A Deep-Dive About Basketball, Science, and the Universe with Neil deGrasse Tyson

[00:00:00]Why?

[00:00:02]And who started this? Was it Marv Albert to say a shot from way outside is from downtown? No, that's from the suburbs, >> I guess. Yeah, the game's probably being PLAYED DOWNTOWN.

[00:00:14]>> THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

[00:00:15]>> Downtown is the basket. That's where everybody is. If you're way out there, that's the suburbs. So, they should say the >> country shooting from the country.

[00:00:23]>> This is a shot from the BBS.

[00:00:36]Welcome back to the old man of the three. I'm your host Cam Johnson joined by co-host Tommy Alter. Tommy, today we have a super super super special guest, the smartest guy in the room, Mr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil, how you doing?

[00:00:47]>> Well, thank you. Thank you. I here's a bit of advice.

[00:00:51]>> Yeah, let's hear.

[00:00:51]>> If you ever find yourself to be the smartest person in the room, change rooms. You need to find a new room.

[00:00:59]>> Well, change room so that you can keep learning. See?

[00:01:01]>> Okay. So, this is okay for now. You don't need to >> What's the last time you've been in a room where you felt intimidated?

[00:01:08]>> No, I don't. Intimidation is that's your ego is playing a role if you're ever going to be intimidated. For me, if I'm around people who know more than I do and in anything, I'm all questions.

[00:01:22]Yeah.

[00:01:22]>> I want to ascend to their level. It's not a matter of intimidating. If they know more about my expertise than I do, I want to learn more. Yeah.

[00:01:31]>> So, intimidation is is is a failure of your ego, not a statement of your state of mind.

[00:01:38]>> Very nice. We did a nice conversation.

[00:01:41]What is that now? Two and a half years ago. Yes.

[00:01:44]>> Was it that long ago? No. Yeah. You came to my office.

[00:01:47]>> Yeah. In your office. A great talk. um kind of spurred the idea for this one because I can't get enough of this stuff. Your academic and scientific disciplines.

[00:01:59]>> Every now and then there's a star athlete with a geek underbelly.

[00:02:04]And that's one of >> you found your belly. A >> soft geek underbelly.

[00:02:11]A belly belly.

[00:02:12]>> A belly belly. Not an underbelly. Just full belly.

[00:02:14]>> Just there. Yeah. It's just there. And and but the the cool thing about it too is you also have >> a decent little bit of basketball knowledge too.

[00:02:23]>> Well, yeah, but no, I was an athlete in >> high school and college.

[00:02:27]>> Tell us about that.

[00:02:28]>> Uh so I wrestled >> Mhm.

[00:02:30]>> Uh in high school I was captain of my team and undefeated and then I got to college. That's a different I get to college and I meet these, you know, cornfed wrestlers from Iowa and I had a losing record for most of my years in college, but I love the sport cuz if you lose, you you you just got beat. You can't be blaming somebody else who missed the shot or missed the pass or whatever. If if they're better than you, they're better than you. And I would deeply respect that fact.

[00:03:01]>> Straight ones. And I'm about at the time I I've shrunken since then. I was 6'2.

[00:03:06]Wrestlers don't tend to be tall and and but you're wrestling someone exactly your weight. So if you're taller than they are and you weigh the same, they are stronger than you because you both basically have zero fat on your bodies.

[00:03:20]So they're stronger than you because their muscle cross-sections are larger.

[00:03:24]And so I had to be quicker. I have pretty fast reflexes. In fact, I have faster reflex than anyone I've ever met.

[00:03:32]We can test this.

[00:03:33]>> We should test We can test We can test this later.

[00:03:36]>> It's one of these grab the pebble from the hand thing. Yeah, we can test that.

[00:03:40]You if you >> What's the game where you you put your hands out and you got to like >> Oh, yeah. No, we can do that, too.

[00:03:44]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:45]>> Yeah. No, I I good stuff.

[00:03:46]>> I got this. Well, you're a professional athlete. So I let me say among among regular people I'm the fastest but among professional athletes maybe but anyhow I use those reflexes to just be faster than my wrestling opponent. So I'd grab their as an ankle pick or just move a little quicker to stay out of their muscular uh grip. And so that's how I would sort of survive that.

[00:04:14]Anyway, so I wrestled in high school and college. I also rode crew and I danced.

[00:04:20]I was a performing member of three different dance companies.

[00:04:23]>> And you you rode crew in college as well?

[00:04:25]>> In college. Yes.

[00:04:26]>> How did you That's a cuz crew you got to get up at 5 in the morning, right? How what was your how what was your day like?

[00:04:33]>> Yeah. And in the early morning and it's cold and your muscles don't want to perform when it's cold and so and you're out on the water and the water is wet and cold. Yeah. Nothing about that. So, how'd you juggle the these are these are >> two, you know, intense sports. Dance is a it also takes up a good amount of time to get good at it plus studying plus a a version of socializing. How are you managing your time at that point?

[00:04:59]>> So, that's where I learned about my sleep cycles.

[00:05:04]>> I have a different relationship with sleep than most people, I think. So, uh you know how you most people sleep maybe 8 hours? Let's call it 8 hours. So you go to sleep, you go to bed, and then you go to sleep, and you get deeper and deeper, and then there's sleep and all, and all all this is labeled by sleep experts. So you go into deep sleep, and then you come out, and then you wake up.

[00:05:28]Okay? So that's that's a kind of a rhythm. Turns out within that there are other rhythms. Okay? So here's how you find them. Okay? You ready? Before you go to bed, drink a gallon of water.

[00:05:43]Okay?

[00:05:44]and then go to sleep.

[00:05:46]When you wake up in night to go pee, you're on the ascent of one of these mini cycles. And so I found my mini cycles. And I said, "Well, how long is it?" This is about an hour and a half.

[00:06:01]That's three and a half hours. That's 5 and 1/2 hours. That's seven and a half hours. And so if I have work to do and I need more time, I will work through the day and leave one of these sleep cycles of time at the end of the day so that I will go to sleep and come back out of it. I'm basically fully awake. I don't drink coffee. You guys offered me coffee earlier. I don't drink coffee. I sleep with my sleep cycle. Have you noticed some mornings you wake up, you're groggy, and other mornings you wake up, you're just ready?

[00:06:31]>> Yeah.

[00:06:31]>> You've noticed this. There's a difference. And and and it's usually not necessarily determined on how many actual hours you got. It's just that it's how you slept. It's where you slept.

[00:06:39]>> That's what you think. And that surely that plays a role. But have you ever timed it? I'm thinking the answer is no.

[00:06:47]>> Next time how long you were asleep when you woke up groggy and how long you were asleep when you woke up basically awake.

[00:06:56]They will be different amounts of time.

[00:06:57]>> Do you sleep on planes?

[00:06:59]>> I can sleep I could sleep anywhere. this gets too boring.

[00:07:03]>> That's kind of like that's kind of like um a large part of this though, the ability to sleep anywhere when you need to get your sleep cycle.

[00:07:09]>> Yeah, that's helpful. So I can go straight in so you don't waste the half hour of what critical time. So So my only point is in college I explored and tamed these sleep cycles. I can maximize when and where I needed to do work for problem sets that were due the next day or papers that I'm writing and then sleep later like later in the day or the next day. Now they say you can't you can't bank sleep but I can go five and a half hours a day for 5 days and then nap on the weekends.

[00:07:44]Nothing at my age nap is the joint.

[00:07:48]>> Mine too.

[00:07:49]>> Oh me too. I love a nap. I'm one of the best.

[00:07:52]>> That two that 2 p.m. nap.

[00:07:54]>> I'm one of the best.

[00:07:54]>> The naps are fun. So anyway, so think about it what this might look like to aliens. An alien comes and visits and then you befriend them, right?

[00:08:04]>> And then you're hanging out and you say, "Excuse me, you know, Mr. Alien, I need to lay down horizontally and go semicomaosse for onethird of Earth's rotation >> or I can't function.

[00:08:19]Look at you say what?

[00:08:21]>> Or you'll get nothing out of it.

[00:08:22]>> What? And you just lay down and you you get poked. You You're just out.

[00:08:26]>> Yeah.

[00:08:26]>> And that's Look at what that might appear to aliens.

[00:08:31]>> Yeah. We just take it all for granted.

[00:08:33]And so what I'm saying, it's a third of your life. And I wouldn't get half the stuff I got done without this understanding of my sleep, which does not have to be and my waking state does not have to be chemically aided with caffeine. I don't I don't have any relationship with caffeine.

[00:08:48]>> I have a question for you about the sleep. So, this is a big thing I think with all athletes, but I know with the NBA guys with the with this there your game day schedule when you're like bracketing everything in. It's a there's the shoot around in the morning at say 11:00 a.m. Game starts at 7:00. You got to get to the arena at 4:00, whatever it is.

[00:09:06]>> Everybody has their version of the nap where it's like 1:30 to 2:15. JJ, my former partner Cam knows really well, was the most regimented about it. It would literally be like >> it's a power nap.

[00:09:17]>> If the thing got messed up by one minute either way, it would become it would be it would throw you off completely.

[00:09:23]>> Yeah. So rhythms matter here. Yes.

[00:09:25]>> I mean, we're rhythmic. I mean, Earth rotates, the sun rises and sets. We shouldn't be surprised that things that matter to us and enhance our lives have some rhythm to them. We shouldn't be surprised by that.

