Zack Polanski Should ‘Get Used’ To National Media Scrutiny

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]Zaplansky is going to have to uh learn I think very very quickly what it's like to be a national leader in the spotlight.

[00:00:08]>> But this time we discuss the big stories of the morning in the company of two calmheaded, rational and logical thinkers who can shine some light on the issues and stories of the day. And so this morning on Fridays we speak to Baroness Morgan. That's Nikki Morgan, former Conservative education secretary.

[00:00:24]Good morning Nikki.

[00:00:25]>> Good morning. C got us a high bar that you've set. Yeah, I tried this morning.

[00:00:29]And Lord McConnell, that's Jack McConnell, formerly Labour First Minister of Scotland. Hello, Jack.

[00:00:35]>> Hello there. I thought you were going to say, but this morning we'll have Jack and Nikki.

[00:00:39]>> Never, never, never. Build them up.

[00:00:40]That's what I say.

[00:00:41]>> It's going to be a nice considered half hour for sure. Here are some of the stories we've covered so far this morning on Times Radio. The mayor of Greater Manchester, as you know, Andy Burnham is going to run in a bi-election. Well, he's hoping to run that would try to bring him back to Westminster, paving the way for him to challenge Zakir Sama to a leadership race. We spoke to the housing secretary Steve Reed and he had this message for his colleagues.

[00:01:05]>> But I would just advise colleagues right now, take a breath, have a think about what happened to the tries when they did this. It remains the fact that there is no challenger. No one has gathered 81 nominations to mount a challenge against the prime minister. He remains our prime minister. My job, his job, everyone else's job is to get on and deliver the change we were sent here to deliver.

[00:01:27]>> Well, David Collins, who's the northern editor of the Sunday Times, knows Andy Burnham and gave us an insight into why he is so popular in his region. The bosses were in absolute shambles. I can't actually describe how bad it was.

[00:01:41]He sorted all that. So, he's been popular in Greater Manchester and I think the Labour looking to to to basically replicate that. They think he's a winner, an election winner, and this this will be the battle of his life.

[00:01:56]>> Well, it's not just trouble at the top of the Labour party. Both Nigel Farage and Zack Palansky have faced controversy this week. Nigel Farage over exactly why he received that 5 million pound donation, personal donation before he decided to run as an MP. The Green Party leader has now admitted he didn't vote in last week's local elections despite previously the party claiming he had voted in Hackne by post. Stefan Boscher, a politics newsletter editor for the Times, told us this is starting to become a bit of a habit for the leader of the Green Party.

[00:02:27]>> Whether it's his CV, whether it is uh for instance the status of where he lives now. You have this, you know, strange white lie about, you know, saying that he post voted, then he never voted at all. It's just a sort of pattern of behavior now that I think is quite odd. I do think that there is momentum building against this guy and I think that unless he can get his story right a few other things, he could be uh seen as a bit of a chance though, which he probably is.

[00:02:50]>> Well, this message comes in from Dennis.

[00:02:51]Zack Palansky doesn't pay his council tax and then doesn't cast his vote clearly since breaking into full-time politics. He's found it difficult to keep a breast of things suggests Dennis.

[00:03:02]And so, lots to discuss this morning with Nikki and Jack. Have people stopped listening to reform and the Greens amid these kind of, you know, controversies, circuses that surround their leaders?

[00:03:11]And as one in six people on the Sunday Times rich list two years ago don't appear in 2026's list, and a third no longer live in the UK, is there a question about the billionaire exodus that needs to be addressed? But let us start with the Labor Party psycho drama and whether Andy Burnham is the answer to Labour's wos, I suppose. Um, Jack, I want to come to you first on this because we've heard throughout the course of the morning that Andy Burnham is something of a a rare commodity in in in Labor politics particularly right now in so far as he is comparatively popular certainly in the northwest of England, but actually on the whole across the country as well. He's got this track record as mayor of Greater Manchester when it comes to delivery. He has absolutely majored on the idea of standing up for Greater Manchester and not being part of the beast of Whiteall, you know, the bad guys in Whiteall. Now he wants to become a part of that machine. Is is he the answer for the Labor Party?

