What’s Next – Truecaller’s Mmathebe Zvobwo on Fighting Scam Calls in South Africa

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:04][music] >> It's a great pleasure to welcome Matebe Zobo. Now, Matebe is the director of market development at Truecaller, where she leads the company's expansion across Southern Africa, and she oversees market growth, localization strategy, monetization, as well as partnerships advancing AI-powered communication safety and trusted identity solutions, digital identity solutions. So, it's a warm welcome to you. How are you doing today, Matebe?

[00:00:38]I'm so good. Thank you, Aki, for having me. I look forward to our conversation just tackling Yes. the topic at hand.

[00:00:45]Yeah. Now, listen, I I'm looking forward to it because I am a fan of the software, and obviously there's there's a lot of controversy around the software as well, but I find it incredibly useful.

[00:01:00]Um I mean, I use Truecaller day-to-day, and it saves me a lot of money and a lot of time.

[00:01:06]Um and when I say money, I talk about from from scams, cuz there's a lot of scamming going on in the country, but you know, I was looking at the stats, and South Africans received over 30 billion. Let me repeat that. 30 billion spam calls in 2025, and more than 5.3 billion in just the first 2 months of 2026.

[00:01:28]We're under siege. What does this tell us about how serious the problem has become, and why should people start seeing this as more than just a nuisance, because it has become more than just a nuisance. It's dangerous.

[00:01:42]Exactly. Thank you so much, Aki. You're right. We are seeing 5.38 billion of spam calls in just the first 2 months of 2026.

[00:01:53]That's about 21% to 24% year-on-year increase based on the same period. So, we're seeing that spam calls are actually accelerating in South Africa, and nearly one in three unknown calls is either a high-volume marketing call or a potential scam.

[00:02:13]So, we're finding you're right. It's starting to feel like we're under siege because the phone has become a space where the odds are starting to get stacked against you.

[00:02:24]The global anti-scam alliance report on South Africa in 2025 found that last year South Africans lost 40 billion rand.

[00:02:34]Over 40 billion rand to spam call or to scam calls. So, the impact is starting to be financial.

[00:02:43]And specifically with scam calls, our data found that our users experienced 1.6 billion scam calls in 2025 alone.

[00:02:53]So, we are starting to South Africans are under pressure, and the same report that I quoted earlier is also finding that 87% of adults have encountered a scam.

[00:03:06]So, on average, each person faces a scam attempt every single day.

[00:03:12]Now, that is absolutely frightening.

[00:03:14]>> the the background that we're finding in the South African landscape. We're also finding that it's not necessarily just a South African problem. It's a global problem. But sitting this is one of those countries that is definitely most affected.

[00:03:29]You know, that you you're spot-on in the research, and I mean, I can I can I can just attest to this.

[00:03:35]This is just getting worse and worse.

[00:03:37]It's not getting any better, I'm afraid.

[00:03:40]And it's got to the point where I I kind of hesitate to answer an unknown number. If I don't know the number, I I don't answer it. Firstly, if there's no number, if it's an unknown number, then I don't answer it. But then if I don't know the number, I don't kind of answer it. And it's been to my detriment. I'll give an example.

[00:03:57]Yesterday, for example, I I a few days ago, I went to go and get some, you know, order some new tires, and the guys were trying to get hold of me to tell me that my tires have arrived for my car, and I was ignoring their calls because I thought it was a spam call. And and I guess many people are finding this challenge, and people are missing job opportunities because it might be a a real genuine call. It might be a delivery. It might be a medical call. It might be something that or someone that really needs to speak to you. So, are we at a point where trusting communication is breaking down?

[00:04:34]Yes, we are finding that trusting communication is breaking down. And actually, our purpose is to restore that trust in communication.

