Are you ready for Lithium on your boat?

[00:00:00]Are lithium iron phosphate batteries  more dangerous than AGM on boats? No.

[00:00:05]If installed correctly. What's your take on the  Battle Born batteries? Battle Born batteries, I have got away from them before any of  these issues came up, because of price point and technological advances with their  competitors. Great company though. Still, what is one upgrade you tell every cruiser to make  first? Put my cell phone number in your phone.

[00:00:46]Today we're introducing you to Rafael Escobar  from Bluewater Yacht Tech. Welcome, Rafael. Hey, Maryline. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.  Rafael is here to talk to us about smart systems when it comes to power generation on boats and  he's got a specialty on catamarans that he'll tell us more about. And the reason we're here,  especially with Rafael today, it's to obviously put in light that a boat's electrical and  electronics package is one of the biggest drivers of both its usability, the enjoyment  of the boat, and its value, especially when it comes to resale. And guess what? You don't have  to be an electrician, but you do need to know the right questions to ask. And that's why Rafael is  here with us. How long have you been in business, Rafael? And how did you how did you get here?  Sure. Blue Water is a relatively new company, about 15 months old. But my history started 18  plus years ago in the catamaran niche before it really got popular working with all the big boat  builders um when my last company was much much smaller. So, I got a lot of opportunities to grow  with Leopard and Lagoon and see FP rise up and then all these other boat builders popping out of  the woodworks these days. And it's great for the industry, all the new competition. Competition  always drives quality, which um it's it's fun to be a part of and it's fun that such a small  niche in the yaching industry worldwide. It's everyone's so tightly closely together and stays  friends and is friendly in the industry and always uh driving each other's level of excellence. Um  so Bluewater Yacht Tech is um sort of derived out of my passion for electronics. I'm a big guy.  I started in the industry 18 years ago working on diesel engines and working on boats with  small engines and you end up what they call um engine room yoga and I sort of like that. So I  really got interested in electrics and electronics and sort of drove my passion that direction. So  really got focused in and was blessed to early get in on the development of lithium batteries and  uh was able to get in on training with Victron Energy early on when they were a tiny company.  So I really got my hands in early integrating uh lithium and the the brand leader in integrating  lithium into yachts I would say would be Victron right now. themselves. We've been really blessed  to ride that wave of the catamarans, the lithium, like all the conversion companies and uh just be  at the right place at the right time to enjoy and have the chance to try all the new products,  the 48 volt, the high output alternators, all the cool stuff. So, it's just been fun  and living in Fort Lauderdale, born raised, it's it's sort of just a prime place for all those  things. So, me too. Definitely feel blessed. Yeah.

[00:03:34]Yeah. That's awesome. and blessed to be here  in Fort Lauderdale, be part of Blue Water and uh starting this new company under a much bigger  pairing company indirectly for a boat builder like Fountaine Pajot. And we know you do work heavily  with catamarans, but what's different really about wiring a catamaran versus a monohull or is it  more about the cruising program? Yeah, the wiring overall um depends on the boat builder. Some  catamarans are really hard to work on and some are easier. Same with monohulls. Its accessibility.  Is it French? Is it South African? Is it American-built? Cruising program has a lot to do  with it for sure. Uh there's a lot greater needs on a camera and there's a lot more air to fill. If  you're trying to invert air con and more space to cool down. So there there's all those different  variables. I mean when it comes to installs, you have one that heals over. You have to worry about  exhaust on engines versus catamarans. So you don't even think about it hardly. So there's all those  fun things and and catamaran's adding industry. If you're good at a product, it doesn't matter what  boat you're on. It's it's just if like the other day I was on a 72 meter changing out two lithium  battery banks and it's a boat's a boat. It's just more complex and more um liability on the line.  Yeah, exactly. A million dollar boat versus a hundred million dollar boat, you know? It's it's  fun. When a when a boat owner calls you, Rafael, does it tend to be a new boat upgrade, let's say,  more of a refit or more reactive to some kind of, you know, something's broken on my boat emergency?  What is the bulk of the work that you do? Uh, in this season, I would say it's more the  emergency and brokerage sales side. You know, you guys have done a ton of great videos on the  current market. New boat sales aren't super hot.