[00:04:14]Well, that that in many ways that remains to be seen, but I I I do think it's quite interesting that he has chosen a difficult route rather than uh an easier route into uh uh the the possibility of a leadership campaign. Uh, you know, I think if he had, as was rumored this time last week, if he had been uh talking to a member of parliament perhaps in Liverpool with a very big Labor majority um and trying to do the safe seat route in back in through a bi-election, then people might have uh found that a little bit suspicious. Um but I think to go and stand in his home constituency of of Merfield um to do so in a constituency where the reform vote was double the Labor vote this time last week um I think shows a little bit of guts uh and I suspect that will have surprised people a little bit and uh it's a very sort of high-risisk highreward scenario for him if he loses the bi-election. Well, he's had his go and uh and he's no longer a contender.

[00:05:23]If he wins the bi-election, then I think that is a uh it's it's not only an indication of a challenge to come, but it's also a remarkable achievement. And the next step will be to see whether he can lay out a program, as I've been saying now for months. You know, if there is a contender, we want to see what they've got to say. We want to know if they're fit to be prime minister. We want to know if they can make the right judgments, if they can build a big tent rather than a small one. Um, and I think this is the challenge now for Andy can use this bi-election to lay that out.

[00:05:56]And he might well surprise many of us.

[00:05:59]>> Yeah, Nikki, one of the other considerations in this is is the is how the process is slash isn't working. I suppose we were making the point to Steve Reid this morning that coming on and kind of saying the same thing in defense of Kier Storm, as you were saying days ago, doesn't quite wash when a health secretary's now resigned.

[00:06:14]Countless ministers have resigned. 100 MPs have expressed their dissatisfaction. The situation has changed dramatically in so far as the context, but the out there is no outcome, I suppose, is the way to put it.

[00:06:25]>> Yeah, I think that's right. I think we're sort of feels like we're in a in a sort of a period of of some uh paralysis, I suppose. Um, I mean, you know, a couple things. I think the the the challenge uh with uh with Andy Bham's the the the Labour party's need apparently to have Andy Burnham as part of the contest um is that it now slows obviously everything down. Uh I think um the Times is saying today that the uh the likeliest date for the bi-election is June the 18th. Well, you know, that's that's over a month away. Um and there's an awful lot of things that uh government needs to get on with. Um, and so I think that it does feel like, you know, everything's grinding to a to a bit of a halt. I thought it was fascinating. I thought Steve Reed this morning sounded um slightly stunned actually by by everything. I think you're right, Callum, which is that um holding to the line that um there isn't it is I mean technically true to say there isn't obviously a challenge has been triggered but but we all know that Karma's leadership is um well more than ter you know absolutely under threat.

[00:07:31]He's going to be challenged clearly uh and therefore there's going to be a leadership contest. Um and meanwhile, you know, for the for the country, leave aside all the thing about testing out people's policies and programs, everything else for the country. Uh there is a government that is now not firing on all cylinders and doesn't look like it's going to be so for for weeks, at least weeks. And that's not good news.

[00:07:54]>> Nikki, is it completely unreoverable for the prime minister?

[00:07:59]Well, I mean, the irony of all this, as I understand it, and Jack will probably know the rules far better than me, is that ultimately Kiss Armor could stand himself. Um, you know, he could do a sort of John Major versus John Redwood.

[00:08:11]You know, um, that's it. You want to have a contest. I'm putting myself up as a candidate. I think I'm right saying a hundred of his MPs have signed a letter this week backing the prime minister's uh, leadership. So it's just an outside chance I suppose that um you know he he he does stand he does win and we carry on um in in the current position. He could say well I face down my my leaders. So um it's never irreoverable but it does feel uh like um uh the the parliamentary Labor party has made up its mind. It does want to have a a contest. Um and I think all these all these people hoping there's a way out with dignity and that he'll make his mind up. I don't think the prime minister is ever going to decide to go of his own valition. Uh and therefore that does mean whether it's Wes Streeting or Andrew Raina or or Andy Bern someone else is going to have to do the deed for for them.

