WPC1171 Claims Public Have No Rights — What Happens Next?

Added: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]All right.

[00:00:00]>> I'm good, thank you.

[00:00:01]>> What are you filming for?

[00:00:02]>> Pardon?

[00:00:02]>> What are you filming for?

[00:00:05]>> For my own purpose.

[00:00:06]>> What purpose is that?

[00:00:07]>> My own.

[00:00:09]>> Pardon?

[00:00:10]>> My own.

[00:00:11]>> Well, okay.

[00:00:16]>> Do I need a purpose to film?

[00:00:18]>> Huh?

[00:00:19]>> Do I need a purpose to film?

[00:00:21]>> Well, normally you do.

[00:00:22]>> No, I don't.

[00:00:23]>> But there's no need to get out.

[00:00:24]>> Well, first of all, could you identify yourself?

[00:00:26]>> It's 1171 NA.

[00:00:28]>> Uh, if you could actually state what the number is out loud, please. Not everyone can actually read.

[00:00:32]>> 1171 NA. No worries. So, what's the purpose of filming today?

[00:00:35]>> For my own purpose.

[00:00:36]>> Yeah, what's the purpose?

[00:00:36]>> My own purpose.

[00:00:38]>> Just what's the purpose?

[00:00:39]>> Because I want to film.

[00:00:40]>> Okay. Obviously, when we see people filming outside, we get a little bit worried.

[00:00:45]>> Yeah.

[00:00:45]>> There's terrorism, things like that.

[00:00:47]>> Okay, so you're calling me a terrorist?

[00:00:49]>> I'm asking you, okay?

[00:00:49]>> Okay. Well, then can you tell me then the last time when a police station was actually hit by a terrorist?

[00:00:54]>> Well, that's not the point.

[00:00:55]>> Okay. Yes, it is the point because it's predominantly, okay, it will be the public that will get hit by a terrorist, not the police.

[00:01:01]>> I think that's incorrect.

[00:01:02]>> No, it's not incorrect. You've only got to look at past events, okay, and you will actually see that.

[00:01:07]>> A man stands outside a police station filming for his own personal reasons when officers approach and begin asking questions. They want to know why he is recording the area and ask him to identify himself. Calm but firm, he refuses to explain beyond saying the filming is for his own purpose.

[00:01:24]>> Okay.

[00:01:24]>> [music] >> When you look at the last police station, the last police station that actually got hit by a bomb, okay, was in 1972.

[00:01:31]>> How about that?

[00:01:32]>> Okay. Yeah, that was a stabbing.

[00:01:34]>> Yeah, that's a terrorist [music] act.

[00:01:35]>> Okay. Yeah. So, then if that's the case, then should we then talk about a certain officer that killed a young woman when he when he was in uniform?

[00:01:43]>> No, but that was a member of the police that was a member of the police, okay, that actually killed a member of the public.

[00:01:50]>> Right.

[00:01:51]>> Okay.

[00:01:51]>> So, what's what's the point of that in terms >> Because it's my right, [music] okay, >> I'm I'm saying it's not right, but I'm asking why you're >> Because it because I can.

[00:01:59]>> Yeah, but for what reason? So, you've got powers >> reason. My own reason. I don't need to explain to you why I want to film.

[00:02:07]>> But we're asking you why. I mean, we've got powers under the terrorist act.

[00:02:10]>> What, section 43?

[00:02:11]>> To search you and search >> use section 43, okay, it will be unlawful for one.

[00:02:16]>> For why?

[00:02:17]>> Okay? Because it's my lawful right. And if you actually read the actual memo that got sent by the IOPCC, IOPCC.

[00:02:25]Sorry.

[00:02:25]>> The officers continue asking about the purpose behind the filming, explaining that police stations and cameras can raise security concerns. The filmer quickly challenges that reasoning and asks whether he is being viewed as a threat or terrorist simply for holding a camera.

[00:02:39]>> Uh back in 2020, right? It will actually state people can actually film a police station, okay? Police staff, police vehicles, okay? And section 43 should not be used, okay? In the actual event.

[00:02:53]>> surveillance? What about that?

[00:02:54]>> Okay.

[00:02:55]>> What if we What if we see you filming outside a police station?

