The True Cost of Following Jesus | Prime Culture Podcast EP: 116

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]Hey, you're listening to the Prime Culture podcast. This Prime Culture is for the dreamers, the schemers, and the believers. We're here to introduce a whole new generation to the abundant life. We're here for the prime of our lives.

[00:00:22]Welcome back to the Prime Culture podcast where we confess the word and so does US HR. We just found out that there's a throwback R&B concert coming to the Sunb.

[00:00:37]>> Yeah.

[00:00:37]>> Let's go, man. And I don't know, man. If you see somebody that looks like me and Pastor Diana, >> it's not us >> dirty dancing. It wasn't us.

[00:00:45]>> Wow.

[00:00:47]Welcome to Young Adults Ministry, fam.

[00:00:49]It's all >> Somebody just fell off the treadmill.

[00:00:52]>> Hey, bro. He said dirty dancing. He said, "If you see me if you see me scamming If you see me scamming with somebody that looks like that's that was my generation, bro, coping a quick M real quick." You know what I'm saying?

[00:01:03]Like, let's go, baby.

[00:01:04]>> Somebody just missed a step on the stair climber.

[00:01:06]>> Just for real. Hit their face, >> twisted their ankle.

[00:01:10]>> Um, I don't know whether or not that'll make it to the pod, but welcome, >> welcome, >> welcome back. Jesus is king. The Holy Ghost >> reigns >> reigns and rules our hearts >> in your heart.

[00:01:20]>> Yeah, man. 100%. Y'all good?

[00:01:22]>> Good.

[00:01:23]>> I love y'all. Y'all are doing amazing.

[00:01:25]Thank you for saying it back. Hey, Pastor Filipe taught our staff chapel today.

[00:01:29]>> No, I >> and I was so proud of you.

[00:01:32]>> Were you?

[00:01:33]>> 100%.

[00:01:34]>> You did or you didn't? Cuz you seem confused.

[00:01:36]>> Well, I was in a conversation with Pastor Jimmy. So, he brought me a conversation. So, the conversation, it was very It was very, very good.

[00:01:41]>> Good. And it's a combo that I want to have I think on the pod for sure at we had it at culture con I think a variation of it but it's it's a it's it's a beautiful perspective on >> worship give us give us a nutshell like like the nutshell you can't you know you mean >> a cashew just one cashew >> that is like a hard thing to say >> snapshot say say what matters >> what we talked about there well we just talked about worship from the perspective of being a disciple and um for worship to not be incomplete by our incomplete understanding of Christ. Yep.

[00:02:16]>> So having a better understanding of Christ leads to a better engagement with his presence >> for sure.

[00:02:20]>> And it leads to a better experience with his presence and it leads to a better uh continuous relationship with him. So for sure and I talked a little about my testimony and how it kind of that journey kind of took me on where I'm at now. And that's kind of what we did. But that's cool.

[00:02:35]>> Yeah. I hope it was helpful. I was very nervous cuz Pastor Charles was in the room. So >> you're good. I was like, "Lord, help me."

[00:02:42]>> No, it was it was it was fantastic, man.

[00:02:44]I think um to to the point of this episode, the fact that there's a correlation between worship and disciplehip.

[00:02:52]>> Um because I think there's I think there's there's a varying understanding of the spectrum of the Christian life and what Christian history has been over the years, right? Old Testament, there was singing and dancing, this the timberalss and the harp and the symbols and the trumpets.

[00:03:10]>> And then you get into New Testament worship and and >> um the communal gathering where you don't hear as much of what worship is what is in terms of praising.

[00:03:22]>> Yeah.

[00:03:22]>> Um but I think it's just a valuable perspective to have. And um with all of it though, I think at the core at the core of that thought is is this thought of disciplehip though, >> right? Like >> because worship really is driven by my devotion as a disciple, right? And my devotion to walk the path of Christ and walk the way of Christ. And I think sometimes what what what you said I thought was brilliant was like, man, you you we call worship what we call worship really is just emotional response sometimes. And we rely on emotion and we rely on man that's my jam. Like when you sing that song, that's my jam. You know what I'm saying? And it's just like people are just like >> or they're mad cuz you didn't sing their song.

[00:04:03]>> Or hey, what's the song that you get requested the most right now?

[00:04:07]>> Holy Place.

[00:04:09]And um >> that's Chloe's favorite song.

[00:04:12]>> Holy Place.

[00:04:13]>> Mhm.

[00:04:14]>> I think Holy Place. And um um I know a name.

[00:04:18]>> I know a name. Yeah, that one's yours, too. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:04:22]>> What's your favorite song of all time for worship? I don't mean to turn this into a worship interview, but I just think it's cool.

[00:04:29]>> I There's a song right now that I'm really loving. We're going to sing it tonight, but it's called One More Day, and I love that song, but it's not I don't have a favorite song.

[00:04:37]>> You know what I love in in my generation?

[00:04:40]>> No. One More Day. One more day. You're you're redeeming it. Cuz there was a song called One More Night, and it was just like, >> "Oh my gosh."

[00:04:47]>> Hey, I didn't Amen.

[00:04:49]>> Better is one day >> in your court >> than one night over there. Come on, somebody. We be preaching on this podcast. I need someone to say amen.

[00:04:56]>> Amen.

[00:04:57]>> I'm preaching better than you saying amen. That's a That's a >> What's your favorite worship song?

[00:05:03]>> Um right now or of all time?

[00:05:07]>> Of all time.

[00:05:08]>> Of all time.

[00:05:09]>> Um >> I think that's hard to do. I think that's hard to say, >> man. Of all time. But but something that takes you in every time. Right now it's like all my life you've been >> God I'm just grateful.

[00:05:21]>> I'm just grateful. You know what's crazy is that like I could not get it right forever and I was like and I'm just thankful and my Bailey like bro grateful.

[00:05:28]>> Am I grateful bro? Leave me alone. It's the same thing blocking my praise to Jesus.

[00:05:34]>> That's you're doing >> right now. That's my jam right now.

[00:05:37]Yeah. For sure. Um our prayer is is bro.

[00:05:41]>> I really like >> Okay. Low self-esteem. Just say oh man that's very kind. Pray stop. I can't tell sometimes when you're joking or not.

[00:05:47]>> You know what you say? This is what you say. This is what you say. Like, man, I pray you like all him. Like, >> glory to God.

[00:05:54]>> All him. All him. Bro, he didn't write the song. You wrote the song. Take take some of the shine.

[00:05:59]>> I like No one like the Lord.

[00:06:00]>> I know.

[00:06:01]>> I can totally like run with that one.

[00:06:04]>> No one like the Lord. It's a banger.

[00:06:05]>> I love that one.

[00:06:06]>> Hey, can we can we put a a little Prime Culture podcast playlist right here? I'm just wearing a metric right here. It's going to be in the I'm playing, but we'll maybe we'll put it in some of these songs cuz there might be people for real. There might be people who are like listening or watching and like, "Bro, I don't know what you're talking about."