[00:09:01]Jack, part of the other, excuse me, another part of the conversation is that Andy Burnham, assuming he gets through the NEC and all of that and becomes the and the local selection and becomes the candidate in this bi-election is that he is going to become the protest vote against the Labor party and against or excuse me against the Labor government.

[00:09:20]And I mean it's just one of the quirks of this bi-election >> protest vote against the prime the current exactly which is bizarre >> and and one of the other I mean this was a wider quirk is that in in the current state of politics it might actually work which is even more uh maybe even more bizarre. Um yeah I think there are a couple of things here. I think first of all uh you know I had hoped last weekend that the PM would would would try and build build a tent a little bit bigger and uh you know I think it would have been to me it would have been made more sense last weekend um rather than either looking backwards uh to figures from the past or just simply making a speech on Monday to to reach out to those that might become challenggers, those that were um that that had had dropped out of the team over the last year or whatever, get them in, have a chat, try and try and build the team back up again. Uh, show a bit of strength of character on that. And um, and and then we get the slight chaos of of the semi challenge from uh, from from Wes Streeting. I suspect that didn't happen because people got the impression that actually although there might be concerns about the prime minister that folk might stick with him rather than jump over to to wedge streeting and therefore the challenge didn't happen. I do think there's an opportunity here just to to use the fact that it is a bi-election to reach out a bit and if I was the PM this weekend I would actually meet with Andy Burnham welcome him as candidate let let him know that he's going to be in the team if the uh if he if he succeeds reach out a bit and and build it back up again and you know that might that might just save his premiership and if it doesn't then at least he's tried and uh um in the meantime I think Andy should do the same thing. I think he should reach out a bit. You know, he's he's going to be the outsider, but he needs to needs to also become a bit of an insider, too.

[00:11:21]>> And I I think everybody would welcome him reaching out and and showing that he can be a team player as well. So, these are the challenges that people face.

[00:11:29]I've been in that situation.

[00:11:30]>> Yeah.

[00:11:31]>> I challenged leadership back in 2000.

[00:11:34]There's a lot of anger against me for doing so. Um but I I I did I had something to say and I said it. uh and then a year later um became first minister. I I used the year between the two the two leadership elections to make you know uh build up relationships with people who hadn't supported me first time round. And uh I think both Andy and the PM need to think in those terms.

[00:11:57]Don't get into your bunker. Don't get into your your immediate group of supporters. Get out there and build build other relationships and show you're big enough for the job. I mean, Andy Bon could only have a matter of months to do that if he was sort of, you know, headed leading the party and the country in September. Nikki, there is huge frustration and it's come through on the WhatsApps that we've received this morning that this is a spectacular own goal from the Labor government.

[00:12:22]Steve was saying to us, we don't want to descend into the chaos of of the Tories, but but here we are. And there's also some frustration that the prime minister because he likes process and he is stubborn has shown a sort of resilience and determined doggginess over the last week that we could have done with seeing over the last 22 months.

[00:12:43]>> Yes, that's that's very true and I'm not surprised people are uh frustrated. Um, I mean, I think, um, this looks it looks and I've got, you know, friends from from around the world messaging me saying, "What on earth is going on in in UK politics?" And, you know, this is not what the UK wants to be uh wants to be known for. Um, and and also, you know, as we know, it's a very volatile world.

[00:13:04]I mean, we're not going to talk about, I don't think, about US and and China today, you know, that the two presidents meeting, but I mean, that's been hugely important. And so actually having a a government and a prime minister that is focused on on those sorts of of issues.

[00:13:17]What's going on in the in the world? How do I support businesses to be um uh the economy to be ready uh for what's uh what's going on? You know, that's what you want ministers to be and prime ministers be be focused on. Um so uh yeah, it it does it does feel like an own goal. Having said that, I mean, as we've discussed on this program before, the reason we're in this situation, um, and I heard you asking, you know, Luke Trill earlier on about why is the prime minister so unpopular. I mean, I think we shouldn't forget that again, this is the prime minister's own judgment, uh, in many cases that has brought uh, his government, himself, the Labour party to this point. Um, and you know, doggginess and and determination are not the same things as having, you know, good good judgment. So I I'm not sure we are.

