Raila Was The Leader This Country Deserved. Killings Are Done By The Government - Kasmuel McOure

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]It's Friday. Many things have happened and we've already been able to deliver the morning in numbers. Uh the numbers are telling you what it looks like. Um whether you're looking at fuel prices, whether you're looking at election results, by election results, the numbers will speak. And as they say, the numbers will never lie. Uh we're getting into uh a time this morning where we'll have our first conversation for the day.

[00:00:20]Our live streams are up. YouTube, Facebook on on X and our audience on KTN this morning. Thank you for being in the situation room. And um as we get into it today, both our guests are here as we're talking about um um France Kenya ties and looking at what happened over this week and where um the perspective of the youth comes into all of this. Many conversations were had. One of the big issues was to discuss with youth with young people in terms of where their countries are going um with France. And to help us in this conversation this morning um Angel Buuda is a national chairperson of the Jubilee Youth League and she's here with us this morning.

[00:00:57]Good morning, Angel. Good morning D.

[00:00:59]>> Karibana Santis Sana. I'm happy to be in the home of the boldest newspaper.

[00:01:04]>> Oh, thank you for being here.

[00:01:06]>> Cast makur is also here um ODM youth leader and joins us as well. Good morning, Caswell.

[00:01:10]>> Morning d minutes.

[00:01:11]>> It has >> very very happy to be here.

[00:01:13]>> You're keeping well.

[00:01:14]>> I am >> fantastic. Thank you both for coming um today as we talk about these things.

[00:01:19]Let's look into them in depth. But first of all, as you know, we go around the African continent every week. We come into a different country and we come back with your proverbs. This week we've been in the kingdom of Eswatini.

[00:01:30]>> It's a good kingdom that one >> it is >> multiple proverbs.

[00:01:34]>> I I'm sure >> and other things >> and other things.

[00:01:37]>> For now there's a thing called watershed. So let's stay with the proverbs. Um a person whose heart is not content is like a snake which tries to swallow an elephant.

[00:01:51]A person whose heart is not content is like a snake which tries to swallow an elephant. We'll start with you Angel.

[00:01:58]That reminds me of the Swahili version of it sambar.

[00:02:03]>> You try to bite more than you can chew.

[00:02:06]>> And uh I think that uh when we when I look at my country, I am seeing exactly that we are digging so deeply into the pockets of uh the people of Kenya and uh very soon it's going to come and bite us back. And I think even there are pastors and uh there's a bishop who was preaching somewhere and he said that those the ones who are stealing they should not steal everything because they should leave some for those who are coming next.

[00:02:37]>> Now we've become a nation that is tolerant to to corruption and embezzlement and we are forgetting that.

[00:02:45]I mean how much do you need to live in this world to survive in this world at the expense of others when others have nothing and you have everything?

[00:02:54]>> What does it mean? What are you looking?

[00:02:56]We are still going to end up 6 ft under.

[00:02:59]>> I think we need to rethink our choices and stop being this snake that wants to swallow an elephant.

[00:03:04]>> Wow.

[00:03:05]>> That's what you Okay.

[00:03:08]>> I mean it's uh to me I can't belabor it. Um, first of all, I think the proverb is is self-explanatory, but if you just think about it on the surface level, a snake would still get its nourishment if it stuck to rodents. It would still end up with its digestive or biological processes. Um, if it took a rat.

[00:03:34]However, you know, just like the human condition where we always want more and more and more, a snake could most definitely bite an elephant and cause and kill it even.

[00:03:45]I I could argue. However, it's both.

[00:03:48]It's wasteful to both. And we've seen this and like when you see the pythons, we call them in our in our language.

[00:03:54]It's a whole goat or whatever. And then it ends up dying as well. While it could have like it could be symbiotic where it could have stay stuck stuck in its lane had enough of what it's required and still it because if you try to swallow it all at once as well that becomes chaotic and I to me I think >> it could be looked at at the surface level but also could be looked at the personal level where sometimes we spread ourselves too thin. Um but of course because this is a is a national conversation we see this um in in in the permutation of rapid changes in the in the undertakings of of in national undertakings that we might not have the capacity for whether it's in government um taking on um more too too much too quickly or it's in the citizenry as well um demanding for more without the accountability or the structures that are required to achieve It >> interesting very I keep saying I think the human mind is fascinating >> because one thing can bring out so many you know angles that we can all learn from >> right >> um so even as we get into this conversation and talking about taking on more than you can chew it seems as though African nations this week uh took on a different agenda and uh said okay we're moving forward I don't know which direction we're moving previously but okay it seems as though this week is when Africa now is moving forward fine then all right and that happened because um you know uh the president of France made it very clear that he wanted to do this and decided that he was going to do that with Kenya as the co-pivot um for this the youth agenda came into play during these uh conversations pre sideline and postsummit um what are your thoughts is Africa now moving forward now that this has been done and the youth have been brought into the conversation >> well do when I look at uh the theater which we have had in the past few days uh looking at Macron and uh President William R and their body language I think William R thought Trump was his role model but he just found his icon in President Mcron >> I mean the run with Elude Kipchogi how did that escape William R that is a perfect PR stunt that he didn't even think about >> and and when when we look at the demeanor of of of Macron even when he was speaking to the young people. You saw how he stood up to to to to in a condescending manner asking uh people to hush hush because someone was speaking.