[00:06:23]>> Yeah.

[00:06:24]>> What's What's our prayer out?

[00:06:26]>> Mhm.

[00:06:27]>> Holy Place is not.

[00:06:28]>> Holy Place is not even.

[00:06:29]>> Why, bro? Why you gatekeeping?

[00:06:31]>> Uh cuz it's coming out pretty soon.

[00:06:33]>> Okay, let's go.

[00:06:34]>> We had this conversation already.

[00:06:35]>> Did we? I don't like the answer.

[00:06:37]>> I don't like the answer. I don't like the answer, and I was hoping the answer would change. Oh, >> okay. You know which what what in the in the in the frame of that thought I don't like the answer and I was hoping you would change.

[00:06:49]>> We get disciplehip all wrong.

[00:06:52]>> Let's jump to our point right now.

[00:06:54]>> No, but but um I do think we get disciplehip all wrong, but I want to close the loop right now. People are like, "Bro, I'm so annoyed at Cruz's ADD right now, bro. I'm so annoyed at him."

[00:07:04]First of all, shut up. And second of all, it's cloudy outside, so >> we're in the middle. You just told people on YouTube to shut up. I'm sorry.

[00:07:11]I love you for real. Um, what's your favorite worship song?

[00:07:15]>> I I >> No one like the Lord.

[00:07:16]>> Well, for now, for I thought you were going to name a song that I've never heard of in my life.

[00:07:20]>> Yeah. Well, all my all my other songs are my favorite.

[00:07:24]>> Never would have made it.

[00:07:26]>> I love that song.

[00:07:27]>> I have a lot of songs.

[00:07:30]>> You've heard that song?

[00:07:35]>> I'm wiser.

[00:07:36]>> Yeah, bro. Marvin Sap.

[00:07:38]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:39]>> Marvin Sap. Man, that's that's >> He just got remarried.

[00:07:42]>> Oh, did he?

[00:07:42]>> Because that was um after his wife died.

[00:07:45]>> No way.

[00:07:46]>> That was a song.

[00:07:46]>> That was a song that got him through.

[00:07:48]>> Mhm.

[00:07:48]>> That's crazy. That's a true story.

[00:07:50]>> Yeah. And so he just got remarried, >> bro. That song is a song that I could hear like anytime.

[00:07:54]>> Yeah.

[00:07:55]>> Oh, bro.

[00:07:55]>> That blesses me.

[00:07:56]>> Do you know how much aura you have right now, bro? Do >> you be aura farming son right now?

[00:08:01]That's how you know I have a middle school right there. I have no idea. I thought, bro, as a as a as a Christian pastor and communicator of the gospel, to me, aura is actually like uh new age stuff. And I want to rebuke it.

[00:08:17]>> But then I heard I heard my daughter be like, "Dad, you're a I was like, you better you better you better say Jesus is Lord right now. Say it three times."

[00:08:24]>> You know, now speak in tongues. Let's go.

[00:08:26]>> Um >> but uh Willie McDow, Spirit Break Out.

[00:08:30]That one's going to get me every single time. 5 seconds.

[00:08:34]I'm there. I'm done. Bethl did it, didn't he? Mhm.

[00:08:37]>> All right. We're down.

[00:08:39]>> We're like in a deep dive right now.

[00:08:40]People are like, "Bro, what are y'all talking about, bro?"

[00:08:42]>> Yeah. Let's tell Let's tell people what we're talking about today.

[00:08:44]>> Yeah.

[00:08:45]>> Hey, we talked about this in our in our staff meeting today, though, which I thought was dope. I'm going to go listen to it tonight. Was Hill Song United Live in Miami. That album, I think it's like 2014 or >> Yeah, I can't even remember.

[00:08:57]>> Or maybe before 14. That right there, if you go listen to it, is probably one of the best worship nights ever captured, I think.

[00:09:07]>> Yeah, >> for sure.

[00:09:08]>> No clue. Okay.

[00:09:09]>> Yeah, it's awesome.

[00:09:11]>> Okay. Wow. I trust you.

[00:09:13]>> Yeah.

[00:09:14]>> Wow.

[00:09:14]>> What songs were they?

[00:09:16]>> Um, >> it's like a It's a culmination of all the greatest hits in one Worship Night.

[00:09:21]>> That's cool.

[00:09:22]>> But it's where they bust out with like the enemy has been defeated.

[00:09:28]That's a good running song, too.

[00:09:29]>> So, we lift our voice in victory. Going to make your praise.

[00:09:34]>> He's always going to finish. He's like God with a voice in the middle like it has to get done.

[00:09:40]>> Yeah, man. Um, speaking of which, I don't like your answer, but hey. No. So, Felipe, hey, you that's what I want, man. Like, I can't. You just need to say preach, baby. Preach.

[00:09:51]And that's it. Like, that's all I can Pastor Cruz always is he's always sending me things like videos online where he says like let me let me be a blessing to the people of God.

[00:10:01]>> Bro, you won't let me on the team, homie. Let me in, bro. Let God use me, dog. Let God use me.

[00:10:08]>> I can't remember what I told you last time.

[00:10:09]>> Here, I'll tell you what you told me.

[00:10:10]Except you do kind of sing, bro, except you don't need rhythm or pitch.

[00:10:14]>> And as in it's just a little more study and just >> Yeah. commentary help.

[00:10:18]>> Oh, man. You know what's here? Okay. So, like for sure this is the segue into into the thought. I think that a lot of times um we get discouraged from our commitment to Jesus because we don't get to do what we thought we were called or would prefer to do. And I thought, you sent me a text this week, yesterday, you sent me a text that I thought was so thoughtprovoking, um, about the about the concept of what disciplehip is. And it took me to down down really a train of thought and a stream of thinking that I arrived at a pretty strong here's what I'm going to say. I'm going to say observation. It might be revelation for real on the concept of salvation. M >> um >> I can't wait.

[00:11:03]>> And so we're shooting this podcast the Tuesday before April culture night. So if I don't let it out in the pod right now, I'm for sure going to put it out in um >> You're going to let it out?

[00:11:14]>> Culture night.

[00:11:14]>> Thank you. That's awesome.

[00:11:15]>> But so hey, so set us up set us up with the observation you made. That way we can get into the conversation. Well, I was I was saying on on Sunday morning church and just the thought occurred to me um of just the I've been I'm doing a lot of life with this with with young adults right now and the the term disciplehip comes along and all of that and I was just wondering um the idea Well, I I sent you the thought cuz I don't want to my own thoughts.

[00:11:40]>> It's all good.

[00:11:40]>> Um but I just told you I went like I I sent Cruz like a whole Bible.

[00:11:46]>> No, you went bro you spammed me for sure in the best way. It was incredible.

[00:11:50]>> I text him in the morning. I was like, "Um, is making disciples the same as getting people saved?"