[00:09:38]>> Uh my nap is usually hour 45.

[00:09:41]>> Okay. See, he knows. And you wake up out of that, you feel good, right?

[00:09:44]>> Yeah. It can get up to 245.

[00:09:47]>> Okay. What I would declare is that's a second cycle. That's what I would declare.

[00:09:52]>> You're saying getting into the 245 started a second cycle.

[00:09:55]>> Yes, that's what I would say.

[00:09:56]>> So maybe I do need to Okay. So are you saying so back to your original point, >> you experience when you wake up is an incomplete sleep cycle.

[00:10:05]>> Correct.

[00:10:06]>> And usually have to wake up to an alarm.

[00:10:08]You're not waking up naturally. So you're better off waking up at the 4 and a half hour mark completing a sleep cycle than you are at the 5 hour mark 515 mark >> even though the 5 hours is more sleep correct when you want to be functional you want to work you want to be okay yes this is in my exper now maybe I shouldn't be speaking for people other than myself but I don't think I'm weird I'm I'm physiologically human last I checked although when I was a when I was a kid I wondered if I was alien and how would I know if I were I had these thoughts. We can talk about that later if you want. But >> so that's an important point. Yeah. So, so sleeping longer and waking up at the bottom of a sleep cycle is not as useful to you as sleeping shorter and waking on waking up on the upstroke. And you can find these because your body will wake you up to go pee. And when you wake up to go pee, you find the bathroom, right?

[00:11:05]You're you're you're basically >> so that's a timer from when you fell asleep to when you went pee and that signals that one of your obvious because you drank a gallon of water. You your body will find and you'll go right back to sleep. Okay.

[00:11:16]>> Interesting. Very interesting.

[00:11:17]>> Yeah. Yeah. What started this was how do I juggle all of this and so yeah there's there's structure to the day because the practices are always at the same time a day. You're right. Crew is 5 in the morning or 6:00 in the morning typically. I wake up at 5. Uh my dance uh practices were in the afternoon. Uh wrestling was 4 to 6, 5 days a week and hour a day in the gym, you know, fitness center. You got to be strong and as a as a dancer, you also need to be graceful.

[00:11:49]>> This explains, you ever see the the photos? This explains you were jacked.

[00:11:53]>> Oh, don't say. Don't say was still.

[00:11:57]Still are.

[00:11:59]Dude, you you were in the gym the whole You were You were in the gym. You were in the gym. You were in the gym.

[00:12:03]>> And so So, but for me, what's not obvious from that photo, if you you can probably find it on the internet. What's not obvious from that photo is I'm very pumped because I can't just that moment came off a wrestling match. And by the way, what's not obvious is I lost that match. Okay. It looks like I'm triumphant. No, I I lost that match. So, don't tell anybody.

[00:12:26]>> Secret.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah. Let them keep thinking that that was a triumphant gesture. But so what's not obvious is and it looks like I'm all kind of stiff there, you know, muscle bound, but no, no, I could do a split, a full split.

[00:12:42]And there's a certain when you're when you're dancing, you're not only strong, but you're graceful and limber.

[00:12:50]>> And that combination, there's nothing like that.

[00:12:52]>> For sure. That's why a lot of guys do a lot of like seemingly random um accessory work to >> that's what you call accessory.

[00:13:01]>> Yeah. You'll see you'll see for example >> in their routine they got >> Lynn Swan for example was famous for like doing ballet >> and his football style reflected >> Yes. And one of the coaches had them do did ballet sessions. Yeah.

[00:13:15]>> Exactly. So there's always something >> be a little more nimble toaded. Yeah.

[00:13:18]>> Yeah. So you're a really analytical guy.

[00:13:19]Goes without saying. You've your brain's always been like this. I can assume you asked it yourself.

[00:13:23]>> I was I was a I was a geek kid.

[00:13:26]>> Nothing wrong with that. It's turned out well for you. So, >> but it also means it means I think about stuff. Can I just tell you some observations I have of basketball?

[00:13:36]>> That's what I was just about to ask >> if I may.

[00:13:38]>> That was where I was going.

[00:13:39]>> Okay. So, I I have issues with some things. I want to hear it.

[00:13:43]>> Just get them off my chest. Okay. Is basketball the only sport where if your foot all the or the ball hits the line, it's out rather than in?

[00:13:55]>> What's the What's the college football?

[00:13:57]College football is different with the foot.

[00:13:59]>> Oh, it's different.

[00:14:00]>> If for college football in the NFL are different. It's like the one foot, two foot.

[00:14:03]>> One foot, two foot.

[00:14:04]>> Whether it's in or out, >> but a touchdown just has to the ball just has to touch the line.

[00:14:09]>> Even though the line is this wide, >> it just has to touch the ball for sure.

[00:14:14]So, American football is the >> Yeah.

[00:14:17]>> only one like. But if your foot any part of your foot or the ball touches out of bounds in football, you're out of bounds.

[00:14:22]>> So, football is like basketball. You're saying >> football's like basketball.

[00:14:25]>> So, if your foot touches the line, you're running down. That's out.

[00:14:28]>> Yeah.

[00:14:28]>> You got to Okay. Okay. So, >> baseball >> I thought if it hits the line, it's fair.

[00:14:33]>> If it hits the line, it's fair.

[00:14:34]>> Correct.

[00:14:35]>> So, football.

[00:14:36]>> If it hits the foul pole, it's fair.

[00:14:38]That's messed up.

[00:14:40]>> They should call it the fair pole.

[00:14:43]I think it's great. There's nothing better than a foul pole >> petition to change into a pole.

[00:14:48]>> It's a fair sign.

[00:14:50]>> Please, can I can we say that? And one last thing, cuz we're in the middle of the baseball season. I'll get back to basketball in a minute. I think if you are hit by a pitch on ball four, >> home run, >> you should go to second base.

[00:15:04]>> Okay.

[00:15:04]>> On ball four.

[00:15:05]>> Yeah.

[00:15:06]>> Why is it just for >> Because ball four, you walked, you got hit by doubling it up. double your money.

[00:15:11]>> You get DOUBLE YOUR MONEY. YOU GOT HIT BY THE PITCH. That's a base. It's ball four. That's a base. You go to second base.

[00:15:18]I That's the same. Just saying. Now basketball.

[00:15:22]>> But that's so important. What if a guy is like hunting to get hit by a pitch on a >> No, I think there's a rule. You can't put yourself >> just like a little.

[00:15:29]>> That's hard though because they're so clever. Like some of those guys Some of them >> I think there's a rule. You can't obviously step in front of the ball.

[00:15:37]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:37]>> And then get hit.

[00:15:40]I don't think you you want to do that anyway. But yeah, >> it's for the team.

[00:15:45]>> So here you go. You ready? So >> why and who started this? Was it Marv Albert to say a shot from way outside is from downtown? No, that's from the suburbs, >> I guess. Yeah, the game's probably being played.

[00:16:01]>> THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

[00:16:02]>> Downtown is the basket. That's where everybody is. If you're way out there, that's the suburbs. So, they should say the >> country shooting from the country.

[00:16:10]>> Speak. This is a shot from the BBS, from rural town. Okay. So, I have issues with with them calling it that.

[00:16:18]>> Keep keep going here. What What else What else are you seeing in >> But it's not good if if nobody agrees with me, but I'm just being rational.

[00:16:24]>> I'll sign that petition, too. Down from downtown to the suburbs.

[00:16:28]>> You're not downtown if you're way out in the suburb. You're in the It's a suburban shot. Okay. Okay. Now, here's something that no one is going to agree to, but you're going to have to admit it's rational. Okay? So, I'm old enough to remember when they put in the three-point line. Interestingly, people thought maybe the scoring would be higher, but it's not. It's approximately the same.

[00:16:51]>> Yeah, >> you might want to take that shot, but your percentage is lower. And so, it kind of canceled out. The games are in fact for some of the lowest scoring games ever have been in the era of the three-point line. So if you're going to have a three-point line for shooting it so far away, then the slam dunk should be worth one point.

[00:17:17]>> Can I give a counter argument? Can I give a counter argument?

[00:17:19]>> Is right. OH, AND THE HAND and you just drop it in. That should be one point. If she >> can give a counter argument >> from 30 feet out is three point and I know it's hard to get in there.

[00:17:29]>> Exactly.

[00:17:29]>> I know it's hard to get in there.

[00:17:31]>> Exactly.

[00:17:32]>> Okay.

[00:17:32]>> And that would deincentivize dunking.

[00:17:34]>> I know.

[00:17:35]>> So I have a fast break. I would shoot a layup so I wouldn't dunk so I can get two points.

[00:17:40]>> I have a better chance of blocking your layup than your big old >> But if I'm all alone, I had no reason to ever dunk.

[00:17:49]>> Right. And at the end of the day, it's just your score that matters, not how beautiful your 360 >> points is two. We say all the time, two points.

[00:17:55]>> Two points is two points. Not how beautiful your 360 pureed.

[00:17:59]>> I love the 360 per and it's an entertaining game.

[00:18:03]>> It's a whole.

[00:18:03]>> Do you believe in the four-point shot?

[00:18:05]>> What's the four-point shot?

[00:18:06]>> If you could if say half court or something like should they put in another is there another line where you could be if he would shoot from 40 ft and he hits it? I'm saying if distance gives you more points then a slam dunk should be one point. That's all. So I don't have a problem with that or or a shot beyond across the half court.

