The New York Post Called Him “Gen Z Digital Mogul”: Shamus Madan

[00:00:00]Sheamus, so the the New York Post uh wrote a story on you and your friends calling you guys the Gen Z digital mogul, but how did you go from college or dropping out of college, I should say, to uh to to that whole life?

[00:00:15]>> Yeah. Uh it's been a wild ride. Like it over it looks like an overnight success because we scaled our business to $2 million in AR in 8 months. But the reality is leading up to that was a lot of a lot of work and like years of effort that nobody really um nobody really sees. So to start I started [clears throat] like a podcast when I was like 15, interviewed a bunch of like founders, entrepreneurs, learned how to build and scale a business and decided like one day I want to build my own business. So in January of 2024 I decided to start an agency. Mhm.

[00:00:48]>> Uh, originally we were doing PR, so helping founders get featured on like podcasts, newsletters, publications. The only issue with that is I knew nothing about PR and I like sucked at it. And 8 months in, uh, I got to the point where I had like $13.90 left in my checking account. I was like, [ __ ] like this is not this is not working. And I had two options. Um, one is, you know, shut down the business and admit like my family and friends were all right that it wasn't going to work out unless I went to school or two keep going and try to figure out a different angle. And I physically could not accept failure. So I decided like let me try doing like LinkedIn instead. We did it for our podcast to like grow the show. We could probably do it for companies to like help them build their revenue or get customers.

[00:01:37]>> And that's what we did. Our first client got like 80K in pipeline.

[00:01:40]>> Wow.

[00:01:40]>> Uh in two weeks and we're like, "Holy [ __ ] like this works." So, we pivoted to doing LinkedIn content and I it was kind of doing like LinkedIn content and then we take on all sorts of other small odd jobs just so I could like make a little bit of money. So, we were probably stuck at around like 5K a month all the way up until April of 2025. So, April of last year.

[00:02:01]>> Not that long ago.

[00:02:02]>> Yeah. Not that long ago. And then in April, I decided I wanted to make a change because I was in school for a while >> and I hated school.

[00:02:10]>> Yeah.

[00:02:11]>> School to me, school to me felt like a prison. Like you sit down, you have bells telling you when to leave class.

[00:02:18]You have to ask to go to the bathroom.

[00:02:20]Um every you everything is timed. Your whole schedule is timed. If you're not at this place by this time, like you get punished. Like basically like a prison system for education. And I hated [snorts] it. And I was like, I didn't like how they made everyone think in like boxes. Like if you had any idea even on a test if multiple choice, there could be another right answer, but it's not maybe quote unquote the best right answer.

[00:02:42]>> And I'm like, who who how the do you define what the best right answer is. So I realized school just wasn't for me. Um I it realized this a long time ago, but I tried it. It wasn't going to work out.

[00:02:55]And [clears throat] in April, I decided to make a huge leap.

[00:02:59]I was already on academic probation and I decided to purposely fail all my courses.

[00:03:06]>> Nice.

[00:03:07]>> And get kicked out. And kind of the reason for that is I knew if I I didn't want to put any more effort into into school, but I also really wanted to live in New York and I didn't have the money to do it. And I told everybody I told my friends, family, uncles, parents that I was going to move to the city for the summer after college. And they were all like, "Um, yeah, I mean, like, try.

[00:03:32]>> Yeah, yeah, I can."

[00:03:33]>> And, uh, I was like, "Okay, I will." And I realized I didn't have the money to do it, so I had to go get the money.

[00:03:39]>> So, I would skip all my finals. I would sit in class and just cold DM founders on LinkedIn all day.

[00:03:45]>> Got our first two customers, got to 12K a month. It was just enough for me to move out and move to the city. Yep.

[00:03:51]>> Didn't realize how expensive New York was. A whole bunch of other stuff happened, but yeah. So, you were DMing founders in college, uh, purposely dropping out or purposely failing. Uh, you get to 12K a month and then when was that? What was that time period? Because >> that was end of April.

[00:04:09]>> That was end of April. So, then we go from 12K MR to a whole whole lot more now.

[00:04:17]>> Yeah.

[00:04:17]>> What was that?

[00:04:19]>> What was that year like? What what changed? What what kind of happened in that in that time period? Everything changed like the second I moved to New York. Um it is if I never moved here like I could have tried to build my business somewhere else and I I don't even know if I'd be here like to be honest. Like if I was in um any city in the world outside of like maybe New York and SF I would definitely not be here.

[00:04:40]>> Um and truly what happened is I had enough money. I moved to the city.

[00:04:48]I didn't realize how expensive rent was.

[00:04:50]>> Yeah.

[00:04:51]>> And it's it's it's insane. Side note, but continue. [laughter] >> And I uh I ended up [clears throat] misbudgeting and I was about to miss my rent payment and I was like, you know, I I took out like a stripe capital loan to pay for it >> cuz I had one of my clients that wasn't that was paying me late.