[00:06:30]And I remember when we were in school, our teachers would uh when when you make noise in a class, our teachers would ask you to come to the front and say exactly what you were saying um at the back. I I thought that that's what he would have done as a leader and asked one of the um the attendees on in the forum to come forward and express what it is they were trying to say from the back of the room.

[00:06:56]And what I saw from Macron is is an inspiration for William R because he is described by the French people as a man who is uh cold-hearted. He has a personal charm at at the same time he has an interstellar ego and he he he brandishes his presidency as being like uh he likens it to the planet Jupiter.

[00:07:19]So giving him a Jupitarian ego and bringing him to the four in the African continent. He believes in a topdown leadership. He takes little advice from his advisers. something we have seen before here at home where we have William RT who is only advised by Samoai and in occas in other occasions are advised by RT in others by William sometimes they conflict and that is his team or panel of advices and if these are the people who are coming to the young people of Kenya this generation anempowered generation an educated generation as I sit here I can know real time what is going on in Nigeria I can know in real time what is going in going on in Bukina Faso. I can know in real time what is going on in South Africa.

[00:08:07]We are a much more empowered generation.

[00:08:09]We are not in the era where we have to wait for newspapers in the morning to know what has been happening in the region. We are able to access information right from our fingertips.

[00:08:20]And I believe that the Kenyan government fears our mobile phones more than it fears missiles from Iran or elsewhere in any part of the world. And so looking at that forward summit and and like you rightfully said you don't know which direction we were whether we were in the wrong direction previously or where which direction exactly we were facing.

[00:08:42]This is just a perfect platform to colonize the minds of the young people >> because the the French and the West African relationship has been marred by a lot of um geopolitical hypocrisy. You know, the French like talking about democracy and and in in the backdrop when you go to even some of these West African states, it's a sorry sad state of affairs. When you're kept in constant wars, you have no time to develop your nation. And when we are in an era talking about peace and security, we are not talking about strengthening our military bases. These military bases are the same ones that are going to be used against young people like myself and Caswell. I mean the former Kasmuel when we were fighting for the uh freedom and for the transparency and accountability of our nation. I think that this era is an era that requires more investment in energy, in education, in healthcare, not about military bases. and and the West African states have seen how uh France has been using the the narrative of countering terrorism and that in their way uh gives them an avenue to penetrate into their states that Macron says that the f West African states should thank France and these are the right people we are bringing into Kenya a nation that we are uh we love so much and we are working to build and cut out cut off colonial ties and we are welcoming them right at our doorstep. I mean Caswell's lookalike Tom Boyer if he woke up today he would be utterly disappointed by what William R is doing to our country. Hm.

[00:10:33]Okay. Um Tom Buer look alike. I I just picked that up. Um that was fine. It's um seems I mean from Angel's assertions is not very happy with this because it could have been an opportunity for something else uh turned to was this a way forward. uh we look at Africa's youth and if you just look at the last five or four years uh Casmo that there have been uprisings around nations whether you look from NSA in Nigeria to give us bread in Egypt to what happened in Sudan if you want to look into Rwanda Botswana Namibia South Africa Kenya Madagascar led by the youth who have said you know what we're taking back our country uh in one way or another was this an opportunity to do that further with the relationship that has been renewed with France.

[00:11:25]>> Um first of all I think um we we have to we ought to look at it from a a more balanced perspective and I understand why um Angel Woods lyrical um again you know as a chair of the youth league of of Jubilee they need to reinvent themselves and therefore any air time that can be afforded them I think she has to capitalize. Um it is it is perplexing that Angel just decided to look at the person of Macron and not the contents of the summit or resulting um benefits or lack thereof. I expected her as an alumni of um the University of Nairobi to highlight that 5.6 6 billion will be invested in the engineering wing um to further stem and hopefully produce minds that will um redeem this country.

