Mysticism- a Third Reply to Stefan Molyneux

[00:00:01][music] [music] hospital porters pride and dignity stop the new world order. Welcome to her pano TV and welcome to this another reply video to Stephan Mully you Mr. Mullenex himself. Yeah, how many reply videos have I done to Stephan Molyneu now? I've honestly lost I've lost track of them. I really have literally lost track of them. So many. Anyway, um I hope everyone's doing all right. Before we begin, I've got a little interlude for you. Um Sweeps Fox has sent me another little animation. I'm just going to show it to you now just to get you in the mood, warm you up, you people.

[00:01:11]And it's really really cool actually.

[00:01:12]Where was it? Yeah, here it is. This is going to make you laugh. It's actually a um it's silent. There's no a there's no there's no soundtrack on it, but it's like you if you watch my last video, the live stream I did about a paper mask, the live stream, you'll get it. You'll get it completely. [snorts] So, here we go. I'll just I'll just show it to you now. Let's just stop it so we get it to the beginning and I'll just put it on like large screen. There we go. Okay, guys. So, I'll just share screen. There we go. This is going to be funny. Thank you very much to Sweeps. I'll put it on that actually. Uh thank you very much to Sweeps for doing this. It's It's great.

[00:01:47]It really, really is. Here we go.

[00:02:04]Just having fun. Yeah, that's what we were doing.

[00:02:08]It's a party.

[00:02:13]Yeah.

[00:02:16]Very good. Thank you very much, sweeps, for that. That's great, mate. That's great. Yeah, that was absolutely brilliant. Um, [snorts] so yeah, we got another um reply to comments video from Stephan Moly. How about that? Yes, I've done so many I've lost count. But I haven't done uh reply videos to Stefan since last September. That was one of our bullies.

[00:02:36]And this is different. This is a third reply to him. Um, this is a third reply on the subject of mysticism. Now, I don't think I've Have I done any other third reply videos to Stefan Molyneu?

[00:02:48]I think maybe I did one about UFOs. I haven't looked it up. I've done so many videos I can't keep track of them. Um, but you know, I sometimes I sometimes one reply is not enough and I need to do more than one. And it depends what he talks about is whether I come back and whether I come back and do uh second, third, etc. replies to him. I don't think I've done a fourth reply yet on any subject. But um this does require this is a subject I've obviously done.

[00:03:12]Mysticism is a subject I've done two previous reply videos to Stefan Molyneu on. And um in this case I'm doing a I'm doing a third reply on this subject.

[00:03:23]Yeah. And I'm got Funny enough I haven't done a reply to Stefan since last September yet. I um the second reply to Stefan Moly on myth mysticism was actually in 2023. It was actually in September 2023.

[00:03:39]So, it's quite a while ago. So, it's been a while since he's brought up the subject of mysticism. Funny enough, believe it or not, I've got another I've got another reply video to Stephan Molyneu in pre-production right now.

[00:03:51]God, that sounds so pretentious, doesn't it? Pre-production. Who am I on? Mel Gibson. Um, I I'm planning one basically. I'm planning a I'm researching a a second reply video to Stefan on another subject. It's actually dolphins to give you a bit of a spoiler.

[00:04:04]I'm actually doing a second reply on the dolphins. Um, I did I've got a first one on dolphins previously.

[00:04:11]Now, in the course of this um video, I'm actually going to claim fair use on what I'm about to play. It is a segment of a Freedom Domain Radio podcast which he uh actually posted a few days ago.

[00:04:24]And once again, I'm faced with this dilemma. This is a dilemma that's very common. I talked about it when I did my little reply to Skeptic of the North, my little review of his series. And I'm in this situation again. The dilemma is this.

[00:04:36]Do I play the entire audio that I want to play and therefore risk breaching fair use guidelines of copyright?

[00:04:44]Alternatively, I could play less of it and just stick to small segments of it and then be accused you then be accused like they saying, well, why don't you know you're actually editing this playback to uh to disadvantage the person you're disagreeing with. That's the dilemma with Skeptic of the North.

[00:05:01]Obviously, I chose to I chose the former and um later on he turned against me because of it. But um Molly hasn't yet actually turned against me just yet. He um he he he doesn't seem to mind if he he probably does know about my videos.

[00:05:15]In fact, he's even used a couple of catchphrases of mine in his own production. So, I expect he does watch me. In which case, Stephan, thank you very much. Like, share, subscribe.

[00:05:24][laughter and snorts] Anyway, now um some of you I reckon some of you I know at least a couple of you who watch me also watch Molly and I got a feeling that some of you are going to guess that I was going to make this video very soon. How do I know that?

[00:05:41]Okay, the reason is because I've actually been discussing a little bit of one other video and then um a lot of a second video. And the second video is the one which I think a lot of you are going to predict that I'd make a video about and about this subject too. Uh the video is called it's FDR program 6,451.

[00:06:00]Goodness me he's made more videos than me. 6451 and the title is called do not [ __ ] with mysticism exit space. That's what the moment in fact the moment I saw that title long before I'd even heard the actual actual video. long before I'd heard the actual program. [snorts] Um, I thought, do that title means I'm going to be making a video replying to him. I know it. I know it. I know it.

[00:06:27][laughter] Yes, I am. Yes, indeed I am. Um, so yes, I am a bit predictable, aren't I?

[00:06:36]Anyway, but the other the other actual the first of all before before we get on to that one 6451, we're going to do deal with another one very a very brief clip from Free Domain Radio program uh 2735.

[00:06:50]This was quite an old one. I think it's back in 2015. This was actually broadcast. It's called Sexy and Imaginary Friends. Great title, isn't it? Great title. Anyway, I'll play a little bit of that before we begin. Um um yeah, I I think I should say that a lot of the points I make I think I've made before on the other two videos.

[00:07:12]Now, I haven't gone back and watched the other two videos, the other two reply to to Molyneu mysticism videos, but I got a feeling I'm going to repeat some of the points I made in those videos. And if I do, well, sorry, but you know, I'll try to I'll try to keep this original as I can. All right? So if you I don't if I don't don't I don't imagine any of you are going to mind. I don't imagine any of you going to mind. I may repeat some of the points I made. Okay. Right. First of all, as you know, as you all know, ladies and gentlemen, when I do my Stefan Moly reply videos, indeed reply videos to a couple of people, I have a little bumper audio.

[00:07:49]Now the bumper audio is a very very short audio tag which I play when when it appears on the soundtrack of the video that I'm listening to of the audio I'm listening to and I have edit it slightly I have edited it slightly for brevity just to just to point out um because just this is just when he goes completely off topic. Um, you hear this bumper audio that reminds me to stop.

[00:08:09]I've got I've got to actually interject some commentary at that point and I go to my notes and I made a list of all the different bumpers and the notes I'm going to make related to it because I haven't watched this before. I' I've listened to the the well it's not the entire show actually. It's only like the first segment of it. Um, in fact, even if you look at the the actual it actually says there's like timestamps in the show notes to it. So, you can find if you want to listen to the original with Stefan, you can find out exactly where that is. So, um, there's little bump there's little bumpers every every so often. You'll hear when you hear those bumpers, that means I go to my notes and I inject some commentary and make some notes about what I want to say. [snorts] And I try to I try to make these bumpers original and interesting and funny. And in this case, I have because we begin with the subject of imaginary friends. I have chosen a I've chosen a very very brief piece of audio from I think I don't know if is if is better. Um, if it's for if the the video I if if it's the movie that appeared in the cinema a couple years ago when I did a full roving review of it, but either that one or the other the other film Drop Deadad Fred is my is the best film ever made about imaginary friends except possibly Harvey. That's an old one with James Stewart. That's very good as well.

[00:09:24]But definitely Drop Deadad Fred is one of the best. It's certainly the most poignant. And uh I chose a little segment about in that. And um if you've not seen Drop Deadad Fred, it's a brilliant comedy film with Rick Male.

[00:09:37]And um it's it's a comedy, but it's also extremely sad. And as I said, if I did a little review of it once, when I explained, it's probably the saddest film I've ever seen as well. It's very funny. [snorts] But um it's it's only I think it's more sad for me than for most people because it's just particularly it particularly hit it tugs at my heartstrings in a way it probably wouldn't tug at other people's. I found it extremely sad, extremely emotional.

[00:10:00]Uh, very, very, very poignant indeed.

[00:10:03]But anyway, let's just play the bumper for you. I'll play the bumper and then we'll begin. So, uh, here we go. Let me just let me just, um, find the actual file I'm This is This is always the longest part of the film, isn't it? Here we go. Molly audio. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen. Oops. No, I don't want to change the title. I want to play it.

[00:10:23][screaming] [laughter] >> Check yourself. That is Rick Male. Rick Male plays the imaginary friend. I think I made two videos about this. And Phoebe Kates is his um is this girl when she's grown up, she starts encountering her old imaginary friend again. It's a bit like the film If [snorts] which is very again, if you haven't seen the film If, please do go and watch it. So that's the bumper. Now to give you a bit of background up, there's when this caller calls in, um Stephan almost actually kicks him because she says, "I recognize your voice. You're a troll." And eventually this this guy persuades him to stay. It persuades him to stay. Um and um they have what I think is a very interesting conversation. In fact, um Molly Molly actually seems a bit nicer than he normally does in this, I must say. Um I think there's lots of other people who've called in and have said similar things to Molly, and Molly has been like as [ __ ] with them as usual, you know.

[00:11:20]Um, or even like I said, I've made this complaint about him before. You know, he does he goes on these long scathing rants about people because they make a spelling mistake in the locals chat or something like that. And he he said something really horrible the other day.

[00:11:32]I was I don't I can't remember the program. It was actually I listened to it when I was on my way back from when I was on my way back from South Wales when I went to the Lighthouse Conference. Um this guy phone called in and he he just kept making these habit phrases, you know, saying, "Oh, to be honest, every he started every single thing he said with the words to be honest." And Stephan said, "Could you please not do that? That's really annoying." And the guy said, "I'm sorry. I'm autistic." I And he said, "I don't care." He said, "Please don't make excuses. It's not polite." And things like this. And I thought, "He's not making excuses. He's doing an explanation." And Stefan makes bloody Stefan has these habit phrases, too. We all do, don't we? We all have little habit phrases that we we little words or little little um you know little phrases little words little serious words and little sentences we say over and over again.

