Afrophobia, defined as hatred or fear directed specifically at other Africans from different nationalities, ethnicities, or cultures, represents a crisis of continental consciousness that threatens Pan-Africanism and African unity. This phenomenon, which overlaps with xenophobia (hostility toward foreigners), reveals a painful contradiction where Africans simultaneously advocate for African brotherhood and integration while expressing deep hatred among themselves. The surge of Fulani insurgency in Nigeria, with an estimated 30,000 armed militants operating across the country, exemplifies how ethnic tensions can escalate into violence. The root causes include economic hardship, political instability, the legacy of colonial borders that fragmented ethnic groups, and the unfinished business of colonialism. Addressing this crisis requires cultivating a deeper continental consciousness where African identity transcends national boundaries, and recognizing that the destiny of African peoples remains interconnected.
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Afrophobia and the Surge of Fulani InsurgencyAdded:
Good morning.
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Africa, arise and shine.
Nigeria, arise.
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It is splash 105.5 FM the integrity station.
The program is state affairs.
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It's about history.
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I am Edmund Doilo.
What are we talking about today?
We will talk about the surge of fani insurgency.
We will talk about the surge of afroofobia.
Afrophobia.
Did you see the report that came out during the week?
Did you go through the report?
Have you studied the report?
I am talking about a report released by the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom.
It is a report that paints a frightening picture of what is happening across Nigeria.
According to the report, an estimated 30,000 armed fani militants are operating across Nigeria in groups ranging from 10 to 1,000 members.
The report describes them as some of the deadliest non-state actors in Nigeria today.
On this edition of the program, we will go through the report.
Are you there?
Remember, it is about going deeper into the issues.
I was listening to a former president of South Africa, Tabum Becky, during the week.
Becky delivered a reflective address on xenophobia, afrophobia, unemployment, African unity, and the role of South Africa in Africa's development.
I'll bring you part of that speech and let's reflect on it.
Kayode Fi a former governor of Akit state was also in South Africa.
Fame delivered a deeply emotional address at the 16th Africa Day lecture hosted by the Tabo Becki Foundation and the University of South Africa in Cape Town.
You will listen to part of his address on this edition of State Affairs.
So when we talk about afrophobia, xenophobia in Africa, what are we talking about?
Let's go on this journey together.
Africa has long spoken the language of unity.
So we talk about organization of African unity right?
Some have argued that Africa is a country, right?
From the dreams of panafricanism, a dream preached bywame kuruma.
An idea that was pushed by Julius understood the concept of panfricanism.
Nami Yaziki way understood it keenly.
It's this same idea that led to the creation of the organization of African unity.
Now the African Union, Africa has always imagined itself as one people divided artificially by colonial borders.
But as we look deeper into the character of the African, it seems this ideal lies within a painful contradiction.
Africans have often turned against fellow Africans with extraordinary violence, suspicion, and hatred.
And you can even see it within African states.
In Nigeria, it is the fani against the EU. The EU against the Euroba, the Euroba against the fani in the Congo. Congo is devastated as we speak. It is a product of ethnic rivalry.
And we have transcended outside the borders of the state to exhibit such hatreds amongst ourselves.
South Africa is a clear example. You are Nigerian. Leave our country.
So this contradiction is embodied in two closely related concept and the concepts are xenophobia and afrophobia.
When we talk of xenophobia, we talk about hostility towards foreigners or outsiders.
Afrophobia in the African context describes hatred or fear directed specifically at other Africans, often black Africans from different nationalities, ethnicities, or cultures.
Why the two terms overlap?
Afrophobia exposes a deeper tragedy.
Africans rejecting other Africans while simultaneously speaking of African brotherhood.
They mount African brotherhood, African unity, African integration.
On the other hand, they express deep hatred among themselves across the continent, from South Africa to Libya, from code of war to Kenya, from Ghana to Nigeria, Xenophobic tensions have erupted into violence, discrimination, extortions, and social and social exclusion.
You saw the plane from South Africa during the week.
More than 200 Ghanaians were airlifted by the Ghanaian government from South Africa back to Ara because South Africans are saying leave our country.
It's our land. You have no place here.
If you are a Nigerian listening to me in South Africa, don't run away. Stay there.
You know why?
South Africa belongs to all of us and we must begin to understand the concept of solidarity even within Nigeria enough.