[00:02:57]>> Okay. Well, then well, then let me put it to you this way. I'll put it very bluntly, okay? If you believe, okay, that it is, okay, then if you contact the counterterrorism squad Well, well, no. If you believe that if you Well, I'm just standing here, okay?

[00:03:12][music] If you believe If you believe that, okay, then you contact them.

[00:03:17]>> Well, no.

[00:03:17]>> Okay? But also as well, what are your reasonable grounds? What are your reasonable grounds?

[00:03:22]>> So, you've waited for a van to come out.

[00:03:24]How do I know you're not going to film when you're filming a police station?

[00:03:27]What for?

[00:03:28]>> Well, this is a public footpath. This is a public footpath.

[00:03:31]>> That's not a public >> It makes no difference. I can film I can film It Hang on. You say that that's private, okay? That is owned by the public.

[00:03:40]>> The discussion shifts toward terrorism concerns as the man questions how realistic those fears actually are. He argues that public places are more commonly targeted than police buildings [music] and points to historical incidents to support his opinion. The debate becomes increasingly serious.

[00:03:56]>> You made a presumption that I may go in.

[00:03:58]>> Well, yeah, of course.

[00:03:59]>> Okay. You made a presumption.

[00:04:01]Yeah, I know.

[00:04:02]Terrorists don't attack us. They do.

[00:04:04]Okay. I'm giving an example, aren't I?

[00:04:06]>> Yeah. And then and then should we then talk about actual people then that get abused by the police on a daily basis?

[00:04:13]>> Is that what you're filming for?

[00:04:14]>> Okay.

[00:04:14]>> You're seeing if police are abusing people within the police >> Well, yeah. You tried to say about using section 43, okay? And that would have been an abuse of power.

[00:04:22]>> Well, it's not an abuse of >> You used You said the terrorism, yeah?

[00:04:25]Which is a completely lawful activity.

[00:04:27]It's a completely lawful activity.

[00:04:30]>> Right.

[00:04:30]>> It's a lawful activity.

[00:04:33]It makes no difference.

[00:04:34]Good afternoon.

[00:04:35]>> Hello. Have you spoken to one of our colleagues earlier?

[00:04:37]>> I've spoken to several of your colleagues.

[00:04:39]>> I had a conversation, yeah.

[00:04:40]>> That is in out here.

[00:04:41]>> Yeah.

[00:04:42]Okay. Could you identify yourself for me, please?

[00:04:44]>> PC McGann, 1263.

[00:04:46]>> Thank you very much.

[00:04:48]>> Why do you get so antsy when [music] police come and speak to you?

[00:04:52]>> I'm not antsy.

[00:04:53]No, no. I've had I've had several several good interactions here today, okay? [music] >> The filmer then turns the conversation toward police accountability, mentioning [music] past incidents involving officers and members of the public. He argues that isolated actions by individuals should not define everyone, just as his filming should not automatically raise suspicion.

[00:05:14]>> We're friendly over officers. I've had some really nice interactions with them.

[00:05:18]>> Okay.

[00:05:18]>> All right. And not one Not one of them even attempted to bring up to do with terrorists.

[00:05:24]>> Well, the first thing I see is when people come outside of a police building and start filming, that's the first thing I see. That's That's what I think.

[00:05:30]That's >> Well, then you need to actually rethink your actual mindset, okay?

[00:05:36]Well, yes, you do, okay? And when you see a member of the public, whether or not they're filming or not, okay? Maybe if you actually approach and say, uh, "Can I help you?" Okay? Like you did when you stuck your head out of the van, okay? But then it should be, okay, is there anything else I can do for you?

[00:05:52]Whatever, okay? I should be allowed to carry on and do what I'm lawfully allowed to do.

[00:05:56]>> you to. You've been You've been filming me for 8 minutes.

[00:05:58]>> Okay.

[00:05:59]>> So, I've allowed you to.

[00:06:00]>> Okay. Well, it's not about you allowing me to.

[00:06:03]>> You just told me to allow you to.

[00:06:04]>> It's not about you allowing me to. It's something that I'm rightfully within my rights to do so.

[00:06:09]>> Well, okay. You just told me to allow you to. I have for about 10 minutes now.

