] [music] Heat. Heat.
[music] >> [music] >> Thank you Lord.
[music] We'll [music] see you around the timeline.
Feels good to be back.
[music] >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are [music] great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast.
>> Adding it to my library every day.
>> Potentially multi-chain deployments.
>> We are at Dev Connect [music] day one here. I'm guessing from space Heat. [music] [music] [music] Heat.
[music] >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat.
[music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.
It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish.
He said it. He finally said it. So bullish is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish.
[music] [music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] [music] Heat.
[music] Heat.
[music] >> [music] [music] >> Corola [music] is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the tigers.
>> Roll up is my favorite.
>> From all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up.
[music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right.
Let's go.
[music] [music] A rollup is headed to the top.
If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top.
>> Rollup is my favorite.
>> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up.
[music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> Zoom out. Institutions aren't coming.
They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go.
[music] Welcome to the nest. See you on the show.
>> Knicks 5, six, seven, whatever it takes.
Snicks.
>> Go Nicks.
>> Yo, Rob scooped this jersey up.
>> Yeah. 20 bucks from the guy on the street outside the hotel.
>> We were rocking this last night >> at the bar. That That is the claim to drunk last night.
>> 30 point comeback.
>> We >> Let's go. Oh, we got [screaming] we got we had some we had a bipolar night last night at a street bar >> from the first half to the second half.
>> My god.
>> What?
>> Whole place cleared out halfway through the game. Halftime place was cleared out. Vibes were down. All the chicks were leaving. It's just bad vibes. This is just bad vibes.
>> I think we all sudden one of one of the guys in our group dropped.
>> Yep. But wait, they were dropping like flies at halftime.
>> 16Z stable coin VC dropped. Not sure what that means about their firm, but uh I'm just saying that's what happened.
Guys, great to have you back. It is Thursday, June 11th, following a big Knicks win last night. Welcome back to the tokenization tower the nest broadcasting live from the financial capital of the world. You're watching the rollup again. Today's Thursday, June 11th. We have a great show ahead >> and we are here with the Plume team uh stacked office this week and we've got a VIP event tonight. So if you guys are in town in New York City, please reach out.
We want to get uh all of our friends here for uh for a great event tonight.
So excited for that. Coming off a great Nick's win and a great show for you guys today. We're going to get into it.
>> Yeah, as always guys, shout out to Plume. We are here at the Nest in the tokenization tower. Plume is building onchain infrastructure for asset management their Nest vault product guys $100 million deposited from EtherFi as of late. Um guys, let's get into the topics. We got a busy show tower markets and weather as always. And then we got Monad's co-founder Kemanad and Hyperlood Strategy CEO David Shamus in the house following their massive massive announcement.
>> They certainly did have a big week last week. Um lot of buying of hype. I think over 2 million hype uh >> and raised cash. So, they were they've been able to do, you know, Sailor did did this. He was able to buy Bitcoin and raise cash. David Sheamus is able to do this as well.
>> And we're going to have both Kone and David in the tower uh coming up later in today's show.
>> Indeed.
>> Indeed, guys. It is a beautiful sunny Dunny sunny Dunny day here in New York.
Let's get into the markets and the weather. We have so many videos and things to show you guys from last year.
>> Shout out to Treasure for powering today's topics, guys. We've had a string of great shows. Uh we've obviously got our new overlay system here. Looking very, very nice. So, we are excited. And uh hit us up in the chat.
>> Get fired up. Use code T use code rollup10.io to grab your treasure today. Guys, let's get into the markets into the weather.
Before we do, let me tell you about Fracks, our premier stable coin [laughter] partner. Open, stable, borderless. For for more information, start using Houston in the future of digital money, visit frack.com.
Guys, it is 87 sweaty degrees in New York City today following the Knicks win. The city's electrified right now.
>> It really, it really is. There is energy happening right here in the capital.
>> Um, pretty incredible. Uh, everyone's honking in the street last night.
They're running around. Everyone's doing body slams and high-fiving each other in the street. It's like Knicks and five everywhere. I mean, comeback of the century. Greatest comeback in NBA Finals history.
>> History.
>> It feels like 91. It is sweaty here today. I'm going to be sweating for sure, but the boys are up on Nixon 5, six, seven. Really, whatever it takes. I mean, I hear Nixon five. I hear Nixon six. Whatever it is, uh Knicks are taking this one home.
>> Yeah.
>> Insane game.
>> Yeah.
>> Absolutely incredible. Uh markets are bouncing back a little bit. Uh, it's hot, it's sweaty, place is on fire.
People were climbing the light poles in the street signs in the in near Madison Square Garden last night between 7th and 8th Avenue. They were absolutely >> We had a Spider-Man uh a Spider-Man appearance last night as well. Uh, got a video of that. It was pretty nuts.
>> On my way downtown, uh, this woman was carrying a inflatable banana in the subway. There's just ridiculous things happening across the board.
Ladies and gentlemen, as always, our weather is powered by Relay. Visit relay.link for your crosschain swaps.
Let's move into the markets. Before we do, I'm going to tell you about near or sorry, I'm going to tell you about dinari, all our tokenized US equities partner, bringing real world stocks on chain. Visit dinari.com to do more with your stocks on chain. Guys, we had a little bounce overnight. Bitcoin up about a percent. Uh, ETH down. ETH up a little bit, down a little bit. Salana holding on. Ethan Salana is kind of holding on for dear life here. Chain Link looking all right. Um, Near looking all right. Hyperlink got a nice bounce.
Uh, Bitcoin's kind of holding on the edge of a thread. Perr came out with some big numbers. They got a nice bounce. I mean, yeah, we're kind of hanging on to a thread here, guys.
>> Hang on to a thread.
>> Big IPO tomorrow.
>> Huge IPO tomorrow as we talked about yesterday, right? I mean, >> big huge. So >> yeah, so I I was seeing some more on this in terms of putting, you know, some relative numbers behind uh what the SpaceX IPO is going to bring to the space, you know. Um >> yeah, it's going to be a liquidity sync.
>> Yeah. Well, Google had about $80 billion that they raised off their equity a couple months ago. This is going to have a similar effect on the market. So we know that there's, you know, large amounts of capital being raised in the market. um pretty pretty pretty intense week. We're going to see how this reacts. The the vibe last night with some of our uh our friends at the bar was that SpaceX could do well, right?
There's a lot of fuel. We're obviously seeing some sell off in the market. Um >> and and in theory that moves its way into SpaceX. I agree. I do think SpaceX could do well. I think the market is kind of selling into this event and it might rebound coming out of this event.
But I think once you get into the second and the third and you start going into like three, four, five trillion dollars of new supply in the market, whether it be supply unlocks from SpaceX or it be the anthropic, the open AI IPOs, that's when I think this thing is just going to get too overweight.
>> Yeah, man. I mean, we'll see how the market opens up. Poly market has it as very likely for it to trade above two trillion tomorrow which is significantly above the IPO price at 1.77 trillion. So we shall see. As always guys, our markets are powered by our friends at Zama. Visit zama.org to learn more about the their privacy and confidential transaction solution that they've built out. They have a great portfolio feature coming out later this month as well.
Guys, let's get into it. We've got Nick's highlights. We've got news. We've got announcements. Before we do, let me tell you about Near, your home for building, discovering, and using AI powered apps on chain. Go confidential across a singlenear.com account. Ladies and gentlemen, the best comeback in NBA Finals.
>> The biggest comeback. So, they were down 27 at halftime. Largest deficit was 29.
Uh guys were using Claude to research whether this had ever happened.
>> A 27point comeback had ever happened in NBA Finals history. It hadn't.
>> No.
>> And so we uh >> wait a bar. These guys were using claw to discover like >> our friend at one of these VCs that we were out with last night and looked up whether a 20 anyone ever had come back from 27 down at halftime to win in an NBA Finals game. And it had never been done before. And uh >> man, >> it it's now been done.
>> Man, this play, guys. Let's play this video. So, we're at the bar.
>> OG Well, so this is the Knicks are up here.
So, this is the last possession from the Spurs with two seconds left.
>> Yeah. So, OG already hits his shot, >> his tip in. We're at the ball. The place is silent.
>> And I think we're chanting defense at this point. We're watching Firefarm Castle right here. Get open.
>> Open.
>> Oh my gosh. If If Town's got a [ __ ] finger on it, >> dude.
>> Nobody even gave Towns credit for this.
>> No one even realized it last night.
>> It was in I didn't I thought that it was just a bad pass.
>> Like when I saw it, I was like I was like, "Wow, how do you throw such a bad pass?" Dude, that tip on that it [cheering] it I mean that changed everything in the game. Absolutely changed everything.
>> I mean, there were so many moments during the game where I'm just floored both positively and negatively. I mean, >> yeah, the whole game.
>> How about Josh Hart missing the layup, >> dude? Oh my gosh, >> bro. He couldn't.
>> That's when the bar was silent. Bar was silent [laughter] when this guy goes up with two hands. You practiced this since you're four years old making your layups.
>> And he just he just bobbles it above the rim, >> dude. Off the back of the rim.
>> Off the back of the off the back of the rim.
>> I mean, the last two minutes of this >> was an insane stretch. Down 27 at halftime. Made a little like 10 13-point run. got it within 15 with like nine minutes left. All of a sudden, it's like a four-point game. There's like two minutes left. Go, you know, Spurs take it and I'll give credit to Spurs coach.
Anytime the Knicks went on any kind of run, timeout, you know, four-point run in the first quarter, timeout. Didn't get the didn't let the Knicks get any momentum and then just chip chip chip away at that lead. Never gave up.
>> That was that was terrible coaching though, >> like >> by the Spurs. They they accelerated the ball so many times forward instead of >> instead of holding and dribbling out the >> just like chilling like Castle >> they we had a terrible turnover had a terrible turnover >> and then De'aran Fox goes up for the layup.
>> Dude, I think we're going to play that.
Let's go ahead. Uh >> let's let's play some more Knicks clips if we can.
>> Yeah, let's let's get that De'arren Fox video if we can.
>> Yeah, we got to we got to skip ahead to some of these. There's one of this video by this guy that does these loops for like Bob Maner or something and he's just dogging De'aran Fox. Yeah, let's get this one up. This is the important one. I think this is the one that Cat did not get enough credit for. Uh let's pull this video up. This one never talks about enough. So, play this video.
You'll see that Cat got his hands on the ball here and it made a massive difference. It made a massive difference.
Huge difference. huge difference. I mean, this this was this was this was the this was the difference between Castle dunking this ball and then ending the game.
Got a finger on it. Multiple angles.
Great job. Not foul. Go straight up.
Close there. Imagine they called a foul on that last part. Oh, one lead change the entire game in the last last two seconds. We've got to play Anobi's uh Dude, that tip was everything. Dude, we the bar literally everyone took their drinks just started like like the place just turned into like a champagne factory. I got I got so much like White Claw beer in my eye.
>> Yeah. In my eye. Right. Oh, a whole I got I turned around as soon as we won.
There's people throwing their drinks from across the bar.
>> Oh my goodness. All right, let's keep it rolling into the next uh next Nick's highlight here. I think there's one from Dear Fox or the OG tip.
>> I think we have maybe way in the beginning here, we have one. Yeah, let's go ahead and play this and then maybe we'll get a live shot from the bar last night.
>> The live shot, guys. What a night for the Knicks. Um, and you know, we're not looking too bad out there right now. You know, we're still we're still waiting for this SpaceX IPO. We're still waiting for um, you know, some bottoming formations here across the charts. All right, let's get this video up. This is De'arren Fox. This is a funny funny video. You guys got to turn audio on on this one. Uh, it is hilarious. Darren Fox made some terrible, terrible plays.
And in this video, you really see how the coaching and Fox himself both kind of like >> Yeah. really le >> on this on this play especially.
>> Go ahead and play.
This is just >> So, let's go through every dog [ __ ] play that De'arren Fox made in the second half. Just a headscratching pass by the little fella here. Then 60 seconds later, Fox, who should be the last person on planet Earth, do a J cut [laughter] double, dribble, dribble step back shot, does that. So Fox actually gets taken out after that shot. He checks back in with a minute left. And what in the actual [screaming] [ __ ] is that pass? And then the very next possession at the end of the third quarter, Fox again, dribble, dribble, dribble, run off the foot and out of bounds. And then this possession right here. 3 minutes left.
>> Fox might have been right.
>> Four-point game. Imagine this being your possession. This is the biggest play of the game. Fox is having a family barbecue. Trembling the ball off his foot. No rush at all. Oh [ __ ] There's only 6 seconds left the shot clock.
