"I am... Clementine!" | Shruti Haasan | Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind | Classics with Sudhir

Añadido: 2026-05-19

[00:00:02]The world forgetting by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Each prayer accepted. Each wish resigned.

[00:00:10]>> Yeah. Saw this film. I was so young and I was like how amazing it would be to feel so much for somebody was fascinating. Wow. Hidana love. This is how you should feel for somebody.

[00:00:23]>> Did you get it at some point? highest form of intimacy according to me in my experience is if someone can see the child in you.

[00:00:30]>> Mhm.

[00:00:31]>> Oh my god, that twist is just heartbreaking. I think today we're in a more honest place in the world >> because there's so much fakery.

[00:00:41]>> I think Joel always feels >> that you slept with somebody that he's not good enough for her. Clementine has felt that for so long that she has made a facade that she's too good for this world. Yes, but there isn't the dining.

[00:00:57]>> Who puts it like that? I'm like, I really feel couples go to die in restaurants. So, they're like, >> I want to use a word that Clement uses to refer to herself. Concept.

[00:01:12]>> Yes.

[00:01:15]It almost feels like the film saying that about itself.

[00:01:17]>> 100%. concept. If he had the option to go to this company and erase that memory, you know what? It could well be the prelude to Eternal Sunshine.

[00:01:26]>> Oh yeah, that guy is the one who really deserves it. No, >> poor guy.

[00:01:49]what are you doing? And he's like, I'm sorry. I don't understand your question.

[00:01:53]And that is that's really that's it. That's the beauty.

[00:02:15]Hi Shi.

[00:02:16]>> Hi.

[00:02:17]>> Uh so much fun to be here when we are about to have this conversation.

[00:02:23]>> Um I reached out to you obviously and said uh >> uh very pleasantly surprised that you said yes.

[00:02:32]>> Yes.

[00:02:34]>> I'm not supposed to say yes.

[00:02:36]>> You are supposed to. So I'm happy you did. Yeah.

[00:02:41]Okay. Okay. Okay. Typically, but um offscreen we have done it a few times. Yes, >> the bad one especially because as much as good cinema is important, appreciating really bad cinema >> is my favorite pastime.

[00:03:12]>> Yeah.

[00:03:12]>> Yeah.

[00:03:13]>> So, >> we're talking about um shark octopus.

[00:03:16]No, ghost shark.

[00:03:18]>> Yeah. Sorry.

[00:03:22]Dramatically opposite. Opposite in terms of how effective it is, how powerful it is. Correct.

[00:03:31]Yes. Oscar best screenplay and apparently it was the only film that wasn't nominated for best picture along with best screenplay which is best picture.

[00:03:45]>> But that's Charlie Kaufman for you correct? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:50]Yes.

[00:03:51]>> How happy is the blameless vest lot?

[00:03:53]>> How happy is the blameless vest loss lot?

[00:03:58]>> Lot. Yeah. The world forgetting by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Each prayer accepted, each wish resigned.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah.

[00:04:09]Pope Alexander as she says.

[00:04:14]No, no, I love this poem anyway and I think it's brilliant that they use that as the title.

[00:04:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh Yeah. So we eternal sunshine of the spotless.

[00:04:25]>> Yes. It's my favorite film of all time.

[00:04:27]>> You picked the film. Yes.

[00:04:29]>> Yes. Why did you?

[00:04:30]>> Because it's my favorite film of all time. 2004 mathematics rumble week. How old would I have been? I was a teenager.

[00:04:39]>> And that time I used to be in a phase of having pink hair and green hair. So right off that young impressionable age or Clementine character because she immediately stands out to you as different from all the women I had seen or unapologetic almost aggressive level of individualism.

[00:05:05]>> I related a lot to that actually not just the hair.

[00:05:08]>> Absolute opposite of the manic pixie girl.

[00:05:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. the manic pixie trope.

[00:05:13]>> Yeah, I think this was trajectory. Correct. Broadly speaking, the character headrong.

[00:05:24]>> I mean, I feel like Rose from Titanic was also headstrong, but like >> this was contemporary.

[00:05:30]>> Yeah.

[00:05:32]>> Contemporary layers of complications, >> you know, and point of viewing.

[00:05:40]She's so appealing because she's like that you know. Yeah. So, and I listen I have my own Your is not my complex because I am I cannot be the source of entertainment complex >> and I think that is a very common trope in relationships or a timeless trope I think especially they're just so full of life then invariably they tend to attract people who seek that life Joel is very he's a loner in fact internal voice is so much more loud than anything he ever says yeah and he's never awkward >> very awkward yeah you sit with him it won't Easy for you to have a conversation with him.

[00:06:52]Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So terms both actually. Yeah.

[00:07:01]>> Actually visiting characters impactful to setting but that that's I'm a huge fan of Charlie Kaufman's writing.

[00:07:12]>> Yeah. And now which was so amazing is the timeline.

[00:07:20]So basically the concept this one line of this film was Michelle Gondry the director who I love from music music video directors are my favorite species of people.

[00:07:32]>> Okay.

[00:07:35]I'm like h but if you say music videos that to me is my favorite medium of storytelling because two favorite things are uh combined music and short >> uh you know it's like a short film 3 minutes to tell the story so Michelle music I mean I'm speaking of the west maybe even here >> advertising and music video into cinema usually it doesn't usually translate or it feels like filmmaker music video director because it does feel like bits and pieces of content the perfect this is the perfect person. Yes. So uh and da punk video all these artists I love he uses very it was especially at a time on the 2000s and late 90s yell CGI graphics um let's be tech forward they were all making and this guy was like focusing on stop motion and focusing on like you know shooting on film let's keep it warmractical So that he did even in his music videos.