[00:12:19]I expected that to be at the front and this is what happens when you're when you're blinded by negativity is we we then fail to find to to look at the issues with a fine tooth comb. The thing that makes it um and that's amongst many other things I think out of this summit Kenya has has benefited greatly in the sense that there's 127 billion that has been left um here. I might have my reservations about France and and we because we're looking at it as a as a youth perspective. There are deeper issues with this. But the reason why Kenya seems as um this seems like an opportunity and I'm I'm thinking about this in a diplomatic sense is we do not have uh previous relationships with previous relations with France. Uh we certainly do not have colonial time with them. But uh we if if we are to to extend the same for the goose, it must be the same for the gander. It cannot be that uh for example we we will cozy up to Britain, we will coy up to America um and and and then pretend that when good things are happening to us from France that this suddenly becomes becomes bad. And I'm saying this fully cognizant of the fact that our generation also has to we have to step out of hypocrisy. we have to say that uh we either we will not work with the global north or with the western powers or we will find ways to uh meaningfully collaborate and I use this word very carefully um for for the betterment of our generation. I'm saying this knowing full well that uh we're the same people that you find people saying that down with American imperialism for example but uh Angel and I are alumni of the same program that is fully sponsored by the American government. So it cannot be that by day by by day we chant down with American imperialism and then by night we want to find whatever benefits exist there and even I in the furtherance of course I can see the what what people might be the push back might be against is because we want to tour we want to um all the luxuries and trappings of of of the French exceptionalism but what people are pushing back against of course is a neoc colonialist aspect of it where we do not want to be um enslaved or we do not want an extractive or exploitative relationship >> and that makes sense to you somehow.

[00:14:37]>> It does. I think I think it does because um we're allowed to want this we're human. What I think the extraction I disagree with as well. So if funds were to come in here um on an extractive thing and I see um some some some very valid points where for example there are troops that have been brought that uh cannot are not subject to our our judicial systems. I think that is questionable even in terms of of of our foreign policy. But then the port in Mombasa I think there's about 104 billion going in there. Of course, this could be to for whatever interest France has, but we also must find ask ourselves, are these necessary things? We must either reject them in totality or accept them wholly and find ways um of of working together because we cannot remain in a state of perpetual romanticization of um of conflict. For example, um Grassa Michelle was here for crying out loud. I don't think that um Angel for example is is a bigger revolutionary than Grassa Michelle. um uh she's been the the first lady of of two African countries um and and her role uh in in in in the emancipation of our people cannot be overstated. But she was here at the Africa forward summit and her interaction with the with the young people she said that that was it was precious and she was saying worth two on the and this could be controversial but I don't see anything wrong that President Mron did when he stood up and told the room to quiet down >> first if you that's how I know a person who was following or who was invested in the summit is that >> if you're here as young people because remember it was young people who are speaking about culture which is something that is rather important to us. If there are people in a room that you have purposefully decided to go into that you applied to get into, it's either we do away with this whole thing and say that let's just skip to the concert where all of us can be noisy or let's listen to what's going on because we cannot be looking for a few clicks and and whatever. Again, contextually the room was very loud and there was several breakout rooms. So, I don't see why if I would do the same. Of course, contextually you would do say whatever it is, but we ought to respect ourselves first before we demand for respect elsewhere because if we were silent, I don't think we would have seen this. We would have used this opportunity to further our agenda um in a in a better fashion. But yeah, interesting. Same event, different you know uh opinions as it should be because again we come from a different uh set of uh you know uh perspectives politically.

[00:17:15]The question is French is known to be looking for a new home within the continent because they've lost their camp from the west. Now they've come down to the east and in all rights or manners of them having to do that as they should because they in trade uh to protect their interest. Uh then there's no there's nothing wrong with them coming to the east African part of the continent. However, the question is and this I guess this is what Kenyans are struggling to understand is that much has been promised you know and something billion we still do trade with France you know we export maybe what 16 billion but we import around 30 billion it's an imbalance but that is fine but the ultimate question is the countries where the French is living or has left are not more developed than Kenya to the extent we would say we welcome them because we can see what they have done Bukinaasoir and many other places. So why Kenya now knowing that yes we are the hub of Africa. We know we are trying as you rightly say to you know unshack ourselves from the colonial systems that have continued to extract and exploit the continent. And if Kenya is seen as forwardlooking, hence I guess the name the forward summit. Uh is it the right move for us to make? Are we setting the correct precedent for the rest of the African countries in terms of trying to liberate ourselves economically and also politically?

[00:18:41]What do you feel about them coming to East Africa having lost their home in the West African part of the continent and now they have not left them any better? If I spoke to the youth of the Bukinabis, I'm sure the youth programs that were spelled out 10, 20 years ago have not benefited because we would know as you rightly say we live in a global village. You can easily tell we can ask even them now and they'll tell us. So who is fooling who?

[00:19:08]>> I think there were two people who are looking for homes in this summit.

[00:19:13]>> One definitely the French are looking for for a home from uh moving from West Africa now to East Africa. And then the other person looking for a home is William R once we chase him out of power in 2027 if he does make it that far. And uh when you are saying that we have an imbalance of trade between uh France and Kenya, >> they're looking to expand uh the Mombasa port as uh my colleague Kasm here rightly puts it >> and uh from that 100 billion you're talking about if that port is expanded it's going to go to 200 million 200 double triple the number is speculative and for Kenya maybe slightly higher but what are we exactly importing to this nation from France we are importing thing uh you know fancy suits uh big ties and uh heavy perfumes uh like my colleague Kasum here is a heavy consumer and I find that that is heifies of correction >> he has he he's definitely interested in ensuring that that Mumbai support is expanded and uh when we look at um the West African nations and uh their democratic ideals and when Kasum talks talks about um I should be excited that there'll be some billions going to expanding the engineering wing in uh in uh in the University of Nairobi and the youth of Bukinaasu will will tell me angel is only stories a jaba we have not had uh progressive education in our nations from our partnership with the French and uh I think um in my earlier years I worked with the all Africa students union and uh the headquarters based in Acra, Ghana and I worked there for a period of 3 years. So I had had the privilege of working in a West African country that is Ghana and also touring the West African uh neighbors of Ghana. And I have been to Benin, I have been to Togo, I have been to uh Bukinaaso that area around West Africa and I have seen it for myself firsthand how dilapidated their capital cities are, even live alone their villages.

