The Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God exists as three distinct persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) who are co-equal and co-eternal, sharing one divine essence. This concept, while challenging to understand, is presented as a logical framework where the three persons are distinct in their personhood but not in their nature or being, similar to how multiple recitations of the Quran exist while maintaining the Quran's singular divine origin.
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DEBATE: Why should I be a Muslim?Ajouté :
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What's up?
Oh, Friday. Such a lovely day. Going to be a little bit of a shorter stream today. probably only about an hour because it's my wife's birthday today.
So, um it's my wife's birthday today. We're going to go hang out and plus I was live on IP stream yesterday and so you know try to try to keep it chill. So, couple questions already. What's my favorite Dragon Ball saga? I'll tell I'll tell you said happy birthday Strawberry. My favorite my favorite Dragon Ball saga probably it actually well so tough.
It's so tough.
Golly, what's my favorite?
Um, I think I I just have such like the question, what's my favorite I I have such favorite moments from from different sagas, which is why it's difficult for me. I think overall though, I'm gonna go with the Cell Saga. Overall though, I'm going to go with the Cell Saga. And uh, Kev, glad you could uh could catch the live. Yep. I think overall gonna go with the Cell Saga. Uh, I I I mean I like my one of my favorite parts is when Trunks comes in, future Trunks, that's amazing, but it's technically like the Android saga. U, but I think I think the Cell saga is really we're starting to we're starting to hit I think I mean I love some stuff from the Boo Saga, but I think the show peaked at Go on Meeting Cell. Um, God bless. God bless.
Oh man.
I got a couple requests saying about about to bring them up, but I 4:00 in the morning, my apartment building's fire alarm goes off and and it it was like deafeningly loud. You can't you can't turn off the uh the fire alarms. And so we had to go outside, wait for the uh wait for the fire department to get there. They were not in a hurry. They did. They were not concerned. Uh they didn't even show up in their fire gear.
I was like, "What if there was really a fire?" Oh, they just showed up, turned the alarm off, and they're like, "All right, we're out." It's like sick. And then, of course, like took me an hour to go back to sleep because just the adrenaline rush of waking up to your fire alarm. But all right, I'll take I'll take I felt really bad for my dog.
He's right behind me because it's so loud. But all right.
How's it going?
Are you a Muslim?
All right. I got a question for you.
Um, simply put, you know, this kind of a Christian term, but uh it's something that I like to ask Muslims. And before I ask it, I'm gonna make sure the people over on uh YouTube can can hear me.
Um so uh my question is what is the the good news of Islam?
>> Uh the Quran and the final message of uh the last message.
>> Okay. What is that message?
to >> So, so the good news of Islam is that God is one.
>> Yes. And that the message will never be corrupted.
>> Okay. What if there's a religion out there that has better news that has just a better overall um call to to follow that religion? Shouldn't I be more compelled to follow that one?
>> Then you have to prove what that religion is. Sure. But in this religion, God is one as well.
>> But which is that religion then?
>> That religion is Christianity.
>> But you don't have one God.
>> We do.
>> What does what does uh what does Jesus say?
>> Do you know what Jesus says?
>> No. What does he say?
>> He he quotes Deuteronomy and he says that um the Lord our God is one.
>> Yeah, I agree with that.
>> Yeah. You know, the Apostle Paul says the same thing.
H >> you know do you know who Paul is?
>> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think about Paul?
>> I think he contradicted a lot of the teachings of the disciples.
>> Okay. Well, even so, even if you believe that he says that God is one and so Christians, we believe that that God is one. And so, uh if we're on even playing field there, uh there's got to be something else that would determine which one has something better to offer.
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But uh the thing about Christianity is your basic or your basic beliefs is it doesn't make sense. Can I come with one uh problem I have?
>> Uh sure. It doesn't it's not going to convince me to be a Muslim though.
>> No, it's like the trinity because you said this better and then I want to ask you this to make sense of it. Yeah. So, >> so you believe Yeah. So, you believe in a co-eternal in co-equal God, right?
>> Of all the persons in the >> Okay, that's um Yep.
>> But how are they co-equal and co-eternal if the father precedes the son?
>> They're equal in ontology.
>> Ontology.
>> Yeah. So, so if I have a boss, right, I submit to the boss not because he's greater in the fact that of who he is, but greater in his position. So, I'm just honoring that, >> right? I do I do have a boss, but my boss would not look at me and say that he's uh that he's somehow above me. He would look at me and say we we have equality as human beings.
But a boss actually does have there there is an hierarchy. So that doesn't seem like something that's coiterated >> not ontologically which is what we're concerned with.
>> Yeah. But you made an boss reference, >> right?
>> Which is hierarchical.
>> Ontologically my boss and I are equal.
>> Yeah. But that's the issue.
>> That's the issue because when you look at it and then say that the Do you believe that discern is eternally generated?
>> Okay. Does that mean he's created?
>> Yeah.
>> No, but that so he is dependent.
>> No. No. That means he is dependent on the father >> based off what?
>> That he is eternally generated from the father. That means he is dependent on the father. Don't you agree?
>> What is he depending him on for?
>> On being generated.
>> Is he?
>> That's what you guys say. So I just want do you for you to make me an example?
>> So we don't say that. We say he's eternally begotten.
>> Okay. Eternally begotten. So do you say it's biological?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> It's not a biological being. is yes is the father then father's son >> no >> and this is where we see this is where we see distinction in role you're not you're not actually disrupting the ontology of the trinity >> yeah but don't you see how that is problematic the things you're saying and then say they are co-equal because it sounds to me like the son is dependent while the father isn't Do you see my position?
>> Sure. But but not in his divinity. He he's always existed. That's why he's co-eternal, >> right?
And he's the same in ontology, which is why he's co-equal.
>> So he's co-equal due to eternity.
>> Yeah. Can can is anyone exist outside of God that's eternal?
No.
>> Bingo.
>> Yes. But was there a point where the god didn't uh begott the son?
>> There is no point. That's why it's eternal.
>> So he is continually begotting him.
>> We we just use >> the son.
>> We just are using a terminology to um what's the word I'm looking for? to conceptualize their relationship.
Does that does that make sense?
>> So it's easy it's easy in our in our minds to to understand uh their relationship to one another as the persons but once again it doesn't break their their equaleness and their being.
>> Yeah. But this is the issue because I believe that Jesus came and he was actually preaching oneness of God. But all of these ways that we are talking about is a very it doesn't actually make sense you know and I think it's a later philosoph philosophical way to explain uh something that which I don't believe Jesus preach I believe he preached Islam just the oneness of God >> yeah well he definitely didn't just go around preaching that right he preached a lot of things. He uh told his disciples that he was going to die and that he was going to resurrect. Uh he taught a lot about the Torah. Uh and he taught that he was uh the son of man.
>> You still there?
>> Yeah. But why did why did the disciples then run away when he was getting arrested?
>> They're flawed human beings.
>> Yeah.
>> That's not what they did initially. Do you know what do you know what the Do you know what Peter did initially?
>> What did he do?
>> Uh he picked up a sword and he cut off one of the people's ears that was trying to arrest Jesus.
>> But didn't he still run away?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But because >> but that doesn't have any like what bearing does that have on who Jesus is?
>> Yeah. because it's like uh how many uh disciples do you believe there were 12 or 70?
>> Well, you got to define the word disciple, right? When we say the 12 disciples, what we're really talking about is um the apostles, but he had more people who he was like to to follow Christ is to be a disciple.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah. So, we're just using the term you could say the 12 apostles, right?
>> Yeah. But this is the issue because like let's say you I tell you a prophecy that something is going to happen and I believe you are God like you guys claim the apostles were but then when the thing happens this is the moment thing happened suddenly you just run away that that doesn't that doesn't really follow for >> it it does and we can actually see in the narrative uh why So, I'll show you.
It'd be different if it was like if they were acting like that. They just accepted what he was saying the whole time and then and then all of a sudden they were just like, um, no, we're scared. We don't get it. But like when we look at the the narrative, this makes perfect sense.
So, I'll pull it up.
>> Yeah.
Hold on.
Hold on here.
Oh, there we go. That was weird. Okay.
Um, I can zoom in a little bit more. So, this is Matthew 16. So, this is just during um Jes. It's actually it's coming towards the end of of his ministry, right?
>> And um >> and it's interesting Peter recognizes so you can see the title of the passage before that Jesus is the Christ. So he's recognizing Jesus as the Messiah, >> right?
>> Uh so that's good. And and Jesus says to him, he says, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed to this to you, but my father who is in heaven." So it's not it's not uh worldly thinking. It's not thinking from man that he believes that Jesus is the Messiah, which even as a Muslim, right, you're going to agree that Peter was correct in believing that Jesus was the Messiah, right?
>> Yes, we believe Jesus was Messiah, >> right? So he's he's on the right track.
Okay.
>> And then Jesus says to him, from that time, so they disco they've got a they finally believe he's the Christ or you know, whatever. They they've already believed it, but they've said it out loud. Um it says, "From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be unalived and on the third day be raised." So how clear is that that Jesus is teaching his disciples that he's going to die and resurrect?
>> Yeah, >> it's perfectly clear. But interesting, this is what Peter does. It says, "And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, >> "Bar be it from you, Lord." So Peter's hearing what he's saying, he just doesn't believe him.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So it's not that it's not clear.
And then this is interesting. Look what how Jesus responds to him. Uh but he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan." So he rebukes him. Uh but I find this really interesting. He says, "You're a hindrance to me for you're not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man." And so that's that's the issue with the disciples is that Jesus is telling them what's going to happen and they don't believe him, which makes sense. While uh that while when it does happen, they're shaken up by it.
>> Yeah. I to be honest regarding the four gospels I think like it's a later uh way of explaining about Jesus.