[00:12:19]All right. And they characterize us and Stefan says some Stephan sometimes does these things and they annoy me. I get annoyed when he keeps saying kibble. He he says the word kibble sometimes in a very very bad context. That annoys me.

[00:12:31]So, am I going to say Stephan, stop using that word kibble because it's an excuse and and and you're being impolite. No, of course not. Just shut up, Stefan. Anyway, but like I said in this particular video, he's a lot better. He's he comes across as much more pleasant in this video. But first of all, before we begin, I just got a very very brief segment I want to play which is which is relevant to this. It's relevant to what he says. Now, this is from program um this is a very very brief segment which I have edited slightly from program 2735.

[00:12:57]Uh first broadcast I think sometime in the 201s. I think it was 2014 or 2015.

[00:13:01]Um, and it just and the reason I bring this up because it is relevant to this more recent one, the one he broadcast just a couple of days ago. So, we shall begin.

[00:13:13][snorts] >> Uh, let's see. Does Izzy, sorry for that, but she seems to be the >> Izzy is Stephan's daughter, >> only healthy child in the world I've ever heard of, have or have had imaginary friends. For me, when I think about my childhood, it was always sort of natural.

[00:13:31]Um, reply to imaginary stories. And my caregivers, they tell [snorts] me some funny stories. So do I. Again, sorry for some of this word salad. No. Uh, Isabella has never had imaginary friends because she has real human contact. So, um, we we certainly role play, right? We roleplay stories uh, and all that. Um, so, but she's never had uh, imaginary friends. I believe that imaginary friends um they come out of isolation and loneliness and so she's not experienced that. So why would she have that?

[00:14:06]>> [ __ ] [clears throat] yourself.

[00:14:07]>> Okay. So that is Stephan Molly then referring to his own daughter is Isabella who I think she just turned 18 actually so she would have been like about she'd have been like like a pre-teen when this would broadcast came out. Um um Isabella doesn't have imaginary friends and Stephan says well as you just heard it's because because she has real people to talk to she doesn't need them and that um children who do have imaginary friends are essentially lonely. Now um there may be some truth in that. There may be some truth in the in this. So I just I'm just going to get something up which I didn't get up earlier on the browser because it's it's directly re relevant.

[00:14:51]Oh well Mike LOL.

[00:14:54]Okay. Right. Um there may be some truth to that. It could be that children who are are lonely or isolated um they do are more likely to be seen playing with imaginary friends.

[00:15:08]I suppose the question would be is in that case are the are the imaginary friends really imaginary?

[00:15:13]And this is something I bring up in the in my review of Drop Deadad Fred and the film Harvey. I did a written review of the film Harvey. Again, if you've not seen that, it's very very good. It's an old film from 1950, but it's really really good. It's excellent. Um, but I did a review of both those films and I asked that question. Well, are these imaginary friends really imaginary? And I do I can't do better than recommend this book. In fact, I discussed this book in my review of the film If Invisit by Mike Hallowell. It's just it's a is a second edition that's just been released by um 40 and Words 14 Worlds. Sorry, 14 Worlds. 14 Words is a podcast Invisids. I've got a copy of this book. Um the original, this is the original that came out. Um I think he self-published it, which is actually not Oops. Sorry. Um, this original is no longer in print, but it's, like I said, it's just been re-released in a new segment. Michael J. Hallel. Um, Michael J. Haloell. Um, I'm also very grateful to Mike personally because he Mike actually contacted me. I haven't spoken to Mike very much, but he contacted me many years ago when I was being when I was in the process of being dismissed from the hospital porting service and offered me a lot of advice and a lot of support. So, thank you very much to that, Mike. Um, that's a story I've never really told um before. So, what what I'm saying is that Stefan may be right up to a point about children it being essentially a symptom of loneliness, but the question then goes, well, is that psychological factor, does it have any bearing on whether the phenomenon itself is objective or just subjective? Is it literally imaginary?

[00:16:52]Or are the children actually perceiving something that is out there and real?

[00:16:57]That's the question. And Mike brings that question up in the book. It's a short book. You can read it. Um I can read it in a few hours, but it's it's packed with information. It really really is. And now we come on to Now we come on to the second this that's all I wanted to play. I just wanted to play that tiny little segment of um of 2735.

[00:17:17]Now we come on to FDR 6451, the more recent one that was broadcasted a couple of days ago.

[00:17:24]>> I mean, walking away from home doesn't put you in a cycle. Lots of people do that every day.

[00:17:28]>> Yeah. He, by the way, this guy has admitted he has mental problems and things like that. He did go into a bit of his background. He seems to be quite a troubled young chap, 20some.

[00:17:39]Um, think and and as you you're about to hear, he's he does have some problems.

[00:17:45]>> Yeah, it's kind of str it's like my family, they're pretty toxic. So, it's like if I try to like run away from home, my mom my mom might literally put magic spells on me to like bring me back. So >> your mom might put So do you believe that those magic spells are real?

[00:18:02][snorts] >> Some might be quite a bit more effective than others. Um you know it's kind of interesting like I have seen a ghost when I was six and yes my two older siblings also saw this ghost like [snorts] and like they ran faster than me that one time. So, like I know like there are like certain supernatural phenomena that's real.

[00:18:24]>> Oh, no. No, they're aren't.

[00:18:26]>> They are.

[00:18:27]>> No, no, they're not. No, you got to you got to not mess with mysticism, man. It will break your brain.

[00:18:33][screaming] >> Right. So, Stefan, so Stefan discovers that this this young man has beliefs. He has he has mystical he has beliefs in paranormal phenomena, ghosts.

[00:18:48]He said he saw ghosts. He saw these ghosts and um and he says he he was not the only one who saw them. His one of his his brothers or sisters saw them too.

[00:18:59]And so it's it's not he's not the only witness. So this is a witness testimony backed up by independent witnesses.

[00:19:08]Okay? And if if he'd seen it on his own, let's face it, the skeptics would be raising the bar and they would be saying, "Yes, but why were they not independent witnesses?" Right? But Stephan just says, "No, they're not. No, they're not." He just goes, "No, they're not." I hate I just hate it when people do that. And he completely ignores this caller's attempt to be rational. The caller made a rational case, a rational case, and Stefan ignored that. He and now he does, to be fair, he does come on to it, but he starts with be by being completely rational and dismissive.

[00:19:38]It's important to to recognize that problem that Stefan has there.

[00:19:43]>> I dude like, yeah, I understand being um there's a difference between being skeptical and being a critical thinker like because it's like anyone could just be in denial about whatever even if there is evidence. But that is Are you saying Are you saying that consciousness exists in a ghostlike NON-MATERIAL FORM?

[00:20:07]>> [screaming] >> SHUT YOURSELF.

[00:20:10]>> OKAY. SO, now we have Stefan. Not again.

[00:20:13]He's not addressing the point the call has just made. This caller actually I mean when I first when he first joins the when he first joins at the beginning of the show, I got the thing this guy's a bit dippy. He's a bit Stephan accuses him of being a troll. And to be honest, his his original like econ does get off on the wrong foot with Stefan in this particular call. And I did think to myself, this guy this guy may well be trolling. guy does sound a little bit um a bit um not mentally not all there. But when he brings up the subject of ghosts and and other issues, it's pretty clear he's he's actually very very articulate, very knowledgeable, and indeed he attempts to reach Stefan on a rational level that Stephan would understand.

[00:20:54]And Stefan, what Stefan has done now, he's just complete, oh, you saying there's material, you saying there's like ghostly things without material. So Stefan has um changed the subject essentially. who he's or he's moved the subject's focus onwards from where the caller clearly wants to stop it. He wants to stop it and he wants to he wants he wants and he wants to address a particular point as part of his argument and Stephan ignores that and wants to just move the focus on and I don't like that. I don't I think that's a bad that's bad practice on Stefan's part.

[00:21:26]But anyway, these these things are kind of resolved later on in this conversation, but I think that's this is not a good start to this convers.

[00:21:37][snorts] Yeah, I I find that pretty obvious. Like people have out-of body experiences.

[00:21:43]I've had one once.

[00:21:46][snorts] >> And what was your out-of- body experience?

[00:21:50]>> So, I tried to force myself to get up when I felt very tired. I was crawling on the floor. I look into another room.

[00:21:57]I see my uh second oldest brother helping my mom on a computer and I'm really tired. I fall asleep on the floor and I get up and it's like wait. [snorts] So, and I realize, wait, I didn't actually crawl off the floor. I was lying in bed the entire time, but I could physically see into like this other room like what was going on.

[00:22:24][snorts] [screaming] [laughter] Okay, so um what's this is interesting actually cuz this is the first time in this conversation that Stephan has actually shown some curiosity about uh what this caller has to say.

[00:22:38]This caller who's not named, we never find out what his name is. Um, it's but I would say to this caller, you know, when he says I used the force, that's kind of like a it's a pop reference because of course it refers to Star Star Wars and the Jedi order and things like that which is kind of what for some people this is their only experience of of mysticism because of the mystical elements of that film. However, this caller is obviously different. He obviously knows a lot more and when he use thing is if he says I use the force, I tried something with the force. This invites the rebuttal, the the ridiculing rebuttal. Oh, I see. I think you you think you're a Jedi, do you? Oh, right.

[00:23:14]Have you got a lightsaber in there somewhere? That kind of thing. Now, Stefan, to be to his credit, Stefan doesn't doesn't actually take take that bait, which I'm pleased. Um, now what he's referring to is very interesting because it refers to the works of Robert Monroe. Now, in the titles in the title slide for this particular video, I include a book that I've actually read called Journeys Out of the Body by Robert Monroe.

[00:23:36]And it's worth actually, let's just see if I can find some images of it because he wrote several books actually, Monroe.