[00:05:24]In the past COVID times, it was all new boats,  you know, or or a lot of brokerage boats, too. But right now, a lightning strike, partial  sunken boat, well, stuff I'm working on right now, uh, other damages, fire damages having to do,  not with lithium, electrical wiring issues, but it just a lot of reaction and right now it's  a lot of brokerage boats, boats going for sale, trying to make them pretty, make them the best  they can be for the survey. That's great. So Rafael, let's start with lithium batteries and  it's a word, a term that's thrown around a lot and for different applications. So what does  lithium mean in the boating world? For starters, lithium mean lithium means just having the ability  to use your boat a lot better. When you have someone that's been reluctant to switch over and  they're an experienced sailor, when they come back to me for the first time, they're like, "My god,  that was a game changer." It's just the voltage drop that happens with lead based batteries  versus lithium. It's just your electronics work better. Usability is much greater. So, and  then of course, you know, if you're a performance sailor or someone who likes to go fast on a power  boat, the weight makes a huge difference. I mean, it's just it's truly a game changer. And can  you just dump it down for those of us who don't really know um the the the chemistry behind  lithium? Lithium for a boat battery, let's say, or a laptop. Those are different things. Can  you just tell us how these compare or how they're different? Yeah. Yeah. So, chemistry.  So, I think about I recently joined the Tesla crew and then they helped me understand Tesla cuz  I know lithium and I'm like, I never really drove into the Tesla world. And you're like, oh, you see  cars catching on fire and you're like, all right, that's why. They find out what chemistry they're  using. My car outside is a performance model, so it needs higher draw, faster charge, and it uses  NMC, nickel metal cobalt. In boats, we're using what you hear a lot of people call LiPoFE 4 or  lithium iron phosphate. And lithium iron phosphate I like I'm old car person grew up around cars. I  think it's like the station wagon. It's like the family van. It's not performance. It's what you  use to get A to B and you're not like trying to race on a track. That's what the LiPoFE 4 is. It's  stable. They That's a good analogy. Yeah. They add extra in all the cells. They add fire retardant.  So most of these batteries, if you throw them in a fire, it cannot catch on fire. You sink them in  underwater and they won't catch on fire because of the chemistry of the cells and what they do to  the cells to keep them from being dangerous. But um yeah, the stuff on boats outside of all the  toys, the stuff you use for house banks is very very safe if installed correctly. Yeah. So, for  someone who's only ever known lead acid or AGM, practically, what changes with lithium as far as  use capacity, cycles, those types of things? Yeah.

[00:08:16]Yeah. I mean, I think this is a pretty common  knowledge these days, but you go from 50% using 100 a hour battery, you can only go about 50%. If  you wanted your gels or your AGMs back in the day, it'll last forever. You go to 70% only. You like  use 30%. And that's the only way you can get seven eight years out of a battery. And I saw it  happen and I'm like, "How did you get this battery to last that long?" They're like, "Well, I never  got below 70% state of charge." I'm like, "Okay, that's not really using a battery." But that's the  way it was back in the day. But with lithium now, you can draw them down to 20%. The sweet spot  is between like 20 pretty much 30 to 80% staying in the middle. you do want to go to 100% often,  but yeah, that just the ability to have a bank, say going from 700 amp hours of lead that you  can only use 350 and you go to 700 of lithium, you can use well over 500. It's just the space,  the weight, um your ability to run longer with before you charge or if you have a bad rainy day  from your solar, I'm sure we're going to hit that topic next, you can wait longer for the sun to  come back up again. So, it's just so much better in so many ways. Yeah. And excuse my um lack of  knowledge on the matter of brands and batteries, I'm sure, are not all created equal, but are you  an authorized distributor for certain brands like Victron or MasterVolt? How does this work? And  how do you help an owner choose if they don't know the difference between a good lithium system  and cheap one? Yeah, I I mean I've worked with dealer and distributor from many brands over  the years. Currently, my go-to batteries, uh, number one would be Victron Energy. Number two  would probably be the Epic brand for price point and Victron Integrable. Also, they're been heavily  porting AYC and following all their standards to the tea and becoming a real lead brand. I do  work with many other brands and have worked with many other brands over the years, but my  go-tos are those. MasterVolt isn't as big with boat builders in the US, more in Europe. They're  incredibly expensive, but their safety protocols and engineering integration is on another level  compared to a lot of other battery brands. So, that's what a lot of European companies love using  MasterVolt. So, it's more the niche. Master Volt's trickier. There's not many people that know it.  So, I really love getting involved cuz it's sort of fun to jump in on something no one has a  clue on, which seems to be so easy. But, yeah, my my go-to brands I've worked with Superb, I've  worked with Battlebborne, I've worked with Rely.

[00:10:45]I used to be the face of reliable when they came  out years and years ago. Yeah, I've worked at a lot of different battery brands. Genesis even  was the first battery I've ever installed and they're not even a brand at war. A lot a lot of  things come and go in in the battery industry.

[00:10:59]Absolutely. We we definitely have seen that. So,  let's talk a little bit now about BMS. What is it and why can it be a double-edged sword? Battery  management system. And it's basically uh since lithium is um a little more volatile in essence,  you need to have some more protections from what they call thermal runaway. But you want to you  don't want the batteries to get fully discharged to zero. Like your end-start battery gets dropped  to zero. It happens to everyone. Nothing happens.