[00:08:47]So I feel that uh that he had a friend, forget the name, I'm so sorry, who is like a creative director he works with who social art experiment where he just sent letters out to people saying for example it's you and me hey just to let you know has erased you from her memory >> but then the project fullled the idea was born and Charlie Kaufman did the whole story of shooting they were about to go when they started hearing about a script called Momento by Christopher Nolan.

[00:09:27]>> Yeah. And Charlie Kaufman was like because he's neurotic. Yeah.

[00:09:32]>> He was like in the parameanda they were like it's okay because there's this concept and I keep talking about it with my friends Michael Jackson also they spoke about it recently where there is a creative download that happens at a particular time >> to all artists. So it's not a lot of artists.

[00:09:52]So so he so Michelle Gandry was like it's okay it's just a download we'll do it narrative.

[00:10:00]But it is fractured, forgetful story. Momento and this are based on the idea of memory. Exactly. So it's so appealing for me to to see how >> and it's so fascinating because nobody who sees this film is going to think about the other at all.

[00:10:15]>> Exactly. Charlie Kaufman's paranoia was real. Yeah. So it's so interesting >> because he plays twins. Twins. They wanted Nicholas Cage.

[00:10:31]>> Yes, they wanted Nicholas Cage first, but he was too too much of a star at the time.

[00:10:37]>> Yes. And I think Jim Car's casting till date for me in Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine is what defines for me that era of already loving Jim Carry but devoting myself to him is these two films in >> Yeah. And it's so against how you generally genius Jim Carry he's really a genius in my opinion >> and and strangely Jim Carisms the only time I was like oh there's Jim Carry is like when he's like can you stop this I want to stop this and then they don't listen and he's like doing oh Jim Cariness to it you know then I was like oh yeah there's Jim Carrey but Joel was such Um the small small things he did were just brilliant and I don't know I feel oh I wish I was in the crew or I wish I was watching or I wish I was in this movie because they felt like a family making a really special project. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:43]You can see it.

[00:11:44]>> You can see this isn't just a moviearent memory.

[00:11:58]The whole thing we would think that but the thing is when there's that shot where he's talking in the apartment and Clementine when the bathroom Laora and we follow Clementine and Joel and then when you pan there's nowhere cuz a tiny um American bathroom there's nowhere but of course then you cut right back to where she's in the kitchen with a change of clothes you know so I was like oh that would have been so fun as an actor you know yeah like theater and post there is the the magic to human error and The I think life is all about the mistakes we're about to make which don't happen. And that's that's really how it feels when you see the film cuz you can see the energy in the actor's bodies.

[00:12:48]>> Yeah.

[00:12:48]>> Yeah.

[00:12:50]>> 2004.

[00:12:53]>> Yeah.

[00:12:53]>> And you got it, did you?

[00:12:54]>> No, I don't think I got got all the layers of it.

[00:13:00]>> Uh the film truly represents like my inner mind when it comes to relationships. And I don't mean just intimate relationships is I'm very like there are some people who are like ah I'm hopelessly romantic and then there are those who are I don't know pala like you know this always goes to you know which is weirdly what is beautiful about this film is it's both >> so I think that was a good influence for me to have like hope >> it's incredibly optimistic on on one level >> on one level >> yeah it's very it is going to go to no matter how you are writing when we come to the end of the film they've realized that we've done this memory erasia and they're meeting again like new fresh new strangers >> um at that point you realize Joel with all of his insecurity his introvert nature aid on the relationship the possible potential of doing it again told her okay it's Clementine who is this sabotager of relationships >> and that to me was really interesting in the writing she's like relationship and he's like okay you know so I think in life as well what you see is not what you get because a human being or a psyche the motivation that comes from the psyche is not what matches the exterior Yes. And it's strangely I mean it's very strange how because once you set into routine monotony about you know >> but no I did understand this film because a little later I started writing I used to write a lot of poetry for my music >> and I wrote a song and it was really triggered by this which was first it's your addiction and then it's your aversion >> and this is something I really understood from this film and from life and from people >> even my own even watching my own parents you That's the thin line that you traverse even in friendships.

[00:15:09]>> Oh friend 10 years and you're like you know yeah please. Yeah.

[00:15:17]I wonder the fact that for probably the first time at the start of the relationship now they know what it's going to become. Yeah. and the knowledge.

[00:15:32]Do you think that will potentially prevent Clementine from doing the things that she usually does together because she knows she's prone to doing them?

[00:15:40]>> So what's really interesting in the 2004 >> social media dating apps externalization of our internal world >> as we live in it today >> putting up a real saying my mind voice says you know >> that was non-existent. M >> but this film really applies today because first of all in the kala there's a lot of posturing >> social media posturing u people the line has become blurred between uh their sunlow kiss insta face and then how you and I were to meet for the first time is it that face is it the face in person everything has become like the dream sequence of Joel in a sense where you're hearing voices. That's the other thing of Joel. So Joel, he'll say Clementine, can you hear?

[00:16:35]There's someone in our apartment.

[00:16:38]>> Other social media voice today. There are people who will ask their friends about opinion on a relationship first.

[00:16:44]Or they'll post a picture and see how many likes people get compared to their ex. And I know it sounds silly, but that's >> that is the reality. It's fascinating you mentioned that because the nature of memory itself, it feels like uh it begins to move further away from reality in a sense of a relationship of understanding self awareness that is also getting tainted by this posturing.

[00:17:22]>> Yeah.

[00:17:22]>> That we're doing. I think today we're in a more honest place in the world >> because there's so much fakery >> that everybody knows. I know you know I know what I'm doing and um understanding exactly >> that is there.

[00:17:43]>> So a level of honesty has entered the conversation because of the falsity in Solah.

[00:17:48]>> Yeah.

