US-Iran Backchannel Talks via Pakistan: Why No Real Progress? | The Ali.TM Podcast

Added: 2026-05-10

[00:00:00]Uh, there's been exchanges of thoughts between the US and Iran through Pakistan and the deputy foreign minister is on record. I think yesterday he was in a public meeting and a reporter asked him and he said, "Yeah, we have received some points from Pakistan." Any insights on that? What's up?

[00:00:21]Okay, so yes, like there are these back and forth, uh, sending and receiving of messages.

[00:00:29]But again, I like to highlight something.

[00:00:32]There is a difference between keeping the diplom- backdoor diplomatic channels open and negotiation.

[00:00:39]What we are referring to is not on on the level of negotiation. Again, you have direct negotiation, indirect negotiation through mediation.

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[00:01:11]And then they have you have uh, you know, sending messages through mediators, sending messages through mediators.

[00:01:18]Sending messages through unofficial meetings. So, for example, you have there was a time that I think that secretary general of Supreme National Security Council of Iran met with, uh, William Burns.

[00:01:34]I don't remember his first name, but Burns, I'm talking about the director of CIA. But it wasn't sort of like 100% negotiation-esque thing.

[00:01:45]Uh, I think that it would be fair to put that into the category of, you know, keeping the diplomatic channels open.

[00:01:52]So, there are different, um, levels to sending and receiving the messages.

[00:01:59]Um, obviously what we are seeing in the current situation is a very precarious circumstance.

[00:02:10]And uh, you know, nothing is certain.

[00:02:14]We have seen how United States president and his family have used the rumors about um, you know, negotiation reaching a certain level or nearing uh, you know, final deal uh, in order to fill their pockets, you know, through inside trading, uh, shorting oil stocks, oil future stocks, and so on and so forth, which I'm sure that your audience is well aware of.

[00:02:46]So, you know, first of all, that's what they do. They they use uh, you know, these messages that they sent to Pakistan, and Pakistan has been put in a very tough place because at what at at a at one level, you need a genuine mediation.

[00:03:10]You need that.

[00:03:11]But at the same time, United States is not serious. They're using this in order to kill time, to waste time, in order to get prepared for the next uh, round of war.

[00:03:22]All the indications that the Iranian uh, you know, security {slash} military apparatus is receiving is that um, you know, you know, next round of US attack on Iran is very close. And in fact, that's something that Mr. Khanali Zadeh said.

[00:03:42]Uh, he was the sort of reporter {slash} uh, policy advisor {slash} uh, you know, political analyst uh, who was accompanying uh, the Iranian negotiating team in Islamabad talks.

[00:03:57]Uh this person said that the indications are that, you know, the next round of war is on the horizon.

[00:04:04]So, no one in Iran I'm I'm sorry, I know that I've been on your show a couple of times.

[00:04:10]And every time that you have asked, "What about this thing when it comes to negotiation?"

[00:04:15]And I And I've always told you that "Oh, no, United States is not serious." I I truly am sorry because at this point it's just like a broken device or whatever. I keep repeating broken record. A broken record I'm I keep repeating myself. But unfortunately, no one is taking United States seriously.

[00:04:38]What happened in, for example, Strait of Hormuz uh and what they did uh the the strikes that they carried out on Qashm, for example, or with conjunction to UAE.

[00:04:51]These are not good indications. You don't do this when you want to negotiate. You do not place three uh aircraft carriers in the region plus one uh amphibious assault attack ship. Uh we call it amphibious assault attack because that's its official designation, but it operates F-35B, which is the the version of F-35 that is capable of vertically take off, right?

[00:05:22]So, it's basically an aircraft carrier as well.

[00:05:26]Four aircraft carrier-esque uh things have been deployed into the region. These are not uh signs of United States being uh you know, sort of approaching uh a deal with Iran. And again, there are other indications.

[00:05:43]But we've received the the response.

[00:05:46]Uh so far, before I come on your show, the last news that I had was that we haven't officially sent them anything, not officially, even unofficially. And these reports are coming from the other side. So, the other side, I think it was Washington Post, that said that we haven't received anything. So, even the other side is saying that we haven't still heard from the Iranians.

[00:06:11]Uh but they will Iran will probably send some kind of uh message to the Pakistan mediators.

[00:06:21]And uh yeah, it will probably be revolved the points that have been considered as the Iranian red lines.

[00:06:31]Uh after the Islamabad talks, uh there there were all these discussions in the Iranian society about how we shouldn't talk about the nuclear issues at all.

[00:06:45]Just put yourselves uh in in our shoes.

[00:06:49]Uh before the start of the war, the demands from the US side was that you shouldn't have enrichment.

[00:06:59]And you shouldn't have you shouldn't keep your uh 60% enriched uranium, right?

[00:07:07]We went through a war. We got our leader assassinated. We had our military commander assassinated. We had uh rather significant damage being done to the Iranian infrastructures, bridges, power plants, uh steel production factories.

[00:07:26]All of them were targeted so that we would go back to the table and accept that?

[00:07:32]So, it didn't it doesn't make sense to Iranians. And uh based on the proclamation, the statements that the Iranian leader issued, uh this is considered to be a red line. There are two red lines that Iran has, nuclear issues and the Strait of Hormuz. Strait of Hormuz will keep will remain in the hand of Iran, no matter what happens.

[00:07:59]And new Iranian nuclear capabilities are non-negotiable.

[00:08:04]These two things are, you know, red lines. Other things are debatable. You can because negotiation is about give and take, right?

[00:08:16]And uh yes, I mean, we have done a very good job in terms of defending ourselves on the battlefield.