We will come to that discrimination, exportions, social exclusion.
These tensions reveal deep anxieties over identity, economic survival, political manipulation, migration, and the unfinished legacy of colonialism.
Even Donald Trump cannot send Nigerians out.
America belongs to all force.
Nigeria belongs to all fours.
It's our land.
Yes, we understand the concept of borders, but we also understand the concept of solidarity and humanity.
Africa is backward because of this biased concept of existence.
Africa has refused to open itself to deep reasoning and therefore African people continue to pursue biases that lead to war and underdevelopment.
Go and study the Congo and you see what ethnicism has done to that country.
The Liberian civil war was a product of ethnicity.
Nigeria has fought an ethnic war.
Before colonial rule, African societies were fluid.
Communities traded, migrated, intermarried, and moved across territories that had no modern borders.
So what happened?
The Berlin Conference of 1884 to 1885 fragmented Africa into colonial possessions, dividing ethnic groups while forcing unrelated communities into artificial states.
Unrelated communities in quotes they are related their humanity.
The concept of humanity and solidarity is key in this discourse.
Are you there?
It is splash 105.5 FM the integrity station. The program is state affairs. The radio man is here.
The radio man's time.
Children, where are you?
Have we found them?
The babies, what are they eating in the forest?
Somehow we have to bring them home.
Their adoption is terrorism and it must be countered.
It is man's inhumity to man and we must fight.
When I say fight, I'm not saying go and bear arms.
I am saying we must fight the decadence that continue to hold our people down.
After independence, these colonial borders became national frontiers.
Suddenly Africans who once moved freely became foreigners to themselves.
A Euroba trader in Ben Republic, a Yawa merchant in Ghana or a Somali pastoralist crossing East Africa could now be treated as outsiders.
National identity slowly replaced older civilizational and ethnic networks.
Economic hardship and political instability later intensified this transformation.
Governments and populations increasingly blamed immigrants for unemployment, crime, insecurity and pressure on public resources.
Ghana Ghana started all this at the highest level.
Also, Ghana became the most integrated African state at Ghana's independence in 1957.
Ghana was the home to all Africans.
Africans who had value to express Kuruma invited Africans. Come, come, let's build Ghana together.
Africans moved to Ghana.
Africans celebrated Ghana because Ghana and Quame and Kuruma made the point that Ghana's independence was meaningless unless it led to the total liberation of the African continent.
No matter the saints ofqame kruma, I give it to him for the African brotherhood that he expressed. He is the father of panafricanism.
He gave Africans the chance. He saw the power of brotherhood. But Tafawa Balwa did not understand it.
Let me just take you into it a bit.
The history of Africa after independence is filled with dreams, betrayals, migrations, and painful contradictions.
One of the most controversial episodes in West African history was the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Africans, African migrants from Ghana after the overthrow ofwamer Kruma in 1966.
That event exposed the fragility of Panaffrican ideals and revealed how economic hardship and political instability could rapidly transform brotherhood into hostility.
When Ghana became the first subsaharan African country to gain independence from colonial rule in 1957, Unuruma envisioned the country not merely as a nation state but as the spiritual headquarters of African liberation. He famously declared the independence of Ghana is meaningless unless it is linked up with the total liberation of Africa.
Under Krummer, Ghana opened its door to Africans from across the continent.
Nigerians, Togoles, Nigerians, Ivorians, Bukinabi, Malians and many others migrated to Ghana in large numbers. Some came as traders, artisans, teachers, laborers, civil servants or political exiles, escaping colonial repression elsewhere.
Ghana's booming cocoa economy and ambitious industrial projects created opportunities unavailable in many neighboring countries. So, Acra became a magnet for African intellectuals, activists and workers.
African migrants could easily settle in Ghana.
Foreign Africans were integrated into commerce and labor. Ghana projected itself as the political center of black liberation.
Panaffricanism was promoted as a sacred ideological mission.
However, beneath the optimism lay economic tensions that would later explode. and it exploded violently andqwame krummer was toppled in a CIA sponsored coup.
At the fall ofwame and kruma hell was unleashed on African migrants in Ghana.
See the most dramatic face came under the government of prime minister Kofi Abreusa.
I will tell the Ghanaian story on another edition of state affairs and I will tell the Nigerian story because Nigeria retaliated but now we are focused on South Africa.
