Mamata Banerjee News | Can Mamata Banerjee Refuse To Vacate CM Office?

追加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:10]Good evening and welcome. Thanks very much for [music] joining us here. What a day it was yesterday. Results day across five [music] assemblies. But Tamil Nadu and in particular West Bengal hoged all the headlines and [music] they continue to do so. Why in West Bengal?

[00:00:28]I won't go.

[00:00:29]>> [music] >> I will not resign as chief minister.

[00:00:31]That's right. That's what Maavanji has said. It's the most dramatic twist that no one could have [music] seen coming to the West Bengal election result. But a clear mandate was delivered to the BJP [music] with Mabanagi crashing to below the 100 mark. The writing on the wall was clear.

[00:00:46]Every single region of the state saw the [music] voter reject PMC. Consider this.

[00:00:51]22 out of 35 ministers in Maab Banerjee's cabinet lost. The average margin of loss for these ministers in their seats was over 20,000 votes. 13 of these ministers [music] who lost had remained undefeated in these same seats since 2011. For 15 years, three terms, they had remained untouched, undefeated, unbending. And yet this time the voter decided that they needed to go. Now let's look at the flip side. How the BJP fared. It made gains in every region across the state whether it was the north, south, east, west, tribal, dalith, mountain areas, even Muslims. In Huggli, the BJP went from four seats to 16, four times increase. In Hava, where it had always drawn a blank, it went from zero to 7 out of 16 seats. In Purhar Daman it got 14 out of 16 seats.

[00:01:54]Earlier again in this area the BJP had consistently got zero seats. Zero seats in the assembly, zero leads in the Lok Sabha. And then there are the areas which were considered TMC citadels. You had heard again and again of Kolkata the badloque who thought of the BJP as a basket of deplorables as people who are not fit to enter the state of West Bengal. In that Kolkata the BJP won six out of 11 seats including those the heart of Badraokque South Kolkata. Even in South 24 Paranas the very center of Abhishek Banerjee's fortress the BJP went from 0 to 10 out of 31 seats. The expanse is staggering and it's only because this is the voice of the people.

[00:02:44]This this South 24 paranas that we are talking about just to give you an idea had given the Trinumul Congress almost an entire sweep 30 out of 31 seats. The only one which they lost out in 2021 was Bhangar which was won by Noshad Siddhindi of the ISF. And yet this time the BJP managed to make inroads one onethird 33% of the seats in Abishek Banerjee's area were won by the Saffron party. So the question is is this rigging? Is this not a clear resounding emphatic statement by the people of their will? And in trying to call it a result of vote chury, isn't it the people's mandate that is being insulted?

[00:03:33]Because that's exactly what is happening today. Not only did the former West Bengal Chief Minister Mab Banerjee slam the results and call them manipulated, she also declared that she will not step down as CM because the election had been stolen from her. that the election commission is the biggest villain, that these seats were meant to be hers. The interesting thing is that this refrain has now also been picked up by the entire opposition including the Congress that otherwise had fought the TMC in Bengal and had declared Maab Banerjee corrupt communal in handinand glove with the BJP and the same Congress whose workers were beaten their offices taken over by the Trinumul Congress. In fact, Adiranjan Chri was on record to say that his voters in Moshidabad were not being allowed to come out that those people who voted for the Congress and for Adiranjan Chri their water supply was cut off by the Trunamul Congress after polling day. Yes, that same Congress and its MP Rahul Gandhi today is saying that Mantaab Banerjee's mandate has been stolen that she is the rightful chief minister of West Bengal and this is about saving democracy and in that he stands with the moon No, not that. Now also I want to say that we have not we didn't lose the election. It is their forceful attempt to defeat us. I went inside for few minutes. They kicked me in my belly.

[00:05:26]They kicked me in my backside.

[00:05:30]And you cannot imagine what happened because that time CCTV was off. They just charged me thrown me out from the counting station. I am now free.

[00:05:43]I gave full life for service. Now I am free bar.

[00:05:48]So I have to do some work that I'll manage to do it.

[00:05:59]election election commission 93% agencies, election commission ground, Russia Tamil.

[00:07:06]So the big question is this. Can the Trinimore Congress and Didi deny the people's mandate? And can they really claim vote chry and election manipulation when there is data available to prove that the TMC this time around was rejected and routed by the voter herself. Joining us now on the legal implications of this claim by Ma Banerjee is CRM Sundaram, senior lawyer in the Supreme Court. Mr. Sundram, thanks very much for speaking to us.

[00:07:35]People are wondering is it possible? Can a chief minister say I'm not going to resign?