[00:21:23]Everyone's dream is to work hard, get a visa and go to Paris. that can be what our nation and our continent is about.

[00:21:32]And uh I'd like to apologize to the youth of West Africa on behalf of Kasmwell because his thinking is wanting and he he does not stand with the ideals of our generation. And it is very sad when I talk to to the West African youth and they tell me that their reserves are still based in uh in France. Well, we are talking about the central bank of Kenya kind of model but based in London.

[00:21:59]I mean we would have to be >> to be to be to be working on a system that u based in London Angel um that is based on on our former colonial masters.

[00:22:10]>> That is exactly what is is going on in West Africa. And the French think that they are becoming better and uh they they're saying that their their reserved their reserves were 100% at some point they went to 65 at some point. Now they they're submitting 50% at as we speak today. And that is the worst form of colonialism ever. And um if I was uh I I I I didn't have the privilege of attending the summit in the University of Nairobi but I would have been the first person to quiet down Macron and tell him to free West Africa. I think it's utterly brutal what they doing to the West African nations talking about countering terrorism and in this age and decade we know that the when we talk about peace and security uh big conferences across the continent and across the world when you go into the issues about peace and security they all boil down to the young people lacking opportunities uh lack of employment uh lack of uh spaces where they can uh freely express themselves And uh when when I'm sure when William R saw Macron doing that, he was so excited to see him do that and he admired him in totality thinking how he can be him and even be better than him. So he should be celebrating he has found a new home where he will reside on the on the you know in September uh 2027.

[00:23:34]>> Okay.

[00:23:35]>> Okay. Sorry.

[00:23:38]you know, you look at it from a perspective that yes, of course, uh, commitments have been made, you know, uh, policies perhaps we be formulated from the summit that could be beneficial to Africa, but you're looking at the original scene and that's why people seem to be agitated that French as a country is known to have built its own uh, economy on the backs and sweat and blood of Africa that goes undisputed.

[00:24:03]But then you realize that what we getting are breadcrumbs and people are saying yes I think instead of coming to rescue the country called Kenya let's build our African Union you know so we can free ourselves progressively as a continent we can do better we don't need 100 billion we have that in Kenya if only we managed our economy better if only we collaborated better with other regions either from the global north or the far east we can still trade and do better The art of operation is where is being said that every at the end of every summit because he's not the first one we've had the Russia Kenyan Indian Kenyan now we had the French Kenyan and many others are going to come the point is that if we do not take home what is progressively progressively beneficial not just to the country but also to the continent we end up short changing now the youth because the future and the present is the youth.

[00:25:05]We can talk about uh sponsoring one institution but that does not change the fiber of the youthful non-economic enterprise that we are facing in the country. It actually does >> not not not significantly you know because it has to be at the policy value level where we know when the current president is not in office the next regime will still have progressive marks that we be able to say we are able to industrialize we able to manufacture we still export raw materials to to France we should have done value addition at least one more two three levels before it goes out there the same way we do not import essence we import perfume right so you pay premium and that is beneficial to them that's the dis the disquite Kenyans are having what's your take on that >> nobody owes development >> correct I don't I I don't subscribe to that ideology but also too what's this Kenyan exceptionalism that we why do we think of ourselves as better than the rest of the continent who who says we're here to set an example I mean I'm proud of my country but We're no better. We're no better than Nigeria. We're no better than South Africa. We're no better than any other nation. So I I think we have first of all to disabuse ourselves of the idea that we are to set an example.

[00:26:25]All we're supposed to do is ensure that we develop ourselves as much as we can and improve the human conditions of our people and the people of our motherland which is Africa without thinking of ourselves as as special because then we run into very um interesting challenges um where now I'm lost for words because then I ask myself first of all I say Kenya comes first. So I asked myself how how do these partnerships impact Kenya first and then hopefully the other countries are going to think of of that as well for their countries and it's it's going to be better and it's very interesting that um my colleague Angel mentions countries like Ghana mentions countries like Benin those countries were here they were they were represented here so on the one hand you cannot pretend that you you're fighting for them and some of your facts are awfully wrong. Um, while he wax lyrical, I think it would be better if we kept it factual. Um, Ghana, first of all, was was was not under under French colonialism. Um, however, if you think about it, it's insulting to the people of Ghana to say that uh you're apologizing to them. They sent their vote, their collective vote was here. The people of Ghana were here. The people of Benin were here. The people of Liberia, the first country that gained independence were here. the people of Sagal.