>> And then you got the play everyone and their grandma are talking about. Fox looks like he has a breakaway. He can't outrun OG Anobi. He can't dribble out the clock. He decides to go up and he [laughter] gets swatted. And then on the final possession of the game, my voice is cooked right now. Fox is on Anobi.
Wemb is on Bronson. Fox then decides to help Wemb. He doubles Brunson. No one's on Anobi. And [screaming] up maybe. Yes, maybe.
That will be your winning bucket.
>> Yeah, man. De'arren Fox, man, when you put it like that, you can see how the coaching and the just the general lack of lack of just ability to finish down the stretch. I mean, look, I I do think that, you know, the Spurs coach did a decent job calling those timeouts early, but when you get down the stretch and you can't execute and you don't have a plan to stay aggressive, but also take some time off the clock, that's what you end up with. you end up with quick contested shots maybe deep in the shot clock because you're not looking for layups. You're not spreading the floor, >> man. All right, guys. I think we might have one more one more Nick's uh thing here and then we're going to keep it rolling back into the usual programming for us. Talk markets, talk crypto, talk what's going on out there, announcements, news, etc. Uh because yeah, there was >> a hell of a game. Come on.
>> Last play of the game. I believe it's going to be [cheering] close.
[cheering] That tipping was insane.
Insane.
Unreal.
[cheering] Wow. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the New York Knicks.
What a what a game. What a game.
>> All right, guys. Let's get into the regular programming here. Fun fun start to the show here. Let's get into our next news, our next content. Um, and our usual flow, man. It it is it is looking it is looking interesting out there.
>> Yeah. What Andy, I'm going to let you take this one. And uh it looks like Alex Karp has some things to say.
>> Yeah, apparently. So, >> yeah. What what what do we have going on here?
So, Alex Karp says that most of the GDP is generated by men despite most gradual degrees going to women, indicating a massive upheaval and economic correction in the future as a result of AI.
Interesting take from Alex. Uh quite a quite a character of this guy. Let's go ahead and play this video and see what he has to say here. He's uh he's Mr. Mr. Mr. Alex. He's he's basically suggesting that v vocational technical hands-on occupations may prove more resilient to automation. Um challenges the assumption that the more formal education automatically transparents are automatically transforms into greater economic security. I agree with this.
I'm drop out did not graduate college.
Also agree with kind of the general flow and framing from Alex here. Um, and yeah, I mean AI's biggest impact may not be eliminating jobs altogether. It may be reshuffleling which types of skills command the highest value, forcing a rethinking of education.
>> Let's play the video.
>> Got in trouble for mentioning that you know 40 37% of our GDA GDP is female.
50% of Americans 52 roughly are female.
There's a dislocation there. 67% of people who have uh who have gone into graduate school are female. These parts of the market are going to be put under massive pressure. It doesn't help to pretend we're not going to have these problems. In fact, the progressive position is progressive because you speak about problems like or people I got in trouble for mentioning that you know 40 37% of our GDA GDP is female.
50% of Americans 52 roughly are female.
there's a dislocation there 67% of people who have >> you know essentially saying that you know AI is going to come in and make a strong economic impact >> you know GDP is a measure of productivity in this country >> AI is set to make the workforce much much more productive so I think he would agree that AI and GDP GDP is going to go up but how we attribute what we attribute that GDP increase too is going to get reshuffled. And I think that's what he's describing here. He's essentially saying that um college degrees are no longer right uh adding much if you're not applying those degrees in the right in the right jobs in the right careers that are pushing the needle. AI is pushing the needle. Uh things that can't be accomplished by AI are pushing the needle like vocational jobs. Um, and I think he's also just bringing up that the line share of vocational jobs are done by men and how if there's, you know, and then there's, you know, maybe this this, you know, gender sort of impact that he's describing here. I'm not sure how he would see that shake out, but you know, one one thing that comes to mind here is the, you know, he mentions GDP to women, GDP for men, but then there's also going to be this rising share of GD GDP attributable to robots, AI, genderless machines that is going to take an increasing share of the GDP as well. And like what happens to society when that market share is increasing and then we have decreasing market share from men and women alike.
>> Yeah. I mean AI is going to reshape labor markets. It's going to influence the distribution curve of of wealth of power. Um it's going to alter political dynamics. It's going to change a lot of things here. I don't really have much to add here from from from Alex to be honest guys. Uh he's he's a character.
He's got a lot to say per usual.
>> The last thing I'll add is that, you know, we had another friend of ours last night at the bar making a case for, you know, some of these more questionable industries. Um, if we have AI and, you know, come into them, there's maybe some altruistic enhancements that can be made to these industries. Uh, because people that are going to do them are going to do them anyway. Uh, for instance, if you're going to be a welder, you might want to be a welder.
>> Yeah. Yeah. you know, and so you should it's not necessarily going to >> prevent people from doing what they want to do.
>> Um, but if you don't want to do something, you might not be forced into doing something, in which case AI is great on both productivity as well as freedom. So, let's keep moving along here next >> to blockchain regulation. Again guys, we have the midterms in November this year which is going to lead to a change in regard and we're going to try to get clarity act in before then. Let's listen to what he has to say. The new president of security [cheering] ties here um has a lot of experience security.
Yes, the CC is the tipper [cheering] there.
So I think regulators now are extremely pro innovation, pro blockchain. They really want to see this evolution happen. However, um I think it's important to think about, you know, what happens in the next two years, right? We have a situation where, you know, I think most people are expecting the House of Representatives to flip to the Democrats in the fall. The SEC kind of reports into the House Financial Services Committee. Who knows what happens in two years? And what we really want to do is make sure we build in a way we build responsibly in a way such that regulators are comfortable with what's being built there are they are comfortable with how this is evolving and we don't have a pendulum swing back the other direction in two years that's definitely something we all want to avoid. So I think regulators now >> Yeah, I I agree. I mean I think we don't want we don't want this all this work that we've been putting in to make the industry more like regulatory friendly and scalable to just kind of go go by the wayside because of the because of the midterms. That's that would be the least ideal outcome. Um what is the bond market saying?
>> So the most likely outcome is that the Democrats sweep, meaning that they have both the House and the Senate. Second most likely is that the Republicans hold on to the Senate. Uh but the Democrats do take the House. Um yeah, I think 80% chance that they do take the House, which means that we're going to have uh some, you know, political reshuffleling on our hands as well. Uh the House controls subpoena power. Uh, so I was listening to some people there making the case that um we're going to maybe get hit with some lawfare that could help or that could slow down some some bills because if the House has subpoena power, they can basically throw a bunch of subpoenas, lawsuits at Trump.
>> Yeah.
>> Bring him in for questioning, bring his teams and whatnot in. Not only does that take up their time where they could be, you know, doing more productive things, but it also forces them into maybe awkward questions, uh, which could cause a lot of media drama and then they have to, you know, they have to basically correct themselves and, uh, correct all these things as well.
>> Special appearance.
>> Yeah. Here we go.
>> Yeah. And look, I mean I mean whether the Dims get it or not, I think we want to see a continued a continued progress forward and that's what and that's what really matters. We don't want to we don't want to slow down progress.
>> Exactly.
>> You know, I I will, you know, and and one thing that is helped uh regardless of the midterms, which way these things shake out, >> the SEC and the CFTC are not they're not part of this. They're appointed, right?
They're not elected. Uh so, we're going to continue to have the the innovative uh SEC and CFTC, which are making tremendous strides, and we can continue to get a lot of great work done in that.
Uh guys uh before our next uh piece, [laughter] let me tell you about Infinifi guys, our DeFi partner. Building DeFi with simpler access to onchain yields, higher yields, no leverage. Visit Infinifi to learn more about what they are doing with the Infinifi project, guys. All right. All right, guys. Back into crypto, back into the opportunity set. We got Purr, we got a hyperl liquid, we got new products available. Um, let's get the chat going today, guys. Come on, guys. All right, so 3 Jane is now open to the public.
Mint USD3 to earn Jane. Liquidity mining details are below. This is like one of the more slept on credit RWA companies that I think has some actual uh like like real backing, real footing. So, they have publicly launched their USD3.
It's a creditbacked yield coin and basically it generates yield from warehouse facilities and credit lines rather than traditional crypto collateral alone. So its initial issuance is limited to 50 million. Um and you earn Jane token susdo pendle and backed by paradigm they're trying to expand onchain credit beyond overcolateralized lending is something that we've been trying to figure out on chain for a while. Let's play this video and just get the quick vibe check.
>> [music] >> One more time. Uh, branding school.
So, USB3 generates yield from warehouse facilities and credit lines rather than traditional crypto collateral alone. Uh, that's an RWA. Uh, >> we got we got Alex taking his selfie. We got Aton's vibing. Yeah, I I like the branding. I like the product. I think it's a good good team, good product. Um I think that they're going to do well.
>> This gives me very like Maple Finance vibes, slight sky vibes. Yes.
>> You know, we're going and we're using >> onchain mechanisms to uh generate capital and and coordinate capital. And then we're taking that money and we're putting it into high quality assets, high quality yieldbearing assets like warehouse facilities and credit lines that can pay some yield, right? And so onchain capital is meeting off-chain yield, >> right?
>> Which I think is a good match.
>> I'm bullish.
>> Yeah, >> I'm bullish.
>> I think so.
>> I think this is like the next expansion of where DeFi is going, how the space is going to keep progressing. It's new yield sources, offchain yield sources.
All right, guys. Let's get into it. This is the title of the show. We're going to tell you about Leifi first, our universal market access for digital assets partner here on the rollup. Start your integration today at le for all the founders and businesses out there watching. Guys, huge update from Hype Liquid Strategies. Huge. They added two and a half million hype in this single week. They issued 22 million new shares which means that like that thing collapsed pretty hard from that 11 what it was at 11 point I mean dude I was euphoric off my ass at 11 and a half I mean I had we had three trading days to sell above 11 and of course I you know of course I didn't um but the reason I mean round trip like generational I mean, wow. And so >> it all happened so fast.
>> They issued these shares and that's probably why there was a bit of a extended selloff. They added $199 million of cash as well. And they >> Wait, so just just to just to ask on that. So So you think there was an extended sell off in per because they were issuing these shares?
>> Yeah.
>> They were selling these shares for cash to raise cash.
>> Yes. And to buy hype.
>> Okay. It's kind of sick that they're like they're like they're selling their own stock to buy more hype and to then have more cash.
>> So, it's like they're like managing the stock for you. Like if they think like they were like, "All right, this thing ran. It's time to get out.
>> Sell a little bit of issue some more shares. Dilute it a bit. Buy more hype with that. Uh get more cash."
>> I mean, these treasury companies are literally remember how they token is the product thing. Yeah, >> kind of is. Kind of is. I mean, the whole purpose of this company is number go up technology.
>> It's financial engineering, right? So, you have this vehicle that is built to >> essentially market make hype.
>> Yeah.
>> It's effectively what they're doing.
They're using their position in the market to position capital, you know, move it from off-chain sources, liquidity providers, and move it onchain into hype. Yeah. Uh, and like you're saying, they're doing that for you. Um, >> yeah, I mean, >> and they're doing a great job.
>> Their MNAV is down a bit to 1.11, >> 1.11.
>> Uh, but they did just hammer the ATM, right? So, they just sold, they use that cash to buy the hype. And so, it makes sense. And now hype is also in a position where it would need to recover.
Guys, remember part of the thesis for treasury companies and buybacks as a whole is not just, hey, we want to slam as much cash as we can into the asset to try to pump the asset. It's, hey, we want to take supply off the market.
>> Yeah. For the long term.
>> For the long term, these are not these are long-term holders. These guys are not going to be selling anytime soon.
They have cash on hand. They can raise more cash. They can do what they need to do in that sense. They don't want to be selling their hype. And so if hype does, >> you know, if the macro environment changes, right, cyclically, and we have some liquidity return to the industry as a whole, >> yeah, >> and a rising tide lifts all boats and you have supply taken off the market, then these assets are much much more reflexive. And if you're reflexive and it's a rising tide, I mean, you guys can put put the pieces together here. You know, you're more you have more upside volatility, if you will.
>> Yeah. And so that is a significant, you know, reason in doing this. It's probably why we see Bitine and ETH, you know, just continuing to hammer and and and, you know, move so much cash into ETH despite it going down. They're long-term term holders. The idea is that they're not going to get margin called, right? And they have the patience and longevity for the macro cyclical nature to return positively with supply off the market. you would expect uh great things to happen.