[00:18:25]>> This would be like this would be a question. So there's a guy on the Celtics, Pton Pritchard, who's incredible at um deep shots from beyond half court. He's probably shoots >> beyond half court.

[00:18:36]>> Yeah, he probably shoots like 70%. Like he doesn't do it that often, but when he does it, he makes it very very >> Why does he do that? He's just good.

[00:18:44]He's just really good at making the shot.

[00:18:45]>> He practices it. Yeah, he practices it.

[00:18:47]He does it.

[00:18:47]>> It's just a makeable shot form.

[00:18:49]>> He does it. He does it probably every 10 games. He'll try it and he'll make it a lot. But the question would just be if you're making a shot from like 70 ft.

[00:18:56]Should you get an extra point for that?

[00:18:58]>> I don't see why not. I don't see why not. Because you're rewarding a harder thing.

[00:19:04]>> Yeah.

[00:19:05]>> And so >> I'll tell you why.

[00:19:07]>> Why?

[00:19:08]>> Because >> and wait and look how many shots.

[00:19:11]There's like one and a half seconds left. You inbound. The clock only starts when the ball's touched.

[00:19:16]>> Correct.

[00:19:17]>> Inbound.

[00:19:19]>> You can't get it across the line.

[00:19:20]Somebody takes a shot.

[00:19:22]>> And this this is all in the in the March Madness, right? Yeah.

[00:19:25]>> The college shots from beyond half court. People lose their [ __ ] when you make it. And it'd be interesting if that in fact was a four-point shot.

[00:19:34]>> I just >> It brings more possibilities.

[00:19:37]>> It does. But it also it could also like basketball has a specific flow to it.

[00:19:42]>> Yeah.

[00:19:42]>> And if you know randomly you have guys that decide to pull up for four points at any point in the game >> just like it would be really nasty looking and it could really interrupt the flow if if a game is down to the final two minutes can't make four points himself >> and teams just start chucking four points back and forth like it would become a lot >> it would become really bad. We have a couple guys that are really good on on my team. On my team, Jamal Murray, Nicole Joic, make shots from anywhere.

[00:20:12]>> Have you watched Have you watched much of Joic, his teammate?

[00:20:15]>> No.

[00:20:15]>> Oh, you got to watch them.

[00:20:16]>> You I would I would love it.

[00:20:18]>> I would actually It would be really fun.

[00:20:20]>> It would be really fun for you to watch his highlights and watch the technical aspect of some of the shots and passes he makes and the and the and the physics of what he's able to pull off because of all of the players in the league, and it's not even us being biased. He's definitely either the best player in the world.

[00:20:35]>> He's like a basketball version of yourself, >> but he is but the stuff that he does doesn't make sense.

[00:20:41]>> A high process.

[00:20:42]>> Okay. No. So, it's a it's on another level of of engagement.

[00:20:47]>> Yeah. How would you describe it now that you've been with him for a year?

[00:20:50]Extraordinary like spatial awareness.

[00:20:52]>> Mhm.

[00:20:53]>> And that that mental mapping just of his body where the defense is in space and can just >> Okay.

[00:20:59]>> process like that.

[00:21:00]>> Court IQ. That's what they >> But like that even that is like >> okay >> a lot of guys have a good court IQ. He has something just a little >> something else going on. Yeah, I'll check it out. I'll check it out.

[00:21:10]>> I got a question for you.

[00:21:11]>> Well, a couple of things. Let me I got to get this all over my chest. So, do you know how much bigger the rim is relative to the basketball?

[00:21:20]>> Yeah. Two basketballs, >> which if you do the math, that means it's four times the cross-sectional area of a basketball. Four times. So, I'm just saying it's visually it looks like it's a much tighter thing than it actually is. Which is why people can come in from all over and not Well, they'll occasionally miss and that's really embarrassing the dunk.

[00:21:45]>> I've done it.

[00:21:50]>> But there's a lot of area in there to put the ball. It's You're right. It's 2x. It's two times the diameter.

[00:21:57]>> You know, though, and this is another interesting point. Um, >> you you can sub submerge two balls simultaneously.

[00:22:03]>> Doesn't feel like that sometimes.

[00:22:05]>> Sometimes you can submerge three.

[00:22:08]>> It's funny how it works like that though, right? Like it's funny how the perception of, you know, you hear the terms like I I can't throw the ball into an ocean today or I couldn't hit the backside of a barn. These are all expressions that are used like, >> you know, in an arena, in a 20,000 seat arena where there's so much empty space, the perception of a hoop seems so much smaller.

[00:22:27]>> Yes. Yes. There's a psychological element of that for sure. Yeah.

[00:22:32]>> All the way.

[00:22:32]>> Uh, couple more fast stories. I know you want to probably talk about other things. You should talk about basketball all the time.

[00:22:38]>> So, you don't need to talk about it with me. But, >> uh, did I tell you I'm of the era I came of age with the old Knicks, you know, from Wal Frasier, Willis Reed, Dave Debusher, these guys. And, uh, and, uh, Bill Bradley, later Senator Bill Bradley. So, uh, at the time I had a classmate in high school who was ball boy for the Knicks. That was around when Wal Frasier got the sneaker contract with Puma. First ever sneaker contract among your people. Okay. I learned at the time that my foot size was the same as that of Wall Frasier. And after every home stand, Wal Fraser would throw away his sneakers because he'd get another pair from Puma. And my guy pulled the sneakers out of the bin and brought them back to me. So for like a year and a half, I was wearing Wal Frasier's Pumas.

[00:23:37]>> And they're they were pretty fresh, I assume, cuz >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. He bought Yeah.

[00:23:40]>> two one or two games.

[00:23:41]>> Yeah. How much how much athletes feet can you put in a sneakers you wore three times? And so, no, I didn't save them.

[00:23:48]People ask, "Did you save them?" No, I'm not wasn't thinking that I just need I just wanted better sneakers.

[00:23:53]>> Did you Did he know this?

[00:23:55]>> I would ultimately bump into him and tell him and he he was mildly amused by it, but he didn't say, "Oh my god, it was overreacting my my shoes for a year."

[00:24:08]>> So, so anyhow, I just Oh. Oh, one last basketball story. So I if you want a measure of how good or bad I was at basketball. So I grew up in the Bronx and in a pickup game of 10 people I would be chosen fourth or fifth out of the total of 10. Okay. Five on five. That's I would never first and definitely not in the bottom. That's a bad place to be. That's not a bad place to be for you know for a kid scientist.

[00:24:39]>> BUT NOT CRAZY HIGH EXPECTATIONS.

[00:24:40]>> EXACTLY. EXACTLY. EXACTLY. I could I could jump high. I could dunk when I was in middle school. Okay. And because I have large hands and that's what you need. How else are you going to dunk if you can't >> jump higher?

[00:24:54]>> You could dunk it. You could dunk in middle school. I would also say with your build and these sports you're talking about, he was like Aaron Gordon.

[00:25:02]You're like a like you're a you would be >> Well, I was very athletic. I I was athletic. So, I'm just I don't want to lighten that. Four seems I could see you going like two or three. I feel like >> No, no. And by the So, >> you could shoot, could you?

[00:25:15]>> Sorry. Let me be more precise. I could dunk alone on my own approach to the rim. I couldn't >> You needed You needed to run. You needed some space.

[00:25:26]>> Yeah, exactly. I couldn't I couldn't never do that in a game. Yeah, just to be clear in a very >> You weren't yamming on people.

[00:25:34]So, um, so I had kind of average, slightly above average street ability.

[00:25:40]We spent a year in Lexington, Massachusetts when I was in seventh grade.

[00:25:46]>> I was like 12.

[00:25:47]>> Mh.

[00:25:48]>> And uh cuz my father had an academic a one-year academic appointment up in Cambridge and lived in a private house.

[00:25:57]It's like whoa, there's like a garage and there's a tree. That's like our tree, you know? I I I'm a city kid. This is weird that there's grass and you have to mow the lawn and it's like what is this? Anyhow, there's a local park where they had a b, you know. So, I would go there, ride my bicycle there. I started playing with the local kids and in my first game, I'm, you know, checking one of them and one of them jumps to shoot and I jump to block the shot.

[00:26:32]And I block his shot with my elbow. It was like, "Okay, okay, I'm not in New York anymore.

[00:26:41]>> Different crowd.

[00:26:43]>> Where? Where am I? People can't jump.

[00:26:45]They can't shoot. They can't It's a basketball court in the hood." Well, I don't call it whatever the suburban variant of a hood is. So, I realized that standards were much higher in the city than they were in the suburbs. So you would have gone triple platinum in the suburbs as you stay. You would have bullied bullying false to block the guy just reach up. They would not want to see me.

[00:27:14]>> Those are all my basketball stories.

[00:27:15]That's all I got for you.

[00:27:17]>> If you were an NBA player right now, what do you think your game would be given the analytics of the game? I love that question. What would you value as a player? Would it be scoring in the paint, dunking, say you're however tall you want to be? Would it be three-point shooting?

[00:27:37]>> Yeah, I was never as good as I wanted to be at free throws. That's an that's it's embarrassing. No one is in your face.

[00:27:46]And even professional players don't hit that 100% of the time. And that's what makes the alien so weird cuz he's 9 ft tall and he's hitting free throws. When was the last time you had a sevenfooter hit free throws that at that rate >> at his height? It's not that common.