[00:27:48]Wait, President F was here.

[00:27:50]>> So I do not understand what these things which we of which we speak. Uh that um those are the democracies, those are the majorities of their democracies and and I think those ought to be respected in terms of development in terms of us advancing an agenda. It cannot be outsourced. We cannot look to France. We cannot look to London. We cannot look to Tokyo. We cannot look to New York or Washington for any of these things.

[00:28:13]development of our people must be must be done by our people and imperialism there's there's all sorts of it's for you know very many forms perpetrated by by Kenyans I can say this that the French have not had a detrimental effect in Kenya as president Kenyata did I dare say that I dare say that the black man in Kenya has oppressed us more than the the French man >> it might not be true for other countries but for the Kenyan context we cannot look at France as an imperial power and think that France has had greater detrimental effects than Joe Mkinata for example had. You would think that because he was part of of of the movement for example that gave us the liberation that he would de declassify Mau as as as as a as an organization. So just to clarify, you're saying that because France did not have a colonial effect in Kenya that it's possible that Kenya's people suffered greatly under a leader of its own origin. That there's no reason then why Kenya should not embrace France future which is present.

[00:29:18]>> I'm I'm not even speaking about us embracing. I'm just talking about us looking inward because most of the times the argument that's easy to make is the outward one is to just lamp France as a colonial power and now >> which they are.

[00:29:31]>> Yes. Which and I do not deny this.

[00:29:33]Nobody who has a a brain denies this >> but and and I'm saying this under the the pretext that we did not suffer from that.

[00:29:41]>> There are countries that were colonized by France that were here.

[00:29:44]>> So you want to tell me that certainly you want to wail more than the bererieved? But two, because we have not examined our infrastructure, our our own power imbalances here. And I keep on saying this, but Joe Minata plunes us into into this this whole um situation.

[00:29:59]The Mao only becomes decriminalized in 2003.

[00:30:03]>> Despite them fighting for independence through our first two presidents, we do not do fight for that. And then now subsequent governments um the massive looting, it was not orchestrated by France. It was orchestrated by our people. um all the for example the killings it's not the French doing the killing it's it's the sitting governments here and so we have to ask ourselves that this development thing um what are we doing as as Kenya first of all for ourselves because you think about Africa as a continent >> our collective debt is maybe six what >> $1.6 $6 trillion >> USD.

[00:30:40]>> Um the the amount that is held in in our banks through private sector, so I'm talking your um African Development Bank, your African Financial Corporation, your trade development bank, Afric.

[00:30:58]Trillion >> US dollars. If we wanted to pay off all our debts, we could.

[00:31:05]But I'm not seeing anybody um explore that that solution. And that solution, we cannot say that the solution has been hampered or hindered by external western powers. They could contribute. But we could make a conscious decision and say that as Africa regardless, we will decide that for example, we'll pay off debt. So Africa can actually solve its development problem on its own if you want if we wanted to. So then are you giving rise to the argument that then it's not necessary to be body >> yes >> with uh another nation >> who's already shown its hand in different parts of the con. They've shown their hand, let's be honest, and that they've not uh gone different.

[00:31:46]They're very far off from that hand that if we were to look into what's currently happening with France and its economy and it, you know, uh it social justice issues here and there that what they suffer from today because they do is not very different from what was happening in the 1940s, '50s,60s whereby they were still playing the colonial hand. Now is it then possible for us to actually agree and say Africa must then focus the youth and that was the question I was going to ask. What do the youth of the continent want today? The things that keep coming out are we hearing leadership? Are we hearing an um economy facing countries? Are we hearing uh coming together as African nations and saying this is what we want? We talk about this 1.3 billion people all the time in just you know certain parts of the continent. We talk about development. You talk about an an age whereby it is Africa's youth who are pushing economies in different countries. These are the things that people want. I'm hearing you say that these partnerships that people are spending days facing forward Africa, they're not necessary. If we look at the potential that Africa has to heal itself from within.

[00:32:52]I think that partnerships are still necessary but we have to recalibrate.

[00:32:57]>> They should be the focus. Yes, we have to recalibrate how we approach them because how else I think I would jump on any opportunity to have 30 heads of states in on the African continent >> first of all if there are 30 heads of states I think that should be the primary focus >> led by Africa led by Africa but in this case what we saw and I'm sorry to interrupt you because I I want to make that point so maybe you can answer based on that >> right >> that who should lead this conversation because it was very clear that um Emmanuel Macron said over and over again that this was my idea and I spoke to President William R and he agreed with me that we now help Africa face forward but we're using an external party to face forward on what Africa already knows is >> but is Africa facing forward because I'm looking at it and until we can face that I think these partnerships ought to be necessary >> now question is it France that's going to help Africa face forward >> if it's if if it France is what it takes for us to come together let it be France >> I'm saying that it shouldn't be but as stand.