>> Yeah, I'm going to pull up the HL Eco dashboard just to get a deeper look into exactly the numbers here so we can just get the screen share up on the on the back here. Uh we'll see the more detailed numbers and kind of some of the performance as well. Um because you can kind of see you guys can kind of see that there's there's been outperformance a on per and there's been a so there's outperformance drastically to the upside like when hype's going up there's quite a bit of outperformance and then on the downside when they hit the ATM like they do in raise cash and um you know uh end up like actually holding these assets then they also outperform to the upside.
So like rate like like today PUR's up 7.6% hype's only up 6.2%.
And it looks good. I mean the market's bouncing. Things look good. Capital flows remains very bullish. He's saying it's his biggest position. Nothing's changed. I was just DMing with him back and forth and this is what he told me.
This will make a good clip here. He says says, "Look, my view is that it's going to be very difficult to break below 50 cuz that's where we injected more capital in the Coinbase Circle partnership and they injected into the fundamentals as opposed to just the coin. So basically that's the level of my mind plus the revenues keep increasing basically in a 200 V asset.
We need to see a series of higher highs and higher lows within that variance.
And then we also need to see outperformance against others. If we can have those two things and we align with fundamentals, then this then the thesis isn't falsified. And so I think that's kind of where we're at. We're kind of at this point where the thesis isn't falsified and we have a 200 V asset.
It's extremely volatile and and the question is like did hype just hit that 52 level and was that it? You know, is that the is that the lows that we have for a while? Where do we go? But that's the thesis from capital flows in a 200 vault asset. We need to see a series of higher highs, higher lows, and we need to see outperformance. And if that continues, then the thesis holds.
>> You said 200 fall, >> like a 200 V asset. Yeah.
>> What What is What is a 200 V asset?
>> I don't know.
>> What? That's just a measurement of volatility.
>> What is a 200 asset?
>> I hope we're getting our What is this, Claude? No.
>> Context.
>> Context for stocks.
>> All right. In real time. I like this.
We're prompting AI in real time. You guys are learning along with us. Oh, here's a rough guide. 15 to 20 vols, low volatility stock. 30 to 50 is a growth stock uh riskier index. Uh oh, so we are at 150 to 200 extremely volatile assets common in crypto uh biotech many stocks leverage products 200 asset means annualized standard deviation returns about 200%. That's enormous.
>> So this is a highly volatile uh ticker.
uh and so >> in that he's saying that we need consistent outperformance. We need uh relative strength and these two things because of the volatility here. Uh if we don't meet these two things, >> volatility can go both ways.
>> A 20 vol stock might move one, you know, about 1.25% per day. 200 asset might move roughly 12 to 13% a day on average.
>> Sounds great.
>> I mean, hype's flying right now. It's at It's up 8%.
Right. So that's like 200 V. Pearl is up eight and a half.
Looks good here, guys. Looks good.
>> Yeah, I >> Sheamus update was huge.
>> Well, we're going to get Sheamus in the tokenization tower in about an hour and a half. So, uh we're going to hear directly from uh the man himself. I I'm you know my my curiosity or hesitation here continues to be with the amount of capital that was poured into AI uh and whether or not we can sustain a rally amidst um you know an AI shakeout if you will. I mean this MNAV is the lowest we've seen it in in a while and then so you know they're not going to be hitting the ATM this week at with per at 8.
They're not hitting the ATM when the MNAV has compressed. They're going to let this thing run for a bit.
>> Well, they need hype to go up and and PER to go up.
>> Yeah. In order to hit the ATM a little bit more. So, >> and it is it looks good today, guys.
We're looking we're bouncing back. I was bearish last couple days, but I'm just been flip-flopped left, right, and center. Just can't just can't stop flip-flopping, man. can't stay away from the sub.
>> But I just keep looking at like I'm I'm I've got a subscription to um Capital Flow's Substack and he's just like he's like, "Dude, nothing's changed in the thesis." I just if you're looking at Hyperlid in a void, in a vacuum, it looks phenomenal. The fundamentals are great.
New York Stock Exchange owner chairman says it's bigger than the NASDAQ. This thing is going to be >> immense there. Nothing about that has changed. But >> I mean there are things that are bigger than hyperlquid. The macro liquidity environment of the entire world. The the war raging on in the Middle East. I uh uh oil um continuing to just kind of be at an elevated price means everything else gets caught up by the wayside. I I I don't know if there's an argument if we get all of this capital that's, you know, coming to market and we see these things draw down. I I don't know if we're going to see outperformance or relative strength.
>> Yeah.
>> In this industry, I just I don't know if that if that can happen.
>> Not to change the subject to Andy, but the game last night. Wow. Yeah. Shine.
Unreal. Glad you didn't bet that 200 on yesterday's game, huh, buddy? That would have been rough. That would have been rough. I mean, look, revenues are staying elevated, you know, at that consistent mark, that two two mill a day. Obviously, we kind of hit this like major run on the top out. Atom tweeted this as as well. It was the first time I saw the T-ws uh be negative ever.
>> Yeah.
>> Um that was like a couple over the last couple days. That was kind of surprising to me and I was not expecting that as much. And so, yeah, I mean, guys, we're gonna have Sheamus today. We're gonna get the update. It's actually great timing considering um the release that they just dropped and kind of like thinking about the numbers. So just to kind of come back to the numbers guys on this MNAV 1.1x cash deployed to hype 400 mil average hype cost 31 um hype held 26.15% per trading a little higher than that now but pretty much at that mark 200 mil dry powder and the MNAV looks great and and and here guys you can see the outperformance it's just been Like since these things touched here in December, right? These things basically touched, they just diverged.
They kind of touched again in January.
They kind of came back and touched again in February. And so one could argue every time that you get like close to, you know, touching then you then you're going to expect some outperformance just based on this trend.
So you love to see it. You want to cheer for these guys, you want to cheer for Hyperlquid. And yeah, I mean, this was like hl.eco just fantastic site. Um, so Hyperlid is deflationary.
Um, at about 3% annualized per year.
Performance against crypto assets has been phenomenal. $2.6 billion worth permanently removed from supply.
Andy, do you remember when John Charb from DBA put out a proposal where he said essentially all of this hype that's locked, they've claimed that they're not going to be unlocking it, they should just say like, hey, you know, and and we do this in crypto where we sort of like allocate these tokens, like a portion of token supply to like grants and whatnot, ecosystem funds, >> you know, when you think about public companies, they have the ability to issue more shares. but they don't do so until it comes time to do to issue those shares.
In in the case of crypto, we pre-ordain a portion of the supply. It it's minted.
It's considered part of the circulating supply and we just allocate it into the grant or ecosystem fund.
John Charb's proposal was hey, let's just say like burn it.
>> Let's just basically delete this from the supply. it would be more accurate represent representative metric for the circulating supply and if you need to do some sort of you know grant or they look they have they don't pay for anything but if you in the case you do need to pay for something and you need to issue shares of Hyperlquid to do it put up a proposal you vote it you pass it and then you mint the mint the coins >> yeah I I'm just I'm just trying to figure out why this is so reflexive to the upside and the downside side >> because >> on the uh like if you know a per own hype is at 50 per is at five stocks at 750 it's 50% premium let's say but on the way down the the premium compresses. So like so you you get this really volatile movement here where like on the way up you get both the underlying hype growth and you get the premium growing and then on the way down you get hype price compressing and the premium compressing.
>> Yeah.
>> And so you get this like crazy loop >> very reflexive.
>> So market this treasury and fund They're not valuing current hype. They're valuing future hype per share.
>> This is true of, you know, Sailor doing this Bitcoin per share, Tom Lee doing ETH per share. Yep.
>> Yeah. So, they're trying to keep increasing hype exposure. Then some of PER's value come from expected value accumulation. All right. So, let's >> And the entire job of this company is just to get you a little bit more hype, right? So if right now at 1xn nav mnav you're essentially like you know maybe there's a billion dollars in there billion dollars worth of hype you know sh the market cap of the company is worth a billion dollars the mnav increases because you anticipate that they will get you more hype >> for the amount of shares that you earn.
All right. So, the assumption is that hype hits $100 in the next 6 to 12 months and per continues to be the public market hype vehicle. Management keeps growing hype per share. Crypto market remains reasonably healthy.
That's kind of like the biggest question right now is everyone just is like bottom's going to fall out on Bitcoin.
It's going to 40k. I'm hearing competing theories around like I'm hearing, you know, the early early investors that are poised for tremendous liquidity events in these IPOs.
>> Yeah.
>> They're going to be, you know, unlocked and moving into Bitcoin, right?
>> Yeah.
>> But then on the other hand, I hear, you know, we're going to sell Bitcoin. Jim Kramer says that Bitcoin is bad money and we're going to sell it to go buy SpaceX.
So there's competing theories here on whether these IPOs are going to be healthy or unhealthy for the crypto market.
>> So let's say hype does get to 100, right guys? It's kind of weird moment where I have no choice but to be bearish on hype because everything is so bullish.
Contrarian probably won't work here, but I just feel it in my jellies.
Interesting interesting take from New Tikeke.
We [clears throat] have no choice but to be bearish on >> hype because everything is so bullish.
>> What is bullish? I'm looking out there and I'm saying seeing AI IPOs supply over remember these IPOs guys they're high FTV lowflat shitcoins I think there's less than 5% float on the market when these things go public and then they're going to get a bunch more supply over the next 6 months to a year that is tremendous amount of value overhang you need to I unless the things just drop like a rock on launch which we've seen plenty plenty of new token launches and public companies do. You need to sell something in order to get the capital to buy that thing.
>> And we're not in some incredibly favorable macro environment with low rates where we're just printing money and using fresh cash to go into these assets. No, there's actually high rates.
Inflation's high. So, it's not easy to get fresh capital. So, you need to sell the other thing in order to get the cash to buy the new thing, which brings the the the old thing down. So, I don't I don't know where this bullishness is coming from. I'm looking at equities.
They're super highly elevated. Uh it seems as if there's a ton of new supply that's going to be entering on the market.
>> All right, here we go. Here we go. Here we go.
>> Here we go.
>> If we're bullish, if we're not, that is the if IPOs cook us, if the AI trade infiltrates our bags, could be over. But the bare case for per if hype is at 100 is we get like a $13 to 1475 per so hype goes to 100 the the return from here is 62 to 78%. That's about the same the >> chat GBT.
>> Yeah. The moderate case is the market keeps viewing per as a preferred public hype vehicle. the we get a pretty solid premium of 25 to 50% which is like just we just saw a 20% premium on that last run it was about 1.25 25. So we were at that 25% mark. Puts per at 1675 to 2010.
The bull case is the reflexivity return treasury stories in intact. Investors paying a micro strategy style premium. I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of like bad vibes around DATs right now.
That puts us at 23 to $30 per at hype at 100.
>> Okay. So your premise is that hype is at 100. And this is what happens to purr if hyperlquid gets to 100.
>> So the mania case. This is if the market stops asking what's the nav.
>> What's the nav? The market doesn't care about the nav. They don't want to rob standing up for this. Can we get the behind the scenes shot here in a second?
What's the nav? How much hype will they owe next year? $40 to $54 per >> at $100. Let's get the behind the scenes shot. 40 to54 per >> what are you?
>> I don't know if I believe that. I don't know if I believe that. I don't know if I believe that.
>> Is that with the gamma squeeze?
>> That would that would be massive gamma squeeze. Let's pull the chat GBT back up.
>> All right. So now our friend Capital Flows is calling for a gamma squeeze on per in the next 50 days.
What would this entail and how how would >> again this is okay so all of the previous cases that you've talked about are are with hype at 100.
>> Yes. That's the that's the underlying belief.
>> You need a 2x on hype spot.
>> Not even.
>> We're at 577. We need like a a 90% move.
Yep.
>> 85%.
>> What do you think the rest of the market has to do in order for us to get a 90% move on hype?
How would it affect our projections?
>> What's up, Nudype? I don't know if if you're bullish, if I'm bearish.
>> The hype T-W is uh negative. So, >> negative4 million in the next 1 hour.
Yikes. All right. So, what would a gamma squeeze look like? A true gamma squeeze would be different from a Nav premium story we've been discussing. The nav story says hype goes up per nav goes up.
Per price goes up. A gamma squeeze says per price goes up. Market makers buy per stock to hedge calls and per price flies.
PER is$825. Today tons of traders buy calls in these strikes. I think we heard they were up to about 18 to $21.
>> They were 20 when when PER was above 10 or 11. And so delta on those calls increases market makers buy more shares. It is perfectly susceptible. It was particularly susceptible to a gamma squeeze smallest float relative to market cap. Strong resto narrative. It's got this per token if hype >> rallies. The smallalish float relative to market cap is the same reason.