[00:07:41]Well, uh, for one thing, it's nothing but political posturing.

[00:07:47]If you lose and your party has lost, you're saying you will not resign is a bit ridiculous for the simple reason that it's a formality. It's a formality that you go to the governor and say, "Look here, I have lost and I am resigning." And it's an equal good form for the governor to say I understand thank you for your service but please do continue till the next government takes over and then you continue till the next government takes over. Now this is nothing but political posturing because constitutionally there's no question.

[00:08:27]You see for one thing the life of a legislative assembly is 5 years from its first meeting and if I'm not mistaken the legislative assembly in any event in West Bengal has to come to an end in 3 days time.

[00:08:45]Secondly, when the new government is ready to take office and the new legislators have already been notified and the notification issued, the returning officer gives the results and then the appropriate government issues the notification. Once that's done, >> the question of the old legislators continuing does not arise. In that case, it's almost like saying every legislator turns around and says I'm not resigning.

[00:09:10]What I feel is possible is that maybe maybe some legal action is being planned as to what legal action well frankly if it's an election petition is only regarding your own election. If she wants to challenge the ele elections in a macro level that means you have to go to the Supreme Court you challenge on a macro level which actually is unheard of. I haven't seen it done before and I don't see it being done now or entertained now. But if her intention is to go to court and challenge the elections themselves, maybe then she feels that if she formally resigns, then the question arises once you've already resigned, what's the question of your challenging the elections on a macro level? So that can be the only logic if at all you can call that logic which I don't >> which uh is possible otherwise what's being done is nothing but political posturing.

[00:10:07]>> Do do you recall any precedent for something like this?

[00:10:13]>> Sorry I can't hear you.

[00:10:14]>> Is there any kind of precedent for something like this? Anything like this has ever happened uh in the past?

[00:10:19]>> I don't think so. It's never happened. I mean it's unheard of. I can understand if she intends to go to the Supreme Court tomorrow and says if I resign now tomorrow it might be said you've already resigned what are you coming to court for but equally I've never seen an entire election being challenged in the court so I really can't see the purpose behind this but uh like I said it is political posturing goes with the story of an election being rigged etc. M >> the only sad very sad part as far as I'm concerned is that you know in the past nobody could ever ever doubt an election commission. The election commissioners [clears throat] we had were giants. People like Sashan, people like Gil people, they were giants. Uh unfortunately today uh people are throwing stones at the election commission left, right and center and there are enough people buying this and that makes it very unfortunate >> because I think that really reflects on the election commission themselves in notth getting the view of the people. I mean nobody threw a stone at a session for example. It was unheard of. You never thought of that. But unfortunately today uh people feel that they can challenge the impartiality but that in this case is ridiculous because I find that the results are such that to even you know cast any kind of slur >> is absolutely nonsensical. Her continuing is equally nonsensical. Her saying that I will not resign is nonsensical. But like I said it's either political posturing or planning as a prelude to approaching the court.

[00:12:00]Otherwise she can >> in political posturing [clears throat] when the entire >> everything else the governor can always govern brought into question and the funny thing is >> absolutely >> that you've got opposition parties like uh the congress itself actually winning a mandate in Kerala you've got a complete surprise like Vijay managing to make a splash through the same electoral process in our country in Tamil Nadu nobody saw that coming and the BJP getting far far below what it had expected in Tamiladu. They gave it their all still didn't manage to win. The curious thing though is Mr. Sundaram that when the chief minister says I'm not going to step down. I was just wondering right now she's not even an MLA. She wants to continue as chief minister when she isn't even a legislator.

[00:12:47]>> Well, well technically speaking uh even if you do become a minister without being a legislator you can continue for 6 months and be voted in the meantime.

[00:12:58]But here her at this stage with her not being a legislator at all is more than indicative of the reaction of the state of West Bengal to her. And I think you know well let's see I'm sure things will change by tomorrow evening.

[00:13:14]>> By tomorrow evening I'm sure that it'll go the right way. Otherwise, it's not going to be a big constitutional issue because if she doesn't resign in any event there, it comes to an end in another couple of days. A B the governor can always uh dismiss you, can always say that you are not continuing. C a new chief minister can be sworn in and if so factor you you see as being a chief minister. So I don't see any constitutional impass here. Like I said on her side, I see it as nothing more than political posturing.

[00:13:47]>> All right. But >> there is really no legal or constitutional basis for what is being done.