[00:17:49]Um so clearly and the thing is it happens on the screen in the film but you cannot erase what is meant to be.

[00:18:03]>> Yeah.

[00:18:03]>> And the meant to be certain things are meant to be in your life >> whether you end up with them or not whether you end up keeping the job or not. I believe very much in that no experience is wasted on me theory.

[00:18:25]>> All of these experience are adding up to the the final coalation of who I will be as a personal in the beginning of the film Joel's like should I go back to Naomi?

[00:18:37]>> Yeah. Joel wouldn't do that with the awareness of this relationship in the middle because this relationship would have taught him that because she does not fulfill what I need >> and that is the learning stepping stone you know to understanding oneself all these tragedies and these losses.

[00:18:58]>> So if you had this lacon advice there's no way you're using it.

[00:19:00]>> No I I would in fact I very much depend on my understanding of especially painful moments in my life.

[00:19:06]>> Yeah.

[00:19:07]>> Yeah. I've never felt the need to erase it >> and and nothing would be so painful that you would want to remove it.

[00:19:13]>> No, there are. But no, >> no, >> no. The only thing I contemplatively is what are my actions?

[00:19:26]He says when you broke into the house, you just said it with so much disdain.

[00:19:36]fine then leave >> those things he's realizing he can't control what the other person says he has to control his reaction that's the only regret I have writing we all forget Clementine is not there in those memories >> she's there as a picture projection the narrative and the subconscious thought is still Joel >> it's Joel while reconciling the relationship. That's where the brilliance of writing is.

[00:20:09]>> And even at the end when she's reminding him, come to see me now, that's pretty much him telling himself through her.

[00:20:18]>> Exactly. And that's what this film shows you is that the relationship is a tool for you to learn what you want to tell yourself.

[00:20:28]>> You know, because all we know is it's happened.

[00:20:35]That's it.

[00:20:36]>> We don't know Clementine or break down every poacher and the the writing and the direction and performance of Kate Winsel shows us from the beginning that she has both sides that she has the side of yeah what you know my hair is this colored you know they have these colors this that like from the right getgo and oh okay you know there are women like that I am one of those hyper sensitive women. So I was all I think for me Clementine was a maybe I shouldn't be so much of a Clementine you know. So there are two favorite moments in the film.

[00:21:14]One of them is the childhood where you felt Jim Carry came out >> where they make him kill the bird >> and then she goes in that outfit that's there from the photograph which they show you and she says no come don't talk to them anymore.

[00:21:30]Uh the reason selectar for his life chosen her is because she has the authority emotional authority to pull him out of the dark spaces. All of us make instinctive choices good ones and bad ones even bad choices.

[00:21:52]There is the lesson of our psychology.

[00:21:59]So it does take Clementine to identify him first of all relationship.

[00:22:10]Yes.

[00:22:14]Correct. He is the thing. There's the discomfort because for her to enter his bubble she needs to burst it. Yes. You know the irony of the whole story all of us carry things from our childhood.

[00:22:33]>> Yes.

[00:22:33]>> All of us happy unhappy socioeconomic strata everybody comes with the these stories of our childhood that define our story.

[00:22:46]The most highest form of intimacy according to me in my experience is if someone can see the child in you.

[00:22:53]>> Mhm. That is the highest form of if they can see the scar that 8-year-old had then there is some sort of intimacy that is very uncomfortable as well in the point of view one she enters Joel's childhood in the memory >> for for because Clementine as a character in the writing in the dialogue forward the most favorite sequences under the blanket.

[00:23:25]She'll say, "I used to have an ugly doll and I called her Clementine." And he says, "No, you're so beautiful." She says that childhood trauma. A lot of women have this this feeling of not belonging. Boys have it in a different way. Girls have it in a different way.

[00:23:40]And these two children have met the memorable image of the crack. Unforgettable image, right?

[00:23:50]Um and obviously on the >> uh the idea that they are on fragile ground in a in a sense >> um and and maybe that's the nature of most relationships in the first place.

[00:24:02]>> Hila also there's this whole theory throughout the film of her changing hair color >> till what representing on the four seasons. Yes. spring, summer, winter and autumn and also so you can identify different periods with what her hair color is.

[00:24:24]>> Yes. Which is such a great cinematic device.

[00:24:35]So I want to go to the lake with a new guy because memory memory instinctively recreate because we all have certain bends of minds but who you go with is what makes that experience.

[00:25:05]And again coming back to social media um I'm afraid >> his character is a extension of what all we're seeing in dating apps what we're seeing in social media I've seen it with my friends I've never been on dating apps but they'll scroll back to the person's Insta >> they'll be like oh they also like fishing >> so now the next conversation.

[00:25:41]>> So I love that she goes then he's manip like he's manipied all the things that she would like but they will only matter from the right mouth.

[00:25:49]>> Yes. Yes. And he says exactly those lines.

[00:25:51]>> Yeah.

[00:25:52]>> And she feels nothing. In fact she feels emptyer.

[00:25:54]>> Yeah.

[00:25:59]Yeah. And how does he know how to call her tangerine? It's so relevant to how a man will feel or a woman will feel when your partner also moves on.

[00:26:13]>> Yes.

[00:26:14]>> You know, somebody calls you baby and then they call someone else baby. It's the same impact but done in this sort of way.

[00:26:24]Elijah Wood is the the norm today.

[00:26:31]It might just seem like, oh, Clementine's being a bit brutal towards him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[00:26:36]>> But on the instinctive quality to go back to >> Yeah. try hard. He's a try hard as they say.

[00:26:49]I didn't find it even when I saw it back in the day.

[00:26:53]Uh I didn't find it difficult to follow you. So, first of all, the hair color.

[00:26:58]Second of all, there's a difference in treatment to sections.