[00:28:03]>> It's not that common.

[00:28:04]>> Was Yao a good free throw shooter?

[00:28:05]>> Really? 90 plus.

[00:28:06]>> Yeah. Yeah. And 40 plus from three. I mean, he shoots >> if Yao shoots from today's game.

[00:28:11]>> He shoots from >> Yeah, he could shoot. It just bigs didn't shoot as much. But Vic is is is the mobility aspect into the shooting.

[00:28:19]It's also I think I think the three-point shooting I mean he shoots 40 plus on a bunch of attempts from >> 25 30 feet which is its own thing.

[00:28:28]>> That's his own thing. So that's I I love the question. Um, my favorite thing to do, which I first saw with with Bill Bradley, was I'm running and I hit a spot at exactly when someone passes me the ball and it's an instant release so that I'm not trying to dribble around you, but it's a >> Okay. So, you're not going to be a dribble guy. You're a shoot.

[00:28:53]>> I could dribble, but I was not good dribblers I could not come close to.

[00:28:58]That's right. Mathematically, analytically, how much value would you put on a three-pointer?

[00:29:03]>> Well, given the risk that you might not make it, I mean, unless you know you're a three-point guy, uh, it's why the scores do not go up in the game. People over value the three-pointer relative.

[00:29:16]>> You think it's overvalued today?

[00:29:18]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:29:19]>> Yes, it is. It's great. People love it.

[00:29:22]>> He doesn't want me to have a job.

[00:29:26]If it had the value people thought it did, scores would be much higher. Game scores would be much higher. I think that's a clear fact. But it allows different kinds of players to showcase themselves.

[00:29:39]>> What was the last athletic achievement that just like completely blew you away just as a fan as a casual fan?

[00:29:49]>> I'm a fan. I like excellence in sports like no matter what. Uh I like when someone performs and it doesn't even look like they're trying.

[00:30:04]Like who's our guy with the Dodgers uh who pitches and Otani when he hits a home run it's like oh let me just swing the bat and then it goes out of the park. It's like oh yeah okay let me just swing here. Oh, let me just throw a 90 mph pitch. Oh, can I bat now? Can I No, we have we have designated hitters for this. No, I don't need that. Let me just let me let me please trust him.

[00:30:31]>> And uh plus they had to make a new rule for him because when they take him out as pitcher, normally you leave the game, but they take him out and he becomes designated hitter. That a new rule.

[00:30:42]>> It's amazing.

[00:30:43]>> Yeah. When you have that level of talent and you got to make a new rule for it.

[00:30:46]So that's I'm impressed just how smooth that is and how casually he's just setting records.

[00:30:54]>> I'm going to change the pace up a little bit here.

[00:30:56]>> Oh, please. Yeah, let's talk about I mean, >> well, I'm we're going to we're going to we're going to gently move into this.

[00:31:02]So, basketball has sort of borrowed basketball rhetoric has sort of borrowed some astrophysics terms, >> has it?

[00:31:11]>> Yeah. So there's something um a term in you know the NBA lexicon called a heliocentric offense.

[00:31:19]>> I had not heard that >> where your best maybe your best really high usage player gets get like if you have one guy that's really dominant.

[00:31:30]>> They might call that sort of offense that is built around him a heliocentric offense. And that usage rate generally what what's a high usage rate? high 30s, maybe 40 for a guy like that is what qualifies. Do you think that that's worthy of a of of the term heliocentric?

[00:31:45]>> Anytime a cosmic term works its way into our culture, I'm all for it. Just think about it. In Hollywood, if you're famous, you're called a what?

[00:31:54]>> Superstar.

[00:31:55]>> A star. You're a star. Where do you get that word from?

[00:31:58]>> Okay.

[00:32:01]Forget that.

[00:32:02]>> What other words can we take back and forth? What is the shape that is embedded in the sidewalk? It's a star.

[00:32:09]That's my people. But I like the heliocentric. It means there's one main person others orbit.

[00:32:13]>> Exactly.

[00:32:14]>> Orbit him and you you happen and you fit players around.

[00:32:18]>> Yeah.

[00:32:19]>> That can comfortably orbit.

[00:32:20]>> I like that. He >> It's hard to have.

[00:32:22]>> That was Copernicus 1543.

[00:32:25]He on the revolution of the heavenly spheres. And that's the name of his book in Latin. He wrote in Latin and the revolution it's called.

[00:32:35]>> I got a question along that line.

[00:32:37]>> What's that?

[00:32:37]>> We just talked about the most brilliant sports kind of achievements that you've seen.

[00:32:43]>> What do you think is the most brilliant cuttingedge scientific revelation or achievement ever? And you know we're we're we're at a pretty advanced state in technology and knowledge compared to somebody like Capernicus. But at what point do you think the the the most difficult the most brilliant leap was made individually?

[00:33:06]>> Mhm. Mhm. The two I think they compete with each other. Very different from if you ask me that about technology.

[00:33:12]>> Yeah.

[00:33:12]>> Okay. With regard to technology, I would say the smartphone was the greatest invention ever in the history of inventions.

[00:33:24]And if you carried a smartphone back in time, like they would burn you at the stake for witchery.

[00:33:31]>> Yes.

[00:33:31]>> Okay. Given what these things can do, it's like, "Oh, let me take your picture. Oh, let me let me listen to Beethoven's ninth symphony. Oh, let me call someone in Europe." It's like, "What?" It's like, "What?"

[00:33:43]Just all Okay, >> hold on. Let me charge.

[00:33:48]Yeah. So, uh, but in terms of science, >> science >> two, you ready for me?

[00:33:54]>> I'm totally ready.

[00:33:55]>> Okay. Isaac Newton sitting in his backyard, Lincolnshshire, England.

[00:34:02]It's his summer home. He's there. He has an apple tree. He sees the moon in the sky orbiting Earth.

[00:34:12]And he sees an apple fall. Didn't hit him on the head. Don't think that's that way.

[00:34:17]and he deduces that it's the same thing.

[00:34:24]The intellectual leap that that required is stupendous. What he said was the apple is falling to earth. By the way, if I put you in an elevator and cut the cable, what? Put you in an elevator and there's a scale, a spring scale below your feet, and what do you weigh right now? 220 lbs.

[00:34:46]>> 220. Okay. It'll show 220.

[00:34:49]I cut the cable.

[00:34:51]>> I drop.

[00:34:52]>> The elevator drops. The scale drops and you drop. You are no longer squeezing the scale between the bottom of your feet and the floor of the elevator. The scale reads zero. You are weightless in a falling elevator. Let's keep going.

[00:35:08]You hold pull something out of your pocket like a pen or something. And you hold it in front of you in the elevator.

[00:35:15]I haven't cut the cable yet. And you let go of the pen. What does it do?

[00:35:18]>> Falls to the ground.

[00:35:19]>> Falls to the ground. I cut the cable and you let go of the pen. It's still quote falling to the ground, but the ground is falling also. And so are you. And so is the so is everything. So the pen will just sit there in front of your eyes as we go. Weightless even though everybody's falling.

[00:35:39]Okay, watch. Isaac Newton said, "Hm, suppose I pushed, let's take a cannon and put it on top of a hill and I and I and the the cannonball just rolls out and falls out. There it is. It falls to earth. Suppose I give it sideways motion. You fire it horizontally. It'll go farther before it hits the ground. It'll be falling the whole time. You can picture it. There'll be an arc.

[00:36:08]>> Mhm.

[00:36:08]>> Okay. It'll fall a little farther away.

[00:36:12]Let me shoot it faster.

[00:36:15]Even farther.

[00:36:17]Let me keep doing this, increasing the speed.

[00:36:22]>> Farther. He deduced that there must be a speed where the cannonball comes all the way around and hits you in the back of the head and the entire time it is falling towards Earth. It just so happens Earth's surface is curving away from it so that it never actually gets closer to the Earth yet it is falling. He deduced that a falling apple and an orbiting moon was the same phenomenon. Which is why astronauts are weightless.

[00:36:59]They're not weightless cuz they're in space.

[00:37:01]>> They're weightless cuz they're falling.

[00:37:02]>> Because they're in freef fall towards Earth just like your ass in an elevator after somebody cut the cable. That's why when they let go of the pen in front of them, it floats in front of them. This was a one of the most brilliant deductions I think ever made. And there's another one made by Einstein.

[00:37:20]It's and more a little more subtle, but it was also completely brilliant. But that one I think is good enough for now.

[00:37:28]>> Is it?

[00:37:31]>> Okay. His geek ender belly is showing here.

[00:37:34]>> No, I just This is I I just love I love this.

[00:37:36]>> Okay. You want one more? You want an Einstein one?

[00:37:39]>> I think he wants a couple more. I think he wants >> Einstein one is going to be a good um >> it's going to be good >> a good addendum to the >> but you got to stay with me on it.

[00:37:46]>> Trust me I'm I'm >> okay. Uh your mass >> is your the total material content of your body.

[00:37:56]>> Mhm.

[00:37:56]>> Okay. So the old Weight Watchers thing, they let's reduce your weight, let's lose weight. If you want to lose weight, go to the moon and you'll weigh 16th what you do now.

[00:38:07]>> Okay. What they really are are mass watchers. You want to lose mass. You don't just want to lose weight.

[00:38:14]>> Okay.