[00:04:43]And really, you're right. You could be missing a doctor's appointment, a medical appointment, or even a recruiter, right, that could potentially change your life and connect you to an amazing opportunity. So, our job is really to help our customers or users take the right calls and not just to miss the wrong ones. But yes, we are finding that trust is becoming an issue. And in fact, actually research also shows that so, if I look at um just published research around that victims who about 43.6% of victims that have experienced scams actually have interpersonal trust in general. So, they then also do not trust any other sort of relationship that they have. Um also lack some self-trust because they describe themselves as gullible or know, how could I have fallen for this? I'm naive.

[00:05:37]And so, people actually default then to not answering their phones. So, you're finding that people just don't then answer their phones.

[00:05:44]But also they it's also followed with institutional trust or trust in financial services or banks and specifically becomes an issue, where we find that in the, you know, 54% of South Africans actually reported a scam, and they found that no action was taken. So, they start to actually find that there's there's an issue with institutions. And lastly, you are right. We are seeing that up to 97% of victims change their online behavior after a scam.

[00:06:16]So, they either disengage completely from digital financial services.

[00:06:21]And so, this is obviously a a big cost to the economy because we are a mobile-first economy.

[00:06:29]Disengagement does create a second-order crisis. It does create a financial exclusion or digital exclusion or missing those opportunities that you spoke about. And that's why at the end of the day, you know, our business is really about how do we make sure that the various actors in the economy in the economy as well as individuals are able to connect a lot better so that they don't miss the most important calls.

[00:06:55]And I love I love the word you used or read you've used somewhere about it being an industrialized scam economy. It's so It's so true when you describe where we are today.

[00:07:07]In in practical terms, what does this actually mean? And and and and and how are fraudsters evolving faster than traditional defenses because there's no doubt that they're getting smarter, and technology is helping them get smarter.

[00:07:22]Exactly. So, we are finding that it is becoming industrialized, and there really specific mechanics that enable um spammers and scammers to really um intrude our phones at a very in a very large scale. So, if we think about auto-dialing software, which basically is an auto-dialer that cycles through massive lists of numbers automatically, randomly generated, bought for bought either from data brokers or harvested data leaks.

[00:07:57]It essentially allows um people to be essentially spammed at a large scale. So, it does not wait for someone to answer. If the call goes to voicemail, it moves on instantly. And if a person picks up, either plays a pre-recorded message that I'm sure you've you've heard yourself or transfers the calls to a live operator. So, these systems can place millions of calls per day from a single server. There's no human sitting at the desk dialing numbers.

[00:08:25]It's entirely automated. And so, it shows you the nature of the industrialized component or or the industrialized phenomenon that we're seeing. And then when we think about voice over Internet Protocol or what we call VoIP, traditional phone calls are expensive at scale, but what VoIP does is that it roots calls from over the Internet instead of the telephone network. So, it it reduces the cost per call dramatically, which means that a spammer operating anywhere in the world is essentially able to call South Africa multiple times at a fraction of the cost. And so, you'd have also heard of caller ID spoofing.

[00:09:06]Um and so, via SIP, so VoIP calls use a protocol called SIP, a session initiation protocol, and basically, it's a form it includes a form header field that tells the receiving network that the number to display what the number to display is as the caller what the number to display to be when when they call you. So, SIP does not authenticate this field by default. So, you can actually create any number and mirror any mirror any number through caller ID spoofing. So, so this is the the the nature of the technology that allows us to be experiencing these spam calls and scam calls at scale and even mirroring some of our contacts.

[00:09:54]But of Of we are obviously looking at this and uh we've got a number of solutions that enable us to intercept some of these calls. For example, with spoofing, we've just launched secure calls in South Africa about a month ago to make sure that businesses protect their numbers from spoofing.

[00:10:13]Okay. Wow, it's it's actually quite frightening when you look at it the way you described it. And and and you know, some people I've got some friends who say, "No, when you get when they get a scam call, you know, they say, 'Hold on.