Hey, how are you this morning?
It is splash 105.5 FM.
The integrity station.
The radio man is here.
South Africa.
No African country has become more associated with afrophobia than South Africa.
Ironically, South Africa's li liberation struggle received enormous support from other African nations.
Nigeria funded anti-appetite campaigns.
Zambia hosted exiles.
Tanzania trained ANC fighters.
Many African states imposed sanctions on the appetite regime.
It was a collective struggle. Nigeria was a frontline state.
After appetite ended in 1994, resentment against African migrants grew steadily among sections of the South African population.
In May 2008, violence exploded in Johannesburg and spread to other townships.
Mobs attacked migrants from Zimbabwe, Muzzanek, Malawi, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Nigeria.
Homes and shops were looted and burned.
Africans were killed in South Africa.
One of the most horrifying images from the attacks was the burning alive of Enesto, a Musambican man in Ramafousa informal settlement.
The violence shocked the continent.
Africans watched fellow Africans haunted in the streets simply because they spoke differently, owned businesses or were perceived as economic competitors.
Another major wave erupted in 2015 after inflammatory comments by Zulu King Godwin and his comment were interpreted as encouraging foreigners to leave South Africa.
Violence spread through Duban and Johannesburg.
Foreignowned shops were attacked and thousands fled to temporary refugee camps.
In 2019, violence targeted Nigerians, Ethiopians, Somalis, and other African-owned businesses. Several people were killed.
Nigeria evacuated some of its citizens from South Africa amid the growing outrage.
South Africa's government repeatedly denied that the attacks were xenophobic, arguing instead that they were ordinary, that they were ordinary criminalities.
However, victims and observers noted that African migrants were specifically targeted while non-African foreigners often escaped similar hostility that is afrophobia.
Former president of South Africa Tabum Becky delivered a powerful address on afrophobia, unemployment, African unity and South Africa's role in continental development during a highlevel business breakfast hosted by the Thabouki Foundation in collaboration with Nepad.
Let's listen to part of that speech.
Now we've got many problems here.
Problem legitimately raised huge levels of unemployment.
That's correct. High levels of crime.
That's correct.
But the finger is being pointed at wrong people.
The levels of high unemployment in this country are not due. They are not due to undocumented Africans.
>> They're not.
We know the history in detail of how South Africa 1994 to 20208 2009 the country goes up like this.
Growth rates reach 6%.
From 2009 goes the opposite direction.
Wasn't caused by undocumented immigrants.
The people who caused that tightly look at it that decline they're laughing in a corner there cuz we're pointing not at them but we're pointing somewhere else.
It's wrong.
It's a problem the South Africans must deal with.
You can imagine what the person in Guinea Konaki says that I I now say to this Gin Konaki was in walking the streets of Johannesburg go home they don't understand it and the reason they don't understand it is because during the course of the struggle the continent came to own South Africa if you are very very much South African This South African struggle was not just a South African struggle. It was their struggle.
So one prediction I will make the Africans will continue to come to South Africa. Doesn't matter what you do.
You can't change the hearts and the minds of this African. It's a particular frame of mind with regard to South Africa which they help to liberate.
What we as South Africans have got to do is to say how do we deal with this?
You are not going to solve the problem of unemployment here by shouting against undocumented Africans and leave the culprit. The culprits are sitting here.
I can even tell you their names.
What were pointing fingers at the wrong people and people are shouting shouting shouting.
I'm saying that there's a regression that's taken place. That sense of African integration that we had 25 years ago, I think has recented.
Why?
I don't know. But that's a question that we must ask and answer. I'm saying the internalization of this integration of the African continent among us South Africans is not there.
when maybe I'm not mag it's it's declined.
You have a similar phenomenon on the continent state affairs with Edmund Doilo is live.
That is Thabo Umbi, former president of South Africa speaking during the week.
But why South Africa?
Several factors feared South African afrophobia.
There is massive unemployment and inequality in the country. There is frustration among poor black South Africans after appetite.
There are weak public services in South Africa and political rhetoric blaming immigrants has become a subject that must be dealt with and there are criminal networks exploiting social tensions in that country.
Kayed Fami a former governor of Akit state was in South Africa as a guest lecturer.
He spoke on African integration, on leadership and on Afrosphobia.