[00:33:59]>> It currently is. I haven't seen we we barely could agree on on on things like uh the African Union chairman. We were looking for that. We didn't need France to intervene for that. But we of course Yeah, it went to Djibouti or whatever.

[00:34:14]But it's the first time now we're seeing outside um this transcended sort of transcended the borders. It's transcended Echo, SADC, EC and whatnot.

[00:34:25]If we can find more points of synergy, if we can find more points of connection without external in influence, which is proving to be rather difficult for African heads of states and why difficult in your assessment, which which I agree with, but why is it seemingly so difficult yet we have the resources as you rightly put it in our reserves, we can clear our debts, odious and sovereign, but why is it difficult for us to come together for a common cause? We even have an organization African Union and all the others you mention of liberating ourselves >> in your opinion >> of course the I would love to give an academic um deep answer but I think simplistically there are several challenges first of all they're cultural challenges which I don't think are that bad but it's an ego ego problem in the modern day we we all have an ego problem. We we usually say that that was um western interference. So that's why for example when Gaddafi was killed we yes there was I do not and I do not deny this there was and and actually part of of the things and I know this is outside the conversation the part of that's one of the biggest problems I have with an Obama presidency for example um and that's why for example I would favor Trump's presidency over presidency which is totally different conversation yes yes yes in the sense that what were they doing bombing Libya 8 months after there was so much war we're here and that's a totally different conversation.

[00:36:02]If the idea was as romantic as we said it was, >> the elimination of one leader should have ensured should have hastened the realization of that dream.

[00:36:12]>> Yep.

[00:36:13]>> Then it means that we we're participating in in some sort of chicannery in the sense that we claim that we want a united Africa. But despite being given all the reasons to have a united Africa, it still remains to be one of the most difficult things to do. And it seems as though Caswell is saying that well and if France is going to come and lead the way then why not not come and lead the way come and facilitate us coming together because it cannot lead the way because we have our sovereignty our sovereignty for example it's very hard for you for example to come to Kenya and and and and colonize at least not now um you could have economic sanctions you could have whatever of course which is also a form of that >> but I don't think if we decide as African countries is to just do what is expect do what is right by our people and by our continent >> maybe a different face a different front angel uh could it be >> that Macron found it easier to work with President R because he has portrayed himself to be I mean earlier on he had people started calling him the puppet of of the west you look at how he has managed our international relations with Sudan you know his pronounce announcements on Congo, they've always been off the majority of the African position. And when he's out there, he's trying to position himself as the speaker in quotes of the African continent. So he's more malleable, likable, usable by them, unlike people who will be seen as antagonist of the of the West or the former colonies of the of the African continent. Could there be a possibility that their alliance is based perhaps on their shared ideology which is still very colonial in my opinion and that President R has not come out as very progressive in terms of the modern times you're living in despite the historical injustices Caswell mentions which I agree with. uh we are in a modern era. We have a new constitution that we b we gave birth to as a country. But President R was not even able to defend that the other day when he went to Tanzania and the Tanzanian president was saying you should deal with people like you because both of you you are still in a revolution or the former Kas not this one the former Kasm and yourself were casualties or victims of what President Sulu was talking about. And I think the only thing President R needed to do was to say in Kenya we have a constitution that provides certain rights for people to agitate and you have a democracy that is totally he could not defend that.

[00:38:48]Could that be one of the reasons where he's been found more likable, more usable and easily uh be used to penetrate the rest of Africa because you know even in business the Kenya is the hub of Africa. You plug in well you are able to penetrate the rest of the continent just you know.

[00:39:06]>> Yes. I think that uh and your your quote for next week should be a one saying I understand but it's not lost on me that angel has relaxed her hair shows that by not >> but let's not foreign Yeah.

[00:39:35]As natural as it comes. It's >> so And let's not misinform our audience cuz Liberia was not the first country to gain independence in Africa. It was Ghana in 196.

[00:39:45]It has never been colonized. It was a state. It was a free state.

[00:39:50]>> I think yeah, let's not uh mis advice our audience. And coming to what you're painting a picture of William R. I just highlighted who Macron is uh analyzed by psychologists from across the world. Uh someone with an interstellar ego, someone who takes very little advice, someone who admires planet Jupiter and he thinks that he is per planet Jupiter and all other planets should uh should be dwarfed around him. That's the personality of Macron. And uh the people of the French describe uh the French uh government as lazy and greedy. So even when we're talking about the French, the French people are totally distanced from this conversation and this engagement.

[00:40:35]>> So as we describe the people of Kenya and the government of Kenya, two different people. And when you hear terms like G to G, that is where the scam is. When you hear things like B2B, when you hear PPP, Because when William R looks at Kenya, we do not have minerals. We don't have gold and oil.