[00:10:25]I just wait 1 second.'" And then they think that by keeping them waiting for 10 minutes, uh you know, you're wasting their time number one and it's costing them more money. But actually, it's it's it's AI and it's a robot that's fighting you and they've figured out the costs and the costs are super low. So, it doesn't make a difference in the bigger scheme of things. And this comes back to my my point uh now is about AI because you know, here we've got AI trying to figure out and find and you know, do this uh where it's all coming from.

[00:11:03]Yeah. With the rise of AI-powered scams like voice cloning, for example, and spoofing, how is Truecaller using technology, particularly AI, to stay ahead of increasingly sophisticated threats? Because you're using AI and they're using AI as well.

[00:11:21]Yes, and that's the beauty. We have to use AI uh ultimately. And so, our AI does four distinct things uh simultaneously. It detects fraud and scams in real time. So, we are able to look at patterns and behavioral patterns in terms of you know, how a call la how long a call lasts for um and other signals that we get uh as part of those pa- pattern uh you know, that indicates spam and and fraud. We also classify businesses uh automatically and we are able to summarize community feedback in real time. So, actually, our community, at the end of the day, of about 500 million users across the world is our superpower in that sense. So, while we have AI, uh the feedback that we have from our community is the best. So, you find that our community warns each other in terms of you know, it's a robot call or they're pretending to be from this bank or they're pretending to be from a call center. So, once that community is, you know, creates the signals, our AI is able to summarize those signals in real time and essentially flag a call as a scam, potential fraud, uh or spam behavior.

[00:12:33]And so, in terms of voice cloning, voice cloning is a very interesting phenomenon, right? Um and it is growing and it's becoming a a global threat. So, scammers using AI-generated audio to impersonate someone you know or trust uh essentially, you know, are able to harvest the power of voice cloning. So, our primary defense against this in South Africa is actually two-layered. As I said, our community intelligence is super important, which means if a close a clone voice scam has happened to somebody on the app or user on the app, they're able to flag that and warn um other users. And also, we're able to use tools like AI Assistant, which is part of our premium offering, which essentially is able to screen a call before you answer it and essentially ask the call some vetting questions, the reason for the call, um record the voice uh the conversation and transcribe it for you, and also send you a notification as to whether or not you want to be answering this call. So, there multiple ways we use AI, uh but you know, most importantly for us is that our community is our first layer of defense. AI is our validation layer, but also how we make sense of the world in the back end.

[00:13:53]Okay. Um now, I've got lots of people I know, including myself, who use the free version, which is uh which is fantastic.

[00:14:02]And many people use the free version. I know some people who use the premium version. They say, "Wow, you know, the features are amazing and it's worth the money." So, talk to me about the people that use the free version and what is the the one premium feature that fundamentally changes their experience, the thing that makes them go, "I can't go back and this is worth the money."

[00:14:26]Right. So, the free version is already built in with a lot of features. I must be honest.

[00:14:32]Yes, it does. It does. Right? So, the first important thing is it uh helps you identify who's calling, uh which which matters a great deal. And we also have a basic auto block uh on the free version, which means that for the top known spammers that we know of, that really spam, so make thousands and thousands of calls within an hour, those are then automatically blocked um on your list and the phone doesn't even ring. So, what happens is you'll get a missed call and that missed call will then show that it was a spammer or a scammer trying to contact you. If you're not sure, you're able to go onto Truecaller, the app itself, search, use the search function and and see what other community members have said about it um as well. So, that's the free version.

[00:15:19]But the premium version sort of steps it up a little bit. Um and what it does is you do not only get um protected from the top spammers, but you get but you also get protected from all the spammers that we know of that all community members have flagged and in real time, we are able to then make sure that you don't take that call. And we're able to flag that call as a missed call as well and, you know, you're able to see as well from a search function. The beauty about doing a search function as part of the premium package is that you obviously are not exposed to ads and I know a lot of people don't like ads. But you know, we have to make it sustainable.

[00:16:00]>> [laughter] >> You know, so So, that's the premium that's the premium offering.