[00:11:56]>> Uh, I think that's a good question to ask. Can unsaved people have perfect church attendance?

[00:12:00]>> I asked that.

[00:12:01]>> And then I put coming up next on the Prime podcast.

[00:12:05]And then I said, um, we need to find a proper place in God's wise and loving design for disciplehip.

[00:12:10]>> Yeah.

[00:12:11]>> Am I a disciple or am I just coming to church? Am I a disciple? Am I making disciples or I'm just hanging out? Um, and I just put, "Am I am I a disciple or am I just an SOSer?" Meaning, I'm just always sosing God >> asking for help. And I was just saying making disciples is is a call for everyone. I was just brain dumping on Cruz, but it's a call for everyone. It's a commission for the whole church.

[00:12:34]Christ told us to make disciples heal of all nations.

[00:12:36]>> Matthew 2019.

[00:12:37]>> Not not just pastors. So, we're getting people to pray the prayer. It's incomplete.

[00:12:43]>> Job's not done.

[00:12:44]>> Yep. Um, and I was and I was just it's just thoughtprovoking because um, to me the the idea of I guess I'm just seeing it a lot. I'm seeing young adults come to church and people that I love come to church and then there's like sometimes I see a gap and when when they respond to the Lord Jesus and then they say yes and then they go home and then they still go back to the same place. Mhm.

[00:13:07]>> And um how how difficult it was for me and for them at the time at the time now >> to kind of like bring both worlds together like my current life and then what Christ wants me to live to pull that together and to me that pulling together that process of uh transformation regeneration your new creation that is discip that's literally disciplehip following Christ.

[00:13:28]>> Yeah.

[00:13:28]>> Um so I was just telling Cruz like >> I think we should talk about it because I do think >> I mean I don't know where you where you want to start but I do think there's a difference. Um, I do think you can be saved, but I do think it's incomplete if you're not dis if you're not walking with Christ. Christ, by the way, being a disciple is simply following the master.

[00:13:47]>> Right.

[00:13:48]>> Right. Following Christ. That's what we mean by that. We do not mean like that you have like a pastor speaking into your life.

[00:13:54]>> If we can if we can start here, if we if we can start here just fundamentally, what is disciplehip? What does it mean >> biblically, specifically New Testament?

[00:14:04]Because disciple is not exclusively a Christian word.

[00:14:07]>> Correct.

[00:14:08]>> Right.

[00:14:09]>> So what does it mean biblically New Testament perspective to be a disciple of Christ?

[00:14:14]>> So a couple of things like wherever you guys want to kind of like lean in, let's jump in. But the first emergence of the word disciple was Jesus meeting the ones he called and he said, >> "Hey, drop your nets and follow me and I'll make you fishers of men." Mhm.

[00:14:34]>> Right. So what he's doing is he's doing twofold.

[00:14:37]>> I'm going to make you a disciple by teaching you how to be a disciple.

[00:14:41]>> Right.

[00:14:41]>> Right.

[00:14:42]>> Which then I think there's I think there's a proof positive and I think there's a um I think there's a correlative right in this thought that disciples make disciples. Right. Right.

[00:14:52]How do I know I'm walking in disciplehip? Have you created other disciples >> or are you just always hungry for like disciple me, disciple me, disciple me?

[00:15:01]Or are you just getting fat?

[00:15:03]>> Oh, shoot.

[00:15:06]>> Yeah.

[00:15:07]>> Good grief.

[00:15:08]>> Yeah. Go ahead.

[00:15:11]>> You know, like, so, so, so, first of all, disciplehip is the dropping of one thing and the picking up of another thing.

[00:15:20]>> I know where you're >> Does that make sense? Right. So while I understand your your concept of the or your your your >> proposition of the merging of the two worlds, I don't believe that. I don't believe that that% that's necessarily right.

[00:15:37]>> You drop one world, you pick up the other. You have to% I mean that's the way of Christ. I take off old, I put on new.

[00:15:43]>> But I think that's the tension of young adults. That's what it feels like to a young adult.

[00:15:46]>> They don't know how to drop it.

[00:15:48]>> We're about to end this podcast with one sentence, >> right? 100% >> stop trying to bring both worlds together. Let go of that one and pick up the new one. But they don't know how yet.

[00:15:58]>> You can you cannot have dual citizenship.

[00:16:00]>> You cannot have two masters.

[00:16:02]>> Andrew Fong, you can't have dual citizenship. That's a word from God for your life.

[00:16:06]>> Wow.

[00:16:08]>> Teasing a >> um No, but but like >> you're 100% right. You're 100% right.

[00:16:14]>> Right. So So the scripture would say this. What would what fellowship, right?

[00:16:20]What kind of harmony can light have with darkness? What kind of fellowship does death have with life? What kind of fellowship does a son have with an orphan? Do you know what I mean? Now, that's not to say that there isn't going to be a process of regeneration, right?

[00:16:36]>> I think that's a key word is process.

[00:16:39]>> Abs 100%. I I love that you said that, but like let's let's just lean into the the fallacy of dual citizenship. Like let's lean into that, >> right? So Christ in his ministry constantly teaches John, I think it's 18:37 if I'm not mistaken. Don't quote me on it. That's what comes into my mind. You are in the world, >> but you are not >> of the world. Right? And so he says, just as I'm not of the world, they're not of the world. He says, so like make them one even as you and I are one. So the way of disciplehip literally be becomes I become undone with one thing and I become one with a new thing.

[00:17:16]>> Citizen, >> right? That's that's literally I'm undone from the old thing. I become one with the new thing. And in the context of Christian disciplehip, I become undone from the old life, the old practices, and I become one with Christ.

[00:17:31]I think we talk about this um or I think we we don't say this enough. Tell me if this makes sense to you guys. I was I was pondering this the other day. I think we too much say Jesus Christ is in me.

[00:17:42]>> But it's not Christ in me. It's I'm in Christ the new creation. We think Christ in me new creation. It's like no I'm in Christ. I'm immersed. I am completely assimilated and I I I just you know like I just disappear. I disappear. I disappear into Christ.

[00:18:02]>> You're no longer cucumber. You're a whole pickle.

[00:18:05]>> Well, that's that's a big idea, right?

[00:18:06]Like because because so what Diana's talking about is is the pickling process. You take a cucumber, put it in the brine, right? And what's out? with what it's immersed in gets into it and it fundamentally changes. Like if you think about pickling, it's it's one of the most beautiful snapshots of the gospel. You have to be and baptism to be honest with you, >> right?

[00:18:25]>> Baptism in original language in the Vulgate Greek actually points towards pickles pickling like you you you get immersed in a brine and the thing that you're immersed in permeates every aspect of your being >> who you are and you're completely changed.

[00:18:39]>> Yeah.

[00:18:40]>> Come out different, >> right? You know, so I do think I do think that's a great handle as as you guys are listening to the thought of disciplehip. Disciplehip is the taking off of one thing, the putting on of another thing.

