The Real Reason I Struggle to Retire (It’s Not Money)

[00:00:00]I think I would probably tell my younger self to enjoy the vacations more with the kids when they're young and put the phone down, put the email down from work, that sort of thing.

[00:00:14]Because one thing that age teaches us is that time goes very fast and the older you get the faster it goes. There's little things in life, little moments that are fleeting and if you let them go, and I've I'm guilty of this, I let too many of them go cuz I was pushing so hard for that that outcome that I I was looking for. And looking back on it, I wish I had enjoyed some of those moments more. Then it's not about taking the vacations in Europe with the kids or not that we did all that, but or vacations to Yellowstone or, you know, all these things. It's just going for a walk, you know, it's the simple things in life that you have to capture, I think. This series Road to Retirement is designed to hear from people like you. You're going to hear from real people who want to retire early and they're sharing what's worked well for them so far. How close are they? Some people you're going to listen to are a month out. Other people are 10 years out. So there's a wide range of people and all of these different people are going to help you retire early from them kindly sharing their story. Now if you haven't seen it already, I've another series here called Retirement Reality where people who have already retired will share, "Here's what worked. Here's what's actually been more difficult than I thought." and so much more. Today's episode is a road to retirement. So if you're on your way to retirement, this episode might resonate even more. Enjoy.

[00:01:36]My guest today does not need to work.

[00:01:38]Financially he's in a good position, but it's not easy to just step away because you can, especially when you made a commitment to the company that you're going to be a part of a major project.

[00:01:48]Now is that the only reason he's not retiring? Not quite and we talk about that. And he is so honest and articulate and kind in the sense that he's talking about how it's hard to prioritize himself and how he hopefully doesn't feel alone in this. And he mentioned on multiple occasions, I really hope that other people resonate with this episode because I know there's a lot of people out there feeling like me. I know I'm not alone and I want to help other people understand that they're not alone. So, I really hope you take this to heart and enjoy this episode.

[00:02:19]Scott, thank you for joining an episode of Road to Retirement. I'm excited because we've been coordinating this for a little bit. Finally, we made the calendar work and I ask all my guests the same question first. What are you most excited to spend your time doing in retirement? If you had to pick one word, what would you say?

[00:02:38]I think having lunch on Tuesday.

[00:02:42]I haven't had that response yet. I like that. Okay, so now you have unlimited words. Why lunch on Tuesday?

[00:02:48]>> Just because I don't get to. You know, I don't mind so busy with work. Lunch is completely uh you know, I get it if I can and I've just been a busy guy and just having an unencumbered lunch on Tuesday with a friend would be a glorious day.

[00:03:08]I love that. I don't I love that. Now, how often do you skip lunch and you can be honest?

[00:03:14]>> I don't skip it. I just generally eat it at my desk and uh that becomes, you know, its own bad thing cuz you don't you probably aren't eating as well as you should and things like that, but I try to use healthy as I can and but it's just uh you know, just busy guy and uh work is still there, very much there, believe me. Um I'm glad we're doing this on a Friday late afternoon for me because it gives me the opportunity to maybe sneak away for the hour we have here and and do this sort of thing, which was exciting for me because I've listened to you guys, you and James for a long time, among other YouTube retirement folks, and >> [snorts] >> uh it's just fun to do. But, if I had to sum up, what do I want to do in retirement? Lunch on Tuesday, you know?

[00:04:04]>> [laughter] >> I love that.

[00:04:05]>> That's a great place to great place to start.

[00:04:08]Now, Scott, how old are you today? I am 60 years old. I just turned 60 last month, so here I am.

[00:04:15]>> Oh, okay. Well, belated happy birthday.

[00:04:17]So, now we're talking about Every time someone says I'm excited to do one specific thing, I have 10 million follow-up questions. And my first is, if you're retiring, let's call it in the next few years, you obviously want to have lunch I mean, maybe on your own, maybe with a friend, but if you're retiring before 65, your friends might still be working. So, do you mind sharing a little bit just about your retirement timing? When are you thinking of retirement, and why?