[00:05:08]>> Yeah.

[00:05:09]>> And luckily they paid and it was fine.

[00:05:11]Um but yeah, I mean I took out a loan. I had like literally at the time maybe like a couple grand in my bank account.

[00:05:16]to like one month's worth of like expenses and I was like I mean I mean obviously if it doesn't work out like I'll just go bankrupt. So >> um >> just move home.

[00:05:26]>> Yeah, >> no problem.

[00:05:27]>> Well I I really didn't want to move home. Like I'd probably like full on like live on somebody's couch or like the streets before I did that. I I did that and um basically the the key pivot point for all of this is I went to um I went to this like bath house sauna thing >> going there today funny enough.

[00:05:47]>> Yeah. It's called Other Ship and I was actually invited there by this guy um named Jake Saxs and he used to work at a place called Hampton and they are a membership community for founders doing like north of three million a year.

[00:06:01]Obviously, I wasn't doing 3 million a year. And um I was I was in there and they I DM'd him on LinkedIn and he was like, "Just come through." So, I did.

[00:06:12]And there I ended up meeting this guy as I was leaving. It was like pouring rain.

[00:06:16]Sounds like a romantic romcom. Uh met this guy named Nathan May and he runs like a newsletter growth business.

[00:06:23]>> Yep.

[00:06:24]>> And it was pouring rain and he I didn't have an umbrella and he was like, "Do you just want to get under my umbrella?"

[00:06:30]I'm like, "Sure." And we end up walking to this other dinner place that they were going to that I had no idea I was just gonna I was going to go home. Yeah.

[00:06:37]>> So, I go there and Nathan and I are jamming about like him moving to New York. Like he grew up in like uh like super super poor like in a hoarder house um in Ohio. Uh and and um yeah, he he ended up, you know, taking a big bat and starting his business and now he's he makes like millions of dollars a year personally. He's insane. Um, and uh, there I also met this guy named Zayn who runs a like a Tik Tok uh, shop agency.

[00:07:07]And Zayn told me about this kid named Josh Suggs. And Josh runs a street interviewing ad agency. He dropped out of college and moved to the city. And I thought his story was pretty cool, but I didn't think too deeply into it at the time.

[00:07:21]But fast forward like 3 days later, Josh DMs me on LinkedIn. He's like, "Hey, I heard you dropped out. Dropped out of college. like I dropped out my last semester. I'm living in New York. Like, let's let's jam. And I was like, sure, let's do it. So, me, Nathan, and Josh end up going for a walk on the Westside Highway. And this is where I realized like the true scale of like what what they built and like what young entrepreneurs here in the city have built.

[00:07:45]>> He was 22. He was doing 150k a month. I was like, "Holy shit." Like, if I could be doing 150k a month at 22, I'd feel like a king.

[00:07:53]>> Yeah. Um and uh yeah, he was kind of just like he had so much energy.

[00:07:59]>> Yeah, he's crazy. He's funny.

[00:08:01]>> Absolutely crazy. Um yeah, you you interviewed him, right?

[00:08:03]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:04]>> He's crazy in the best way.

[00:08:05]>> Yeah. In the best way. And it was like this delusional optimism he had that kind of like started to transfer into me. I was like I I kind of like felt stuck and I was like, "Holy." I mean, I was like, "If he can do it, I can do it." Um and one day he just texted me after that walk a couple days later and he's like, "Come work out of this gym.

[00:08:22]All my friends are working here. meet them, just work with us. Yep.

[00:08:25]>> So, I did.

[00:08:27]>> And there I met this guy named Matt Epstein who runs a launch video company.

[00:08:31]He's 24. He does $12 million a year.

[00:08:34]Oliver Brocado, who scaled tabs uh to $11 million in 18 months, sold it. He's now 25.

[00:08:41]>> JT Sarafa, he runs a Tik Tok shop agency, also does millions of dollars a year, 26.

[00:08:48]um Nathan who I I spoke about and a few a few other guys. But we all started working out of this gym together and in here we from you know 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. we build our businesses, work out at night and being surrounded by that environment like taught me uh just taught me like what I actually needed to do. Like I realized a lot of my time I was focused on the wrong things and they kind of told me it's like no no no you're doing this don't do that do this instead. and being around that environment kind of kind of really taught me like how to how to build it.

[00:09:22]And basically um starting we I started working out that gym in maybe June. Uh from June to October is when we hit a million in ARR and then we hit two uh in January. So then we just like blew up. Um >> so yeah, >> the network effect, dude.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:43]>> Network effect is crazy.

[00:09:44]>> Exactly. And yeah, there's really no place like New York for It's funny, your story is like eerily similar to um do you know Zack Pagra? Do you know uh like Aura um Share Aura the the running app?

[00:09:56]>> Yeah.

