Why Your Brain Lies To You

[00:00:00]Hello everyone, welcome to the figuring out podcast. This is the podcast where two friends, two doctors from two different worlds, come together to answer life's big questions. My name is Dr. Alex George, I'm a former A&E doctor, and I used to host the podcast The Stompcast, and I'm joined by >> I'm Dr. Catherine Bates. I'm a research scientist uh studying mental health at King's College London.

[00:00:21]>> In this episode, we're going to be asking a very important question, which I'm really excited for us to delve into.

[00:00:28]Is déjà vu real? What is déjà vu? It's an experience so many of us have. It is freaky as hell. I often feel like really weird when it kind of happens, like often kind of scares me. I'm like, has this happened before? Is this a glitch in the matrix? What is going on? So, we're going to delve into part one into that question. Part two, we're going to answer a listener dilemma relating to people feeling that déjà vu means something bad's going to happen. So, I guess some sense of distress from the back of it. And of course, we're going to do our quick-fire questions. It's exciting.

[00:01:00]>> Yeah, ready to go.

[00:01:01]>> But, before we do get into it, we're still getting to know you on the podcast. I've been working with you for us month or so, but I think it's really great for people to hear some of the work you're doing because it's really fascinating, and you're clearly a very smart egg. So, perhaps you could share some of what you've been researching and doing, uh particularly in your PhD, I guess.

[00:01:19]>> Yeah, definitely. So, I have a PhD in psychology and neuroscience, and I've always focused on development. So, how do we develop in the world um through childhood, adolescence, and through to adulthood.

[00:01:33]Um always been interested by like the developing brain, basically. Um so, during my PhD, this was a little bit more cognitive neurosciency. So, that's where we like study what's going on in the brain underneath like our behaviors and how we think and how we feel. Like, can we tie those things together?

[00:01:53]And I studied mental imagery. So, trying to understand how children visualize information, how we picture things in our minds, and um how that relates to learning in maths as well.

[00:02:05]And then also whether it differs between children with and without ADHD. So, there's this idea that attention, um mental imagery, and like our memory are kind of overlapping in some way. So, we were trying to test what that looks like um to try and develop tools for the classroom.

[00:02:22]Then after the PhD, I kind of pivoted into more uh of a mental health focus.

[00:02:27]So, I was really interested in doing something a bit more applied. So, I kind of stepped out of like how is um how are visual pictures represented in this part of the brain, and moved more towards how does our experience of the world affect how we develop. So, I mostly study now how what happens when this goes wrong.

[00:02:48]So, this is like we look at bullying, loneliness, social exclusion, and we also focus on adolescents. So, adolescents tend to be kind of sidelined a little bit, or we expect them to behave like little adults, but actually there's so much development going on. And they also experience like their own set of adverse experiences. Like bullying is really common, for example. So, we're testing how this shapes brain development, mental health, and the way that we behave.

[00:03:16]>> Some of the work you were doing was on how how people basically how parents can help children to develop skills that that benefit the learning of things like maths and so on. It's kind of like you um reading to a child is one of the best ways to improve their reading age as they grow up, but also their brain development. What did you find out when it came to maths and stuff?

[00:03:38]>> Yeah, so the the work in the the group that I was a part of. So, this is when I was doing my PhD is led by Professor Emily Farran, who's based at University of Surrey. We focused on basically how spatial skills and spatial reasoning, so how we move about in the world, how we're able to like manipulate information in mind, um our bodies in space, how that relates to maths, because there's evidence and they have found that there's evidence that shows training spatial skills and spatial reasoning through development um can predict uh better maths ability later on.

[00:04:15]>> So, Rishi would be a big fan of this.

[00:04:16]Rishi Sunak, he loves his maths, doesn't he? So.

[00:04:18]>> Yeah, maybe it's one step back there, because it's like uh there's like a transfer to maths, so you can maybe have develop these kind of skills where you can have your toddler be free to explore. Like let them just run around, pick things up, like you can use space using spatial language is really good, so like I'm underneath the table, I'm on top of this. Um and I worked with um Emily Farran to like produce a spatial reasoning toolkit, so I just helped develop it. Um and this is available to teachers and parents for free, and it's basically each stage of development, the evidence of what the best like spatial skills are to focus on.

[00:04:59]>> Fascinating.

[00:04:59]>> Fascinating, so interesting.

[00:05:02]>> Let's dive into this week's question. As I said, I I am really interested in it, and when we were developing, when you obviously producing the episode, we're talking as a team, and everyone's so excited about it, because so many people experience déjà vu, and it is a weird uh experience. So, should we start first maybe defining like what are what are the kinds of déjà vu that people might experience?

[00:05:25]>> Yeah, so researching this, there's actually different types of déjà vu. I don't really considered one of them at the time. So, these are coined by French philosopher Emile Boirac.

[00:05:35]>> Say name.

[00:05:36]>> Sorry, French people, if I've mispronounced that. Um and there are a few different types, so there's déjà entendu, which is translated as already heard, so feeling like you've definitely heard something before. So, something in a conversation or music. Um we also have déjà rêvé, which is already dreamed. So, experiencing something in real life that you think you've dreamt before.

[00:05:58]>> I definitely I definitely experience that quite a lot. So, I I'll have it where I'll be doing something with someone or talking or having conversation. Or maybe I'll be in a setting like a cafe say with my mom, and I'm like, "Wow, I I've dreamt this and now I'm living it." It's like a feeling that I am living something I've already had a dream about. And then the other one I tend to have as well is like something will happen and I think that I'm reliving something that has already happened, which feels slightly different. Both are unsettling, but different.

[00:06:27]>> Yeah, different types of déjà rêvé. It's I can I can see why it's unsettling cuz it kind of distorts your reality. It makes you feel a bit like, "Well, which one is real? Which one came first? And did I make this happen by dreaming it?"

[00:06:42]>> It's like, "Is it Yeah, is it like a glitch in the matrix? Or am I like predicting the future? Have I predicted the future and then lived it?" And I guess my worry is is like, "Does this mean that something's going to go wrong?" And I guess this we're going to get into this into into part two. So, so let's let's dig into like So, there's different types of déjà rêvé.

[00:07:00]What is going What do we know about the brain in terms of what's going on?

[00:07:04]>> So, there's lots of different theories.

[00:07:06]So, like locking. Um >> Hyperfocus on.

[00:07:10]>> Yeah, exactly. So, um this is one of those examples where we've been studying it for a really long time and this happens all the time in neuroscience and we still have so much to learn and we haven't fully decided what there's evidence for yet. So, there are some prevailing theories. So, we'll start with the spatial resemblance hypothesis. This is Professor Anne Cleary who's done a lot of work in déjà rêvé and she has some really good TED Talks as well on this topic that I would recommend. And this is basically the idea that it's triggered by actually seeing something familiar in your environment and then not being able to pin like where you've seen it before. And she just did a set of like really neat experiments that showed that participants were more likely to report deja vu when they were looking at a similar scene to what they'd been shown before.