[00:11:27]You just created your battery. It's done. With  lithium, if it drops to zero, the electrons inside the battery can get out of control. And  that's where the thermal runaway comes from. So you need to protect from those bottom numbers and  the overcharging. So the BMS is that fail safe to protect internally so that the batteries can never  get to those dangerous thermal runaway points. Got it. Yeah. So when you have back in the day we used  to have all the time a Chinese built battery where someone just buy the cells from China, ship  them over and buy some ABYC BMS and wire it in themselves. It was so easy to mess up. It's so  easy that I have a situation where someone didn't program it right. Even it was just too many too  many variables without an engineering level degree or experience. So nowadays um we have internal  BMS and external BMS. The BMS protects it from the highs and lows. it uh controls chargers from  anywhere your shore charger, generator charger, solar charger, alternators uh from overcharging or  then on your other side the house uh draws or your inverters from drawing it too low. So it's sort of  the brain and sign watching every cell for thermal for voltage high low uh for ambient temperatures.  Uh there's a lot of variables that you need to uh keep those batteries safe to perform at their  best. And you just mentioned alternator charging which we know is like very scary for a lot of  boat owners perhaps because it's misunderstood but can you explain why perhaps it's it's thought  out this way and what what else do you see as dangerous integration points when you do a lithium  conversion and how do you solve for those? Yeah, alternators there's a lot of fear-mongering.  Um, and in general it rarely happens, but when something does happen, it's it's it's a  good reason why there is a little fear-mongering at times. Mhm. What happens when you have an  alternator? I don't know if you ever seen an alternator uh fail and cook a lead battery where  they boil over and they gas off. It It happens.

[00:13:29]It happens in cars. It happens in boats and all  that. What can happen with lithium is you have an alternator that gets out of control and it  starts say a 12V bank is trying to put 15, 16, 20, 30 volts or just keeps pushing amperage in and  the battery is full and the battery is like I'm full. My BMS is seeing my cells get a little too  high. We're getting uncomfortable. So the battery what does it do? It disconnects itself. It has uh  the drop in batteries that BMS has actually a or a solenoid per se internal that'll open the contact.  And so now your charging source, your storage unit, your tank disappears. And so you have this  flood or rush of current. Think of it as water.

[00:14:15]It's got nowhere to go. It's like a like a river  running through something and all of a sudden there's a dam smacked in the way. So now it's got  to find a place to go. and it finds anything with a capacitor, which is a storage unit. So, it first  finds your charger, blows out all the capacitors in your charger. You got digital switching with  capacitors in it. It'll blow up every digital switch on your boat. It'll start finding your  electronics. So, it's not like a fire can start, but it just catastrophic things can happen. Um,  but for that to happen, it takes it's a very very incredibly rare instance that that happens. So, th  those are probably one of the biggest scares with the alternators. There's videos out there with  people doing bench tests with alternators. Here's a standard alternator without external regulation  on a lithium. And if you know anything, sometimes you see them turn up the dials and they're like,  "That's not even real numbers." Like they're just they just push it as far as it go till it smokes  on purpose. They're like, "That's not even real world, right?" So there's some videos out there  that are ridiculous and they're trying to prove a point cuz um lithium's capacity to receive energy  is astronomically higher than lead. you can charge it so much faster and it'll take it in. So, that's  the biggest issue is temperature overheating alternators and damage in them. Those are probably  your biggest concern is shorting the life of your alternator. But what else has to be upgraded when  you're swapping from say AGM to lithium? Yeah, absolutely. Uh the number one is the alternator.  Uh when it comes to ABYC, the easiest way around that cost effective is do a basic DC toDC  charger. your standard alternators on most Volvos or Yammers about 100 amps, approximately 100 to  120. You leave those on your start battery. You take a DC toDC charger from your start battery to  your house and it converts it to the profile and um the profile of of the lithium. And god forbid  your batteries disconnect, you're not going to damage those DC toDC chargers as well as your  alternators are protected cuz it's going to a tank already. it's already going to the start  battery. So, it has a place to go if the house back disappears. So, that's the easiest, most  cost effective way to go. The higher-end way to go is obviously external regulation. When you do  external regulators, you end up doing high output alternators. Alternators cost a couple thousand.  Regulators another thousand dollar. The size of cable you got to put in is about this big. When  you're on a 12V system, your cables cost a couple thousand. So, you're 10, 15 grand. You can spend  20, 30 grand on a high output if you want to.

[00:16:47]So those are the key number one areas. Number  two, most charger these days have uh battery chargers from shore to generator to solar have  lithium profiles. So all you'd have to do is um have the right charger in place. All you got  to do is change the setting. It's pretty simple on that side. It's really um the biggest concern  is installation quality and then your alternators.