[00:13:52]>> But at what cost? One wonders. Thanks very much Mr. Sundaram for having spoken to us here because this is something that people are really worried about now. Could it lead to a state of almost anarchy where you have a former chief minister saying I'm not going to concede in any fashion? We're also joined in fact now by Mr. Mahes J Milani. Uh Mr. J Milani, thanks very much for joining us here on the buck stops show because this is something on which the buck needs to stop. A very strange situation we were just discussing with Mr. Sundra, the West Bengal chief minister saying I'm going nowhere. What happens now? She's saying my election was stolen.

[00:14:33]>> Well, Ma Banerjee is known to say that the election has been stolen from her.

[00:14:38]The election commission certifies the result of an election. Right? Now what happens is she has a problem. She has to go to court file an election petition so on and so forth. Right? But now what happens is that every chief minister holds office at the pleasure of the governor. If she insists on sticking like a lemming to her chair then the chief minister must unceremoniously dismiss her. I would like to say given this conduct kick her out right because this is unpardonable this is unprecedented and this is a challenge to our whole democratic system and it puts the whole country and our system in very poor light and actually we have the most functioning democracies in the world I I consider India's democracy to be more functioning than both the UK and USA or any other European country right and this is a real slate against us I mean it is an insult and she deserves to be taught her a lesson, right? And I hope I'm glad she did this. I'm glad that this is her attitude so that the governor can dismiss her instead of her gracefully resigning. And also remember that as for the constitution, right, every legislative assembly has a tenure of 5 years.

[00:15:54]>> It seizes after that the legislative assembly is no longer a legislative assembly because it has no members. the members lose their membership by flux of time. 5 years is the cut off date. So when five years expired from the last election, they're not MLAs anymore and she is not a chief minister anymore.

[00:16:17]>> So her in a sense she's completely mistaken and she has no basic principles of constitutional theory, right? She has ceased to be a chief minister from the day the election was announced >> because of the expiry of time. In fact, she's only an acting chief minister, >> right?

[00:16:35]>> So, she has to step down or she'll be dismissed.

[00:16:38]>> So, just to be clear, 7th, the term of this assembly expires. Technically, nothing can stand in the way of the swearing in taking place on the 9th.

[00:16:47]That's when tentatively we know it's going to happen. So, there can be no legal challenge. It's perfectly legal for the swearing in of the new cabinet to take place on the 9th of this month.

[00:16:56]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. and the the the governor must formally formally dismiss her because she holds office at his pleasure actually right 5 years to the date she's no longer chief minister but she in if she wants to purportedly act as one if she fains to act as a chief minister then dismiss her and say listen you seem to be suffering from some acute constitutional confusion right I'm telling you I'm dismissing you one way or the other because you are now not worthy of sitting on that chair apart from the fact that you don't have to be seen.

[00:17:31]>> So, hypothetically speaking, if tomorrow Miss Banerjee was to go and sit in the chief minister's office, what could be done about that? What could be the >> governor could send the police force and take her out and evict her?

[00:17:45]She's a trespasser at the chief minister's office from now on. The moment the election is certified, election results are certified, she's a trespasser.

[00:17:55]What do you make of the fact that uh Mavanager is saying that 100 seats have been stolen by virtue of which I am past the halfway mark that these 100 seats belong to the Trinul Congress and nobody can say that the TMC has >> I think that she has a very poor understanding of how our constitution and I'm sure she's got a very bad legal advisor if they're telling her hey please reign in yourself because this is not the constitutional practice and she's no person to decide the genuiness of the outcome of an election mandate.

[00:18:25]Right? If she has a problem, please go to the Supreme Court or the High Court of West Bengal and challenge all those 100 seats which were stolen. File individual election petitions for all of them. Right? If you have so much evidence, >> you can waste the time of the court. The court will probably unceremoniously throw you out from there as well. You've already been given short shift in the Supreme Court twice before. If you want to keep making yourself a laughing stock, go ahead and do it. H >> you have a constitutional right to move the course.

[00:18:56]>> But sir, the argument being given is that the fixing of this election that this election was fixed because 27 lakh people who were in the list for logical discrepancy weren't allowed to vote on that ground. Can the outcome of this election be challenged simply by saying that 27 lakh people did not cast their vote. Hence the result itself is under a cloud >> because you have to be a citizen of India to be entitled to vote at a parliamentary or a state assembly election or indeed any any election punchayat etc municipal corporation any election right if you are not a citizen of India you are disentled to exercise franchise in an election right so there is no there is no way that she can ever conjure this argument that so many people and by the That entire exercise, she herself challenged it in the Supreme Court, right? It's past muster of the scrutiny of the Supreme Court.