[00:18:52]>> Yeah.

[00:18:52]>> I used to be Lord of my life. I take off the crown and I put the crown on Christ.

[00:18:58]Now he's Lord of my life. That's disciplehip.

[00:19:01]>> Amen. I think I mean you blessed my life because um it gives language to so much to so many conversations of I think sometimes we feel the wrestle because we're trying to keep both at the same time >> and I I don't know how many people that touch but I know it touched a lot of people listening to this right now.

[00:19:17]>> Jesus Jesus said it this way. You can't serve two masters, >> right?

[00:19:21]>> Inevitably you're going to you're going to not not only are they going to be mad at you, he said you're going to hate one of them >> inevitably. Which is strong language, >> right? Because you think about this. I Man, this is awesome. I I never thought about it until right now. I always thought, man, you end you end up hating the Lord >> inevitably when you try to when you when you're trying to play church and play both sides and you're you're one foot in, one foot out, right?

[00:19:44]>> Um but it's also proof positive. The Lord is saying, "If you're going to serve me, you're going to hate the world."

[00:19:50]>> Yeah.

[00:19:50]>> You're going to hate the construct of the world. You're going to hate your old life.

[00:19:54]>> Yeah.

[00:19:55]>> Sheesh.

[00:19:56]You think you think um young adults well I feel like in our lives with disciplehip what's helpful um is like once you get the revelation that okay I have to let go of the old knife and submerge myself into this okay but how how do I do this right I've never done this maybe my family's never done it and I'm the first one um I feel what's been helpful is walking along somebody that can help you >> which is disciplehip >> exactly which is seeing somebody else that you know none of us are perfect.

[00:20:30]But if you could get in if you have a messy situation and your pastor or your leader can get in with you and not get messed up along with you, man, that's such a beautiful image of how you can show Christ in in that mess, you know, like >> not even not even not even showing Christ. It's it's revealing Christ in your narrative and in your story. I love what you said, right? like in companionship. Eugene Peterson wrote this book years ago. It's a beautiful book. It's a great read. It's a long read, but it's a beautiful book. And the name of the book is Disciplehip. That's the name of the book. And the subtext and the subtitle is long obedience in the same direction.

[00:21:12]>> Right? Disciplehip is long obedience in the same direction. So in that so in the construct of that of that thought, it's long obedience. What can you assume about obedience? Obedience means someone else is calling the shots.

[00:21:26]>> So I'm committed to the long term of having someone else call the shots in my life.

[00:21:31]>> Yeah.

[00:21:32]>> So do you think that's different than mentorship?

[00:21:34]>> Yes. Absolutely.

[00:21:36]>> Yeah. And I think what Crew said is is is very very important is that some people think this and I and I'm going to say some people think this because I used to think this. I used to think that disciplehip was a something that I received.

[00:21:52]But I think disciplehip is an ongoing thing that produces at the same time.

[00:21:56]For example, as I'm following Christ and I think I text you this is like everything produced after its own kind.

[00:22:03]We talk about this all the time in church, right? So if if I'm following Christ and I'm following what he desires and he's calling the shots, by nature, I will make disciples >> just by following him. Mhm.

[00:22:16]>> Does that make sense? So, I do think some people diminish discip disciplehip into just like I just need a mentor. And I think it's part of it, but I think it's incomplete >> because I think other people have discipled me that are not here.

[00:22:28]>> Yeah.

[00:22:28]>> Right. I agree.

[00:22:29]>> I think I listen to people. I read on people. Awesome >> without even being alive.

[00:22:36]>> Yeah.

[00:22:36]>> Well, it's it's it it comes with a disposition of submission. Yes. And I'm I'm going to allow you whether it's in person via book like Toer I mean CS Lewis DL Moody RNT Wright RT Kendall I'm just like if if you want to know books I've read for disciplehip all of those are authors Awtoer is probably one of the best that will just now you got to check your you got to check your feelings you got to have thick skin because he comes at it but I love I love your thought Diana because the difference between mentorship and disciplehip ship is I think mentorship assumes this position and this posture that I'm aware of what I need and and I'm coming to you because I I want you to give me what I'm saying I need >> right it's it's the posture mentorship is the posture of the the young rich ruler >> right >> the rich young ruler the rich young ruler came to Jesus and said good teacher he didn't say lord >> and that's the difference >> that's the difference >> right that like I don't I don't need a lesson I need life from you Right. And he said, "What do I need to do to be more perfect?"

[00:23:42]>> Right?

[00:23:43]>> I've already I've already kept the law.

[00:23:45]>> I honor my mother and father. I observe the Sabbath.

[00:23:48]>> Yeah. It's a different heart posture, >> right? It 100%. Right. Because And so, how does Jesus challenge him? Well, first of all, he says, "Why do you say I'm good? There's only one that's good."

[00:23:57]Right? What's he doing immediately? He's flipping the paradigm of First of all, you don't have the ability to call something good. Do you understand that you are a created thing?

[00:24:06]>> Yeah.

[00:24:07]>> Yeah.

[00:24:08]you have no reason to be this confident, right? Like um and I think that mentorship I I'm I'm choosing and I'm setting the terms, >> right?

[00:24:19]>> Jesus says, "Look, >> you've said well, you've kept the law, kept the commandments." Great.

[00:24:24]>> Um sell everything you have, >> right?

[00:24:28]>> Give it give the money to the poor and follow me. What did Jesus do? He removed the total narrative of autonomy >> from that rich young ruler. And the Bible says that the rich young ruler went away offended >> and sad for he had many things.

[00:24:44]>> He's no no >> no for real.

[00:24:46]>> And look, I I I love this statement. I was praying I was praying on this a couple days ago. It was very vivid in my time of prayer. The gospel is free but not cheap.

[00:24:55]>> Yeah.

[00:24:56]>> It'll cost you something.

[00:24:57]>> The gospel is free but not cheap. I obviously I was pondering it through the lenses of resurrection Sunday, right?

[00:25:03]But now as as I'm thinking about it now, it the cost of the gospel is disciplehip.

[00:25:11]>> It the gospel is free, but it's going to cost me my will, >> which is the picking up of your cross% >> and the death of self.

[00:25:18]>> That's it right there.

[00:25:19]>> The death of self.

[00:25:20]>> And that never goes away. No matter how old you are, >> right?

[00:25:24]>> So if you are in your 20s and you think, "Oh, it's okay. I'll get there when I'm 30." Like, no. You're going to keep dying to yourself till you're gone to eternity in the the next life.

[00:25:34]>> Yeah.

[00:25:35]>> Yeah.

[00:25:35]>> You know, the Bible says that um that when we when we go to heaven or in >> Okay. It doesn't say when we go to heaven, we're going to hear well done, good and faithful servant.

[00:25:45]>> We pray that the Lord that that's what the Lord says. We say I'm real time correcting my theology because the Bible does not say that.

[00:25:53]>> It's Matthew 25. It's said of the the the the the good servant that was faithful with the talents he was given.

