The Crash: Can Mackenzie Shirilla Really Not Remember?

Ajouté : 2026-06-04

[00:00:01]This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Bruski and Robin Green.

[00:00:08]Let's go into another uh another chapter uh of this uh this story. Uh McKenzie Sharilla says she has no memory of the crash. Set it at the hospital. Set it at trial. Said it now from prison in Netflix's The Crash. The families don't believe her. Dominic's father says he just wants the truth so he can grieve.

[00:00:29]Two young men are dead and everyone touched by this case is carrying something that they can't put down. Uh Siobhan Scott, psychotherapist and author is with us to help break all of this down. Uh, I want to talk about that about the idea that McKenzie has no memory of what happened and and and the version of reality, the version of the truth, and I put that in air quotes, um, that everybody wants. Let's start with is it a very real possibility that she she does not remember what what happened in those final moments?

[00:01:06]>> Sure, it's possible. Um, people who have gone through a a traumatic event, particularly when they've been severely injured, can have a sense of, you know, I don't remember exactly what happened.

[00:01:19]Usually, they have fragments, >> you know, bits and pieces. It may be nonlinear, but they have, you know, flashes of of something.

[00:01:27]>> Um, but the other thing that popped into my head was head injury. definitely if she had a concussion, people lose memory after that often and don't remember what led up to it. So, that was my guess. Um I don't I don't think we got enough about all her medical um you know data what was what was all happening to her after that, >> but it certainly could have been something that after the the impact that the brain injury just her brain wasn't working at that point.

[00:02:02]Is it reasonable to think that she was trying to murder them based on everything that we know, based on her her track record of impulsive, volatile reactions to any sort of information that comes her way that she doesn't like? Um, and and and then this happening. Um, I is is it reasonable to think that that she was attempting a murder here or or is it really just something something else?

[00:02:35]>> I would not have voted for murder. Um, you know, I I just think in a person like this, it's rage induced, tantrum impulsive, and there's not a sense of sitting back even for five minutes and saying, "Gee, I think I'm going to kill my boyfriend tonight." and and our friend in the back who has done nothing to me. Um I I don't think that I mean for me that would not fit murder. It's it's horrible. It's abhorrent, >> but um I would not have voted for murder.

[00:03:11]>> It's more of an inability to empathize with anything outside of oneself, isn't it?

[00:03:19]>> That's a really good way to put it. to understand that I've got to be careful with how I express my anger here because I have concern that nobody else is damaged or injured no matter how how angry I am. You know, that would be that would be the healthy normal way to respond. Sometimes people are so upset they'll say, "I don't feel safe to drive my car." You know, because they realize, "I'm too upset right now." Good. Good.

[00:03:45]Don't get in the car when you're agitated. Yeah.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. Yeah, if if you ever have that feeling, yeah, go with it. Don't get in the car. Like, if you have the red flag, you're a healthier person than than this. Uh so, please please do that.

[00:03:58]Let's talk for a minute. Something else that we brought up in the intro there.

[00:04:02]Um one of the the parents and and I I my heart breaks for them cuz I I number one, I cannot imagine what it would be like going through that. I actually had to turn this thing off about 15 minutes in cuz I was just getting too depressed. I I was like being a father of a 13-year-old, you know, I'm getting into the age of teenageress and narcissism and all that [ __ ] Um, and you know, you it can be overwhelming sometimes as a parent. Um, and and I was just like I was watching it on Sunday morning. I'm like, I I don't want to ruin the rest of my day.

[00:04:36]Um, cuz it just it it was it was too much. Um, but but watching it and and and seeing the the finishing it and and I watched it another time too and seeing the the heartbreak of these parents, I can't contemplate what the hell that must feel like to lose your your child to the hand of some mutant like this.

[00:04:55]Um, but they also, one of the things that I thought was interesting that was said, and I'm not being I'm not criticizing this. My only thought in bringing this up is this should be reframed if they to try and get on a path of healing. That's it's my opinion. Um it was said, you know, if she would just basically tell the truth, if she should if she would tell us what she what what she remembers. She already told you she doesn't remember anything. And and I don't know that you're going to get to anything that she remembers. Even if she did, >> that's not going to change anything.