[00:19:55]>> Who is she? She's in contempt now. She's in she's a she's a according to me, she's a disgrace to the very concept of a democracy.

[00:20:04]>> But uh and the rule of law, >> but technically the logic is that these people haven't been proven to be not citizens of India. They're just in a list and a tribunal still has to take a call on their veracity on their legality or otherwise. Was it wrong in going ahead with the election still when these 27 lakh people their legality was >> you can certainly have an election and you can set the clock back. You you exercise your right now. The Supreme Court said yes you we are not going to examine each and every we we are satisfied prime faci as to the correctness right but if you have details as to why they should not have been excluded right you you take it up in due course but we're not stopping the election for this process after 5 years after 5 years this has to be done there has to be an election it's mandatory >> sure but when you say >> so if if you have evidence right which you haven't produced at the initial stage about them being removed >> then or or they've not been able to satisfy the authorities responsible, the tribunals responsible for this determining who was supposed to be out on the basis of SI right then you do it now and YOU SET THE CLOCK BACK IN THOSE ELECTIONS you can't on say that all of them are there without furnishing evidence >> so uh you know when you say set the clock back hypothetically because now the results already out hypothetically say that in a month from now these tribunals were to find out that out of the 27 lakh who are yet to be adjudicated on logical discrepancies 25 lakh are found to be genuine voters can the TMC then go to court and say here these are 25 lakh people who are proven to be Indian and legitimate voters and they weren't allowed to vote in May so the outcome is wrong >> to go to each you'll have to go constituency wise right >> can happen if people were wrongly excluded from voting by any chance you will have to show that it has that's that's that's the one of the fundamental features. When you are saying there's a there there are inclusion wrongful inclusion or exclusion of voters then you have to show that the ones you say ought to have been given a vote but were wrongly deprived of that franchise because of the tribunal >> then you have to show that it would make a material difference to the outcome of that election in the given constituency.

[00:22:24]>> All right Mr. J Malani and Mr. Sundra speaking to us there. The legality here now is in front of you. As for the political posturing, whether it is okay to do it once the people have spoken, I'll leave that to your wisdom.

[00:22:38]Meanwhile, Radika, national spokesperson of the BJP joins us along with political analyst Dashar Gupta. We also have with us Nilanjandas, Imran Ahmed Ali, who is a lawyer and consulting editor of NDTV, Jantaa Goshal. But Radika, I'm going to start with you. one side is the legality but the fact of the matter is today after that entire vote jury claim by Congress TMC is saying you have stolen the state from her she is going to be the CM what are you going to do about it you can't do CM chi >> good evening to everyone and if Congress is so worried about the vote ch thing they should immediately Rahul Gandhi should immediately get all his MLAs from Kerala to resign who else would vote for papu's party a man who does not believe in the Constitution does not believe in anything. Why is even contesting elections? He should immediately say we do not accept the mandate of the people of Kerala. We resigning from there also.

[00:23:30]You win one election.

[00:23:32]Tamil BJP doesn't win.

[00:23:35]But the moment BJP wins from any other state Rahul Gandhi needs to introspect and the Congress needs to introspect where they're going wrong instead of always saying your batting skills are not okay.

[00:23:50]Concentrate on that. said that what we are witnessing is a first in Indian history. We have a squatter chief minister. Let's talk constitutional reality under the article 1663.

[00:24:03]It categorically says that the council of minister exists to aid and advise the governor.

[00:24:08]>> But that advice must come from a government that holds a majority. Now with 207 seats for the Bhhaty Jantaa party and a humiliating 80 for MTA Banerjee, she has no legal authority to sign even a single fine. Even if she goes to Nabana tomorrow and sits in that chair, she isn't a chief minister. She is a trespasser in a public office.

[00:24:28]Every minute, every single minute that she spends in that office will be a violation of the doctrine of the constitutional property. It is like a tenant refusing to leave after the lease has expired and the building has been sold. Her rejection in Bhavanipur by 15,000 votes is the final eviction notice from the people of West Bengal.

[00:24:46]And look at the irony. She claims that the mandate is stolen yet she wants to sit in office that is powered by the same very stolen democratic process.

[00:24:55]>> Mom, I mean what is the drama that she's doing?

[00:24:58]>> Nanjandas, how can you cling on to something that has been denied to you by the people of India? Nobody else but the people. And why I say people is because the reasons and the mandate is clear.

[00:25:11]Your ministers lost. You lost in tribal bells. You lost in Dalith belts. You lost in Muslim belts.

[00:25:17]>> You lost in urban [laughter] belts. You lost in rural bells.

[00:25:21]Women didn't vote for you. Men didn't vote for you.