[00:26:00]Right?

[00:26:00]>> So good and faithful servant. I think about I think about the thought of faithfulness. This is something that that I've shared before with with with us that faithfulness is a return to commitment >> to the original agreement. I recommmit.

[00:26:16]I come back and I commit myself to the original thing I agreed to. Right? And as I'm just kind of processing the thoughts for culture tonight, we're preaching on repentance, right? I thought, man, repentance is literally the act of faithfulness, >> right? Because I need to repent. The moment of repentance, it's it's different than remorse and regret.

[00:26:36]>> Um, you know, repentance is ah, I missed it. Let me come back >> to what I agreed to.

[00:26:42]>> To what I agreed to.

[00:26:43]>> Yeah.

[00:26:44]>> Let me come back to what I agreed to.

[00:26:46]Disciplehip is the vehicle in which repentance is given to us. When someone outside of me, outside of my thoughts, outside of my um my justifications, right? Because we can talk ourselves into anything or talk ourselves out of anything. Someone who is discipling me and has I've I've given myself, you know, submission to and accountability to, they're able to speak into me and say, "Hey, this is wrong.

[00:27:11]>> You need to get this right side up. We got we got that's not that is not in line with God's loving and wise plan and designed for your life. In that moment, I have a decision to make. Do I return to the agreement that I made? Am I committed to the agreement I made to be submitted to this person that's discipling me?

[00:27:30]>> Right.

[00:27:31]>> Right. Because and tell me what you guys think about this. Often times the Holy Spirit will be the greatest disciper.

[00:27:37]>> Yeah.

[00:27:38]>> Right.

[00:27:39]>> Yeah. I guess I guess what I what I really feel led to say right now is that disciplehip looks it has multiple different methods 100%.

[00:27:46]>> And I think we get caught up in one method. I think we we could say I'm not being discipled because I don't have someone directly speaking to my life right now.

[00:27:53]>> Can I just tell you I've never told you this but maybe I have. I don't know. But I prayed for Cruz.

[00:27:59]>> Like when when Cruz was not here, I didn't have someone speaking to my life.

[00:28:04]I had Pastor Jared, but it was different.

[00:28:06]>> Um we were in complete different place.

[00:28:08]I was not as close to pastor Jared as I am now. And at the time I just needed somebody to just come along me and Cruz is an answer prayer. But I did I was I cannot sit and say that I was not being discipled those years that Pastor Cruz wasn't here. Does that make sense?

[00:28:20]>> Absolutely.

[00:28:21]>> I think that's a good point. Uh when we were at another church, I didn't realize I was being discipled at the time until we came out of that church. And um our our first lady, our our pastor's wife, she never sat down and and was like, "Oh, you need to do it like this and you need to, you know, talk to people like that." But I watched her. I watched her serve people. I watched her hug people.

[00:28:42]I watched her hug me. I felt the love that she gave me every single time she saw me. And I never forgot that. That changed me and how I interacted and loved people. But I never even got the chance to tell her because I didn't realize that that was happening to me until we left. You know what's crazy about that is until you were saying that and you were saying that but I never thought of the power of disciplehip in the process of imitation.

[00:29:08]>> Yeah.

[00:29:09]>> Like Paul discipled and he said imitate me.

[00:29:13]>> Imitate me as I imitate Christ.

[00:29:15]>> Yeah. Follow me as follow Christ.

[00:29:16]>> And what happens is Oh man. Okay. Listen y'all as you're listening to this and as you're watching this, some of y'all that are I I know you're watching and listening. I've I've I've probably had this conversation with you or I've resisted going into relationship with you because what you wanted was a professor or a parent.

[00:29:34]>> M >> you didn't want disciplehip >> because >> you wanted a caregiver.

[00:29:38]>> You you wanted Yeah. You wanted me to be a step Oh man, this is terrible. I'm not going to say it that way. But you know, you want you wanted you wanted someone to be a professor like explain everything. And it's like dude, sometimes I don't have time to explain.

[00:29:50]Just imitate what I'm doing and watch the fruit.

[00:29:52]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:53]>> You know what I mean? Like and I think there's like I I don't know that you can ever be an an innovator or an original until you've imitated. Well, >> that's so good.

[00:30:03]>> im imitated the right thing. Imitated the right imitate the right >> the firstborn from the dead kind of thing. Does that make sense?

[00:30:09]>> Absolutely.

[00:30:10]>> I do think it's important to also mention that when you imitate it feels not legit for somebody who's being discipled. It feels like you're being again you're not and if you have an issue with pride it won't feel good. You know what? That's that that's absolutely funny cuz we all think we all think we're so original and unique, which you are fearfully and wonderfully made.

[00:30:28]Amen. Psalm 139. But at the same time, you're also very predictable. I'm very predictable.

[00:30:33]>> And there are things in my life, I'll tell you right now that one one of the greatest disciplers in my life, you guys have heard me talk about him all the time, is Pastor Perry Kernney, right?

[00:30:40]Like he'll call me and I'll be like, "Hey, man." Like, or I'll call him, I'll say, "Hey, pastor, I'm just kind of processing through this, this, and this." And he goes, "Cruz, you know what that is? It's this, and this. I've known you for almost 20 years, Cruz. You know what that is." And I'll be like, >> "You're right. You're right." You know, and I'm just like, "Man, you're right.

[00:30:54]Like the more things change, more things change, the more they stay the same." I am.

[00:30:58]>> It's crazy cuz we forget.

[00:30:59]>> No, dude. You know, for real, for real.

[00:31:01]And I do think I do think that there is a healthy disposition and a healthy self-esteem. We're like, "Yes, you are original and yes, you are great and yes, you are unique, but at the same time, the scripture says it this way. There is no sin that is so uncommon to man."

[00:31:15]>> Deuteronomy.

[00:31:16]>> Right. Right. And it also says it in Corinthians, right? where where Paul Paul is saying like God has not put more in you that you can bear okayness and there there there is there is no sin that is uncommon to man essentially what he's saying is we all have this predictable sinful nature and that and he said but the Lord has given us a way out of it so it's not talking about a particular sin that that is a thing oh my god this is just me but he won't put more on me than he can than I can bear what he's saying is the sinful nature that's at work in all of us makes us wildly predictable >> and we all have the same answer Jesus Christ that's been the way out right So what I'm saying to say with that is in that process, the pattern of reconciliation to the Lord, the pattern of redemption, the pattern of regeneration, the pattern of of sanctification and walking in sincere sincere fellowship and disciplehip and accountability and submission to the Lord is going to look very familiar to all of us.

[00:32:09]>> Yes. And I do think disciplehip um if you're in that that boat in that season that you're trying to understand it requires a hunger because if you're if you're hungry and you're a student, you're going to learn from anybody.

[00:32:21]>> Yeah. But you can be hungry for the wrong thing though. And that's why the disciplehip that you're getting is not enough cuz it's not what you want.