[00:05:33]hearing her say the words, "I killed them on purpose," which is never going to happen. That's not going to bring you closure. Um, nor is it necessarily reality either. It will it will fit in into the the the square peg hole you have over here of of how this should make sense to you. But unfortunately, this doesn't make sense. This was pointless. There was no reason for this.

[00:05:58]This totally didn't need to happen. Um, and and that means that they died in vain. And they did. It was it was completely pointless.

[00:06:06]>> And but that's a very hard thing to understand and accept. I again I can't imagine wrapping my mind around that as a parent. But but that statement of it they need closure. He needs closure. He needs her to say that she essentially did this on purpose.

[00:06:21]>> Right.

[00:06:21]>> What would you say to that to someone who's who's feeling that way? It's a really tough one because I think it's a it's a human tendency to want a comprehensive narrative that narrative that makes sense. Yeah. You know, a beginning to the story, a middle to the story, an end to the story. We want it to be logical, fit those puzzle pieces together. But you're right, in this case, it's not going to make sense ever.

[00:06:44]There's not going to be a good reason, a sensible, logical reason that this happened. And it's it's going to be a journey for them. I think um anger is one of the phases of grief and of course they're going to be incredibly angry at her and understandable. We all would.

[00:07:04]>> Um and that may take a decade. It may take 20 years. It may never go away for them because everybody's got their own path with how they process through grief.

[00:07:15]Um, but yeah, that would probably be the message I would be I would be sharing gently to them is that this is going to be something that you probably will never have have all the pieces to. And it's, as you said, it's something that's never never going to make sense. And and it's going to be something you grieve forever. There's never really >> very much, you know, when we look at closure, maybe we can get to a sense of acceptance about what happened. And that may feel, you know, better than I've just got to find out the answer here with all the the questions I have. But acceptance is the final phase of grief where we just can sit with something so painful and so terrible and so senseless happened, but it is what it is and and come to a place where we can just live with acceptance of that.

[00:08:08]Since the uh the doc has aired, uh TMZ, a lot of different places have been digging up phone calls between uh McKenzie and her mother and other people and uh the litany of of jailhouse violations, a lot of them sexual. Um and and the phone calls, if you listen to them, it's it's just a lot of it's it's a narcissist talking to her flying monkey. Monkey happens to be mom.

[00:08:33]um in a lot of this where it's oh it you're persecuted and and that's for real prisoners like like she's not a real prisoner like she doesn't deserve to be there for 15 years for taking the lives of two people through her neurotic uh ways of thinking. Um, what do you make of all of all of the afterthought, all the other stuff? We're finding out that she's still the same narcissistic monster that she was before the accident after. I'm not shocked at all by any of this. A lot of people seem to be, but I think me and you, you know, and a lot of other people who've dealt with this sort of personality before, of course, is part for the course. But, but do people have this idea that big thing happens, that's going to be the changing point?

[00:09:18]It's not it's not for these people.

[00:09:20]>> No, it's not. Especially for someone with this combination of traits. Um if if they learned from experience, you know, they would have learned a long time ago and this this embracement of a victim narrative that the parents validate that this how unfair and unjust she's being treated. Yeah. It it just reinforces it and it it has a very poor prognosis for her ability to ever gain any insight or learn or grow. That there was another thing that I found interesting that her parents were allowing her to live with Dom at such a young age.

[00:10:00]>> Yeah, let's talk about that. Well, and one of the interviews with dad that I saw, you know, post documentary where he's sort of trying to repair the damage and and it every time he talks, he just makes it worse.

[00:10:13]>> Pouring gas.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah. But >> he's and he ashes his his his blood.

[00:10:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. But they they had spoken in the documentary about, oh, Dom had so much money and it was really great because he spent so much on Mackenzie and Mackenzie likes nice things and all this, right? Um, Dom was dealing drugs and the dad just said that that they knew he was dealing drugs and he had a house full of guns and half of them were loaded.

[00:10:40]Okay. And you let your 17-year-old I mean I just just don't can't wrap my head around that.

[00:10:49]>> What obviously we can't diagnose here, but what kind of self-d delusion is going on there with dad? Is he just that perpetually high that he's just whoo everything's cool man? That's how we seem to kind of want to come across it feels like on the dock in my opinion.

[00:11:03]But what kind of delusion is going on in one's mind that one thinks, "Oh, this this seems like a lovely setting for my minor daughter."

[00:11:11]>> I I think the perpetually high is is probably about as good as we can get.