>> All right. So without a scenario, bare moderate bull mania with hype at 100.
A gamma squeeze can temporarily disconnect price from NAV.
That's how you can get 20 2530 before hype even gets at gets to 100.
I mean there is a possibility that you get some sort of gamma squeeze scenario before hype with with hype not even moving to 100. But you would require in order to do that you still need people buying options on purr. And why are people going to buy options on purr?
>> Because they want to speculate on per and therefore hype.
>> Yes.
Yes.
So this is the dream scenario for per bulls and this would be a massive massive move. What does this mean? Hyperlid is the most liquid place to trade Bitcoin.
Uh it's becoming I mean right now it's the most liquid place to trade SpaceX because SpaceX is not live yet. Um I'm interested in the scenarios in which we take hype to 100. I think the more that we take off the market, the more that we have potential when liquidity resumes, whether that means a bare market rally or the return of the bull market, we're going to see supply taken off the books and hyperl is going to return in a more reflexive format. And that's where I think we're headed. I think uh we're taking Bitcoin, ETH, and Hype off the books.
How much premium is the market willing to pay is the question, ladies and gentlemen.
>> Hype's flying >> 10% today.
>> Yeah. I mean, here's where we're at, Rob. So, guys, watching Good Morning New Type, Shine, everyone else, and that's the state of things.
We've resorted to just just cheerleading hype on this show. All right, guys.
Let's get into our daily equity segment here from Ricky Hoe, powered by our friends over at Dinari, and we will cover what they're building.
Asia's AI earnings, beating US multiples. Let's flip it over to the Daily Equity.
[music] two charts telling a different story from the narrative dominated markets at the start of the year. Let's go ahead and scroll down. The first chart is showing a decomposing of equity returns into earnings growth from the US versus Asia. And basically what we're seeing here is a complete shift in the AI Asian earnings. So look, South Korea's equity market uh delivered the strongest uh 2026 returns among major markets primarily driven by earnings growth rather than valuation expansion. Guys remember uh in equities these team these things actually have revenue and earnings which means that uh we can value them based on fundamentals and typically there's a multiple uh that is the valuation expansion uh where we have price earnings multiples uh when we have these fervorous moments we have liquidity bubbles that's when multiples get out of control but if earnings are up and multiples stay where they are then that is just pure fundamental growth that's what we want to See, so if we're taking a look at what we have here on the screen, uh a couple of charts, we've got global equity equity return composition on the left, global equity valuations on the right. Valuations have actually come down, which is healthy in a market. uh it does mean that maybe these valuations aren't as durable or the cash flows aren't as durable because essentially what you have if you have you know a 26x for instance multiple on cash flows you would expect that the company's able to return their annualized cash flow for the next 26 years.
>> Yeah. Yeah man you would. And at this point, American equities relied a lot heavily on the val a lot heavier on the valuation rerating, >> right?
>> With forward PE multiples moving above historical averages. In this case, American equities are no longer just the AI trade is no longer just an American phenomenon. It is a global capital movement specifically in Asia that is happening. Guys, that has been our tokenized daily equity show powered by our tokenization partner dinari. Thanks for being a part of it. We're going to be right back with our first in-person guest here at the tokenization tower, Konei from Monad. It's going to be a great segment, guys. Don't go anywhere.
We will be right back and we'll be live with Ke [music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> Oh my god.
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Going 70.
>> All righty, guys. Welcome back to the tokenization tower. We are live here with Kei, the founder of Monad or co-founder of Monad. Uh been a while since we've had Ke on. Ke, welcome to the tokenization tower.
>> Thanks for having me. Great to be here.
>> Yeah, absolutely. For sure.
>> Thanks for coming. So, what is the uh co-founder of Monad doing at an ETHCOM event? You're not here for ETH. You're here in NYC. Um have you been doing much around ETH? We've kind of heard some mixed things about the conference.
>> Um I think it's been great. Uh, Monad has actually been hosting events every day. So, we had a huge hackathon on Tuesday with um over a hundred hackers um over 70 projects like really great energy on Tuesday and we had a consumer night yesterday and um yeah, there's just a lot of stuff going on around the Monad NYC office.
>> Yeah, it's definitely the place to be. I mean, we've been here for a couple months and yeah, it's been uh there's so many people coming through and just conversations and happenings and so >> man, I think it's been maybe six six eight months since we had you on last.
Would love to just get a quick primer on the state of Monad from the applications, the ecosystem to the team, the roadmap, just kind of give us a high level of what is uh the state of Monad as it is today.
>> Sure. Um so Monad is a project that's been going on for over four years now actually. Um, we started in early 2022 and the goal at that time was to really materially improve crypto and really materially improve the EVM um by introducing um a lot of modern computational techniques like pipelining and um a lot of low-level systems engineering to deliver really high performance and to deliver the things that users ultimately want. Um we went live with the uh with the mainet in November. Um so about six months ago and um it's just you know for me the mainet was really just the MVP of of Monad the minimum viable product um to deliver full Ethereum backward compatibility um support for all of the major infrastructure that's needed whether it's bridges or oracles like chain link or pith or um all of the tooling. And then what we're doing from here onward is delivering the features that we think ultimately are needed in the crypto space. Um whether that's privacy, me resistance, um like these are these are properties that are really missing from L1 blockchains and that's what we're going to be delivering on in um in the coming months. But the mainet was like literally when Frankenstein's monster comes alive and um you know that first pulse of life >> and since then it's been really quite exciting to see the network grow.
>> Yeah. And that's when it's born and then it's time to you know raise raise the thing into a you know a growing adult.
Um and so you know you you kind of mentioned doing some of the computational improvements to the low-level systems engineering of of the chain itself. I'm curious and and you know you mentioned the hackathon and several applications and founders now now building on monad. Was the original inspiration to make those improvements for finance or did you have a bigger maybe more uh robust vision of what the chain could support and that's why you were making those improvements to the chain.
>> Ultimately finance is a big part of the story of crypto um and a big part of monad. I think that when you think about the internet, like the internet is amazing um because it is universally accessible regardless of wherever you are in the world. You have access to the same Wikipedia. You have access to all the same information. But that didn't used to be the case. Um you used to be subject to like whatever information was available to you locally in your library. And I think that finance um unfortunately is still very very siloed depending on what country you're in, what banks you have access to, what platforms you have access to. And so I do really believe that um delivering what the internet did for information um for finance is really a huge part of crypto's offering. So it's about universal access um and it's about the features that come from composability whether that's leverage or um cross margining or um just just generally like the fact that we have programmable money rather than simple money. Um and so you know in this story it is really a story about finance. Um, and I think the next couple of years for crypto are about getting all of this um, really realizing this vision and making significant bridges to the rest of the world.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think like dominantly has been per tokenization, stable coins as kind of like the big sectors of finance that are attracting the most amount of capital, generating the most amount of returns and kind of like being becoming like a formidable onchain ecosystem of an economy. in those three categories, how is Monad kind of thinking about each of these sectors?
How's the growth been in in these sectors? Um, and what is what are some of like the priorities for for for this part of the financial stack?
>> Yeah, I think uh everything that you said is is true that um stable coins are a huge part of the story in crypto and in Monad. Um vaults are um a huge success story within the Monad ecosystem. Um the accountable vaults in particular um have attracted signi significant capital um across seven or eight different vaults um that are offering um really compelling products and um ultimately delivering a lot of value both to borrowers and lenders. Um on the per side uh purple uh is currently in private mainet right now.
You need an access code but um I believe that that will be changing quite shortly actually. Um they've announced their points program and um but sorry yeah purple is a fully decentralized perpetuals uh exchange y on monad um fully on chain um currently supporting I think five or six assets >> great name purple for perfect exchange and monad obviously >> and and the reason that I asked that is because there's been this kind of really I call it like this return of fundamentals but you call it kind of whatever you want it's like the whole industry is like in our first conversations We would be talking about the technical architecture of like modular versus monolithic or about like scaling chains in a horizontal fashion versus verticalizing the stack and all of this foundation on the technical side has been laid a and there's a lot of you know improvements to be done as you kind of opened up saying and you know you know one could argue that these these are more marginal than than kind of getting the foundation out the MVP out but obviously still very important but the industry is now in this in this state of you know what is your business model what you know what is your institutional allocation plan are you are you generating revenue how are you thinking about token buybacks and this this is you know this two shall pass this is like a pendulum I think swinging very far one way after it being on the other side and it probably settled somewhere in the middle but you know I'm just curious like from the founder perspective has like what have been the adaptations that you've made to your strategy to the way you're thinking about the chain the product the token And as we've kind of entered into this more institutional era, but also this more like show me the money era, has it changed your perspective or your actions or your visions at all or kind of just like generally curious how you're thinking about this current state of affairs?
>> Yeah, I guess I want to make two separate comments that are are both um thoughts that I have in in response to what you said. Um, I think the first is no matter what, we always have to be delivering value to users. And I think crypto can deliver an incredible amount of value to users um through the combination of universal market access and through composable uh programmable money. And those two fundamental things can deliver an incredible amount of value because right now we do live in a world where um the financial system is [snorts] completely regionalized, completely compartmentalized. And when we break that down, there's an incredible amount of value that can be delivered. I think that when whenever we talk about um protocols or uh companies or ideas that ultimately are really valuable, those are the ones where they start with a desire to deliver a lot of value to users. Um and then they find a way to ultimately make money from that. Um, and we've seen that whether that was Google or Facebook or Nvidia or like it's these are teams that care a lot about a really high quality product that's very finely crafted and involves a lot of opinionatedness.
um but they care about doing that because they care about delivering value to users and they know that they'll be able to find um increasingly more and more revenue um as that you know as that grows as the product grows and as the user base grows as the network grows.
Um, and so I think that there's, you know, it's what you said like definitely show me the money. We should care about revenues. Um, and we should go toward where there is value. But also, um, one could start worrying too much about revenue from day one where then you start locally optimizing rather than globally optimizing and having that bigger picture in mind. And so I think for Monad that really big picture is that programmable money is an incredibly important thing to society. It's incredibly valuable and doing that in a decentralized credibly neutral way um has incredible value to the rest of the world. Um, when we talk to enterprises, when we talk to banks, um, when we talk to folks that have significant real world businesses, one of the consistent things that we hear is that they care about not building in a walled garden.
They care about not building inside of um, an ecosystem where there's one anchor tenant who clearly um, is going to end up preferencing themselves in the long run and is going to end up verticalizing and um, competing directly against them in ways. They care about building on credibly neutral decentralized environments like Ethereum or Monad. And so I think that the real value that Monad can deliver to the world is delivering that really um dependable, really performant, really well-gineered system that delivers a high degree of decentralization and is credibly neutral and is not just, you know, like a centralized thing that is kind of run by one one big company. So I think that's you know that's at a high level like what the vision is and what we're building toward and we're part of the way there. Um but technology is a big part of that story as well. And so um to the point earlier about how mainet is the MVP mainet um you know took a lot of work to get there and it's really performant. It's an amazing system. The category labs team the formerly known as Monad Labs like the team that built that is super talented. They're the best team of engineers in the space in my opinion.
Um, but they built this all from scratch. They know it like the back of their hand. And so now they're making improvements to the technology that are introducing new features that we think are fundamentally really important as well to users. And those are things like privacy, me resistance. Like these are fundamental properties that I think um although they sound very technical, they also are very practical. Like people care about not being frontr run. people care about not doxing themselves when they go to the coffee shop and they pay for um a cup of coffee. And so in my view it's like you know revenues matter, the adoption matters, the bridges to the rest of the world matter, but the technology also matters as well because that's the thing that's underpinning everything and that allows us to deliver a system that is um has these properties that are really attractive and trustworthy to people. Yeah, the the technological underpinnings are are key to the vision and they're the through lines in all of these these these groups that you're talking about. You know, I I I heard you mention, you know, you're talking to banks and institutions and that is one customer profile. Also, here you talking a lot about users and what's important to them. Decentralization, privacy, me resistance are, you know, these are properties that are consistent uh among institutions as well as users.
Um and for so long, you know, there was uh the technical developers, founders, builders that weren't quite institutional, but you know, we're also looking to build onchains and develop their their their applications. And I'm curious how you maintain a consistent like who is your customer? You know, can you kind of build with all three groups in mind as you keep in some of those technological through lines? Typically businesses have a very narrow customer profile and then kind of build out from there. We've gotten more sophisticated blockchains and so maybe we have more sophisticated customer sets. How do you appeal to all three of those groups and maybe more?