[00:04:46]>> Well, it's I've been thinking of it uh gosh, for 30-some years. I've been planning for it, and knowing that the day would come.

[00:04:55]Um you're right. I've thought about that.

[00:04:58]I'd be the only one in my my peer group or my friend group that would be retired.

[00:05:03]That's not to say that I they're not far behind. A lot of folks my age are really thinking about it hard now, as you imagine.

[00:05:12]But, they you know, I have one person in my neighborhood that retired that's my age right now, and I'm you know, I know him well, and he would be a guy I'd say, "Let's go have lunch on Tuesday with." And he'd probably be available. So, that's a start. But, to your point, it's just one person, and retiring early, you kind of get that you know, you don't If you're the first kid on your block to retire, yeah, you everybody everyone else is just busy.

[00:05:42]So, it may be a little lonely, and you have to think of that.

[00:05:45]It's definitely part of the equation for me and thinking through my timing.

[00:05:51]But back to the question of timing, uh that's kind of variable. I'm I'm a senior executive in a in my company. I'm a leader and that there's some things we have to get done in the company that are very important and I wouldn't want to leave them in a lurch. Although I to be fair and I'll be upfront about it, I've been able to retire for three or four years.

[00:06:13]I just haven't.

[00:06:15]Uh knowing that there was about a five-year window here that they needed help and I didn't I love the people I work with. I love the people at the company. Um they need my help and it was something I kind of signed up to see through and it's a commitment I made and I'm sticking to my commitments. Um but there are days I I wish I could just say, "You know what? Here's two months notice, you know."

[00:06:40]But it it when you know you have enough to go and now unfortunately it's more than enough uh according to the software I use.

[00:06:51]Um it gives you it your mind shifts a little bit, you know, you and as I age I get a little bit closer that time frame and it it uh you it's not a money thing anymore. It's a I've committed myself to something bigger than myself and others are relying on me. I don't want to see them um I don't want to let them down.

[00:07:14]Um but take that aside, what else is there? You know, it's the question of what am I going to do? Who am I going to hang out with? That sort of thing. I like to cycle. Um I put about 4,500 mi on a year. I know I don't look like it, but I've been doing it since I was 19 and uh I'm slower than when I was 19, but I still get out and do it. Uh and I have tons of cycling buddies. So, but we go out at 5:00 in the morning. In fact, I I up 5:15 this morning on bicycle.

[00:07:43]I don't see that changing.

[00:07:45]And I will continue to do that and maintain and try to accelerate some healthy things when I retire. So, I think from that perspective, what I would do in retirement is have lunch on Tuesday and focus more and more on my health because your health span is far shorter than your life span and then that's something that we all have to face and you want to make sure there's some good years there for you when you work so hard to to earn them, if you will.

[00:08:13]So. You definitely do and there's a lot of directions we can take this, but I like what you brought up. Have you heard of my phrase recreational employment before?

[00:08:22]Yes. Yes, in fact >> You are a living, breathing, you know, person who is doing that where financially you shared, it's not even about the money. In fact, I have more than I need, but it's the fact that you're being admirable and making sure your team is well taken care of, but I am that weird advisor that sometimes says, "Okay, Scott, that's nice of you, but when are you going to prioritize you?" Do you feel like you working today doesn't let you live this dream life you can't wait to get to or are you like, "Well, to be honest, I'm not that miserable and I actually like helping my team." How do you think about that?

[00:08:55]My job is extremely stressful and when I say lunch on Tuesday, I mean it. I don't get that and it's not an option for me and I I would like to have that and there are days it takes a toll and to be fair, I never thought I'd I'd say this, but there you start to run out of steam at a certain point. Um, you know, it it takes it out of you and as you age, it gets harder.

[00:09:21]Um, I still enjoy the people I work with. I enjoy what I do to some degree.