I'm not sure how trustworthy I would find those gospels but uh to be honest you should be Muslim. Can I ask you a few things about Islam that you that might make you Muslim?
>> Sure.
>> Do you believe God is one? Yeah.
>> Do you believe it's good to pray daily?
>> Yeah.
>> Do you believe it's good to give to the poor?
>> Yep.
>> Do you believe it's good to fast?
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> Yes. And do you believe it's good to visit the house of God?
>> Uh, sure.
>> Yeah. So that's why I should become Muslim because Islam gives you guidance which other religion don't give you.
>> Okay. Let let me let me ask you this question.
Um >> yes.
>> Do you believe that you're going to heaven >> or to paradise?
>> No. I don't know about that. I hope so >> because maybe we've done so many bad things that we will end up in hell. But as Muslims, we believe all Muslims will eventually go to heaven.
>> Oh, so you think he might go for a hell h health for a time and then go to heaven.
>> I know. I think I don't know where I'm going to be honest. Maybe directly heaven, maybe it hell and then heaven, but I hope heaven.
>> Okay. So >> So do you have a God that cannot forgive all of your sin?
>> I believe God can forgive all sin.
>> Okay. in this uh >> why why hasn't he why do you why do you how do you not know if you're going to heaven or not? Has he not forgiven your sin?
>> Because we don't know how God feels about us. We don't know actually if we have a if we're doing what we supposed to do. We believe in action and faith.
>> Does does Allah love you >> as somebody? Yeah.
>> How do you know?
because he loves Muslims.
>> How do you know?
>> Because he loves Muslims and those who do good. And I try to do that.
>> That's right. So, so the Quran says that that Allah only loves those who do good.
>> Yes. Those who do good and are believers.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> So, uh let me let me ask you this. Have you ever lied before?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. That's bad. Have you ever have you ever stolen something before?
>> No. Never in your life.
>> Never in my life.
>> Okay. Well, still a liar, so we'll keep we'll keep we'll keep that moving, right? You ever said something to someone before that was that was disre disrespectful that they didn't deserve?
>> Possibly.
>> Possibly. Probably.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. You ever you ever disobeyed your parents? You ever disrespected them?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. You ever missed a time of prayer in your life?
Yes.
>> Okay. So, you do bad things. So, how do you know Allah loves you?
>> Because he loves the believers and I'm a believer.
>> But Allah only loves those who do good and you've done bad in your life.
>> Yes. But when you look at the overall picture, we we just can't say, okay, you did that, you did that one thing five years ago. We have to look at the entire picture, you know. You don't just select.
>> How do you know if you've done more good than bad?
>> How do I know if I've done more good than bad? Actually, that's the issue.
That's the thing because we get double or maybe 10 times the reward for doing good than doing bad. So, if I do a bad deed, I might get one bad deed. But if I do a good deed, I might get 10.
>> Okay. So, are you are you just hoping that you've done enough when you die?
>> Of course. There's no way of knowing. Do you do you believe you are safe and going to heaven?
>> Yeah. And this this is this is getting back to my original question when I asked what's the good news of Islam.
>> You see, because in Christianity, >> God has taken care of all of my sin.
That in Christ my sin is atoned for. And I actually know that God sent uh his son to pay for my sin because he loves me.
>> Okay. So you believe you are saved?
>> Yes.
>> And going to heaven?
>> Absolutely.
>> So why don't you end it now?
>> Because I want more people to know about Christ that God's given me a mission and a purpose. He tells his disciples, he says, uh, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." And all the nations have not been reached yet. And so if I were to if I were to end it now, what I'm saying is, uh, God, you you don't have a good plan for my life. I have a good plan for my life and I'm not going to do what you've called me to do.
>> Yeah. But isn't it, don't you want heaven? Why be on earth if you are promised?
>> Absolutely. Yeah. So, so the Apostle Paul, he says, to live is Christ and to die is gain. And so, he looks at his life, just like I said, and goes, if I'm going to be here, I'm going to proclaim Christ to people for the for the forgiveness of their sins, but then when I die one day, I I will gain and have eternal life.
>> Okay. So, do you agree that Christians who don't preach the message, they might as well end it?
>> No.
>> Why not?
>> Well, there's still time for them.
>> Yeah, but they are Christian and they are saved according to you and believe in the passion narrative. Okay. So, why not just end?
>> What if what if God has something for them in in the future of their life that they're not aware of?
>> Yeah, but what's better than heaven? Can you see the problem with this?
>> Yeah, there's there's no problem here. I I do do you think it's a sin to commit suicide?
>> Yes, I do.
>> Why?
>> Because we shouldn't end life that God gave.
>> Boom. So, >> yeah. But you you you believe you are promised paradise right now. If you end it, you're going there.
>> Yeah. Because here's here's here's you want to know a difference between Islam and Christianity?
Well, >> what are you looking for in paradise?
What do you want?
I want blessings. I want eternal to be with God to actually live in peace and peace of mind and stuff like that. That's what we get in heaven.
>> Are you with God now?
>> When I pray, I feel that God is uh I feel like, you know, peace and tranquility from God.
>> Are you are you with God now though?
It's not just like a feeling.
What do you mean by >> are you are you with him >> in terms of what can you explain like is he just with me now?
>> Yeah.
>> Are you with him now or when you go to paradise will you finally be with him?
Uh I believe he is with me in terms of knowledge and he will I will actually get to see him in paradise.
>> If you're lucky he might he might show himself to >> you. Everybody No, no. Everybody will see him in paradise.
>> For how long?
how long he grants is by his how much.
>> So, so in Christianity, I'm not waiting for paradise because I've already gotten what I wanted out of coming to Christ, which is God is with me. And so now I'm just living that out through my life into eternity. And I'll just get more and more of God and being with him for the rest of eternity. So, I don't I don't need to end my life on earth now.
I'll get it in greater and greater glory as eternity goes on, but I'm not actually lacking the thing that I desire here on earth.
>> Okay. So, heaven is basically meaningless.
>> No, but you just said you have God with you now and you don't actually need heaven.
>> No, that's not what I said. I'm just saying I have him now and it will be in greater as I go into eternity. Right?
And the reality is >> you know you know there's a couple things to think about. Uh one is that uh somebody put in the chat like right it's a place without sin because this world is broken. People sin all of the time.
So like you know get get to a place where where there's no sin which would be great. And then the other thing is I forgot what I was going to say. So >> yes. Okay. Okay. Let me ask you this. So you believe that as a Christian no matter how many how many sins you do you can get into heaven just as long you believe in the trinity right?
>> Uh depends on what you mean.
>> Okay. You let's see let's say you do everything bad in life and you believe in trinity Christ and stuff like that you will automatically go to heaven.
>> So >> do you believe that?
>> Uh I would put it like this.
If somebody lives a life of sin and repents and turns to Christ, they will be forgiven and have eternal life. But >> okay, >> if somebody calls themselves a Christian and tries to abuse the grace of God by saying, "Oh, Jesus died for my sin. Now I can do whatever I want." I'm not the I'm not the judge, right? I don't say who a Christian is and who a Christian is not, but I'm pretty confident in saying that person should be very concerned on whether or not they're actually a Christian.
>> So, somebody can proclaim to be a Christian, but if they live a life of sin, they not actually Christian. That's what you're saying.
>> I'm saying, yeah, I I don't know other people's hearts, right? So, that's easily possible. Someone could claim to be a Christian and live a life of sin.
>> Yeah.
>> And there there'd be no reason to believe or not good reason at least to believe that um that they genuinely have their faith in Christ.
>> So let's say like Hitler Schmittler, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> So let's say he said he was believes in trinity. He built 500 churches but still did what he did. Will he go to heaven?
>> Yeah. I have a hard time believing that the mustache man is in heaven.
So you can't say you are saved and going to heaven because you do actually believe that sin have a way to drag you to hell.
>> No, I I'm just not the judge. I'm not the judge of other people. I can have confidence in my salvation because of my relationship with God, but I I have no what authority do I have to say who really believes in Jesus like out there like who who really Like I just don't I can't. It's impossible.
Right. Yeah. There's got to be some sense of this in Islam too, right? Like >> Yes, of course.
>> Yeah. There's there's people that claim to be Muslims, but like you don't know their heart. You don't know what they're doing behind closed doors, right? Like I I just can't I can be confident in my in my relationship with God, in my trust in Christ. I can't I can't get I can't I can't fully know that for anybody else.
>> Yeah. That's why it goes back to what you asked me if I'm going to heaven. Can you see? Because I can't say okay I'm going to heaven because I might have done sins which is actually a position that you agree with now because maybe we just sin so much that we will go to hell for some time and then go to heaven uh finally. So we actually agree on that point.
A little little bit of a nuance there, right? What I'm saying is I can't dictate whether or not other people have right standing with God. But when it comes to myself, >> I can have confidence that Christ has paid for all of my sin, >> past, present, and future. So that when I, you know, when whenever like if tonight, you know, I I get I get deathly ill and I go to the hospital and I'm laying on my deathbed, I'm going to I'm going to have hope in Christ and and assurance of his grace covering my life.
This is this is like think about this.
Think think about this compared to Islam. The reason why I can have confidence is because Jesus died for my sin and rose from the grave defeating it. Which means though I too will die, he has the power to resurrect me. And because I've trusted in him, >> he'll do that.
>> Yeah.
But I I also have issue with the passion narrative. But I think you saying that you trust it because you think you have it in your heart. You think you have true belief. But it could be that you come to the other side according to your belief and find out that you don't actually have true belief or you might have sinned so much that you just go to hell.
>> Well, yeah, I know that I that I haven't sinned so much that that I that I would go to hell, right? How because in Hebrews it says that Christ made a payment for sin once and for all.
the once once and for all my sin.
>> Yeah. But yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, does that also count other Christians like Schmidler?