[00:06:13]So.

[00:06:13]>> Okay. What's your What's your first name? Uh I I won't give my name.

[00:06:18]>> Police continue pressing him about why he is recording, >> [music] >> but he remains consistent in his response. He insists that filming in public is his legal right and says he does not have to justify his reasons.

[00:06:29]The disagreement [music] becomes centered on personal freedoms.

[00:06:32]>> Uh what you want to do?

[00:06:34]>> I am I am not detained.

[00:06:35]>> You're you're auditing, right?

[00:06:37]>> I am, correct.

[00:06:38]Uh a public building.

[00:06:41]Okay, and a public service.

[00:06:42]>> it? Does the amount of resources come out or the vehicles?

[00:06:44]>> No, no, just just whatever I can see.

[00:06:47]Just whatever I can see. Whether or not a vehicle comes out, okay, an officer comes out, makes no difference. I'll film whatever I can see.

[00:06:53]>> just police stations you do or do you go and do it any other day?

[00:06:56]>> Any any public service.

[00:06:58]>> So, like a library? Would you go to there?

[00:06:59]>> Okay, yep.

[00:07:00]>> Fire brigade?

[00:07:00]>> Yep.

[00:07:01]>> Okay. Just I'm literally just >> Yeah, no, no, it's anything that the public It's anything that the public pay for.

[00:07:06]>> And what What do you do in your spare time then?

[00:07:09]>> Uh it all depends. It all depends.

[00:07:12]>> On what?

[00:07:14]On what you see?

[00:07:17]>> Yeah, I use it for my own personal interest.

[00:07:21]>> And how many hours do you put in a week, would you say?

[00:07:23]>> That's irrelevant to how many hours I put in.

[00:07:26]>> Do you enjoy it?

[00:07:27]>> I do enjoy it, yeah.

[00:07:29]>> When officers mention terrorism legislation and possible police powers, the filmer strongly pushes back. He refers to official guidance and argues that filming police stations, officers, and vehicles is lawful activity that should not automatically trigger suspicion.

[00:07:44]>> Sorry, we can look at the moment there and especially with the Met and then even then if you look at homicide police, okay, there is a massive divide between the public and the police.

[00:07:55]There is a massive divide. Okay? And that divide is something that needs to be closed because we need a police force without any shadow of doubt. It's very important that we have one.

[00:08:04]>> Yeah, it's a good relationship. That's why initially PCSOs were introduced, initially.

[00:08:09]>> Yeah, but then now there's loads of mixed views to do with that, okay, whether or not that was the actual right thing or was it actually better actually trying to get trained officers in.

[00:08:20]>> Well, they are trained officers.

[00:08:22]>> Well, no, they're Yeah, okay.

[00:08:26]They're not They're not in the same level as you guys as constables. [music] They're not in the same level.

[00:08:31]>> They don't have the same powers.

[00:08:33]>> Correct.

[00:08:34]Okay.

[00:08:35]>> They've got their own job. It's not the same level. It's just that they >> Yeah, they've been put in as in as a replacement, okay, to what used to be the whole old home beat officers.

[00:08:46]>> The conversation becomes more intense as both sides debate reasonable grounds and public safety. Officers question how they can know his intentions while he insists they are making assumptions without evidence and treating lawful filming as suspicious behavior.

[00:09:00]>> Okay, where they go out onto different estates.

[00:09:03]>> [music] >> Okay, and try and engage.

[00:09:06]Yeah.

[00:09:06]>> So, then you've got the PCSOs that are attached to the safe neighborhoods.

[00:09:10]The majority of them, not all of them, obviously, and they're trying to bridge that gap. So, is that what you're trying to um like look into then?

[00:09:18]>> Well, yeah, it's to see how how the police actually feel, okay, to do with it. And that's what I said, I've had some good interactions where an officer came out to me. He turned around and went, "You're all right." And I went, "Yes."

[00:09:30]>> And then Do you want to say why we come up and question you?

[00:09:32]>> Yeah, but >> There's a lot of people that, as you've already said, there's a lot of people that really don't like us.

[00:09:37]>> Yep. I welcome any interaction. I welcome any interaction. But, as soon as try and say about the terrorist act, okay, and all the rest of it, okay, then that is when, okay, it it won't go down the same line as what a normal civil conversation would have been.

