How Limmys Sold Over 1 Million Swim Products Across 3 Continents with WorldFirst

[00:00:10]Well, great to see you, thanks for inviting me to your beautiful local pub.

[00:00:13]Yeah, it's lovely to show them about the very typical British weather.

[00:00:17]Let's go back to the beginning.

[00:00:18]Introduce yourself, introduce your business and what you do.

[00:00:22]I'm John Greenwood, I'm one of the directors of SL2 Group.

[00:00:25]So we own the brand, the Limmys brand.

[00:00:27]We're an innovator of kids swimming products.

[00:00:29]I've been going since 2018.

[00:00:32]We manufacture and sell all sorts of stuff to do with kids swimming all over the world.

[00:00:37]We're very much an online business at the moment.

[00:00:39]We do a lot of revenue and business through Amazon, creating a brand that we don't have a physical location.

[00:00:47]Yeah, and I thought it was a very interesting time to start a business in 2018.

[00:00:50]How did that affect things?

[00:00:52]We've been in the e-commerce world creating brands and selling online for quite a few years.

[00:00:59]Actually, the whole pandemic side of things wasn't negative towards us because it actually created a massive boom in the online ecosystem.

[00:01:09]Which, when you sell a lot of stuff online, obviously that's not a bad thing.

[00:01:13]And that has actually continued after.

[00:01:16]So it's set a lot of habits for people's shopping behaviour.

[00:01:18]So for us as a business, it wasn't a massive issue for us.

[00:01:25]Well look, before 2018 then, what were you doing and where did the idea for the Limmys originate from?

[00:01:32]This business came about because three of us had a background in e-commerce and we saw it as a great opportunity to use our skills and our backgrounds to come in and do something with a type of product that we were passionate about.

[00:01:46]Starting off focusing very much on the European side of things.

[00:01:50]We've evolved and grown now, so we sell all the way across Europe, UK and North America.

[00:01:55]So there's now 12 people in the business.

[00:01:57]We're all remotely based.

[00:01:59]We don't have a physical office.

[00:02:00]I'm actually the only one that's currently in the UK.

[00:02:02]And then we've got staff in Slovenia.

[00:02:05]We've got a team that we've built in South Africa and Cape Town, which we've built this year.

[00:02:10]And then we've got connections with manufacturers out in China, warehouses dotted around the world, which we use as sort of import hub points for us to bring all our stock in, hold our stock in before we then move it around to the different distribution centres.

[00:02:23]We are truly global in... So this is the unofficial office?

[00:02:27]This is the unofficial office, yes.

[00:02:29]So we've gone from a pub in Great Linford to your factory in China?

[00:02:33]Yes.

[00:02:34]To where?

[00:02:34]Where do your products go to?

[00:02:36]Where are you selling to?

[00:02:37]All over the world.

[00:02:39]So as a business, we are about 60% of our business is within Europe.

[00:02:46]Germany is actually our biggest market.

[00:02:47]Actually, when we set the business up, one of our big areas that we wanted to look at was actually selling in mainland Europe, particularly in Germany.

[00:02:58]We've had a lot of success.

[00:03:00]Working in the German market before it's a brilliant market to work in So we put a lot of effort into the German and European markets as well as the UK market And that's that's paid dividends for us as a business and then we also sell in North America. So we in the US, Canada, Mexico, I've done some work in Japan In the Middle East What I'm hearing is GBP, yen, peso, dollar, euros and there's a lot of currencies that you're dealing with How do you firstly mitigate currency risk when dealing with all of these currencies?

[00:03:35]How do you how do you operate on that international payment level? You've got to use the right people. Yeah, so for us you know, we we've got particularly good contacts with accountants and You know warehouses and everything that that's all you know, the business running of the business side But then from a financial perspective That's where world first comes in Who we work with world first since we first started actually world first has been part of other businesses that we've had before Because it just makes the whole Process of managing multi currencies paying suppliers So much easier. It keeps the costs under control. The exchange rates are fantastic. The speed of it is good It just takes a lot of stress out of the whole process You know it works for us and long may continue like that. It's one less thing that I have to worry about when we first started out with Smaller businesses in this we would use our own bank. We would either use bank You know international bank transfers through our banks or PayPal or Alipay or various different mechanism, which I mean on a really small basis because you don't really feel the pain of the fees and stuff because What you're moving around is whether to be small cause but once you get bigger and you need to scale the solution you need To make it work. It has to scale with you in the past the pain points were Traditional banks, I suppose would would put on people for moving money in between currencies or You know moving money to a Chinese bank We're expensive. We became aware of World first actually fairly early in our journeys It was actually a recommendation that we'd had from some other people that had similar businesses Seems we realized how it worked. It was like why are we doing it the old way?