I think that it's kind of a common commonly said thing on crypto Twitter that um there needs to be among new blockchain networks one very specific go to market motion one very specific vertical that needs to be focused on um and I think that that's kind of backsolving from the success of um you know one or two projects that have been really successful but underpinning that was still for any of those successes was like a thousand other things that were really important. Um, and ultimately execution. Um, and they succeeded. Um, let's just, you know, to name names like Hyperlid. Literally everyone on Crypto Twitter is super focused on what made Hyperlid successful. And they, I think one thing that often gets thrown around um, apologies for making a little bit of a straw man, but it's like, oh, they focused on this one specific thing.
Yeah.
>> Um, one product. And I think that there are many ways to success, but I think that what Hyperlid is doing is fundamentally very different from what Monad is doing. What Monad is doing is delivering a really decentralized, really trustworthy um and really credibly neutral environment where um any builder can be successful. And that means not competing against the builders that are building on Monad. It means not uh king making one stable coin. Um, it means not, um, and that doesn't, just to be clear, that doesn't mean that every single builder gets all exactly the same support on every single thing. Um, because that would be communism and that would that's not realistic. Like it um, but it means running it means really from a foundation perspective trying to grow the ecosystem as a meritocracy.
um and really just allocating resources based on merit um based on speed of growth based on obsession with the customer and based on traction and um ability to acquire users and ability to retain users. Um and I think that in the pra in the context of the question of institutional versus retail or like you know some uh consideration like that I think that we you know we're a big team um we have a lot of resources and we attack the problem from multiple angles um but we do think it is incredibly important to get um the real world adoption right and to go where there's traction and right now it's very clear that there's incredible growth both in the vault space, in the curator space, um in growing RWA's, bringing more assets on chain. And that also aligns well with um our thesis about the universal asset layer and um universal market access, which comes from bringing many real world assets into one environment um and getting really tight spreads on them, getting efficient pricing. I think people talk a lot about um bringing RWAS on but they don't look at all the details of like how expensive is it for users to ultimately transact in those what is the creation or redemption cost um on a you know like there's just a lot of details and making sure that it's a great experience for users not only purely nominally from what's there but also how expensive it is to trade that's enabled by technology that's enabled by fully onchain order books that's enabled by market makers is competing to quote really tightly.
>> A bit of a tangental question, but you know I heard you you know you're talking about universal market access. This is something we hear a lot about and ideologically I think it it makes a lot of sense when you talk about the universal asset layer that feels a lot more tangible. Can you just talk a little bit more, you know, what does that look like? H how does that get built? What is your endgame for the universal asset layer? Is it one chain or one composable network of chains where everything is tokenized? It truly is the tokenization super cycle. Every asset on chain. What is the universal asset layer look like?
>> The universal asset layer is an environment where anyone can permissionlessly um access a wide range of opportunities.
Um it is the opportunity engine. It is um you know you have your wallet whether that's a normal wallet or smart contract wallet um or even a um a widget inside of a uh fintech app or neoank app um where you know maybe uh a wallet embedded wallet provider like portal um has basically given users of this fintech app who don't actually know that much about crypto um access to widgets that allow them to access an environment where you get access to many assets, asset classes, whether that's equities or commodities or FX um or fixed income products, um where they can earn yield by lending out currencies or they can get capital, get access to capital and pay the best rate possible. Um, I think that, you know, for small businesses, it's you're basically you're often like just borrowing from whatever your local bank offers you, and that's probably not a very good rate relative to the global marketplace of all possible lenders. And so, I think the universal asset layer is really the story about getting many assets all in the same environment, making it really cheap to transact with them, making them divisible. So maybe you want to buy a fraction of a share of some um equity maybe in a different country than your current country. Um or it's getting access to fixed income or lending products either on the borrow side or on the on the lending side and getting the best rate possible on both sides.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And and I mean I think like what we know is that we need a a very performant ecosystem to do that or or environment to do that. And I think like a lot of the the space has expanded its viewpoint of we're going to be trading the $150 billion of DeFi CVL three $3 trillion of crypto market cap on chain.
So like whatever the hundreds of trillions of dollars of tokenized assets possible to be traded on chain. That is kind of like the new like TAM and vision I think for the industry which I think is extremely exciting. But on the contrary, people are are kind of like sentimentally wise like kind of bearish on, oh, we're just tokenizing stocks and gold and other assets and just bringing them on chain to trade. Like that's what like the innovation here is. And so there's there's this interesting like sentiment gap around this universal asset layer concept where folks are like, we built all this technology to create a new financial system of some sort, but now we're just kind of like trading stocks on chain or trading preipos on chain. Why do you think that this is such an important objective still and and do you have anything to say about kind of the sentiment dislocation right now with the amount of progress that's happening on you know initiatives like this but a lot of people inside the ecosystem inside whether it's just broad Ethereum Monad just the entire space just kind of like kind of down in the dumps a bit about like the state of of things given how uh perhaps just price is but but the adoption is so strong. talk to us about like this like the broad sentiment gap here of this universal market access and trading on this asset layer and how it pertains to kind of like what a lot of the OG believer dieards enthusiasts kind of came into the space for.
>> I think there's always two ways to look at any situation. You can always choose to look at um the world optimistically or pessimistically and um I've just fundamentally choose to look at it optimistically. Um, I think that even if you're someone who cares a lot about very frontier or niche markets, um, and those are not the ones that are getting all the attention right now because everyone's thinking about equities right now, um, and existing, uh, financial products and and systems right now. Um, you should be excited because ultimately if we deliver a lot of value to a lot of people, um, we grow the space substantially, not only from a capital perspective, but from a user perspective, then all of those users ultimately get access to more frontier markets or more experimental efforts or um, you know, like if you care a lot about uh, Dowo governance or something and so you're upset that like no one's cares cares about Dow governance right now because they care about tokenized equities. The reality is that getting more people on chain, getting more people to use the fundamental systems um ultimately just makes all you know it's like a rising tide that raises all boats in the long run. But in the short run like you know you're going to have to trudge through some mud and you're going to have to um there's there are going to be challenges. No doubt. I don't discount that at all. Um, but that's the way, you know, if you really care about any, like caring about any particular product means caring about it even when it seems like no one else cares because if you only care about it when other people care, then you're probably too late to it anyway. Like you have to be skating to where the puck is going to be.
>> Yeah. the the bandwagoners um on on this idea. You know, there's this kind of thesis that Andy and I have tossed around and it's part of this general NEO finance thesis that we have where we're tokenalizing a lot of these assets and you know, some people are disillusioned with that and it creates this sentiment gap. On on the other hand, it could be a stepping stone to something bigger and you're talking about a more decentralized world in general. I I I like to say, you know, a a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain, right?
And and a dollar offchain tends to stay offchain. And so if we do get, you know, tokenized equities, these things are on chain. People are making their salaries on chain. We get the stable coin super cycle. These things tend to compound and ultimately these things tend to, you know, flow into the DeFi apps and therefore the DeFi equities, you know, in in terms of like the tokens that represent these apps and it kind of, you know, this value does end up flowing into the assets that represent our industry as well as those protocols.
Just curious, do you agree with this in general as a stepping stone? Uh, a dollar onchain tends to stay onchain.
>> I agree, especially because of the network effects and the idea that, you know, it's it's the same thing as like running a store where you have the coupons and you you give out like certain items at a very discounted value. Maybe certain things are the loss leader that gets people to the store, the Costco hot dog, um or the the pizza slice, but then people come and they ultimately then get access to a lot more um products, a lot more opportunities. Um and I think the level of adoption is still super low for onchain users. Like Ethereum has less than a million DAUs right now. Um, so I think that it's rational for the industry to focus on delivering value.
And it sounds crazy to say that. It's just like go to where the people are where um people will gain value from using these services and over time we will we'll figure it out. But there's a huge amount of opportunity out there.
The world is so big. There's 8 billion people out there. Um, you know, it doesn't take that many people paying you $5 a month or $1 a month to actually get to significant ARR.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> For anyone, >> you know, and this isn't even in counting for agents, which I think has been a large conversation, right? And I, you know, I see your face kind of light up here. You know the the agent side is something very interesting because Monad is one of the chains that you you know you could argue is perfectly built for agents just in terms of speed cost and in terms of like the composability aspect. What is has your has your view on blockchains and monad shifted with the proliferation of the advancement of intelligence? Like I'm very broad question here, but what is the like what is your view on how agents may play a part in the in this universal market access asset layer? Is is is this something that you're really thinking about deeper deeply? Is it kind of still, you know, still on the frontier?
Like what's your what's your agents meets monad kind of perspective? I think that ultimately what agents give us is just a much better interface for doing anything. Um, you know, like when you're when you're vibe coding, like it's so much nicer to be able to talk to something that's kind of presents as a human and ask it to do things and ask it to explain to you what it did and, you know, give you things that you can review as a software programmer. um and then ultimately make a lot more progress than if you had to go and you know spend a lot of time searching through the code and um and I think the same thing is true with with many other kinds of tasks. So I think that agents ultimately just accelerate our ability to get things done as humans. And so from a crypto perspective, it's purely additive. It's purely beneficial. Like people will be able to use the blockchain more easily than they used to. Like I used to tell people like you know here is like this um you know page on the docs that explains exactly how to you know run a node and these are some of the properties of the system and this is what and now I just tell them like ask your claude about monad ask your ask your claude like >> you know about the properties of how easy it is to run a node ask your claude to go run a node for you right now on your machine and that's so much >> so much easier of a cell ultimately than having to like get people to invest a lot of time to know all these. I think the same thing is just true with respect to um consumption of services um access to financial markets um and and the whole nine yards.
>> And so from the from the founder perspective I I take it obviously you're using uh you know agents and claude or you know different services to help on the programming side. from the team and scaling and processes side. What does that look like for the internal side?
It, you know, we've seen people lay off a ton of different uh staffing groups or parts of their staff citing AI. You know, we don't really believe it's quite there yet, but definitely integrated into the processes internally at the rollup. What does that look like for Monad? How how does Monad improve its efficiency and productivity? um and how do you lead that in you know in terms of ingraining these systems into the team?
>> Um our team is a big user of AI um we we we love um >> I feel like our our token usage actually has not been crazy. Um so I'm happy about that. But but I think in terms of like the efficiency gains and um so we have a agent in Slack that we can tag and ask to take care of all kinds of tasks. um it's fully integrated into um the Monet blockchain and has um access to a full index data warehouse. It's super easy to ask it to go construct dashboards or look up anything or tell us about what's going on or go do work and go open PRs. And um that's that's super exciting because then we see engineers and non-engineers alike going and ideulating and asking the agent to go do things and being able to get be fully in that feedback loop to ultimately build better and better um products and systems. Um with regard to the idea of um you know how it changes like the composition of the team or layoffs or what have you. Um I think that ultimately um the most important thing is that people like everyone on the team be um be good users of AI and be able to and use it to enhance their productivity. Um and I think for our industry more generally like you know there's some people that are going to be really good at that and embrace it very deeply and others that um are not able to make that leap. And so I think that would be where um you know sort of like the bifurcation happens. But from our perspective, we don't think of AI as something that um that replaces humans or that allows us to have like a smaller team. It's more like we just want to be able to do way more because um you know now we just have these enhanced capabilities each of us and um and it's a big problem. We're going after a huge opportunity and we need everyone to be super efficient and we need also be able to communicate more efficiently by using AI. So like you know we have a we have the agents like opening linear tickets and um summarizing and like you know helping us really stay organized and actually be much more efficient from the entire you know organizational perspective as well.
>> Yeah. Um Karen, I'm c I'm curious maybe shifting gears a little bit into like more of a value acrruel uh I I I think the space has been challenged with this Jevans paradox pretty difficultly um in the sense that uh and I' I've asked several founders and and you know from kind of different companies here like I've asked Joseph Shalom as with respect to Ethereum I asked uh Dell from Stellar about this and and uh the founder of AVAX as well and and just across the board, you know, the the goal of several of these networks is bringing transaction costs down for a similar purpose, universal market access and and enhancing the user base and the user capabilities of these networks. um fund it feels fundamentally contradictory to the value acrual thesis for a lot of these networks uh in terms of you know the goal is to charge fees and and acrew value and the way that that's done is taking a portion of you know a fee on these transactions and so I I I understand Jeff's paradox is look induce supply make it you know exorbitantly affordable to transact on this network and you know explode the amount of activity that's happening on this network. And if that's the case, then, you know, we get the best of both worlds because we get, you know, very affordable transactions. A lot of people can use it. They don't pay a lot of fees, but because of the network effect and the large user base, um, you know, the network itself is still able to, you know, acrew value and and and sustain.