[00:08:02]So really nice like we love this kind of science like a clean experiment that just shows what you expect. So The example that she kind of gives is if you go to the Louvre and feel deja vu it might be because 10 years ago you watched The Matrix. So you've seen the Louvre in The Matrix.

[00:08:19]>> Right, I see.

[00:08:20]>> And then but you're not able to recollect like why you find it familiar.

[00:08:25]>> So you you you have seen it but you've not connected the dots kind of.

[00:08:28]>> Yeah, pretty much. Another kind of theory is the conflict account which is this conflict between familiarity versus recollection. But it's not like contradicting the other one. This theory does kind of brings together the ideas that underpin a lot of the other hypotheses. So essentially it's a divergence between recollection so being able to remember something consciously and familiarity.

[00:08:55]And the reason why it diverges is because familiarity is faster. So you that a process happens quicker in the brain. You find something familiar quicker than you consciously recollect.

[00:09:07]>> Okay.

[00:09:08]>> Your recollection basically either fails or it doesn't. So there's this idea of like the butcher on the bus from like a paper in the 70s that's like you go on the bus and you see someone you recognize and you can't think where from. And you might get it and be like oh that's the butcher.

[00:09:25]>> Yeah.

[00:09:26]>> But you might not. So deja vu is essentially defined as like when there's this erroneous familiarity or recollection. So something >> not attaching it to something that then makes sense. Like Yeah, the person Oh, butcher on the Oh, that's John. Yeah, he works in the butchers down the road. But, you've otherwise seen some someone and be like I've seen them before, but you don't know where. So, that feels uneasy, perhaps.

[00:09:50]>> Yeah, exactly. So, that that combination of feeling familiarity and struggling to recollect is what makes you feel really unsettled cuz it's like quite strong feeling.

[00:10:01]Um and then if we go back even further, now let's go back to 1959.

[00:10:07]Where [laughter] um during brain surgery, Wilder Penfield, who is this neurosurgeon that actually tested like lots of different things, discovered that déjà vu could be artificially triggered by stimulating uh the temporal lobe. So, that's like on the side. Um and you could basically switch on déjà vu using stimulation. And this was later supported by um people that have epilepsy in the temporal lobe.

[00:10:34]They are way more likely to experience déjà vu.

[00:10:36]>> That's kind of what I'd understood and that's what I kind of heard is that it's kind of like mini epileptic like it's like electrical activity that is kind of causing this experience like in a in a kind of almost mini seizure kind of way.

[00:10:49]Because like I cuz some type of people that describe certain for kinds of epilepsy, they are experiencing um an awareness of like things that perhaps either aren't there or there's like an an awareness or a feeling that something else is going on. I don't know how to explain that, but there's clearly like misfiring there.

[00:11:05]>> Yeah, that does happen. And then this kind of more general idea of how often it happens is this like more conceptual idea of like familiarity comes first and then recollecting is slower.

[00:11:16]>> do we think actually is the most likely explanation? Or do we think there's perhaps a multiple causes of it?

[00:11:20]>> Multiple mechanisms, definitely.

[00:11:22]>> Really?

[00:11:22]>> And that And that always that is always the case in the brain. It's very difficult to pin down like one mechanism. And that's because everybody's brain is different. And everybody's um and the way that like our connectivity we always find individual differences. Someone in our lab is literally studying like individual differences in the in the structural development of the brain like doing her PhD on that. So it's extensive and that's why there's all there's competing theories because you you can't or there's lots of theories cuz you can't really pin it down to one.

[00:11:54]>> Cuz people some people really do feel like this is actually me predicting the future and like I I I guess because sometimes can be quite religious beliefs or it's kind of spiritual beliefs coming into it and you can see why that happens cuz it does feel out of world I would say it feels like out of worldly in a sense particularly particularly when you have like ones that I'd say when I've had a bad dream and and then something feels like it's going to be playing a similar route. I mean I have nightmares all the time um I lots of nightmares which we were talking about before and actually I looked this up there's been research show that ADHD people with ADHD have a lot more kind of vivid dreams and nightmares because of the way the brain processes information ADHD but also the inability to kind of switch off in that sense. It's it's quite interesting but yeah it could be really unsettling when you're like oh I'm living something from my dreams.

[00:12:47]>> Yeah. It's kind of odd sensation to have.

[00:12:48]>> Definitely. And also because our recollection so everything we experience is a construction of reality. So we're not just passively receiving let's say visual information for example into our brain and processing it. Our brain is constructing reality and there's a lot of like predicting going on as well. So even sometimes if we feel like we have dreamt it you might have actually just thought about it a few days before. It might not actually have come from a dream.

[00:13:18]>> That's so interesting.

[00:13:19]>> And also that even like the day after a dream again you might not have dreamt it in that way. It might come from somewhere else.

[00:13:27]>> It's kind of like as well, I guess, with things like um autism. Um it's talked about being like, you know, you are receiving data like a certain other brain like another neurotype would be as for example a neurotypical brain, but it's how that um data is processed and projected and and then how that information is passed through up different parts of the brain and therefore I guess how it's communicated and received in the brain is where I guess where things go wrong, but that's where the diff That's where the difference is, isn't it? Because you are perceiving perhaps even like we'll sit in the same room, we're perceiving the same sensory inputs and yet we're having very different experience from that. People describe like a fan being blown on their skin and to one person it's like nice and soothing, another person says it's horrible and it's uncomfortable. Like a jumper might be very comfortable one person, but to another person it's like, "Oh, it's horrible and scratchy."

[00:14:20]>> It's fascinating, isn't it? Like you are like there is something goes on here that is actually creating your interpretation of experience.

[00:14:26]>> Exactly. And if you think about it in terms of like the things that are undergoing underpinning function is like neuro encoding, like the structure of your brain and the connectivity between different regions.

[00:14:41]These can be different for everyone. If you think like sit from me looking at this is like a thousand processes going on in my brain.

[00:14:47]>> So then every single one of those can be different for different people and then you also have subcategories like autistic people or people like honestly, it it's happening.

[00:14:58]>> brain like honestly, I got out of a cab the other day, we were in Santorini and um you know, there's a Greek gentleman that had driven us back to the hotel. We got out of the cab and I had this really weird thing cuz we we were we were talking and we were speaking and I was saying um to well, my fiance then, I was saying, "It's so strange how we speak at similar volumes and like people hear you and they receive the the volume and the yeah, the the the voice that you're speaking that ears hear that the brain then processes that, and then you kick it back out at a similar volume. You kind of mirror that. It's so many things that go on. You know, that person is in born and brought up in in Santorini in Greece, and I'm brought up in the UK. It just blows my mind that like humans are so different, yet so similar.