>> Uh I I don't have any reason to believe that uh that he was a Christian.
>> Yeah. But I'm just using him as an example example because they're also worse question Christians >> we can use. Do you know who Jeffrey Dawnmer is?
>> Yeah.
>> So, do you do you do do you know that he professed faith in Christ at the end of his life?
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, once again, I'm not I can't tell you whether or not that's genuine.
Right.
>> But if he truly did repent and place his faith in Christ, then Christ covered all of his sin.
>> Okay? So even if even the 10 victims he ate and the underage people it don't matter he going to heaven >> still it still matters it's just the justice for his sin is being paid for in the death of Christ just like any other human being this is actually you know the Quran says that Allah is most merciful and most gracious God of the Bible is more merciful and more gracious. Think about think about this level of of mercy and grace that the God of the Bible would say even for Jeffrey Dawnmer I would send my son to go pay for his sin. There there is not a level it's actually even talk it's actually a bit offensive that even for someone like him Christ would still choose to go and pay for his sin if he would trust in him. That is a mercy and grace that unparalleled.
>> Yeah. But I think actually the passion narrative is kind of blasphemous towards God because they're saying that his creation can hurt him.
And for me that seems why should I worship somebody who can be hurt by creation?
>> Jesus actually says that nobody takes his life. He actually lays it down and picks it back up. Right? So, this is a self sacrifice. And that's why even on the cross, he lifts his spirit up. No, nobody's able to take his life, which makes sense. Uh, if he really is God in the flesh, then no, nobody can take it from him. He's he gave it up.
>> Uh, so why didn't he just do it in heaven?
>> Do what? like did do the crucifixion and had the angels do it? Why had why did it have to be humans?
>> You could just start asking all all kinds of questions, right? Like you can come up with with like like I'm sure I can I can give you I can give you an answer, right? Like I think it has to do with with Adam's sin and Adam being our representative for mankind and him breaking our relationship with God. And so Christ comes as the new Adam who uh Romans 5 says that basically by by one man's trespass okay death goes to all men that's Adam and then by one man's act of righteousness salvation to all men that's Jesus right so it like I can give you I can give you an answer but >> but I mean you can come up with with hypotheticals on why why didn't God do it this way why didn't God do it that way right in Islam it says that If there was if there was a in a hadith it says if there was no sinners, God would wipe everybody out and make people who sinned just so he could show his grace.
>> Yeah. But that hadith is to actually comfort people and say, "Yeah, we know you are sinners. That's that's your natural inclination. That's what you do.
>> But we forgive you."
>> I'm just >> that's that's a way to comfort the people.
>> I'm I'm just throwing out an example of like, well, why wouldn't God just do it a different way? Right.
>> Yeah. I think yeah I think you should actually become Muslim because what we talking about now is it sounds very convoluted you know uh you actually prove why you should become Muslim because when you say like like okay God did this God did that God could be hurt by humans it doesn't really make sense and I think God makes sense you What do you what do you think doesn't make sense?
>> Uh the passion narrative, God being generated, uh all these things that we just talked about. I think it just makes sense to say God is one and then say, okay, we are his creation who we were made to worship him and he is a clear guidance on how you should pray to him.
Well, I guess we just uh agree to disagree. We've had a good conversation, but it's gone on for a bit now. So, I uh I'm >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. I'm gonna let you go.
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Have a good one.
>> We could have kept going, but um I was like, h we've talked for we talked for a little bit now, so thought I'd thought I'd let him go. But interesting stuff there. Interesting stuff there.
Good conversation with this guy. Um, I do think, you know, the thing that I find very, you know, very interesting about Islam is is how just anti- trinitarian it is, anti- um, anti-Jesus being God, right? And so it makes it you you kind of hear it. You hear it all the time. This guy was sharing. It's like I they're saying like I just don't I don't understand, right? I don't understand why um why basically Christianity is the way it is.
And um I totally get that when I'm just like watching when I read the Quran and I and I see their their paradigm that they're that they're coming from, right?
Like all over the Quran, it's God is one. like whatever you do, don't associate partners with the law, right?
Don't don't believe in the trinity, right? Uh Jesus never claimed to be God, right? It's all over the Quran. And so it makes sense why uh from their paradigm, they they have such a hard time uh reconciling it, right? Yeah.
It's also anti It's in and it's anti- crucifixion, anti-resurrection.
Um Yep. I I remember you, man.
Um, I'll I'll say this. Um, that's like the that's the core of of really kind of Christian heretical spin-off. Whether it's um Jehovah's Witness, whether it's uh Mormons, right, whether it's uh uh Muslims, it it's all it's all approving on all the things that Jesus is. You know, that the miraculous is fine. He he was a virgin.
He uh you know what else? He didn't sin. Um right like he's the Messiah. All all of these things are are a-ok. Okay until you get to his divinity, right? That's where um that's where it's like no no no no no no. You don't get it. Right? It's like well that's how Jesus is being presented in the gospels.
uh that's how uh his his very first followers understood him uh to be God incarnate. And so um why why 600 years later is it somehow is it somehow different right? Yeah. Uh Viva Lat says everything that leads to salvation is wrong. Right.
which uh which I I you know I'm not a huge like spirituality guy but there's a sense of like man you just have to acknowledge a sense of um just kind of demonic influence right it's like let me get you as close to the truth as possible accept all of the most important parts those are the parts that that need to be rejected which is it's terrifying absolutely absolutely terrifying faith logic. I don't know if I'll ever become become Catholic, man.
I I uh I appreciate it, but um I'm pretty I'm pretty set in my Protestantism for now. Um pretty sad. My uh my stepdad's Catholic.
His whole family is Catholic. Um so there's actually a great uh Catholic church that is near my dad's house. my stepdad's house that I've uh that I visited a few times and it's pretty cool for like Christmas and stuff. So, um uh Vat, what's up? What's your question?
What's the difference between Protestant and evangelist? Maybe you mean like uh uh like evangelical.
Maybe maybe that's what you mean.
Protestant and evangelical.
Um you know it's actually um it's actually really difficult to nail down evangelicalism.
Like if you try to like it's not really defined. Um which makes it uh which makes it kind of difficult to um like obviously there's a sense of like the evangelicals want to uh be evangelistic, right? Um see like I just looked up the term because I want to see what it said. It says the term evangelical refers to a worldwide interdenominational.
So that's why it's hard to distinguish because it's within different denominations and it says interdenominational Protestant movement that emphasizes the authority of the Bible, the necessity of personal conversion, aka a being born again, and the importance of spreading the Christian gospel, right? And so I'm sure you can you can look all into it. But um uh yeah, it's like it's interesting to me because it's like okay, all Christians like hold the Bible as having authority. Um all Christians like believe that they have a relationship u you know with with Christ and all Christians want to spread the gospel, right? So yeah, it is it's vague. It's hard to um it's hard to really put pretty finger out. I will say this somehow though. It's like I know it when I see it. A lot of times there's a lot of fundamentalism that that comes with it, right? There's unfortunately some some like toxic Christian nationalism uh that can come with it. Like like I think a like deconstruction movement is a backlash on evangelicalism. It's not a backlash on Christianity. It is a backlash on the evangelical view of Christianity. You want to get a a firm grip on evangelicalism, go listen to a a person who's deconstructed from Christianity and just listen to their story. Go and and they they'll just as like has nothing to do with the historical church. There'll be like there'll be a bunch of things that they'll list off that it's like you don't even have to hold to this to to be a Christian, right? And so, um, um, yeah. So, that's kind of my my general thoughts on it. Um, you I appreciate y'all liking the live. I don't I don't have any I don't have any guests right now, you know. Don't have any don't have any nobody wants to Nobody wants to convince me to be a Muslim this this afternoon. I know. It's challenging. It's challenging. I was actually I I Here's Here's the fascinating thing.
Faith Logic's the goat. You dude, you got thumbs of steel.
Um it is really interesting to me and I I try to be I try to be balanced. Um because a lot of da a lot of these uh Muslim apologists they that makes sense auto click. There you go. A lot of these uh these Muslim apologists they don't want to defend Islam. They only want to attack Christianity, which I always find really fascinating. It's not not a desire uh to defend Islam, say why Islam uh is true, but it's just a desire to um uh to attack Christianity and say why Christianity is not true, which I guess is fine. The problem is uh hypothetically um Christianity could not be true. It doesn't make Islam true. And in fact, if Christianity is not true, Islam actually has a pretty big problem because it would mean Jesus is not the Christ, which Muslims believe he's the Christ.
It's a real real interesting thing there. Um Ramon, yeah, you you can join if you if you have like a question or something. Um yeah.
Um, but yeah, that's and that's why that's why I actually like doing topics like this because the conversation I just had with a guy, he's not a he's not like this online da debater like he like I legitimately just had a good conversation with him about Islam. We talked we talked about Islam. I I defended Christianity then I pushed back on Islam, right? Had some other things to say about Christianity. like we can actually go back and forth and have a conversation rather than now granted he still wants to to attack the trinity.
That's just like that's just like classic Islam. But he but he's at least was saying like I don't understand it, right? Not like Trinity, you know, like uh so that's the uh it's the interesting thing. Um, but I do also like to see like um I appreciate it. I appreciate the subscription. Um, I do also um like to see what people say. What What are their thoughts when they read convince me? Like Muslims when they read convince me to be a Muslim. Like what is it in their mind that makes them go this is this is why I'm a Muslim. And oftent times uh exactly what uh the guy that I was talking to what he presented right his presentation was God is one right God is one and uh it's like okay now what now what okay God is one sick why should I be a Muslim like that's kind of how that's kind of how I feel particularly right as Christians yeah it's like that's what we believe we believe that God is one and of course you spirals off into into talking about the uh the trinity. And I think it's funny.