And so I'm just I'm curious if this is on the right track, if we still are just so early that you know we should continue to make these things more scalable uh get more activity here ultimately you know the network effects will prevail or maybe there's another perspective or another approach to this to this paradox.
>> Yeah, I think the key phrase in that question is network effects. I think that you know, it's it's trivial to spin up um a thousand forks of Ethereum or 10,000 forks of Ethereum or 10,000 forks of Monad and just say like, okay, well, now we have 10,000x the block space that we did before. Um, and each one is like running on some different but the the problem is the the network effects would not be there on the other 9,999 copies. Um the network effects are the all the users, all the capital, all the applications, all the indexing, all of the um capital allocators, all the curators, all the integrations, um all of the oracle, like all of that stuff.
That's what is really valuable and that's what um that's the network effects are the reason why Salana generated $1.5 billion of transaction fees in 2024.
um or it's um and this is a little bit dated now, but like that's the reason why Ethereum um generated in excess of $3 billion of transaction fees in 2021.
Um it's because everyone wants to be there. Everyone wants to be in that environment where everything else is. Um and so I think transaction fees are um relatively cheap now on on Monad, but we would love to see them be even cheaper.
Um the goal is just the growth of usage and ultimately the value that end users get from using apps um or getting access to capital or getting access to opportunities and then you know there's some amount of fees that end up getting paid to the computational network that delivers all of that. Um but but we have to start with the value to end users first.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. and and you know the the way you describe you know the proximity to uh where the action is if you will like on Ethereum in 2021 on Salana in 24 you know it it showcases uh the value of popular transa uh uh apps and applications and and where the attention is ultimately draws people in and that is what people are willing to pay for.
>> Yeah. I I also would just say that, you know, one of the paradoxes of crypto is that um as I said, like you can you could fork Ethereum 10,000 times and just run all those copies, but you know, everyone will still be want to be on the original one. Um and I just think that there will be a consolidation of networks over the next coming years, like the next one to two years. We used to say, "Oh, there'll be a thousand blockchains. They'll all have like a ton of activity." And and then we said, "Well, there as an industry, we said, but there'll probably be a hundred." And I just think that actual number where all that activity is happening will be concentrated in just a couple. Um, and the reason why people will pick those couple is because of the services that are there, the apps, the capital, um, the opportunities, and then also the fundamental properties of the network that probably are what attract those builders. and attract that capital. And those are things like me resistance, pre-trade privacy, privacy, um, and trust performance, decentralization, um, trust minimization.
>> Yeah, as we like to say, the the table's being set and, uh, you know, there there's only so many tokenized equities and tokenized deposits and stable coins to go around. And this is still very very early and there's trillions to go around, but they are finite and they will end up on a finite amount of chains. Yeah, on this note, we have a question here from uh one of our loyal community members on this note of kind of like uh this consolidation and and really Monad having a place at the table, right? Is what is the bake the breakout app or app category that puts Monad on the map in kind of like a bigger uh consumer grade way? like do you have a ever growing thesis or sector or app or kind of a general philosophy on the breakout of the Monad brand as a chain in terms of user base similar to kind of like Salana Trump memecoin was what is that like sector or breakout category or app on monad >> I think I have some some theories on on what'll be successful but I think it's also really up to the individual builders to um just go take their shot and and improve themselves. I think generally speaking um we think that the the motion of um working with fintex and getting crypto embedded in the consumer apps that they ultimately you know have they have like tens of millions or hundreds of millions of users that's extremely productive and um so there's a lot of efforts in place um within the Monad Foundation to bring many users on chain um perhaps without them even realizing it by giving them access to um DeFi through more of like a traditional uh interface. Um but I but I think that >> yeah it's a it's a mix of like working with existing companies and then um cultivating an environment of um extreme entrepreneurship. And so that's really what um our Nitro accelerator which uh launched about two months ago um giving $500,000 to um a select uh number of teams that are getting their first round of funding um from great investors and getting their shot um going out and competing as early stage entrepreneurs.
It's a combination of that um you know working with enterprises, working with fintexs and then supporting really early stage builders. And these are kind of like two separate paths, right? You got like a very like enterprise fi like finance fintech pure distribution plays like deal signing SLAs's licensing with large applications, neo banks down in Latin America, the largest trading platforms in the states, you know, Asian like anything from like a WeChat all the way to like their food delivery application. And then you've got like very much like onchain native consumer retail products that are like kind of like innovative new zero to one uh ideas.
>> That's right. Yeah.
>> Well, Kona, man, I know you're busy. I appreciate you spending some time with us today. Um it's been fantastic to chat and kind of catch up into this next era of the space. Like I said, previously we were speaking a lot about kind of like the technical side and like having these debates. We've thoroughly enjoyed that era of of our show and of of the industry, >> but it's very much like into this >> as I said, show me the money application focused breakout application breakout viewpoint like branding and um revenue business models. It's it's quickly evolved and and maturing and um I think you have a you know you guys are in a great spot. So I appreciate you spending some time with us.
>> Thank you. Yeah, I think the good news is that um we have an amazing uh R&D team that's continuing to um put in the work to deliver the technologies that um and they're they're really excited.
They're really um passionate and they, you know, have very deep-seated beliefs about the technical product that's needed. Um and they'll keep doing that even if there's no spotlight on that. Um because ultimately that that that ends up delivering something that does matter to the end user, but then at the same time um you know we're here talking about the um adoption and the products and um building that bridge to the rest of the world because you really need both ultimately um in order to deliver long-term value and success.
>> Yeah, it's really important. Thanks for uh all the great work, Kone, and uh we'll see you next time on the show, guys. We'll be right back with our next guest, David Sheamus.
>> Don't go to see you in the chat. New type. Thank you for the uh question for Ke and thank you Ke for joining us guys and we'll be right back.
>> Thanks for having me. Thanks man.
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Going 70 7th floor.
All righty, guys. We are back here in the tokenization tower with David Sheamus, CEO of Hyperlid Strategies, following a huge update from them today following a Knicks win. David, what a game. [laughter] >> That was a hell of a game. There's no doubt. I wish I could say I didn't fall asleep, but I fell asleep, >> man. You guys add you guys had a huge announcement today uh bringing the shares of per hype holdings 26.2 2 million total hype, added 2.5 million hype tokens last week, getting up to about 2 and a half% of the supply or so.
210 million share count. You issued 22 million new shares last week. $199 million in cash. So you added $50 million in cash while also buying $150 million of hype last week. Total like your average entry is about that. I've got on 31 here, but I think last closer to 39. It's come up. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'd love to be able to buy in the 20s like I was in in January, but I can't be doing that now. Yeah.
>> Uh so yeah, look, we we've >> had a nice MNAV for a while. And generally speaking, you know, when hype's moving in the right direction, which it had up until, I don't know, a week ago or so, uh we're able to use that MNAV to issue stock and just run the playbook. Like it's not complicated.
Uh we run the DAT playbook. Um, we try our best not to pretend to market time because when you try to do that, you get it wrong more than you get it right because we're all humans. So, we try to be as disciplined as possible. Um, and it's basically been working. Now, obviously, as you said, the average price, our average price overall has gone up. That's okay. That's supposed to happen. Um, and you know, we're bigger and bigger percentage of the total. Uh, which feels good. I think the the we're 26 or something million tokens right now. Yeah. Uh, and the circulating supply is 200 or so million. So, we're actually about like 10% of the of the circulating supply, a little more.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that feels really good to us. And as far as I'm concerned, uh, when you look at our MNAV, on one hand, we're at that sort of decent level and it's pretty volatile. So, there have been points where it's higher or lower. Last I checked, like before I left the office, you know, when you add back the DTL, we're still hovering around one or a little bit slightly above one. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> So, like as an investor, you know, it's pretty easy to invest in this if you want to get hype exposure because like it's not a ridiculous price you're paying.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got it at 1.12xmnav as of live on the hl.eco site.
>> That's probably I think that is with that is what we're deducting the deter tax liability. I think if you add it back it's I don't know I don't have it in front of me but it's probably 1.02 or something.
>> Got it. Um, and you know that li we only pay that liability is if if we ever sell tokens. If we never sell a token, we never pay that tax.
>> I tell you, you guys aren't planning on selling any tokens.
>> We are certainly not planning on selling any tokens. Uh, we have, as per this announcement, you know, close to $200 million of cash, right, >> on our balance sheet. On the other hand, I want to be really clear like I'm not Michael Sailor. I'm not a zealot. you know, our job uh in the end is to create as much shareholder value for our shareholders as possible. And if the circumstance came where we needed to sell tokens to do that, we would do that. Yeah. Like we're not we're not religious zealots. We're corporate finance geeks. And I'm I'm proud of that. I was at a I was at a dinner two weeks ago.
>> I'm not going to mention any names. I was at dinner two weeks ago. It was was a dinner about Purr and Hype.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And there was probably I don't know eight or 10 people in the room and I said what I just said to you guys.
>> Yeah. And one guy was like, "I'm out of here." And literally like in the appetizer course, he gets up and leaves.
I'm like, "What? Where are you going?"
He's like, "I would never invest in anyone that would ever sell a token."
>> I'm like, "Okay, it's fine. No, no problem." Uh I said, "There are plenty of crypto zealots out there that you can find who they'll be happy to take your money."
>> Yeah. But like, you know, we're we're we're super long and super bullish hype, but we're not, you know, we're not religious zealots.
>> Yeah.
>> Anyway, I didn't mean to go off track, but it >> No, that's a that's a helpful story to kind of paint the picture that there are zealots out there like like you said.
And um >> there's no shortage of religious zealots in the crypto world.
>> Yeah. No shortage at all.
>> Um is there a target amount? You know, we've heard 5% tossed around out there as like the target percentage of the supply that some of these DS want. Is that a similar number? Do you have in mind a target?
>> So let let's think talk about this. So the circulating supply right now I don't have these numbers exact but off the top of my head is 220 or 240 some odd tokens in total. When we think about you know what's the total tokens outstanding that would equate to the shares outstanding of a public company. We think the number is like 477 million. And we're actually going to be upgrading our website pretty soon. That's one thing we're going to be adding, which is, you know, our version of what we think equates to shares outstanding of a public company. And that 477 is basically circulating supply plus the unvested unlocked stuff that the team has cuz they're going to those people aren't quitting their jobs, right? They're that's going to vest over time. It's going to unlock and that equates to about 477 million right now.
So, if you think of our 26 or whatever the number was divided by the 477, you know, we're a little more than 5%. Um, I there's no like I have no uh limit as to where I think that number should be. 100 would seem strange to me, [laughter] >> but you know, um, we're happy to keep increasing that as the market permits.
>> Yeah. And so, when you guys issue new shares like you did last week and you announced it this week, >> um, there's there's like a couple things happening here. There's a separate credit facility that you guys can access that I believe you haven't quite accessed yet.
>> No, we have. We have. So, so let me explain that because it is um unnecessarily confusing.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh there's something called an E-LOCK, equity line of credit.
>> Yeah.
>> All an ELOC is is for a company that is less than one year old, which is what our company is, >> which means you're not S3 eligible. So, if you're less than one year old, you're not S3 eligible. You can't do a normal ATM that lots of companies do.
>> I see.
>> So because we can't do a normal ATM, we have to do an ELOC. And frankly, the only practical difference is there's like more fees in the ELOC than there is in the ATM. So once we get to one year, which is December 2nd, not that I'm counting, um we'll be able to file an S3, then we'll be uh shelf eligible, which means we can do regular ATMs and it'll it'll really look and feel exactly the same. It'll just cost us a little less money.
>> Um now, the only caveat to that is there has been some announcements from the SEC that that might be actually getting rid of that one-year rule. So it might be that we missed that because we'll be one year in December or maybe we'll catch the tail end of that where we'll be able to be S3 eligible earlier which would be great but the so the ELOC we have tapped it.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I don't know the exact number 400 some odd million in total out of the billion we've done but we can obviously there's ways to extend that and all that. So like it's not like that's some hard limit that we'll never go above >> but but we have done that and I think people have gotten confused because it's it's got a funny name equity line of credit. It's just an It's just an ATM in a different form.
>> Got it. And so when you issue those new shares, is that what you're Is that what you're able to tap the credit line on?
Is the total shares that that you guys own or when you issue those shares, you're then selling those shares to buy more hype and to raise cash?
>> Yeah. So again, don't don't get caught up with the term equity line of credit.
Like it's just an ATM. Yeah. We're we're or ATM like, you know, we're selling those shares to the market. We're taking in cash every day. We use those shares to buy more hype and then you know between this week and last week we also retain some cash. Yeah.