[00:15:49]We have to be similar enough to be able to communicate, right? To be able to understand, to hear each other, to >> 100% >> It just blows my mind.

[00:15:56]>> And to like find attachments attachments with each other because we like social beings, and we need to be able to relate to one another. We need to share experiences in order to like literally survive, which is wild.

[00:16:08]Should we >> let's go back to déjà vu. I know this is the >> [laughter] >> this is the whole point of this podcast.

[00:16:12]We're going off on a >> a and I've got a couple of like weird experiences that I'm I'm saving >> Have you >> part.

[00:16:20]>> Have you okay. But do you do you want to hear there's a really interesting Should I talk quickly about this link with anxiety?

[00:16:25]>> Yeah, let's talk about that now.

[00:16:26]>> cuz I think this is really interesting.

[00:16:27]I know you got a case study you want to share, but I think this is really interesting. Um I've been reading about the study, so this is 350 people in the study. Half had a diagnosis of clinical anxiety, so they had anxiety to a level where you know, we would say this is a disorder, right? This is significant significant experience of of anxiety. And they were asking about this the study was looking at the frequency of and duration of experiences when it comes to um déjà vu, and essentially asking the groups to look back over the last month, right?

[00:16:58]And they found that people that had the clinical anxiety had more experiences of déjà vu, and I think they were more um they were more What's the word? Um intense, longer experiences of déjà vu. When they looked over the last year, they didn't find a significant difference. Although I find that interesting because I mean it's hard to remember what your deja vu is about. I can remember like rough scenarios that it seems to happen, but I get it really often. Doesn't mean I can remember it. It's like a dream, right?

[00:17:26]>> Yeah.

[00:17:26]>> You wake up from a dream for like that's a bad nightmare. By the end of the day, you can very rarely remember anything about the dream at all. So, I don't know how well people would recollect frequency duration over the year.

[00:17:37]>> struggle to remember what happened last week.

[00:17:39]>> Yeah.

[00:17:39]>> Like I don't I don't How many people are able to look back on the last year and >> know what happened in the last 10 minutes.

[00:17:46]>> I did actually experience deja vu last week when I was researching deja deja vu.

[00:17:51]>> Yeah.

[00:17:52]>> There's something weird That's weird, isn't it? You have deja vu >> It's like a recency a recency thing. I spent the morning like Google looking at stuff, and then in the afternoon, I experienced deja vu.

[00:18:03]>> That's nuts. But yeah, that this I mean, what this kind of showed what was really I guess interesting and what they found is that people with anxiety found that they had deja vu more often. I guess the hypothesis is anxiety a trigger almost of deja vu. Do people with high levels of stress or worry of anxiety experience it more? Well, I I think it's interesting because of course OCD is a is a subcategory of anxiety. It's an anxiety disorder, right? So, I have OCD and I have quite a lot of deja vu. So, it does make sense to me because also I find that the the deja vu tends to be kind of intrusive and it tends to be like trigger like a sense of of worry. So, to me it does make sense.

[00:18:47]>> Yeah. And part of the idea is that both anxiety and deja vu are relying on like circuitry in the brain that's involved in memory and also emotion. And that makes that fits with what you just said that it is is going to be more likely. And it there is evidence that it's more likely when you're stressed and when you're tired. And also young adults are the most likely to experience it.

[00:19:13]>> Really?

[00:19:13]>> Yeah.

[00:19:14]>> Is that developmental perhaps actually?

[00:19:16]>> So people think, so some ideas about why is that firstly in young adulthood you're having a lot of new experiences and the more novel experiences the more your brain compares to what it knows and maybe you're more likely to get that error in familiarity.

[00:19:33]But then the other other idea is like because your information processing is like still developing and like less efficient. So again you get more more errors as well.

[00:19:43]>> Gosh that's fascinating and I think you would found a really interesting case study with this didn't you as well?

[00:19:47]>> Yeah so there was >> kind of freaking out actually this is a bit >> I know it's a bit scary. There was a case study of persistent deja vu. So this is 23 year old man who had experienced anxiety so this partly where the anxiety stuff comes from and he experienced persistent deja vu for 3 years. So it wasn't constant but it was so regular and when he experienced it it could be for minutes or even longer at a time and he reported that it felt like feeling trapped in a time loop.

[00:20:16]>> Got it.

[00:20:17]>> watching TV, he stopped like reading and going out because he was trying to like avoid that feeling.

[00:20:23]>> But because also everything you do would trigger it.

[00:20:26]>> Yeah and then I you could surely would easily start to feel like what is real and what is not real. What is wild is that they did neurological examinations on him. So they tested his brain activity and they basically couldn't find abnormalities.

[00:20:42]>> Yeah but then does that start that brings the question of like is it the matrix again?

[00:20:46]>> And also is it our ability to detect abnormalities with these neuroimaging?

[00:20:50]>> Yeah okay yeah okay so so you think it's a it's a reader re-using error perhaps is it like a diagnostic error?

[00:20:56]>> I think it's more like it's very difficult to define an abnormality if we don't know what we're looking for like like we don't know about the so much of the brain different and also like deja vu might be triggered by these different processes in the brain. Different when it's epilepsy, different when it's um you know, when it's like about familiarity and memory. So, it's really tricky to pin down, basically.

[00:21:17]>> And it's probably a good point to just say as well that if you're experiencing déjà vu often enough that's causing you distress, it can be a sign of underlying issues. We mentioned epilepsy, so of course go and see your doctor. Um and a reminder of course, as we always say in the show notes, this podcast um is about us figuring out life. It does not uh replace medical advice. It is not medical advice for people. If you have any concerns about your health in any way, see your doctor. Very important.

[00:21:41]It's in the show notes. We would just want to make sure that people see and know that.

[00:21:45]>> Yeah. Okay. So, let's wrap up.

[00:21:48]We've looked at what day déjà vu is. I think the prevailing theory, and one that is underpinning the other ones about like um familiar spaces and stuff, is that familiarity happens faster in the brain, and then you are able to recollect it or you're not. So, it's like this error between familiarity and recollection.

[00:22:07]>> Um but there's all these strange things about like it being persistent for some people, um it being in your dreams. Like there's there's a lot going on here.

[00:22:15]>> It's more to learn about it, but there's definitely I think that link with anxiety and things like OCD definitely makes a lot of sense to me.