[00:09:57]>> Um so I think it was like almost probably three years ago at this point where he had this style of video on Instagram that like blew up.

[00:10:05]>> Um and it was like these animated videos. I I I don't really know how to describe them, but um essentially he went from like 3K followers to a million in like three months or so. It was like this crazy blow up. Um but the catalyst was like it was so similar to your story where he's in New York City. uh this guy Danny Miranda uh podcaster um introduced him to these two other guys and then they um they were just kind of talking shop and talking business and entrepreneurship and stuff and one of them was an animator and then they like just started jamming and then they created this style that went on to like it was just mega viral for months and just like absolutely changed his life went from like zero to to uh millions of followers in no time. But it's like I don't think there's many places in the world outside of New York where you can experience something like that. I don't think like I don't know. I guess you could say SF maybe Miami, but I don't know, dude. I I I have my apprehensions when it comes to Miami and business at times, but uh all that to say is like New York's such a a unique place for for something like that.

[00:11:20]>> If you're in your 20s, there's one city to move into out of every city in the world, and it's New York. you will make way more money, get way more opportunity, and meet way more people than any other city on the planet. And I think if if you want to grow your career and like be happy and and you know, meet your life partner, I can't think of a better city than New York.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah, New York is a great place, dude. I have to say, especially like this time of year, it's like it's special.

[00:11:46]>> Yeah, special in the summer. Um, so what was the catalyst for in terms of the growth itself? Um, and just getting clients. Feel like that's tends to be the bottleneck for people when they want to start an agency or already have an agency. It's like [snorts] >> getting clients. Uh, what was that? What was that for you?

[00:12:04]>> The um the big bottleneck there is we I I would be reaching out to clients uh or cold DMing a lot of folks. That's pretty difficult to do at scale.

[00:12:16]>> Totally.

[00:12:16]>> Um it was a very slow burn. Uh, and then, uh, I started working on Josh's LinkedIn and it started ripping and Josh was like, I'm gonna intro you to my ecom friends. Uh, so I started working with his friends who are building businesses and that probably got us to our first like like solid like 15 20k a month. Um, and then after that, I felt like the momentum just started to compile and I was like, "Okay, I have this. I can leverage these as case studies and start talking to other people about the momentum we're generating and then get other people excited and then from there everybody just starts to talk. Yeah.

[00:12:53]>> Um >> and then the the last key thing that we did that was pivotal for the entire business and there was a single LinkedIn post that basically kicked off our entire company. We ended up sponsoring this guy named Andrew Young. He runs like dinners in New York and uh [snorts] we paid we paid him to sponsor a dinner and most people when they they sponsor dinner they'll they go to the dinner give their pitch call it a day whatever because of how well I knew LinkedIn and he had a big following on LinkedIn. I was like, "I'll pay for for the dinner sponsor, but I also I just want a LinkedIn post, too." And he's like, "Okay, sure."

[00:13:30]And we got a selfie and he ended up posting about my story on LinkedIn and it blew up. We got um hundreds of thousands of dollars in closed business through that single post. And that's when I realized like the true power of like leveraging somebody else's audience and and brand and trust. Um because now I mean we've we've ended up partnering with founders backed by Sequoia, A16Z, >> um Primary, all sorts of like really strong companies that came from that post.

[00:14:04]>> Um another key way of how we got our largest client actually uh is like kind of a crazy story, but uh I ended up meeting one of our largest clients through through our through a VC firm I used to work at, and they're a very big company now. They're like a multi-billion dollar dental tech startup.

[00:14:21]>> Oh wow.

[00:14:22]>> Um but when I met the founder, uh he's like 28 years old, super smart, super dialed. We ended up I was living in New Jersey at the time. And he ended up uh he was like, "Yo, do you want to you want to meet for coffee?" And I'm like, "Sure." He's like, "Can you do like early in the morning, like 8 a.m." And I'm like, "Sure." And I had because of how infrequent the trains were, I was up at like 4:30 in the morning. Come to come to come to New York.

[00:14:46]>> And I text him at like 5:00 a.m. to confirm. And uh we I get there and we go to this coffee shop and he's like, "Dude, did you why you were up pretty early like uh you texted me at 5:00 a.m.

[00:14:57]like where do you live?" And I'm like, "Oh, actually like I live like like 2 hours away." He's like, "You."

[00:15:03]And then he was he was like, "You uh you woke up super early and came all the way here just for the coffee." I'm like, "Yeah." And he's like, "Dude, I love the hustle." So we end up skipping the coffee shop entirely. We sat down for breakfast and we just chatted for 3 hours about like business scaling, marketing, etc. Um, and then he told me he's like he's been very under the radar for like a long time, like probably seven years. And he's like, I don't want to do anything, but reach out to me in a year and and I'll do it. And almost exactly a year later, I reached out back out to him. And uh they were like our first like enterprise level client um that we closed uh for six figures.