[00:27:02]>> Uh, even the the dream sequence has all of those spotlight lighting >> and manic cuts.

[00:27:09]>> Yeah. psychotic levels of jump cuts.

[00:27:11]Yes. And uh a lot of um practical effects like the house changing and the people disapping into what it is today >> with the childhood memory as well as people fading away in the station, memories just deleting. So when you go back to now, it's very stationary and stable. And when they're erasing Joel's memory, >> because Joel is in stand still, >> they create that chaos with Mark Ruffalo and Kirsten Dancing about him and all that, right?

[00:27:53]>> And you know, he's lying there erasing the most painful love and memory of his life. and the others are just like >> they're creating a new one for themselves.

[00:28:08]>> But that is life.

[00:28:09]>> And today social media really shows you that your problems are your problems.

[00:28:14]>> Beyond a point people will move on.

[00:28:17]>> So will you but you know there the sadness of the poance of that impactful typical straightward.

[00:28:29]>> What did you find um what did you find difficult to follow? I did not but it's a general or consensus because you invariably with respect to films like this and momento you have a lot of conversation about oh what was happening here what did they mean by this did we get it right did we understand it right so it does feel like everyone's coming from a place of so here's the thing all of Charlie Kaufman's films being John Malovich adaptation whatever you name it he always starts with the absurd.

[00:29:04]>> Yeah.

[00:29:05]>> Then you have Michelle Gondry who's also an absurdist.

[00:29:11]But the core that they both have which is on every script even when I read something is it's so human.

[00:29:19]>> Yes. It's so driven by a very simple core emotion that anybody on a very core level and use whether it's the camera techniques, editing techniques or the practical effects that they've applied. None of it is just for >> it is absolutely essential to the narrative. M so as a viewer you don't feel taken away you feel more invested in the plot >> scenes and moments fractured absurd it's also giving you a deeper peak into their emotions in a way that a conventional scene may psychologist to analyze when they go back into the childhood.

[00:30:23]She says, "Joel, hide me somewhere where they can't find >> find me."

[00:30:27]>> Yeah. Find us.

[00:30:28]>> Put me in a This is my memory.

[00:30:30]>> Put me in a memory that doesn't belong to me. in childhood poem was Kate Winsley a cigarette put it on the glass she's like I love these clothes I love who I am and he's like yeah you are this other person >> she looks so gorgeous >> she looks gorge truly you know and >> it's so exciting because we also as human beings when we get transplanted into somebody else's story and memory it's new to us but it's exciting oh bloody hellha okay nice >> it's it's it's new to us But it's also exciting for us to be in somebody else's perspective.

[00:31:07]I feel >> Yeah. Yeah. And and so much tragedy also in the film relationship.

[00:31:21]Oh my god, that twist is just heartbreaking. Right. Yeah.

[00:31:31]because she's like, "Oh, doctor, he's what doctor is doing is so what Harvard is doing is so great. What is so great in the moment then instantly so it almost feels like are we truly doomed to following these cycles over and over again?" So if you are a believer in the fufu spiritual stuff, >> yes, you could say that there are karmic lessons that you must learn.

[00:32:08]But if you look at it psychologically, >> yes, >> scientifically, the permutation combination of personality traits that leads you to make choices will always repeat the pattern until you break it.

[00:32:20]>> It's like a mathematical equation. It will balance itself out in that way.

[00:32:25]other in the in the part clear of Joel's point of view is more uh practical.

[00:32:32]Clementine's is more esoteric.

[00:32:35]>> But they both meet with the same decision when they finally end up back on that same train because the permutation combination of what has led them to be those people will invariably lead you to make this choice.

[00:32:48]And you would think heavy I want to use a word that Clement uses to refer to herself. Concept.

[00:32:55]>> Yes.

[00:32:56]>> Concept.

[00:32:57]It almost feels like the film saying that about itself.

[00:33:00]>> 100%.

[00:33:03]>> Yes. Yes. This is >> and what's beautiful in the film which I really loved is um the cinematography.

[00:33:12]>> I forget her full name. Helena. Um, it completely captures a warmth that's so like film >> like almost like a disposable camera. I don't know with all these effects with the warmth of film with that kind of feeling but also extremely beautiful frames like in this in this dark the lake Charles scene when the it's cold it's frozen but it's so visually beautiful >> uh because even the pain has these beautiful all the memories are beautiful even the painful memories are beautiful if you go in the in the times where they have to save the relationship. The spotlighting on the beach is so beautiful cinematography wise, but in the beginning of the film, it's actually a sunny day >> in Montalk. Do you know what I mean?

[00:34:04]>> Yeah.

[00:34:05]>> Where everything is over, it's sunny and bright. So I feel throughout the film, they're juaposing. Joel or a drawings.

[00:34:12]Joel or a his drawings have no color except Clementine >> you know Joel or a sketchbook it has only reds in it >> which is again if you look at color psychology rage and suppressed rage but when Clementine enters his life she is like that box of crayons >> aband color pencil box mad she's just coming in like that into his life >> so using her as the color metaphor is also beautiful >> because you're talking foreign which came out 20 years before this film did strangely strangely yes I was talking to someone and I felt like if he had the option to go to this company and erase that memory. You know what? It could well be the prelude to Eternal Sunshine.

[00:35:17]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:35:19]>> That guy's the one who really deserves it.

[00:35:22]>> No.

[00:35:22]>> Poor guy. Oh, papa. In that last sequence, it's just so sad.

[00:35:27]>> Yeah. He He's allowed to go erase it.

[00:35:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it feels like Oh, how interesting that Yes. Yeah. They seem to deal with certain similar themes here and there >> loss and misunderstanding and I think the most painful thingfulness.