[00:22:21]>> to learn. And it is like a normal thing to experience sometimes. So, in part two, we're going to work through um listener dilemmas, like you said, about um what is that thing when you feel like something bad is going to happen. Can we actually predict the future? And then we're going to get into some of those common things that people claim about déjà vu in part three in myths, facts, and it's complicated.

[00:22:44]>> See you guys then.

[00:22:45]Hello everyone. Welcome to part two of the figuring it out podcast.

[00:22:50]Uh my name's Alex George.

[00:22:52]>> And I'm Dr. Catherine Bates.

[00:22:54]>> And we are in the middle of dealing with déjà vu. Not literally, we are trying to answer questions around déjà vu. And we are going to be in this part answering two listener dilemmas this week. I'm literally loving this topic. It is so fascinating. So, I'd really love to hear what you guys think. So, please do DM us. We've got what used to be the Stomp Cast page is the new figuring out page.

[00:23:14]The handle is >> the figuring out podcast.

[00:23:17]>> That would make sense. So, do DM us on that. And of course, if you do have a listener question, then email >> [email protected].

[00:23:25]>> I'm glad that you know that.

[00:23:26]>> I can't believe I got that first go.

[00:23:28]>> You got it. You nailed it. You're just the brain. She's just got this the PhDs and stuff in her brain. She's got lots of intelligence. Right, let's do the dilemma number one. Sometimes when I experience deja vu, I get the feeling that I know exactly what is going to happen next.

[00:23:42]Why is that? And similarly, why do we sometimes get the feeling that something bad is going to happen like a premonition?

[00:23:51]I I really I really relate to this. Kind of what we're doing in part one. I generally I would say never have deja vu in like a nostalgic warm fuzzy way. It's like uh-oh. Like something bad is going to happen. Actually, to be honest, I had it. I didn't realize. Maybe it Maybe we do it again. I had it earlier on.

[00:24:09]>> Today?

[00:24:10]>> Yeah.

[00:24:11]>> Oh.

[00:24:11]>> I had it earlier on after I went to we recorded the episode when got um uh Joe and the Juice.

[00:24:17]>> Yeah.

[00:24:18]>> And then I had a moment walk going up the escalators. I was about to go and grab a coffee. Don't know I won't. And I had this moment of like weirdness around it. That's really strange. Anyway, okay, great. Let's get into this.

[00:24:29]>> Well, um there's a mix of stuff. I think like it's quite hard to find the evident the science behind this like for example, but psychologists think that this is potentially caused by different psychological issues. So, like anxiety, um like it's more common if you've had previous trauma for example, and they think that it's like a fear response that's like being triggered.

[00:24:55]Um and then some people think it's about meaning making. So, meaning making is is an idea of across different types of psychology, the idea that we're constantly trying to attribute meaning to things. So, um you know, find patterns in what we're experiencing, um, and that's like part of how our brain like constructs perception.

[00:25:15]>> isn't it? Humans look at things and try and make sense of them. That's kind of like who we are. So, if some if you experience something that feels different, you're going to try and then think what's going on here. And that often leads I think that leads if you are someone that has a sense of uncertainty because it is uncertainty, right, of what this is. If you're someone with anxiety, you'll often have an intolerance of that uncertainty. So, if something pops into your head, it's like this feels like familiar or what's going on here, you'll you'll you generally then lean towards the side of like, "Oh my god, this must mean something bad, right?"

[00:25:49]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:51]>> you then when it happens, you think something bad's going to happen.

[00:25:53]>> It's like a pattern or a cycle of expecting something bad to happen. But, I also there's a set of set of experiments again, Professor Anne Cleary, who we talked about in the first part. She She does these really neat experiments that test that test this out. So, she essentially tested this idea of It is called precognition, and that's not necessarily specifically bad, but that's when you strongly feel in deja vu that you know what is going to happen next. So, some people when they experience deja vu, they will say, "I knew exactly what was going to happen next." And what is that? It's like a kind of a premonition.

[00:26:29]But, when she tested this in experiments, she found that evidence that it was an illusion. So, participants that were convinced they knew what would happen next during deja vu didn't predict what was going to happen any more accurately than participants that were not convinced they knew what was going to happen next.

[00:26:48]So, it was like kind of a false premonition that you So, they would they basically had this like virtual reality like maze situation where they had to look at different directions. And people that were experiencing deja vu when doing this task, they if they were convinced it was going to go right and they like this is, you know, my premonition. Like I'm convinced I know what's going to happen. They were not they didn't get the correct answer any more than people that didn't know they were right.

[00:27:15]>> How do they time it in the test environment to like cuz deja vu might not happen every couple of weeks or whatever it was.

[00:27:21]How do you time that? Or because or maybe like this morning, is it the fact that when you think you can have deja vu, you're then more likely to have it?

[00:27:28]>> Well, yeah, it's like we were saying.

[00:27:29]>> Everyone's having deja vu watching this right now.

[00:27:31]>> Yeah, literally. Well, it's like what we were saying before um in the previous part about how I had it when I was doing the research for it. Like I think it's one of those things that once and it is based on familiarity. And then also the more we're talking about it, it's also like my friend recently bought um an orange car and now I genuinely see his orange car everywhere. I see it all the time. And it's like a familiarity like >> It's like when you buy a black cat black cat and everyone you think oh my god everyone's got black cats.

[00:27:56]>> Now everyone's got a black cat.

[00:27:58]>> Everyone's got a black cat. It'd be quite interesting actually when for people watching this like jump on the on the YouTube comments or DM us um on the socials like have you experienced more deja vu since or when after this episode?

[00:28:11]Like see whether you experience more deja vu and let us know. I'd be really intrigued to hear what your deja vu what kind of vibes it is.

[00:28:17]>> And I think also coming back to that like being convinced that you know that something's going to happen, probably by chance like that thing will happen. So, then it will like sometimes. So, then it will like reinforce like okay, I actually know what's going to happen in deja vu. Like I am I'm I'm having this premonition because that will be the one that you remember. But all the times that you were wrong, you won't remember that.

[00:28:38]>> Yeah, sure. You're going to really like like get anchor onto that and say oh my god this has proven my hypothesis.

[00:28:44]>> Yeah. But I I found it not comforting, but I think it's quite like validating or useful to know that it we we can't really predict the future.

[00:28:52]>> That's quite nice to know, actually. Cuz if you'd have turned around and said that actually done that she'd done a study and found that you can, that's kind of like quite freaky.

[00:28:58]>> Yeah.

[00:28:59]>> Okay, let's do dilemma two. So, how much of what I think I'm seeing and experiencing right now is actually my brain's best guess rather than what's really there? And how would I even know the difference? So, there's a perception question, right?