[00:09:27]Uh, but I can see that the the light at the end of the tunnel is getting much brighter, you know.

[00:09:34]And uh, that that uh, gives you pause and you think about it.

[00:09:40]Like, every day that goes by is one less day and to do things I want to do. I For example, I'd like to spend 1 year just focusing on on even more cycling, even more weight training in the gym, eating healthy, um, doing all those things I know I need to do to to keep that health span up.

[00:10:00]And that's kind of you know, you've think I don't know, I'm sitting at my desk instead of doing those things, you know, it does get to you after a while and I I recreational, uh, work is is has a price. It has a price.

[00:10:18]You're explaining it very well, Scott, and I'm I'm curious. I have a lot of things I want to ask you, but I want to ask everyone who's watching right now, if you can tell us in the comments, what would you tell Scott? I'm curious because you're not alone, Scott. There's a lot of people who are currently working going, "Maybe I don't have to be here, but actually 1 more year while I'm in this high-earning position feels really good. One less year withdrawing from my portfolio. I don't have to pay for healthcare."

[00:10:43]And be totally honest with me, okay? I'm very transparent, as you know, and maybe I'm calling you out a little bit and you can tell me if I'm wrong. Is there a part of you that's secretly going, "Financially, it just it feels nice. I'm going to be honest. I know I could walk away, but it really's nice. I run those projections, they look a whole lot better every year I stay." Or are you truly going, "No, I'm doing it for the company. Yes, I want to focus on my health, but it's really for the team."

[00:11:09]That is a good way to think about it.

[00:11:13]Um, and I've had that in my head and I'm just scared of drawing down on the asset. I've spent a lifetime building that asset.

[00:11:22]Um, and work and and had a lot of deferred consumption because of the asset, you know?

[00:11:31]A a of deferred life, really, in general. Because of the asset. It's scary. It's scary. I've been on my own since I was 18 years old, and I went to college, put myself through, put myself through graduate school at night. Um worked hard. When everybody was out, all my friends and peers were out the bars doing happy hour, I was studying for my my MBA, you know.

[00:11:58]So, there's a lot of deferred life there, and you look at that number and you're like, that took a lot of doing, right?

[00:12:05]I'm scared to draw off that, and I will admit, I am scared to draw off of it.

[00:12:09]There's a little bit of that going on, for sure.

[00:12:12]Okay. If you weren't scared, that would be more weird, by the way. If you said, I have no worries at all, that would make me very uncomfortable as an advisor. And as a fellow MBA, I know what it's like missing those happy hours, by the way. So, I'm going to use your phrase throughout today's session, cuz this deferred life concept, I love.

[00:12:30]Because one of the things that's so fascinating to me about retirement planning is when to stop saving. And I share this example a lot, but obviously, ideally, we're perfect investors and perfect savers, but nobody's perfect.

[00:12:43]>> Mhm. And there becomes a point in life where if you have two, let's call it three million bucks, if you get a 10% return on three million, that's $300,000. That's significant. You can't put anything into your 401k to get close to that. So, it becomes a point where you saving doesn't really help that much. Does it help a little? Of course, compound interest, yadda yadda. But there becomes a point where it's all about prioritizing you. So, what I'm curious on, because you said you've been on your own since 18, put yourself through school, which big kudos to you.

[00:13:14]Who taught you about retirement planning at the beginning? Was it a mentor? How did you figure all this out?

[00:13:19]>> Well, it started with my grandfather. He He was a big investor, and he uh encouraged me, even at the age of 15, to buy stocks. And I did that. Uh small number, of course, you know, um at that time, but I saw what how successful he was just being an investor, saving for the future.

[00:13:41]Um that sort of thing. So, that developed the bug in me.

[00:13:45]When I graduated from high school, going to college, I was getting an an undergraduate business degree in finance and accounting.

[00:13:53]But, they had a specialized course. This is kind of brand new in the '80s, by the way.