[00:23:42]Um, here we go. Um, Robert Monroe, he's like he died a while ago, but he wrote a series of books about out of body experiences, how he can actually induce them. [snorts] He actually uh learned to induce out of body experiences. There's this far journeys and there's another edition of Far Journeys. Uh, this is the one, Journeys Out the Body. This is the one I read. You can see I've used a bit of the book cover as the title slide. So this is this is this the only one of his I read but I found it very interesting indeed. I even tried some of the methodology in the book which I found very interesting. [snorts] Yeah. And and Monroe did like proper experiments and stuff like that which I think maybe what this caller is referring to. He tried from what I gather I think the callers actually tried some of the experiments that Robert Monroe did. In which case all credit to him. Well done. That's exactly what we want. This is the kind of scientific um this is the kind of scientific uh methodology that I you think Stefan would be very happy about.

[00:24:42]Um so let's just see how Stefan responds to that.

[00:24:44]>> Well, you know that the human brain is immensely and intensely capable of creating its own stimuli, right? I mean every night we have dreams. Every morning we have dreams. Hang on. Hang on.

[00:24:56]>> Let me finish my thought. All right. So we have dreams every night. every morning where we step into other universes uh things that are incredibly vivid. We we touch taste. I've heard beautiful music. I wish I could remember it when I woke up. And so we have this immense capacity [snorts] for self stimulation. We also know that human beings do experience hallucinations and so on. So that's a possibility, RIGHT?

[00:25:22][screaming] [laughter] [ __ ] >> RIGHT. YEAH. Now um so I think that's response from Stefan. Again I think it's kind of not really it's almost like a nonsequittor. He doesn't really address well he kind of addresses what the caller said but what he said was when caller started talking about this out of body study thing that he did and he tried some experiments and the other people have done many many experiments.

[00:25:48]It's a very rich and deep very complex issue which Stephan has obviously not heard of. He falls back by responding to a very very superficial argument the skeptics use. He and he uses it well. He doesn't go into depth and he pro he probably doesn't know all the details.

[00:26:03]He may not have them to hand but then he says well these are simply the case of the brain producing its own stimulus dreams and hallucinations. Yes, we have amazing dreams. I had a very interesting dream actually and when I got home from work I'd had a little nap and had a very interesting dream. I don't remember them as much as I'd like to. Hallucinations.

[00:26:20]Again, hallucinations are um common and indeed they they they there's all kinds of different causes for hallucinations.

[00:26:28]Um and these things though are not about the real world. Dreams are are a distinct different world. I this is why when skeptics try to um talk about out of body experiences and other altered forms of consciousness. And indeed I'll be talking about if I remember I'll remember to read the article which is based on what Susan Blackmore talked about. And I've mentioned Susan Blackmore before in my replies to Stefan Moly. [snorts] Um they are distinctly different in the sense that they are an imaginary world.

[00:26:59]They are imaginary. Whereas we're talking about things that are unusual and un unexplained perceptions about the real world. Now these are dreams are not verifiable.

[00:27:10]Hallucinations are not verifiable. Some of these things are verifiable. [snorts] And what's more, they are lucid. They're highly lucid. Whereas hallucinations and dreams tend to be very surreal, very confused.

[00:27:22]I'm sure you've had dreams before where you're suddenly, you may be walking down the street with one person, then they suddenly turn into another person. You may be in one place, you you turn a corner and you find yourself in another place.

[00:27:33]The this is what I mean by by um surreal. [snorts] And I mean I I a good comparison is sleep paralysis.

[00:27:42]Now, I suffer from sleep paralysis as as you know, I've spoken about many times and it's not not badly, but I do get it every couple of weeks and it doesn't bother me because I've had it my whole life. I can actually see my bedroom with my because I can open my eyes when I'm when I am still in a sleep paralysis state. It eventually wears off and I wake up properly and can and can move around normally. But I suppose the the the thing is can are you actually seeing your own room or is it based on through your eyes? So are your eyes actually open or you just is it just a memory?

[00:28:13]That's a important question. But then of course people who see see entities in their sleep paralysis, these are verifiable because as I've explained many times before, many many different people see the same thing. And indeed the caller actually brings this up earlier on when he talks about his ghosts, his ghost encounter. Um so if pe many people are seeing the same thing, it could be that every single human brain in the world is hardwired to produce certain um uh certain images under certain states of consciousness which that would take fantastic explanation. You'd ask to yourself, well why? [snorts] Or these people are actually perceiving something objective and in something in um in the real world, something actually outside of themselves.

[00:28:59]So that's that's I think the point that Stephan really doesn't get into [snorts] and so let's let him carry on.

[00:29:08]>> I would say not at all be like there is a difference between hallucinations and nosis. So nosis >> he's making the same point that I am basically >> that's when you can tell that [snorts] all right your your six senses that they're real they actually add up to something.

[00:29:24]So if I [clears throat] see someone in a vision before I meet them, that would count as nosis. But if I well, let's suppose if it's just in my imagination, it doesn't add up to something real, then I I mean that that that's just a daydream. But if you physically see something that's not there, then it's a hallucination. If, let's say, other people see it, like what are the chances you actually have group hallucinations [snorts] where you see the same thing?

[00:29:49][clears throat] >> Exactly. But that stuff like you do have people that do see supernatural phenomena that that is real and I'm not talking about you. You know people lie about the collective stuff all the time.

[00:30:01]Just because it hang on hang on people lie about this kind of stuff. I'm not talking about you because you're talking about other people. So little kids if you say oh there's a ghost right and you run from the room they'll say oh my god there's a ghost.

[00:30:15]And then they literally will remember there being a ghost. I mean, this stuff happens and it's been tested and it has been recorded. There are tons of studies on it. [screaming] >> Yes, there are studies studies done by skippers. Um, I'm I'm just waiting for him to mention Ry's prize. Now, spoiler alert, he doesn't actually mention Ry's prize. He did. He did in the previous one. But yeah, there are studies done by PE people like Professor Chris French, for example, who's a Skeper and many others who are skepers. And um and the thing about is start Stephan starts off by kind of agreeing with the caller by saying because caller says what are the chances of that we all saw the same thing and what's the chances of us all making up he says zero but then he says well people just lie children will make up children will sort of will just go along with it and things like this and uh although that is true there there is such a thing as folly m you know mass hysteria these things do happen um there's studies been done on things like lynch mobs and and things like that and um crowd studies of various kinds. We're talking about something different here.

[00:31:22]We're talking about calm, rational people who are not necessarily involved in some kind of mob behavior.

[00:31:29]And so this is why some of the scientists who disagree with the skepers actually say that.

[00:31:35]But I doubt if Molly even knows about this. And I'm trying to rescue you from a subjective universe. Now, whether you'll take the rope that's coming down the well, cuz right now you're trapped in the belief that delusions are real, that ghosts are real, and all that kind of stuff. You're trapped in all of that.

[00:32:00][ __ ] yourself. I'm throwing your rope down the well, man. I'm trying to help you out of this. I mean, it's I mean, he It's very patronizing, actually. It's very patronizing where he put that. I'm just throwing your rope down this well, man, because I'm out of the well because I I I can see through this sort of thing when he knows nothing. He obviously knows very little about it. And the subjective universe, subjective universe, I think might be a catchphrase by Rand, who has been very Ein Rand has been very influential on Stefan, although he obviously has his criticisms of her. He's done some Stefan's done some interesting videos actually called the truth about Randrand where he goes into this but um it I think he he's obviously picked up some of her some of her own um kind of verbal expressions and also I think possibly some of her worldviews and her attitudes.

[00:32:51]So that's what how I feel [snorts] and I don't know that for sure but that's the impression I get from listening to that little segment >> and >> no because like I've definitely seen a ghost before when I was like six years old and other people seen it as well.

[00:33:02]NO.

[00:33:04][screaming] WELL, this I I just pointed this because, you know, he's not answering.

[00:33:09]Stefan's not actually answering his point. Cuz then in that little brief segment there, the caller interjects and tries to address that and Stephan says, "Hang on." As if he says, "I'm not finished talking." Now, maybe he hasn't finished talking, but I think that would that Stefan Stefan of gets irritated with people who interrupt him and sometimes that irritation is justified, but not always.

[00:33:32]In this circumstance, I think that was a that was a an interjection that Stephan should have followed up with. And he later on in the call, he does allow him more leniency when it and more liberty when it comes to interjections. So, I don't know why he doesn't that time, you know, just answer his point, Stefan.

[00:33:45]He's Stefan is not answering his point.

[00:33:49]That's what annoys me about that bit.

[00:33:51][ __ ] yourself.

[00:33:52]So, you want to believe these things are real and you want to believe these things are true because it makes Okay, I need you to let me finish my thought.

[00:34:03]Can you do that?

[00:34:06]>> Just say yes or no.

[00:34:09]>> I'm letting you finish it.

[00:34:10]>> Okay. Cuz look, it makes you feel special. It makes you feel like I saw a ghost and I'm part of this uh wild crazy universe that most people don't get OR DON'T UNDERSTAND.

[00:34:21]>> [laughter] >> AND that's kind of a fair point because you know when when you do have these experiences and you meet other people who do it's you do inevitably form a kind of inroup. It's a community. I've talked about this many times that there is essentially a uh there's essentially a society that's kind of separate a almost a breakaway civilization from mainstream normies. And again just fact we use the word normies uh indicate is an indication of that we have a an actual word for people who are not part of this society and it's a fair point to say that that inevitably leads to I I would Stephan would use the word cultic behavior. I would ne I would never use that term but it leads to um I think a reinforcement an internal reinforcement of certain ideas which inevitably happens in any kind of community in any kind of inroup. This is this is this is supercharged by I think the sense of camaraderie and bonding that and friendship that I actually really enjoy. It's the most important part of my experience of being a woowoo.

[00:35:38]And that's true and Stephan's right to say that. But yeah, that in itself has no bearing at all on whether the phenomenon is real or not. Unless the only the only time it would have an um a bearing on whether the phenomenon is real or not would be if that kind of behavior, that kind of society in a sense shuts it off shut itself off to all rationality. And what you find is it doesn't. It does the opposite. that community that sense that that uh community. In fact, I might as well just tell you I might as well just tell you this now.