[00:38:15]>> Because you lose weight, you still have all the same mass. Okay. So, >> you can lose weight without losing mass.

[00:38:23]>> Correct.

[00:38:24]>> Just by going to a place that has lower gravity.

[00:38:27]>> Mhm.

[00:38:27]>> All right. Your mass is your resistance to a force that's trying to accelerate you.

[00:38:40]>> What I mean by that is if I give the same amount of force and you have twice the mass as this other person, you will accelerate at half the rate. That kind of makes intuitive sense. Obviously, heavy cars need bigger engines to accelerate the same amount. Okay, that makes complete sense. So, we can think of mass as a resistance to your acceleration when a force is applied. Okay, that there's an equation for that famous physics equation F= ma mass time. Force equals mass time acceleration, right? So that means force and acceleration on opposite sides of the equation. If I have a higher mass, the force gives you less acceleration because when they multiply, you have to get the same number off the side. There's an equation for gravity, gravitational attraction. Any two objects that have mass will attract each other. Any two objects, Earth is attracting you.

[00:39:43]>> You're also attracting the entire Earth.

[00:39:45]Do you know how much the Earth weighs being attracted to you?

[00:39:50]220 lb.

[00:39:52]>> Yeah.

[00:39:52]>> Okay. Your mass is attracting the entire Earth at a weight of 220 lb. It's it's a it's a two-way street.

[00:40:03]>> Yeah.

[00:40:03]>> Okay. Turns out the mass that's in the gravity equation is different from the mass that's in the force equation. The F= ma. One is called an inertial mass. One is called a gravitational mass. They're conceptually different. Einstein said, "What if they're exactly the same?"

[00:40:28]What would that mean?

[00:40:31]If they are exactly the same thing.

[00:40:34]Well, let's measure your mass using this force experiment and let's measure mass using gravity things. I'm getting the same number with the same object in each case. Let's keep doing this experiment.

[00:40:47]We get it to three decimal places, five decimal places, eight decimal places. Maybe they're exactly the same thing. So Einstein said, "Let us assume they're the same thing."

[00:41:00]>> What consequences does that have? What he said was if you're in a rocket ship and it's accelerating and you have no windows, you're just in a rocket ship accelerating at 1g. Okay, that would be like equivalent to the gravitational attraction on Earth. 1g and you weigh yourself. That's an inertial mass there because it's a rocket pushing you. Weigh yourself. You will weigh yourself because the bottom of the rocket keeps pushing against you. You will have a weight on that accelerating rocket. Write down that number. Come back to Earth. Stand on a scale. Those two numbers are the same. He's saying maybe they are deeply the same.

[00:41:49]If they are, if you're in a in a room and you weigh yourself, you there's no experiment. you can conduct that will tell you whether you're on a planet or on an accelerating rocket.

[00:42:07]And he said, "If that's the case, if that's the case, wait a minute, if I'm on a rocket and I'm accelerating, if I shine a beam of light across the rocket between where the light was turned on and when it arrived at the other wall, the rocket moved faster cuz it's accelerating." So that you expect the beam of light to land a little lower on the far wall because it we're always moving faster. So your flashlight is moving at a different speed when you turned it on than when it arrived at the wall. Okay. So >> you're in the rocket.

[00:42:45]>> You're in the rocket >> and you're shining light on the wall.

[00:42:47]>> On the wall and it'll curve downward.

[00:42:49]>> Mhm. If the gravitational mass and the inertial mass are exactly the same, that must mean that gravity will bend light. Holy [ __ ] Gravity bending light. What does that even mean? Why? How do And so in 1919 during a total solar eclipse, Sir Arthur Eddington, an astrophysicist, used the gravity of the sun, which is large, as a laboratory for following starlight that came near it.

[00:43:25]You can only do this during an eclipse cuz the the light of the sun is blotted out and you can see stars in daytime. He measured the positions of these stars during an eclipse and then he waited six months when the sun is not there. The positions of the stars shifted confirming Einstein's hypothesis. It's called the equivalence principle and is the foundation of general relativity and general relativity is the foundation of our entire understanding of black holes, the big bang and the expanding universe.

[00:44:00]Albert Einstein 1915.

[00:44:04]>> Amazing.

[00:44:05]>> The equivalence principle.

[00:44:06]>> Amazing.

[00:44:07]>> Those are the two, I think, towering achievements of the human mind.

[00:44:11]>> Would you put them equal or would you give one >> in their day? Yes. In their day, I would put >> equally as brilliant.

[00:44:18]>> Yes. I would put Newton above Einstein if I had to rank them just >> because it was a just a little bit more revolutionary.

[00:44:24]>> Yeah. And what Newton did relative to people around him cuz you do that in sports, right? How >> a little more novel. Yeah. How do how do you say how good Will Chamberlain was?

[00:44:35]>> Comparing him to somebody else.

[00:44:36]>> It's very hard in a different era. So you have to look what was he compared to everybody else at the time.

[00:44:41]>> Correct.

[00:44:42]>> That's really that's the only really way you do this. So for me, Newton would be at the top. By the way, by the way, general relativity and relativity as a thing also tells us that time slows down for you, >> right, >> if you're moving fast and if you're accelerating. But it will also slow down for you if you are in a gravitational field. GPS satellites are high up and are sitting in a different gravitational strength than we are on Earth's surface.

[00:45:15]Time ticks faster for them that yet it is the source of our time worldwide GPS satellites. So, because of this relativistic effect, we have to pre-correct pre-adjust the time it beams back down here to Earth to we earthlings crawling on our surface. So, so it affects things you don't even know or care about.

[00:45:40]>> Yeah. But it's such a although massively important, it's such a minute difference.

[00:45:45]>> No. Well, don't tell that to the military. I I know it's massively, but if if you're off by a few seconds, that's seconds relative to the rotating Earth and you want to have a missile hit a target, you're going to be off by 50 yards.

[00:45:59]>> And that's why I said massively important, but a a small fraction of time. Correct. Am I correct?

[00:46:05]>> Yes. It's it's seconds. Yeah.

[00:46:07]>> So, when something grows larger than seconds in terms of gravitational distortion of time, just how gravitationally massive or fast are those objects in space.

[00:46:22]>> Well, no. So, yeah, you can set the equation to tell you how do you get a really big difference. So, there were twins.

[00:46:31]NASA identified twins. There's the Kelly brothers, identical twins. They sent one into space and left one here on Earth's surface.

[00:46:39]>> The senator, >> one of them is became senator. Yes. I always get them Mark.

[00:46:43]>> Mark's the senator. Mark the other one's the astronaut.

[00:46:46]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:46:46]>> Okay. I had one of them on my podcast and I say, "Uh, so which which twin are you?" He said, "I'm the better looking one."

[00:46:54]>> They look exactly alike. It's crazy.

[00:46:57]>> So, in the equation predetermine how fast you'd have to go or how strong the gravity would have to be to make a really big difference.

[00:47:06]famously portrayed in the film Interstellar.

[00:47:10]They're astronauts or or you know in the movie they're astronauts who went down to the surface of a planet >> that was in close orbit to a black hole.

[00:47:21]They were down for 15 minutes.

[00:47:24]when they came back the fellow astronaut on the ship I I don't remember how aged 15 years 20 years because the gravity was so severe time was so slow for them and but you don't even know it you're just being yourself entire reference frame has shifted and so for that scene that was purposefully calculated >> to get that effect >> right >> so that you can say oh my gosh cuz the guy hadn't bored he had gray hair by then >> yeah Yeah, >> great movie. Amazing movie. One of the best, maybe the best. Um, as we phase out of our basketball talk and get into the weeds of the real business at hand and and sports pods like ours, we like to talk about hypotheticals a lot.

[00:48:07]>> Let's do it.

[00:48:07]>> Like you said about wilt or or you said LeBron's free agency is is an impending decision. There's a lot of hypotheticals about what if he joins this team, what if he joins that team?

[00:48:18]>> In astrophysics and in science in general, there are a lot of hypotheticals. Some of them are particles. Of the hypothetical particles, which ones have your support?

[00:48:29]>> Well, particles of dark matter. Exactly.

[00:48:32]Oh my god. Particles.

[00:48:33]>> Yeah. If you're a betting person, >> Yeah.

[00:48:35]>> you're going to bet that this mysterious dark matter, which has been with us since 1935 when it was discovered. So, what is that? That's like 90 years. is the longest unsolved problem in astrophysics. There was a there was an astrophysicist at Caltech who found a cluster of galaxies. You know, we have clusters of stars.

[00:49:00]>> Yeah.

[00:49:00]>> And stars together make a galaxy. Yeah.

[00:49:03]>> You look out in the universe, you have clusters of galaxies.

[00:49:05]>> Yeah.

[00:49:05]>> Whole systems of hundreds of billions of stars. And that's just one of many. Like a beehive. I wonder how much mass is in the galaxy cluster. So he goes to each galaxy.

[00:49:18]writes down how much there's ways you can get this. How much mass is in each galaxy, tallies that he then says, okay, how fast are these galaxies moving? That's an indication.

[00:49:32]That's another way to find out how much total mass is there. Because if there's not enough mass and you're moving at a certain speed, you'll just escape. Mass is what keeps you there. The gravity is what keeps you bound to the system. He wrote down the individual masses of each galaxy. Then he did the global calculation and this number was a hund times bigger than this number.