It's like if God is not triune, why is there such a need to emphasize his oneness in the Old Testament, right? Like why do why why do you have to say it? Shouldn't it just be uh assumed?
Uh but in the Old Testament, right, we see this emphasis on the Lord uh being one. And then of course we see it uh in the uh New Testament. One of my favorite places is where Paul actually takes the shama in first Corinthians and he includes Jesus and that we have one God and one Lord. So I got a guest over on YT. I'm going to bring him up.
>> Hello.
>> Oh my goodness. Um so Muslims will always bring up the songs of Solomon, right?
>> Uh about Muhammad. Yeah. What's the Songs of Solomon about? I think it's about a husband and wife sharing relationship with each other.
>> Yeah, it's about their marriage. Yeah.
>> Some people would say it's about something else.
>> Yeah. Some people would take some more like allegorical themes. Um but Ramon, let me let me ask you. So you are you do you still are you still saying you're a Muslim or No, >> I'm not Muslim.
>> Okay. How how long I said I don't want anyone to be Muslim if you read that.
>> Okay. Got Okay. Gotcha. Um >> but >> Oh, you did say that. You said I don't want any Yeah. Um but you grew up in Islam.
>> Uh in a Sunni Muslim household. Yes.
>> Okay. Um where are you at now with um Christ like Christianity?
>> Oh, do you remember I was on IP channel?
>> Yeah.
I also doubt that as well if you know what I mean. But shall I role play as a Muslim if you like?
>> No, no, no. You don't have to do that.
Um, what's your what's your uh current kind of what are you just are you do you believe that God exists still or No, >> I believe God exists, but I'm agnostic on what to believe in, if you know what I mean.
>> 100% certain God exists.
>> Okay. Um, then you know, you could probably you could you could go on this forever. Just give me like the 15 to 30 second answer of like, well, what made you think Islam is not true?
>> Well, well, >> what was the main thing?
>> Fact, I can it's a long talk like I had I um I actually have a video on this my confession on my channel. You can watch that.
>> Okay, I'll go I'll go check it out.
>> But I had doubts from the beginning like from when I had a teacher, right?
Um re teacher who was who was a Christian. He said Muhammad plagiarized from the Bible.
>> Okay.
>> But that and that started to creep in.
But then afterwards I found out Muhammad plagiarized from other sources like the Talmud.
>> Yeah.
>> Although he couldn't read or write.
Someone else might have wrote it for him.
>> Sure. Yeah. He's at least hearing the stories, hearing the teachings. Yeah.
>> Yeah. They did call him the year in the Quran.
>> Yeah. Um Okay, that makes sense. So what what then is your >> hiccup currently with Christianity?
>> Hold on. Uh, and then when I left is I left Islam because of Muhammad and Aisha. I know that sounds emotional.
>> No, I I think my Yeah, I I get it. I don't think it's emotional because he's presented he's supposed to be the best example for all of mankind.
Um, and so he clearly does acts that are not the best example.
>> Even a lost person would have relations with a child.
>> Right. Right. Even yeah most you know secular people you know the the the normal human being is going to look at that and say inappropriate. Yeah.
>> Not just inappropriate.
Uh somebody eating mud off the floor is inappropriate.
>> Yeah. I'm I'm just I'm keeping it PG.
I'm keeping it PG. Right. I I try to I you know I'm I have no problem um calling out the things that Muhammad did, but I do try to do it in a way that's not >> umful. Yeah.
>> Um you know, I try I try not to be offensive because I do want to dis I want to talk with Muslims and um >> and so but I'm not going to shy away.
I'm not going to be like, "Hey, he he clearly consummated his marriage with a nine-year-old. This is what your source teaches." I'm not going to reject that.
Um I'm not going to shy away. But so um so then what are your thoughts about Christianity right now?
>> My thoughts on Christianity, like I said in my confession video, like I don't know if you know this, but I used to believe in annihilationism. I don't know if you believe in that.
Uh I I think it's totally possible.
>> But um this is way before my mom died. Way before.
>> Okay.
>> I didn't believe in nationism all of a sudden because my mom died. That would be an emotional reasoning. No, I I believed in it way before my mom died and way before and and when I was in her house.
>> So if you want to check my video out there, >> are you saying that the concept of hell is tough for you for for Christianity?
>> Yes. Even in Islam, they believe in hell. I mean like if you where I get this from is Malachi 4:3 and Deuteronomy uh I know this is about war but it's Deuteronomy 206 to 18 where God says you know wipe out the Canaanites and all the other tribes right >> so that I know it's going to sound stupid, but it's a foreshadowing on what the wicked are the wicked is going to come to. They're not going to come to like eternal torture.
>> Okay. Yeah. Do do you want to know my position? This is how I phrase it.
>> Okay.
>> My position my position is this is that ultimately God is perfectly just, which means he will give people exactly what they deserve. And that leads three options. Either A, um, which would be, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, gosh. Well, we'll get to that. A would be eternal, uh, conscious torment, right? B would be annihilation. And the third would just be, what is the, what is the word I'm looking for? Is there a word for it? Where everyone goes to heaven eventually. Um, somebody tell me the word. I can't think of it. But, uh, right. Those are the three options.
>> Universalism.
>> Universalism. Thank you. Right? Those are the three options. And the reality is that God is perfectly just and he knows what the perfectly just thing is.
And that's what he will give people.
Now, I would roll out universalism because I I don't see it um in the scriptures. Uh, but there's definitely a debate on whether or not God could uh choose to annihilate or choose eternal conscious torment. Um, within eternal conscious torment, I take CS Lewis's view. Are you familiar with his writings and what he thinks about hell?
>> No, because I don't >> Yeah. Yeah.
You should >> you should read if you want to read just a a good >> he eternal conscious torment. That's the question.
>> Yeah. And so his view is that the gate he said he puts it like this. The gates of hell are locked from the inside.
And the idea is the only people that go to hell are the people that want to be there.
and uh he actually wrote a book called The Great Divorce. And it's a um it's a fictional story about a bus full of people from hell that go to heaven. And it's it's it's a fascinating story, but one by one they get back they see what heaven is like. They meet Christians.
They they experience everything. And one by one they get back on the bus to go back down to hell.
And so that's kind of his point is like uh the people that go to hell are the people that want to be there. They're the people that reject God. They don't want him. They don't want anything to do with him. And so they would choose uh eternity separate from him.
So I don't know your thought. You muted yourself, but I don't know your thoughts on that.
>> No, because uh that's still a hard pill to swallow. Sure.
>> If I don't know if you have trouble with hell or you don't.
>> Um I like I said I that's why my view is that God is just and so uh so uh you know well I'm not going to share that. I had a personal story but I'm I'm not going to share it on this. Um I'll just like this. I've I've wrestled with >> people in my own life and their salvation and and what that means for them. And it led me to a place to go, ultimately I trust God. I trust God that he will give everyone exactly what they deserve or he'll give them what Christ deserves, which is to be an heir to the to the to his kingdom in eternity.
Because that's all as Christians, that's what we're saying is Jesus died on the cross for my sins. And so now because he's died and resurrected, he then ransoms me back into relationship with God. And so now essentially I just get treated like Jesus deserves to be treated, which Jesus deserves to be in eternal relationship with the father for all time because he's never sinned against God. And positionally, Christians are in that same place. Not because of what we've done, but because of what Christ has done for us.
Oh, okay. Um, yeah. Also, um, how would you um, let's forget about me for now.
>> Okay, >> we're going to talk about Muslims here, right? Why should I be a Muslim? Um, how would you refute the song not refute the songs of Solomon? Refute Muslims using the songs of Solomon.
>> Uh, yeah, that word there, Muhammadim, in in Psalms 5:16, it's not a name. It's used to describe a multitude of people uh in the scriptures. Um, it's used to describe Ezekiel's wife. So you'd have to say that Muhammad is actually in the book of Ezekiel when it's talking about his wife because she's called Muhammadim. Um it's used to describe people that uh die in the book of Lamentations and Lamentations I think three. And so has Muhammad already come and died? It doesn't it doesn't make any sense because that word is just a description.
It's not a name.
>> I think you should make a video on this.
I mean >> it will. Yeah. and then make a video on Dr. Zaki and I saying that the comforter is not the Holy Spirit when that's what the very next line says.
>> Yeah, I I just I just um posted a video uh debating a Muslim apologist on that very um topic. I just it just posted today at noon on my my YT if you want to check it out. So, >> okay. And >> you can see what he says and he gets frustrated and actually quits. he leaves the conversation.
>> Oh, do you Someone's asking in the private chat the ste the seven. Do you know Greek and Hebrew?
>> Uh, no. I don't speak.
>> There's your answer.
>> I don't know Greek and Hebrew, too. But we know that the Bible was written in those two languages. The the best thing about Christianity unlike Islam, I have to give Christianity credit that you do not have to learn the language of the two scriptures, >> right?
>> You just have to understand the scripture.
>> Yeah. And we are blessed to live in a day with so much access to information, right? I don't like, you know, I I know people that have studied Greek and Hebrew like and they're just like, man, this day and age like, yeah, there's always going to be a place for it and we should always have experts, don't get me wrong, but he's just like it's it's like I just I don't need it because I like I still just refer to the experts like that like and so um it >> I'm going to post my video in the private chat if that's okay with you.
>> Yeah, that's great. And then um after you after you do that, I'm going to I'm going to let you go. I'm going to I'm going to call up uh the uh >> the seven.
>> Yeah. And and have a conversation with him and then I'm going to get off. So or her. So >> Okay. Bless.
>> Okay. Yeah. Thanks, man. You have a good one.
How's it going?
The seven, you are you are on the stage.
The seven left. Okay.
Alrighty then.
What happened? You were waiting.
You were waiting. Did you just Did you just come in to ask a question, a private chat? Was that it?