[00:13:58]Kind of a new track they called wealth management. They they you could take a finance, just a kind of a minor, if you will, in wealth management. And all the courses were geared toward investments, uh insurance planning, um you know, wealth management concepts, right? So, I took that track as an elective kind of to fill out my degree.

[00:14:22]And so, I learned, you know, I learned at that age what compound interest was, you know, and and learned what you need to do for your future if you want to have something someday and and take care of yourself when you're older.

[00:14:35]So, that's where it was born. And my MBA's in corporate finance and accounting.

[00:14:40]So, I ended up of course I'm in a financial role now, a very senior one. I won't say what, but I'm I am the senior one.

[00:14:46]>> [laughter] >> And so, I would deal with numbers all day long, and I and I'm in the finance industry, too. So, I I see the stuff and live it for a living.

[00:14:57]Um not not like you guys do, of course.

[00:14:59]You're you're true to form, you're you're certified, you do it for a living. I'm I'm a corporate guy, right?

[00:15:05]I work a different type of career, but but as a hobby, it became my hobby. And that hobby was very focused on planning.

[00:15:15]And and I've been planning since day one. Pay myself first, cuz I know how much I I to pay myself first to get to a certain point.

[00:15:23]So, I always knew what the number needed to be at age 60 and what it what I needed to have at age 60 to make it all work.

[00:15:31]Um the good news is I exceeded that goal, but it it was only through deferred like deferred life, deferred consumption of you know [snorts] getting back to the psychology of the number and having to draw down on that, that's a tough nut to crack. I think that and to your point, who am I what am I going to do during the day? You know, you really need to define what that is. I've had good thoughts on that. I think I'd be okay, but it's still a little nervous. Um I'm nervous about it and and so drawing on your savings, what are you going to do with your time? Those things come up.

[00:16:10]Um even though you hit the number, when I was I remember being in my early 30s thinking, gosh, if I just get to that number, I can walk away from this, you know, I can go do what I want.

[00:16:21]And thinking that you fully would commit to that when you hit that number and you get to that age, whatever.

[00:16:27]Now I'm at that I've been there for three or four years and I haven't done it yet. And so it's a it's a tough one. It's a tough one.

[00:16:35]I love your honesty and Scott, we can feel it coming for you from you. So, I appreciate all of this. And to be honest, most people I think hit their number and go, okay, well, a little bit more would be helpful and then they're finally like, okay, this deferred life concept becomes very real. So, I'm curious.

[00:16:51]I'm not going to force you to retire, obviously, but just for hypothetical sake, if I said you're not allowed to go back to work tomorrow, but hypothetically your team was so grateful for everything you've done and they go, Scott, we're going to work triple overtime and we're going to figure out a way to get the project done. You don't go back to work on Monday.

[00:17:11]You're waking up at what time? You're going to cycle, who do you think you're going to hang out with? What do you think that day might look like? Well, probably starts out the same as if I were going to work. I would get up around 4:15 to 4:30, go ride bikes with my buddies that all meet at 5:00 to 5:15.

[00:17:29]We go ride 20 miles and come back, I make a good truck driver to kind of breakfast cuz I'm hungry after that, and just enjoy coffee and time, but the only difference is I'm not jumping in the shower right away to go to work, you know?

[00:17:47]From there, what do you do? Okay, well, I'd probably instead of doing the 20 miles, just extend it to 30 and come back, have that breakfast, a bigger one.

[00:17:57]And then perhaps then go to the gym and come back and make a good healthy lunch and then what? Then what? You know, I That's the thing is then what? Um I need some That is a good question.

[00:18:15]That is a good question. I've never posed that to myself.

[00:18:19]Um But now what's Monday afternoon look like, you know? That's the question.

[00:18:25]And I have a few words, maybe more than a few words, of encouragement, but I I think there's a myth that you have to have retirement figured out. Tonight someone came to me once who said, "Ari, financially I'm in a good spot to retire. Why can't I?" I go, "Because you probably heard someone tell you you should practice retirement." And they said, "Yeah, I have heard that." I go, "It's a lie. How could you practice it?