[00:16:07]Um but also, that's the feature where you're protected from um all the spammers and all scammers. That's a feature we call max auto block. Now, what I love most about the premium version is the ability to use a combination of what is free uh on the free app as well as um max auto block together. So, we've got what we call family protect in the free version. And what family protect does is it's basically a you can be an admin for your family where you're able to automatically block spammers and um from from accessing your family members.

[00:16:47]So, in the free version, you're able to do that for only the top spammers. In the premium version, you can do that for all spammers. Uh and all, you know, all the the calls that we've listed that our community have flagged as either spam or scam or fraudulent calls, you're able to do that in real time uh for your family.

[00:17:05]And that is less than 10 rand a person, hey? So, I'm just saying that protect your family, um it is an amazing feature as well. And of course, I know that AI Assistant is becoming a a very interesting feature in South Africa where essentially, as I said earlier, it screens your calls um and essentially acts like a personal assistant when you're busy uh or where they we we recognize that this could be a potential spammer or a scammer. And, you know, by the time it's done, you've got your transcription, you've got your uh voice recording, you're able to call the person back if you feel like you need to be doing that.

[00:17:47]Okay. All right. And and I mean my data that, you know, you guys you you have access to to some parts of my I don't know, my phone list or whatever.

[00:17:58]That that that's all safe. As as as a as a user, one can be rest assured that their data's safe, it's protected, and you don't sell it to anybody else or I mean, you you know you know the security concerns that people have with data.

[00:18:13]100% and there is a misconception that um we sell your data.

[00:18:20]We category I can cat- categorically say this, we don't sell your data. Um we don't sell your number to ex- third parties at all. And in some instances, not even some instances, when I think of just our um interface with iOS, a lot of that data is encrypted. So, there's a lot we can't see. It involves the encryption uh between ourselves and the iOS platform and that's typically how it operates. There are also some controls and measures in place from an Android perspective. But obviously, when you sign up as a user on Truecaller and you give us your name, your uh you know, your surname, your uh your number, we we obviously know that data. However, we do not sell that data to any third parties. In fact, we are ISO 27001 accredited, which means that you know, we're very strict in terms of how we manage data. So, it's about data management um and making sure that there is really discrete management of data uh of our users, of our own uh financial information.

[00:19:30]Uh because we're also listed on uh the Stockholm Nasdaq. Um I know some people may think Truecaller is just an app, but it actually has people that actually uh work for it and it is actually listed. So, we have a protocol in terms of how we also um essentially share data and how we make sure that we safeguard data at all costs. And we also test those operations in terms of, you know, business continuity. We're also accredited, so it means that even in the most difficult times or even in with disruptions, we're still able to make sure that your data is secure.

[00:20:14]Brilliant. Brilliant. Yeah, that gives people a lot of peace of mind cuz that's one of the questions that people ask.

[00:20:21]And I've heard the term as well that people speak about Truecaller as a digital neighborhood watch. Which is a It's a fantastic description for what you do because you help a lot of people. How powerful is that community layer in really protecting users and why does participation matter? And I I guess when you start adding scale and 10 people getting the same spam call and you report it, you're helping other people as well.

[00:20:47]Yes, you know, the the trick is not in the algorithm.

[00:20:53]The trick is not necessarily um in the AI, although we use AI quite extensively. The secret in our mode is really in our community. As I said, Truecaller has about 500 million users across the world. That's half a billion users across the world.