[00:09:53]>> It's always great to to notice, and that's what it is linked with, cuz people gathering to take like information from police.

[00:10:02]>> Standing his ground, the man reminds officers that he is on public land and has no intention of entering the police station. He believes concerns about what he might do are based on speculation rather than facts, >> [music] >> and he refuses to accept that logic.

[00:10:16]>> uh buildings, and then they use that information, and unfortunately become quite destructive.

[00:10:22]>> Well, any place, really. It could be a tube station, train station.

[00:10:25]>> Yeah. Well, just remember, everything that I'm filming now, okay, can also be seen on Google Earth.

[00:10:32]>> Right.

[00:10:32]>> Okay? The only difference is is the actual interaction, okay, between myself and officers, because I can see the whole police station and everything from Google Earth. Okay?

[00:10:43]>> to see how like how many police are coming in and out, what times the police are coming in and out.

[00:10:46]>> I'm I'm I >> I don't I don't care what how many officers go in and out. I don't care what times they go in and out. I'm not here for that.

[00:10:55]>> But, when I came out straight away, I said, "Oh, what what are you doing?" And you didn't want to tell me. But, if you just said, "I do an audit. I do it on all public buildings." Then it would have >> But, I don't have to justify what I'm doing.

[00:11:04]>> But, I'm asking you a question. Just like if we walked past in the street and you wanted to ask me a question, >> Yeah. I'd answer it.

[00:11:09]>> And I said, "What did I turn around and say to you what I was doing?"

[00:11:13]>> A new officer joins the interaction, and the tone begins to soften. The filmer identifies the positive encounters he had with earlier officers and explains that not everyone approached him with suspicion.

[00:11:24]>> [music] >> This opens the door to a more civil discussion.

[00:11:27]>> purpose.

[00:11:28]>> Okay?

[00:11:28]>> That's it.

[00:11:29]>> For my own interest, okay?

[00:11:31]>> you didn't say your own interest, you said a purpose.

[00:11:34]>> Yeah, my own purpose.

[00:11:35]>> Yeah.

[00:11:35]>> Okay? So, when you look at it, my own purpose is my own business.

[00:11:39]>> Right.

[00:11:40]>> Okay? And if I don't wish to tell you what that business is, I do not have to tell you what that business is.

[00:11:46]>> Okay, but when you're videoing places like this, you can't like get all antsy when people come >> Okay, so then >> It's our job to come and ask you what >> then, so then, do you go up to everybody then that's filming Buckingham Palace, okay, and 10 Downing Street, okay, and stop them all? Okay? Do you go round to every single place, like even then when you look at the Olympic Park, okay, it's not far from here, even then when you look at that, okay, do you walk up to everyone that's got a camera?

[00:12:10]>> It's not my job to >> Okay? Do you walk up to everyone who you can see with a phone?

[00:12:14]>> police station, isn't it?

[00:12:15]>> Yeah, and this is just >> [laughter] >> and I'm just a normal member of the public with a phone.

[00:12:19]>> First thought is, well, why's he filming? And that's what's come naturally.

[00:12:23]>> Okay.

[00:12:24]>> The man explains that he audits public buildings and services, filming whatever is visible in public spaces, whether it is a police station, library, or another public service. He says his interest is in observing how public institutions operate and interact with people.

[00:12:39]>> So, and that's why I said to you that, instead of actually doing it exactly as you've done, okay, and you've been very polite and very professional, and I will say that, uh, and that's how a conversation should be fully conducted, exactly how it was with the other officers that I spoke to previously.

[00:12:56]>> Um So, what's your plan for the rest of the day? You going to carry >> I I have no idea yet. I have no idea. I just take it I just take it stage by stage.

[00:13:07]>> I only know because I've spoken to the officers that that stopped you earlier.

[00:13:12]If you continue to film, probably more officers will come and ask you what you're doing.

[00:13:16]>> And that's fine. That's fine, and I welcome any interaction.

[00:13:20]>> Well, you didn't really welcome mine, but never mind.

[00:13:22]>> Well, maybe you should look at the way that you actually approach first.

[00:13:26]>> Well, you said I was fine in the van.