[00:25:24]>> TMC did not lose this election. Ma Banerjee and almost 100 uh seat in 100 seats there has been viol. The mandate has been stolen. This is >> which 100 seats? Name those seats.

[00:25:37]>> This is >> Name those seats.

[00:25:39]>> There are many. Do a recounting now.

[00:25:42]>> You name the seats. You are so clear. It is 100 seats only.

[00:25:45]>> I'm talking about >> it's not 94 seats. It's not 108 seats.

[00:25:49]It's 100 seats. I'm sure you must have sat and tabulated them right and said no it's not 101 seats. It's exactly 100 seats because I have listed them down.

[00:25:58]Tell me two seats out of those.

[00:26:00]>> You have to do Padma ja. We believe in the uh wisdom of the people. You have to do a counting of the ballot. You have to count the EVM votes. That has not been done. TMC candidates, TMC counting agents, they have been beaten up. They have been thrown out of the uh counting centers and now you are doing the post pole violence. So this is the current situation of Bengal. Arain is here.

[00:26:24]Achadin is here. A sitting chief minister has >> at what point? Very quickly I'll get Raja to respond you know to whether in the counting counting center people were beaten up can you can you just tell me at which stage at which stage was this manipulated Bengal assembly >> at the polling stage at the counting stage at the campaigning stage of West Bengal >> at which stage was this election STOLEN >> WHAT DO THEY KNOW OF LAW DO THEY KNOW THAT WEST BENGAL ASSEMBLY IS STILL IN STILL IN EFFECT DO THEY EVEN KNOW THAT >> Vanjandas there's no point in shouting anymore the people have SPOKEN NOT LETTING ME AT WHAT STAGE was this election stolen during the polling?

[00:27:01]>> EVERY STAGE FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS. AND THAT'S WHY MA BANI AND THE entire machinery entire party machinery WAS ON THEIR TOES. WE WERE TOTALLY VIGILANT.

[00:27:12]TOTALLY VIGILANT. AND STILL THEY HAVE MANAGED TO STEAL THIS ELECTION. AND LET ME TELL YOU, >> MY FRIEND, IF THEY HAVE STOLEN the election, THEN YOU WEREN'T VIGILANT.

[00:27:20]>> YOU ARE you are literally contradicting yourself. If you were on their toes, I mean you were on your toes, then how could you slip past YOUR VOICE ALSO? YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY MY VOICE ALSO.

[00:27:31]THIS IS THE CONDITION OF THE DEMOCRACY IN INDIA. YOU'RE NOT LETTING LETTING ME SPEAK.

[00:27:35]>> Vanjand the the beauty of democracy in our country is that you get to have a voice despite losing an election. The people have rejected you and yet you are here TO SPEAK YOUR PEACE.

[00:27:48]>> DON'T DO THIS THING. DON'T DO THIS THING. THE SUPREME COURT OBSERVED THAT WE CANNOT INTERFERE with the poll results until the winning margin is less than the number of exclusions. WHAT HAS BEEN THE NUMBER OF EXCLUSION? WHAT IS THE MARGIN BETWEEN THE TMC AND THE BJP?

[00:28:06]WHAT IS THE MARGIN?

[00:28:07]>> WHAT IS THE MARGINAL?

[00:28:09]>> The logic is the logic is that what the chief minister [laughter] should be resigning.

[00:28:14]>> NK Stalin could have also said the chief minister of >> NK Stalin could have said I'm going nowhere. I am the chief minister. Vij can cool his heels. Today Pin Vijan can say I am not going anywhere. Rahul Gandhi can cool his heels. And yet these are people who are sensibly respecting the mandate and stepping aside.

[00:28:31]>> The tenure is there until that Tamil Nadu he doesn't need to resign.

[00:28:38]>> Okay. Very quickly Radika respond to the specific allegation that when counting was being done and Ma Banerjee the chief minister the ex-chief minister has said she was kicked on her chest and her back and she was thrown out and her accounting agents were thrown out. This is a very SPECIFIC >> DEMOCRACY, THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD.

[00:28:59]>> THREE things uh >> answer.

[00:29:01]>> Okay. Three things the the TMC supporter said. He said that currently the assembly still exists. Well, the term expires tomorrow on May 6, 2026. So, you have a couple of more hours. I think it's 8:30 right now. Another four hours.

[00:29:18]I didn't speak over you. Zip it. This is not mad. This is not mad playground words that you can shout over a woman.

[00:29:25]Control your tongue. PMA please ask me.

[00:29:27]>> Yes. One at a time please. Yes.