[00:29:15]>> Yes, exactly. So, this is fascinating. We kind of touched on it in the first part, but our perception is active construction rather than passively taking in information through our our eyes or from our environment. We're constantly predicting what's going to happen next, and there's some really like nice examples with like prediction error. So, we're always predicting what's going to happen next, and there's often errors in that. Um so, for example, if you step on an escalator that's off, so you have to walk up the steps, you can consciously see with your eyes that that escalator is not on and you know you're going to have to walk, but you stand on the escalator and your body does like a weird like jolt.

[00:29:59]>> so weird when that happens, isn't it?

[00:30:01]>> weird, but that is that is basically a prediction error, and that's because what you're perceiving through your eyes is not like 100% of what is actually processed. Like, the rest of it is your brain predicting what's going to happen.

[00:30:14]>> It's like when you pick up a box. When you pick up a parcel and you think it's really heavy and you go like like that in the air. You were really expecting that to be heavy and then it wasn't, but you still lifted it in the way with a force that you would have if it was heavy. And you you feel really weird, don't you, when you do that? Like, "Oh my god, what happened?"

[00:30:31]>> Exactly. And then on like you know, like on a deeper or a bigger scale, it does kind of link back to the the model of like learning that we talked about in grief in the in the heartbreak episode, where your brain is having to learn a new reality. That's more like that's like an embedded version of this. So, it happens on the scale of literally seeing with your eyes and then it happens on a scale of like deeper attachment as well.

[00:30:55]>> In a sense, perhaps it's useful to like bring this into like you know, because I know a lot of you will come to this from a mental health perspective. I think it's really useful and comforting to realize that therefore your thoughts if if your reaction, if your perception of things are wrong, so must your thoughts be. Like this idea like we often believe our thoughts as like an absolute. Like your thoughts are facts, but actually your thoughts are mostly nonsense. No offense, but like your thoughts are just like things that are thrown up into your head that are jumbles of past experiences trying to use those or your interpretation of past experiences and then to using that to try and predict a reality, but in truth it's just just ideas.

[00:31:39]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:31:40]>> Just thoughts and I find it so useful sometimes. I actually really like it when I make assumptions and then my brain's proven wrong and I try now to really go right, you were wrong with that. You thought even something really simple or small because it kind of for me, I think particularly someone with OCD, solidifies that fact that your thoughts are just thoughts. They're not necessarily reality and often you'll think something, you believe it to be fact and reality it's not true. It's like there's an story that I heard before um as a good analogy for this where, you know, a guy and a girl boyfriend and girlfriend are are sat at the sat at the bar having a drink. The boy the boyfriend goes up to the bar and he's talking to a a girl at the bar and they have a big hug and they seem really happy to see each other and, you know, the girl sat there thinks, "Oh gosh, that's obviously like a girl that he's dated. Like I'm feeling really jealous.

[00:32:28]I'm really annoyed. Like why isn't he come back?" Oh, they hugged again. You go up she goes up to say like, "Hi, like who are you?" And it it out it's his cousin or, you know, it's whatever, right? And and they and then there's like that that person would have believed with all their heart that, "Oh my god, this is Oh my god, this is probably an ex. This is awful. Like this is a threat. Like why is he not, you know, this is making me really jealous."

[00:32:50]But when you go that your reality is completely different to what you thought, and I think it's just worth just remembering like in your day-to-day life, just do not believe everything you think.

[00:33:01]>> Yeah. And allow yourself to ask yourself about the thoughts. I mean, that's also really helpful. Like like how you just explained. Like give yourself the space to be like, "Okay, why am I thinking that? Where has that come from?

[00:33:14]Um am I going to think that tomorrow?"

[00:33:16]Like, you know, after that.

[00:33:18]>> There's there's a there's a trick for example that you is used in OCD, but can be useful for for anyone. Actually, there's two good ones, I think. One is using the maybe maybe not um technique.

[00:33:26]So, you have a thought and it's uh and that's a negative one about yourself or someone else or a situation. And just answer maybe maybe not. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. You don't know. So, let's not let's not lead or let's let's not follow it. You might be right. Might not be. Cool. Let's get on with our day. And the other trick that I think is really useful as well, especially if you have a very loaded thought and a belief um that's popped into your head or a worry, it's saying what what what um I say is, "Is there even 0.01% chance this could be OCD?"

[00:33:56]So, what I'm saying is that is there even 0.01% that this thought could be wrong? So, it doesn't have to relate to OCD. You could be like, "Is there 0.01% chance this is an anxious thought?"

[00:34:06]>> Yeah.

[00:34:06]>> And if there is even that percentage chance, you're going to just allow the thought to be. You're not going to engage with it. You're just going to have a cup of tea. You're going to go for your walk. You're going to get on with your day. You're just going to say, "Thank you for the thought, but I'm going to go on and get on with my day."

[00:34:19]>> Yeah.

[00:34:19]>> Not engaging with it. Cuz if there's even a chance that it's nonsense, let it play out and you'll find out anyway.

[00:34:25]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:27]Um I think that's really helpful for for people. Um I had a really weird experience the other day.

[00:34:32]>> Did you? Tell me. Where's this going to go?

[00:34:35]>> I don't know. That was a very good segue. [laughter] But basically, I had a really weird perception thing, and then it led me to ask my friend about it, who did her B.A.

[00:34:43]in this, which I'm going to get into.

[00:34:45]>> that you have people you can just lean on.

[00:34:47]>> Oh, everyone. Yeah, honestly.

[00:34:49]>> You had a conundrum, a life conundrum, you just managed to ask when you made space, basically.

[00:34:52]>> Just just uh >> Well, you did a Ph.D., that's no problem. Yeah, what's up?

[00:34:56]>> Um, so basically, I'd watched um a podcast episode on YouTube, so that I watched it like TV. Two days later, I was in a cafe, and I was scrolling on Instagram, and saw um a clip of the podcast episode, and it was a reel. So, I sat in this cafe, and I was watching it, and the sound was playing, so I was like, "Oh, that's annoying." Went to mute it, it was already muted. And I looked at it again, and I could hear them speaking in their voices whilst I was watching it. And I checked it like three times. I put it next to my ear, there was no one speaking, and I could see it, and I could hear it again. I put it next to my ear.

[00:35:30]And this never happened to me before.

[00:35:32]>> What?

[00:35:32]>> It was so wild. So, spoke to my friend >> [laughter] >> That's crazy.

[00:35:37]>> to my friend um Emily Thomas. She did her Ph.D. in perception, and basically like how our brain like predicts reality. And she said it was a combination of strong mental imagery, which such as what I was talking about, what I used to research, like strong imagery in the mind, and also, yeah, my brain predicting and projecting that information, like the combination of those things.

[00:36:01]>> Is that like when you read a text? So, if you text me, or say Abby texts me, whoever, I read it in their like voice?