[00:13:27]>> Okay, yeah, >> and it was when you got out and it was when you got out your tone changed.

[00:13:31]>> Right.

[00:13:31]>> Okay.

[00:13:32]>> was when I mentioned the toes in the van.

[00:13:33]>> Okay.

[00:13:33]>> It was a good 10 minutes into the conversation.

[00:13:35]>> No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. The The camera footage will actually show that.

[00:13:39]Also as well Well, you didn't have that on straight away. Okay?

[00:13:43]Okay.

[00:13:44]Uh and and just make sure, okay, >> The discussion moves toward trust [music] between police and the public.

[00:13:50]The filmer shares his view that there is a growing divide that needs repairing [music] and says respectful interactions are the best way to close that gap and improve understanding.

[00:13:58]>> That That does actually get kept because I will be requesting a copy of that.

[00:14:02]>> For policing purposes, it can get kept.

[00:14:04]So, I have to justify why I've kept it.

[00:14:06]>> No, it >> Yes, I do.

[00:14:07]>> Once I put in a request, okay, I have 30 days before it is actually deleted.

[00:14:13]>> Correct.

[00:14:14]>> Okay? And it's in that time Okay? And it's in that time that I will request a copy of it. And that's why I said, okay, please make sure >> For policing purposes, we can't save our body worn.

[00:14:24]>> Okay.

[00:14:25]>> It has to be for policing purposes.

[00:14:26]>> Okay.

[00:14:27]Yeah.

[00:14:28]And this is a policing purpose.

[00:14:31]>> What's the purpose?

[00:14:32]>> Okay? Because we're having an interaction, okay? And if you actually look even on the Met line website, okay?

[00:14:38]>> We don't record every interaction.

[00:14:39]>> I know you don't, but you are recording this interaction. Okay? And that's why I said I will request a copy of it.

[00:14:44]>> No problem. But, like I said, I can't save it unless All right.

[00:14:50]>> Yeah, no worries.

[00:14:52]>> Call up 101.

[00:14:54]>> Yes.

[00:14:55]>> Which I've got on here. And you can say, "I would like to make a complaint about about this."

[00:15:01]>> Yeah.

[00:15:01]>> Okay?

[00:15:02]Do you want to just Just find the >> Officers explain that security concerns are often linked to people gathering information around sensitive sites.

[00:15:11]>> [music] >> The filmer responds by arguing that much of what he records is already publicly visible online >> [music] >> and that his real focus is the interaction itself rather than security details.

[00:15:20]>> What are you auditing now by just filming me? listening to this?

[00:15:24]>> I'm not listening to >> No, me listening to them. I am.

[00:15:27]So, I'm asking like what's the purpose of me just doing Just queue up like I'm just going to do >> Because you're an officer on duty.

[00:15:38]Okay?

[00:15:39]Looking very unprofessional with your hands tucked in your actual body warmer.

[00:15:43]>> Yeah.

[00:15:44]>> Okay?

[00:15:44]>> We're not allowed to put our hands in our pockets.

[00:15:46]>> Yeah, I know. Well, that looks even worse. That looks even worse.

[00:15:50]>> We're allowed to do that.

[00:15:51]>> Okay? Yeah, I know, but it it looks a lot worse. Trust me, it looks a lot worse.

[00:15:54]>> Okay, that's fine, but we've got rules.

[00:15:56]I'm not allowed to put my hands in my pocket.

[00:15:58]>> Okay?

[00:15:59]>> We're a lot more accessible from here compared to down here.

[00:16:02]>> Yeah, well, there's a lot there's a lot of rules that are there. Okay? I to do with the way that you also identify as well. Okay? It's like where you first actually just sort of dipped your shoulder and then pointed at your actual number.

[00:16:16]>> If you listen to the to the thing, I say that's my number to someone and then you say >> Yeah. Yeah, but that's the whole thing.

[00:16:24]You did not say your number, okay? No, you did not. I actually asked for your number.

[00:16:28]>> The conversation becomes more reflective as both sides discuss communication [music] and public perception. The film or admits he welcomes respectful engagement, but says the moment terrorism accusations are introduced, >> [music] >> the interaction changes and becomes unnecessarily confrontational.