Faith logic. I believe you. I believe that you that you don't sleep. You just watch debates and stuff. I 100% believe you. And to that I say get some sleep, man.
Get some sleep.
Your body, you know, you'll retain better. Everything's recorded anyways, you know, cuz where are you at again?
You're not in You're not in the You're not in the Are you in I feel like you're like Wait, you're in Texas? I was thinking of somebody else then.
Oh, don't dox yourself, man. Not that anyone. Um Oh gosh.
Um Sweden. That's crazy.
All right. Um gosh, do I want to do this? So, I I talked to this guy yesterday on IP's channel and uh and um and he's a he's a polygamist and he's he's in my he's in my he's in my backstage right now on Streamyard. So, I'm like, do I wanna do I want to have this conversation?
Um, you know what? Who am I? I'm a Glennon.
Let's go. Sword of the Lord, how you doing?
>> How you doing?
>> I'm good. Do you >> I'm doing well.
I know you're not here to convince me to be a Muslim, so um I don't think you are. That'd be weird.
>> No, I just saw you uh live streaming. I noticed you from yesterday.
>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um still still holding on to polygamy, man.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you don't like women or something?
>> Well, I just have one wife and I love her.
>> That's cool.
>> Yeah.
>> But people have to know the truth and understand that polygamy is >> actually righteous.
>> It's hard. It's hard. It's hard to It's hard. I'm I'm be I'm like no disrespect.
It's hard for me to take that statement seriously.
It's really re really tough.
>> Um >> even if God say he has two wives, >> God doesn't have any wives. So >> he calls he calls Israel and Judah his two wives.
>> So So you think God is literally married?
>> Yeah.
>> It's it's it's metaphoric. It's a term for a relationship.
>> Okay. So, let's say that it's metaphoric.
Let's say that it's only metaphoric.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Is God going to describe himself as something that he doesn't like metaphorically?
>> What?
>> Cuz the reason the the verse I'm referring to is Jeremiah 3.
He's describing Israel and Judah as being unfaithful, >> but he's describing himself as righteous, obviously.
>> So, so are are they are Judah and Israel are they the bride of the Lord?
>> Absolutely.
>> Are they also the son of the Lord?
Are they his firstborn?
>> Are they his firstborn?
>> Yeah.
Not in that context of Jeremiah 3.
>> What does the Old Testament call Israel the firstborn of God?
>> Not in Jeremiah 3.
>> Okay.
Does that matter?
>> He's describing himself to be a polygynous.
>> I dude like I don't know how to take this seriously, man.
>> Okay, so let's Let's use something Let's use something more literal because you say it that's metaphorical.
>> Was it metaphorical when he told King David he gave him his wives and would have given him more?
>> No.
>> No.
>> No. It's not metaphorical. King David had multiple wives >> that God gave him.
>> Is it Is it literal when it says the king should only have one wife?
You're talking about No, it doesn't say that. It says he shouldn't.
>> It does.
>> No, he shouldn't multiply strange wives.
>> That's the context of Deuteronomy 17.
>> Pull it up.
>> And that's what King Solomon was confronted about.
Um, check it out.
>> Now, does it does it make sense for God to tell King David kings aren't supposed to have more than one wife?
>> We'll hit this and then I'll answer that. So, it says in Deuteronomy 17:17, "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away, neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold." This is referring to the king. So the king is not supposed to have multiple wives, >> right?
>> That turn his that turn his heart away from God. That he's talking about pagan wives.
>> Oh, that's that's that's who you're that you think it's referring to.
>> Who's going to turn his heart away from God?
>> Having multiple wives.
>> No, Abraham heart Abraham's heart wasn't turned away from God.
>> That's what we see every time somebody has multiple wives. I talked with you about this yesterday, right? That's what we see from Abraham. He takes another wife and he doesn't trust God and they have Ishmael.
>> That's not what God said. God said that and I told you this yesterday in Genesis 26. God said Abraham followed all my laws, statutes, and commandments in the New Testament.
>> And I and I then asked you because I pointed out what are those?
>> The commandments of God. Do you think God's lying? The Torah did not exist yet.
>> Do you think God is lying?
>> The law had not come. Well, I'm asking you. You're saying the commandments of God. I'm saying, "What are those to Abraham?"
>> God is saying he kept his laws, not just me.
>> So, did Abraham lie about his uh wife being his sister? Not being his wife, just his sister.
>> No, he didn't.
>> He did multiple times. Have you ever called a woman Have you called a woman your sister that's not your biological sister?
>> He went into multiple towns and lied to kings about his wife not being his wife.
The Lord reve Yes, he did.
>> He didn't say he didn't say that's his biological sister.
>> I call I call women my sisters sometimes and they're not my >> No, he lied. He lied about her not being his wife because the kings because she was beautiful would take her and he didn't he withheld this information which is a form of lying and not saying hey that's my wife because he was afraid of them. What I'm pointing out to you is that Abraham in one sense can obey God and that doesn't mean that he did it perfectly. Right? So there's different moments in his life where he clearly sins. One would be when he lies and another would be when he doesn't trust God and has uh Ishin. Sarah's guilty too.
>> They have Hagar. He takes Hagar as a wife.
>> Okay. So when Aimilec when he was confronted by God, you do realize that he had he already had a wife, right? And he had concubines.
>> Okay.
So when when God is confronting him in his dream, he said, "I did this in my innocence and my integrity." And God agreed with him. He said, "You know what? Give him his wife back. I agree with you >> because Abraham lied to him. He didn't know."
>> But wait, um, Aimilec, he already has wives and God is saying he's He's just a random king. He's innocent in taking the man's wife from him. He didn't know.
>> But he already has wives.
>> Okay. There's no there's no expectation on this dude to be obeying God. This guy this guy's not even He's not even walking with Yahweh. He's just a random king.
>> Do you agree that God agreed that he's innocent for trying to take a man's wife? Even though he >> in the sense that he didn't know that he was someone else's wife, >> but he already had wives.
>> Okay.
>> He was trying to take another one.
>> And so that just that justifies polygamy for you. That that a pagan king that a pagan king would take Abraham's wife from him and try to make a wife his own.
That justifies polygamy to you.
>> No. The fact that he >> That's what's happening.
>> He didn't know that it was his wife. He was going to take her even though he had even though he already had wives and concubines.
>> Who who is Yahweh?
>> And as a matter of fact in this story >> and as a matter of fact, God healed his wife so they could bear children when he gave Sarah back to Abraham.
>> Okay.
So if he had a problem with polygamy, why would he do that?
>> What are you What are you talking about?
Just because God does gives a blessing to someone doesn't mean that they're not in sin. We're all sinners and still God blesses us with things all of the time.
If I if I see my if I see my friend, I give you an example. If my friend gets sick, okay, let's say my friend's not a Christian. He's uh he's just sleeping with all these girls and um and he's in doing, you know, all this bad stuff. and we pray for him and God heals him. Even though he's in all of the sin, does God not have a right to heal him?
>> I don't understand why you're asking that. Because he's directly >> because just because just because God blesses someone doesn't mean that's not what I'm saying a lack of sin in their life.
>> That's not what I'm saying.
>> I know I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is your example doesn't make any sense. But does >> Yes. Okay. a bless like I've already refuted this I don't >> but does he blessed you for doing something sinful >> he didn't do something sinful in the sense that he didn't know that he was taking someone else's wife there's nothing in the text that says that that is addressing his polygamous you know >> okay so why do we have a law >> why do we have laws in Torah that teaches us how to have multiple wives if God didn't want us to do that this is the law that God gave.
>> We already we already talked about this yesterday, right? And so I brought up another example. There's laws in the Torah, okay? Because this is how laws work, right? They they often stop people from doing bad things, but there's a lot of laws that actually just regulate. Can you say that again?
>> Bad things.
>> Can you say that? Can you say that one more time? I said they often stop people from doing >> they stop people from doing bad things >> but they also regulate things >> even if those things themselves are bad right no >> so yes yes so an example >> how can it stop from doing bad things if it regulates doing bad things >> in the old testament law is slavery does the old testament law allow for slavery >> and I don't have a problem with that at all I'm a slave of god Don't Don't ever talk to me again, man.
I can't.
I can't.
I can't.
There some I got I got a lot of I got a lot of grace. But man, don't don't come on my live stream and uh supporting polygamy and and then just just misinterpreting the the Mosaic law. Like, what are we what are we talking about, fam?
What are we talking about? Absolutely wild.
Whatever. I knew that one was coming, so I'll take it on the chin.
Actually, I just as I talked to him yesterday, like I just wanted I wanted uh I don't know. I wanted my audience to see this. Yeah. Just this craziness.
Just craziness.
absolute craziness.
So, um but um all right peeps, I told you I'd do a short one. I'm actually kind of bummed.
Uh proud Shia Sali. I think it's a little cut off. If you're still you're still there. Um Oh, wait. You want to cook me then?
Actually, I'm down to talk for a sec.
What's up, >> y'all?
How's it going?
>> So, um the prompt is why you no Christian? I'm a Christian because I think you guys believe in uh five gods.
I can't hear you.
I can't hear you.
Here I am.
>> Sorry, I moved my mic and when I did the mute buttons there, I accidentally touched it.
>> Okay, it's fine. Um but uh what I was saying to absolutely nobody um you can hear me right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. What I was saying to absolutely nobody was uh you've already misrepresented the prompt >> was prompt is wait let me reread that.
>> Why should I be Muslim?
>> Yes. Why should I be Muslim?
>> You're a Christian right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. You should be a Muslim because uh we don't believe in five gods.
>> That doesn't make Islam true.
>> Oh. Uh okay. You should be a Muslim because uh the Quran is actually the unchanged word of Allah.
>> Okay. Why? How is it the word of Allah?