[00:05:25]and yeah, we've Done it this way ever since and what would you say about world first makes your life easier?

[00:05:33]We know what we're getting You don't have to think about it so much. You know, you know, we know what rates we're getting we know What fees are involved? We're comfortable with the fact that they are as good as we're gonna get. I know we can't get You like everyone you do you do due diligence We know that what we're getting is is very good So you don't have to sit thinking about that anymore because of the way the system set up so that you can save all your all your different pays and you can schedule stuff, you can get everything turned up so when a factory wants paying or we've got bills to pay it is really it's a go in, click, dump and the transfers are so quick now as well that the speed of getting money across now is much better and that's brilliant for from a factory perspective because they're getting the money quicker which means they can get on with the jobs quickly. And who deals with that for you? Who deals all the financing? Who logs into World First every day to see your profits going up, your FX rates holding steady? There's a couple others that do it so I look after P&L, business profitability, business performance, so I'm involved in that side, I use World First. I'm looking at extracts, you know obviously we take feeds from extracts and go into Xero and go into our bookkeeping systems so our accountants also obviously work with that data from a day to day payments perspective, we've got someone out, one of my business partners is involved in that and he's going in and making the payments and but it's not time consuming because it's all pre-set up, you're basically going in and changing your reference number for your invoices and sending the money, it's managed between a couple of these. And you find it easy to manage with multiple people. Yeah it's not, never had any issues. Another area that's actually quite helpful for us is the new world cards system. A couple of years ago when this was being moved up within World First we actually got the call that actually came and met you guys to talk about it and the whole idea of what would it help if there was a basically a card solution as well as just the online banking systems. And to us it's massively beneficial because there's a lot of examples of where you do want to just pay on a card. And traditionally if you want to do it you put it on a credit card or you put it on some other card providers which can be expensive. Your transaction fees, exchange rates and stuff are pretty terrible.

[00:08:02]So when the idea of the card system coming out that was then linked straight back to your account and you could then utilise the accounts and not have the additional fees involved, that was a bit of a no brain for us. So yeah we've been using that since it came out. It's really helpful, we've moved a lot of our recurring payments, payments for some of our software tools or the standing order type payments they've all moved across onto that. Not only is that better from a financial point of view but it's also less work for us because we don't have to go in and pay the invoices every month like we used to have to do. So yeah it's worked and obviously getting some cash back from it. You're not going to stay there to that. What are the other issues that you're facing as a business in the environment that we're living in at the moment? To continue to grow as a business you have to keep evolving and keep looking at what opportunity you've got to keep growing the business.

[00:09:00]We released quite a few new designs of our swim vest and new models of them last year.

[00:09:06]That's going to be fascinating to see how they go this year, I think they're going to go mad.

[00:09:10]So there's a big focus on finishing the rollout and the launch of those and getting them into the mainstream.

[00:09:17]Physical retail placements is the next big step for us and that's a big part of what my role is for the next year is to get that up and running.

[00:09:26]So we're having a lot of conversations with retailers in the States at the moment, talking to some people in Europe to see if we can make it happen.

[00:09:36]That'd be huge for the business. It would take us to the next level.

[00:09:39]Well I think we should put some of your products to use outside in the rain.

[00:09:43]Yeah, it's not so good. I mean one thing I've not actually talked about is about products.

[00:09:48]No, the product. Let's have a look.

[00:09:50]What do I actually do? Our kids swim vest, swim jackets are a large part of our business and this is what we actually started with.

[00:09:59]So our first ever product is this one here. This is the boys swim vest.

[00:10:03]So back in 2018, this is where we all began.

[00:10:07]It's interesting over the years, these have developed with enhanced and new ideas, ways of improving the whole experience of teaching kids, helping kids learn to swim because that's effectively what these are for.

[00:10:20]And that's basically where we started. And this particular one here, what's really cool about them is they're adjustable.

[00:10:27]So in here you've got these little foam floats which you can take out so as the kid learns to swim and gets more confident, you take the floats out.