[00:11:18]But but she got these traits from somewhere. And I mentioned that there are biological factors that that can go along. There are genetic factors. And so she may be a lot like dad and maybe dad has some of these qualities himself. So >> if only she was chill, you know, like dad like and maybe that works for dad of being chill. But it it works for dad as himself, just not as a a dad as a father, father figure. It works if you're a uh an 18-year-old boy living in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.

[00:11:52]Um you know, and and and chilling out with your buddies. Uh that's about the only setting that that works and it still seems like he still probably kind of operates from that that way of thinking in my uh opinion. You know, we were talking earlier about the the crash itself. Um a lot of people are surprised that the way that she's acting from behind bars and the things that she's saying and things that she's doing. Um, and and for some people, a a hitting rock bottom moment like killing your boyfriend and your friend and your vehicle and being incarcerated for possibly the rest of your life uh might be the moment that uh it strikes you that hm maybe I need to change my ways.

[00:12:32]Um, this hasn't clearly. Um, if this hasn't, is there really anything that would ever fix? And that's an in a very gray word, but is there anything would ever correct or change the path of McKenzie if this hasn't >> Well, you know, I always like to hold hope, right? That's my job. That's my job. Work with difficult cases and try to hold hope. Um, if I had to write a report, I'd say prognosis guarded here.

[00:13:01]Um, yeah, >> doesn't look real good. and especially her behavior since she's been locked up isn't indicating that she's having insight and you know changing and so prognosis is not good. Now, I will say with the cluster B um personality disorders, if somebody is borderline and has um you know, let's say they they don't have the antisocial traits, they don't have all the narcissism, it's just more classic borderline personality, um you can gain a lot of progress in therapy, and there are specific kinds of therapy that help with that. But that's the one one thing out of out of this and a big piece of that is teaching emotional regulation so they can learn to control themselves better. And so if she were in prison and got a lot of therapy specifically for learning emotional regulation skills, she might get a little better with that. But I I doubt that that's going to happen in prison for her. So odds are not good. I had a list in another piece and I don't have it in front of me of just the things that she said. You know, I b I'm summarizing here, paraphrasing, you know, I basically I don't think there's anything wrong with me. I don't need help. I don't need this. You know, and then you got mom and dad further reinforcing that way of thinking. Um I as long as mom and dad are in the picture in their current mindset, is she hopeless? I mean is I mean is the best thing for her >> to go no contact with her parents essentially because they're not going to help her turn in like she's she'll just be this monster. They'll eventually die and she'll just be as dysfunctional as she's always been.

[00:14:46]>> Yeah. Cuz really they've colluded with her. Yeah.

[00:14:48]>> And and in the documentary they were colluding with her with this Oh, I think she passed out because of POTS. And you know if you've ever fainted you go limp.

[00:14:58]You don't you don't >> you don't floor it.

[00:15:01]>> You don't floor it. Yeah. I I fainted one time in my life and I just went limp. Right.

[00:15:07]>> So, um but they collude. They collude and they they keep up the story this narrative that she's a victim and this is also unfair and and it keeps her from developing and from learning anything.

[00:15:20]How do you get through to the parents?

[00:15:25]>> Because that I mean at the end of the day here like I don't sus I don't I don't think McKenzie is capable of changing on her own. I think she would would need the right people, the right reinforcement, the right system, the right, as Robin would say, loving critic. These are not loving critics.

[00:15:40]These are enablers. These are flying monkeys that are her parents. if she had the right system. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe maybe I cuz there there is an element to her that I do have some sympathy for and some empathy for of being the product of of where she came from. Ultimately, she's an adult. She made her own choices. But, but I I do have some empathy there of like, God, if if that could change, if that could shift, if mom and dad could get their [ __ ] together and see reality on reality's terms, maybe. But then she'd also have to accept it, too. She But but but it's got to start somewhere. And if the only people she's communicating with and trusts outside of prison people >> were able to to come to her from a different direction, from a different place and and change the the conversation, I hate that term, uh up if you will, but change the direction and the lane that they're going in. Maybe something could happen. But how do you change parents who are thinking this way?