[00:15:39]>> Um it happened very quickly, like within a week. Um, so that that's how we started to pile momentum and then once we started working with a lot of these businesses, we were able to get a lot of their posts to go viral and then a lot of them would ask like, "Oh, how did how did like who you working with, etc." >> Um, and like kind of that's how how everything started to scale.

[00:15:58]>> Unreal, dude. What I love about that story so much is like um I think very often the digital world people think in the box of the digital world in terms of like client acquisition or just like getting getting clients for you know an agency offer like they're like okay let's do cold email um let's do cold LinkedIn DMing or Instagram DMing or even let's run you know paid acquisition um and very few people like go through the trouble of like trying to do stuff in real life to get clients.

[00:16:34]>> The way I think about it, yeah, in real life is super important. Unreal.

[00:16:38]>> Um, but the way I think about it is uh there's like I mean there's two two key ways to like acquire customers. One is you're going out to them and the second is they're coming to you.

[00:16:48]>> Yeah. Inbound, outbound, >> right? Inbound and outbound. Um, [clears throat] the strongest one is inbound because that one they're much more likely to buy and they also obviously need whatever the hell you're selling.

[00:17:03]>> And what I've spent like the past year on is focusing like how do we just generate as much inbound as possible?

[00:17:11]>> If you think about it this way, it's like what do we need to do to be super attractive so that people will just come to us? Mhm.

[00:17:18]>> If we're going to them, we're automatically going at a at a disadvantage and we're already acting like we're below them.

[00:17:24]>> It's kind of like it's kind of like if you're in a bar, right? And um and if you like approach like a really hot like girl, >> like automatically by default, depending on what you say, you're automatically like considered stat, right? Status is lower because you're the one who approached. Yep.

[00:17:40]>> And it can take a little bit for the status to go back up. Um whereas another in other circumstances you kind of want to be the guy who girls just flock to in the bar.

[00:17:50]>> And it's like okay, how do you do that?

[00:17:52]>> And I think the biggest ways that we've seen that in business or I've seen that in my business is what are the most important things that get other people to want to flock to us?

[00:18:01]>> In this case, it is being very loud. So similar to being like very good-looking.

[00:18:06]>> Um and it is uh being very good. So in in like dating that could be like uh for a guy that could be like being rich or or whatever that might be. Um signaling value. So being good at what you do, signaling value.

[00:18:20]>> Um and then the the the third key way is just like being consistent, like showing up.

[00:18:26]>> Yeah.

[00:18:27]>> Um and that applies to both. And it's like if you can have the the three most important things that are important as a partner and put that in like business, then you can pretty much you can pretty much like Yeah. generate generate a lot of business just through that.

[00:18:41]>> No doubt. How do you think about creating content cuz like you know inbound it the intuitive like easiest way to get inbound is like through you know a really like trying to be that guy when it comes to >> uh like LinkedIn ghost writing.

[00:18:58]>> Yeah. The the honest thing is we just try to do crazy [ __ ] Um, the way I think about content is like if you want to go viral, you have to think about like if you're somebody on the street and you approach them and you say your hook or whatever it is and if they're not going to give you an extreme reaction, whatever you wrote or whatever you said is probably useless.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah, it's a good frame.

[00:19:20]>> Yeah, exactly. So, one is like extreme extreme emotion. And then the second is like maybe like uh having a hint of value. So like what value are you going to give to the reader or the audience?

[00:19:32]>> And the third is can you invoke like a really strong curiosity?

[00:19:36]>> Those are the three most important components within the first 3 seconds to get anything to go viral. And then from there it's just like continuing and following on what you deliver and keeping the keeping the audience engaged. But for us, like for some of my stuff, like we I wrote a post about how I was giving away a Rolex to somebody I hire and like like if you I mean, if you join us, like your your parents are going to hate you was like the hook. Um and then everybody is like first of all, why the is he giving away a Rolex? Yeah.

[00:20:05]Second of all, who the hell is this guy?

[00:20:07]>> Yeah. Second of all, why why would their parents hate them? And then now now they're now they're forced to click the more button and figure out like >> who is this dude? Um, a second is like I uh one of my team members actually used to fly in. She was a student at U Miami.

[00:20:22]>> I saw this post.

[00:20:22]>> Yeah. She used to fly in from U Miami all the time.

[00:20:25]>> Goes man.

[00:20:26]>> Yeah. I'm I'm an alumni as well.

[00:20:29]>> Hell yeah. You Miami. Y >> um she'd fly 1300 miles a week uh and commute to work. Crazy. And absolutely insane.

[00:20:37]>> Insane. [laughter] >> Insane dedication. And I was I was like, "Write a post. Talk about how you fly 1300 miles and commute to work because who the [ __ ] decides to commute 1300 miles [laughter] to work. Like you got to be an absolute deranged lunatic [clears throat] to do that."

[00:20:50]>> Um and then we we wrote about that that got like >> almost 100,000 impressions. It blew up.