[00:14:03]Well, we'll see, won't we? We'll have to see um whether we see the best of of Karma when his bats against the wall.

[00:14:07]You know, I like Jack's optimism, but I mean I I that just doesn't strike me.

[00:14:11]Karma does not strike me as a kind of, you know, big tent, you know, embrace every kind of guy. if he can only give West Streeting about 18 minutes um you know and we don't know how long Wes Streeting was in the waiting room for at number 10 on Wednesday morning then it doesn't strike me as the kind of person who is trying to persuade colleagues that actually a big tent approach um you know let's part part of the the same team is is possible that is not his modus operandi >> Jack and Nikki excuse me do stay with us lots more to discuss including Zack Pollinsky and Nigel Farage and their various missteps and walls a 5 million ion pound gift and forgetting to vote seem like sort of some quite basic things to get right. But why are some politicians bulletproof to these unsavory headlines? This is Times Radio Breakfast with Rosie Wright and Callum McDonald in association with Nationwide.

[00:14:59]A good way to bank.

[00:15:00]>> Still with us are our pair of peers Nikki Morgan, the former Conservative education secretary, and Jack McDonald, former Labour First Minister of Scotland. Let's move on from Labor for a moment or two. Reform and the Greens have got their own challenges to tackle.

[00:15:13]Nigel Farage is facing further scrutiny over his5 million pound gift from the Thailand based billionaire Christopher Harborn. And the Greens leader Zach Palansky has admitted he didn't vote in last week's local elections despite previous claims he had voted in Hackne by post. This followed by questions over his living and council tax arrangements.

[00:15:32]Also whether he had embellished his CV.

[00:15:35]Nikki that the there's so sort of a soap opera feeling to politics right now. But if we just zoom into the Green Party for a moment or two, is this becoming a pattern with the Green Party leader that the claims that he makes when they are scrutinized sometimes falling apart?

[00:15:55]>> Well, it does appear that way. Um, doesn't it? I mean, I think on both counts um I think they need now to get used uh to uh national media scrutiny, which um you know, anybody who's been in the national media spotlight knows it's pretty unforgiving. Um and if you have done something that you uh that you shouldn't have done or or failed to do something then um probably somebody will find that uh that out. Um, and so I think that um I'm afraid Zach Palansk's um uh issue with with not voting speak is is a classic case of um a you know somebody in the communications the spokesman whatever saying as you know giving the the the wrong answer initially and then more facts coming to light or the individual actually you know confessing that um that they haven't voted or or perhaps they should have paid a bit more attention to the council tax rules in the first case and having to to row back. So, you know, um Zaplansky is going to have to uh learn, I think, very very quickly what it's like to be a national leader in the spotlight. Um now, Nigel Farage has been in the spotlight for for, you know, a long time already. So, there are really no excuses. Um and obviously, it's absolutely right that that's being investigated. The rules are really clear. you know when I remember 2010 when you're first elected you know there is absolutely an obligation to declare not just sort of looking forward what you might earn uh outside or what you might have been given but also retrospectively uh in the last 12 months before you were uh elected and I'm afraid um there's now going to be a lot more digging about exactly what happened to that 5 million pounds and we've already seen I think the times reporting about you know uh a big chunk of it being used to uh to to buy uh property Um but I think the interesting question is is what is kind of what what you know Callum said just before the break which is actually when do normal rules apply to these two. Um and could it be that actually you know without wishing to to linger longer on the the Labour leadership uh that actually it's the burn and bi-election where um you know those the two other parties reform and Greens find that actually the national media scrutiny really counts uh against them. But at the moment it would appear that they um certainly reform don't appear to have been subject to the same rules that would have absolutely taken the the you know sort of um ground out from underneath if the same issues had happened to Karm or Chem Bull.

[00:18:19]>> Yeah Jack I wonder if if these two individuals are sort of protected a little bit because they have not been Mr. process Mr. integrity like um Kia Star. I mean Nigel Farage said uh when Harry Cole um the editor at large at the Sun newspaper who did this interview with Nigel Farage talking about the donation um Nigel Farage answered uh Harry by saying nobody cares nobody cares about how much uh money I have and the the voters in Clton certainly don't care. He said no one cares. Do reform and green voters care about these types of questions? Whether Zach Palansky, whether the party didn't tell the truth about whether he voted or not in the election or how much money Nigel Farage has or how he got the money.