He spoke at the 16th Africa Day lecture hosted by the Thaboubecki Foundation and the University of South Africa in Cape Town.
Fire me spoke like a statement.
But no conversation about African unity can avoid the question of solidarity because solidarity is ultimately the moral foundation upon which Panaffricanism rests.
African unity cannot be sustained merely through treaties, summits or diplomatic declarations.
It must be rooted in a shared emotional and historical consciousness.
A recognition that the destiny of African peoples remains interconnected.
The great contemporary architects of pan-Africanism understood this very clearly. great leaders such aswamin Krummer, Juliuser, Pachis Lumumba, Nelson Mandela and if I dare say so Tago and Becky to site a few of them understood it and their legacy has consistently reminded us that Africa's future not only depends not only on economic cooperation but also quite importantly on the cultivation of a deeper continental consciousness.
Panaffricanism was never simply about political coordination among states.
It was fundamentally a moral project.
A project grounded in the belief that the dignity of one African is tied to the dignity of all Africans.
And that is why we must confront honestly and courageously the troubling rise of aphroia and xenophobia within parts of our continent including here in South Africa.
Let me speak carefully but candidly because I'm a Nigerian.
South Africa's liberation was not won by South Africans alone.
Thankfully, President Inbecki recently reminded us of that solemn truth.
The entire apathide struggle became a continental responsibility.
Across Africa, nations and citizens made sacrifices in support of South Africa's freedom.
African countries offered sanctuary to exiles and liberation movements.
As a young university student in Nigeria in the early 1980s, I and several of my colleagues gained our Panaffrican consciousness working at the ANC and SWAPO offices in Kei Lagos under the tutled of President Becky, then our chief representative of ANC and later comrades Mark Shopee and Comrade Victor Mlo.
successive chief representatives and also comrade Kala and Hammanete chief representatives of Swapo in Nigeria at the time.
African workers and taxpayers contributed resources to support the liberation effort. African intellectuals mobilized international solidarity.
African leaders paid diplomatic and economic cost in confronting aparatite.
Nigeria among many others stood firmly in support of South Africa's liberation.
But this was not charity.
It was solidarity.
It was an understanding that oppression anywhere in Africa threatened dignity everywhere in Africa. This shared history matters profoundly and that is why violence or hostility directed at fellow Africans anywhere on the continent must concern us deeply.
Afrophobia is not merely a law enforcement issue or a question of migration policy.
It represents a crisis of continental consciousness that negates the continental renaissance that we all seek.
But at the same time, we must approach this issue with maturity and honesty.
Xenophobia does not imagine a social vacuum.
It is often fueled by economic inequality, unemployment, weak with governance, poor service delivery, political manipulation and institutional distrust.
I do not minimize the genuine hardship that produce such desperate reasonings.
Youth unemployment is not a statistic.
It is a daily humiliation.
And when institutions fail to provide relief, communities will sometimes violently seek to define the boundary of who belongs to where.
Ghanaians did it in 1969 when the Busia government sent Nigerians backing.
Nigeria retaliated in 1979 and 1981 when the Shagari government sent Ghanaians back home in the Ghana must go episode.
In societies where citizens feel economically insecure, frustration can easily be redirected toward the most vulnerable groups.
But that understanding is not exoneration.
Whilst we must acknowledge these pressures which are largely the inheritance of appetite structural deformationations, we must never legitimize violence or exclusion against fellow Africans.
If Africans cannot coexist peacefully with one another, then the dream of continental integration will remain fundamentally weakened.
The African continental free trade area cannot flourish in an atmosphere of mutual suspicion.
Regional integration cannot deepen where fear and hostility dominate public life.
Africa therefore requires a renewed ethos of continental citizenship that emphasizes that sovereignty is not in conflict with solidarity.
We must teach younger generations that being proudly Nigerian, South African, Kenyan, Ghanaian or Seneagalles is entirely compatible with being proudly African.
>> Here we go.
>> State affairs with Edmund Oilo is live.
Stay tuned.
Heat. Heat.
Hey, hey, hey.
Hey, hey, hey.
All right, it's time to get your feedback on the subject.
You can call on WhatsApp.
The WhatsApp number to call is 080349849.
That's the WhatsApp number to call 080349 18449.
Let's have a conversation on afrophobia, xenophobia, panafricanism.