[00:10:35]And these ones just, as soon as we start to sell them, they just look mad.

[00:10:39]So over the years we've added new ones in, like these ones. This is the girls version, so this is the first girls one that we launched.

[00:10:47]And we ended up with seven different designs, three different sizes of the kids ones. These are great, but there was another opportunity for us to keep being innovative.

[00:10:58]And last year we designed and rolled out our latest evolution of swim vests.

[00:11:04]They serve the same purpose, that's how kids learn to swim.

[00:11:07]But they're a different shape and design because what we realise is that some people want something that they can visually relate to differently as well.

[00:11:13]So these are actually quite similar, particularly in North America, to the idea of swim vests was fairly unfamiliar, it was all lifejacket related.

[00:11:26]So what we wanted to do was come up with something that's still a swim vest that actually can be used to help kids swim, but it was more something that could be related to them all.

[00:11:35]The other big advantage to these is, in this type of design, they can be more adjustable, so they can fit kids as they're able to grow, adjustable straps, and it can actually be used by a kid for a longer period of time.

[00:11:49]We've got four designs of these, I think they're going to do really well.

[00:11:54]And then we also do swimming goggles, for example.

[00:12:00]swim goggles, do them in different colours, you know the colour match because kids like to be cool. That's one of the big things that we're into as well is the design. We're very innovative in the design side of things because we get that kids like to be cool and parents want their kids to look really cool as well. So we put a lot of thought into the designs and the products as well so that's why we do like colour matching swim goggles. So these match with these for example. So there's a pattern in what we're doing. We've got the pink ones that go with the pink vest for example and these are swimming caps for kids. A massive problem particularly for women with long hair is to find the swim caps that fit. So we've got a whole range of different sized swim caps depending on what volume of hair you've got. So yeah it's all about understanding the market and developing things that go where the demand is. And tell me about the testing of these. You were telling me earlier that the factory that you use in China is family run and they've been using the products on their own children. Yeah, it's quite funny actually. I was out there last year and obviously I know our contacts in the factory work really well. We talk socially as well. It's quite fun. She sent me a video of her kids in the swimming pool wearing the hat and the jacket and it was just really cool to see. Where is one of the most interesting places that you've seen limis in the wild? Where have I seen them? I mean I saw some in Mexico when I was in Mexico last year. It's funny when you see, if I go on holiday now and I see kids, you know kids, I'm like you're not wearing a limi swim jacket. But every night and again you see you know in random places you see people with it or I'm having a random, I'm having a conversation with somebody. It's like oh you know what do you do? I do the swim jacket. I bought one of them for my kids. I've played golf with a guy last week. He'd bought some for his kids. It's a funny world. I suppose we've been around for a long time now. We've sold a lot of these things you know. We've got a million different families that have bought stuff from us. We're trusted and people want us to help them go on that journey with the kids. So over one million sold? Yeah. One of the big challenges of selling things that are, particularly for kids, is you can take a two or three or four year old kid and they can be this tall or they can be that tall or they can be this wide. Designing products that actually are both regulatory safe but also comfortable is quite hard. So a lot of work has to go into the design side to make them as comfortable and as fun to wear as possible. Also they still have to be safe. Germany is our biggest market.

[00:14:42]The swim vests are enormous in Germany. France and Italy and Spain we do we sell an awful lot of swim caps but we don't sell a lot of swim caps in America.

[00:14:51]Talking to people in different countries you realise that certain products are just more understood, they're more France for example is really big for swim caps because swimming is taught at every school and the kids have to wear swim caps so they grow up knowing that swim caps is part of their life whereas in other countries it isn't the same.

[00:15:14]So we can take what we learn from these different marketplaces and change our strategies so maybe you want to go into France and push us at an angle or in the States we'll push a different angle because we understand the audience is a little bit different.

[00:15:29]For us as a business we've got things that we want to do to give back as well so we want to do more work with charities for example.

[00:15:38]Swim vests are really valuable for kids with autism that struggle to swim because it's a scary environment and we've had some amazing experiences where parents are writing to us saying I can't believe the difference that your swim vests has made to my boy because he'll now go in the swimming pool and he enjoys himself so we've got ambitions to try and do a lot of work from a charitable basis maybe linking up with certain charities to try and help promote swimming for kids with autism or maybe providing products to schools that are under pressure because they can't afford to buy goggles and swim caps and stuff so for us we're fortunate to have done what we've done and get to where we've got to go to and we can go and do that. It's an important part of what we do.