[00:36:08]Like I can hear them through the um message. I like Abby will message, I'm reading like No joking.

[00:36:15]I'm joking.

[00:36:17]She knew I didn't do that. But you you kind of like picture the person, but also the sound?

[00:36:23]>> Yeah.

[00:36:23]>> I really do that.

[00:36:24]>> had this conversation with my friend at the weekend. She said, everybody she reads a text from the person and it will be their voice in her head." But do you But do you have it for every different person?

[00:36:35]>> Not everyone, only people that I really like know.

[00:36:38]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:36:39]>> But I will like like the image of them and the them almost like not talking to me, but like it's not as clear as that, but it feels like it's said rather than thought.

[00:36:46]>> Sometimes if I've been watching like a lot of a TV show or like the same as the same person talking a lot, just my whole like inner voice and narrator will be that voice.

[00:36:57]>> Wow.

[00:36:57]>> Like Stephen Fry.

[00:36:59]>> have that? Do you have that?

[00:37:01]Apps, do Do you read it in my voice when I message you?

[00:37:04]That's interesting. Do you?

[00:37:06]Emma does as well.

[00:37:07]>> Yeah, interesting.

[00:37:08]>> I wonder if that's a There's a thing I'd like We need to do lots of polls for these things. I wonder like what percentage of people There's a good question. If it's social If it's on the social clip, this might end up on your reels, guys.

[00:37:19]Get in the comments and let us know, do you read messages from other people in their voice or do you just read it? I find it so weird to hear what you just read it as just words.

[00:37:29]>> No, it's in my voice.

[00:37:30]>> Yeah, I know, but I'm No, but I mean like do other people that don't just read it as a word?

[00:37:34]>> Yeah, some people don't have an inner inner voice. Some people don't have mental imagery. They don't visualize information.

[00:37:39]>> Get in the comments, guys. I need to know what you experience.

[00:37:42]>> Um but yeah, my weird example is basically to say that we are not passively perceiving information. Like it's this constant combination to construct reality, predicting what's going on. Our brain is predicting what's going on and it's also getting it wrong.

[00:37:58]Um >> Is that also why This is going to tangent. This is the whole podcast point.

[00:38:03]When they look at So, this is this is stuff I've been I've read but long like a while ago, but found it really fascinating. When they look at evidence, for example, and you ask for eyewitness reports from an event. Say there's a natural event that happens, you know, or something unfolds or maybe like a you know, fire in a building. When you ask people who are in the same room to recall the events, everyone has a slightly different take of what happened, and some people have very extreme differences in what they've seen, and they believe fully that what they saw, the version they saw, is the correct version. For example, people witnessing a car crash or, you know, whatever, they will recount different experiences. I find that that's so interesting. So, they've seen the same thing, but they believe fully that a different, you know, that they perceived it in a different way. Maybe that explains it. It's not a passive thing. They're applying narrative to it.

[00:38:56]>> And also, like, our memory is like not great.

[00:39:00]>> Really? We not Do you Do you should How much How much should we trust our own memories?

[00:39:05]>> Well, >> That's a question of its own. Write that down, Abby. That's going to be another one.

[00:39:09]>> But, like, I think even, you know, even anecdotally, there'll be stuff that I remember from my childhood that I don't know if I remember it because I've seen photos of it or if I actually experienced of it. I I if I actually experienced it. And this is that exact same point of, like, our reality is like a prediction.

[00:39:25]>> I remember Okay, I'm going to keep this completely definite. We do a different episode on What do you reckon, guys?

[00:39:29]Should we do a question how much you can trust memory? But I I definitely have remembered things that turned out that weren't true. They didn't ever happen or I I've constructed them from other people's experiences, but not in a way that I'm trying to tell something that's not true. I just I just feel like that's what's happened, and someone's like, "No, no, that actually happened to someone else."

[00:39:47]>> Yeah.

[00:39:47]>> So strange. So strange.

[00:39:49]>> And let's wrap up this bit and get onto the weird myths and facts and complicated. So, I think essentially what we've talked about is that there's really complex ways that our brain constructs reality. No wonder we experience things like déjà vu. No one And our brain is also, yes, predicting, taking a best guess as what was in the in the dilemma.

[00:40:15]It's full of errors, and there's like multiple different streams of consciousness.

[00:40:20]>> Brilliant. Guys, thank you so much for sending in these dilemmas. If you want to send in a question, an experience, a dilemma that you've had, please email it to >> [email protected].

[00:40:32]>> And we'd love to hear particularly questions relating to anything that's related to relationships, experience of body and mind, so kind of health, about identity.

[00:40:46]>> Yeah.

[00:40:46]>> What were the other ones?

[00:40:47]>> Uh >> Main things we're kind of talking about.

[00:40:49]>> Modern life.

[00:40:50]>> Modern life is interesting. So that could be AI, social media, yeah.

[00:40:54]>> And >> one? And work.

[00:40:55]>> Ambition.

[00:40:56]>> Ambition and work. So those are kind of topics we're kind of thinking about at the moment. We're going to like delve into different things, but things relating to that would be absolutely fascinating. We'll kind of pair the questions up with the topics that we're kind of delving into that week. Guys, thank you so much for listening, watching to this part. If you're on YouTube, it'll roll on to the third part. If not, a reminder for people on audio, there's a new episode, part one, part two, part three, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of each week. So, we'll see you now in part three very soon, either tomorrow or in a few moments' time. Goodbye.

[00:41:28]>> Hi everyone. Welcome back to part three.

[00:41:31]This is myth, fact, and it's complicated. And we're going to be going through some of the common statements about deja vu and figuring out if it's a myth, if it's a fact, or dissecting into why it's complicated.

[00:41:44]>> Cool. Shall we do it?

[00:41:45]>> Yeah, you ready?

[00:41:46]>> Let's do it. I'll read the first one.

[00:41:47]Deja vu means deja vu means you've lived this moment before. So that's that's what that's what we're talking about in part one, really, isn't it? That kind of experience of I've been here before. I've seen this before, and it feels vivid.

[00:42:01]>> Do you know what? I've written myth, but I don't actually think I believe that it's a myth after like what we've talked about.

[00:42:06]>> So So yeah, cuz I guess it may well be true true, but not necessarily. But but but the thing is is that our experience of it is premonition, right? That it's a belief of premonition, right? It's like I have Okay, so I shouldn't say that. Probably the wrong tenses, but it's either premonition or fact that you feel that you have genuinely relived this. You either believe you're you're seeing the future or you've already lived the future in essence.

[00:42:33]>> Yeah. I think what is the myth is that it's highly unlikely or you technically haven't lived that exact moment before.

[00:42:41]>> You've just been there before.