[00:32:27]>> If you're hungry for attention, >> right? Well, >> you're not going to get what you want.

[00:32:30]>> If you're hungry to get ahead, >> it is not going.

[00:32:34]We're talking about sanctification.

[00:32:36]Anytime you're going to you're going to be in disciplehip, it's death to to yourself.

[00:32:40]>> If you're hungry for attention, if you're hungry for ahead, if you're hungry for affirmation, >> you're going to get disappointed.

[00:32:46]>> If you're hungry for access, >> you're going to get disappointed.

[00:32:51]>> Yeah, >> that's a good word, bro. Yeah, >> that's a good word.

[00:32:53]>> And I think it's important to do that, to mention that because at the end of the day, imitation should not be unattractive to you as a disciple of Jesus Christ because that's exactly what you should be doing, imitating Jesus Christ. You know what's crazy to me, bro, as you guys are talking, man? Like, I'm thinking about what Paul was doing because we look at Paul, we're like, "Oh my gosh, I need a Paul in my life."

[00:33:11]Right? Like, I've prayed that prayer before. Like, when I was a younger, younger leader, like, "Oh, I need a Paul in my life." Bro, you know, Paul didn't have a cell phone.

[00:33:18]You know, you know, Paul didn't have email.

[00:33:20]>> Yeah.

[00:33:21]>> You know, Paul didn't have social media.

[00:33:23]You know how Paul discipled? He wrote a letter, bro. One time. You're a That's awesome to think about it this way, >> bro. You want a Paul?

[00:33:35]>> He said the same thing to everybody.

[00:33:37]>> Hello. He wrote, bro, this dude wrote a letter.

[00:33:39]>> He didn't write everybody from the churches a personal letter >> and discipled the entire church with a letter.

[00:33:46]>> Now, that's not to say he didn't have relationships. I understand. But he had different relationship relationships in different cities. He had one or two guys that traveled with him all the time.

[00:33:57]Let's push pause there. not on the notes or on the road map, but there's a difference between Can we talk about this for a second? Can we talk about the difference between a disciplehip relationship and a covenant relationship?

[00:34:08]>> Cuz those are two very different things.

[00:34:10]>> Yeah.

[00:34:11]>> 100%.

[00:34:12]>> Right. There's there's there's tons of guys that I disciple, which can we Okay, I'm going to talk about a bunch of different things, but can we just speak to like I I don't disciple women.

[00:34:21]>> Correct.

[00:34:22]>> Right. And you don't disciple men.

[00:34:24]>> Right.

[00:34:24]>> Yeah.

[00:34:24]>> Right. Like how can I disciple you? I have I I don't have the estrogen you have. I don't have the same anatomy. I don't have the same thinking. I don't have the same neurological neurocognitive structure. I I will do you a disservice. I will try to turn you into a man.

[00:34:38]>> Mhm.

[00:34:39]>> Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:34:39]>> Yeah.

[00:34:40]>> Or I'll end up being like you don't need a daddy.

[00:34:43]>> Yeah.

[00:34:43]>> You know what I'm saying?

[00:34:44]>> Like what you do and I pray that the Lord brings you fathers, but that's different than someone who's like, "Man, speaking to me, hold me accountable as a woman. Hold me accountable." Right? So, I think that's a I think that's a big deal. Um, yeah. But anyway, I think I think in that process, man, like there's this there's this thing for me where um I used to I used to want tons of time. I used to want tons of access. I used to want tons of just this this interaction, but like I think about like what we just said like dude like like in the first century Paul was like just giving you wisdom. Now he had relationships that were covenantal, >> right? And I think that's a totally different thing. my relationships with people that I'm discipling um and the people that I'm I'm I'm in covenant with. Can we speak about that a little bit? What that looks like?

[00:35:30]>> Well, let's let's close the loop on I think we should close the loop on disciplehip. And I think we should close it by saying what the objective of disciplehip is because I think it's different than the one of a covenant relationship.

[00:35:40]>> And I think that's why some people can get hurt when they're being discipled, but there's no covenant relationship.

[00:35:45]Again, Paul would go months without talking to people, perhaps without seeing them. He would send a letter and then he would see him from time to time and he would tell them, "I long to see you." But people weren't weren't depressed, right? Perhaps or they weren't like waiting and being like, "Paul, you're not around for us." Why?

[00:36:00]Because they understood the whole purpose of disciplehip. The whole purpose of disciplehip is to get you to follow Jesus Christ, to keep you in his way, to remind you, to realign you, to keep you uh becoming like the master.

[00:36:12]Does that make sense? That's the whole point. So, no matter what that method was, sometimes the method of Paul was to show up personally and preach. Sometimes it was Paul would would stay up late and would spend like he would just eat with people and go to the late nights uh late at night hours talking to people about Jesus. Sometimes he would literally preach. Sometimes he would write a letter. Sometimes he would send somebody to say something in his behalf. All of that was disciplehip everybody. And I think in in this time in this New Testament church we're living in right now, we haven't we could be having an incomplete view of disciplehip if we only diminish it to one thing. And you could be missing on so much wisdom around you. You could be missing on so many relationships around you who are indeed trying to disciple you, point you to Christ, take you to Christ, and then keep you with Christ. Absolutely.

[00:37:00]>> I think that is in a nutshell. I think that's the difference between well, that's to me that's the whole purpose of disciplehip that you follow the master.

[00:37:08]Awesome. Follow me. Uh that's what Paul said. Follow me as I follow Christ. He didn't just say follow me, >> right?

[00:37:13]>> He said follow me as I follow Christ.

[00:37:14]We're all going to the same place. We're all trying to imitate the same man, >> right?

[00:37:18]>> Cool. That's the purpose of disciplehip.

[00:37:20]A covenant relationship, however, is different >> and it varies and it has time. It depends on personalities. It depends on season.

[00:37:29]>> It has agreed upon values and um it takes patience and and it takes agreement on both parties.

[00:37:36]>> Yeah. Well, I think I think if we if we can just speak to it a little more practically, right? Or maybe just specifically. Um, so I think about, so I think about like Paul, just keep keep it in the context of Paul. So Paul had guys that he was discipling. John Mark, Barnabas, >> right? Uh, Silas, right? Um, those guys were he was he were he was discipling.

[00:37:56]But of all of them, there was one guy who just was like, "Hey, that's Paul's guy.

[00:38:01]>> It was Timothy."

[00:38:02]>> Yeah. Timothy was his guy. Um, and there's there was this this there was just this this this tying and this bonding that Paul had to Timothy. You know, Paul felt like he was a father.

[00:38:13]He's the only one that Paul that that Paul would say. Timothy was the only one that Paul would say, Timothy, my son in the faith, >> right? And so there was just this there was just this this unity. There was this this >> drawing that Paul had towards him. It was a nudge of the spirit. So, I think about I think about you know guys in my life that both I'm in covenant with, they're in covenant with me. I think about peers um because I have friends that I'm in covenant with.