[00:20:56]>> Um there are all sorts of other things.

[00:20:58]We I mean have single-handedly taken some of our accounts from like >> close to zero to 100,000 followers in 10 months.

[00:21:05]We we just um we just understand the system really really well and yeah that's that's kind of like our formula for it.

[00:21:12]>> And what's like tell me about like LinkedIn specifically because I have I don't consume content honestly before this week um I haven't consumed >> too much content on LinkedIn like that's not part of my daily routine or anything like that. And so because of that, from a growth perspective in terms of like a personal brand or the business, I've very much ignored that channel just because, >> you know, I don't use it. So I don't assume other people use it that much, which is just so far from reality. Um, but tell me specifically about like the power of LinkedIn. Like so growing on LinkedIn, how like how difficult is it, would you say, compared to other platforms? like um what is the the [clears throat] beauty of LinkedIn I should say?

[00:21:58]>> I would say virality on LinkedIn looks very different from other platforms. So typically when something goes viral on like Tik Tok that could be like millions of views on LinkedIn. I think we've been doing this for like a year and a half and I don't I think we maybe had one or two posts hit a million views. Basically nearly impossible out of like over a thousand posts we've made. Um the virality on LinkedIn is closer to like a couple hundred thousand impressions. So like the difference there is like just uh it's just way smaller in terms of reach.

[00:22:30]>> The benefit is you're reaching way more of >> like a way stronger ICP >> or or ideal customer. So, like if you have something go viral on LinkedIn talking about um a service you're going to provide to business or viral on Tik Tok about a service you're going to provide to business owners, it's much more likely you're going to get a lot more qualified people on LinkedIn that actually hit you up and are interested versus like Tik Tok. Just highly unlikely. Um so that's like the the biggest thing. And then in terms of like generating virality on that platform, like first of all, Rage Bait doesn't really work. Um people hate that. Uh, second of all, like it's all it's it's like a very transactional platform where people are constantly trying to figure out like what they can get out of or or learn from other things. Whereas Instagram, it could be like comedy or entertainment.

[00:23:21]>> It could be [ __ ] posting.

[00:23:22]>> Yeah, [ __ ] post. There's a lot of other verticals. Like the amount of verticals of content styles you can do on like Instagram and Tik Tok are very different from the verticals that you could do on LinkedIn. Um, so that that's one.

[00:23:36]LinkedIn is really just like announcements.

[00:23:39]Uh, so like news updates, celebrations, etc., and like some sort of like tactical insight story posts.

[00:23:47]>> Mhm.

[00:23:48]>> Pretty much it. There's I mean, you can have the occasional comedy post and stuff blow up, but it's highly unlikely.

[00:23:53]So that's kind of like where where LinkedIn falls. So, for myself, um I I have my first LinkedIn post scheduled for probably as of right now. Um wrote it last night after studying your like I was preparing for this episode and I was like looking through your LinkedIn. I was like, "No, it I'm going to post my first post on here. See see what the vibes are." Um what advice would you have for me in terms of like frequency of posting, how to even, you know, know what to post? I've I've written a bit on Twitter and um you know I feel like I have somewhat of an understanding of of copyrightiting principles and that whole world but um what would you have to say to like someone like myself specifically when it comes to like the tactical aspect of of what to do on LinkedIn?

[00:24:40]>> How many followers do you have >> on LinkedIn? Uh I think like 560 or something like that.

[00:24:47]>> Okay. So to start, LinkedIn's really interesting where it's like much harder to get something with like if you don't have like somewhat of an audience to like go viral. So typically we see you need about like a couple thousand and once you hit that like you're pretty much good.

[00:25:00]>> Okay.

[00:25:01]>> Um [clears throat] so what I would do is I would find like about like a couple hundred people that you either want to interview or speak to or become customers and send connection requests to them. Start a couple around like 20 to 30% should accept. Yep.

[00:25:17]>> So, um just start building up the network. Start commenting a lot.

[00:25:21]Comments are being uh are getting a lot more views and attention now. And then also when you're writing posts, I would write posts that that target like the audience to like bookmark or the reader to bookmark it.

[00:25:33]>> So, LinkedIn changed their algorithm a couple of months ago where saves are weighted five times more valuable than a like.

[00:25:41]>> So, anytime you can get someone to save, it's like basically equivalent to five likes. It's like, okay, how how do you um engineer your post so that you can get a save? And sometimes even in our post, we'll just have a quick thing that says like bookmark this for later, like if it's a tactical post, right?

[00:25:56]>> Um and those are like some of the ways that you could do that.

[00:25:59]>> Um so I would say first of all, build a uh following, >> okay?

[00:26:03]>> Um or or like send a bunch of connection requests. Second is I would be posting every day, >> okay? uh for at least a month and see how it is. And then uh third, I would just pick like three to five people that are in your space that are doing something very similar to you and just copy their most viral formats. Okay?