[00:49:59]He said there must be some matter that's not giving me light that's responsible for this gravity. Thus was born dark matter.

[00:50:10]However, to say to even say it's matter is an assumption.

[00:50:16]All you know literally is that it's dark gravity.

[00:50:20]That is a literal correct truth in any day of the week. Dark matter implies it's matter. If you don't know what it is, as I've joked, I call it Fred. Okay?

[00:50:33]You don't want to bias the person who's trying to come up with a solution.

[00:50:37]>> Okay, Fred. Okay, that problem where there's more gravity out there than the amount of matter that we've measured can supply is it's a 90y old problem. We still don't have a solution.

[00:50:51]If you are a betting person, I would say the dark matter particle.

[00:50:58]It would be a special kind of particle in the universe that doesn't otherwise interact with ordinary matter. Ordinary matter gives off light and you can see it and you can poke it. You can do things with it. A dark matter particle would have very little interaction with our particles, the electrons, protons, neutrons. And so you propose it. Then you have to find out well what made it where did it come from? Has it been around since the big bang? And so then you populate the universe with this dark matter particle and it accounts for all the missing object, the missing sources of gravity you can't otherwise account for. I think this is the this is a a very fascinating thing about your line of work because as well-rounded and rigorously tested as it is and how much thought goes behind every experiment and how thoroughly these experiments are conducted, we get a really good idea of what's going on through our scientific methods. Yet there's still a lot undiscovered.

[00:52:08]>> Yeah. If it's worse than that.

[00:52:11]If you add up the dark matter and there's al something else called dark energy, which is also mysterious.

[00:52:16]>> It's a mysterious pressure in the vacuum of space that is making us accelerate in our expansion against the wishes of all the galaxies that are trying to slow things down >> with a lot of gravity and a lot of math.

[00:52:29]>> Yes. It's overcoming all of that >> which so it's a large amount.

[00:52:32]>> It's it's okay. You add up those forces operating on the universe, it's 95% of what's driving the universe. The remaining 5% is everything else that we know and love about this universe. And it's what gives us the the biology, the chemistry, the physics, the engineering, all our laws of physics, our periodic table of elements. All of this is 5% of the known universe. So we know enough about the universe to quantify our ignorance.

[00:53:02]>> Exactly.

[00:53:04]Five 5% is a is a crazy number.

[00:53:06]>> Exactly. It's crazy. It's crazy. So that's why there are no badly egotistical astrophysicists.

[00:53:14]We're humbled daily in our steeped in ignorance.

[00:53:18]>> You're still it's still a tiny percentage.

[00:53:21]>> It's like how do you know? I don't know.

[00:53:22]I'm still working on it.

[00:53:23]>> I barely know what I do know.

[00:53:25]>> I barely know what I do know. And that's why newspaper headlines that lead with new result will send scientists back to the drawing board or their cherished theories will have to be reannounced.

[00:53:37]>> It's constantly >> we are always at the drawing board.

[00:53:39]>> It's constant. Everything is subject.

[00:53:41]>> We're never sitting back in our office.

[00:53:43]Legs up back there.

[00:53:44]>> We got it. We got it.

[00:53:46]>> No. No.

[00:53:48]>> But we kind of think we we do like >> No, but the press would the press has you think that so that when a new thing comes they think we're all kicked off of our stool >> along these lines. So let's continue with this with this thought here.

[00:53:57]>> We'll get to aliens too.

[00:53:58]>> We are constantly in search for a unified theory. We we have our relativity amazing jump. We have our quantum mechanics amazing discoveries.

[00:54:07]We're constantly like searching for a unified theory that would in that would really help us with these missing pieces. What do you think is closest to that? And what do you and and we talk about like swings and misses. like what has been a theory that's popped up say over the last 50 60 years and been like a no we're way off with that one.

[00:54:29]>> Yeah. So I h I I'm a little more agnostic about this.

[00:54:35]The idea that there's a unified theory of the universe is philosophically driven. We we we >> we want understand >> because that would be beautiful if everything in the universe derived from one equation and you get it all. that that's that's a philosophical bias that we are placing on the >> that's an interesting perspective >> and I don't want to be that guy because I've seen other examples of this want to hear a couple others please >> here goes one uh Capernicus says let's put the sun back in the middle of the known universe well that makes earth a planet doesn't it >> because before that earth was the center of the known universe and the planets were these things in the sky earth becomes a planet Well, okay. What trajectories do we have around the sun?

[00:55:25]Well, clearly there'll be perfect circles because that's the heavens and that's where God lives and a circle is a perfect geometric shape. Why would God make any other shape at all other than perfectly circular orbits?

[00:55:40]This is a philosophical presumption placed upon a new idea turn out to be wrong and it would take well 50 60 years to realize that that assumption had to be discarded. Kepler would show that planets orbit in ellipses which is an ugly circle. Okay, different kinds of ellipses. Some are a little more elongated than others. All planets orbit in ellipses, not perfect circles. But people clutched to that idea for long. And some were ready to throw out the heliocentric idea because the orbits were not >> lining up as they should. Yeah.

[00:56:21]>> And you say, "You have this new idea, Nicholas. Nick, Nicholas Capernicus, Nick.

[00:56:27]>> Nico, >> we love Nico.

[00:56:30]Nikki boy, we we sounds like a fun idea, but I'm they're not matching up with the paths of the planets. You know what does match these epic cycles that I Okay, they match up, but not your new theory. So, I don't know about your new theory. Turns out it needed an adjustment and there was a philosophical barrier there that prevented it. All right, another one.

[00:56:54]Kepler. This is a little more obscure. I think you'll like this. I will. is obscure and it's like right in there.

[00:57:00]>> Kepler before he figured out how the planets orbited the sun with he deduced that they were in ellipses and the Kepler's laws of planetary motion. Before he did that, he noticed well okay uh there's six planets Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

[00:57:22]Okay. Do you know that in geometry there are what are called five regular solids? What is a regular solid?

[00:57:33]It's you take a shape and can you tile can you tile that shape in such a way that you can make a three-dimensional object out of it with no gaps. So take a square, you put six squares together and make what?

[00:57:50]>> Once one cube >> cube. Okay, that's one of the five shapes, >> right?

[00:57:54]>> Okay, there's another shape. You can take a triangle, have three triangles together, and a triangle at the bottom. That gives you what?

[00:58:04]>> Like a pyramid.

[00:58:05]>> A pyramid. That's the second one. Okay.

[00:58:08]There are only three others.

[00:58:10]>> Yeah.

[00:58:11]>> There's only five. And Kepler knew this.

[00:58:14]And he thought there was some mystical magical connection here. You have six planets and five solids. If I take the solids and embed them in each other, then I get ever shrinking sizes. Maybe the distances of the orbits track the positions of these five solids if I embed one in the other. That sounds crazy in retrospect.

[00:58:45]>> Yeah.

[00:58:45]>> But he's saying God must have some plan for this. This is a We didn't make the universe. God made the universe. Because if you have five shapes, that would be five separations of six objects, right? If you have six objects, there are five separations of five gaps.

[00:59:03]>> Five gaps. Five gaps. So, he puts the gaps there with these nested solids. And we're talking about a threedimensional universe. He spent 10 years trying to get this to work >> and he said, "This is just not working."

[00:59:14]>> Yeah. It's above me, right?

[00:59:18]and he said, "I have to discard my philosophical leaning towards the beauty of this five solid um plan, had to discard them, and only then did he make the actual discovery that the planets are an ellipses."

[00:59:35]>> But he did discover it and he did get it to make sense in a certain framework.

[00:59:41]>> Well, except that he didn't. The five solids had nothing to do with any of this. It's not like he finally tweaked them the right way. He's he spent 10 years getting nowhere.

[00:59:51]>> So when it comes to a unified theory and the philosophical prettiness of it, >> and so because of these examples and a few others, >> maybe it's not pretty, but is there something beyond?

[01:00:04]>> Is there would there be some type of theory that could account for everything that goes on? That is assumed because right now general relativity the theory of the large as you surely know >> does not comport with quantum physics the theory of the small.

[01:00:19]>> Quantum physics space is quantized.

[01:00:22]That's where you get the quantum from whereas in general relativity space is continuous.

[01:00:27]>> Mhm.

[01:00:27]>> Can't have what? What? Okay. So the shotgun marriage occurred at the big bang when the large was small. And if the large was small, does quantum physics affect the entire universe if the whole universe is small? This is where we get a multiverse from because you have quantum fluctuations and one of them pops out a whole new universe. If all universes are small, pop out a new one and it makes a new universe, >> right?

[01:00:52]>> But they don't play well in the sandbox.

[01:00:55]So you need yet another understanding of the universe to unify them in order to then declare you have the a unified field theory of the universe which Einstein searched for gave up trying.

[01:01:10]People have been looking for >> for decades. So I'm just saying one or three things. Maybe there is one. We haven't found it yet.

[01:01:18]>> Maybe there isn't one at all. Maybe they are fundamentally incompatible. Deal with it.

[01:01:25]Or >> that's a tough pill to swallow.

[01:01:28]>> Here's an even tougher pill. Maybe we're just too stupid.

[01:01:33]>> That's an easier pill TO SWALLOW.

[01:01:36]>> Maybe humans the >> I think that's the most likely one.

[01:01:40]>> Why should the >> That's usually the answer.

[01:01:42]>> Why should the human brain be smart enough to deduce all that's deducible in the universe?