[00:36:07]I've I've just bought my ticket to go to the Society for Psychical Research Conference. I've actually joined them.

[00:36:13]I'm a member and I'm going to their conference in November. That [snorts] that kind of that has no bearing at all on whether the phenomenon is real or not unless you unless you throw away rationality. What you'll find is when you get into these communities, you do the opposite. You become more curious.

[00:36:26]You become more interested. And in a sense, in a strange way, you become more rational because you start looking at things that the skeptics won't or even the normies won't. That makes you more more rational, not less.

[00:36:40]And he says, I I started a bit earlier.

[00:36:42]He says, but it hurts your brain. It hurts your sense of reality. It hurts your ability to objectively communicate with others. You don't know if you're in the matrix or not. You don't know if you're in a waking dream or not. It is very, very bad for your brain to believe in mysticism. It is wretched for your sense of reality, your trust in the evidence of the senses. It messes with your sense of ambition and achievement.

[00:37:04]You said you've got all these business ideas, but I assume none of them have actually manifested. You can daydream.

[00:37:10]You can uh think that you're achieving things when you're not. And you can uh look into [snorts] self-contradictory abstractions as if they're real. And it's bad for your brain. So, go ahead.

[00:37:26]That's probably the most patronizing thing he actually says in this conversation. Um, again, it's he he's essentially describing the same thing that I just did, except he does it from the opposite element angle and he says, "Well, certainly these psychological traits is bad for your brain. Therefore, that does have a bearing on whether these things are real or not." And the fact is they're not. He he starts he kind of reverses the point that I made and he inverts the the actual rational equation that I put before you and he says well because these things are not real per se. That's my foundational position. If you take any interest in them and believe they are real then it's bad for your brain your daydreaming etc etc. In the meantime your life will go to waste. You won't have any ambition.

[00:38:05]You won't be able to start your businesses. Yeah. [laughter] Like woo woos don't have businesses.

[00:38:11]joking. [laughter] I've self-published three books. No, five books. Well, to be fair, four books while I was a woo woo and one when I was kind of sort of like semi-wo. But yeah, I mean this is this is nuts. This is and it's stupid. It's patronizing. And again, he's displaying his Stefan is displaying his ignorance here very very much indeed. And again, there's no it's not dependent on the phenomena being real or not. And Molly has never addressed this in this entire conversation. Um, it's he has he has that assumption. He begins with that assumption, which is why I think he and this caller don't really communicate very well. They're kind of talking on cross purposes.

[00:38:56]All right. This is one area where I do not agree with you in terms of ghosts.

[00:38:59]In fact, I would say the whole atheist afterlife, which is just nothing happens. Like that sounds so much more peaceful than believing in religion.

[00:39:08][snorts] So >> sorry, ghost can exist independent of religion. Can I?

[00:39:16]>> Yes. However, like all right, I'm not saying I believe in ghosts because of this, this, or that. I'm saying, all right, this is what you literally see with your own eyes.

[00:39:26]>> All right. It's like you're telling me what I see with my own eyes is imag is like just >> I don't know some sort of interesting narrative I fit together. It's like no that's not how it is.

[00:39:39][laughter] >> Yeah. Now I could have made the point I I make it I'll make it now. I could have made it earlier in the last segment.

[00:39:48]Um you I could argue in a same I could make the same argument for Stefan's beliefs as he makes for ours. I could make the argument that, you know, it's bad for his brain to be stuck into this world uh of atheism and skepticism, which is it's which is strangely enough a kind of inverse parallel to our own.

[00:40:10]And they don't skeptics don't understand this. I've talked about this in my skeptic talk and I go into great detail.

[00:40:15]If you remember when I went to the QED conference a couple of years ago, right?

[00:40:20]If you here, I went to a skeptic conference. I made a video repotage about it. How many of you remember that?

[00:40:27]Um so in a sense what what the call caller begin now the caller kind of breaks down a little bit in this particular segment.

[00:40:35]He's not articulating himself as well as he did before and um he's not expressing his views as well as he before. But he does make the point that well atheism it's more peaceful to be an atheist in a sense there are there is a psychological urge that drives people towards atheomaterialism.

[00:40:54]um its own form it has its own form of wishful thinking as I've said many times. Now this is partly MBA and I've talked before about how MBA is a major factor in many atheist skeptics but there's other I think elements as well um and I don't quite understand all of them but some people do find comfort in believing that atheist skeptical materialism is the is the position is the way the universe works.

[00:41:20]So this guy did the right thing by countering Molly's psychological point with one of his own psychological points. She's quite switched on this blog. Then he kind of like doesn't really express himself very well for the rest of the narrative, but he'll this will continue. No, you know that memories are not real, right? You know that we invent a lot of things. We invent a lot of things in our minds and stuff that seems very real if [snorts] we look back it wasn't real. I don't know if you've ever gone back to places where you were as a child, but if you go back to places where you were as a child, your memories are not correct.

[00:41:56]Things are different sizes. There are different areas. They're different lengths. I've absolutely sworn that there was a line in a movie that I've thought about for years and then I rewatched the movie for some reason and the line doesn't show up. So, we I mean, it's not like everything about memory is completely false, but memory is as much recreation AS IT IS REAL. [screaming] LUKE, I am your father. He never says that. Darth Vader never says that. Yeah, this is kind of what we have now is kind of a classic Mandela effect. Now, I'm I'm not going to go into that right now.

[00:42:28]Well, what Stephan has what Stefan just described there, the line in the movie is essentially a Mandela effect, which of course if I start talking about that, that'll take half an hour. So, I'll leave that aside.

[00:42:41]But um Stefan makes a correct point that is that memories especially memories of the distant past are inaccurate.

[00:42:49]That's true. But then I I think he says this as an attempt to explain away what the caller described that is the encounter with the ghosts.

[00:42:59]And he doesn't I mean that alone cannot explain not just what this caller has experienced but what many many people millions of people have experienced.

[00:43:08]And that's I'm not talking about the Mandela Mandela effect now. I'm talking about um supernatural phenomena of all kinds.

[00:43:15]Just saying well you misremembered it is not it is not an explanation. It's one that skeptics come back to again and again and again. And um it's I'm not surprised Molly's brought this up because Molly again he has a very superficial knowledge and understanding of this issue in my view. And here's [snorts] the other thing, and this I get a little impatient about because in the 1970s when I was growing up, there were all of these beliefs in ghosts and UFOs and astral travel and out of body blah blah blah blah blah. And ghosts would have to impinge themsel, right? They don't just show up in the mind. So ghosts would have some tangible real impact uh on the eyes. And now every single person, well almost every single person has a 1080p or 4K 60 frame of satin camera uh on them at all times that they can whip up and film. And science have tried, you know, the the dead outnumber the living 30 to1. Science has tried to find anything to do with ghosts.

[00:44:19][screaming] >> Yeah. Well, Stephan gets annoyed about this. When Stephan starts getting annoyed or you're in trouble, I find that annoying. I find that annoying.

[00:44:30]And ghosts will have to imp Well, ghosts do impinge on the eyes. A ghost, strangely enough, uh it's almost like some of the times they almost act like they're aliens.

[00:44:38]They seem to have some kind of physical presence. They'll leave footprints.

[00:44:41]There's things like a port. It's a complicated stuff. I mean, there's more than one form of ghosts. In fact, the word ghost, I think, may be a a generic category that we've used to describe more than one phenomenon. Certainly. Um [snorts] but I mean you actually you know he says science has disproved this. Well science science whatever that might be trust science man whatever that is not um science has not disproved this. Certain people who are scientifically qualified and describe themselves as scientists and do scientific experiments claim that these things have never been shown to operate.

[00:45:21]They they've never been shown to be real.

[00:45:23]Um but the problem is that most scientists don't even try. They don't take this seriously at all. There are some noble exceptions which I've talked about many times. Rupert Sheldrake um you know and lots of other PE I'd like to I'd like to think of some more examples but there are real oh yeah Gary Schwarz there's loads of people who real people who do look into this and come up with different conclusions.

[00:45:46]Um, and the reason the reason why they most scientists don't look at them, I think it's I've talked about this many times.

[00:45:54]I won't go into details again, but it's it's there's a lot there's a massive cultural and group psychological urge or drive in [snorts] the scientific world to take the position that most scientists do. That is the the the majority um will not. So if you put it on a pigraph to quote skeptical and north, it looks like frigin Pac-Man.

[00:46:18]And there's again, it's not because of what's real or not. It's because of what most people think or not based not just on what they discover rationally, but how they're influenced by their position within their own society, within their own inroup.

[00:46:29]So again, I don't think skeptic I don't think um Stefan really has grasped this issue properly. Dear that there's consciousness without matter is like saying there's gravity without matter and everyone has got the exact equipment they would need to detect and show and show ghosts and they have never been reproduced. It is a fantasy and it's a dangerous fantasy. Look, I I obviously can't convince you of that if that's what you want to believe. But I'm telling you it is a very dangerous fantasy. It will leech your life away to believe in the unreal. And you should try and find a way to feel special in this life without having gone through some madeup mystical experiences.

[00:47:07]There's amazing stuff out here in the world to do. And the other thing too is that you can't get any rational women if you believe in this supernatural stuff.

[00:47:16]You just you can't they won't have anything to do with you and thus you're left with the crazies. And if you want to spend your life around the crazies, that's not a good plan in my humble opinion. And you should try to avoid it as MUCH AS HUMANLY [snorts] POSSIBLE.

[00:47:30]>> [laughter] >> [ __ ] SO, skeptic women won't want to want to date me. Um, I can live with that. I can live with that. Not that skeptic women are all all very unattractive, but I I think that they would most of them I I know I don't I don't think they'd be able to tolerate me and I wouldn't be able to tolerate them. Now, what Stefan says with that thing about women is simply it's simply well, that's what that's kind of just normal. That's kind of what happens when people are whe whether people are compatible or not.