[00:18:45]You haven't done it yet. You've been working 30, 40 years." And so I told them to embrace being bored. When you're bored, you are going to have new ideas that come up. And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to map it out perfectly before you get there. And if you do that forever, you will work until you're 70. And if that's your goal, keep doing it. If it's not, then there's going to be a day where you're going to retire and you're not going to have it perfectly mapped out. And that's a time to be like a little kid again. I had someone once recently told me they said retirement is like being a kid with money. You truly can explore life in a way you otherwise could never have because you wouldn't have been allowed to. And so, I want to switch gears a little bit to talk about monthly spending and a few exercises that I love getting to do. The first is regarding if I give you a blank check. Scott, here's a blank check. How much would that need to say every month so that you could live comfortably in retirement?

[00:19:42]Uh I know my base expenses uh very intimately. I know exactly what I spend.

[00:19:47]I can tell you what I spend on my electric bill in August of 2008. I have it documented, you know, I have a budget that I have I keep track of.

[00:19:56]So, I know what the base expenses are. I first world problems, if I mention the number, it could sound very first world, beyond first world.

[00:20:05]But to be honest with you, I think if I were spending 25,000 a month, that would be good.

[00:20:12]Great. So, let's say 25,000. Pretend and I've done this exercise many times for those who've heard it. I said, "Scott, you don't get to spend 25,000. You have to spend 40,000 a month, 500,000 a year.

[00:20:23]And if you don't do it, by the way, >> [laughter] >> it does not get saved. It goes to your least favorite political party."

[00:20:30]>> Oh, wow.

[00:20:30]>> gets people talking, okay? So, this is how I open it up with people who are struggling to spend, okay? And I'm the first to say, "Don't spend for the sake of spending, okay? That's frivolous."

[00:20:40]But if I did say you had to spend 40,000 a month, what would you do?

[00:20:47]I think I would probably have a fantastic fishing trip every single month, you know.

[00:20:55]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. What does that trip look like? Where is it? Are you bringing friends?

[00:21:00]>> yeah. I'm I'm I'm bringing every month a friend with me, for sure.

[00:21:05]Probably in Canada, you know, in June to go get some good walleye and Alaska get some good salmon. Uh deep sea fishing in the Gulf of Mexico perhaps or wherever.

[00:21:16]Uh worldwide, you know, just that sort of thing. And more importantly, too, I'd definitely go to Europe and I would probably follow the Tour de France, you know, just follow it around. Wherever it goes, I go.

[00:21:30]And for a month and uh do stuff do stuff like that, you know, just dream stuff, bucket list stuff, for sure.

[00:21:37]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I love I love talking about this stuff because the truth is some people will tell me, "I'm uncomfortable paying for my friend on the trip. It's just weird. It's going to make the dynamic odd between friends."

[00:21:49]And other people get, "Well, if I don't do that, they're not going to come. So, I want to be with them and I'm paying for it and I'm going to tell them we're not going to make it weird." Do you have enough of a close relationship with the peer group that you could say, "Guys, you don't owe me anything. I would love to come and bring you on this trip."

[00:22:04]>> Oh, yeah, without question. Without question. And I guarantee I'll get some takers. So.

[00:22:10]Okay.

[00:22:11]>> Well, that means you've done a better job than you think ahead of retirement because many people tell me that thought of what I just shared makes them uncomfortable. I literally will see their shoulders rise, which is not happening with you. Now, one thing that I think it's so I mean, it gets a lot of hype for good reason, which is health care and how to think about the cost of it, which yes, it could be significant.

[00:22:33]Yes, it's different. And I make so many videos on Cobra and the marketplace and all these things and there becomes a point where I say, "Look, you can worry about it all you want, but it's just another cost." And if you plan for it well, you don't have to worry about it.