Let me see. You can also leave your comments.
You can leave your comments.
I'll be happy to read your comments.
to join the discus.
All right.
Let me see what's going here. What's going on here?
Okay, I am on YouTube at the moment.
Okay, I can see what's going on here.
So, join the discuss. Call 083918449.
Did you get the number?
WhatsApp call. You can call from every part of the world as long as there's internet and WhatsApp usage in the country.
Afrophobia.
And we will be looking at the surge of fani insurgency and the implication the surge of fani insurgency and the implication you know for some time we've pretended about it.
Oh, mind the way you use the name fan so that we don't trigger ethnic conflict and that is true. We must manage it.
But as we manage it by the day it becomes clearer and clearer that there is fani insurgency.
So what does it mean?
The fani insurgency in this case does not apply to every fani but there is an insurgency driven mainly by those from the fani ethnic group.
How do we manage that insurgency?
What is the implication of that insurgency?
And what is that insurgency driving odd?
Do we understand it?
What are the curses of the insurgency?
And this is where African scholars must rise and begin to study it.
As anger rises, reason must come in.
Reason is deeper than anger.
Reason is about understanding.
Understanding is about finding solution.
If reason loses its platform, it explodes into anger.
And what anger does is to escalate.
Does escalation solve the problems? What do you think?
in the state affairs that coyote fire me speech at the Tabum Becky at the 16th Africa day lecture hosted by the Tabum Becky Foundation and the University of South Africa in Cape Town is eyeopening.
It's about 35 minutes speech and I was happy it was delivered by a Nigerian and FI addressed the growing crisis of afrophobia and xenophobia in South Africa and across Africa.
He warns that division among Africans threatens the very foundation of pan-Africanism and continental unity.
Fei reminds us and his South African audience that South Africa's liberation was not worn by South Africans alone.
In that lecture, fire me reflects on the sacrifices made by African countries during the anti-appathite struggle and warns that hostility against fellow Africans represent a crisis of continental consciousness.
So that lecture explored xenophobia and afrophobia in South Africa.
Fire miss lecture talks about panafricanism and African identity.
I Send us to listen to Tabum Becky and Fire Me again.
Now we've got many problems here.
Problem legitimately raised huge levels of unemployment.
That's correct. High levels of crime.
That's correct.
But the finger is being pointed at wrong people.
The level the levels of high unemployment in this country are not due. They are not due to undocumented Africans.
>> They're not.
We know the history in detail of how South Africa 1994 to 20208 2009 the country goes up like this growth rates reach 6%.
From 2009 goes the opposite direction wasn't caused by undocumented immigrants.
The people who caused that tightly look at it that decline they're laughing in a corner there cuz we're pointing not at them but we're pointing somewhere else.
It's wrong.
It's a problem the South Africans must deal with.
You can imagine what the person in Guinea Konaki says that I I now say to this Gin Konaki was in walking the streets of Johannesburg go home.
They don't understand it.
And the reason they don't understand it is because during the course of the struggle the continent came to own South Africa.
If you're very much a South African, this South African struggle was not just a South African struggle. It was their struggle.
So one prediction I will make the Africans will continue to come to South Africa. Doesn't matter what you do.
You can't change the hearts and the minds of this African. It's a particular frame of mind with regard to South Africa which they help to liberate.
What we as South Africans have got to do is to say how do we deal with this?
You are not going to solve the problem of unemployment here by shouting against undocumented Africans and leave the culprit. The culprits are sitting here.
I can even tell you their names.
What were pointing fingers at the wrong people and people are shouting, shouting, shouting.
I'm saying that there's a regression that's taken place. That sense of African integration that we had 25 years ago, I think has recented.
Why?
I don't know. But that's a question that we must ask and answer. I'm saying the internalization of this integration of the African continent among us South Africans is not there.
when maybe I'm not mag it's it's declined.
You have a similar phenomenon on the continent.
>> State affairs with Edmund Doilo is live.
>> The future of the continent will not be secured merely through speeches or charismatic personalities. It will be secured through the patient and disciplined construction by visionaries of capable institutions that are able to stand the test of time.
But we also require strong universities, research institutions, policy centers capable of generating African solutions to African challenges. We require transparent public finance systems that reduce corruption and improve service delivery. We require effective local governance structures that bring democratic accountability closer to the ordinary citizens. Above all, we require institutions capable of earning and sustaining public trust. Trust is the currency of legitimacy.