>> Um you know you'll see that'll change next week or whatever but um yes it's just literally cash comes in the door every day that we sell stock. We take that cash and we invest in hype.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It's not a not a complicated business model.
>> No no it it makes sense and it's easy to understand. And so you know we read off some of the numbers. Um, and we also kind of talked about the MNAV which is hovering around that, you know, one two 113 mark and and you mentioned, you know, DTL kind of brings that down to closer around one.
>> The the model makes a ton of sense when the MNAB is high. The ATM e-lock, you know, effectively you issue shares, use that cash to to, you know, keep cash on the balance sheet and use it to buy hype.
>> When the MNAB is closer to one, >> yeah. Is there anything like what what is there to do because it's not the prime conditions to go ATM e-lock? So what what do you do when the ATM is or the MNAB is around one?
>> So specifically around capital management, right? Because there's more things that companies do than capital management. But in this regard around capital management, let's just say for argument sake we're hovering around one.
I think the right answer to do is to do nothing.
>> Okay? And the key is you want to be in a position so you don't have to do anything. Um, you know, my former boss Chris Flowers, one of his great lines used to be that, you know, more times than not the right thing to be doing is playing squash.
>> Yeah.
>> Which means like just because you come to work and you get dressed up, don't think you have to do something to add value. Sometimes the right thing to do is to play squash or to go to the beach or whatever. So, you know, look and and but my point is about having cash, right? Like if you're a dad, like a lot of them we've seen who are on the edge of cash and are running out of cash, they're actually forced to do unnatural things, >> right? So like I think it is super unnatural for a DAT to be selling calls against their tokens.
>> Yeah.
>> But we've seen a lot of them. I literally I probably get three or four calls a week from, you know, sort of crypto option dealers out there who are shocked to hear that we're not selling calls. And they tell me how every other dad I know >> Yeah.
>> is does that all the time.
>> And like I understand if you're trading at whatever a 0.95 MNAV or a 0.9 MNAV and you're running out of cash while you have to do it, right? Like you're too high to liquidate but you're too low to issue stock and you got to keep the lights on. But you know, we've worked hard a to have plenty of cash. We don't have to worry about that. B we have four employees including myself. So we keep the expense burn light. You know, we we sublet office at Atlas Merchant Capital, my private equity firm. We don't have our own office and our own fancy stuff.
We keep the the burn really light. And I think those are unnatural things to do.
Selling token, selling selling calls against your tokens. Some people say we should we should be selling puts. Like there's lots of things you can do. Uh it's all sort of interesting, entertaining, but unless we thought we were getting really good value, we wouldn't do it. The other thing we hear a lot about and maybe you know, you know, people call me all the time and say, "You should be doing converts. you should be doing debt.
>> Yeah, >> we've done none of that. I'm I would never say never if we think there's real value. You know, debt markets do crazy things all the time. So, being on the other end of crazy things is a good thing to do. Um on the other hand, like you know, unless we thought the economics were really really um you know, sort of interesting, we don't we don't have to fill our day doing those things. Just doing nothing's okay.
>> Yeah. you know, before you or after our last show, we had this slew of announcements that were hitting. So, you were on the show, hyper trading like 38, 39, 40 was kind of right around. We were talking about your break even and then all of a sudden we get this Coinbase in circle announcement where the six billion give or take of USDC on Hyper Core um there was a deal that was struck that is 90% of that revenue going to hyperlquid to the assistance fund for buybacks. Yes.
>> And there's an amazing site HL Eco um stables that shows based on the interest rate which is around like the 3.25% 25%.
Now, that's an additional $175 to $200 million a year in buybacks of hype just because they were able to secure that deal.
>> Yep.
>> And that part of the thesis was not part of the thesis. We were just talking about HIPP3 $3 billion of OI huge kind of gamechanging moment for the industry.
But now you add on to add this on. Yes.
from the regulatory side, from the economic side, just give us h how this has evolved the hype liquid thesis from your perspective from, you know, mostly those two angles.
>> Look, uh those are two big big ones, you know, on on USDC and by the way, I'm a circle shareholder as a firm at Atlas Merchant Capital. We were investors in Circle, so I have two hats on this one.
Um, but I will tell you, um, it's a really amazing example of when you have sort of power, when you have power to be able to move pricing, how it really works. And, you know, when I've talked this story about what went on between Circle/Cinbase and and Hyperlquid, I dramatize a little bit. I actually wasn't in the middle of it. I found out about it the same time you did. So, it's not like I have any inside info here.
But, you know, I get the impression that sort of last fall or so, Hyperlid said to the USDC people, you know, we have all this USDC on Hyperlid, we should be getting a cut of it, and they said no.
So, Hyperlid did USDH its own token, its own stable coin. And the amazing part about it was, you know, from then until whatever it was a month and a half ago, USDH got some traction. It wasn't blowing the doors off by any stretch. I mean the last number I saw which was like you know a hundred million or so I tell like not exactly cutting into USDC in a big way and somehow just doing that got the 100 got got got the 9010 deal >> um which was pretty amazing I don't know what deal would have been acceptable back in September for the team >> maybe more maybe less I don't know but um it's it shows you you know circle clearly does not want to lose one nickel of reserves and I don't blame blame them, by the way, like they're still very much in the growth mode. Um, and they want to see that moving in that in the right direction. So, I understand why Circle Coinbase did it and I think it was a it was an sort of the way I see it, it was like a eight or nine month negotiation from Hyperlquid and then they did a hell of a job negotiating.
And then from the regulatory side, from the economic side, what is this change about the thesis from from your perspective?
>> Well, as you say, I mean, you know, the day it was announced, it was$175 or $200 million sort of plateau up in in revenues that go, you know, right to the bottom line to the assistance fund.
>> Uh it's super meaningful. It's not it wasn't, you know, a 3% change. It was a material change. Um and there's a reason the token moved what it did. Most interesting thing actually if you literally go and find out when that announcement was and you look at where the token it didn't like react immediately.
>> Yeah. It took a day.
>> It took a day or so. And it what that shows you is like >> you know we all you know everyone in this room is sitting there looking at their screens 24/7 and watching Twitter and super focused on on crypto. It still shows you these markets are not like uber efficient. Like I'm pretty sure if we woke up tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m.
or whatever and found out Nvidia revenue just took a 20% plateau up. I'm pretty sure that would react like that the stock.
>> Yeah.
>> Here it didn't. And there's just still some inefficiencies like you know people had to figure out the hell that means.
You know you read it, you read it again.
What does that really mean? How bullish are you? And you know the crypto markets and hype in particular as far as just market efficiency goes in where it trades. I think still has some room to go before it's at, you know, Nvidia level, which by the way is a good thing, right? That shows there's like still plenty of time to get in here. You haven't missed it.
>> Yeah.
>> Just on that note, I'm curious and I was going to ask you at the top of the show, how many times do you check the hype price a day?
>> A lot. [laughter] I mean, you know, >> it makes two of us.
>> You know, look, it's a different world when you have a 247 asset, right? Like >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's, you know, I I don't, you know, there are two or three hour periods that go by in my life where I haven't checked it, but I usually say, "Wow, it's been two or three hours. I better check it."
>> And, you know, like probably everyone we all know, I sleep with my phone next to my bed >> and I put in airplane mode and, you know, as soon as I wake up and turn it on and the first thing I check is what the hype price is, >> naturally.
>> Uh, so, you know, look, you can't help that in a 247 market. But by the way, like this is a this is what's coming for everybody, right? Like we all know eventually all equity markets, all these markets going to go 247. Just a question of how and when. And in a lot of ways they already are, right? Like there are lots of ways to trade Nvidia and Tesla after market and and you could get prices sort of anytime. And obviously HIPP 3 and Hyperlid is a has become a big part of that, but I check I check it a lot.
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Um, and so you know, you can trade things after hours, 24/7, also before they even exist. SpaceX, uh, last time we checked, I think it was around 170, 175.
>> I checked earlier, it was like 168 last I checked.
>> Um, and so I think that puts it around maybe just under 167 and a half right now.
>> Okay.
>> With like a ton of open interest, too.
Like $165 million open interest.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's moving in the right direction. I mean, when you say a ton, that is a spec compared to what we're going to have tomorrow.
>> But it's not it's not it's not a it's it's significant. It's not a nonmeful amount.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> And look, I've been carrying on about this a lot on Twitter.
>> Twitter. I was going to ask you about this. Yeah.
>> Look, I've been carrying on about this a lot. I mean, if you look at Cabris, right, which which already happened.
Yeah.
>> Right. Um, Cerus was a little easier of a story because basically it came out on Hyperlid. It popped up. It sort of crept up a bit over time. the IPO priced 35% below where it was on hyperlquid and then the market price know the equity price shot right to the hopper the hyperl price and it's it's borderline straight line which was was amazing to see >> you know on SpaceX so far you know it comes out on hyperl it shoots up >> it's dribbled down quite it's actually sort of went down then it sort of plateaued for a while and then it's kind of shot down a lot over the last few days I don't know why I assume What's been going on is, you know, guys like me yelling at Elon saying, you know, dude, 135 is too low. Look at where it's trading on Hyperlquid. Clearly, they're not changing the price. It's happening tomorrow at 135. And presumably, there's some disappointment in that.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's come down a lot. I assume like I can't tell you where SpaceX is going to be in a month from now.
>> Um I'm not even sure I can tell you where it's going to be like a week from now. I'm pretty sure it's going to open pretty close to where it's trading on Hyperlid right now. like that I have a fair amount of confidence in. I don't have an order to buy any at 135, but I kind of wish I did right now, but I'd probably sell it at 167 tomorrow. And and look, it's easy to sit here and say that now. It's al it's always easy to say talk about stuff when you don't have a position, which I don't. But there's a decent chance that the SpaceX on Hyperlid over the next whatever, you know, 18 hours is going to be really fun to watch. Yeah, >> this was one of the things that the ICE chairman, New York Stock Exchange owner, Jeffrey uh Specker, uh he he talked about how relevant this was going to be when SpaceX launched. How he he said it was either going to be highly relevant or highly irrelevant because of how disjointed or or consistent it is with the price that it is on Hyperlid. Of course, this is in the midst of everything else, you know, positive things that he had to say about Hyperlid, bigger than NASDAQ, all those things. Incredible to see. Just curious about your reaction to those comments and then does is he on the right track here? Like this is going to be pretty important to make sure that we have some price consistency between hyperl ultimately where this ends up.
>> Yeah, meaningful price discovery. I think that's really the term. By the way, it was great to hear him say those were bigger than NASDAQ. I would say of every sort of titan in the exchange room to say that. I understand why for from his point of view is a little bit of a competitive thing to say NASDAQ and I kind of love it. Um but you look it's super important, right? like you know the whole point here is that we believe strongly I believe strongly that hyperlquid is providing really interesting price discovery and you know Sarah Brris was an and I I tweeted about this there's a chart floating around that I put together was amazing it was it was almost a flat line uh it was it was near perfect on price discovery for that we'll see how it is on hyp on SpaceX tomorrow SpaceX look >> cerebrus I think you know generally speaking was sort of a regular way IPO Right. IPOs happen all the time. This was somewhat of a regular way IPO.
SpaceX is like nothing we've ever seen before. So like plenty of weird stuff is probably going to it's already happened.
It will probably will happen with this thing.
>> So um I feel like as a hyperlquid guy, >> I have a one-way option here. Meaning if it predicts the price perfectly, I'm be running around saying it predict the price perfectly. If it doesn't, >> I'm going to say SpaceX is so different.
And you know, I I will I will take my mull in there because I think SpaceX really is different. The next one that comes out, I will stick back to my guns that it needs to provide serious price discovery. I I think it will. My money's still my my my livelihood is still on it doing a good job there, but we'll see.
It is it is a pretty wild one.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, we we we've just had these string of incredible fundamental and market catalysts for Hype Liquid this year. I mean, HIPP3 that was huge on the fundamental side. Then you had this Coinbase news. Huge on the fundamental side, also huge catalyst, then Cababus, then SpaceX, then Anthropic, then open AI. Like there will just be this continued attention.
>> You forgot the most important one, by the way, which was a war in Iran.
>> Yeah.
>> That started, you know, Friday late late on a Friday when the oil markets, the traditional markets were going to be closed for the next 48 hours.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, that was talk about like insane.
>> Yeah. I think that's what got, you know, the CME's attention. I mean, how can they not notice that?