[00:38:42]>> I have um peers who are different like we're in ministry but we're in covenant with each other.

[00:38:49]>> Um I have proteges. I think that's a good word to say that we're not the same person, >> right? But I'm very committed to to your development and um and and I think that that relationship is very very very different. I think you can disciple without private or intimate access.

[00:39:08]>> Mhm.

[00:39:09]>> Right. Look, I'll say this. You Diana's my witness. The first probably 10 years of my relationship with Pastor Perry, how like I would even complain to you. I like bro like I like I don't know anything about him.

[00:39:21]>> You don't for and we worked at the same church. Like we served at the same church. We were on staff at the same church.

[00:39:26]Why does he know our bank account?

[00:39:28]>> But that question reveals what you're after. What you just said.

[00:39:31]>> Absolutely.

[00:39:33]>> What's funny that Diana says, "Why does he know our bank account?" Is cuz like one of the places that he I I guess he mentored No, he fathered me really, right? Was like helping me get my money right. And he really said this. He goes, "If you want me to help me, if you want me to help you, I need access to everything. I need all your passwords."

[00:39:48]I gave him all my passwords, bro. So I told Ann, I said, "Look, hey, I gave him I gave him all the login to to all of our bank accounts. I gave him login like like he had access to everything, bro.

[00:39:57]And I know that sounds extreme, but I wanted to be different.

[00:40:00]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:01]>> You know, >> and that was covenant.

[00:40:02]>> That that was that was it became covenant.

[00:40:05]>> It became covenant. There was a moment right before we transitioned away, which was about 10 years deep, right before we transitioned into a new ministry assignment where he came and he said, "Hey, listen. The Lord's going to take you places."

[00:40:16]>> Mhm. And the Lord's going to put you on platforms that are different than platforms I've stood on, >> but I want you to understand that there may be some things that I can I can't speak into the dynamics of those details, but what you will have in me is you'll always have someone who will love you, who will cover you, who will pray for you, who will encourage you, who will correct you. So, I may not be able to coach you in certain dynamics of where God is taking you and what I've seen in you and on you and what the Lord's going to do through you and Diana, but I but I'm in your corner.

[00:40:49]>> Yeah.

[00:40:50]>> Right. And so, our relationship now, I refuse to say we're friends. Like, for real, cuz that's pastor, you know? Um, but it's very different. It's it's covenant, right? He said this to me.

[00:41:00]Maybe this will make sense, right? He said this to me. He said right after Culture Con uh 2023, it was our first Culture Con and he it was him and I and um in in one of our classrooms and it was just, you know, no one else was there. And he said, "I just want you to know how proud I am of you." Right? And he said, "Cruz, there's a lot of guys that claim me."

[00:41:21]>> He goes, "But I want you to know I don't claim them."

[00:41:24]>> He goes, "But I claim you."

[00:41:27]>> And I think that's crazy.

[00:41:29]>> Right? Because like I can claim Bishop TD Jake Jakes.

[00:41:32]>> He's discipled me.

[00:41:34]>> Yeah.

[00:41:34]>> But he doesn't know who I am, >> right?

[00:41:36]>> You know what I'm saying? Like there's no covenant there.

[00:41:38]>> I think it's when the other person claims you too and just says, "Hey, come here.

[00:41:42]>> We're we're going to enter a new relationship, a different relationship."

[00:41:45]>> And I never felt entitled to it, >> you know, >> and and I think, well, can we just say that that both are important? Both are something you should have in your life.

[00:41:54]But I do think you're doing a disservice to your disciplehip if you only want it to look like covenant relationship.

[00:42:01]Meaning like I I think can I just say I just want to defend pastors like the the pastor cannot have covenant relationships with the entire church.

[00:42:07]>> Right.

[00:42:08]>> And you might be accusing your pastor of not having disciplehip in your church because he doesn't have a one-on-one with you every week. That is impossible for him to do. It was impossible for Moses to do it and his father-in-law rebuked him and he said, "Distribute it, bro. We need to meet with everyone, >> right? Can we make elders? Can we make all these other leaders to help us out?

[00:42:26]>> Can we can we have a moment of honesty?

[00:42:27]We're all pastors here. Like when the church is like they don't have one-on- ones, bro. Like there are weeks I don't have one-on-one with her.

[00:42:34]>> Like I'm not going to talk about you and Lisa, right? Like but like for real. And I'm like and I'm this is other than my covenant with the Lord. This is the most important covenant I have in my life.

[00:42:44]>> Yeah.

[00:42:44]>> And there there are times where it's just like man, we haven't we haven't done one we haven't had one-on-one in a minute.

[00:42:49]>> Yeah.

[00:42:50]>> You know what I'm saying? And I think and I think that brings a good point is uh there might be people listening to this and they love the conversation disciplehip and maybe they are like yeah yeah I'm down to be discipled anyway whatever method and they do have a longing for a covenant relationship. I would say that it's it's okay to wait.

[00:43:07]It's okay to pray for it. But also I I do think you should question your motives >> because then I think you might be missing out on a person that perhaps you could have a covenant relationship that just doesn't look look the way you want them to look. Oh, you just hit the nail on the head.

[00:43:21]>> Does that make sense? Like, I just want to be disciples. I I'm going to be honest with you. I have had guys that I have told like I just I appreciate you sharing with me that you want to be in a covenant relationship. I just don't I don't have the bandwidth to this commitment and I'm not going to I'm going to let you down. I'm just I I'm committed to so many people already. I'm going to point you in the right direction. I'm going point you I think you should explore this relationship.

[00:43:44]Perhaps this relationship this person shared with me that they would be, you know, I try to connect people and that's happened before. But me doing that does not mean that I'm not a I'm not a disciple >> and that it doesn't mean that I don't care about you either. Like for for me and you know man I'm I'm just just talking to our prime people bro like I I think this is a great a great posture to have in your life in your mind in your expectations. It's maturity man where it's like look I'm not going to come in here and superimpose my desire on you.

[00:44:15]>> What what's a what what what are you willing to give me? Right? Because chances are the person or the the the the Yeah. Yeah. the person that you're pursuing, you're probably pursuing them because they have a degree of success.

[00:44:25]They have a degree of accomplishment.

[00:44:27]>> Can I tell you, they got that because they they're busy >> and they have a lot of responsibility and that's why you admire them and the last thing they need is one more thing to worry about, >> right? So, I want to dude I want to be the kind of even at this age now, right?

[00:44:40]To like to my leadership, to pastor Charles, I I I don't want to be someone that when he sees me come, he's like, "Oh man, this guy's going to suck the life out of me, bro." You know what I mean? Or or or that when I walk away, he's going to feel like crap because I just guilted him about what he's not doing.