Cuz um like basically when Muhammad went in the cave, the angel Gabriel came to him and gave him the Quran and said this is from Allah and it's basically just the un word unchanged word of God.
>> Okay. So is something being unchanged mean it's from God?
>> That's also divine.
>> Okay, great. Right. What is the evidence that it's divine? All you said was that God gave it to him in a cave, but that like >> Well, yeah. Basically, the Quran says it's like divine and stuff and it come from God. So, >> okay. Why should I believe that?
>> It's the un word changed of God. It's the un It's the unchanged word of God.
>> That That was circular. Run it back.
Okay. Why should I believe that it's the unchanged word of God? cuz um Muhammad was prophesized to come. So anything that he says, you know, it's going to be Yeah.
>> Where was he? Where was he prophesied?
>> Uh I think it's in Exodus. Let me just get it.
>> Okay.
I >> think it's like Moses said, "Somebody like me, unique, somebody like that."
Wait, >> it's uh it's Deuteronomy.
Oh, >> okay. My bad.
>> It's Deuteronomy 18.
Let me just find him.
Do you know the exact verse on Deuteronomy 18?
>> Deuteronomy 18:18.
>> Okay.
All right. Here we go. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell he will tell them everything I command him.
So >> okay, is Muhammad an Israelite?
>> No, basically he's like this is Muhammad an Israelite. Uh >> actually not specifically, but he's actually tied to Read the verse again out loud for me.
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I commanded.
>> Awesome. So, how is that about Muhammad if he's if this person's an Israelite?
>> Because basically um they're both the Israelites are descendants of Abraham and then Ishmael was also this is the descendant and then Muhammad descends from them. So he's actually like kind of combined with them.
>> Okay. Muhammad's not an Ishmaelite, so that doesn't matter.
>> No. Does he know like is his people not from Ishmael?
>> Muhammad is not an Ishelite. So >> he didn't descend from them.
>> No, he didn't.
>> Well, it says a prophet. So Muhammad's a prophet.
>> He was like, >> I'm just saying he's not an Ishelite. I mean, he's not a prophet, but he's not an Ishmaelite. So, this can't be about him.
>> Okay. Well, okay. Let's just avoid the Israelite part and go to the prophet part. It says like he >> Okay.
>> So, like both Moses and uh Muhammad talked to God. They both had an army.
Um you know, they're pretty similar. So, and it says prophet as well.
>> Okay. So, we've So he's is he is he an Israelite?
>> Uh he's close he has close ties with them.
>> That's why we got to so can answer this.
Do you think he's an Ishelite?
>> Like exactly an Ishelite.
>> Do you think he's a descendant of Ishmail?
>> Right. He's not a descendant of Ishmael.
So this cannot be about him.
>> But wait, let me get the source up.
Uh >> do you do you know where Ishmael goes once uh once he leaves with his mom Hagar?
>> It's like I don't know. It's like somewhere between the um that river that separates Egypt and Saudi.
>> He goes to the wilderness of Piran.
>> Do you know where the wilderness of Piran is located?
>> Wilderness Piran.
No, actually I don't. Where is that?
>> The wilderness of Pan is located near Egypt. And while he's there, he takes an Egyptian woman as his wife, not uh not an an Arabian woman.
>> No, but I'm saying he's a descendants of him. So basically, >> yeah. Are you are you Quran only or are you Hadith?
>> Oh, no. I'm a Shia Salafi. So I believe in some hadiths, but I only believe in like what the first generations of Muslims teached.
>> Okay, that does it does help your case a little bit still.
>> No, I do accept most hadith. So if there if it's Bkari, then I accept some of them. It's going to have to be authentic. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it is Albukari that says that um well it's in the Quran so it doesn't matter that Abraham >> goes down to Mecca and builds the Cabba with Ishma. Do you agree with that or not?
>> Oh yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That never happened.
>> No, he didn't build it. It was like sent down by God and then they transported it there.
>> Okay.
>> That that never happened. Right. In Genesis, Ishmael goes to uh goes to the wilderness of Piran near Egypt. He stays there for his whole life. Then when he dies, his descendants actually go back up the Mediterranean Sea towards Assyria and end up in Gilead. That's where his descendants.
>> Why should I be appealing to Genesis if I don't believe in it?
>> Why should you appeal to the Quran about an ancient neareastern story? Which one is more likely to be true? The the the the ancient Neareastern uh culture in which it was written in by the people who descended from Abraham or the Quran that comes thousands of years later.
>> It has one little verse that says that Isaac and or that Abraham and Ishmael.
like from my paradigm, I'm just going to be thinking like the Quran's more appealing to me because I I consider like um direct words from God.
>> But I see where you're coming from.
>> I see how like Genesis like farther back.
>> I think it's changed though. So I don't think it's like the same Genesis we have now.
>> I think like later on it might have got changed to include that. But yeah, >> Genesis would cooperate with the historical evidence that the Ishelites never left the Canaanite region.
>> Wait, what? I didn't >> The Ishelites They never left the Canaanite region.
>> Wait, how do you >> They never They never went down to Mecca. I'll actually show you. I've got a uh I've got a scholar talking about their um >> is the scholar Muslim? Uh, I don't know.
>> Okay. If he's he's not a Shia or Salafi, then I don't I don't really take it.
>> Well, that that's that's straight bias.
>> I think you got to let that go a little bit. Like, obviously, you're going to hold on to Islam, but but you got to you got to concede some stuff every once in a while. You know what I'm saying?
>> I mean, yeah, if he has like descendants from the Middle East, I might accept it.
But >> so >> Oh, sorry.
>> Oh, my chest.
>> This this is a quote. We might you know what? I can do this. Bam. So, this is a quote from Dr. Rafa Amari at the Religious Research Institute. So, I don't know if he's Muslim or not, but >> let me just >> He points this out. Um, >> read the whole thing.
>> Okay. Muslims believe that Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael as proof of their position. Muslims refer to uh genois >> genealogies. Yeah.
>> Oh yeah. Genealogies written around 770 to 775 AD by Iben Ishach um when he has written is simply not true. Ishmaalai tribes especially the tribe of uh Naboth from which according to Iben Ishach Muhammad is said to have come when Normanic tribes who lived in sinner >> and fertile crescent desert these tribes disappear after the seventh century BC >> okay what is that what is that saying there before we just keep reading what is he what is he saying about this >> they disappeared after like seventh century so I couldn't Yeah.
>> He's saying, "Yeah, okay."
>> Now he's going to go into Muhammad's family.
>> So Muhammad's family were himites Yemen family while the Ishalites who lived in the deserts of fertile crease crescent became extinct.
Wait, what? Okay. Many many centuries before Muhammad's family left Yemen.
Historians say that the family of Muhammad was a family which lived in Sabah Yemen in the fifth century AD.
Kusia bin Kalab the fifth ancestor of Muhammad gathered an alliance of many Yemen families forming Kar Karash the tribe from which Muhammad later came.
These families only came to occupy Mecca in the fifth century AD. The city of Mecca was built by the tribe of Kuza in the 4th century AD. Muhammad's family is not connected to the Ishmaelite tribe because Muhammad's family uh didn't leave Yemen until the fifth century AD.
And that's about 1,100 years after the Ishelites disappeared. Muhammad's tribe could not have lived in the same location as the Ishalites tribes at any time throughout history.
Oh, okay. I have I have a few questions.
>> Okay.
>> Um, so basically, right, how does he like how does he know all this? I don't understand it.
>> Do you like did you like look at books back then to like get this information like historians rang this type of stuff or >> Sorry, I read a comment threw me off.
Right. I mean, he's just he's just a scholar looking at the history of the IshRaelites. and the family of Muhammad.
And historians have made the connection that their tribes never cross paths.
>> He's a Greek.
>> The Israelites were were gone way way before Muhammad's family ever comes along.
>> No, but this is the thing. I feel like way back in the day, they were like connected, but they then they separated >> based off what? That's just a feeling.
>> No. Um cuz let me find something real quick. I was trying to find it was a hadith. I have to find it.
>> Yeah, it was literally from Mishak as well.
>> Yeah. Ibnshak also says that Muhammad was deceived by Satan and let verses come into the Quran that came from Satan.
>> Oh, okay. We can go into that one sec.
was. Yeah. Okay. Uh let me try to find this as you're looking. I'm just pointing out and he pointed out too like you all you have is genealological claims. Yeah.
>> That don't don't actually match with with history.
They go back to Adna which is uh yeah basically it connects to Ishmael.
My point is right the author of this I I Googled him. He's a Mr. Rafa Mario was born in Jordan and he came from an Arab Greek Orthodox. I'm willing to actually accept that because you know okay fine you know that that actually might have been true. I feel like he might have been a bit biased against us.
It's it's actually the consensus.
Like if you actually want to look into this, like there's there's no legitimate reason to believe that Muhammad is an Ishelite.
Like what it what it would have taken for for Abraham and Ishmael to even get down to Mecca. There's there's no reason to believe that they would go down there. Um do you know do you know how far it was between Mecca and where they were living?
>> Oh, yeah. It was like very long. There's like desert and stuff in the way as well.
>> 840 mi. 1350 km.
>> 800.
>> No, but like they could have used um like horses and stuff.
>> Yeah, that's by by camel it take about 40 days journey.
>> That's f Okay, that sounds reasonable though. 40 days.
>> Let me let me show you how long it is.
Okay. Okay. This is this is the map of Abraham's journey of his life. Okay.
>> Okay. Let me just see this.
>> He even he even goes down to um I might have another one. He goes down um to to even he even goes over to Egypt. So this is kind of the full picture of um >> who >> of Muhammad's life, his journey or Muhammad of Abraham's life, his journey.
>> You walk on this >> throughout his life. Uh probably, you know, probably had um uh animals as well, right? But this is over a long course of time. He starts out in the land of he makes his way over um to the Canaanite region, the promised land that God had promised for him. He goes into Egypt. Then he comes back and he lands uh in the area of Canaan. Okay, look at look at Mecca's not even on the map, right? This is the Islamic claim.