[00:35:48]>> Yeah. So this film when I was when I saw this film I was so young and I was like how amazing it would be to feel so much for somebody was fascinating to me.

[00:35:59]>> Yeah.

[00:36:00]>> Because I was very young when I saw this.

[00:36:02]>> Yeah.

[00:36:02]>> So I said love this is how you should feel for somebody.

[00:36:06]>> Did you get it at some point? Yes. Uh and the sad thing is you don't need lacuna. You don't need to work so hard to erase. People erase themselves while they're still alive.

[00:36:18]>> That to me has been the most u tragic thing to see in life.

[00:36:23]>> You know, it could be school friends, it could be a lover, it could be someone you're like, >> "Oh, wow. That that version of the person I know is dead."

[00:36:30]>> Yeah. So if you're getting a letter and just letting you know, we discover that in life all the time, right?

[00:36:40]>> We discover that oh that person. Oh, I've moved on from I'm not thinking about that person anymore.

[00:36:44]>> It's not even I'm not thinking.

[00:36:46]Sometimes you see people uh they've changed so much.

[00:36:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[00:36:51]>> So it's like >> so whatever version you you were connected to doesn't exist.

[00:36:56]learning.

[00:36:58]You want to glorify and romanticize this idea of heartbreak.

[00:37:03]>> The biggest heartbreak is the the inevitable change within ourselves and the people we love.

[00:37:09]>> And inevitable change is the biggest heartbreak in life. The people you love growing old, >> the you know the people you love for certain reasons changing those very reasons. And I think for me, eternal sunshine was a precursor to understanding that thought more than anything.

[00:37:28]>> Each time Clementine and Joel should start here, end there, forget about the relationship, start over again because you keep circling back to the best phase of your relationship.

[00:37:41]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:42]>> And then it gets ruined. You forget and you're able to start again which >> with the information >> with >> Yeah. That would be very complicated.

[00:37:50]I think uh an honest communication means you relay first information which is yeah at the end of the screen play she's like I am I get bored I get this he's like I am boring you know he's basically >> it is going to be the same go >> and yet he might think that yeah he does think almost we can talk about it >> I think Joel always feels >> that you slept with somebody that he's not good enough for her yeah undertone >> yes >> the undertone in the entire film is Joel feels I'm not good enough for her >> Clementine has felt that for so long that she has made a facade that she's too good for this world >> yes >> but There isn't. They're both operating from the same fear, just different forms of application screens, which I really really loved.

[00:39:02]>> For me, one of the most vulnerable moments when they're playing that audio recording she'll sleep with so many people for probably, you know, helpless almost like that.

[00:39:20]>> And then even more beautiful is his reaction to that.

[00:39:24]>> Yes, >> I I know.

[00:39:26]>> Yeah. Actually, you don't know.

[00:39:29]>> You never know. That's the beauty. And I think in the film uh because I was so obsessed, you know, the two films I sat and watched a lot of the making, how do they make it was this and another film called science.

[00:39:41]>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Shaman.

[00:39:42]>> Yeah. Manojite. Shamalan's film. I was just obsessed with what were the thoughts behind choosing these things and I I remember when they shot the sequence where they go into the childhood and they have that habit of the smothering with the pillow >> and then the mom comes and she's like oh hi mom I know she's not dead we're just playing actually they had Jim Carrey and Kate's lit right off camera actually narrating it to the children's performance.

[00:40:08]>> Oh I see. Okay.

[00:40:09]>> Yeah. So they were doing all these really student film project like things.

[00:40:15]So even the the memory once the memor is about to get erased and you know they're doing the thing and Mary that's Kirsten Dun's characters reading out the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind um you know the the small pros poem >> you cut to them in the carnival >> with an elephant >> that was on the spot that was never written visually into the script so beautifully done it was never written visually into the script M >> they were shooting in the station and somebody told the director that the the circus carnival is passing through on the main thing. They all got in the vans went threw them there and shot it with paparazzi and there are frames where you can see other people are not acting.

[00:41:00]They're like Jim Carry is here you know but that's the beauty with film making.

[00:41:05]I think so many stunning things happen that are out of plan but it's extremely important to plan the not planned >> you know yes >> it was beautifully done >> sometimes it also it feels like do you truly love someone for who they are or do you love them for who you think they are >> no who you want them to be >> for you >> for you >> yeah it's always a combination that's the truth of it and If it wasn't, it wouldn't we wouldn't be procreating so much.

[00:41:40]>> You know, I think it has to be the balance of it's like an artist creating a work of art. So much of it is their work, their perception and what they want to project. But the art truly has value and it's received from the the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? So it is then their interpretation of it and love is very much like art in that sense >> because you you did mention social media a few times.

[00:42:05]>> Yes.

[00:42:07]>> We are making it even more difficult for people to understand who you are >> because you're also projecting all these images of yourself as you as you hope you >> but that's actually brought in honesty.

[00:42:17]>> Yeah.

[00:42:17]>> It's it's brought in honesty is what I'm feeling.

[00:42:22]What a social media wave we are under. Yeah. Perception creating somebody may find them interesting.

[00:42:39]Posturing what is the truth will eventually in a sense many people do this in the beginning of relationships as well.

[00:42:52]>> We all do it. We don't mean to. You know, I love to say, "Hey, I am who I am." Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

[00:43:00]You know, we all eventually it's closer.

[00:43:04]It's better to stick to the bone.

[00:43:06]>> Yeah.

[00:43:06]>> Uh because the more you move away from it, the harder it gets to come back to it.

[00:43:10]>> Yeah. To be accepted for >> and the truth is in Eternal Sunshine from the very first piece of writing where he's like his monologue is like I can't even look at a woman what you know I can't on the beach. She's like, "I can't even look at a woman and I I wish I could find someone for me, but I can't even look at a woman in the face." And we we later on realized you not only did you look her in the face, you had a whole life with her.