[01:01:49]>> Is it even achievable?

[01:01:51]>> This is my point.

[01:01:52]>> Is it supposed to be achievable? This is my point.

[01:01:54]>> But we have accomplished more now to what felt unrealistic 100 200 300.

[01:02:00]>> So, however, look at my tonsils. However, read my tonsil. However, think about it. Think about it.

[01:02:15]What's the closest genetic relative to humans?

[01:02:19]>> A primate of any kind. Chimp.

[01:02:22]Chimpanzeee. Chimpanzeee 98 plus% identical DNA.

[01:02:28]>> Yeah, >> I like this thought. I like this.

[01:02:32]>> Does the smartest chimp >> do?

[01:02:35]>> What a baby does. What a kid does.

[01:02:37]>> Okay. Smartest chimp can stack boxes to reach a banana.

[01:02:42]They They have a few other things they do. Our toddlers could do that.

[01:02:46]>> Yeah.

[01:02:47]>> And we have 98% identical DNA. So if you're religious or you feel strongly about making sure we are distinct from the rest of the animal kingdom, you would say, "What a difference that 1% makes."

[01:03:00]>> Sort about.

[01:03:00]>> We have philosophy and art and literature and civilization.

[01:03:05]The chimp just stacks boxes. Here's the thought experiment.

[01:03:10]Suppose the difference between stacking boxes to reach a banana and the James Web Space Telescope. Suppose that difference is as small as that 1% indicates.

[01:03:23]You say, "Come on, Tyson. No, of course there's a big difference." Suppose it isn't.

[01:03:27]>> Yeah.

[01:03:29]>> Here's a way to think about it. Get some other species from another planet that is the same 1% in intelligence beyond us in that same vector direction that we are beyond chimps. What would we look like to them?

[01:03:50]Chimps, >> the smartest humans would be capable of what their toddlers can do.

[01:03:59]So, it might be that they can't communicate with us because they cannot bring their brain to such a low level to make any sense to us at all. We can't meaningfully communicate with dolphins.

[01:04:16]Their brains are bigger than ours. We can't mean it. We can't meaningfully communicate with any other animal in the world. Okay. You go to a chimp, say, "Hey, what what's a good chimp name?

[01:04:25]Bozo or Sure. Bozo works."

[01:04:27]>> Sure.

[01:04:28]>> Yeah. Bozo. Okay. Uh, I'm going to catch a plane. I'm going to go to LA. I'll be But it's just a quick I'm going to be back tomorrow, but there's a shipment of bananas that came in. I'm going to bring some back for you. Do you do you prefer them ripe or unripe?

[01:04:43]What is the chimp here?

[01:04:45]blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bananas blah blah.

[01:04:50]Our simplest thoughts are not conceivable to a chimp. No matter how smart your chimp is, we can probably agree you will never successfully teach it long division or the multiplication table, >> right?

[01:05:05]>> That's not calculus. It's not engineering. That's not building a bridge. The simplest thing. So, what would these aliens be thinking of casually in their day that would transcend the greatest thoughts ever had by any human? And when I think about that and I look at the universe, I don't approach it saying it will succumb to the intellect of human beings. I don't have that much ego going into that conversation.

[01:05:35]>> I like that. So maybe if there is a unified theory, >> they got it.

[01:05:42]>> It is beyond >> they got it.

[01:05:45]>> They got it and we don't >> and that's okay.

[01:05:48]>> And and that's okay.

[01:05:49]>> We got to deal with that.

[01:05:50]>> We got to deal with it.

[01:05:51]>> You're You have a dance background.

[01:05:52]>> Yes.

[01:05:53]>> What's your favorite >> Oh, by the way, it's not I didn't dance with a Broy or anything. They were college troops, but I I performed on stage, but it was college troops. It wasn't like >> Broadway.

[01:06:02]>> Yeah. It wasn't the Not Broadway. No.

[01:06:04]No. What's your favorite cosmic dance, if you will?

[01:06:07]>> Could be planets orbiting the sun. Could be >> Yeah, you got it now. You You know my question.

[01:06:14]>> The spinning planets orbit the sun along their appointed paths like pirouetting dancers in a cosmic ballet choreographed by the forces of gravity.

[01:06:30]The universe is itself a dance. So, our solar system is your favorite.

[01:06:37]>> It is got the best choreography around.

[01:06:40]Intermittent visiting comets, pure wedding moons.

[01:06:44]>> You think we have the most interesting solar system?

[01:06:47]>> Uh, Earth and our moon is a rare combination of how big our moon is. We have one of the biggest moons in the solar system and we're not the biggest planet. So that's our moon has a unusual origin story but because the moon is so big on the sky in fact is the number the moon is >> just as big as the sun and >> well yeah so so the sun is 400 times bigger than the moon >> and 400 times farther away. So they're the same >> size on the sky.

[01:07:17]>> It's pretty cool. And so that when the moon comes in front of the sun, you get a total solar eclipse bucket list for anybody on earth.

[01:07:25]>> Next rapid fire question. Why are our eyes tuned to see the specific wavelength of light that we see >> cuz we we we are awake and do our business in the daytime.

[01:07:38]>> And that's so it's an it's an evolutionary >> Yes, completely.

[01:07:41]>> Okay.

[01:07:42]>> Oh, yeah. Insects love twilight. Okay.

[01:07:46]They see very well ultraviolet because the the sky is a very deep violet in when the sun is low on the horizon. And so that awakens them and that's why it's evidence we're smarter than bugs because bug zappers are ultraviolet light.

[01:08:02]>> Gotcha.

[01:08:02]>> And we attract them and zap them. They don't know any better. It's sad when you think about it.

[01:08:06]>> No, it's good. We need them.

[01:08:07]>> They're just doing the doing um >> doing their thing. What would different sunrises and sunsets look like on the different planets in our solar system?

[01:08:17]>> Or what would they look like if we saw different wavelengths of light?

[01:08:20]>> At our wavelengths of light.

[01:08:21]>> Oh, at our wavelengths. Oh, so on on Mars, >> which sunrises and sunsets in our solar system would be your favorites.

[01:08:28]>> If you could pick one to go to and sit there comfortably.

[01:08:31]>> Yeah. Mars is >> you get a lawn chair. You get to kick your feet up. You get a cooler with your favorite drinks in there.

[01:08:36]>> Got it. And oxygen.

[01:08:37]>> And oxygen. So Mars has an interesting element because Mars is red from the color of the of the surface. It's basically rust. It's iron oxides in it.

[01:08:50]And and the d there's very fine dust particles that get blown into the air.

[01:08:55]>> So that would make the daytime sky red.

[01:09:00]And given the optics of what's in the air, the setting sun, because it's taking out all the red light, the setting sun would look blue.

[01:09:10]So, it's the inverse of what we have here on Earth. Pretty cool.

[01:09:12]>> Where we have red sunsets and blue skies. They have red skies and blue sunsets.

[01:09:17]>> I wanted to talk about the large hydron collider. I mean, it's down for maintenance right now and there are a lot of conspiracy theories around it.

[01:09:25]And do you think any of them hold weight? Like, what is their intention with that? Is it a little bit more sinister potentially? Is it purely in the name of education? Is it actually messing with the world? I It's just That's more of a fun question instead of getting, you know, really deep into the weeds on it.

[01:09:44]>> Everything is a conspiracy.

[01:09:46]>> Yes.

[01:09:47]>> When you don't know anything about anything.

[01:09:49]>> Let's find out.

[01:09:52]>> Spin them. Just saying. Spin them.

[01:09:55]Everything is a conspiracy when you don't know how anything works.

[01:09:58]>> But that's where that's where we're going with that.

[01:10:00]>> Well, yeah. I mean, I'm just saying learn how things work. I mean, >> well, that's what we're trying to do, right?

[01:10:07]>> It was I I had a quick one, a little morbid, but quick. I was eyewitness to September 11th. And I have my own camcorder footage of it.

[01:10:17]>> And there was conspiracy immediately rose up around it that there were detonations put in the buildings cuz it it collapsed at like freef fall. Yeah.

[01:10:26]>> Was the claim. And so someone got my email. My email was a little more accessible back then.

[01:10:32]>> And said, "You were eyewitness. Tell me uh how do you explain that it was it couldn't have been a plane if it free if it free fell?" Okay. So I said, "Oh, let me go back to my camcorder."

[01:10:46]And I timed the fall.

[01:10:50]It took like three times longer. The whole thing happened quickly, but it took three times longer than it would have if it were in freef fall. I calculated use it basic first week physics 101 equations. I wrote back to the guy and I said it was not in freef fall.

[01:11:09]and he said, "Oh, you're part of the conspiracy."

[01:11:13]He would not accept. And like this is not something that I personally deduce with my own personal equations.

[01:11:20]This is physics. So that person was not prepared to even approach something that conflicted with what he was sure was otherwise true.

[01:11:31]>> Yeah.

[01:11:31]>> And this is a repeating >> very common >> element. very >> because you already claim you know it's true and you make everything fit and if there's a gap in the evidence for you you say that's withheld or that's an a conspiracy. So yeah I yeah the less you know about the world the more everything looks like a conspiracy to you.