>> Yeah, that looks reasonable in my opinion >> that not >> cuz >> that that he his whole life's journey is about the same length as him going down to Mecca and back just to drop his kid off.
Yeah.
>> Why why is he doing this across the Arabian Peninsula?
>> Because basically, right, when he got um the Ka, which we think is came from directly from heaven, um he ascended to Ishmael to go into Mecca to like work out. Also, is this correct or not? I don't know. Um I think it was I No, it might have been a different one, but I think Isaac did something to get the blessing of Ishma.
No, was that Jacob? Okay. I don't know.
Something like that. Like I think he he he did something and his father was blind and he blessed him instead.
>> Okay. What was Yeah, that's the story of Jacob and Esau. But what does that have to do?
>> Oh, that's Jacob. Okay, never mind.
Never mind. I thought it was uh Ishmael, I think.
>> But anyways, he assigned that to Ishmael. Ishmael went there with him and then uh Abraham came back because that was like his promised land.
>> What I'm saying is this this is what you're claiming right here.
Allah gave them food and stuff in the way just in case.
>> There's no ancient neareastern source that that backs us up. Okay.
>> And if you if you listen to the hadith in Sai Albukari, >> what is it? I think it's uh it's suchari 3364, he says that Abraham went he made this journey right here four times there and back as a very old man. Yeah, >> there's no reason to believe this happened.
>> If it didn't happen, then Muhammad is not an Ishmaelite. He's not a prophet uh of Abraham and Islam is false.
>> Wait, what? How does that?
>> Because the Quran says that it happened.
It says that he and Ishmael went down to Mecca and however you want to, you know, built the Cabba or God sent the Cabba, whatever, whatever you want to say. If this didn't happen, then that's not true and the Quran is false. Therefore, Islam is false.
>> Basically, what we believe is uh Allah sent it down from heaven and then both Ishma and Abraham like carried it all the way to Mecca and like as you know they put it there. Anyways, we have a question about a thingy. Do you guys like Christian Christianity if I can ask because this you actually got me with this. I don't know how to like reply >> be because this is >> it makes sense. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's very difficult like it doesn't make sense why like what is the compelling factor for him to be like you know what I'm going to whereas do you know the bib the biblical story I'll let you ask your question but the biblical story makes much more sense in the biblical story they are hanging out around here >> and when I leaves he only goes over here right which is not that far because in that time. This actually would have been really far, right? Even living 20 miles from somebody else in that time is pretty far.
>> They didn't have horses back then, >> right? They had camels at least. Maybe maybe they had camels, right?
>> Um and then it aligns the biblical story says that I mentioned this that he goes that he dies, right? It says uh the years of life is 137 years. Jab breed last and that they settled in Havala to Shur which is opposite of Egypt the direction of Assyria and they end up it says um in Genesis 37 that Joseph gets sold to the Ishelites who come from Gilead which is exactly where >> that's exactly where this is like where Assyria would would ultimately do you guys know who the author of Genesis is or no? Uh people say it's Moses.
>> Okay. Right. But the question then would be what are the IshRaelites doing back up here if they went down to Mecca?
Because in Judges 8, this is further along. They they run into the Ishraelites again. So all of the history is pointing to the IshRaelites never left this area.
>> No, but they can like separate. Some of them like went to Caba like followed Ishmael to bring the like the um I mean know went to Mecca to bring the Cabba cuz uh they both him and Ishmael carried it there to put it because of God and then yeah not all of them would have been in one place I don't think >> so couple thousand years later against all of history and the Bible it turns out that the The Muslims figured out that Ishmamail actually had had went to to Arabia down >> like phrase it like that sounds a bit >> actually. I know to be honest you got me on this. I don't know what to say, >> bro. That's what the Muslim claim is.
That's what the Muslim claim is.
And it doesn't it doesn't make sense.
Now, here's what would make sense, though. Are Are you ready?
>> Yeah.
As Muhammad wants Islam to spread, he's engaging with Jews and Christians, and there's no better way, at least in his mind, to get them to convert to Islam, but to tell them that he actually is a descendant of Abraham and that he is prophesied about in their scriptures.
Couldn't like the Jews and Christians like like fact check it by like historical books and stuff >> be a lot more difficult in that time.
>> Oh yeah, fair enough.
>> However, they still had Genesis, right? They still had Genesis and they could have read they could have read Genesis and been like, well, that doesn't make any sense. Genesis says that he he went towards Egypt and then his descendants went up towards Assyria.
So when did they go down to Mecca?
>> Okay. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I'm going to look in more into that.
>> All right, you look into it, man. If you have any thoughts, come back. But you said you want to ask me something else.
>> Yeah. Um, basically my local like mom when I went to him, >> I was talking to him about some stuff and he said like Christians believe in five gods >> and I just want to like talk to you about that if that's okay.
>> All right. What do you think?
>> Uh, wait. What? Like there's like different types of like Christians I think, right? like Mormons, Protestants.
>> Um, >> like do you guys all believe in the Trinity, right?
>> Uh, Mormons don't. They're not Christians.
>> Well, I thought it >> No, they don't even call themselves Christians. Like, think about it.
>> Do they not like use the Bible?
>> Uh, they do.
>> I know they use Joseph Smith and that and stuff.
>> Um, oh yeah.
>> Yeah, they use Joseph Smith. He's he's their prophet. Actually, very similar origin story to Islam. I don't know if you're familiar with it.
>> All I know is uh like he was in America. I think he received in in a cave as well >> and he also tried to run for president.
Oh, okay.
>> He did he did try to run for president but um why why are you saying that Christianity has five gods?
>> Basically he told me my imam right his name is Mahi. He told me basically Christians right they believe in five gods. They believe in the essence they believe in Mary. They believe in father, they believe in son, they believe in spirit and then they think that's one god because um all three of them I mean all five of them I mean some I think some believe in three but some believe in five. I think all five of those are god and they have like you said they're distinct so they're different and I was thinking how can there be five different gods but how can it like how do how do you guys think it's one god?
>> It's very it's a very good question. Um, I do want to I want to show you this though in the Quran. Um, >> oh yeah, the Quran also says you guys believe in Mary. I'm pretty sure.
>> Say that again.
>> I'm pretty sure the Quran I don't know the verse. I think it's M. I think it talks about um how you guys believe in Mary as well to be a god.
>> Yeah, that's what I wanted to look at.
>> Okay. It's uh I can get you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh 116 >> 16. Yeah. Yeah. 5. Yeah. 116.
>> What's the number?
>> It's 516.
>> 516. Got it.
>> I can send in the chat. Wait.
>> I got it. I got it. I got it.
>> All right. It says, "And be what?" Let me let me read the Let me read the full thing. Oh people of the book. So I think the book is just going to be Jews and the Christians. Do not exceed the limit in your religion nor say of Allah or but the truth the Messiah.
G Jesus son of Mary has no more than a was no more than a messenger of Allah and a fulfillment of his words through Mary and his spirit created by a command from him. So believe in Allah and his messenger. Do not say trinity. Stop for your own good. Allah is one God. Glory to be him.
um he is far from having a son to him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth.
>> So right and then you get um you get this verse it says and and on judgment day Allah will say oh Jesus son of Mary did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides the law. He will answer, "Glory be to you.
How could I have ever say that I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, uh, you would certainly know it, right?"
>> Yeah.
>> This is actually a mistake in the Quran.
>> A mistake in the Quran?
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. I don't >> because what what do Christians Do you know what we believe in?
>> Yeah. You guys believe in um the I could be wrong. You guys believe in the Holy Ghost, >> the father, son, Mary, and in God's essence.
>> Yeah. No, we do not believe that Mary is uh has ever been or ever was divine.
>> You guys don't think she like he talked about >> the Quran. The Quran made a mistake.
>> Sinless like you guys made Mary sinless and >> some Christians believe that Mary's sinless, but you believe that all the prophets are sinless. Doesn't make them God.
No, but like Mary, you believe Jesus is sinless.
>> Yeah, we think Issa is uh sinless.
>> But you don't think he's God?
>> No, because we believe God is just one person.
>> Because the Quran actually gets the Trinity wrong.
The Quran here, because that's what we believe. We believe in the Trinity. We believe in one God.
>> Yeah. Trinity. Yeah.
>> And three distinct persons, right? But the Quran messes up here and it makes instead of the Holy Spirit God, it says that that Christians view Jesus's mother Mary as God. But Christians have never viewed Mary as God. You won't find anything anywhere about Mary being divine.
>> Didn't Mary give Okay. Wait, so you guys believe Jesus Christ is God, right?
>> Yes.
And you guys believe she gave birth to Mary, right?
>> Yes.
>> So, wouldn't she gave birth to Jesus?
>> Oh, yeah. My bad. Yeah. So, don't you guys think um she's like God as well?
Because she gave birth to God because you guys believe he's Jesus.
>> No, you guys believe the same thing that the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in Mary's womb.
>> No, I know. I'm just saying could But you guys think that um Issa is is God.
So, >> yeah. Did a Mary give birth to God? So that means God gave birth to God because that makes sense. I think I don't think a human giving birth to God is sense sensible.
>> Does Does God give birth?
>> No. No. No.
>> No. Right.
>> But wait, don't you guys wait. Yeah.
>> We don't believe that that Mary is divine. No. No Christian ever. You're not You can't find one Christian writing that says Mary is divine. She is um exalted. She's viewed as a holy person.
She's viewed as valued because she gave birth to Jesus. And certain denominations, you know, >> um really uh you know, pay homage to her. Others don't do it as much. Um I mean, we all we all consider her as blessed because she gave birth to Jesus, right? But she is not viewed as divine in Christianity.