[00:26:25]>> We do it all the time. We copy viral formats of our own clients of other people. We'll take the exact same hook and switch it for whoever their whoever whatever their business is. And pretty much every time it works. So >> y >> I would uh a lot of people try to like reinvent the wheel and try to create something new. I think to start especially to get like your initial engagement, just copy whatever you see already works, change as little as you possibly can, especially in the hook cuz the hook is like 90% of the post.

[00:26:54]>> So if you see like my post for example that says like I'm giving away a Rolex or whatever, do like I'm giving away a car or like keep it like super keep it basically the same thing but only change like one or two things.

[00:27:06]>> Play the adlib game a little bit.

[00:27:07]Exactly. And then after that, you're good to go. Um, and I say after posting for 30 days, you should at least have like if you do it good, you'll have like north of 100,000 impressions.

[00:27:19]Super interesting. I'm thinking currently about like some agency friends of mine or people like with businesses where like I could see it being like a huge lever. Um, do you feel like the like to me it seems like a picture perfect platform for if you like have an agency or want to start an agency and want to get clients for that agency? Do is that kind of a does that feel right in terms of that sentiment would you say? Like who is it ideal for in terms of like if someone's thinking about building on LinkedIn?

[00:27:53]>> Like who is LinkedIn ideal for?

[00:27:55]>> Yeah. like in terms of building a personal brand on there.

[00:27:57]>> Honestly, um I think everyone should be on LinkedIn to be honest. Uh I think if you are if you're like a a working professional or like an employee >> and you're not like posting about all of your wins and things that you're doing um doing as a as a as a team member, >> like you're missing out on opportunities. Um like we have had members of our team get poached because they talk about how like how great >> their like what they've been doing is um or like try attempt to get poached. So people like come out and be like yo like work for me whatever.

[00:28:34]>> You know that's the downside of like having your team do it. But but the upside is that >> a lot more people know about you and you increase your surface area a lot. So, one is I think everybody should be on LinkedIn and you should be talking about like the craziest things you've been able to accomplish, especially if you're in sales, okay?

[00:28:50]>> And you're talking about like let's say you uh let let's say you doubled your conver or doubled your close rate for your company. Like talk about exactly what you did to double your close rate and break it down.

[00:29:02]>> And now anybody in sales is now like, "Holy [ __ ] this guy's an expert. Like, I want him on my team." You're just going to get flooded with more opportunities. and it gives you more more of an advantage play. It's kind of like this. It like I'm I'm going to use like the girl example again, but like if you know like you're really hot. Um or in this case in in in the job world like you're really good at what you do, you should be as loud as you possibly can about it. Um kind of similar to like how if a hot girl like posts on Instagram a lot, like they're going to have a lot more followers and they're also going to have a lot more guys hitting their DMs.

[00:29:37]>> So you just get more opportunities. Same thing goes with LinkedIn.

[00:29:40]>> It's a great analogy.

[00:29:42]>> Yeah. So, I would say that's number one.

[00:29:43]And then number two is like if you're a business owner, executive or doing anything in B2B, you should be on there because it's the number one platform for B2B sales.

[00:29:53]>> Um I've single-handedly driven millions of dollars in sales through LinkedIn um completely organically. And uh yeah, I think if you're if you're not on there, it's um it's a massive uh massive disadvantage.

[00:30:06]>> Super fascinating, dude. in terms of the a like now being in like I don't have an agency I see and talk to so many people who do from the outside looking in it seems like a pretty awesome business model now knowing what you know now being at the scale you know now what do you think of the model you like would you recommend it to somebody like what would you say it's it's a place to start would you say it's the >> like a LinkedIn agency or >> um you could talk specifically about that or just like agency in general.

[00:30:40]>> Agencies are like the I in my opinion like they're the best business to start if you're young because you the biggest thing that you get uh an advantage of isn't as in an agency is you can is you can collect cash up front. So from the moment you start your business you can go out and sell before you even have a product. Like a lot of other like software businesses or ventureback businesses a lot of them it's like okay now I got to raise millions of dollars.

[00:31:05]Now I gotta build this product. Now I got to sell the product. And then you get to the point where you're selling the product and you realize nobody actually gives a [ __ ] about what you just built. So now you got to go back to square zero.

[00:31:15]>> Um versus in like the agency world, if you actually want to, it depends on like your goal. If you want to build like a hundred billion dollar company, don't start an agency because you won't build one. Y >> um if your goal is to like build a lifestyle business and like make money so that you can do like the things you want to do, >> start one. um like uh within like two weeks of when I started my first or when I started the agency, we closed like a uh like a $3,500 a month contract um like in in like a 40-minute call.