[00:43:37]>> Yeah.

[00:43:38]>> That's another messaging of who he is.

[00:43:41]>> Strange that first impression of her should come from uh looking at her back.

[00:43:46]>> Yeah. See, >> been so drawn to somebody's back, you know. That's the beauty of it. And the the the truth is these two characters are extremely in film there's a very little posturing from their end. They are who they are.

[00:44:00]>> Yeah.

[00:44:01]>> She's like I'm like this. I'm not going to fix you. I know you're boring. And he's like yeah I'm boring. You're fascinating. And as the relationship unravels in the Asia is when he's like she said I had you pegged, didn't I? He he says you had the whole world the whole universe pegged.

[00:44:18]>> But that's what irritates him about her.

[00:44:20]There's so much about what she says is stuff he's it's just it's pacing, you know, and you see what's really fantastic is when you cut back to Kate Winslett with Elijah Wood, she's very frenetic and frantic and her body language, but the shots and the the camera movement, it really slows down >> because that that reality that she's in, she's the frenetic on whereas for Joel's erasia it's he's more he's frenetic the memories are frenetic so I love this juosition that they've done with >> narrative writing camera work direction everything consistently through the film when you now go back and watch it from this perspective it's a different film who whose affection for her seems so >> to Mary or Marupakam, the the owner of this company or the wife, how lonely she is.

[00:45:24]>> She is.

[00:45:25]>> Yeah.

[00:45:25]>> And the the line of the dialogue of the wife was incredible. Where she pulls up and she's like, "Oh, the poor thing.

[00:45:31]Tell her."

[00:45:33]>> And she's and she says, "Tell me what?"

[00:45:35]And then she just says, "No, I didn't.

[00:45:37]I'm just a stupid girl with a stupid crush, and I just wanted to have him."

[00:45:41]And she said, "You already had him."

[00:45:43]>> Yeah.

[00:45:43]>> And that's just so painful for everybody involved. And when you revisit it, you're also catching these >> morality disappears in that moment.

[00:45:52]>> Yeah.

[00:45:52]>> You know, >> the immoral one becomes truly just the not the actor. The immorality is erasing who gave you >> what morality and love.

[00:46:04]>> Yeah.

[00:46:04]>> Yeah.

[00:46:05]>> The the morality is not about the man who had the affair. It's not about the young intern trope. It's not about the wife who's angry. It's the immorality is in erasing that.

[00:46:16]>> Yeah. That is the most immoral thing in this whole film is >> how do you play God and erase things.

[00:46:22]>> Yeah.

[00:46:23]>> You know, >> and you thought it would work out for you, did you?

[00:46:27]>> Yeah. That's beautiful. And the music as well. I love in the film >> and Roma carefully done also. very carefully and intelligently done and also the quirky uh almost pantomime play like circus music >> in the moments where >> because it is starting to become a tragic comedy >> you know when these things are falling apart and they're they're using the music to do that and then finally to end with that just that piano that warm analog sound warm piano feeling >> and moments some conversations where there is no music at >> there. There isn't.

[00:47:05]>> Yeah.

[00:47:05]>> Yeah. And it's weird cuz everyone I remember when I first watched it, she calls Joel home for a drink the first time and they're playing Bollywood music in the back. It's old Mohammad Rafi songs and I was like because that time you know we were so excited like I remember watching another movie and Chay Chaya was in it and I was like guys that's from my country that's so yeah I remember that.

[00:47:32]I mean obviously there is meaning to those songs don't forget me find me everything there's a lot of meaning in all of this and there is what's really fascinating in this is >> it's a mix of cultures as well like it's an American writer a British actress a French filmmaker and how muchever we say we are not >> um we're all homogenized now >> in in storytelling especially there is beautiful stain of culture that is very much what makes us who we are and you can see that in narratives as well >> in this film. I think it's amazing that Charlie Kaufman and a Michelle Gondry got together to make this cuz it's culturally so opposing as well their approaches whereas they've both the human human complexity of it in the writing >> without spelling it out without spelling anything out. Yes.

[00:48:33]>> The film isn't necessarily underlining any of this.

[00:48:36]>> Yeah.

[00:48:37]>> And there was this beautiful thing. I was watching the interview of Elena the DP and she was saying so this director seems really manic like Jim Carry and him have had a fight when shooting DP and the director have had a fight but it's all like lovey fights. Do you know what I mean? like you know correct.

[00:49:00]>> So he said there were shots where he she was doing the handheld work herself and it would be too smooth. So he would like shove her from behind so that there's a jerk and it feels real. And I love all of this cuz even in um what is this uh >> Paul Thomas Anderson's latest film?

[00:49:17]Yeah.

[00:49:17]>> One battle.

[00:49:18]>> Yeah. one battle after the other for the car shot. They rigged the camera and you know the very famous >> Yes.

[00:49:25]>> Uh curvy road shot and then he was just like it's looking too perfect. It's starting to look like you know that Terminator CGI types road shots and he was like it's looking too it's looking too clean. So they actually unscrewed the bolts on the on the rig so that the car's vibration is there and that's why you feel you're in the car and that's what Michelle Gondry was doing with it.

[00:49:47]And then it makes you think in a time where you have AI and everything is like and everything is a clean transition and everything is these new cameras and robotic arms these things actually is the stuff that makes you feel very much invested.

[00:50:01]>> I think you should mention one battle because even this film I thought it made me feel slightly queasy.

[00:50:07]>> Yeah.

[00:50:08]>> When they get too close to characters and they're constantly shaking things about >> Yes. Yes. And you're supposed to feel that. And the the the there's imperfection in the characters. There's imperfection in the situation. There's imperfection in the storytelling.