[00:48:03]That's all that means. That's all he's talking about here. Now, what he also mentions is he talks he brings up the consciousness, right? He talks about consciousness and how um well, you say there's an element of consciousness is is not a part of matter. Now, this is the dualist argument.

[00:48:23]I don't I doubt if Stephan understands that term, but he never heard that term.

[00:48:27]But this is what he talks about. he says is dualism says essentially there's a there's something outside the there's something outside the universe is invisible that actually animates the the physical in terms of a body and a brain um this is like day cart you know the the pineal gland how the soul comes in through the pineal gland um daycart [snorts] was wrong there but I mean he did live a long time ago before we understood neurology but you see the thing about this he says well what about gra that's like saying there's gravity without matter okay that's a Good.

[00:48:58]That's a good example because okay well what powers gravity? Where's the fuel for gravity? Why is it we get supernova novas of stars? Why do stars become supernovas?

[00:49:08]It's because the the the fusion fuel within them runs out and the gravity that pulls the matter within the star doesn't and so they collapse on themselves. Well, how come the gravity fuel doesn't run out then? Where's the fuel coming from? See, that's that's a kind of an analogy. So So Stephan has actually brought up a good analogy without really knowing it. But then we got then we come on to like what's again Stefan I don't think perhaps understands which certainly doesn't display any knowledge of it in this conversation the hard problem of consciousness which Anthony Peak has discussed in great detail. So have others David Charas who peak has often often referred to and often cited uh but even like skeptics like Sam Harris and have actually brought this up. Sam Harris is a skeptic materialist, although he seems to be wavering a little bit. Um, but even he has has accepted that the hard problem of consciousness is real. He disagrees with Daniel Dennett. And Dennett is a skeptic who said, well, the hard conscious of the hard problem of consciousness is not actually a problem because it's a non-issue because what it did describes essentially doesn't exist.

[00:50:11]Susan Harris t Susan Harris Susan Blackmore takes this position as well.

[00:50:17]Yet Sam Harris says Sam Harris as an atheist skeptical materialist has said no there has to be something more going on. Even Michael Sherman mentioned this when he was on the um he did his debate with Jesse Michaels the other day and of course Dr. David Deutsch who who studies artificial intelligence. Um what's interesting is his work on artificial intelligence has actually led him to uh kind of accept that there's more to consciousness than in the material. and and indeed Sam Harris and he had a very very interesting discussion on this on the subject of photographs. Okay, photographs have been he says well no one's ever produced a photograph of anything valid. We all have like cameras everywhere you know on our phones and stuff like that. Why have no one why has no one produced any evidence? Well, there's two problems with that. Firstly, when people produce evidence and have done when c long before they were mobile phones when cameras were like big boxy things like that which you had to look down on and they only took black and white shots. Right. Photos of paranormal phenomena date back right through the history of photography.

[00:51:22]But when they've been presented to the scientific community, they've been ignored for the reasons I've already explained. Uh the second problem is that these days, this didn't this hasn't always existed through the history of photography. It's only been a problem for the last decade or two, but these days it's just too easy to fake stuff.

[00:51:39]And there were so many fakes. So many so much so that you know even if something you present something that's real who's going to believe it if it looks weird and it's real they'll say well you just faked it and this day unfortunately in this day and age they might be right.

[00:51:52]So, in a sense, we have a this is another burden on paranormal, all paranormal phenomena, not just ghosts, but UFOs, Nessie, Bigfoot, stuff like that. This is a there's a massive signal to noise ratio because there's so many videos and photos out there of all kinds of weird things. And you know, the 90 99% of them are fake. You don't know which percent which you don't necessarily know which ones necessarily are the fakes, but you do know that a vast majority are fake.

[00:52:22]And this c this is this causes you maybe to like be skeptical about all of them.

[00:52:28]That's the problem. Now, um, as far as crazy women, you know, he then says, "Oh, he then accuses him of making stuff up." Um, I mean, he doesn't I don't know what he says.

[00:52:42]Do I have to listen to that bit all over again? [laughter] I'll go back and listen to this again. Hang on. Here we go. or any >> some madeup mystical experiences. Okay, here we go. Try and find a way to feel special in this life without having gone through some madeup mystical. He says he's you need to find a way you want to feel special in this life. There's ways of doing it without make you know this madeup mystical thing >> experiences. That's amazing stuff out here in the world to do. And the other thing too is that you can't get any >> he's making an assumption about what this is motivating this young man in his life. What if this what if this guy's not just making you know accusing made up. It's not made up. Or maybe Stephan just thinks well you're not making this stuff up but you're believing stuff that other people have made up.

[00:53:27]>> Rational women if you believe in this supernatural stuff you just you can't they won't have anything to do with you and thus you're left with the crazies.

[00:53:35]And if you want to spend your life around the crazies, that's not a good plan in my humble opinion and you should try to avoid it as much as humanly possible. [screaming] [laughter] [clears throat] >> Okay, so let's that brings us back to the women again. Now, um I'm glad I went through this little bit again actually because the what this band did, he reported a real experience in real in the sense that it fulfills the criteria of what most people would consider when they see something that is actually objectively real. That is if you're walking down the street and a bus drives past and you point at it and say, [snorts] "Isn't that the number 11 to isn't isn't that's the number 11, isn't it to Garington?" And someone says, "I can't see any bus there." You must be hallucinating. Even though you've even though you've hallucinated something very normal, you're still hallucinating. Yet, if you say, "Oh, someone says, "Yeah, that's the bus. That's the one you want to get." Again, that's veridical. That is most people you would use that as a standard of reality.

[00:54:33]The problem is when you come up when when this what this guy this guy saw something different he didn't just see something normal and mundane like a bus he saw something specifically supernatural yet it fulfilled the same evidential criteria and Stephan said he's basically is is dismissing it not because the the evidence is different but because the nature of the phenomenon is different and as for you know as for rational women some of the some of the most rational women and men I've ever known are in the woowoo world. And let's face it, I I wouldn't The last relationship I had, which was a long time ago, it was about 10 years ago, was with a fellow woo woo. And let's face it, who else would put up with me? Who else could I put up with? If I find myself another girlfriend, and you know, I hope I do.

[00:55:19]She's she's going to be one of us. Let's face it. I know that for a fact. She's going to be um a believer in a all kinds of things I believe in. Otherwise, we just drive each other crazy. So, let's carry on.

[00:55:35]>> All right. Now, you're just gaslighting.

[00:55:37]>> Um, well, you're just making up words there. It's not actually an argument.

[00:55:42]>> I mean, to say that you're just gaslighting. I mean, that's not not an argument.

[00:55:46]>> No, gaslighting is not an argument. I'm giving you reasons as to why you shouldn't believe in this stuff.

[00:55:53]>> I mean, so I focus my attention on is a different story.

[00:55:57]You should not believe in things that are self-contradictory, for which there's absolutely zero proof and evidence and which define reality and reason. [screaming] [laughter] >> Well, well done for standing up to him.

[00:56:09]Well done for standing up to Molly. Most people don't dare cuz Molly can get quite aggressive when people like um when um people sort of like get scathing with him. He he'll get very scathing with other people, but he generally doesn't like it when people get with him. He tolerates it from some people like Peter Joseph of the of the Zeitgeist project. I mean he when Joseph and he had his debate, Stefan was really was actually quite um was more respectful to him than he would be to his regular callers because I suppose he regards Peter Joseph as a fellow I don't know I don't want to be unfair to Stefan here but kind of a fellow an equal kind of like contributor.

[00:56:47]And this is why he says, "I would really appreciate it if you would stop calling my, you know, my arguments this and insulting my position. I don't believe I've constantly insulted yours."

[00:56:55]Normally, when people just start talk in my like like Joseph did, he would end the call. But funny enough, Molly, I mean, I say well done to this caller for standing up to Molly, but Molly actually responds far more calmly than he normally does.

[00:57:12]But again, Molly is not giving him reasons not to believe. I mean, Molly has said several times, you know, this is made up. This is there's so much more in this world that's real. Why are you believing in nonsense?

[00:57:25]Um, he said, well, it is, you know, the brain plays tricks. People lie. He's given he's given a whole list of reasons why he he shouldn't he shouldn't actually address what the caller is saying. He's he's given he's delivered a whole series of skeptobabble of skeptic cliches. That's all he's done so far. So this guy now I don't think it's actually to be to be honest I don't think Stefan is gaslighting this guy. He's not gaslighting the caller. He is simply in fact he's been quite consistent Stefan.

[00:57:59]He's been consistently wrong. I think he is talking across purposes. They're not communicating properly because this man obviously understands a lot more about this particular subject and is trying to address Stefan in the way he would someone who has similar knowledge like me. But he's addressing someone who hasn't really researched this in great detail. Not it's not necessarily this is not like necessarily a bad thing for Stefan. He has a lot to look into. We all have a lot to look into. We can all be stumped by a move that you know we can all be like flawed by a move that we're not familiar with. The best boxer in the world can can be knocked flat by uh you know by a punch he doesn't expect he's coming he doesn't he doesn't expect it to come from because he's not used to the his opponent's technique. Uh, our entire universe and physical matter is generated by a mind. So, >> I'm sorry.

[00:58:48]>> Our entire universe and physical reality is still generated by a mind. So, matter doesn't exist outside of mind either.

[00:58:56]So, >> so I don't exist.

[00:58:59]>> I mean, we all exist inside this mind known as God. So, if you don't believe in God, then you don't exist. No, it's like if you there is no God, then you don't exist.

[00:59:07]>> So, [snorts] God is responsible for my existence and if I don't believe in God, I don't exist.

[00:59:16][laughter] >> Okay. So, we're in a situation now where Stefan again is addressing this point on a on a level differently to the caller.

[00:59:26]He's he's answering the caller on on a level of understanding that the caller doesn't share.

[00:59:33]Um, so I'm sure the caller could come back and talk about the mind matter link about the uh the your conscious generates A, B, and C. We've all heard about these things before. We've all seen things like the secret and what the bleep do we know and stuff like that.