>> So, On the No, no. On the on the IPO side though, how how important do you think getting anthropic and open AI are to Hyperlid? After that, we're going to get a draw down in terms of like the amount of IPOs coming out like the hype around AI is it's going to be like the maximum point of hype with those two IPOs. How important are those moments for Hyperlid? Well, look, um, it is a foregone conclusion that when those two IPOs happen, they will come on, you know, hyperlquid via trade XYZ preo just like these others have. I don't want to swear to it, but I'm pretty sure they're going to do that and that'll happen. So, it's definitely going to happen. It's not like we hope it happens. It's going to happen. To me, the two questions are A, how much volume and open interest do we get and do we see it picking up with each new IPO? Um, and B, how good of a how good at it as as a price discovery.
And those two things are related to each other, right? Like for every one that happens, the better they are at discovering the price on hyperlquid, the more the next one more capital the next one should attract because people are saying this is real, this is meaningful.
So both those two things sort of feed on each other. But I I expect these, you know, you're right. It's been a nice year for Hyperlid because a number of things keep happening that are super relevant to it. Yeah.
>> And SpaceX, Anthropic, Open AAI all fall into that bucket. I think it's be great to see and and I, you know, again, SpaceX is a different animal, but I I I will still predict that each one of these in succession will attract more volume and more open interest than the last one.
>> Yeah, >> that that's that's my expectation, and we'll see if I'm right.
>> Yeah. Interesting. One of the things that, you know, the the owner of the New York Stock Exchange said that I'm I'm looking to confirm this because it sounded almost bizarre when he said it, but he, if I recall correctly, he said that these markets could actually be bigger than the IPO markets themselves.
And I'm just curious if there's credence to that claim, if it's a reason because the derivative can be bigger than the spot. What what I mean to think about the scale of this if you know there is more volume and open interest here it it it does indicate better price discovery and if it actually is bigger than the other market it becomes the canonical price and almost the leading indicator.
>> Yeah. Well I think it's look I think it's already a leading indicator. What the thing what I think he was getting at was you know at some point it's going to become you know the investment banker sitting in a room and picking where to price something is going to become less and less relevant and as you say like if it the bigger it gets bigger than the IPO sounds amazing to me but like the bigger it gets over time the more important it's going to be and like you know if you're a big institutional investor and you planned on investing in you know whatever SpaceX or whatever and you're worried that you're not, you know, you put in an order for X number of shares and you're worried you're going to get cut back by a lot, you know, being able to do it on Hyperlquid beforehand is really good.
>> And and you know, I I personally believe that discount, the difference between where IPO is getting priced and where they're trading on Hyperlid, that will shrink a lot over time. I over the years even before I ever heard of hyperlquid uh I have personally been a big proponent if that's the right word uh of you know of the sort of sell side meaning the guys that are selling their companies and IPO versus the buy side.
I've always thought that the idea of an IPO discount is ridiculous.
>> Like it's literally just paying a toll to the buy side and why do we have to do that?
>> Um and I think this is a way to really solve that. Yeah.
>> And to to really change that.
>> Yeah. and make that market so much more efficient. Um, you know, also another catalyst that, you know, we we didn't really talk about, but is is very related here is that, you know, pers are coming to the US. There's regulation here. Uh, there was the approval as well, >> ETFs as well. Um, I mean, just on the regulatory side, uh, you know, we saw KHI was able to get its Bitcoin per out there. They also now announced that they're they have hyperlquid per um on KSHI as well. And so I'm curious because I saw some mixed opinions out there. I mean bullish or bearish I guess is the reductive way to frame it. But you know I can kind of frame the argument two ways. On one hand you know hyperlquid is going to become available to US customers. Um that's going to unleash a lot of capital. On the other hand we're going to see new entrance into this market. Regulated players you know some of which we've been talking about could enter and maybe siphon off some of that market share. Which one offsets the other? where how do you think regulatory regulation is going to affect Hyperlquick's market share?
>> Yeah, look, that's a lot a lot of good questions there and let me try to tackle them and tell me what what I missed.
First of all, I would say most importantly, like I've been investing in financial services companies for 26 plus years. Um, let me be the first to break it to everybody. Very few, if any, financial services companies in the world have true franchise value. Right?
There's very little you can do in the financial services world that someone else can't replicate. Yeah.
>> Right. Like American Express, that's a franchise value, right? Like that black card, people love it. It has cache. It's hard to just replicate that. There's not a long list, right? So to think that you can be in any financial services business that nobody can ever replicate is crazy. And I don't think Hyperlquid isn't either. So, you know, the more success they have, the more capital it's going to be chasing to try to to try to do what they're doing. And I take that as a compliment. So, that's sort of fact number one. Uh, fact two is, look, they've had competition so far. Needless to say, they have plenty of competition for the Binancees of the world, you know, on the centralized exchange side, they had, you know, a year ago or whatever, nine months ago, all people could talk about visavid was Aster and Lighter and saying, "Here come some real competitors. CZ is behind Aster like here come the big boys and I think while they're certainly still around they're not they're they're meaningful I think people sitting here today feel pretty confident that Hyperloopa did a pretty good job fighting off that competitor >> um and look I think Per's coming to the US which itself could be you know a two-hour podcast >> um I think that's while Hyperlid is not day one doing that right she is Hyperlid's not that's clear it's a huge step in the right direction for Hyperlid. There is a reason like the day that ca that was announced hyperlquid move moved up because it is a big step in the right direction and I think that um one way or the other and it's not exactly clear to me which way it'll be but one way or the other I think hyperlquid will figure out how to be how to get to the US and you know on one hand I think it's probably not a big secret that there are probably retail traders in the US right now using VPNs to be on hyperlquid but that's fine but that's not the big kahuna right the big kahuna is you know institutional investors um whether it's trading crypto or trading Nvidia or trading oil you know having them you know online in hyperlquid I and I think to date that's been probably either zero or near zero is our our impressions >> and this is a big step per step to getting there >> and the ETFs are kind of you know we haven't talked too much but it's similar where it's like it opens up another uh pathway for people to buy into these assets. But from what I understand, there's different like regulatory uh pathways that certain types of firms can get exposure to uh certain assets. Like there's some firms out there that can't buy the ETFs, but they can buy hyperlid strategies and I'm I'm not sure if it goes vice versa. But I'm just curious, PER has been the way to express bullishness on Hyperlid in the public markets.
>> Prior to ETFs, there was no other way.
Yeah. That >> allegedly led to premium to kind of like the singular golden child. uh kind of uh you know uh format of investing and then now we have the ETFs. Do you think the ETFs are siphoning flows off of per >> So what's your take on this?
>> I have two answers for this uh from two sides of my brain. On one side of my brain I can't help but be competitive.
I'm a competitive guy. We're all competitive guys. Like I can't help myself. Um and you know everyone who wakes up tomorrow morning and says I want to get some hype exposure. I want them buying a share per stock, not a share of the ETF. Um that being said um in the end right five years from now we're all talking about this like this will be a success for all of us me you guys any investor um not at whether the MNAV a year and a five years from now is 1.2 two versus 1.1. It's where the hype has gone up a lot. Yeah. And the ETFs, you know, being out there talking about it, getting more more people, you know, engaged and more ways to do it. Like as you said, there are some people that probably prefer per over an ETF. There are some people prefer ETF over PER. It might be a an investment choice. It might be some legal or regulatory difference they have. Like whatever it is, markets like choices. And generally speaking, the right side of my brain or whatever is perfectly happy, perfectly happy to have to have more avenues for people to get hype exposure. So the net of that I think is positive. I'm happy the uh the the ETFs are out there. I think someone I saw some analysis someone did on the thing we announced this morning which you know is a week delayed. So it was really what we did in the week ending you know last Thursday.
I think we issued more stock than all the ETFs combined took in. So like we're still doing well against them. But I don't, you know, if they take in a lot and hype goes up a lot, like I'm not going to be that upset about that.
>> Yeah, we're good.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And um do you So, you know, we were invested in this relative strength trade, right? And so, you know, I'm curious how because things have shifted a little bit in recent days, right? And so we're still generally, you know, part of this. Um, Bitcoin doesn't maybe, you know, it's not cooperating, let's say.
And then, you know, these IPOs are sort of a double-edged sword. They're bringing a ton of interest to and open interest and volume to Hyperlquid. It has this entirely new, you know, revenue stream and product line as a result of it. Um, but at the same time, people are a little bit skeptical of how this these IPOs could affect the market. Um and and we're, you know, kind of see the first of three and then we're going to have a couple more.
Do you think Hyper, how do you think Hyperlid reacts in kind of the be in maybe the best case scenario, worst case scenario given the macro headwinds, tailwinds? Just curious, you know, where what your view is of macro and the AI trade nowadays and you know, obviously Hyperlid is a part of that.
>> Yeah, I would say a few things. one, I've heard the theory that, you know, Bitcoin's come down so much because a lot of that air is going into SpaceX, whatever else. And I don't doubt that.
Like, I'm not sure that's true, but I wouldn't argue against that either. It sounds plausible to me. Um, I think I don't think Hyperlid goes into that category. Um, I mean, look, in general, there's no doubt there's some correlation with Bitcoin and the other large cryptos. On the other hand, like if you look at 2026 so far, there's not a whole lot of correlation. like it's not doesn't look correlated at all. Um, but the point is >> let's let's let's assume that theory is true for a second that people are selling their Bitcoin to buy SpaceX, which I'm not sure I'd recommend, but let's say they're doing that. Like Bitcoin is trillions of dollars of market cap or whatever, more than a trillion market cap. I think SpaceX is more than a trillion market cap. These are huge things. Hyperlid is a spec compared to that. Um, and I think Hyperlquid has and will continue to trade more of a fundamental sort of like a regular company. It'll trade on what people think, you know, growth's going to be of revenue, growth of buybacks, the way sort of a regular company might trade and less about, you know, is Bitcoin up or down or whatever. So, I I think the combination of both fundamental analysis, which you can do on Hyperlid, you can't do it on on on Bitcoin, and no offense, you can't do that on SpaceX either.
>> [laughter] >> Um and the fact that like you know it's so small relative to Bitcoin and relative to ETH right now like if that air has come out of the tire this is like barely a breath relative to that.
>> So so you know bit Bitcoin finding lows in the 50s 40s range that that that that people seem to think is certain. We'll see what happens. You don't you think you think Hyp has this has this ability to kind of just trade in a divergent way? I definitely do, but I'm not going to sit here and say there's no correlation. Of course, there's correlation, right? Like, if crypto goes away entirely, like that ain't good for Hyperlquid, right? Like, let's let's be really clear. Um, and you know, so much of what Hyperlid is able to build, so much of what got Hyperlquid to where it is, both literally and figuratively, right, are the crypto rails that are below it. Yeah.
>> That Bitcoin sort of led the way on and Ethan all led the way on that. So like there's no doubt like you know directionally cryp strong crypto is very good for hyperlquid and weak crypto is not. I just think that the correlation we have seen in hyperlquid sort of up until if you look at a chart of hyperlquid sort of premid January and post mid January of this year it is like totally different from a correlation point of view.
>> Um but but don't get me wrong like Bitcoin going to 40 you know in of itself cannot be good for hyperquick.
>> Yeah. Well, David, man, I think we have a little gift for you, man.
>> I love gifts.
>> What I'm here for.
>> Uh, this is something from our team here. There's a couple things here.
>> Oh, wow.
>> So, this is a Hyperlid Strategies engraved wine box with a nice bottle in there.
>> Awesome. That is great. Thank you very much. Oh my gosh.
>> Good. There it is. A flask with my name on it. I own a couple flasks. I have to admit I haven't used them in a while.
Uh, but I definitely should with this one. That is awesome. Thank you, guys.
>> There's a nice There's a nice bottle of wine in here. And this just opens up.
>> Oh, that is totally awesome.
>> Pull it out. This is actually goes down and in there.
>> Engraved by >> our last job. Very impressive.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Very impressive. This is It's too nice to drink.
>> This is a thank you for uh you know, fighting the good fight out there >> uh amongst all right from the corporate folks.
>> I'll say two points. One, I absolutely appreciate it uh entirely. Two, I will remind everybody the first rule of Wall Street is there's no such thing as a free lunch. [laughter] >> Ladies and gentlemen, that is David Sheamus from the Tokenization Tower. I think that also wraps up our show today.
The the Plume team is going to get some recordings in. We're hot in here. As always, guys, thank you for rocking with us in the show today. It's been an amazing show. Um so much going on >> and go Knicks. Go Hyper Liquid.
>> Go Nick. Go Hyperlquid. You know where we will be. Same place, same time, 12:30 p.m. Eastern here in the Empire State Building, Financial Capital World. Go Knicks. Go Hyperlid. Thank you guys.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[music] [music]
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