[00:50:24]>> There's imperfection in the edit. You know, it's supposed to be imperfection in memories.

[00:50:29]>> Imperfect memories. So why would the visual be smooth? Do you know what I mean? It cannot be. And even in terms of what I love is uh you know when we look at continuity in films >> they're purposely breaking spatial continuity. They're anyway breaking because of jumping from memories but they're also they're very meticulously breaking lighting continuity and they're jarring you between it so much and you're going back to the same memories without continuity.

[00:51:01]No, I think because they would have had in the set in okay they can spotlight light it but if you look carefully they've made minor minor changes to the setting to the layout of the place so that recollections may vary.

[00:51:20]Joel keeps going back to that apartment in the erasia. Joel also goes back to the office on the memory erasing office.

[00:51:28]He visits three times back.

[00:51:32]>> Then again, you go back where the doctor is spot lit and then there's that lady with the weird prosthetic face.

[00:51:40]>> But the office is not exactly the same.

[00:51:42]They've changed the blinds. They So, they've actually gone out of their way to mess the continuity on location. So, I found that really fascinating.

[00:51:54]They're having to execute them in these visuals as well. Yeah, >> it was fantastic. Yeah.

[00:52:00]>> So, I think uh people what I love most about this film is you walk away from it remembering it for years as a as a conversation that you had you know that was meaningful like when I think of this film >> I think of that kind of a mood of ah that was a good conversation with a good person kind of feeling like you know that's what this film makes me feel >> but technically it's really brilliant.

[00:52:26]>> Yeah. you know technically in the writing in the execution in the >> it's such a compliment to the technical work right >> yes >> what else is it aimed at >> yes to give you the feeling and this film set the tone for so many films to come after >> like Ruby Sparks and >> you know her if you her came out so much later but the tone treatment he's Joel >> Mhm. He's basically Joel. When I saw her, I was like, why can't Phoenix is Joel? Her is >> Yeah.

[00:53:00]>> Her is Clementine.

[00:53:01]>> You know, for me, it was Eternal Sunshine all over again. Now readapted to with AI with artificial intelligence.

[00:53:08]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:14]It makes you shed your own vulnerabilities in a way.

[00:53:18]>> Yeah. It holds a mirror up to you without being jarring. It's more like a sweetheart.

[00:53:28]All of us are messed up. That's there's there's a actually that's so important.

[00:53:33]You said that in the core thread the thread that's the through line is empathy.

[00:53:40]>> There's a lot of compassion and empathy for love and lovers and their failures.

[00:53:51]She'll be like, "Yeah, yeah."

[00:54:01]>> If if that's not love, what is to be able to recognize somebody being happy >> across the street being happy.

[00:54:07]>> And you're attracted to them, but they're attracted to someone else and they're happy.

[00:54:10]>> Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. And I just love that I was with him, you know.

[00:54:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. And the difference is he's not interested in manipulating her.

[00:54:24]>> Yeah.

[00:54:24]>> Unlike Elijah.

[00:54:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. He's just like, "Okay, I want this person."

[00:54:31]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:38]>> That line.

[00:54:40]>> Who puts it like that?

[00:54:41]>> It is so brilliant. Only Charlie Kaufman. Are we the dining? And I'm like, oh, I really feel couples go to die in restaurants.

[00:54:54]If you want to see a funeral for a relationship, just go for a >> I think relationship at one point we've seen the scene. Look at us. How into each other we are, how alive we are, how capable of love >> peanuts into your face. Thank you.

[00:55:16]>> They're so energetic and look at them.

[00:55:18]>> The dining is where everybody ends up.

[00:55:22]Yeah.

[00:55:23]>> It's fascinating that line.

[00:55:25]>> Yeah. And adults are this mess of sadness and phobias.

[00:55:30]>> Yeah.

[00:55:31]>> So many great lines.

[00:55:32]>> Yeah. very very insightful and unflinchingly looking at uh at darkness in a sense.

[00:55:39]>> It's not again it's not writing that is posturing and trying to be let me philosophize this feeling. It's just that that's what those characters would feel.

[00:55:48]>> Yeah.

[00:55:49]>> So true to them.

[00:55:56]Yeah.

[00:55:58]>> What do people lose you think if they forget? Huh? Sorry.

[00:56:03]>> What do people lose? You think um if they do for let go of their pain in the le yeah the uh whichever way you look at it psychologically or spiritually pain is the greatest teacher. So even joy experiencing joy has a lesson.

[00:56:26]Experiencing pain has a lesson.

[00:56:33]then are they truly learning lessons?

[00:56:36]How do you see that?

[00:56:37]>> I don't think next time that's bad. Yeah, >> that is marriage.

[00:56:51]Sorry guys, just kidding. Um but hopefully not. I mean I think in the narrative that is the first run around you know yeah so >> it's also asking okay now you know how that was what even in my inmail music video it was actually inspired by this >> I see >> by eternal sunshine of but I used it as just a movie >> that they went to see a movie and the movie was their relationship >> and now you know how it gets would you still do it >> yeah would Yeah.

[00:57:26]>> Yeah. And then that's the open end even with Joel and uh Clementine in the end is they laugh >> because the older you get it stops being fear and it just becomes >> you accept.

[00:57:40]>> Yeah. Okay. life is like this. And I think actually solo which is beautiful even in the in the film is in that last moment.

[00:57:56]There's no background music. There's no fancy cinematography. It's just a hallway >> and not even a particularly attractive hallway. a very unattractive dim badly lit >> you know not even beautiful naturally cramped blue light hallway >> in which they laugh and decide okay >> and what happens with life and time is what they've captured so beautifully in that one shot is >> and the background music disappears the beauty of the frame and your memory disappears >> and it becomes that cold hallway now you make it fun or not is the last shot which is because this is a far cry from that memorable ice image.