[00:22:45]Is health care factoring into your decision-making process at all? No, not really. I have that all documented. I've gone through the marketplace and documented how much it costs for my wife and I to get a policy that would be appropriate for what we need and you know, I've assumed no subsidies. Um so, I have the the max in there with all the co-pays assumed. Everything's there.

[00:23:07]It's in the model.

[00:23:09]Uh taken care of and um Yeah, so that really hasn't factored in with me. Although it makes me a little nervous. I mean, is it you know, what's healthcare going to look like in 5 years? Well, I guess in 5 years it won't matter for me, right?

[00:23:24]I'll be on Medicare, but but that bridging that gap does it it gives you a little pause for sure.

[00:23:31]Um it's a big number. It's a big number.

[00:23:34]It is. Yeah, it could be 25,000 easily a year. And there's people who will share a soundbite like you just shared and you may have just helped more people than you know, Scott, because people will not retire because of healthcare. They'll just hear that word and they've heard a the thought of not having it feels weird. Um I'm curious to talk about your wife for a moment. Now, if I went to your wife and I said, "How stressed is Scott really?" What do you think she would say?

[00:24:00]Really stressed. She would say, yeah, he he has a very stressful job and uh um he's probably closer to wanting to get retired than what he admits to.

[00:24:12]>> [laughter] >> And if I I like that. If I got to ask her one more question, the question I would want to ask her is if Scott didn't have to tell his company that he was retiring, he could just magically be retired and there'd be no difficult transition in any way. Do you think he retires sooner? What do you think she'd say to that?

[00:24:35]Um she knows that uh I would probably hang around to help. Cuz that's just how I roll. I I um I feel committed to it and I want to see it through and um there's some big things we want to get done and uh I'm I'm definitely a part of that and she knows that while I may have all the desire in the world to retire at the moment or or in a year or two or whatever, um what will keep me working is my commitment that I made a number of years, and so that's probably what she would say.

[00:25:14]And I think, by the way, that's in in a weird way kind of beautiful response, because the truth is, Scott, you're not the person who's going, "Oh my gosh, I hate going to work every day." There's certain days that are more difficult.

[00:25:27]Maybe you do want to cycle more or have a little bigger breakfast and not shower instantly, but I really do feel from you right now, and I bet everyone else does who's watching, that you know, it gives you a sense of purpose, which is a good thing, by the way.

[00:25:39]You have a commitment. You have a team.

[00:25:41]And when you retire, it's correct, you will not have those things to the same degree. It'll be different. So, I don't think you need to beat yourself up in any way, not that you are, but I do, you know, I tell my clients their best interest is what I want to have happen.

[00:25:55]So, if you enjoy working, great, keep working. But is there a way that you could start to do it a little bit more on your terms? I'm not saying you should do this, but I've had people who financially feel comfortable, say, "Hey, I'm not giving up on my commitment. I'm going to keep working, but I'm taking Fridays off every single week of the year." And if that's going to make you uncomfortable, let's have that conversation, but I really don't want to go. And most of the time they go, "Oh my gosh, if that's going to keep you here, wow, that would be so incredible. Is that something that could even be an option, or is there so much work it would just make the dynamic odd?"

[00:26:31]>> You know, that's a thought. I've had those thoughts, too. At some point, maybe in the near future, that could be an option. You know, there may be a need for uh there could be an option to make it more um variable, as opposed to this all-in kind of hours we have now, but it could be very optional in the future. And that that I think that time's not now, for sure, but there could I can see a scenario where that could play out. And I've considered that significantly, because it would be easier for me, a person like me probably, and I know myself and probably would agree at this point that it'd be easier to slide into it as opposed to just go yes.

[00:27:14]Cut cold turkey.

[00:27:16]Um I would agree.

[00:27:18]And I saw a beautiful thing happen, which is what really prompted this, where someone was financially in a fine spot to retire, and they told their company, and they did it in a very respectful way, they go, "Hey, I've been a diligent saver, I'm in a good position to retire. I don't have to be here."