[00:29:28]>> So first of all by fact check by uh 12 a.m. tonight the assembly term will expire May 6 there has to be a new government. So she can continue for a couple of days. Uh but again that is in the hands of the governor till the time the new government comes into power. Now when second thing he said 100 seats please show me how many of their MLA contestants and those 100 seats have given a format that you want a recounting and they were not given a recounting or they are not happy with the recounting and they have gone to court they must their agents or their candidate themselves must have filed for recounting that is the normal procedure when you fight an election how many of those 100 candidates from Manka Banerjee's party have asked for a recounting and have been denied a recounting or how many all the results will be summed and if they have been denied a recounting how many of them have immediately gone to court they should have gone to court what is preventing they have the best legal legals even bishek Manu Singh Viji is their lawyer they should have gone to court they have a good team of lawyers what is stopping them third thing now when she says that she's been kicked I think she's been kicked by a phantom attacker how is it possible Padma where everybody is there there were more people also and in a time When we live with our phones, we live with cameras.

[00:30:48]Can anybody be hit, kicked, crashed and there will be no evidence of that? And like you rightly said before this.

[00:30:56]>> Why did she not go straight to the police station? And before that, she's the chief, former chief minister.

[00:31:01]Currently, till now she's holding office. She has also had the home ministry with her. Why did she not immediately go to a government hospital and get her self tested?

[00:31:10]>> I actually have a great idea. Imran Ali since you support the Congress and now Rahul Gandhi supports the TMC in Bhavanipur. You had a Congress candidate as well. His counting agent would have been there. You should immediately take that counting agent of the Congress with Ma Banerjee to the nearest police station as eyewitness and file a complaint. You should file an FIR >> because the Congress accounting agent and the Congress candidate would have been there. Let's keep Nil Nanjand Das and Mr. Immran Ahmed both on screen.

[00:31:43]Yes. Go on. Immran Ahmed.

[00:31:46]>> Okay. So if let today the question that I have to ask you is one and I have to answer one thing as well. Whether she can retain office after the fact that she has a mandate or not. Absolutely not. This is not your central Delhi uh bungalow that after losing your elections you can continue staying in for a year for a few years. However, today I want to ask everyone one question is that if elections are the voice of the people, we must ask a question as to who tried to silence it.

[00:32:15]When we talk about this election process, we talk about Fala. If there were no problems with the election process, why is Fala going into a re-election or a revote or a recounting on the 24th and the 24th?

[00:32:29]>> Today, Mr. Mr. Sundaram before me says that an election petition of this nature today election petition he says and he he started the show in fact he said an election petition of this nature is unheard of let me remind you of Raj Narayan versus Indra Gandhi where the Alabad high court had actually set aside an election that is a separate thing that emergency was imposed >> is also unheard of >> talk about Mr. The Subramanyam Swami >> Nilanch the Congress is supporting you.

[00:32:59]Stop attacking those who are trying to help you for a change.

[00:33:02]>> The VV you might be confused because Rahul Gandhi has changed his stand twice over the last 14 DAYS. BUT TODAY CONGRESS IS ON THAT MIND THAT WE ARE NOT FIGHTING A IN A DEMOCRATIC SETUP. WE ARE FIGHTING A FASCIST GOVERNMENT.

[00:33:17]Nilanjandas just FYI two weeks ago ago Rahul Gandhi said that Ma Banerjee is a tyrant that she is corrupt that she has open the door for the BJP in West Bengal and if she had addressed the issues in Sesh Khali and RJ Kore in a satisfactory way the BJP today would not be emboldened. That is what he has said just two weeks ago.

[00:33:39]>> Rahul Gandhi is the gospel. Whatever he says is >> no I mean today is the gospel because today the chief minister said that everyone is supporting us from IND of course because supporting us the TMC is getting the support of you know Shir SA getting the support of DN JUST COME TO BENGAL PADMA LEAVE YOUR LEAVE YOUR HOT SEAT COME TO BENGAL NOBODY IS REJOICING EVERYONE IS KILLING PEOPLE THIS BJP GOONS ARE KILLING PEOPLE >> okay sir I will come to Bengal I assure you I was in Bengal and I will come back swearing in as well I'LL SEND YOU EVEN IF IT'S A SWEARING IN of Mabanji and she continues to say the chief MINISTER I'LL SHOW YOU ON YOUR TELEVISION.

[00:34:13]>> OKAY. Very quickly please let Mr. Imran finish his point then I really must go to Tushar and Jento as well. Yes. Go on.