[00:19:02]>> Well, I think I think the two cases are probably slightly different. Uh I think uh with Zack Palanski, uh I think one of the things that's going to be interesting is to see the medium-term reaction inside the Green Party. Um, now there quite a lot of crazy people in the Green Party, but there's an awful lot of decent, principled people as well, and they must be increasingly concerned that the party has stopped talking about the environment, that they have a leader who lies every week about something new, uh, who just seems to be somebody who thinks he can stand up on a stage and be a cheeky chappie and get away with it. Um, and he's finding very quickly that he can't.

[00:19:36]>> I mean, they are finding though very quickly that Zach Palansky's proving pretty popular. Yeah, and it has been very popular. But it'll be interesting to see whether in the Green Party some of those with political principles start to wonder whether this is the right thing for the party. That that will be interesting to see.

[00:19:51]>> Yeah, that's the case Ed Davy's making.

[00:19:54]>> Yeah, I think I think I think on on Faraj it's a very different case. He's been getting away with this stuff for years. Um, the one thing that might slightly change with him is as he gets closer to maybe looking like he could be in government, >> I think the link between these sort of dodgy donations that he receives and um government policy, like for example, his his desire to uh to help those who own cryptocurrency.

[00:20:20]um that could become a bit of an issue in terms of linking the donations to actual government uh decisions. But people need to learn the lesson from Scotland.

[00:20:30]>> There have been more scandals about the SNP, about sex scandals, about uh financial scandals, about delivery scandals, whether it's boats on the West Coast or a whole number of other areas over the last four or five years. And right across Scotland, people voted for them last week because they identify with them. Um, you know, Carol will know what I mean when I say this. The two constituencies on the west coast of Scotland most affected by the scandal over the ferry crisis, lifeline ferry crisis over the last few years, both reelected an SNP MSP last week despite the fact that they've had that terrible terrible all the terrible implications of of that scandal over recent years. So when there's an identity connection between the people in a party or on or an individual politician, it's very very hard to break and the other parties need to recognize the scale of that challenge, not just assume that the odd scandal is going to bring somebody down.

[00:21:27]>> Yeah.

[00:21:27]>> Really interesting. Uh well, Farage's 5 million pound prey did not get him onto the Sunday Times rich list for 2026, which >> I hate the word prey, I have to say.

[00:21:36]Yeah.

[00:21:36]>> Why? I don't really like I know my name ends in an iie but shortened words that end with an iie I really and I'm a rosman tourist this is ridiculous I appreciate but picture shortened >> picky >> biscuit shortened particularly chocolate biscuit shortened >> thank you >> but present as well anyway this is total diversion I I struggle with these shortened words >> I heard somebody the other day refer to David Atenburgh as a nashy trench That's not That's also the other thing now, Callum, you do refer to this program sometimes is instead of breakfast as >> as brekie.

[00:22:15]>> Yeah.

[00:22:15]>> Yeah.

[00:22:16]>> And it just I just went a tiny bit. I'm sure I need to get over that, but let's go back onto the >> presel Farage's 5 million pound prey. Uh which didn't get him on the Sunday Times Rich List 2026. Uh the Beckhams and the Gallagher brothers are there for the first time and of course there are lots of business people on there too. There's also a set that are known as 40 under 40 rich and really quite young entrepreneurs. Of them actually 15 of them didn't go to university which I thought actually Nikki is quite an interesting thing to zoom in on here. Um and and I just wonder what you make of that. I guess uni has never necessarily been the absolute predictor of earning a fortune which is obviously what this rich list is about. I suppose though there is a kind of what are we using as metric of success and why is it interesting that these people didn't go to uni and yet here they are making up an absolute packet.

[00:23:08]>> Well, it's it's absolutely fascinating and the list is is is fascinating and um I mean I know we have a sort of a slightly odd relationship with um uh success in this country. Um on the one hand uh we um we like it we like a tale of of sort of rags to riches. On the other hand, the minute somebody does become successful and particularly rich, I mean, first of all, you're not supposed to talk about money uh in polite company and secondly, of course, we then like to see what we can do to sort of, you know, throw stones at them.