[00:16:22]Being creative and not sitting still and just doing what everyone else does is so important as a business. It doesn't matter what kind of business you want whether you're producing products like we are or doing anything don't just follow the ground. There's so much to be learnt from being you're just trying something don't be afraid to try because the worst thing can happen is that you fail and you just get up again and do it again but there's too many people that don't try because they're too scared of failing where if you fail it's something you've learned and you're better off for doing it. I encourage people to take risks, a bit calculated risks, don't be afraid to do something just because you're scared of what might happen if it doesn't happen because if you don't then you're never going to find out how you I mean the biggest risk was expanding the business we had to borrow money to expand the business and there's a lot of stress and pressure that comes with doing that but it's paid off for us. As a business we actually used to sell educational toys as well and they were brilliant.

[00:17:34]They were very good. They were STEM toys for helping kids for learning and they were very very successful but there becomes a point in time where that market can flood or just becomes too price-dominant you know the price was kicking and unfortunately you know it just ceased to be a viable financial thing for us to do.

[00:18:00]So a big challenge for us was making that decision to stop selling them.

[00:18:04]And that was actually really hard.

[00:18:06]It was the right thing to do.

[00:18:07]So sometimes knowing when to let go is also quite hard.

[00:18:14]And not cling on to things for the wrong reasons.

[00:18:16]You know, you can very easily get emotionally attached to stuff when you've got a business.

[00:18:20]Whether that's employees that you've got or whether it's products you're producing or whatever.

[00:18:24]And it can make you make bad decisions because your emotions can have too much influence on what you choose to do.

[00:18:33]The days are gone when you could, well the class is the good old days, when you could get anything and check it on Amazon and make money doing it.

[00:18:42]Amazon as an ecosystem for us, whereas it's still one of our dominant revenue string, is changing all the time.

[00:18:50]And it's becoming harder and harder to do it, A, because it's getting more competitive, but also Amazon as an operation is changing as well.

[00:18:58]So there's a lot more emphasis now on sponsored positions and advertising and to make your products visible, you know, you have to pay for the privilege.

[00:19:07]And that's becoming a bigger challenge because that takes money out.

[00:19:10]That's an increasing overhead that you have to bear to make your products visible.

[00:19:15]What's really changing and we will start to see the difference that it's gonna make over the next two or three years is how social media and artificial intelligence is gonna change as a shape of retail.

[00:19:30]And it will, you know, TikTok for example, is changing shop of behavior, where how people discover products is starting to change.

[00:19:36]So as a business, you've got to learn to understand what's going on and go with it.

[00:19:40]And that can be difficult, especially if you've got no knowledge or background in that kind of area.

[00:19:45]People are now using AI to discover products.

[00:19:47]So whereas before you would go to Google and you'd go and look at Swimbust or whatever, people now don't do that.

[00:19:52]Well, all they still do, but there's a growing percentage of people that go, what is the best Swimbust for a three year old kid?

[00:19:59]Or what's the best pink swim cap that goes with this swim vest?

[00:20:04]And then they're buying off that recommendation rather than doing the discovery and the depth in discovery.

[00:20:11]There's a lot of trust that goes into what AI is now feeding back.

[00:20:15]And that's definitely gonna change behavior.

[00:20:19]I don't know what you, but if I'm looking for something now, I'm straight onto, you know, whether you use chat or whatever it is you're using, and it's just become part of data life for so many people.

[00:20:30]We as business owners have to understand that and adapt.

[00:20:34]It's allowing other people to enter markets that they couldn't enter before because it's shrinking the skills gap that exists, the knowledge gap.

[00:20:42]So before, if you wanted to sell a particular product and you didn't know a lot about it, it was a barrier to entry.

[00:20:49]Or whereas now, well, that information is available.

[00:20:53]You can go in and your AI, you know, chat with your community or whatever can tell you how to do something.

[00:20:59]You've got to run.

[00:21:00]that's happening but also how can you as a business then leverage on that to keep a step ahead of everybody else and that's probably the bigger thing to focus on. Don't burn energy worrying about what others are doing. Focus on what you can do to constantly stay ahead and that's a big part of us as a business is doing that.