[00:27:32]They they They didn't say it in a way of like, "I'm too good for you." None of that. It was, "I want to be here, I'm choosing to be here, but retirement's going to be difficult for me." They said it, and they said, "I'm going to ask for more days off, and if that's going to be a deal breaker for whatever reason, then I'm okay to go. But if you value me like you've shared you have, I would expect that you would honor the following."

[00:27:54]They set their own terms, they didn't ask It It was very like, "I'm doing this." But in a respectful way. And what happened that was the surprise is they said they felt so much more valued at work because they were like, "Oh my god, you really don't have to be here. You actually care about us more than we ever thought. Anytime that we can get with you, great." And guess what? They got paid less, and they loved it. They said they felt like a celebrity at work. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I've got to tell more people about this." So, it's something to consider, not from a hey, I'm so great, but hey, just so you all know, my commitment is here. If I'm paid less, but I work a little less, that's something that I want to do. So, I'd keep that in your back pocket. No, that that is a good suggestion. I I've toyed with that in my head, but I really haven't explored it. What that might look like.

[00:28:43]But I do see a scenario playing out where that may be something in the near future and it could be an option that would work for both parties nicely. Uh and in my case as I think you are you can see it, I probably need that transition. I need that that winding down if you will of it'd be it's it's like getting on an airplane if you're in I don't know Antarctica and then you just get on a plane and fall asleep and you wake up in Miami, you know? [laughter] I mean it's just that it'd be just completely whoa. Uh I I don't know that I would be able to handle that as well as a nice smooth transition out and and I think that's beautiful.

[00:29:26]Yeah, Scott, honestly, I think everyone needs it. They just don't get it. I think every person is meant to wind down into it, but for some people, you know, I've heard stories where there's a retirement party and nobody shows up.

[00:29:38]And I've heard other times where there's oh my gosh, I can't wait. I'm going to retire and it was better than they ever thought because it turns out, you know, there was a health condition that occurred and it was a a blessing in the end. So um one of the ways I like to end these shows is by asking you to talk to your younger self. And it can be emotional. It can be difficult. It can be weird. But before I do, I have one other question. And this is something I hope you you you've already been very honest and I think so impactful. So I appreciate everything here.

[00:30:08]But I'm curious.

[00:30:10]If I were to go to your and you're in a senior role, but let's say any other leader. It doesn't have to be above you, but any other leader. And and I were to say "What do you think Scott would be happiest doing in retirement?"

[00:30:25]Would they say cycling? Would they even know these hobbies? If I were to go deeper and say, "What do you think Scott deserves? Do you think he deserves his own retirement? Do you think it's time?

[00:30:37]What do you think co-workers would say?"

[00:30:40]Oh, know, a good question.

[00:30:42]Um I think they We all know each other's lives to some degree and I they all know that what I do, cycle and um They They know little bits and pieces about me like that. They would probably say, "Yeah, he's probably going to ride his bike a lot. In fact, he might even ride it across the United States." You know, they may even say that if he's going to retire. That may be what they would say, especially someone that really know me well. Um a handful of them would say that, I know.

[00:31:14]Um I think that's probably what they would say. You know, he's probably going to keep himself busy doing something active as much as he can.

[00:31:23]Uh well, you cannot and I'm a numbers guy like you. Like Scott, we could probably hang out in Excel all night and this is a Friday and we would both probably have a blast. And by the way, I'm not good at a lot of things. I'm good at Excel, okay? So like we [laughter] can have some fun. Now, the truth is and I've tried quantifying just for fun the impact of health when you retire early, which you cannot do perfectly on a spreadsheet. But it's one of those things you just truly can't quantify and it might be a blessing that, you know, I'm not saying this going to occur, but I've seen it before where awesome people like you say, "I'm sticking it out with the company." And then one more project comes up. Scott, could you just stick with us a little longer? By the way, we're happy to pay you this. We really do think you're amazing. And well, that was kind of tied to the last project. I do want to see it out. Now your spouse is going to Am I ever going to get some Scott time? So I do see these things occurring. So what I want to do is I'm going to shut the heck up myself for the next minute, 2 minutes, whatever you want. You get to talk to your younger self and you can give yourself kudos. You could be like, "Scott, remember when you were 15 and Grandpa was telling you about investing?