[00:59:46]But um Stefan doesn't is not aware of these points. So, he's answering this caller from a position [snorts] which I understand why the caller is frustrated here, but I I would say to the caller, you know, you you need to be patient with Stefan on this. And I think I probably would be patient with him probably more so.

[01:00:08]I have to deal with people like this all the time, but um this is why I don't necessarily talk to everyone about it.

[01:00:14]But anyway, that's uh that's kind of where we're at the moment. It's kind of like a again, they're cross purposes at the moment. No, it's like atheists. So, there would have to be a god for you to exist in like a singular reality.

[01:00:30]>> Okay, fantastic. That's a very interesting thesis. Uh, make the case.

[01:00:34]I'd love to hear it. I mean that sincerely like I'd love to hear the case. You're just saying stuff, but I'd love to hear the case. Like, make the case.

[01:00:41]>> All right. So, All right. So, we all exist inside the same reality. So that singular thing which would have several different factors. It would be all knowing considerate it would contain all information. It would be universal. I don't know. You're begging the question.

[01:00:57]So you want to make the case that we only exist in the mind of God. Is that right?

[01:01:03]>> Definitely. Yeah.

[01:01:03]>> Okay. Then make the case.

[01:01:06]>> All right.

[01:01:08]So overall case is that all right before we long testing side of mind.

[01:01:16]So God would be everywhere.

[01:01:19]All right. He's all knowing and he's our own creator. So let's say God time travels in order to create our own universe. That's how spacetime even begins.

[01:01:32]Everything that exists therefore is willed by God and it exists virtually inside of his own like [snorts] matrix.

[01:01:41]Now everything outside of that matrix, outside of [snorts] >> his own information essentially doesn't exist.

[01:01:50]So therefore, you're not sorry. You're not making a case. You're just making statements like God is everywhere. Everything is willed by God. These are not proofs. This is not how you reason with people. This is [snorts] not how you make a case. You're just saying stuff.

[01:02:04][screaming] >> Okay. Now, this is this is a this is a point in the conversation where the caller himself also sounds quite confused. And I think what he's trying to talk about now is something where he he the reason he doesn't put himself across so well now is because he doesn't have all the information he needs to hand. I've been in this situation many times in my in my debate with Bowler Hatman. Um, sometimes I was kind of like a bit I was a bit on the ropes because I wanted to bring up an issue which I hadn't researched beforehand because I didn't know was going to come up in the conversation. And it could be that the caller was like that. To be to be fair, the caller didn't I don't think that when the caller joined the call with Molly based on what he says in the first 5 minutes before they come onto this subject, I don't think he expected this to come up either, which is why he doesn't have all the information he needs to hand. He's currently ransacking his memory to get the information he needs and as a result he is like a bit of phasic in his discussion with Molly and then Molly of course is already kind of like out of his depth. So that part of the discussion wasn't very good through no fault of the individuals. It's just again it's it's um cross tracks.

[01:03:17]You have to prove it right. You have to have some evidence for what you believe.

[01:03:20]Otherwise, you can't connect with other human beings because we can only connect in reality, reason, evidence, evidence of the senses and so on.

[01:03:33]Check yourself. There's a big there's a long pause at that point. I I put the bumper in halfway through this very long pause. Um, but you [snorts] see the um the callers clearly does want to do that. He's trying to connect with it on an evidential basis and that's what he's doing. Um, and so obviously this is very very difficult for him and indeed it's difficult for Stefan as well. But it's they are both making an effort. I must say they're both trying to to deal with each other on that level.

[01:04:04][clears throat] >> I mean it's a foundational belief of yours and you should have a reason for it, right?

[01:04:11]>> I mean do we exist inside multiple realities or just one like coherent thing? I mean my case would be that we exist within one reality independent of an external mind.

[01:04:24]>> Would all that information be connected into a mind or no?

[01:04:27]>> No.

[01:04:29]>> No. Because there's no evidence for it and there's no need for >> like different realities in a way.

[01:04:32]>> Sorry. Go ahead.

[01:04:34]>> So would it all be scattered into like different realities in a way?

[01:04:37]>> I have no idea what you mean by different realities.

[01:04:40]So [snorts] like what would keep it whole unified >> like that reality? You mean our obtainable empirical reality >> just like everything that you could possibly comprehend.

[01:04:55]>> What holds it all together? Um my skull and [laughter] gravity and so on, right?

[01:05:00]I mean what holds my brain together is laws of physics and biology and my skull and all of that. So I don't see any need for an external omnipotent consciousness.

[01:05:11][screaming] [laughter] >> Okay. Again, this is more talking across purposes. They're not communicating. Um I must say Stephan is being Stephanie is showing some curiosity though. He's being a lot sorry itchy here. I get I tend to itch a lot when I'm I tend to itch a lot when I'm broadcasting especially my nose. Um Stephan is being more patient than he is with most people. he is showing some c he is I'm I'm kind of impressed that he's showing some curiosity here and so credit to him for that. Um but again it's it's still a little bit it's frustrating that they're not really joining themselves on a kind of like um they're not joining themselves on a kind of in terms of common sense and things like that. I mean, so you would kind of view yourself as a god in a way that your mind, your own brain, >> he's not rich, >> not a god, >> just a man.

[01:06:04]>> All right. So God models, so our brains model reality [snorts] >> in a way. Like that's how you make sense of the world.

[01:06:12]>> What do I mean by our brains model reality?

[01:06:15]>> Yeah.

[01:06:16]>> I mean, you know where things are and your brain stores that in memory, right?

[01:06:19]So for you to like interact with the world, there has to be like a level of coherence in your own mind.

[01:06:24]>> Oh, like I have a show here Wednesday night at 7 o'clock. So I show up Wednesday night at 7:00 and do a good show.

[01:06:29]>> Spatial reasoning like where things are in your room, like how things work.

[01:06:33]>> Yes. So I mean you're totally right about that. [snorts] So we get evidence of the senses in raw data and then our brain, our consciousness assembles that into a coherent and accurate view of the universe. And we couldn't survive as creatures if we didn't do that. Like we couldn't hunt, we couldn't fight, we couldn't build shelter or anything like that if we didn't have an accurate view of the universe. So from [snorts] the raw evidence of the senses, we create a rational and coherent and an objective [snorts] view of the universe so that we can operate within it in order to survive.

[01:07:07][screaming] >> Now that's correct. Um what Stephan said is correct about cognition. Definitely.

[01:07:16]Um, it's it's it's it's very very fundamental, but that idea neither supports nor discredits the caller's argument about mysticism being real.

[01:07:25]It's it's kind of like neutral.

[01:07:29]>> So, I would simply go out on a foot and say that that sort of model is generated but on a larger scale inside the what we could pretty much call the mind of God.

[01:07:41]>> Okay. So, make that hang on and you can't just say it though. you to make a case.

[01:07:46][screaming] >> Um, yeah, the court now the caller does keep trying to make a case here. Uh, but Stefan doesn't respond the way I think it's the best way to respond on this.

[01:07:59]And again, I don't think that's cuz Steph Stefan is not willfully ignorant at this point. He's not like trying to he's not being dishonest. He's simply unable to understand the caller's points. And that's [snorts] and that's the problem there.

[01:08:15]All right. So, is your mind conscious?

[01:08:17]>> Yes.

[01:08:18]>> All right. H. So, if your mind is conscious, could it be that it would exist inside of an even greater consciousness that such a being and a thing, let's say, as complicated as the entire universe that would contain all of our own mind be generating like your mind and everyone else's?

[01:08:40]>> Yeah.

[01:08:43]All right. So, there's nothing more complicated than the human mind.

[01:08:46]>> That would I didn't say that. I assume that there are things more complicated than the human mind because the universe is >> All right. So, the universe, you got to let me you I want you to keep your word and let me finish my thoughts.

[01:08:59][screaming] >> Right. The this is the old idea. It's an old adage I've often heard before um about the mind and about the Stefan is coming from the position that um his mind is generated by his brain. Now several scientists have actually said that the the human brain actually is the most complicated thing we know of in the entire universe.

[01:09:23]Stephan has said he's sure there are more complicated things out there. Well, if they are, we don't know about them.

[01:09:30]And the problem with our brain is that the the materialism then comes up against a little bit of a contradiction in a sense and it's often it's often described by the adage which you may have heard which is um if our minds were generated by our brain then we couldn't we couldn't understand our brains because we'd be too stupid which which is kind of saying inevitably there has to be some kind of mystery of our brain because we can't reflect our own cognitive abilities our own intelligence back onto it and then kind of analyze it from something above it.

[01:10:03]So that's kind I don't know if Stephan has ever heard that before, but it's it's a very interesting idea.

[01:10:08]>> So of course there are things out there I'm sure that are more complicated than the human mind. There is life out there more complicated that's had more time to evolve and and so on. So yeah, there are things more complicated. But the thing is, if you're going to say consciousness exists within a larger consciousness, then [clears throat] God would exist in a larger consciousness and God would exist in a larger consciousness and the super god of the super god squared and the super god cube. Let me finish. Got to let me finish my thoughts. Okay, this is how you have a conversation, right? So, it's the problem of infinite regression. So if we say all consciousness exists within an infinitely larger consciousness then that just goes on and on forever. At some point there has to be a consciousness that is not embedded in a larger consciousness and that's just us because we don't need any of that. At some point you have to stop the infinite regression and you have to say this is the limit of um consciousness within consciousness. And since there's zero evidence for [snorts] our consciousness being embedded in a logic consciousness, and since you have to accept that there's a consciousness that's not embedded in a logic consciousness, which in this case would be God, you have an unnecessary multiplication of explanations for which there's zero evidence and you should abandon it as false and incorrect.

[01:11:23][screaming] [laughter] >> All right. Now, um it's not incorrect.

[01:11:30]There is evidence. Like I said, um going back to the previous the the beginning subjects that he talked about that is supernatural paranormal phenomena. But you know he's brought up a valid conundrum um which I've often wondered indeed even pre this comes up in priests and things like that in in the theology.