[00:41:10]Inform yourself on the country as a country like Ghana and at at at such deposits. And um when William R looks at wealthy people from West African nations, there's a very huge problem in West Africa where the rich and the poor the gap is like 1 kilometer, 100 km.

[00:41:27]It's like Kisumu and Mombasa. There's no middle class as you would have it here in Kenya where former president Mobaki tried as much as possible to level out our society and give birth to the middle class. We that is not present in West African countries. Renting a home in a West African country is difficult. You need to pay a lease of one year upfront.

[00:41:51]You can imagine what that does to the young people of West African nations.

[00:41:54]You have to live with your parents typically until you get married or until you can raise one year worth of rent.

[00:42:00]And that is for a basic accommodation for uh for accommodation that is um that is that is I mean good and quality in a in a in a reasonable area in the city where you can have access to opportunities you have to pay as much as 2 years of upfront rent same rate as what we have here in Kenya and here in Kenya it's easier because you can do monthly payments as you make your money you go. So in a West Africa it is characterized by heavy heavy rich versus poor people in West African nations. And so when William R looks at those nations and the wealthy people around there, he thinks to himself that the best thing I can have is land. So what do I do? I introduce something called PPP, public private partnerships. But the P in private is r. It is now an RPP. And I hope Kenyans are very clear and understand that PPP is no longer the private public. It's r public partnership. Well, it's not the first time that PPPs are being used in Kenya, Angel. I mean, they've been a method for development for a very long time.

[00:43:04]>> For this regime, it is quite different and when you're talking about uh previous regimes that have had partnerships, we have had UK summit, we have had US summit, but this regime has turned the private to R. When we're talking about a nuclear plant in CIA, >> that nuclear plant, the private person that is going to conduct that engagement is Rut. We saw that with Chan and the insurance scheme that you published on the front page of the standard. And you said that the reinsurance company that was insuring uh the the tournament was a private individual who has who had only been registered as a business for 40 days. and they and they transacted millions of shillings from the Kenyan from from the Kenyan government. The R the P the private in PPP stands for root.

[00:43:52]>> Okay, allow me to ask. Both of you at one point agreed on the change of regime.

[00:44:00]>> Yeah, that was a poll. Now we have solved.

[00:44:02]>> Okay.

[00:44:03]>> Okay.

[00:44:05]uh now we are 62 63 weeks away from the Dday also Macron is going home I think next year there about if I'm not wrong >> uh so the and also we have our outgoing President William R and many other countries will be voting just like they've been voting we saw the re-election of the our friend Yor Gutam 7 in the seventh time uh the question is the youth of Africa because Africa is our home. We just reside in Kenya. That's how I put it.

[00:44:41]The youth of Africa need to redefine their own forward summit.

[00:44:49]How do we craft the democracies that you're going to live in and with for the next 20, 30, 40 years?

[00:44:57]Because the freedom came in the 60s.

[00:45:01]Then the democratic space came in the '90s, you know, but here we are. I'm sure we all agree we need economic liberation. That's the revolution we are in as a country, as a continent. It's taking different shapes and forms in different place depending on the country. Namibia has led with trying to deal with their debts. you know, Mozambi, everybody's there trying to deal with their tuna bond and everybody else is coming up and saying, you know, you saw the west part of the continent ejecting the French as we saying uh there's been discourse uh I mean across the continent we have so many conflict areas but the people who continue to suffer the youthful the young and also our resources continue to be plundered and expected. So at what point are we going to converge and have our own youth summit? Not necessarily physically but ideologically such that when we call for change of regime, it is a principle issue policy based and driven conversation. We can a disagree and agree to agree at the same time. But at what point are we going to converge ideologically and say it's not about the party that you belong to. It's not about the crumbs you get from the political formation you're in. But it's about realizing that if we do not secure our future now, we are guaranteeing ourselves to be exploited, extracted for the next 20, 10, 40 years.

[00:46:22]>> I think when you speak like that, you speak to the converted. Looking at the TIFA polls that were released yesterday >> and uh 76% of disapproval going to William R is a disapproval rating that has never been seen before. And um when uh we even talking about um Jokinata as Kasum mentions it that former generation I like to applaud him for what he did to Kenya in 19 the the years gearing towards 1963. I have been to southern African countries and I have seen the scars of upper side and you will see the colorism the the colored the blacks the whites and those scars are still there amongst the African people of southern Africa. When a South African parliament sits, first of all they discuss who is black, who is white and who is colored, before they talk about education, before they talk about healthcare, before they talk about national security, they talk about the colors of their skin. We have the privilege as a Kenyan nation not to have such uh conversations in our parliament. When we debate, we debate on other issues but not about color and race. And um when we talk about countries who visited and uh who came from West African nations and Caswell mentions them, they came out of courtesy of William R. It is like if Caswell today invited me to his graduation or for his wedding if he's getting married soon.

[00:47:50]>> God forbid.