[00:42:43]>> [laughter] >> But you But there is the spatial like resemblance hypothesis. Like that is legit. Like when you are in a space that is very similar to a space you've been before or the exact same space that you like watched on a film 5 years ago, you're like you're going to get that sense of familiarity and that's that's true. Like the familiarity.

[00:43:02]>> also is that even though the voice one for example, if you're if we're having a conversation, a similar conversation many times, but sometimes we're probably going to repeat phrases >> Yeah, exactly.

[00:43:13]>> or even just a sense of response that feels very much like oh my god, that's happened before, but it probably has, but not in the sense that you have you're reliving an exact moment. It's just extremely familiar.

[00:43:23]>> Yeah. So, I'm going to go with it's complicated because there's parts of your recollection or whatever that's not work like >> Well, I'm going to go with a myth being an autistic because you haven't actually lived that moment before.

[00:43:36]>> Yeah, okay. If we're going to Yeah, let's let's be clear. Let's be clear.

[00:43:40]>> Yeah. And And the strongest evidence is that there's a conflict between familiarity and recollection. Like there's this error in familiarity.

[00:43:48]>> Uh let's do the second one. Your memory works like a video recorder. So, this is the bit This is so interesting. So, this is the bit where we're talking about where are you just receiving almost like that camera right there?

[00:44:02]Like I am speaking. There is a visual uh there's light that's refracting off me, that's being received purely like a a camera recorder. That's That's not how it happens with our brain, though, is it?

[00:44:14]>> No.

[00:44:14]Um, your memory and your recollection and even your perception is reconstructive and is actively constructing based on like what it's predicting to see, um, what it actually sees and your experiences. So, it's not, uh, just like, um, you know, absently like recording what's going on in front of you and that's partly why déjà vu happens.

[00:44:37]>> I think it's also, you know, again, going back to, you know, for people watching us, listening to this, when you think about your experience of life, really think this is a strong that that this kind of knowledge is useful to, again, apply to your own life to realize that yeah, difficult things happen in your life. Let's not pretend like people go through difficult things, but there is a sense of many of these situations are what you make of it, right? So, you know, something very difficult can happen. Do you use that and go, right, I'm going to approach this with the sense of like, this thing has happened, but I'm going to learn from it and move forward in my life or is this input that I've happened experienced what's happened going to just like change the way that I see the world forevermore. I'm going to look at the world with a very pessimistic view.

[00:45:20]I'm going to go outside with like a an anger and a hatred of the world, you know, it it's if you believe that your life is awful, your life is awful. I know this is complex, but I'm like, if you really believe life is just terrible, then you will have a terrible life. I'm not quite as things that if you think that life is brilliant and wonderful, you can have a rosy life, that's not true. I'm I'm being deliberately black and white here, but I think it is really important to to bear in mind that a lot of what you experience is how you interpret that experience and what you do with it. It's like the whole example of two people have a car crash. One person gets out of the car and thinks, I'm never going to drive again. The other person and and they live the whole life with a smaller bubble. They can't go places easily. They're always scared of cars. The other person gets out of the car and and moves forward with their life. They they take the lessons from it. Of course, there might be things that, you know, they have to deal with, but they get in the car again and they go and live their lives. Like, I think it's quite important to realize that what you decide and the meaning you apply to things does have an impact. It does make a difference.

[00:46:23]>> So, it's basically like helpful to have hope.

[00:46:26]>> I think so. And it's not blind hope.

[00:46:28]It's not like you know, it's not pretending like, you know, something bad has happened. We go, "Oh, no, it was wonderful." I mean, that's obviously stupid. That's not what I'm talking about. But, I think it's realizing a bad thing can happen, but then a good thing can happen again, too.

[00:46:40]>> Yeah.

[00:46:41]>> Like, something like it's like, for example, being scarred by um you know, a bad interaction with someone. I think, well, I'm never going to have a friend again in my life. A friend has betrayed me. Therefore, I'm never going to have friends again.

[00:46:51]You're guaranteed to have a miserable life if you never are open to friendship again. You know, you might have lessons you learn and go, well, actually, I'm going to be a bit more cautious about this, that, or the other.

[00:47:00]But, I'm still going to be open to it.

[00:47:02]You know, I think it's just quite important because sometimes, you know, our brain can have a very negative bias.

[00:47:07]If you allow life, it can allow your interpretation of life to become jaded.

[00:47:10]It can be quite, you know, your world can become quite small.

[00:47:13]>> get dark.

[00:47:15]>> Next one.

[00:47:15]>> So, um deja vu is a sign that something is wrong with your brain.

[00:47:21]>> Well, this is complicated because as you've described, deja vu can be very normal experience, but also can be sign of things like epilepsy. Also, even not just on that element of things, but if you're having lots of deja vu, perhaps you could be someone that's experiencing, based on us the studies we talked about, perhaps you're experiencing more anxiety. So, I think like again, this this is not here for medical advice. We are a pondering podcast about life, but I would say that as with anything, if you're concerned about it, particularly if it's affecting your function in any way, shape, or form, your experience of life, go and see a doctor because, you know, of course, there are more serious things that can be related to it as well.

[00:47:59]>> Yeah, and also that it's more common when you're feeling stressed and when you're feeling tired. Like it could be maybe it could be a sign >> Maybe it's a sign, but not the sign you think it is.

[00:48:09]>> And also if we're if we're going to be really specific about it, what's written here is like a sign that something is wrong with your brain. You might just be experiencing more deja vu because you are stressed and tired or I experience anxiety for example.

[00:48:23]And that doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with your brain.

[00:48:26]Like this it could ebb and flow. Like it could be you're experiencing what more often right now, but it it might go away as well.

[00:48:33]>> Rolls on nicely to the next one which is stress, tiredness, anxiety make deja vu more likely. Well, based on what we've said, yes. We can see the studies and see that's true. Uh number five, um we only use 10% of our brains. Ooh, this is interesting.

[00:48:48]>> I've kind of thrown that in there.

[00:48:49]>> Yeah, no, I love it though. It's good.

[00:48:50]It's good because some of these actually consolidate the knowledge we've talked about, but also some new thoughts. So, it's consolidate.

[00:48:55]>> Yeah, exactly. And we're we're talking about we talked a lot about how our brain um perceives things and like what's going on. So, we've kind of stretched out into reality, which is why I threw this one in there.

[00:49:06]>> Love it. I think this comes from like Have you seen the film Limitless?

[00:49:10]>> Yeah.

[00:49:10]>> he takes the he takes the pill and he takes these pills and they make his brain like they take his brain to like full capacity. And it's quite a common thing that people think we don't really use much of our brains, but I don't think that's true, right?

[00:49:23]>> It's completely false. We are basically using all of our brains all of the time.