[00:44:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:54]>> You know what I'm saying? Like for me, it's like I mean, you've been y'all have been in meetings. It's like if now I'm going to do something. I'm going to try to rile him up. Every time I'm around Pastor Charles, I'm going to try to pull something out of him. And every once in a while, he'll be like, "Okay." And he just walks away, but then every once in a while, >> bro, we get him going and three hours later like, "Dude, that was >> gives us the honor. That was the best."

[00:45:13]But I think I think really the point I love the point you made, Felipe, that We get disappointed because the disciplehip doesn't look like what we want it to look like or it's not coming from the person that we want, right? Or watch or the covenant that we want isn't coming from the person. When you said that, I thought about the life of David, >> right?

[00:45:32]>> David was discipled by Samuel constantly.

[00:45:36]>> Yeah.

[00:45:37]>> He was framed in leadership by a bad leader named Saul.

[00:45:42]>> Right. I there's a there's this there's this book, I forgot who wrote it, but it's called The Tale of Three Kings. And just a quick little shout out, if you're dealing with any type of church hurt or church disappointment, read a tale of three kings. It'll bless you. But you can be framed by bad leaders. And um there's a script there's a there's a line in the book, I think it's I I don't I don't remember the author. I tell the three kings, but there's a line in the book that said Saul threw spears with the intent to kill David, >> but all he was doing was killing the Saul that lived within David.

[00:46:15]>> Right? So watch, think about this. In in in a in a typical context, someone who's like, "Hey man, I've got a ministry call on my life. I want the king to to disciple me. I want to be in covenant with the king."

[00:46:28]>> But he didn't get the king, >> right?

[00:46:30]>> You know who he got was someone who had no title.

[00:46:32]>> Yeah.

[00:46:32]>> No clout. The greatest covenant he had was Jonathan.

[00:46:36]>> Yeah.

[00:46:36]>> And bro, Jonathan doesn't even even ever like ascend to the throne. But dude, David didn't know this. Or maybe actually if if I remember the story correctly, >> David I think David may have known it because of Samuel that the that the Oh yeah. When he got anointed king, >> right, dude like he knew Jonathan couldn't do anything for him.

[00:46:56]>> Mhm.

[00:46:57]>> But he still said, "I'm tied to you."

[00:47:00]>> And he wept when Jonathan died. And his greatest covenant was with somebody who had no clout.

[00:47:05]>> No. No.

[00:47:06]>> Wasn't going any like but he said, "But you're what God sent me." And the the scripture says that that Jonathan and David loved each other's souls. They loved each other with with each other's souls.

[00:47:17]>> Does that make sense?

[00:47:18]>> Yeah. And I think that's something that we should be looking for the right relationship and we should do it by faith and not just look at Does that make sense? I think I think there are good signs. For example, you have you dress like me, whatever. Sure. You know, we have similar likes. Sure. I'm not saying that. But I I I mean I can't tell you the amount of times I have I have had relationships in my young journey with people that look nothing like me, like nothing that I like, but they've been a blessing to my life. And they have like Pastor Horgees who in heaven.

[00:47:49]>> Um he blessed my life. He's the reason why I'm in this worship team. He's the reason why I'm a worship pastor because he decided to say even though you speak Spanish and you don't want to go to the youth in English, you need to go there and I'm going to tell and you you're going to go I'm not going to receive you in this service. You need to go over there.

[00:48:05]>> And he did that for me. And I remember just chatting with him. I remember every Sunday cuz this is what my parents and I lived in Mexico. We came to the US. We started going to church. My parents would go to the Spanish service and then I would go to the English one. And I just didn't know how to speak very well at the time. And I remember going to go look for Pastor Gorge every single time.

[00:48:24]>> And uh that's somebody that looked nothing like me. He was way older than me.

[00:48:27]>> But you know what's incredible in that story, bro? Is the heart of of and the and really the heart and humility of him as someone who is discipling you.

[00:48:37]>> I'm not going to give you what you think you want because I see something so much bigger and broader in you.

[00:48:42]>> Yeah. I think that's one of the >> Wow. whether you're in covenant um or in those type of relationships or or just even as pastors, I think it's our responsibility to look at people and call out what they don't see in themselves and position them in certain places. You know, there's certain people that I wish I had all the time in the world for everybody. But you know what?

[00:49:02]I know I'm going to do you a disservice.

[00:49:03]So, I'm going to get one of my leaders to bless you cuz you know what? She doesn't have kids and she doesn't have a full-time job. So, she can bless you.

[00:49:10]So, it's not me passing you off. It's actually me putting you in a better position so the Lord can speak to you the way you need to be spoken to.

[00:49:17]>> You know what resonates with me? I think for us to get to that place, it has to be honor.

[00:49:21]>> Absolutely.

[00:49:21]>> In disciplehip. Meaning I think you you'll immediately walk into pain perhaps or being hurt by the church or whatever if you don't do it with honor.

[00:49:29]Meaning I honor and I trust that when you send me away, you're not sending me away. That you actually want to help me.

[00:49:36]And for that there's honor. I'm I'm also going to honor you your time. Meaning anytime you give me pastor, I'll take it. You give me five minutes on the hallway, I'll get him. I'll ask you a question. I'll make myself available to you. I'll honor you. I won't turn that into like, well, he he doesn't really care. He only cares about Does that make sense? I do think there needs to be more honor in our relationships of disciplehip and covenant in the church and even uh young adults who are hungry because I believe we have young adults just as a church in America who are hungry for relationship. Like, please help me. Yeah, I know I'm not doing it right. And I think there also needs to be a conversation of like, okay, let's do it with honor. Let's do it with trust. Let's do it with understanding that the whole purpose of disciplehip is for you to follow Jesus. And then covenant relationship is different. Both should be something you have in your life. But don't be Yeah. Don't mix them up. Don't um one more want more than the other. I think it's just incomplete when it's one or the other. Um, and I think by default, if we are indeed being discipled, by default, we will also want to make available what was available to us to other people. I want to do this for you. Hey, you want to go get coffee?

[00:50:44]Hey, I see you. Does that make sense?

[00:50:46]>> I think that's how you know. How do I know I'm being discipled? If you have a desire to disciple, >> that's beautiful, bro. I think that's a beautiful way to see it.

[00:50:53]>> That's beautiful. To end our time together, I heard Rich Wilkerson Jr. say it this way in terms of leadership, but I think it's it's very true of disciplehip. when when someone is discipling you because that's been the case in my life as I've been discipled >> is this that when you're being discipled by someone they have the they have the permission >> and the and the access into your life to lead you somewhere you didn't think know you wanted to go but when you get there you thank them for it >> I'm so I'm so grateful I'm >> I'm so grateful you brought me this way oh my I didn't even know this was possible right >> thank you you know.

[00:51:31]>> Yeah. What a good talk.

[00:51:33]>> Good talk.

[00:51:33]>> Praise the Lord. Hey, well, praise God.

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[00:52:38]And um >> yeah, >> until next time. We love y'all.

[00:52:43]Go be a disciple. That was the most awkward ending ever. I'm sorry. I love y'all so much. Peace. Bye.