[00:23:34]But but I think it's really interesting that um I think the 40 under 40 in particular, um it's you you do want people who are successful and actually it it is a sort of motivating factor for for some people that actually and you know they can aspire uh to to that kind of success and I think it's it is interesting. I think the there there I mean there's we haven't got time for it now but there is a wider question about universities whether that is the way in order to uh to be successful whether people think that's necessary I mean different story but in the times today there's the merger of King's College London and Cranfield universities you know I think the whole higher education sector has got lots of uh lots of potential but lots of questions to answer but I think on on this list really and I think the the the the breadth of of the way people have made their and some of the, you know, the new entrance, who's up, who's down. Um, it is undoubtedly, uh, fascinating.

[00:24:27]>> Yeah. And Jack, what what do you think about this? I mean, the other part of this is, of course, economic contribution, billionaires leaving the country, more billionaires being sort of Britishborn as well is another part of the story here.

[00:24:40]>> Yeah. I mean I think there's a there there are issues about getting the right balance there between uh holding on to people in this country or getting people to invest in this country and at the same time you know if people wanted want to avoid tax and go and live somewhere else it's sometimes hard to uh it's sometimes hard to stop them. I think it is an interesting point about the kind of people who become you have to become a billionaire you need a lot of drive and determination but you also need need a fair bit of luck as well to be in the moment. And two people that always stood out for me in this in this sort of world were um Richard Branson who put a lot of uh his success and his drive and creativity down to the fact that he was dyslexic. Um and he didn't have a great time at school. He didn't go on to higher education as far as I'm aware. Um and he immediately went straight into business and that was where he found his his world. Sir Tom Hunter in Scotland um you know was basically working out of the back of his dad's van selling trainers when he realized that this could become a major major national uh um retail chain and and and off he went and uh again somebody who you know didn't use his education to get to that level. It was all about personality and drive and creativity getting a good team round about him um to do to to help him in that in that success. So I think um sometimes it is completely unrelated to education. It's all about personality, drive, and a little bit of luck. Uh and uh um you know, in in many ways, good luck to them. I hope they I hope I hope hope they give some of the wealth back to the uh >> back to the causes that we all cherish.

[00:26:15]>> Yeah, >> indeed. Um Jack and Nikki, thank you both very much. Indeed. Great to speak to you.

[00:26:20]>> Have a good weekend.

[00:26:21]>> Thanks. You too.

[00:26:22]>> Such a Thank you, Jack. Well, Jack, I can sort of put something back to you.

[00:26:26]Jonathan has text in to say, "Has Jack been kicked out of the house this morning?" Because I suspect then that Jonathan has been watching on YouTube.

[00:26:35]We've sort of soft launched on YouTube.

[00:26:36]So, Jack has been talking to us this morning from the car, which if you've spotted on YouTube, you would have noticed.

[00:26:40]>> He's not driving.

[00:26:41]>> No, he's not driving. Um, >> no, I'm in a car park. I'm in a car park in Edinburgh. I had a choice between I've got a chair meeting in Edinburgh at 10:00 and I had a choice of parking in Edinburgh city center and paying an absolute fortune for it. uh or or parking in the car park on the way in and doing doing the call from there. So, I'm in the I'm just having a very nice coffee in the car park now to go and try and find a parking space in Edinburgh.

[00:27:05]Oh, boy. Good idea.

[00:27:07]>> Yeah.

[00:27:07]>> So, you can if you search for us, you can find our YouTube link or I've posted a link to it on Instagram as well. So, you can search it there. Um have a look.

[00:27:14]You can see us as well as hear us.

[00:27:16]>> Come and see how tired I look and how in need of a haircut I am. Uh and how lovely Rosie looks.

[00:27:21]>> That's very kind. Have you have you seen all this message?

[00:27:24]>> Unfortunately, I've I've opened the floodgates of um lovely messages with shortened words ending in IIE. Some of them I'm not even prepared to read out loud.

[00:27:34]>> I'll read all of them in a minute. Don't worry about that.