[00:58:38]>> Yeah. Where the beach perfect love in fact everything is beautiful except Joel's apartment.

[00:58:49]>> Clementine's apartment although it's so cramped and small you feeling they create through set design as well.

[00:59:00]>> So everything is pretty. How cool then that should they should pick Joel's apartment to end this film with.

[00:59:06]>> Exactly.

[00:59:06]>> Yeah.

[00:59:07]>> And it's Joel who takes the initiative.

[00:59:13]>> Because suddenly Clementine grows up >> throughout the film, Clementine is refusing to grow up. But that breakdown she has where she's like, I don't know why I'm feeling so sad. And that other guy is like, come on, let's go. And you're like, oh god, don't mess with her.

[00:59:30]When she comes back and she hears it and he's like, "Get out of my car. You're messing with me." Then she's like, "No, no, no. I need to go back and address it." In that car drive back, Clementine is grown up.

[00:59:42]>> She's suddenly shed.

[00:59:45]>> You mentioned, do you have any empathy for Elijah Wood's character?

[00:59:49]>> I do. You do?

[00:59:51]>> You know why? Because it's so >> Yeah. They don't make you hate him.

[00:59:56]That's the brilliance in the writing is who is the villain of this piece.

[01:00:08]Of course, devious.

[01:00:11]Yes, for sure.

[01:00:13]Never, you know, like, and it's very devious >> and very unoriginal because you're borrowing somebody else's lines.

[01:00:20]>> Yeah.

[01:00:23]conversation with somebody you want the natural rhythm and progression sometimes I look back I wish I knew then what I know now but that that's not possible you know and that will you cannot fast track things so he's trying to fast track it >> and I have empathy for him because Yes.

[01:01:02]Are they Joel?

[01:01:10]What are you doing? And he's like, I'm sorry. I don't understand your question.

[01:01:13]And that is that's it. That's the deal.

[01:01:23]Yeah.

[01:01:24]>> Yeah.

[01:01:24]>> And that's such a throwback to um love stories where two people are meant to be.

[01:01:34]>> And throughout it's not up to others to erase the memory to have an opinion.

[01:01:44]can't you hear him? She's like no actually through the relationship also he'll say one time so library she calls it library >> she doesn't care what are other people feeling the relationship what does society think what do people think what do the beginning of the movie say Valentine's Day Clementine super you have a clementine Okay, I need to go sleep early cuz I need to erase that superb Clementine.

[01:02:20]But in Jim Car's performance, you'll see for a fleeting second that it does matter that the neighbor thinks she's amazing.

[01:02:27]>> Yes.

[01:02:28]>> Whereas to Clementine, it never matters what anybody thinks.

[01:02:32]>> And probably one of the more beautiful lessons in this film is especially for someone like Joel, right?

[01:02:42]Because Yeah. And it's and he's like even in public she screams she's out please. And the thing is for him she is a big task on a daily basis.

[01:02:56]>> Yes. Yes.

[01:02:57]>> On a daily basis loving her is difficult for him. That's what you take.

[01:03:02]>> Such explosive energy around you as well. Right. For him it's so disruptive.

[01:03:06]>> Yeah.

[01:03:06]>> As well.

[01:03:07]>> I'm on the other side of the spectrum.

[01:03:09]So you know >> what do you mean? I feel like I would be the more chaotic energy even the way I am as a person. So I always wonder beat my friends. I have obviously we all attract opposites. So I have friends who are much more introverted, >> much calmer, >> and I'm like this is all a balance. It's fine, but would this friend be able to live with me every day, you know? And so I think what's fascinating is Joel, he's come out of his bubble.

[01:03:43]I mean it's it's an incredible transformation that at the end he's chasing her and saying >> that's that's the so that's what I feel at by the end of the film they both grow up in front of her eyes.

[01:03:55]>> Yeah.

[01:03:55]>> You know. Yeah.

[01:03:56]>> Uh her growth is to say okay maybe I don't just spontaneously rush into and make it make it happen. Yes.

[01:04:04]>> You know and he's like okay maybe I don't run away this time.

[01:04:08]>> I run towards it.

[01:04:10]>> Yes. and accept my flaws and fix it. So, in that car ride where they separate, by the time they come back, they've grown up, you know.

[01:04:19]>> How cool. How cool. I don't think we'll find a more poignant way to end this conversation.

[01:04:24]>> Yes.

[01:04:24]>> Um, such fun.

[01:04:25]>> Same.

[01:04:26]>> Which is where I began this conversation.

[01:04:28]>> So, it is true.

[01:04:29]>> Now, go watch Ghost Shark.

[01:04:34]>> We must discuss Ghost Shark.

[01:04:36]>> Actually, you know what? That's an idea.

[01:04:38]Pick a horrible film. Let's pick the worst film. Go Shark is the worst. Yes, we'll talk about their uh >> techniques of how they made it so horrible.

[01:04:49]>> Superb.

[01:04:50]>> But uh thank you so much for this. This was great.

[01:04:53]>> Thank you. Thank you.

[01:04:53]>> Okay. Super.

[01:04:54]>> Okay. And YouTube correct?

[01:04:58]>> Yes.

[01:04:58]>> Yes. So YouTube is available for uh rent.

[01:05:02]>> Yes. It's available for 170 rupees on YouTube.

[01:05:05]>> Um best spending ever. No better way to spend 170 bucks.

[01:05:10]>> Yes. Yes.

[01:05:12]>> Superb.

[01:05:12]>> Thank you.

[01:05:13]>> Great. Thank you.

[01:05:14]>> Bye.