[00:17:12]Right. So talking about numbers, you brought it  up a little bit. What is ballpark proper lithium conversion from AGM for let's say a 40ft cruising  catamaran? Um what is the cost of that? Yeah, 40 foot catamaran approximate lithium install  and there's a bunch of variables. Uh you could probably keep it basic under 10 grand pretty  easily. Uh depends on the size of the bank, depends on the quality of the battery. um  depends on if you just want to do a basic drop in uh versus something that's integrating into say  you have a a Victron system already there. So there's a bunch of little variables. Um but  you can get away with under 10 grand easily um on a 40ft cruising catamaran. You get into  alternate regulation, it it escalates quickly.

[00:17:58]And what would you say is the payback versus  the traditional lead acid or AGM? Oh, just time on the water. Uh, I guarantee you'll enjoy it so  much better. Uh, you don't have to pay such close attention. If you drop the batteries too low to  where they disconnect, you're not going to destroy your battery bank. Gotcha. You know, you could do  it a bunch of times. It will shorten the life, but you're not stuck on the water with a dead battery  or you run a generator 24/7 just to get home, right? So, it's definitely a lot more peace of  mind um when it comes to usability on that level.

[00:18:35]And then talking about really true independence,  a lot of the clients that come to us at Current Yachts, whether they are looking for a boat  already equipped or they just bought a boat and they want to upgrade, um, they want to  understand what the the modern charging picture would look like incorporating solar. Where does  power come from on a well setup cruiser? What would that system look like? Could you describe  that for us? Sure.... solar is definitely just the best way to go. I mean, I remember doing  starting to do larger solar installs back in the day. A 1000 watt install was like that was  a big deal, you know, like um because we didn't have lithium as much back then. And now like the  ability uh lithium, another thing with lithium, it absorbs uh power faster, so you get more. Say  you have a huge solar arch on your boat and you switch from AGM to lithium, you instantly gain  30% faster charging just because the nature of uh the batteries being absorbed faster. Um but  yeah, solar is it's it's a beautiful game changer for people. Can't have enough solar on any sailing  or power boat in my opinion because there are days where you don't have enough sun. So it's you can't  have enough solar. that I really think the freedom solar gives you is I think the clients especially  sailors are looking for peace and quiet.

[00:19:58]The more solar you have, the less you have to  run other power sources, your alternator off the engine or even your generator uh to regain your  power back. So, it's it's just I think it's a lot of freedom uh when it comes to having just that  free power and not having to think about running your engines as often. And we heard the words uh  the PWM which is the pulse width modulation versus the alternative which is much more expensive  the max powerpoint tracking or MPPT. Can you talk to us? Maybe this is more advanced  right this is solar and charging 2.0 know, but give us a little bit of your take on that so  our audience can understand where you stand on this matter. That's funny. I had to think about  it for a second because I haven't even heard of uh the alternate in a long time. It's been it's  so far behind now. Um like there's basically if you're selling solar, you're selling MPPT now.  It's it's sort of become the complete standard.

[00:20:57]Uh the rest of it's if you have one on your  boat, it's probably a tiny little thing this big uh from something that had like a one little tiny  panel charging your start battery or something like I haven't seen those in a long time. Yeah.  Yeah. So it it's sort of almost not even in the conversation these days. See just the technology  goes from they gain at least 30% more efficiency out of your panels instantly. They have a little  computer that processes super fast. And there was a point where people were boasting how fast their  processors were the MPPPTs, you know, and Victron used to have one of the fastest and they used to  be the best. And they're still one of the best, but it's sort of become if you're buying solar  controllers, it's just an MPPT. It's not even Got it. Not even a conversation. Got it. So, I'm a  sailor and so I have heard people say, and I don't know if this is true or not, but when the boom  or the sail is covering a portion of the panel, is that killing my whole battery bank if they're  grouped together? Is it sometimes each panel is given its own controller? Is that a thing? Yes,  absolutely. I think uh individual controllers per solar panel is industry standard. There are  some scenarios where wiring you might want to put them in parallel. Uh with shading never series,  but there are a lot of panels when it comes to single controller single panel higher quality  panels have more internal diodes that protect the individual cells from shading. So, in the  past, um, we did videos years ago with a YouTuber where we shaded directly across the panel, and it  literally blocked all power at production by just putting like a 1-in shadow straight across  it. But more modern panels have more diodes that help protect that. Uh, it's obviously the  biggest concern with sailboats. You have lines, you have a giant mast. Um, and I would say the  only time you might get away with doing a few in parallel is you're doing the solar racks in the  back. Uh, when there's less shading, but anytime there's heavy shading, without a doubt, do one per  panel. Yeah. And I was going to add to your point, obviously, you've designed custom solar for  clients. Uh, we've seen with Font PJO, they do a lot more of the deck integrated solar at the  factory. A lot more builders are doing that. Uh what other creative ways are you finding for those  who have older boats, older boats where it's not already integrated? Can you speak to some of the  solutions you've helped create? Sure. Um obviously the easiest go-to is putting some kind of solar  rack or arch on the back. Um from aluminum or stainless, that's the most cost effective way  of going about it. Um, when it comes to adding walk-ons, aftermarket is incredibly expensive, let  al for wiring, let alone covering your deck and having to get custom shapes made. Um, but creative  ways we've been doing a lot of clients, uh, uh, if you have a catamaran trampolines, we'll cover  the trampoline with a semi-flexible panel. If um the pros of it is great to put out when you're  at anchor, the cons is storing it somewhere. Mhm.