[01:11:47]Yes. You know even when I was a when I was a Roman Catholic and I went to church I used to go to mass and the priest Father Pascal he used to bring this up. He said, "Well, if God created us, who created God?" And then you you end up in a kind of like, "Well, it's God's all the way down or there's some super levitating um there's some super levitating super god and things like that." It is a contradiction. It's a conundrum. And I don't know what the answer is. I mean, Ken Wilbur, who's a very interesting chap actually, Ken Wilbur, he's tried to he's tried to to deal with this in his his book. He wrote a book called uh was I think it was actually called a brief history of everything which is a rather rather hubistic title but um it was a very interesting book and he's it's it's a condensation of a longer book that he wrote where he talks he talks about what he calls the hierarchy he says everything is a holon meaning it's a part of something but it's also it's a part of something but itself also contains parts. Um I I didn't think it was a very very good explanation and um we'll see what the caller has to say.

[01:12:55]>> I'd say that's definitely a logical fallacy and that this is why God is known as the self-generated also known as the all cuz he generates himself including spaceime from which sorry so you have consciousness that generates itself. So that's me like you already say consciousness can generate itself.

[01:13:14]So that's me and I can I my consciousness generates hang on hang on hang on hang on my consciousness generates itself and you say well God does that but you don't need it. If you're going to say consciousness can generate itself then my consciousness generates itself and we don't need all of this other infinity for which there's zero evidence.

[01:13:36]>> Long pause.

[01:13:38]Go on. Go for it.

[01:13:41]It's a very long pause.

[01:13:43]>> The consciousness of God generates itself or is the consciousness of humans that's generated by God.

[01:13:50]>> Okay. So here's what we can prove. So you can you can prove this very easily. You can prove this very easily, which is if I am contained within the consciousness of God, and you know that for certain, then it would make more sense for you to have God speak to me than for you to be speaking to me because I, you and I are both embedded in the consciousness of God.

[01:14:15]And so if you can just have God speak to me, that would prove, you know, if I say, "Look, I have a Alexander Granbell and I say, "Look, I can I can phone you over these copper wires and I can talk to you uh 10 miles [laughter] away or 100 miles away or whatever, right?" Uh, okay. That seems that would seem a little bit unbelievable at the turn of the century, last century. But what do you do? You you phone up, you say, "Oh, I mean, hello. Hello." Right?

[01:14:40]And then you hear the the voice and the and and you can talk back and forth. And so if you believe that there's an uber infinite perfect consciousness that surrounds us like the force and permeates us and and knows everything, then you just need to like why are you talking to me? If you have infinite consciousness that can communicate with me, then rather than telling me about this infinite consciousness, the infinite consciousness would contact me himself because obviously he's you believe he's contacted you, which is why you have these beliefs. I believe that it is a bit of a vain glorious delusion that you're not achieving much in life.

[01:15:19]So you like to feel special by making up consciousnesses and alternate dimensions and ghosts and that way you feel like you are special or achieving something or the center of someone's attention, which I don't think you are. But it wouldn't make any sense for you to tell me all about this absolutely perfect consciousness. What would make sense is for that absolutely perfect consciousness to communicate to me, which he never has cuz he doesn't exist.

[01:15:49]Okay. Well, firstly, Stefan was unfair there where he said to the caller, "Oh, you're just he's actually literally now accusing him of making stuff up." Not just believing things that other people have said, actually making things up. Um that was unfair. But then, of course, I think the caller was also unfair to Stefan when he accused him of um committing a logical fallacy because Stefan was not committing a logical fallacy. As I've said before, he brought up a valid conundrum.

[01:16:14]Yeah. Now, um the thing about is I do wonder what he says afterwards about he says, "Well, you you think that God has talked to you and things like that. Why doesn't he talk to me?" Um Stefan, she started going to church lately. He has he has he he made a video called Why I was wrong about Christianity.

[01:16:34]And um he's be he's taken interest in Christian Christianity. He's made friends with Christians and he goes to church. He takes his family there. Now, this doesn't mean he's become a believer. He's not actually abandoned his atheism unlike Dave Cullen in Computing Forever whose his rejection of new atheism and his and his uh his um his acceptance of cultural Christianity has been mixed with a genuine faith. Stefan doesn't have a genuine faith, but he does go to church.

[01:17:04]And if he asks those people at church because he does say he does talk to them, he talks to the vicar, he talks to the people, they would explain this sort of thing to him about how you do communicate. And I mean, he says things like, well, you make this the reason you make this stuff up because you want to be you want people to pay you attention.

[01:17:20]You want to be the subject of someone's attention, the object of somebody's thoughts and feelings and you're not. And that's unbearable.

[01:17:29]So, you have a fantasy to to says yes, you are you are actually you are actually the object of someone's attention.

[01:17:38]That's fair enough. But what if evidence what if I I mean I'm I'm bringing something completely new up now which I've not told anyone before and I'm not going to go into details now. I'm working on an article about this for pan my voice and I will bring it up on a future video.

[01:17:52]But what if something happens [snorts] which confirms something physical in the world that is there tangible real material that confirms that you are actually not alone in your predicament and someone is showing you attention.

[01:18:12]What if that happens? What what's wonder how Stefan would react if that happened because I know how I have reacted and I'll say more about that in the future.

[01:18:20]Sorry to leave you on a cliffhanger there.

[01:18:24]>> All right. So now you're both gaslighting and throwing out ad homminin attacks. So >> he's right there.

[01:18:32]>> And being quite a hypocrite for interrupting.

[01:18:35]>> Uh yeah, that's that's a fair point for sure. Sorry about that. Now, it's not an ad homonym because there has to be some reason why you would believe things that aren't at all logical and for which there's no evidence. There's usually some sort of psychological motivation.

[01:18:48]>> I don't see it as illogical. It's like the entire universe. It's going to be contained from within itself.

[01:18:54]Understand? So that that's all this unified thing. All right? It doesn't exist in a vacuum. All right? Is your brain all connected into one thing?

[01:19:04]>> You know that you're just doing word salad here, right? The universe is connected to within itself. Like that doesn't mean anything.

[01:19:11]>> I mean, obviously it is. We're not living in this huge multiverse >> where things like this appear.

[01:19:17]>> You know, I gave it a shot. Uh, I gave it a shot, but uh, this is not somebody who's going to have any capacity for reasoning, but you know.

[01:19:24]>> Oh, dear. That's a shame. I think Stephan's now ended the call. Well, firstly, I mean, I I was very impressed that Stephan actually apologized when um, the caller accused him of being a hypocrite as so I'm glad again, I'm glad the caller stood up to him. I was quite surprised that Stefan was so generous with the criticism. He's not often.

[01:19:41]So, but the thing about it is I mean what the man started to talk about was what you might call the it it goes in several forms. It's KL Young's collective unconsciousness. It's uh the morphagenetic fields that Rbert Sheldrake talks about. It's the sense of being stared at dogs who know their owners are coming home. the fact that minds are connected at a higher level which can't be explained in terms of physicality even if you take into account electro electromagnetic fields which of course the brain does generate but it doesn't it doesn't generate electromagnetic fields that are that strong in fact they're so strong that even if you stuck your head right up against someone else's you couldn't communicate via that method so something else is going on some people uh like I mean the good thing is there's people like Roger Penrose who bring this up who is a prop he's a proper a scientist. He uh colleague of Steven Hawings. He now talks about uh the brain being a quantum computer and things like this. There's lots of other people who talk about things like on this level. So um Stephan is actually be he's actually not only be behind the times when it comes to to the Woo world, he's actually behind the times when it comes to to current scientific theory. But I'll let him carry on. There was no bumper there. I just thought I'll get that in now so I don't lose track of and remember what he says. Maybe this is just a sort of habit from [snorts] uh myself in the past where I tried to save my mom from this kind of stuff, but um it's not going to it's not going to happen. And it is a shame. I mean, I haven't engaged [clears throat] with someone like this in in many many years.

[01:21:13]>> [ __ ] yourself.

[01:21:15]>> Now, um firstly, the word multiverse is a scientific word. It's a scientific term. Again, if Stefan keeps uh if Stefan keeps tracked all with the current scientific world, he would understand this. And indeed, um there's even like I said, Rupert Sheldrake does talks about this sort of stuff. Um Roger Penrose, and there's um Stuart Hammer, who's a colleague of Penrose, who's a former doctor who comes into this from the sort of medical perspective when he was an anthetist. But there's others as well. I mean, there's there's Mitch Kaku, who's one of the most world's most famous pop scientists.

[01:21:51]um he uses the term multiverse. He's even written a book called I think that's the title of this book he read he wrote which I've read um it's a scientific term now as far as what he says about his mother is very revealing because he says he I tried to save my mom from this and I think this that what he's just said there explains an awful lot and indeed this came up in part two I remember because I did watch like a few minutes of the of reply to Stephan Molyneu mysticism a second reply to Stephan Molyneu this is the third reply Um, it turns out his mother was some kind of believer in various things. I think she was into tarot cards and spiritualism and stuff like this. And as Stephan has said, she was also an extremely cruel and abusive woman. And I sympathize with that very much. And and indeed that I think it might explain some of my psychology as well. I've gone a different direction from Stefan, but it might explain some of my psychology because my mother was also uh psych psychologically abusive to me.

[01:22:51]And my father was and is too weak too weak to resist and couldn't defend me.

[01:22:59]And that that has shaped my entire life.

[01:23:02]And it I think the fact that Stefan's mom who was I think worse than I mean he he hasn't talked about all the things she did to him but she was emotionally abusive and physically abusive to him when he was too young to to fight back.

[01:23:18]That of course has shaped his life. like like one thing that Stephan and I have very much in common is we're trying to we're trying to turn that into something positive.

[01:23:30]We're trying to do a kind of form of spiritual alchemy by taking crap and turning it into gold. And I respect Stefan for that. I really do.