[00:47:53]I will go I'll go I'll go and support him. Not because out of his out of courtesy as a member of my generation I'll go but not because I believe in his ideology. The West African presidents who came here came because they are bossome buddies with William R. If Samir Sulu is seen around William R. you know we the government of Kenya and the government of Tanzania G2G is an aspect of gangster to gangster. And when we see William R surrounded by other countries like France, hold on hold on my brother.

[00:48:22]When we seeing a William R being surrounded by any country like France, >> that one is just another gangster being recruited to his fault. In the interest of time, in the interest of time, >> I conclude and I conclude, >> our generation is convinced that we are at the wrong place and at the wrong time.

[00:48:40]>> All we want is honesty. Let's just be honest. If PPP is r public, let's just let it be clear. That's why that's why that's why we are offering ourselves to leadership. I I desire to be in the next parliament as a woman rep for Kimbu County and I will deliver the representation that is needed and that is lacking in 2026.

[00:49:00]>> All the best.

[00:49:01]>> I think is the youth for ready. We >> we we are ready but part of what I decided to do is I will not be a gentleman any longer about mudslinging.

[00:49:10]>> A person like Angel you would think that she is she's this is she's offering ideological push back. She is not. Angel and her ilk are deeply tribal people and I'm willing to prove this in the sense that >> this ideological awakening that they've had.

[00:49:27]>> You did not see Angel protest against President Uhuru. She was a student leader at the University of Nairobi when the Kanjuka twins were killed. She was a member of Jubilee party. It is not lost on me that Angel is currently trying to sell us Jubilee back which plundered this country for 10 years. The greatest tax debt burden that Kenya the debt exposure was undertaken by Uhuru Kata the presidential candidate that Angel is floating to us was in charge of interior when bodies were showing up in Rayala.

[00:50:00]That's the kind of person that Angel is.

[00:50:01]So this push back that you're seeing you did not see Angel protest when America was here when Obama came here uh for for for the US Africa partnerships. You didn't see that despite the fact that we have all sorts of reservations. She was a student leader at the time. In fact, they were begging for the president to come to their school to the point where president there were boo and buddies.

[00:50:22]Let me finish. You and Babu at the time when Babu was writing the letters. I will not take advantage. You let me. So, what we will do is let me finish. Yes.

[00:50:29]Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish my point because I I was silent when you were doing you're finishing your point. He's trying she's trying to sell us an administration. They're telling us that it's a change of regime.

[00:50:39]Despite the fact that all this police brutality was happening, she was silent.

[00:50:44]This red that she's wearing is the color of blood. Yes, the bloggers were still getting lost in their government. The government, they're trying to sell us to us again. Now she is mad that I am excited that roads are going to certain place in this place. She's mad that suddenly, despite the fact that we offered a premier statesman and remember I have always said that I think Ry Lingo was the leader this country deserved.

[00:51:05]Consistently we were mocked for that.

[00:51:07]Cambridge Analytica was used to prop their government. Cambridge Analytica spread an anti-Raila rhetoric which is one of the biggest breaches we've heard by her government. Talking about France, the Panama papers don't list anyone but her party leader and I need to I need to to remind Angel that she's her ang you could be an angel of of darkness. You could be called angel but she's not she's not being truthful. So she wants to call me Sol or say the former cousin or whatever. She must be an honest person because we will always Yes, you do. But what we're going to do is that we will answer the question at this point because if we're looking at what the youth and our time is actually blown. So it will take maybe 20 seconds >> to get to the point.

[00:51:50]>> Okay, >> we are ready but we have to get past the petty mudslinging and look at what our countries need. We have to ask ourselves ideologically are there opportunities for us to collaborate with international partners. It could be cross border, it could be in Africa, could be outside the continent. But this will not be held on the backdrop and on and on on our personal uh vendetta against other individuals. If we go on that route, we'll still find ourselves in this positions. We must ask ourselves what can we do to put Kenya first, to put Africa first and that's the only way we can move forward. as you learn Angel then a take home question for you because you you accused of trying to sneak back a former regime you accused of wanting to sustain a regime that people do not want might both of you be in the wrong political formations >> I think that uh when we say that uh asking for transparency and uh speaking on behalf or voicing out the issues of my generation is about pettiness I think that is the lowest that we can sink and casual it is very um ashaming and I would like to ask you that uh now that we are asking for transparency and accountability when you are standing and uh and in bed with the blood with the blood of Rex Masai and Albat Jang people who are fighting this for this nation who you betrayed in your very own sense and spirit I want to ask you Kasum are you in your right frame of mind >> but when you're eating corruption money when you're eating corruption money from a drunk president who >> okay so what we're going to do is that we will take control of this conversation. We allow you to do something on the sideline.

[00:53:33]>> Gentlemen and lady, thank you very much.

[00:53:36]What we show leadership be the leaders that you are 2 minutes past 8:00. Obviously, we're not going to be able to finish this in a sensible manner. Uh but uh for us to have conversations about where we're actually going as an African continent is 2 minutes past 8. Cast Maria Asantisana. Good morning.

[00:53:54]>> This is the situation room. The only way to start your