This is why visionary leadership matters profoundly. And by this type of leadership, I do not refer merely to political office holders. I refer to leadership understood as ethical stewardship.
Leadership grounded in restraint, responsibility, and institutional vision. It is leadership that is savvy and forwardlooking. Africa needs leaders who understand that power is temporary, but institutions are enduring.
We need leaders prepared to build systems that outlive their own tenure in office. We need leaders capable of resisting the temptation to personalize the state or weaken institutions for short-term political gain and personal gratification.
Africa needs leaders who place the national interest above personal interest.
>> Here we go.
>> State affairs with Edmund Oilo is live.
Stay tuned.
But no conversation about African unity can avoid the question of solidarity.
It is splash 105.5 FM the integrity station.
All right, let's start the conversation.
You heard that speech by Coyote Fire.
a speech he delivered in South Africa on the occasion of the celebration of the 16th Africa day, a lecture hosted by the Taboi Foundation and the University of South Africa in Cape Town.
What do you think? Let's talk. Call on WhatsApp 080 triple 98 449 080 918 449 WhatsApp call and remember if you are listening on your radio set you will experience delay So if you are using your radio set to monitor your call, you might be confused because there will be delay. I am streaming. This is internet broadcasting. I am not broadcasting from Splash FM studio in I am broadcasting from outside Nigeria.
So once you call and I pick your call just listen to your phone not your radio. All right. Thank you. So the number to call is 089 18449.
So we have looked at the issue of xenophobia, afrophobia, but it is a disturbing issue in Nigeria.
For some time we have been careful on how we handle the subject because the subject comes with ethnic dimensions and ethnic issues are also volatile issues.
But as we continue to define it calmly, it is taking a stronger form.
That is not to say that we must throw caution to the wind.
No.
But let's call a spade. A spade.
Okay. Let's take this call.
Good morning.
>> Good morning, Mr. >> My name is Hayund and I'm calling from >> Can you hear me?
>> I can hear you.
>> Thank you very much. Um I just want to make a comment on um the issue of Satuka. I happen to I've lived in South Africa um in the past. I I lived there for about 3 years and I'm also um a commentator with Post.
Uh so I'm a little bit acquainted with uh what is going on. So I think as as you've analyzed uh what I am reading from here is that there is uh some amount of of energy from some forces you know that are interested in division between Africans and this is what I am seeing being projected. I I I have no doubt that this is being sponsored by some elements. Of course, there are other areas that we can look at. I mean, as Tabbeeki has said, as FI has said, somehow economic problems that are happening in in South Africa is also a great contributor to this. However, I think that there are some people somewhere who are interested in dividing Africans and this is why they think Africans are the problem here. If you look critically, you will see that I mean this has been happening. Of course, I lived there between 2012 to 2014 and then 2016. And this time it wasn't very I mean it has happened in the past but it wasn't very you know as as as brutal as it is right now. And I what I'm reading from from this is that there are some people who are more interested in dividing us. And I think the solution going forward is retaliation. Not not not physical retaliation, but of course for African countries to also uh replicate what Ghanaian governments have done. Of course to boycott to for Nigerians as well to make sure that our citizens are safe. I remember going to the uh Nigerian embassy with someone to get passport to renew passport and the kind of imulation that we faced at the Nigerian embassy to renew passport was too much. So if our own government can do that to us then what happens to an ordinary Nigerian who are roaming on the street of Pritoria or or Thank you very much. Uh I just rest my case.
>> Thank you. Thank you. All right. The line is open.
Remember, limit your comments to within 3 minutes.
Okay? I know we have a lot to say.
We have a lot to say, but also watch the time as you speak. Okay? Thank you.
We have talked about afrophobia.
Let's talk about fani militants. Hello. Good morning.
>> Good morning. Good afternoon here in United Arab Emir.
Uh my name is Kazin. I'm Nigerian.
>> Hello.
>> Yes, I'm listening.
>> Oh, thank you. I'm very happy and honored to be talking to you here. I follow your program and uh on this special one uh I just want to give my contributions. Uh uh my governor Mr. FE me delivered a very wonderful statement there and uh I have been one of my hackers because when I see
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