[00:24:08]You have to have a big enough boat to be able to  roll up something within maybe the best you can get down is maybe 18 in roll and slide it in  somewhere. Here goes your four peak storage.

[00:24:18]Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So if I've had  clients with such big boats, they carry glass panels and they lay them out where they because  they have they have a big boat and it's a couple on a big boat and they they just don't care. They  have a room they can store things in. So, I mean, that's a great way all the way down to there's a a  couple companies that do what's called sail cloth.

[00:24:38]Ah, it's not for your standard consumer where they  they'll actually put solar in sale, but I've had them produce like canvas attachments where you  could strap it down and like perfectly cover your trampoline or if you have a big sundeck up on  the fly um you can cover the whole sundeck, stuff like that. It's it's depends on that's a little  costlier, a little higher priced uh kind of thing.

[00:25:02]But I've had clients where they go on Amazon  and buy the backpacks for campers where they the panels all fold up and they grab those and they  throw them out. But those aren't exactly designed for salt air and salt environments. So those are  usually a shorter lifespan, those kind of things.

[00:25:20]So, how close do you think we are to for a  cruiser to realistically stop running the generator? I have clients that are there. Um,  it really depends on your comfort level and uh and and your budget. There's a bunch of  different things like it. It really depends how long you want to run your air conditioners.  If you don't care about running air conditioners, we're there. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. If you want to  live like a Floridian and have 68 degrees inside all the time, we're not there. No, we're not  there yet. Right. No, no, not not in any way, shape, or form. Uh the limitations with solar is  that we can improve lithium storage, but solar, the sun can only give us 1,000 watts per square  meter. So, no matter how efficient panels are getting, I think we're best you can buy is 24%  efficient. There's guys in labs doing 40 to 50% on a cell like this big little tiny things. It's  like experimental. Even if we get to 100%, it's only a thousand watts per square meter. It's it's  physics. We're limited. So, we can only go so far on that side. Um I think a lot of it's going to  come in the future technologies with batteries and alternative energy sources is going to be the way  to go. But with solar, you can get pretty close.

[00:26:40]You can go multiple days, even run your aircon at  night for um like say a single cabin uh before you need to run a generator. And on some boats, if you  have enough space, bigger boats and you're very conservative, you almost never run your generator  these days. But again, it comes down to budget.

[00:26:59]Yeah. Because doing that kind of setup does does  cost. Yeah. You have to have a very large battery bank to be able to do that. Yeah. And so to wrap  it up on the solar conversation, Rafael, if you could share with our audience, where do you see  folks typically cut corners and underspend versus overspend when it comes to their solar setup?  Yeah, the I think the underspend is the quality of panel. Sometimes we go for the cheapest you  can find. Um, there's so many options out there, it's hard to even know. Um, for someone like  me that's done it so many years where brands are coming and going. My go-to was LG for the  longest. I'm like I'm like LG is a multi-billion international company. They're never going to  go out of business. They're not out of business, but they got out of the solar business. Like the  DC solar business and there's other brands getting out of the DC solar because micro converters.  there's more money in setting up fields uh for the government or putting them all over houses than  the marine industry that wants a DC solar. So, I think cutting corners is quality of panel.  Like I say, a 400 watt panel. You can spend 50 cents to a dollar a watt on the cheap end. The  better panels are going to cost $2 a watt uh for higher efficiency, better build quality.  So, say you you got a 40-50 foot catamaran, you're going to put a stainless steel solar rack  on the back. You're going to drop 10 to 12 grand in the steel work. And then if you're trying to  save $1,000 on putting four or five panels on, it's it's being foolish. And then also price  shopping for the cheapest guy. There's a difference between a guy that's $2,000 cheaper  for the same install as someone else that's just a little bit more with a the reputation that  stands for years. Um the wires for when people are a couple thousand dollar cheaper, it's usually  the stainless uh is cut short or someone's trying to do it too fast. The wires are too small, the  quality, the wire runs aren't as clean, you don't have all the uh ABYC experienced techs on board  and probably warranty. I was going to ask as well.

[00:29:10]Correct. Correct. Yeah. Having an established  firm that's going to be around for a while, the warranty level uh on the installation as well  as the product uh buying a product that's has good support in the US. That's the same for lithium.  There's a lot of battery companies that Yeah, I can get a lifetime warranty, ship it back to  China. Okay. Yeah. Just buy another one. Sure.