[00:21:11]I'm just thinking of how many countries could fit into that number. And these are the people that really make Truecaller. And these are people that once they've gotten a call and it was either a fraud it was trying to extort money from them or it was a robo call, these are the people that go onto the app and mark this call as either a fraudulent call, a scam a scam or spam call. But this community acts together, so there isn't one single person that has veto power in terms of who can be a spammer and who is a fraudulent call. So there must be multiple people reporting this sort of call for it to count as a spam call or a scam call. And so what it means is it actually shines the spotlight back to the calls we receive because then the question is if multiple people are flagging you as spam or scam or fraud or fraudulent, then it means that there are signals that that we need to read and take seriously. And obviously that's where the power of AI comes together and ensures that we're able to pick up the right signals and validate those signals. But we also make sure that on the other end, you know, for example, we connect our community with businesses, right? And that's why we've got Truecaller for business as an offering which essentially has various tools that enable businesses to connect with their customers. One of those tools is, for example, call reason. It's amazing when a business calls you and you know why they're calling you. You instantly know, okay, then this must be an important call. So with call reason, what we do is when businesses come into our platform, they are not only verified, but they're able to tell their customers why they're calling them. For example, your bank could tell you that they're calling you with regards to KYC documents. And in case you're not available at that point in time, they're then able to to say to you with our functionality that we have, send you a notification and say to you, "Please call me back or arrange an appointment with us to call you back at a time that is suitable for you."

[00:23:24]What that means is once you select that option, it automatically links back to that particular business's dialer and that business is able to then call you back when you are ready to receive the call. As you've, you know, you started the conversation earlier and you noted how inundated customers are or our our phones are with either messages or phone calls. And so it matters that we're able to schedule the right times for customers to take the right calls as well. And that's that's really how we bring not only the community on the platform, but also businesses being able to connect with that community and create that whole flywheel, which is a connection flywheel.

[00:24:06]Brilliant. Listen, you've explained it so well and anybody that has any questions, I'm sure you've answered all of those questions. But, you know, we touched on the safety side and the trust side and and you really you you you gave me a a great answer to that and anybody that has any questions about trust, you explained the ISO. I mean, you you've got to trust the company you're downloading and sharing information with.

[00:24:34]But there might still be some kind of skepticism. Somebody watching at around apps like Truecaller.

[00:24:42]And and it's often the people that that ask these questions that have downloaded a completely random app and given that app all the permissions to access every part of their phone that ask these kind of questions and there are lots of dodgy apps out there.

[00:24:57]Let's be honest, Truecaller is not one of them. What would you say to those people after watching this who are still a little bit unsure as to why they should trust a platform like this. What would you tell them?

[00:25:11]Yes, Aki, you're right. Any platform handling communication data should actually be held to the highest standard. And that's why we've sought independent verification. And that's why I mentioned those ISO standards earlier.

[00:25:25]So I mentioned we're we're basically certified under ISO 27001 for information security management, which means that there's clarity in terms of the controls we've put in place to make sure that we we handle customer information and data with the highest standards. And as I said earlier, we don't sell our customers' data at all.

[00:25:48]Under no circumstances do we do that.

[00:25:51]The permissions that you have on your phone are really for us to be able to render the service and to make it effective. And so everything that you've given us as permissions and we've obviously listed those permissions as well as you download the app is really for us to to render the service in the best way possible.

[00:26:10]Which then talks to the ISO 9001 quality management, which ensures that we have accuracy, validity, and completeness of data that to make sure that we handle all your all your data with the highest quality standards and with the highest processes quality standards in terms of process as well and governance. And then also we're ISO 22301 accredited, which means that in situations of disaster, we have business continuity. We can ensure that we operate and we're able to deliver the service.

[00:26:49]So it is not a claim. We are third party audited on an annual basis and so we subject ourselves that to that process on an annual basis. So at the end of the day, we do what we need to do to make sure that the app runs very well with the highest standards.

[00:27:09]But this is important for us to highlight that, you know, we need to make sure that the problem at hand is being solved in the most efficient manner. And so we want to make sure that ultimately customers are able to trust the app that we we we use or rather that they use the app in a trusted manner. And that ultimately they're able to trust any unverified calls that comes to their to their phone to their number to their phones. Yeah.

[00:27:38]Fantastic. Mzobel the director of market development at Truecaller. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of What's Next. It was most informative.

[00:27:49]Thank you, Aki, and it's such a pleasure to be here. And lastly, to all your listeners, do give us a try. Download Truecaller and if you like it, even try premium.

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