[00:31:44]>> And that was like the most amount of money I've ever seen like in a long time. And >> uh if you're like running agency, unless you're an absolute idiot or can't speak English, it's pretty much impossible not to get to like 10K a month in like basically 90 days. Um, you just have to sell a bunch of people and like anyone can really get to 10K a month. Um, if you have an offer that's like 2K a month, all you need is five customers.

[00:32:09]>> Yeah.

[00:32:10]>> And you'd be cool about it. Yeah. You'd be shocked the amount of people that would just spend 2K a month. Even me, like I toss money at things all the time. Like we just hired a agency to do something that that cost us like 5K a month. Like >> um and and we're like relatively small compared to all the other businesses out there. So, all you need to do is find a business that's making a couple million bucks and that's there's like millions of those businesses and you can uh sell all you need to sell is five of them and you have a 10k a month business. So, yeah.

[00:32:38]>> What type of offers in that space right now like are you a fan of is there anything that cuz like when you I feel like when you have an agency or you're just in this online business world, you start to either see other people's offers or just like randomly be on a walk and think of an offer. um any that are speaking to you right now or any like because obviously you know you have a central focus right now but just of ideas that come to your mind that that you're a fan of.

[00:33:02]>> Yeah. Uh I'm going to have a different take take on this probably than most people but I think um uh like I I really don't think you should chase an offer. Um, the only reason our business is successful is because I did not chase whatever offer was like viral at the time or like popping off.

[00:33:23]>> Meaning there are probably so many other offers that uh were being talked about on like Tik Tok, Instagram, etc. Like, oh, um, start this, etc. I didn't chase any of them.

[00:33:35]Instead, I I just focus on like what I thought I was actually really good at, which was content.

[00:33:40]And I've been doing content for at least a few years leading up to that, about three years. So I like had a very strong understanding of like what works and what doesn't work.

[00:33:48]>> And from that moment in time, I realized like, okay, because I understand this so well, I'm going to build my offer around this.

[00:33:55]>> And to be honest, until we like until we like really leaned into LinkedIn, when I started the agency, the biggest question, the biggest objection I would get is like, how do we know LinkedIn is even a platform that we can even sell to? Like how do we know if we can even get sales through LinkedIn?

[00:34:10]Nobody was really doing it at the at like at scale like a year ago. There were a few people doing it but not a lot. Then we started to get like really big. We a lot of our clients started to get really big and now like I never get the question is like I rarely ever get the question on a sales call like does LinkedIn like work like this channel was not even existent like two years ago.

[00:34:31]Like it just didn't exist to the level it exists now. And by all definitions, um, it wasn't an offer worth pursuing because nobody else was pursuing it. But we still built a multi-million dollar business around it. So, I would say if you're looking to start an agency, find whatever it is that you're best at or really really passionate about and figure out how you can serve that that customer. Really doesn't matter what it is. You can build a multi-million dollar business in literally anything. Like there's a guy who build who makes like the little things for Urals that built a $700 million business. Like if you think you can't make a million dollars a year um in any industry, you absolutely can.

[00:35:09]And so I wouldn't worry too much about the offer. I would make sure that it's something you really understand and that you become the best at it.

[00:35:16]>> There you go. Preach, dude. Do you feel like right now with because when I think about the world of ghost shredding from a big picture perspective with like AI and and all that stuff um I'm sure people some people are dissuaded from pursuing something like ghost riding because they're like you know what in a few years right now AI is just going to be right in right away and there's not going to be any any use for a ghostriter. Um, how do you kind of think about that right now with, you know, ghost writing being at the center of what you do?

[00:35:48]>> I think if you understand ghost writing at like a B level or like understand it, okay, you will become absolutely useless and like it'll be very hard for you to do well. If you're like an A+ level tier ghost writer, there are I found it's harder to find a top tier writer who understands content. Yeah.

[00:36:08]>> Than it is to find like a good engineer.

[00:36:11]like they are high in demand jobs where people are paying a more money than ever for them. Um even Anthropic is hiring somebody uh for like 400 or $500,000 a year. Uh PayPal was hiring um for like a uh for their uh um for a head of content for their CEO. One person they were paying like they're they were paying like 3 to 500k a year in total comp. So like it's becoming engineer level salary because attention is going to be the only moat left in this economy. Like technology is now mainstream.

[00:36:44]>> Anyone can build anyone can build pretty much anything from scratch now.

[00:36:48]>> Not anyone can get attention. That's extremely difficult feat >> and um it will be one of the biggest opportunities of the decade and people who capitalize on that are going to make a fuckload of money. So, I think if you are looking to get into ghost writing, for example, just try to figure out how you can become the actual best at that.

[00:37:07]Build a bunch of case studies around it and as long as you're loud about what you do, you can make a lot of money. If you're like okay at what you do and like kind of get it, kind of don't, you're just going to get squashed because like the algorithms are going to have the same understanding that you do.

[00:37:19]>> But even like in our business, we use AI all the time.

[00:37:22]>> Yeah, I was going to ask that.