[01:23:41]This is one of the reasons I still watch him. But I hope that you found that somewhat useful in that >> Oh, I did. It is really important to try to engage with people because we all have some irrational ideas. We all have some nutty ideas and I >> you've got lots of them, Stefan. Believe me, this this video project actually proves that.

[01:24:00]>> Never really had that there's a certain kind of impermeability or imperousness to external reality that people just can't seem to get through.

[01:24:12]It's a it's a real shame. you cannot get through to people who view themselves as a kind of god. Cuz he said, "Oh, so you think you're a god." It's like, "Well, no, you think you're a god because you have access to this perfect [snorts] universe and god and brain. Then why would you need to talk to me? The universe would talk to me."

[01:24:30]>> All right, we have another caller.

[01:24:33][snorts] What is on your mind?

[01:24:38]>> Right, that's the end of that audio.

[01:24:40]Now, um, the thing about it is Stefan says that people are impermeable to reality when all that's happened is Stefan people are not impermeable to impermeable to reality, the people you deal with in this in these kinds of conversations. It's just you and your the people you talk to are impermeable to each other's positions and each other's worldviews. And that's what it is. and and to to break down that that barrier, that impermeable barrier and actually achieve some kind of osmosis between the two is not easy. It's something that I have put a lot of effort into and I still maybe haven't achieved it completely, but I think I put more effort into it than you have and indeed the the call the caller has and indeed most people do. This is why I talk to people like like a bowler hatman, a skeptic of the north and I go to QED conferences and I go to Oxford Skeptics in the Pub and other skeptics in the pub.

[01:25:34]I'll just show you this article now. I don't know if it's worth reading the whole thing, but this uh article is quite relevant actually. It's um this is the uh this is why people believe in the soul out of body experiences. This is by Jesus Zamora Bonilla. My goodness me.

[01:25:49]He's he's his name is far from uh far from atheistic although he didn't give himself that of course his parents did.

[01:25:57]But this is mapping mapping ignorance.

[01:25:59]That's a good name, isn't it? The idea that human beings are composed of two kinds of substances. A material body and spiritual and spiritual mind or soul is probably as old as modern human beings and certainly insufflated certainly insufflated most of the world's religions. I never heard the word insulate before. As well as a big number of philosophical theories about human nature. Even non-religious people admit in a non small proportion that we are have to be more than just flesh and bones. In modern philosophy, it was Decart the author that gave the most persuading arguments in the defense of the dualist dualist worldview of human beings. From his famous argument, I think therefore I am. He inferred that the reality of our thinking or our consciousness is more certain and more clearly knowable than that of the physical world. And he also argued that consciousness cannot have a material nature since we can conceive that we are conscious mind without a body. It would follow from this according to the French philosopher that the nature of consciousness or thought or mind is different from the nature of physical objects. For example, we cannot conceive of an object having mass without it being a physical object. So the concept of mass would be intrinsically attached to the concept of physical body in a way that the conf concept of mind quote unquote is not. After all he would say is it not obvious that being conscious is something radically different from moving an arm or digesting our food.

[01:27:29]Being thinking remembering listening or suffering are a type of activities that do not resemble at all any physical activity. The difference between mind and body seems hence as radical as the difference between an ocean and an equation. For example, so radical we need to think about each means a totally different system of concepts. Or isn't it?

[01:27:51]The truth, however, is however that no matter how apparent different mental and physical activities look like, it is also obvious there is an intimate connection between both. If I do not lit the light, light the lit the light in the darkness, my mind could not think or wish whatever she likes, but I will not see anything. And seeing is, of course, a kind of mental activity. If I ingest a certain amount of ethanol, a rather simple molecule by the way, my mental processes will suffer a notable change.

[01:28:21]Note, notice if my mind makes me remember that I put something on the stove half an hour ago, my body is if by magic manages to start immediately running towards the kitchen and so on and so forth. We must not assume hence that mind and body are totally heterogeneous. What would make their interaction interdependent absolute mystery? But we should rather put a different question. If mind and body are so obviously connected, why is it so obvious for us the impression that they are so heterogeneous that makes their interaction independence an absolute mystery? I should and he goes, this is quite long actually out of body experience hallucinations. But he [snorts] goes on to say um well it's actually not that long.

[01:29:08]Should I read the whole thing? Here we go. Um, to make a long story short, I think there are mainly two families of facts that are responsible of the nearly self-evident qualitative distinction between the mental and the physical. I think it means four. This quite I think this is probably a translation from another language. The first one are those psychological phenomena in which people literally experience a kind of separation between the body and the soul. You don't need to see all this. I can just read it.

[01:29:43][snorts] Um, and the three main types of these phenomena are the so-called out of body experiences, OBBE, the near-death experiences, NDE, and the mystical experiences, ME. These phenomena are not experimented by a majority of people's experienced, though they are not as unusual as you might think, but they could also ser only serve as a direct argument for the immaterial essence of the soul. If you've experienced some of them by yourself and my thesis is that this imit immateriality is for most people not only a well-confirmed hypothesis that might be confirmed by the testimony of others also yeah group witnesses independent witnesses group experiences but something that is almost directly perceived. So besides these three types of psychical phenomena, there must exist some other mechanisms more universal than the former ones that tend to generate the illusion of immateriality.

[01:30:39]But these will be topics for future entry um entry. And so the out of body experience, an individual usually in an involuntary way, but sometimes in intended fashion feels that she has been separated from her body and she can be perceived she can perceive the environment including her own organism from a different point in space. is usually higher than where her eyes actually stand. I don't know why this person has to be female, but it's probably very politically correct. At times, a subject also feels she can move floating above the body or move or less more or less far away places. That's Robert Monroe. Yeah, Robert Monroe. This type of experience is one about one of every 10 people has had. Oh, I haven't.

[01:31:24]I'd like to. And they are obviously the basis of a popular belief in astral travels since there are experiences that some individual may voluntarily provoke and that can be triggered by ex external causes. They have been apt for rigorous experimental study uh much more than the types of experience I shall discuss. For example, Blackmore 1983 of course Susan Blackmore. Yes.

[01:31:47]These investigations have concluded that obbees are a type of hallucination distorted perception. Although we have the intuitive process impression that we need only open our eyes to see what is there in our surroundings. The truth is our brains perform an enormous amount of processes systematically decomposing and recomposing that information it gets from our senses. Processes that take place in very different parts of the brain structure and that in the end produce the illusion of being surrounded by objects that behave as they should.

[01:32:17]Amongst the objects whose behavior the brain has to reconstruct before offering them to our consciousness as if they were just there is the very same individual that is perceiving her body and her cognitive processes themselves or of the parts of them that is biologically relevant that we perceive.

[01:32:34]Your own perception is the result of a colossal number of neurological processes not less than any other perception that you have and as with the case of any other perception it can also be distorted by a number of causes. It may happen that under certain conditions, your brain constructs an image of yourself that is very different to the one it would generate in normal circumstances. And this distorted image will look as real for us simply because this seeming real is the most important quality our brain attaches to the perpetual images, perceptual images it constructs, no matter if they're normal or abnormal.

[01:33:08]The most interesting conclusion from the scientific studies of obbees is the confirmation that they can be artificially generated. For example, we know from ancient times that some drugs are capable of doing that. Oh, blime me, we're down a rabbit hole now, amongst other perpetual distortions. But more recently, [snorts] it's been proved that similar experiences can be produced by the electrical stimulation of certain brain areas. For example, as Thomas Metsinger uh relates in his book, the ego tunnel, neurologist Olaf Blank identified in 2002 [clears throat] that the temporal parietal articulation more or less over or behind your ear as a regional who stimulation or deterioration after an accident can generate obes.

[01:33:50]What does not imply that this is the only physical source of this kind of experiences?

[01:33:57]Other fascinating experiments do not employ a direct manipulation of the brain but are based on the artificial creation of illusionary perceptions. One nice example would be something like the observant OBBE. Instead of feeling we are out of our body, what happens here is that something that is not our body is experienced by us as if it were the case of the rubber hand illusion. Oh, that's when someone strokes your hand out of your sight, but you see a hand another hand like you just made of rubber. It feels like that's your hand.

[01:34:26]For example, a subject extends both hands under the table, but one of them is hidden to her own view by a path by a panel. And next to it, there was a rubber hand in a similar position and posture. The experimentter touches simultaneously during some time the real hand and the artificial fake one. And after some minutes, the subject perceives the latter as if it were her real hand. And she even starts perceiving something like a ghost arm connecting her shoulder to the fake hand. Metsinger extended this experiment in order to produce what he called a virtual OBBE while the subject is waking is so it's walking. She wears virtual reality glasses in which it is projected the image recorded by a camera that is moving 1 meter behind her. So she see she she is seeing from her back her own body walking 1 meter in front of her.

[01:35:13]After some minutes, she starts perceiving that image of the body as if it were her real body. Saw it as if she saw from a spiritual astral body that were walking one meter behind the physical one. And the references here are Susan Blackmore beyond the body academy Chicago 1983 and Messinger [snorts] the ego tunnel which I think as peak has referred to Mexinger. So that's that article there.

[01:35:37]I mean of course what's in that article is not true and I could do a reply video. I could do a reply to that now, but then this video will then be another two hours and I've done I've done other videos responding to those points. But um that's just giving you an example of the other side of the story. So um once again, you know, despite everything, I want to say a big thank you to Stefan Molyneu for keeping me interested in various things that he talks about.

[01:36:07][snorts] And the more I disagree with him, the more fascinating I find him. I really really do and no doubt well there will be more. In fact there's there's no doubt at all because I've explained before I'm currently working on another reply video to Stephan Molyneu on a different subject and when that's going to be uploaded I'm not sure because um but there's a lot of there's a lot more coming up. I'm uh going to awake and aware next weekend. So um if you're going to that I will see you there. And of course there will be a panel TV repage as usual.

[01:36:37]And I'm going to do a reply to comments video again at some point. I don't know if I don't think I'll have time this week, but I'll I'll do one as soon as I can because they're building up again.

[01:36:45]But in the meantime, thank you all of you for watching. Hanwood TV. Hospital bought us pride and dignity. Stop the new world order.

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