[00:29:31]Exactly. In the next part of the conversation  today, we wanted to talk to you about navigation, electronics, and connectivity. Obviously huge  changes in recent years. You build full Nema 2000 networks from chart plotters to radars and  VHF and so on. For a buyer looking at a boat and wanting to perhaps do an electronics overhaul,  what would you be guessing is a good ballpark for them for again maybe a 40ft catamaran or perhaps a  45ft monohal? you can maybe give us I know it can vary a lot based on components but when you start  the conversation what does that look like? Yeah, I mean uh it goes to the type of boat. Sometimes  it's just space. Yeah, you can fit a 7in plotter on your boat. That's it. You're done. Unless you  just bought a really cheap boat and you have the same amount of money that you bought the boat for  to put into it and then we're building yourself a new helm. I've done that. But yeah, it really  depends on the boat for space cuz a 7-in chart plotter is going to cost you a high-end one, 1,300  bucks. 19inch chart plotter, you're talking about 8 grand. You know, it it depends on is it a power  boat that has multiple screens. Yeah, there's um you can spend 15 grand doing an upgrade  very easily. You can spend 80 very easily as well. Your range just mind-blowing what you can  do. The toys, the toys are insane. That's where you can go absolutely crazy with nav systems and  especially the new AI cameras these days. Yeah, it's it's it's getting fun. Yeah, Nema 2000 is is  is really just so easy to work with. Uh compared to where I started with uh it was Nema enemy A but  0183 it was it's just I don't know how to compare.

[00:31:20]You have a favorite over Garmin, B&G, Rayarine?  You're going to make me say something. Yeah, I have friends. I have friends. So, my my Don't  tell anyone. Yeah, please. Except the listeners.

[00:31:34]My go-to for a couple reasons is usually Garmin.  Garmin is a company that is still owned by Garmin.

[00:31:42]Um, and they've been stable. Their support is  absolutely phenomenal. um when it comes to it to like you go if you're into airplanes or anything  like that, the standard is Garmin. Um for small aircraft, uh in and yachting, they're all pretty  equivalent these days. And people are always like B&G for sailing, B&G for sailing. And yes, if  you're racing and you're really um a tactician where you're really looking at every little  millisecond you can get out, you need a fraction a second faster to get your wind data down to your  processor. B&G absolutely hands down if you're a racer and you you really your life is in racing.  You can use B&G Simrad for any power boat. I mean that a 130 foot sportfish I got called out to once  and I was like why? Cuz the owner wanted the data.

[00:32:36]I'm like okay. Um but Garmin my go-to uh just for  um it's product support mostly. Rayarine's pretty dang fantastic these days. They've had some ups  and downs. They've been bought out a few times.

[00:32:49]The same with B&G. But um honestly it comes  down to preference of the clients. I sort of look at it as I'm the Android guy. Um, Android,  even though I'm an Android guy. Forgive you, Rafael. We forgive you. Okay, we won't judge. No,  I'm sorry. No judgment here. She wouldn't have had me on. Um, so I sort of look at like PNG is like  Android or PCs where there's a you can change and you have more access. Garmin is more like set and  forget it. It's it's limited access unless you're really in deep on the OEM side that you don't  have to think about it as much. And for Boers, usually the Garmin, it's better on that aspect  and it's very intuitive and easy to work with. Um, there are pros and cons to all of them, but when  it comes to the sailing community, it comes down to preface in my opinion. I think they're all  excellent at sailing. Their autopilots are all excellent if properly set up right. There are a  lot of complaints about the Garmin autopilot in the community, but most of the time they've never  been uh dialed in correctly by uh someone with experience. So yeah, it's it's there's a lot of  options out there. And honestly, for people buying older boats that don't have the budget, there's  a lot of new third party. There's a company out there called Orca. There's something called Signal  K out there. It takes all the old data and puts it on Wi-Fi and puts it on your iPad. So you can get  a modern Navionics chart with old equipment with a third-party integrator. So there's a lot of  options out there for for collides. And let's go back to the old AIS transmit versus receiving.  And what would you say that every offshore boat should have and why? Yeah. TX and RX. I just think  about the times where I've seen clients that had uh close calls. Let's call it that. I I remember  early on in my career, I can't remember the boat. It might have been a a 50ft voyage or  something. Really decked out, really nice, all great equipment, but he didn't have an AIS.  Single-handling out in the channels out off off uh in the Atlantic somewhere. and he was just sitting  in there, autopilots on, he was enjoying dinner and all of a sudden he heard he heard a crack  and um he looks up and he sees a giant ship just grazes him and it catched his shroud and ripped  the mast and could have absolutely killed and destroyed his entire boat if they were just off  by a few degrees. And I'm like, "So, what are you doing now?" He's like, "I'm putting an AIS in."  And and the key is for especially for sailboats, these big shifts, the pilot houses are so high.  And if you have a little anchor light or even a tricolor, you can barely see it sometimes. And if  you're just running without a nav lights are down low and your waves are running five, six foot and  your bridge deck's only five, six foot high, they can't see you at all. So having that AIS and even  if they do hit you or come close to hitting you, uh they have no excuse when you have an AIS  because someone wasn't paying attention. But yeah, it's it's an absolute must and the costs are not  that high. The big brands, it's like $1,000 for all the big names for an AIS. You can buy your  VHF nowadays um with the AIS, TX, and RX built-in for about 1,000 bucks. So you get a VHF and the  AIS. Then there's also a lot of other smaller name brands that are half that price that you can  get AIS on board very easily. And now the Bahamas require it, right, to even cruise Bahamas. So  there's been a lot of uptick on smaller boats getting AIS lately. That's good. That's good to  hear. Yeah. I had a silly question from earlier when you mentioned different brands equipment for  electronics. Is it ever possible to mix and match?