[00:08:25]But uh defending yourself is very much different from inflicting a kind of punishment that some people are talking about online. They say that, "Oh, you guys were on the cusp of victory and you weren't destroying the United States and Israel." No.

[00:08:43]And for something to be magnificent and impressive, you do not have to exaggerate. It's like saying that, "Well, I I ran against Usain Bolt, the fastest man." I don't know the new fastest man alive or whatever. I'm sorry, I'm not uh up-to-date when it comes to that that sort of information. But let's assume, you know, it was Usain Bolt. Uh it's like saying that I ran against Usain Bolt and I and I was defeated. Yes, I was defeated, but uh like I I only missed him by like a few seconds. People would say, "Oh, genuinely you ran against him and just lost with a with a small margin. We are fighting against the most powerful military in the world with the biggest air force in the world with the second biggest air force in the in the world in the form of the US naval force that the aircraft that they have on in the US Navy and we still in you know targeted 17 of the military bases in the region. Some of them have been destroyed beyond repair.

[00:09:56]So you know they they sort of unusable. They if they want to go back to those bases they have to sort of rebuild them from the ground up.

[00:10:07]And you know this is impressive on its own. You do not need to exaggerate.

[00:10:12]And So yeah.

[00:10:15]Negotiation is about give and take.

[00:10:19]But not give and take in a in ways that would endanger the future of the country itself.

[00:10:26]Very important to understand that nuclear is the basically the future of the world. I know that there were a lot of scientific papers criticizing the the nuclear issues and there were a lot of green movement initiatives talking about the hazardous nature of nuclear energy.

[00:10:48]I've seen them. I've I've read them.

[00:10:52]But you know if you if you there was this um I forgot which magazine did this but I think that I I read an article by the International Monetary Fund IMF.

[00:11:08]That said that we were wrong about industrialization and industrial economy.

[00:11:14]And we have to change you know none of our recommendation is any longer applicable. You think that they didn't know that? You think that they didn't know that this is not true about the industrial economy? No, they knew it. But the fact was they were trying to give the wrong advices to other countries so that they remain poor and underdeveloped. But then, you know, now they say that it has been the case and it the the the what's it called? The the policies that they advocated for were wrong because it has come to a point that is no longer uh possible for them to hide this from anyone else. So, they they're at that juncture. So, it's a similar thing when it comes to you know, the the nuclear energy. I'm sorry, I'm derailing the conversation a lot. I've gone on a tangent and I've gone on a tangent on the tangent. But the point is that uh nuclear issues, again, if you want if you have to have sort of like space exploration, you need basically uh long-term fuel {slash} energy resources. If you are to put a satellite into the uh space, you can't say, "Well, I'm going to use a lithium battery on my satellite. And then whenever the battery run runs out, I'm going to send an operator to go and switch the battery."

[00:12:46]I'm sorry, that's that's ridiculous.

[00:12:48]It's laughable. You know, they they use uh nuclear power power batteries. They use nuclear clocks on on different uh places. And if you are in a in a situation that Iran was, you remember how they weren't willing to give Iran radio pharmaceutical medicines that were necessary in order to uh cure the Iranian patients. So, how can these cruel people who were not willing to do that give you, you know, uh a a nuclear power clock or a nuclear battery? They they will never do those things. And that's why these things are considered to be the red lines of Iran because it's about the posterity, about the future generations.

[00:13:39]Uh >> [clears throat] >> it's very um uh surprising to know that people on the both side of the border is still think the same. The people. So, the Pakistanis are also very mindful of the Americans cutting corners.

[00:13:57]They say that they will come uh point where the uh US guys would you use Pakistan in a way. So, people nowadays are quickly turning over to independent journalism and independent media for unbiased and uncensored news. But, independent journalism and media requires a lot of resources. To support us, you can find our banking details in the video description below. And you can help us keep through with this mission.

[00:14:24]Thank you.

[00:14:25]and hurt Iran. So, Pakistan is also very mindful in that way as well and very skeptical when it comes to uh the US taking time or saying, "Okay, we're going to talk." So, there are other news sprouting from here in Pakistan that the third round of talks is about to uh hit the stage once again here in Islamabad.

[00:14:49]But, the people Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:51]>> Quick interjection. You remember the last interview that Foreign Minister Badr Al-Busaidi gave to Face the Nation in United States and the way that he spoke.

[00:15:03]Uh his words were really optimistic. He said that there's a window of opportunity here, a real window of opportunity, and we are closer to reaching a final deal more than ever.

[00:15:16]More than we were ever close to reaching a deal.

[00:15:20]And then after the after the negotiations were went sideways in the United States attacked Iran.

[00:15:28]Prime Minister not Prime Minister Foreign Minister Badral Busaiti is a very professional Foreign Minister. Very professional Foreign Minister.

[00:15:37]Uh but you could see in his words a sense of betrayal and frustration.

[00:15:44]And you know that was basically diplomatic equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum.

[00:15:52]So for example a person like me would say, "Oh, to hell with this." And so his words were basically the diplomatic equivalent of to hell with this. I'm I'm done with the Americans. And I think that that's an experience that the uh the the Pakistani diplomats have. And obviously they have you know other things to do. This This is the time that they can spend to go and get a deal with China, get a deal with Russia, to talk with different countries. This is a energy that is wasted on them and they're they're not Let me be clear. This is not a few This is a futile effort but important effort to put in to place because obviously we have seen the ramifications of the war uh between Iran uh United States and Israel. So very important but again doomed for failure from the get-go. Mhm.