[00:34:21]>> Now going going back to the issue of the SI which is the hot contested debate when you remove 60 lakh in terms of voters in terms of deletion and 61 lakhs in terms of adjudication where after the Supreme Court intervene you make that list public before that you do not even make it public. when you try and you do the entire process by an untested software where the BJP itself cries foul and says that uh the VPAT machine slips were found in garbage etc. Now my question is today that the electoral process in challenge in court is the answer yes however if you ask me personally whether the process was compromised obviously yes you do not remove 1.21 uh 121 >> the Supreme Court of India doesn't agree now I'm sure I'm sure Mr. Imran Ahmed Ali you are wiser than the Supreme Court of India but the Supreme Court of India does not believe that this election was compromised in any way. Anyhow this SI issue has gone on and on and it has gone all the way to Supreme Court. I don't think any of us here are wiser than the Chief Justice of India. But I want to show you the data and why I said the people of India has spoken. Very quickly I want to show you two data sets. First I will show you an example of the ministers who lost. Over 60% of the ministers who were in Maab Banerjee's cabinet all of them lost. I want to take you through just some of the names over here. You had of course Mabanji herself losing Shashi Pana someone very close to Mabanji she lost. Chandra Batachara lost. Braty Basu lost. One name I want to point out to you is that of Monteshwar the seat Monteshwar. You had Tirikula Chri who was there for the last two terms. That's how powerful he was.

[00:36:02]And despite that this time he was unseated by the BJP. Why? Because you had the Muslims not voting for the TMC as a block and there is a sizable SC population there which went the BJP's way. And it's as simple as that. The people have decided the Muslim vote is splitting multiple ways because even they are upset and the Dalits decided to go with the BJP. That's the only way to explain this election. And I want to come to you Jayen Touda because you know when people keep saying when Mabanji is saying that all my party but people are going to rally behind me. I've heard murmurss from senior journalists in West Bengal that even within her party there is an old guard and new guard and the new guard is not really comfortable either with the way the elections were fought or with this entire stand of I am not going to resign as chief minister because they were not on board even with the ticket distribution and two seats I think one is in Havra and the other is in the other seat of Bali the old guard new guard didn't even get along well on the seat distribution in those two.

[00:37:11]>> Yeah, I think uh it is absolutely correct and one side when MTA banner is proactive to make the complaint against uh this election commission and all these things. But beside this the the the party caders because I am uh connected with lot of people there in different districts. I know them very well for pretty long time. They trust me. I cannot disclose the names. But you know this TMC second rank third rank leaders and especially uh the habotss who didn't get the nomination they tried. Now they're very very very vocal in this crisis and that's why perhaps Mabanji need to focus the issue highlight the issue anti- uh center anti-h election commission she also knows that this resignation or all these what are the legal implications but she wants to give a message the symbolic the note of descent what you can call that it will will be recorded but you know this hara you gave photographer this Bali seat actually the kailash I think kilash misra uh he was very uh he is very close to a vishek and he's a young guy >> and very powerful uh in the district >> I know he's actually a metal braman I had met him he was fielded there Hindi speaking from Bihar from the Mitella region >> yeah yeah yeah yeah he's mila and he's I don't want to be uh cast approach but sociologically I can say that he is a Brahmin Hindi speaking leader of youth leader a new generation leader of TMC and uh and and and there was a major protest against the nomination because in Bali the sitting MLA was a doctor Bengali and Rana Chhataraji Dr. Rana Chhati and he didn't get the I mean nomination and Rana is close to Mtabi the senior man and Kailash he's new I mean the young star and the he got the nomination for the first time and Mab Banerji to keep Rana in this uh political nomination uh again uh another seat of Haraj Shipur but again he defeated but Kash defeated and the minister you are talking about the minister the rare minister Orurup Roy from central Hara is a old man and the new generation leadership they wanted to uh delete the name of Arup Roy from the list but MDA thought that the old girl is important he she gave the ticket and Orupra owned the election and KA did it.