But don't some people like I have a friend, right? His name's um James. He's an Orthodox. He tells me how he like I forgot the word. Start with a V. Okay.
>> I'm pretty sure it just means like praying to Mary and stuff. I think Venom.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Venerator, right? You have an Orthodox friend.
>> Yeah.
>> Ask him uh ask him if he thinks that she's God.
>> He'll say no immediately.
>> Okay. No, but the thing is right, you said there's no sources about like my local Shia told me there is. Like Ahmed, he said um the Christians believe in the five God. They believe in the Holy Ghost, Father, Mary. And he talked about how like Christians pray to Mary.
I'm pretty sure I asked I asked James, yeah, if you guys prayed to Mary. He said, "Yeah, not yet." We said he said, "No, we venerate." But I'm pretty sure What does venerate mean, actually? Wait.
Uh I'm not I'm not an ethn or e orthodox eastern orthodox or Catholic. Um but they're they don't pray to marry in the sense that they pray to God.
>> Yeah. It says to regard or treat someone or something with profound respect and reverence with deep admiration.
>> Okay. Yeah. I thought he prayed to Mary, but okay. Wait, do you you guys believe like the the son be gets from the the spirit, right?
>> From the father.
>> Oh, yeah. From the father. So, doesn't that make him made >> like >> No, he's eternally begotten.
Begotten is just a relational term, right?
>> Yeah.
>> He's not literally begotten. He's just like God is a spiritual being, right?
>> But how does that make sense though?
Because how can God beget God and then how can how can there be um God that p you said something about the holy spirit right >> he he begets from the son or something no something like that I don't know >> yeah so we believe that the the son is begotten of the father and the spirit is uh eternally generated from the father >> wait so how did is there not gods then because you just you said they were distinct, right?
>> Yeah. So they're distinct. They're distinct in their personhood, not in their essence, not in their ontology, not in who they are.
>> So there's one God that is on begone and begone at the same time.
>> No, saying begotten is just a it's a relational term to address the relationship between the father and the son. Right. Now, there's different views of the Trinity within Christianity. I hold to a view called monorarchical trinitarianism.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what our friend told me about. You guys believe like the father is the ark of the trinity and then the son is like you said eternally begotten and he submits to the father.
And he also said the spirit um proceeds from the father.
>> Yes.
Yeah. That's my >> That makes sense when you guys talk about like how um >> so the father >> this is how um this is how Jesus is a different person and yet still God because he is of the same essence of the father.
So their their nature their essence is one but he's different in that he is a different person.
So because they have the um gods uh I forgot what he said all three of them don't have gods something that means the one god right >> yes you want me to give you an analogy >> yes I think that would help >> it's not one to one but how many qurans are there >> uh there's different karats but there's only like one >> bingo >> oh Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. Because you're just using different counting methods. You would say there's one Quran and yet there's different recitations of that one Quran.
So in one sense they are one and in another sense they are distinct from one another but they're still only one Quran.
I think yeah I think the distinction Paul I think I'm fine with that Paul because we also in we think um all those 99 attributes are distinct but the problem >> there's only one God now there are Muslims who have accidentally said that there's 99 gods >> yeah I know those those people are just like whoa >> but but do you see how and this is why I bring up the Qurans because you can see how immediately right um you know I've got two English Qurans here Imagine, do you know the different uh recitations of the Quran? Do you know their names? Any of them?
>> Oh, yeah. There's there's wait.
>> Yeah. Well, I'll just use two as example, right? Like the worsh Quran and the >> Yeah. So that's that's two different distinct Qurans and yet there is only one Quran revealed from Allah.
But >> the problem is we don't think like the Quran began and unbeaten.
Do you think the Quran is eternal?
>> Yes, I do. Actually, I think the Quran, >> right? Yeah, it's eternal.
>> Written by Allah.
>> So, was it eternally written?
>> There's some big What do you mean eternally written?
>> You said it's written by Allah. Was it eternally?
>> Okay.
>> Basically, I think Allah like >> how can something be eternally written?
>> No, he wrote it, right? And because he did, it's just going to be eternal.
How could something be eternally written?
>> It's like cuz from God. God God decided it's going to be >> bingo. The son is eternally begotten because he is begotten of the father.
>> But then that means the Quran is unchanged then.
Well, I'm just I'm just trying to speak your language so that you can see that the trinity actually works. And when we apply it to something else just in terms of counting, it's not a one to one, right? They're not the exact same thing.
But when we apply these method methods of counting to the Quran, it makes sense for you immediately that there's one Quran yet there are distinct recitations whereas there is one God and distinct persons. This is not illogical. It it works.
>> No. Yeah. Okay. Fine. I can see that.
Right. But but like I feel like Wait, can can all three persons disagree on something?
>> No.
Because they're still they're still one being.
>> So all Wait, what?
So I'm saying can all three of them like disagree on something?
>> No.
>> They're of one mind.
>> Can all three of them agree on something?
>> Like like all three? Oh, wait. No. Okay.
I think understand one mind. Yeah.
>> One will. Um Yeah. So like Jesus says this. He's like, "I don't do anything uh except what the father does." I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but he's like, "I don't I don't do anything apart from the father."
>> Uh, but does that make it so like he's learning from the father? He's like a he's like a student because he's saying whatever the father does, I do.
>> So, isn't he like a >> Oh, okay.
>> No, he he the John one says that he uh with the father created the entire world.
>> Oh, yeah. Also, wait, this is this is this one like really got me. My mom also said, "You guys believe a word is God."
Like a a word is God or something.
>> Say that again.
>> Wait, let me get the verse real quick.
>> The word.
>> Yeah. You guys think like an actual word like like a like an actual word is God.
>> You're saying word. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus is the word.
>> It says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. I don't see how a word can be God. That that is not how it makes sense to me. Well, as you're reading it, do you notice it's it's capitalized?
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right. So, this is just a title for the sun.
>> How How do you know this?
>> If you say Okay, >> you just keep reading John 1. You can skip. If you go to John 1:14, it says, "The word became flesh.
>> The word became flesh >> and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory. The glory of one and >> the the only son who came from the father full of grace and truth.
>> But how can a word be? Oh no, but it says wait. It says the glory and only son. Okay.
>> Yeah. So you can see >> I don't know why he said the word. Okay.
Okay. I need to ask that then.
>> Yeah.
>> Basically. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Um, and I do, you know, I want to make a a clear, you know, I worded it, uh, when I used the Qurans, I worded it, um, in a very specific way because, um, I want to be clear, we don't believe, somebody mentioned in the chat, we don't believe in modalism in terms of the father and the son and the spirit are different modes of the same of the same god. Right? I was um using the Qurans to show a distinction in counting. How we can understand how something can be one uh and yet distinct.
>> Wait, no, no, no. But we believe the seven uh Qurans, but these are different like recitations. They're the same, >> right?
>> But they're not really like Yeah, that's >> that's why that's why I said we're not this is not a uh a onetoone >> Okay. Example. You're just showing how like they're still the same, but they can be like distinct. And >> yeah, I'm just Yeah, I'm just showing like we it's we're just you're just changing counting methods.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Well, >> actually cleared up a lot of stuff.
>> Okay. Well, if you ever have any questions or thoughts, man, come come back.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you, bro.
>> Yeah. God bless.
>> You, too.
>> Peace.
All right, peeps. Um, sharing a comment. We got crown 2198 along with that verse. It says that Jesus and Mary are in hell. Does it really say that? What? Hold on.
What is Oh, it kind of does say that.
Oh, I might have to bring this up sometime. So, it says, right? So, so the previous verse says um that they worshiped um you know the son and Mary alongside Allah, right? But then this verse says certainly you disbelievers and whatever you worship which the previous verse says that they worship the son of Mary uh instead of a law will be the fuel of hell. You are all bound to enter it.
That's kind of crazy. Wow. Um um Matteo, DM me on uh on Instagram. That's kind of crazy. That's There we go.
That's That's the Quran verse of the day as we as we u as we call it. So, uh I got a couple guests on and time will tell. Sorry. I'm um I'm uh I'm hopping off and uh I ch usually try to stream from about 2:00 to 4 and uh it's 4. So um and I said I was only going to stream for an hour but then I got some good convers. It always happens. Whatever. Uh thanks. Thanks for the uh the you know the background compliment. Um brother Maverick, appreciate it. Um Amen. Patience paid off.
Uh yeah, you got no you got to do Frieza like that. Bro's a bro's a tyrant. Bro's a tyrant. Tyrant pulled up on planet Earth thinking that he was going to rock some people and future Trunk shows up says, "Not today. Not today, Mecca Frieza." And he sliced him.
Epic.
Absolutely epic. All right.
So, Brother Maverick, it might be past your time, but DBZ is amazing. Dragon Ball Z is amazing.
Um, sweet. Thank you all so much for hanging out with me. Um, yeah, it's my wife's birthday today.
She's actually out with a friend and so when she gets back, I'm gonna hang with her. But, uh, God bless. Faith Logic, you're the goat. All right. You're my Catholic brother.
Uh, ca Catholic s'mores. I did see that Dragon Ball the anime is going to start up again. I'm excited about it. Um, I don't know. That's so sweet. Well, Tik Tok, I'm gonna shut it down. Thank y'all so much. God bless. Have a good one.
Peace out. Bye.
YouTube. Uh, thank you so much for watching my YouTube. Hey, YouTube's YouTube's on the up. Tik Tok is so weird. Last last stream I I had a whole b a whole bunch of viewers. This stream I had more um I had more um YouTube viewers, so I'll take it. And uh what I like about this is people come back and they keep watching it. So uh Brother Maverick, appreciate you popping in chat. Uh take it easy, man. Um everyone in the chat, uh God bless.
Um and um okay, bye.
Hey. Hey.
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