[00:16:43]>> Yeah, if they haven't gotten any insight right now um at this point again prognosis very poor and they would probably get very angry at anyone and they're probably angry at all of us right now. I'm sure they are on the airing. Yeah, they're they're mad. Um because how how dare anyone question their parenting? How dare anyone question their narrative, their story about their poor child? And I I don't think there's probably any way to get through with it. I I would be up for having a try, but it would be slowgoing and they would probably be people that would, you know, have one session with a counselor and then storm out because how dare you, you know, even question us.

[00:17:28]>> Why is that with people like that?

[00:17:30]Because it's like clearly the path they're working is not going good. It's it's just straight downhill every everywhere you look. And and you have all these people and I'm and I'm not coming to this like let's I I'm speaking of I'm not trying to insult them. I'm not trying to say they're idiots even though they aren't. But I I'm trying to to go here here's a path to try and and figure out a way to be healthier, to be happier for yourself, for your daughter.

[00:17:58]and and and why is that that that people just continued to dig in on on the path that that is is nothing but chaos when when when all of the evidence points otherwise.

[00:18:11]>> If you got to know each of them and their histories, I think you would it would make sense.

[00:18:18]>> Yeah. Um and they may have some of these personality qualities as well that you know don't manifest in the same way. But um some of this not taking responsibility, not learning from experience, you know, being always in the position of victim. Our child can do no wrong um because it meets their emotional needs to perceive it that way even if it's not true. And so there there are reasons, but it's hard to speculate exactly what those reasons are. Could could be rooted in their own histories, the way they were brought up, maybe.

[00:18:53]>> Tell me what you thought. I mean, when I when I listened to the phone calls between McKenzie and her mother or even the parents talking on that documentary, it felt like we were watching two high school children.

[00:19:02]>> Uh the parents themselves, uh very emotionally immature on on their thought processes.

[00:19:09]>> Very emotionally immature and lacking insight.

[00:19:12]>> Yeah. and not having boundaries and as you say, dad wants to be cool, mom wants to collude with her and be her best friend and and so there's a yeah, a lack of insight and maturity there.

[00:19:26]Definitely.

[00:19:27]>> I like to end on these ones um with uh because I believe I we know a lot of this they have tablets in jail and narcissists like to watch information about themselves. So when McKenzie eventually stumbles upon this one and you know she's sitting there you know you know fuming through it we get to this point from from you know obviously you're always coming from a place of of goodness and and and positivity and and and well good intentions. What would you say to her?

[00:19:58]>> I I would advise her to start writing in prison. A lot of people gain insight and awareness by writing and talk about, you know, address some specific topics about who is she and what does she want the rest of her life to look look like and what kind of growth um and change can create. I I always say that we're all writing a book. Our lives are a book and we're all authors of that book. And at the end of life when we're taking our final breath, what kind of story do we want to look back and read about? What do we want that book to look like? And so I often try to get folks to engage in a writing process where they really start reflecting on their values, their choices, and what is the book of the their life that they're writing. That that would be my advice.

[00:20:49]>> Yeah. And that's a good way of of looking at it. And and and the thing is, >> you know, without being too philosophical, she's so young. She she still has her whole bullet, right?

[00:21:00]>> Yes.

[00:21:00]>> And and it can be a redemption story. It doesn't have to be the victim mental mentality that mom and dad like to feed her.

[00:21:09]>> She has her own story to write and she can write it or she can just go to her death with whatever mom and dad want to tell her she is. But that's up to her.

[00:21:18]And and and she can turn this around.

[00:21:20]She could become an advocate. She could help younger people from falling into this path that she was was put into biologically and physically with her parents and and her upbringing and helping other people see uh a better path and and correct before it gets so out of control. But but that takes some self-realization and reflection. And maybe she's capable, maybe she's not.

[00:21:44]She's the only one that can really answer that question. But there's a challenge to do it.

[00:21:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. create a better story and not just a story where you're the victim. Um, that would be my my feedback. Create a story where you are taking control, not complaining about what other people are doing.

[00:22:01]>> I like that. Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack and YouTube. The links are in the description. Siobhan's latest book, Nightbird, is available wherever you get books. And her other book, The Mind of Mass Killers, also available wherever you get books. And if you call right now, we're going to give you a second Ginsu knife. Absolutely. Okay, that's not part of it, but uh they're available wherever you get books. Go and check it out. All right, until next time. Uh for Siobhan and Todd and Robin, I'm Tony Bruski. We will talk again real soon.

[00:22:30]>> Want more on this case and others? Then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Brussi and the Hidden Killers podcast.