[00:36:42]Let's say you buy a boat. It's great minus a few  things. And you want to you want the Garmin truck plotter and it's got a Raymarine system. Yes or  no? Yes. Absolutely. Yes. You can mix and match, but there are limitations. Say you come on the  boat and you have a 5-year-old Raymarine. You're like, "Man, gosh, I don't want Raymarine. I want  my Garmin or my B&G." The first move you make in planning your budget is you change the chart  plotter. So the chart plotter will talk to any of your wind, your depth, any of your other your  smaller navigation communication. It'll also work with your autopilot. The things it won't work with  uh is what is not attached 2000. NMEA 2000 is a standard protocol. So it's standardized so you can  talk on any brand. It's the proprietary high-speed networks. So like your computer network cables  you see on the boat RG45s or the Raynets or the Simnets those connect your chart plotter to other  chart plotters. So you can't mix chart plotters.

[00:37:42]Say you have one inside you only want to change  the outside. That doesn't work. You can't talk to the radars. You can't talk to say your depth  sounder modules or sonar your serious weathers the things that integrate on the high-speed networks.  They're all proprietary. So if you say you have the easiest change out on a simple install is a  chart plot on your radar. That's the first move you make and then over time if you ever eventually  your other equipment starts to fail you start changing your wind and your depth and all those  kind of things as you go. So those are the moves you make when changing and mixing and matching cuz  some people are so picky about a look it doesn't match. A lot less people will make that move but  yeah all depends on Thank you for that. Yeah. So, let's talk about Starlink now and remote  monitoring. It's gone from a luxury, right, that most people couldn't afford to now almost  near standard. Where are you installing this the most? Um, how are you educating your clients  on it? Uh, when it comes to Starlink, yeah, I'll be in Starlink, it's so easy. I mean, I have  I have one sitting in a case behind me. I take the boats just as a backup. It's so cheap. It's so  simple. It's this big. A little Starlink Mini. Um, a lot of clients are doing the installs themselves  these days. I mean, it depends on, you know, they put it out and bring it back when they need  it. Uh, the hiring clients want to have all the wires hidden. They don't want anything to be  seen. So, I get a lot of those installs. Uh, the biggest thing I run into is the usability.  I mean, are you running the business from your boat or are you streaming movies all the time?  Are you an avid sports fan? Do you have to be heavy using or are you using it for email and the  occasional movie or just like you said for remote monitoring like so you need Rafael to jump  in because their boat just shut down cuz the lithium was freaked out uh cuz someone pushed  a button and happened to me yesterday. Um, so you get remote in and you see what's going  on and you can assist the client and then a lot of times I' I've helped people with Starlink in  the middle of Pacific like troubleshooting stuff.

[00:39:47]Yeah. Back in the day if you could afford the sat  phone with the dish in the back it'd be like you can't it was worthless. You spend thousands of  dollars and you make a phone call in the middle of Pacific and you can't understand what's going  on. You can't help anyone. Now you're just pulling out WhatsApp and you're just video streaming and  talking live while you're remote supporting at the same time. So it it's really the data plans.  I think when Starlink first came out, everyone was buying the RV. It was 50 bucks a month at one time  unlimited. Everyone's streaming all day every day.

[00:40:19]Now I had a client recently go out. Avid sports  fans, avid movie goers just love watching TV when they're on the boat. each is a they went out for  a week, came back with a $800 bill uh off of one week and they had a decent plan. So, um I got them  in touch with my buddies at MTN uh who are the commercial uh third party, the biggest Starlink  providers in the world commercially. So, they're the cruise ship guys, you know, all the big big  big commercial boats. I said, "You need to talk to them because they understand it better than  anyone. They got them on a plan that's, you know, they could and it' be 1,000 bucks a month they're  paying, but during football season they're happy to pay it cuz they're watching five g games a day  all day, right? So, for them, the value is there and spending $1,000 a month and then they can  bring it down when season's over. So, it really comes down to usage when it comes to Starlink. And  I'm going to share my my own uh personal warning.