[00:49:28]So, most of function is dependent on networks of areas. So, like circuits of areas. So, they'll be connect one of the things that we test is like connect connectivity underpinning different functions or different types of mental health.

[00:49:45]And we need lots of different areas to make certain things happen. There are some examples like um, the left brain, right brain thing is also basically a myth to to the extreme things like, uh, creativity and analytics, but there is one thing like language, that's very left brain. So, that is specifically like, we can pin that to an area, but in terms of like when you're out and about, going about your day, perceiving things, like you're using a lot of your brain.

[00:50:17]>> fun to think that you could like somehow like switch on and turn it into like like limitless and do everything, isn't it? Quite fun idea. Yeah, that would be nice. Imagine if you could just like switch on productivity. Yeah, suddenly you were just like so like good at everything. It's fascinating. The other one that people kind of link to this, not to steal a myth for another day, but people, um, often this is often this perception that when you're awake, you your brain is working, when you're asleep it's in some sort of like coma or said complete sedative state, but obviously like brain is resting, but it's also an active process, right? It's a detoxification of the brain, you know, it's it's a very Sometimes I think it's kind of harmful the belief that, you know, nothing really happens when you sleep because people think it's wasted time, but >> Yeah, sleep's so important. Um, one of the, like, you know, the strong findings that we have in neuroscience is like consolidation of memory like happening during sleep. So, sleep is so important. And learning as well, it's really important.

[00:51:10]>> So, if you're going to improve an area of your life, sleep's definitely one of those areas that's worth working on if you sleep badly.

[00:51:16]>> But really interestingly, sleep is complicated because it's really difficult to understand why, um, people experience like sleep in different ways.

[00:51:27]So, some people can sleep for six hours and feel really rested, some people can sleep for 10 hours and not feel rested.

[00:51:33]Like, sleep's actually really complicated.

[00:51:35]>> It's an interesting topic though, isn't it? We're going to We're going to do quite a bit of sleep ones, aren't we?

[00:51:38]Right, and this actually links perfectly to the next one, dreams can predict the future. I mean, again, this is, um, this is an interesting one because I think it's probably I think it might be one of the most scariest forms of like the deja vu things because you are believing that you have predicted this happening, but obviously you could we can't predict the future.

[00:51:58]>> No. I don't I don't think we can predict the future.

[00:52:00]>> You've got it's complicated though on here.

[00:52:02]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:52:03]>> [laughter] >> At the time you were like saying >> actually pretty rogue, mate. I was feeling like really lofty.

[00:52:07]Um, of course we can't predict the future.

[00:52:11]Uh, Okay, so I've written here something can come from thinking about it the other way around. So, if we experience something in everyday life that resembles something that we've dreamt about, we might get this strong feeling of of familiarity. So, I've thought about it that other way around, which is like the deja vu way around. Um, but yeah, like dreams cannot predict the future. Let's stick to it in a in a very clear statement. Black and white way. We're going to do it in a black and white way.

[00:52:41]It's it's it's >> It's it's you can't predict the future.

[00:52:44]Again, it would I Would you like to predict the future?

[00:52:47]>> No.

[00:52:47]>> If you could predict the future, would you want to?

[00:52:48]>> No. It's like when people do those um tests where if they want to, they could find out like all kinds of things in terms of health. I don't I'm okay.

[00:52:58]>> I'm someone actually Yeah, I again I would I wouldn't want to predict the future. And also, I I am just I never do this, but I am also like the big thing now in health, I don't know if you've kind of seen this as well. So, people have this kind of full body scans that kind of check their bodies. And the problem is with some of these things is that you end up finding erroneous things that are not a problem that you then have to investigate. And the process of investigating it cause huge amount of worry and stress, but also sometimes you then end up having to do things like biopsy stuff that you wouldn't have otherwise touched. So, I think it's a tricky balance in health, isn't it? You want to catch things that problematic early, but too much of like It's kind of like doing genetic testing and finding out every single thing, you know, every single gene that you have that could be a risk of something. Like, are you forever going to live your life just Do you know what I mean? It's going to affect your experience.

[00:53:47]>> It's really tricky. Obviously, prevention is so important. So, like, when you identify even like the merest problem, you should go and get it checked out. Like, we should be spending way more time on prevention. But, speculating about the future, especially on tests like some of these scans, are not 100% accurate, or you might like see a blob on a scan that's just a blob.

[00:54:07]Like, that blob's fine. But, like you said, you've gone through all this stress and worry of trying to investigate it that you might not have had otherwise.

[00:54:13]>> Yeah, it's it's a tricky one. But, yeah, I I definitely for me, I would never want to predict the future. So, I guess in summary for these three parts then, um I feel like it's it's been really I've really enjoyed doing this episode particularly because I think it has So, I say it's really helped me I don't know what other people think that are watching listening, but it's really helped me, I think, remind myself that your brain actually lies to you quite a lot. And it makes all of errors, lots of errors, processing errors. Like you said about like the escalator when you go into get on the escalator and you jump or something when you pick up the box, or you have a belief um that you've experienced something like in a state of déjà vu, but it's it's not. It's just like a It's it there's some sort of processing error in the brain. And it kind of gives me relief I guess in a sense that you can allow yourself a bit more kind of freedom to say like, "Hey, like I don't have to like figure everything out. I don't have to know like certainty. I don't have to assume that something different means something's wrong >> Yeah.

[00:55:09]>> all the time.

[00:55:10]>> Exactly. And like difference is key.

[00:55:13]Like, across all of our brains, across everyone, there's differences, and that's important. That's what makes us human.

[00:55:19]>> Guys, thank you so much. Um I've absolutely loved the answering the the questions this week, but also I'm really enjoying making this. It's been brilliant. Um it'd be awesome to hear feedback from you guys as we're pretty This is we're figuring this out as a podcast. We're literally adapting and learning as we go. So, share some feedback with us either on the comments on YouTube, DM us on the socials as well. Even send an email in to let us know what you think, topics you'd like to hear about. Maybe there's conundrums you've had in your life that are not necessarily dilemmas you're experiencing, but topics you'd love to hear about. Of course, we'll do our best to kind of answer them. And and and yes, send in your dilemmas because yeah, it makes it fascinating. And there are many people out there that might relate to your dilemma, and that's always a good thing as well.

[00:55:58]>> Yeah, definitely.

[00:56:00]So, I'll give you the info. You can find like our clips and all the information on the Figuring Out podcast on Instagram. So, we're going to have new episodes every week on podcast platforms. You get part one on a Monday, part two on Tuesday, and part three on Wednesday. And on YouTube, you get the full video episode on a Wednesday. So, please subscribe in your favorite platform, and we will see you next week.

[00:56:24]>> See you next week. Thank you so much.

[00:56:25]Goodbye.