[01:11:51]>> This is a dual question because I'm only allowed one more. I'm going to classify it as one. Your intelligence as a science communicator is kind of at the forefront of your name as we can tell by your your you know your bars that you've dropped today. Give us one of your bars that kind of encapsulates the grandness of the universe, the scale of the universe and how we fit in that picture if you will. and um conclude with your thoughts on aliens and where might they be and what might they be doing and how could we find them? Could we not find them? What is the likelihood of of another living thing being out there?

[01:12:30]Maybe more mathematically than philosophically.

[01:12:33]>> Let me start with the alien one and I'll end with my reflective thoughts.

[01:12:38]>> Apparently, we all know what aliens look like because Hollywood has told us, right? They got big old almond shaped heads.

[01:12:45]>> Sometimes they're green, sometimes they're gray. Gray. Gray skinny finger.

[01:12:48]>> Exactly. Exactly. And >> you know they never have a head of hair though.

[01:12:55]>> No.

[01:12:55]>> That'd be cool if they had a whole quafted head of hair because they are humanoid. If you're going to walk out of space with legs, two arms, torso, neck, eyes, just like us.

[01:13:04]>> Just they're basically just like us. If that's how you're going to portray them.

[01:13:08]>> Yeah.

[01:13:08]>> And if they're just like us, give them some hair. I'm just thinking that's all.

[01:13:12]Uh I I'm disappointed with the creativity of Hollywood.

[01:13:16]>> They're getting there's been better.

[01:13:18]>> There has been they're trying >> they're trying.

[01:13:20]>> Are they calling Jail Mary was a a cute >> my boy my boy Andy Weir who wrote that and he also wrote The Martian of course is trying to break a break which is great trying to break the Hollywood >> and that was another one of my questions. We can't get to it today but >> he's trying to break the har and I claim he has succeeded and we need more of that. Okay. So, because most life on Earth with whom we have DNA in common looks nothing like humans.

[01:13:49]>> So, how would they >> So, you're going to come in has no DNA in common with us or no DNA at all and it's it's going to come walking off the ship with two eyes, a nose, a mouth, two ears, a chin.

[01:14:02]>> Yeah. Right.

[01:14:03]>> And a neck and shoulders.

[01:14:04]>> Yeah. Right.

[01:14:05]>> Just saying. Just saying. So another most alien portrayals they're evil. Why?

[01:14:14]We have no knowledge that aliens would be evil if they arrived. But you know what knowledge we do have?

[01:14:22]>> We about ourselves >> our own behavior. Any time in the history of civilization, one subset of civilization with higher technology than who had encountered has never voted well for the part of that encounter where they had less technology.

[01:14:42]>> These are own biases.

[01:14:44]>> They they they've been enslaved, slaughtered, given disease. It has never boated well. So, high-tech aliens come to Earth and we show them slaughtering humans, that's a mirror into our souls.

[01:15:03]>> 100%.

[01:15:04]>> And the more we realize that, the more of a lesson that becomes. Not in, oh my gosh, this is what aliens are like. No, that's what we're like. Turn that turn that lesson around and think a little differently about it.

[01:15:19]And uh also I I worry about the alien comes takes a closer look at us.

[01:15:28]Well then I wonder people say that they've been probed by aliens.

[01:15:32]Just think this through. Okay. Aliens cross the galaxy in a spaceship of high design and they come to you and they want to probe your butthole.

[01:15:49]Yeah.

[01:15:50]>> REALLY? HOW BIG IS your ego that you your alien is looking up your butt?

[01:15:58]How big is your ego? That that's the most fascinating thing to an alien who crossed the galaxy. Just think that.

[01:16:03]>> It takes a big ego to even think that the alien would have any concern with Earth as a whole >> as at all at all. Unless they're just simply curious cuz we're curious. We have people >> small and presumably far away from >> That's true. But we have people who study ants and worms and bacteria professionally, but not the as a total population, right? Because they're small and we don't think or care about them like at all. But I wonder if alien comes, what would their first knowledge that we're here be? Be our radio signals emanating from Earth >> in a radio bubble expanding at the speed of light. And we've been sending radio signals for like the last 80 years.

[01:16:42]>> Okay. Leak leaking sign. They're leaked sign signals. Our TV and radio leaked into space. So that leading wave of our radio signals and television signals has like Howdy Duty.

[01:17:00]Amos and Andy.

[01:17:03]Who who remembers Amos and it's two white guys, one of them pretending he's black, having a conversation. Okay.

[01:17:12]Oh, yes.

[01:17:14]This is okay. This is early.

[01:17:16]>> That's what we got out there.

[01:17:18]>> That's the first thing I see of this.

[01:17:20]>> And what else was out there?

[01:17:21]>> That's our first message.

[01:17:22]>> The honeymooners.

[01:17:23]>> I always wonder that.

[01:17:24]>> The honeymooners are out there.

[01:17:26]>> That's what they see first.

[01:17:27]>> Which is otherwise loving couple, but occasionally the husband threatens with his clenched fist to punch his wife hard enough so that she will ascend into space and collide with the moon.

[01:17:43]This is Ralph Cranon talking to his wife. ALICE TO THE MOON, ALICE. AND we all laughed at that in the 1950s. Okay, that's what's on its way out. So, the aliens first encounter is going to be that to understand who we are and what our culture is.

[01:18:03]This is scary. Okay. and they're going to get the the the broadcasts of the Nazi rallies in the 1930s. Okay, this is this is the first indication of who and what we are by aliens. Then if they come visit us, they're going to look around and say, "You're killing each other." Why?

[01:18:28]Oh, because that person worships a different creator of the universe than I do.

[01:18:37]So, I'm going to kill them. Oh, that person's skin reflects sunlight at a different intensity than the other person's. I'm going to kill you. You're born on this other side of this line, arbitrary line I've drawn on Earth's surface.

[01:18:56]I'm going to kill you. You're eating foods different from me and my God doesn't allow that. I'm going to kill you.

[01:19:06]You are sleeping with somebody that I don't want you to. I'm going to kill you. The alien is going to see this. The violence on earth because of who you pray to, who you sleep with, what you eat, when you eat it, how you eat it, how you pray, what you look like, and the sounds that come out of your mouth.

[01:19:25]They will immediately get back into their spaceship, report back home. There's no sign of intelligent life on Earth.

[01:19:36]>> No, not the No, >> we need to plug the book. Take me to your leader.

[01:19:41]>> What? Well, I'm not done here. Wait a minute. So, in Take Me to Your Leader, it is a leveling of that conversation.

[01:19:51]It's if the alien comes, what are we going to look like to them? Not that's just what they look like to us. What do we look like to them? How would that go down? Are you going to take them to the White House as a first thing? You know what I do? I would take them to the National Academy of Sciences. That's what I would do first off right there.

[01:20:10]Oh, by the way, Obama was in an interview. He said he wanted to be there for an alien encounter. And that's I saw this.

[01:20:16]>> Well, because he's a politician and if there was a political thing with the aliens, we would need a politician cuz scientists are not politicians. But if they just want to share their science and technology, we don't need politicians. Leave them at the at the gate. Bring in the scientist. I'm going to show them a periodic table of elements and other things that are part of our discoveries. Do you realize the elements on the periodic table? You remember from chemistry class, it's a kitchen. Those are ingredients in the cabinet of a kitchen.

[01:20:47]>> Whatever the aliens are doing, they're using those same ingredients because those are the ingredients in the universe.

[01:20:55]So that's where we start.

[01:20:56]>> Everybody we those are the base ingredients of the universe.

[01:20:59]>> That's where we start >> and that's I want to start the conversation there.

[01:21:03]>> So the book has chapters alien to us, alien to them. Talk about what could be alien intelligence, alien science and technology. And I conclude with a chapter called alien to me just my reflections because ever since I was a kid I wanted to be abducted by aliens like in the back you know in the backyard just sit there I'd look up oddly I wouldn't have these thoughts when I'm with other people showing them the telescope but if I'm alone with my telescope it's just me the telescope in the universe I just long for a beam of light to come down and just take me away not that I don't like Earth. Love me some Earth. But I'm curious about other ways of being alive in this universe and other ways of understanding how the universe works. Now, let me leave you. I know you got to go. Let me leave you with the most astonishing fact that I know.

[01:22:05]It's that stars in their core manufacture elements. The elements we've come to know and love on the periodic table. The universe wasn't born with those elements.

[01:22:19]>> They created them in the core of the star >> created them with heat and fusion, thermonuclear fusion. The stars that are best at that, they end their lives exploding, scattering that enrichment across the galaxy into gas clouds that enable the next generations of stars to have the ingredients of life, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron.

[01:22:48]So think about many people they stand out and look up in the universe, they feel how small they are. Yes, you are small in space, in size, in time. Yes.

[01:22:59]However, when you look up at the night sky, when I look up at the night sky, I'm not thinking how small I am.

[01:23:07]I'm thinking how big I am.

[01:23:11]Because those ingredients forged in the cores of stars made me.

[01:23:21]It's not simply that I am alive in this universe.

[01:23:30]We are all made of stardust.

[01:23:34]We're part of a great unfolding cosmic story. We are participant in that story.

[01:23:41]And because of that, not only are we alive in this universe, the universe is alive within us.

[01:23:50]And that is a 20th century discovery of astrophysics that borders on the spiritual.

[01:23:57]So you can't go into the universe with a big ego, it'll get squashed. Go in there with no ego and you will ascend into the cosmos emotionally, spiritually, and intellectually.

[01:24:14]Neil deGrasse Tyson. Everybody grass everybody.