[00:41:14]Uh, make sure you toggle off ocean mode when  you're done with it because ocean mode stays on unless you turn it off. Pro tip. Yeah, that's  me how I know. I've done that as well. That's That's expensive. Yeah, for sure. So, I wanted to  ask you some questions now on evaluating boats. A lot of buyers have questions when it comes to both  electronics, of course, but just the electrical system on board boats. And as you probably  realize, a marine survey is a snapshot in time.

[00:41:42]A general surveyor will typically not go in depth  into reviewing electronics or electric system. And I wanted to ask your opinion on whether or not  buyers looking at a significant investment like you know maybe a boat $500,000 - $400,000 and  up. Should they consider a separate electrical inspection? And if so, who do you hire to do this  sort of thing? Yeah, I mean I think nowadays some of the better surveyors are are studying at the  ABYC. They're challenging themselves. I don't know if it's any standard in the Marine Surveyors  Association or not, but the better ones are getting good at it, but again, like you said,  they're general surveyors, so they understand enough to be dangerous in some ways. So, a lot  of times I'll get calls from surveyors to get an opinion to walk on and do an evaluation of, hey,  I saw this and um I they understand the ABYC code in the install side, but they don't understand  why something's happened because they can't get into the system to test it. So um a lot of times  like someone like Bluewater like myself will come in with a Victron and the Mashable and expertise  uh to come in and dial things in. Uh I think you should if the boat has lithium any way shape or  form or has any higher-end system installed on it.

[00:42:58]A standard AGM basic. You can hire someone like  me just to have a second opinion on because again um like generalists don't trust a generalist to  on a high-end sailboat for rigging. You know, always get an independent rig inspection, right?  It's the same thing with electronics. When you have high-end electronics, you know, get the  specialists out there to look at the things.

[00:43:18]Same thing with diesel engines, get a diesel  expert um to come and look at it. It's if you're making a significant investment and that's  your boat before you pull the trigger fully, you have to spend a little extra money. And it's  a really good point that the general surveyor may have that knowledge or should perhaps cover it.  So, as a buyer, if you're looking at different surveyors and evaluating their services, asked a  question, we recently worked with Scott Miller out in Annapolis. He did a survey with us on a uh Katy  Corbin 48 10-year-old boat. Identified that behind the panel there should have been a plexiglass  separator. now to meet the new EBYC standards to separate DC from AC components and avoiding just  kind of accidents like that. So he pointed that out in the report. It's not a true deficiency  I would say as far as like the priority list.

[00:44:03]It's not at the top, but it is something that can  easily be added and your surveyor if you pick them carefully should be able to tell you how far they  go into this review. And then to your point, uh, Rafael, could be supplemented with a specialist,  especially when there's newer components, lithium installed, and and you want to have absolute  assurance that everything was installed properly and and to your liking. And for our listeners,  their takeaway from listening all the way to the end of this podcast, thank you for that. What  would you want them to know are the red flags to look for? Number one red flag would be owner  DYI installs. Okay. There are some guys that are amazing out there. I've had guys that were um way  way smarter than me not allowed to install their own lithium because their insurance says, "Uh, no,  you can't because you don't do it every day." He's like, "Well, I'm I'm this government designer  engineer. I do a practical hands-on." The guy is brilliant. He had to call me who's I'm pretty  smart, but I'm not brilliant on his level. Like, he's he's freaking physicist, like doctorate, all  this stuff. Super smart. But I had to go do his install. It It was good. It was a good experience.  It's I always like to learn from my clients. Mhm.

[00:45:16]Mhm. I always thought I was pretty smart, so I  met really smart people. And so I like to learn from other people as well as in growing in my  knowledge and experience in life as well. So yeah, DYIs are dangerous. I just was on a boat during  the survey. I got called in, asked how much it would cost to fix it up and clean it up and get  the fire scary hazard of that engine room safe, you know, and it was a I don't know, $8,000  estimate. Ended up being $11,000 cost in the end because I could have probably spent another  10 to make it absolutely perfect, but right, you know, it's it's it was necessary. It was  an owner install, exposed terminals everywhere, 10 wires on one post, and it worked for years and  heavily monitored, but the the risk level was very high. Very high. So, yeah, DYI is look out for  those things. And so, let us translate really quick. What does that mean? If you're a seller,  please hang on to your receipts. Please hang on to the proof of install so that the installer can be  identified easily. the list of the work, you know, completed is is clearly outlined. You can't make  up a receipt from a professional installer. So, just save the receipts for the work that was done  on the boat. And that goes for most maintenance and upgrades, but it's especially important for  electrical. Absolutely. Good advice. Thank you so much, Rafael, for spending this roughly 40  minutes with us. We enjoyed having you and we will put the link to your company, Bluewater  Yacht Tech, in our marine directory so that our listeners know where to find you. Thank you  so much for being with us and we'll see you on the next one. Thank you. Fair winds. Absolutely!  Thank you Maryline. Fair winds. Thank you Amanda.