[00:37:23]>> We used it from the beginning. Um I we were managing like almost a dozen clients with two people. like it was it was incredibly difficult. Um at like I was managing at one point like eight to 10 clients alone and we're ma we're making like basically like 50 to 100 posts a week. Like that's pretty difficult to do unless you have like AI implemented in your business. So we built out like a lot of internal like tools. Um we have our own internal tool.

[00:37:48]We built out a bunch of skills and our goal is to like bring together all this data and train this data so much so that we can build like the best algo for understanding like LinkedIn. And I think we're getting there. We're not quite there yet. I still think it'll take us another 6 to 12 months to fully get there. But because of how much data we have and how many customers we work with and the level and the different industries we're in, we're going to get to the point where we're going to understand the algorithm better than anybody else because of how deeply integrated we are into it. And because of that, we're going to basically be able to scale like 10x uh in like the next year or so. So yeah, >> I'm a huge believer that unique data is a huge moat going forward. Like having unique data that isn't, you know, easily accessible to the public is is such a competitive advantage. Like it's crazy.

[00:38:38]I mean, like you apply the ghostriting analogy. Like I I have a direct to consumer lab testing company and there's a there's an individual I know who's a physician who works with like the top-of-the-line professional athletes and he's created this like pretty much database of everything he's done to optimize you know each individual person. and it's like this incredible database and he like because he had done that for 15 years and aggregated so much data. um his job now is so much easier than it was 15 years ago because he spits out a report now and obviously oversees and insurers but like it has so much data on him and and what protocols he likes for certain things that it's you know almost perfect and I think like unique data really gives you a competitive advantage apart from cuz dude like an algorithm is is like the average you You know it's it's very it's the average of all this data. So if you have a unique set of data that is a combination of outlier data >> Y >> it's going to give you an outlier result.

[00:39:49]>> Absolutely right.

[00:39:50]>> Yeah. Fascinating. And so when it comes to it's interesting dude like I'm I I'm fascinated by the agency stuff and I I think about it from the podcast lens often. Um because like going back to what you were saying before where it's like what maybe not focusing so much on the offer itself but more on like what you feel like you're uniquely good at and what you feel like you uniquely can do. Like my mind goes to the to podcasting for something like that. Um, but as I think about that in terms of an offer, I don't really know how to think about that or what lens or or lane to kind of pursue within that if that makes sense.

[00:40:37]>> What are you like what are your init what are you initially thinking around like podcasting?

[00:40:42]>> Um, as like an offer.

[00:40:46]>> I think that I don't really have a good idea. Like I know I love doing it for myself and love having these conversations with like you know somebody like yourself. Um, I think that there's a lot of founders that, you know, want content, need content and that whole game. Um, so I think that there's something within there of like, you know, doing like a weekly podcast with one founder or something like that to kind of run their that kind of gives them all their content for the month on, you know, all platforms, if you will. Um, but yeah, that's kind of the only idea I have is like, you know, having a few clients that that you kind of record and interview them each week or each month or something.

[00:41:25]>> Yeah, that could be a good idea. I mean, we we want obviously we have a podcast when I get started, but >> um [clears throat] like we obviously need somebody to run it. So, you could do like full service podcast production is another one.

[00:41:39]>> I I would just experiment. Like I would start, >> you know, giving the offer out to people and being like, "Okay, like >> uh for example, if you have a bunch of friends that are founders, uh or know a bunch of founders, I'd be like, "Hey, like starting this thing. Want to create some content for you? Um would you pay me like thousand bucks for for like you know what, whatever for one interview and we'll flip it up." And then pretty much everybody will say yes cuz it's like pretty low low amount. Y >> um and then once you do that, if anything starts to like pop, then it's like, okay, cool. Now I can leverage this for case studies and tell other people, hey, I did this with this person.

[00:42:15]>> We can do the same thing with you. Costs 5,000 now.

[00:42:18]>> Y >> um I would try that.

[00:42:20]>> Yeah, it's interesting, dude. It's it's interesting. I probably don't have the time for it. I just always think about it like in the lens of the podcast just because it's like, you know, what I enjoy doing more than anything else. So, I'm always kind of >> it's always on on top of mind, you know.

[00:42:33]Um, >> anything we haven't talked about that we'd be remissed if we didn't cover you think is just important in the context of this conversation?

[00:42:40]>> Um, I think we covered pretty much everything.

[00:42:45]>> Awesome. Really? Well, dude, I appreciate you taking the time. Um, >> awesome.

[00:42:49]>> A lot of fun, dude. I'm excited to see the continued growth and I'm going to keep you updated with my own LinkedIn growth. I I'll I'll let you know because you were definitely the inspiration behind me pulling the trigger today on the first post. So, I appreciate you.

[00:43:01]>> Thanks, Adam. Awesome.

[00:43:05]>> Did that one well?

[00:43:05]>> Yeah, dude.