[00:40:16]Now not only Hara you you you mentioned Hara that's why I said uh it will take time so I will not give the details I don't want to be the micro details but I can mention the district like the Badawan midnapur also hooi all the senior uh leaders uh they have owned and several newcomers in the huggli two leaders own only and both the two uh leaders they are old uh woman leaders close to the I mean Mabel frankly speaking. So there is a now internal tussle has started again the old versus new. This is good party inside democracy is there in the communist party regimented party sometime it was a congress culture is also inherited that congress in fighting but you know these are the issues >> now the second rank third rank leadership because in crisis the they they become more vocal >> interesting so you've got an internal fighting and you are blaming others for vote jury that's really not going to be bought by too many people. I want to show you one more piece of data on how people voted and then I will come to you Tashar Gupta for a comment. How did Muslims vote in this election? That is a fascinating story. The three main districts of Malda Mushidabad Uttar Dinage in Uttar Dinpur out of nine seats. Last time the TMC had seven. This time they have only five. Why? Because the BJP flipped two of these seats of Karandi and Himabad. How did this happen? because the Muslim vote again was split between Congress, TMC, Kayu Kabir and even the CPM. Take a look at what happened in Malda. In Malda in 20121, you had got out of a total of 12 seats TMC getting the lion's share of eight. This time they were reduced to six because Manik Chuck and Bashnavagar were taken by the BJP and that too by a very handsome margin might I add of 46,000 in Bashnabagar. Third, I want to show you what happened in Mushshidabad.

[00:42:32]Out of 22 seats there, you had the BJP managing to flip six of them. They got eight as compared to two last time around. But the real story is the Congress getting two, Kabir getting two and even the CPIM winning one seat. While Jangipur, Nabogram and Karam went to the BJP. You had Kabir winning both the seats that he contested on. CPM getting a Muslim dominated seat and the Congress also getting two of those seats. The big takeaways over here are that you had and if we can please quickly go to the next graphic, we'll be able to see what the big message of this is that the TMC lost 15 seats in the Muslim belt itself and the BJP gained 10 seats. So this entire thing of sir being decisive to shar Gupta it was in this Muslim belt that the sir saw maximum deletions and yet TMC won most of those seats but what they lost out to was the Muslim vote splitting. So this whole bogey of sir manipulated the election does it hold to Tushar Gupta?

[00:43:41]>> Oh absolutely it doesn't hold not even a bit of it. You know my favorite example in this assembly election is that of Beldanga. It's a constituency. The BJP won with just 31% vote share because the Congress chipped in with a 17% vote share reducing TMC to just 26%. So the Congress which is accusing the BJP of manufacturing vote chi actually manufactured many wins like this for the BJP in West Bengal. The Muslim vote was split and not just in one or 10 or 15 at least 27 constituencies. Sometimes it went to the CPI, sometimes it went to the Congress. And yet Maab Banerjee pocketed more than 70 of these constituencies. So I don't know where she comes up with this argument that oh the S has taken away her vote. It hasn't. It was plain anti-inccumbancy against the TMC government and people rallied [clears throat] behind the BJP and some of them because they did not want to vote for the BJP even rallied behind CPI, Congress and even other smaller parties. Now I'll give you another example Padma this look at Nabagar together the B the TMC and the Congress had a vote share of 55%.

[00:44:47]BJP won the seat with 35% vote share because again the Congress and TMC were not on the same page. So one has to wonder Ma Banerjee's arrogance about not going with an alliance with the Congress in both Lok Sabha and assembly that cost her a number of seats because earlier today in the press conference she was being very humble in talking about the Indi block and its other leaders while for years now she's been demeaning and discarding the same leaders of the alliance also padma what does mab banerj have if not theatrics she's not relevant in any other state than west Bengal she's down to 80 she doesn't have a mandate which is 130 140 odd seats that she can get the assembly to, you know, stop at a stencil or challenge the verdict. She doesn't have an ideology.

[00:45:29]She doesn't have an economic model to offer. She doesn't have a social welfare to model to offer. A few years ago, some of her Rajya Sabha MPs were making her case to go to Delhi and probably lead the India alliance. But we've seen she cannot even get 40 Lok Sabha seats for the India alliance as its leader. So what does Mabang G really have after being voted out of power? Absolutely nothing. And this is why these theatrics are important. The constitutional provisions appear, the legal aspects appear, Maab Banerji has absolutely no case, not even a single assembly. And someone said that because there is repolling happening in Falta, so something is wrong with the election in the entire state. I'm sorry. If you have a blister on your finger, you do not end up plastering your head. So Mab Bangal, she can claim anything. She can claim 100 seats were lost. She can pretend to be an avenger and say 14, 605 seats were lost. Nothing matters because all this is political theatric. the constitutional experts, the Supreme Court or any high court of this country will see through.

[00:46:24]>> Look, you know, Mandabari says, I continue to be the chief minister. She will have to take oath and she has taken oath on the constitution of India. And it's that same constitution that dictates that her term is over to stand in the way like our legal experts have said is nothing short of contempt of court and a call to anarchy. I'm going to leave it at that. We're completely out of time. All [music] gentlemen, Radhika, thanks very much for joining us.

[00:46:49]>> [music]