[00:32:31]Look, you have Look what you have." You can say, "You know what? I wish you didn't defer life as much and you put less into that 401k and more into the superhero account or you know, I wish you actually instead spent more.

[00:32:43]Whatever you want, you could be honest to the degree you're comfortable with because this is what's helping so many people get confidence and you're honestly doing more than you think. So, Scott, it's been a pleasure. We're going to round out after once again, I get to hear your response here, but I'm going to shut up for a second and give you the floor. Oh boy, that's a tough question.

[00:33:03]Um so much of my life has gone the way I've really wanted it to and worked hard to make and shape it. So, I think I would probably tell my younger self to enjoy the vacations more with the kids when they're young and and and put the phone down, put the email down from work, that sort of thing.

[00:33:27]Because one thing that age teaches us is that time goes very fast and the older you get, the faster it goes.

[00:33:35]There's little things in life, little moments that are fleeting and if you let them go and I've I'm I'm guilty of this.

[00:33:42]I let too many of them go cuz I was pushing so hard for that that outcome that I I was looking for.

[00:33:50]Maybe it's a function of just leaving home at 18 and not having a safety net and and having that always in the back of my mind and having grown up, you know, from 18 onward knowing that there was no safety net.

[00:34:05]That may have something to do with that, that there's a price to pay there and that price is slow down, enjoy the moments that you have because your kids are only five once, they're only six once, they're only seven once and that's it. And in my case, I have twins, so they were literally all my kids were five once, six once and seven once. They move through the same stage at the same instant. I went from empty nest to I went to full nest from full nest to empty nest in a nanosecond.

[00:34:37]And that was shock. And and looking back on it, I wish I had enjoyed some of those moments more. Then it's not about taking the vacations in Europe with the kids or not that we did all that, but or the vacations to Yellowstone or you know, all these things. It's just going for a walk, you know, it's the simple things in life that you have to capture.

[00:35:01]I think. That would be what I would tell my younger self.

[00:35:04]So articulate, so kind, you're so cool, Scott. I'm not supposed to have favorite guests, but let me just say that you are up there. And I'm so grateful that you shared this honest experience because there's so many people out there. And guys, please give Scott some love in the comments that go, "Scott, I'm just like you. I I'm I want to go into retirement on my own terms, but I've got these things holding me back at the same time.

[00:35:27]It's a good thing that I have this problem. And I have other first world problems. And there's something I'm going to I'm going to send you after, Scott. I think it's going to resonate.

[00:35:36]I think it was the founder of What was the company?

[00:35:39]I think it was the founder of I want to say Loom, which is a video software tool. And he sold the company for who knows how many hundreds of millions. And he talks about how it's the most lonely time of his life and how he wished he just stayed connected to his team longer because he found that it's when he had his his most joy. And how now it's been more difficult and he's honest about it.

[00:36:01]And there's other people that can't wait to retire. And everyone's different. And the fact that you've honestly shared your experience and what you're going through is awesome. I would love to do a follow-up episode in a few years once you are retired and be able to check in and see, okay, what's it been like?

[00:36:16]What's that transition actually look like? So if you're open to that, that'd be cool.

[00:36:20]>> I'd love to do it. That'd be fun.

[00:36:21]Awesome.

[00:36:22]Scott, thank you for tuning in to all of our content, both myself and James. We do it all so people like you can watch and get more confident even if financially you have a very strong background. And ultimately I hope we can do this again. I would love it. Love it.

[00:36:36]Thank you for the opportunity.